About my Ryde Andra 40 rim...

[jul]

Hi all,

I bought a new pair of Ryde Andra 40 rims, and i found something that worries me.

I would like to know your opinions..

see photos

[Danneaux]

That looks like an unfortunate joint, Julien.

The face of the braking track looks unaffected , but it would be nice to avoid the rough joint where one end of the rim appears to have been munged a bit when sectioned before roll-forming.

The rim will pull together a bit under spoke tension, but it would be nice if it had no issues so it matched your other example and was smooth at the edge.

If it were me, I would ask for an exchange.

Best,

Dan.

[jul]

Hi Dan,

Thanks to gave me your opinion.

I've contacted some professionals today, and they told me the rim is defective.

I've sent a message to the seller in Germany, for an exchange, i'm waiting his response. (his shop is close until the 19 september)


Arff i'm unlucky on this one   

[mickeg]

When you get things sorted out and have a chance to try out the Andra 40 rims, let us know what you think of them. 

Looking at the Ryde site for the Andra 40 rims, it states:
   OPTIMUM TYRE WIDTH (MM)   37-62

That would be perfect for me, I mostly use 50 or 57mm wide tires on my Nomad, but occasionally use tires as narrow as 40mm.  Thus the range of tires I use is centered right in the middle of the recommended Andra 40 range.

I got the Andra 30 rims in part because the Thorn Nomad brochure said it was a great expedition rim, but it really is too narrow for the tire sizes I primarily use.  Since my tour a few months ago, I have been considering changing to different rims.  I probably would not have ordered the Andra 30 rim if I knew that they were that narrow - unfortunately I trusted the sales brochure where it touted it as a great expedition rim for the Nomad.

I am not too enthusiastic about a rim change, the time to put different rims on the hubs would be several hours, and I am sure that a new set of Andra 40 CSS rims shipped to USA would be quite costly too.  But, the Andra 30 rims are just too narrow for my purposes, which frustrates me. 

[jul]

Ok Mickeg.

However, it seems to me the Andra 40 does not exist version css ..

Look this one:

http://www.velocityusa.com/product/rims/cliff-hanger-559

[Dave Whittle Thorn Workshop]

When you get things sorted out and have a chance to try out the Andra 40 rims, let us know what you think of them. 

Looking at the Ryde site for the Andra 40 rims, it states:
   OPTIMUM TYRE WIDTH (MM)   37-62

That would be perfect for me, I mostly use 50 or 57mm wide tires on my Nomad, but occasionally use tires as narrow as 40mm.  Thus the range of tires I use is centered right in the middle of the recommended Andra 40 range.

I got the Andra 30 rims in part because the Thorn Nomad brochure said it was a great expedition rim, but it really is too narrow for the tire sizes I primarily use.  Since my tour a few months ago, I have been considering changing to different rims.  I probably would not have ordered the Andra 30 rim if I knew that they were that narrow - unfortunately I trusted the sales brochure where it touted it as a great expedition rim for the Nomad.

I am not too enthusiastic about a rim change, the time to put different rims on the hubs would be several hours, and I am sure that a new set of Andra 40 CSS rims shipped to USA would be quite costly too.  But, the Andra 30 rims are just too narrow for my purposes, which frustrates me. 

Slightly confused by your post, the Andra 30 is for 25-57 the biggest Tyre we fit is 55, you say the biggest Tyre you fitted was a 57 so your rims are fine for your tyre choices, I doubt a bigger tyre tan 57 would clear in a Nomad.

We looked at the 40 but the floor is wider and slightly thinner, we know from examples of overloaded Grizzly rims that this isn't a good idea.  So for now we still believe the 30 is the best touring rim for a Nomad.

Back to the OP its certainly not the best join, cosmetically not ace but in practice it would probably work just fine so if the seller gave you say 50% discount I would just use it and have it on the front.

Hope this helps, Dave. 

[mickeg]

...
Slightly confused by your post, the Andra 30 is for 25-57 the biggest Tyre we fit is 55, you say the biggest Tyre you fitted was a 57 so your rims are fine for your tyre choices, I doubt a bigger tyre tan 57 would clear in a Nomad.

We looked at the 40 but the floor is wider and slightly thinner, we know from examples of overloaded Grizzly rims that this isn't a good idea.  So for now we still believe the 30 is the best touring rim for a Nomad.
...

I am not sure if you are saying a 57mm tire will fit in the Nomad frame or not.

My Marathon Extremes are labeled 57X559 26X2.25 and they fit fine.  I do not recall if I tried them with fenders, but they fit fine when I used them without fenders.  The first photo is intended not to highlight the tire, but the spoke that I somehow bent is why I took the photo.  But the photo shows the tire quite well.

I originally used cantilever brakes on the rear but switched to V brakes.  Second photo is when I still had cantilever brakes on it with the 57mm Extremes, the tire fit fine in that part of the frame.

Third photo does not highlight the tire in the front fork very well, but all I can say is that it seemed to fit just fine.

The Nomad brochure Issue 20 dated Autumn 2012 is the version that was current when I ordered the frame.  The yellow Nomad photos in the brochure had Extremes on, but the brochure did not specify the size tire in the photo.  That brochure did not list the Extremes as an available tire either.  Just looking at the photo, they look like they are the 2.25 width tire, as I have used 2.0 width Extreme on my Sherpa and the tire in the photo looked smaller than the tire in the Nomad brochure.

My Sherpa, I bought the frame used from someone in Canada, he had bought the wrong size frame, thus was looking to part with his frame.  When I built it up, I expected to run tires in the 40 to 50 mm width range.  I used the Sheldon Brown chart at the bottom of this link to conclude that I should get a rim about 23mm wide but could get by with one that was 21mm inside width:
http://www.sheldonbrown.com/tire-sizing.html

I bought Salsa Gordo rims for my Sherpa, I believe that rim is no longer available.  I do not remember the exact inside width of the rim, but it is in the range I wanted for my desired tire width.  Thus, I was quite surprised when the Andra 30 rims arrived in the box with my Nomad frame and the Andra 30 were visually narrower than the Salsa Gordo rims even though I wanted to use the Andra 30 rims on a wider tire than I had used on the Gordo rims.

The last photo shows my Sherpa with a 50mm wide Extreme on back.

Thus, my point is that the 57mm wide Extreme fits fine in the Nomad frame and fork, and I think that the Extreme in the photos in the brochure are 57mm wide Extremes.

There were a few times when I wanted to run lower pressure for better grip with the 57m Extreme on the Andra 30 rim but the handling was not as good as I wanted, and I blamed that on how narrow  the tire was on the rim. 

Using that same Sheldon Brown chart, that suggests that the Andra 30 rim with an inside width of 19mm would be best used with a tire that is 28 to 44mm wide. 

And that same chart suggests that a 25mm wide inner width rim would be best for 44 to 57mm tires, thus that rim might be a bit too narrow if I run 40mm wide tires, but otherwise looks like it would be ideal.  And I am assuming that the 40mm wide tires would probably work ok.  Thus my interest in the Andra 40 with the inner width of 25mm. 

Yes I am now aware that Ryde says that the Andra 30 is good for a tire up to 57mm, but that is not my experience if I want to drop the pressure.  At higher pressures they are fine, but I can't drop the pressure for better grip on loose gravel, such as the loose gravel in the third photo.

That is why I am considering changing rims.  I like the CSS rims, if it was not for the CSS and the abilty to get custom Rohloff drilling, I probably would be looking at rims that are more common in USA.  I am running 36 spoke wheels front and rear which the Ryde website says are available.

[jul]

[quote

We looked at the 40 but the floor is wider and slightly thinner, we know from examples of overloaded Grizzly rims that this isn't a good idea.  So for now we still believe the 30 is the best touring rim for a Nomad.

Back to the OP its certainly not the best join, cosmetically not ace but in practice it would probably work just fine so if the seller gave you say 50% discount I would just use it and have it on the front.

Hope this helps, Dave.
[/quote]

I'll prefer an exchange..  some professionals tell me like you, other, the rim is defective (garbage can)

But thanks for your advise Dave.

Mickeg, do you know if there is a big difference between a tire in 2" and 2.15 ?

I think which one to choose between these two sizes.
I'm planning to ride on rought roads with Marathon mondial tires, but it is never for a long ride, so i would like a good compromise.

As well, my fenders are SKS P55
Do you think i keep my fenders with a Marathon mondial 2" ? (i see your fenders but i don't know which model'size it is)

[mickeg]

....
Mickeg, do you know if there is a big difference between a tire in 2" and 2.15 ?

I think which one to choose between these two sizes.
I'm planning to ride on rought roads with Marathon mondial tires, but it is never for a long ride, so i would like a good compromise.
...

I have never used a Mondial.  Within the Schwalbe family, only have used the plain Marathon (with Greengard) for pavement (tarmac) in 40 mm width, the Dureme at 50mm width and the Extreme in both 50 and 57 mm widths.

2 inch and 2.15 are pretty close to the same.  Looking at the chart they are only 5mm different.
http://www.schwalbetires.com/bike_tires/road_tires/marathon_mondial

From that chart it looks like the bigger difference is in folding vs wire bead, more than just the bead is different, the tires are constructed differently.

That said, I do not recall which bike you have.  My Sherpa with a tire larger than 50 mm did not look like it had as much clearance as I wanted between the tire and fender, thus I only use 50 mm or narrower tires on that bike.  If you wanted to run 55 mm tires in fenders on a Sherpa, that might be too tight.  Nomad has more clearance and a 55mm tire would fit better in that bike than in the Sherpa.

....

As well, my fenders are SKS P55
Do you think i keep my fenders with a Marathon mondial 2" ? (i see your fenders but i don't know which model'size it is)

I never used SKS fenders.

My fenders on my Nomad were an on-sale version of some Bontreger fenders, I do not recall what the model is.  I just measured the fenders at 65 mm wide.  Right now I have 57mm (rated width) Hutchinson Cobra tires that caliper at 55 mm width on the bike.  Around home, about two thirds of my miles are on gravel, thus am using the Hutchinson tires that are more of a mountain bike tire than the Extreme which I think is a good touring tire for mixed gravel and bad quality pavement (tarmac).

My Sherpa has a 60mm wide fender (I just calipered it at that width) but I do not recall brand and model of the fender.  It might be Planet Bike?  I bought that frame used and the seller bundled the fenders with the frame as a package deal. 

On the Nomad the 55 mm wide (measured width) tires in 65 mm wide fenders and on the Sherpa the 60 mm wide fender with 50 mm rated width tires have worked ok.  When I hit a bump, I occasionally hear the stays bouncing off the sidewall or rubbing on some of the knobs on the tires.  I occasionally have to bend the stays a bit to keep the tires centered in the fenders.  But I would not want anything tighter, so I think a 10 mm difference between tire width and fender width would be a good minimum, less than 10 and there could be too much rubbing.

On another bike I ran 37mm wide tires inside 45 mm fenders.  That seemed to work too, but it had more rubbing with only an 8 mm difference.  On that bike I always used a non-knobby tire with a road tread, so when the stays rubbed on the tire it was less of a problem.

Because the Extremes and Cobra tires are somewhat knobby tires that can pick up twigs, etc, I try to run a lot of clearance between the fender and the tires in the rear and I try to maximize my clearance between the fender at the fork crown and tire.  I really do not want to pick up a twig in the tire tread and have it jam between the tire and fender at the fork crown, thus I strive for a lot of clearance.

Because I try to have a lot of clearance between fender and tire, the fender stay brackets may be pushed a bit further away from the tire tread than typical.  The brackets can be a clearance issue, as that is where rubbing is likely to occur.

I can't really think of anything else to say regarding tires and fenders.  Hope this helps.

[jul]

Ok Mickeg,

10 mm difference between tire width and fender width

Thanks
 

[jul]

So finally the seller send me a new rim and i can keep the defective rim.

He told me the rim is not nice but there is no risk as regards the stability..

In award i'm reassured !

[Danneaux]

Yay, Julien!

A nice and happy outcome and now you won't have worries or concerns.

Thanks for the followup report!

Best,

Dan.

[davefife]

Andra 40 I only build for electric bikes, its overkill, heavier and wider, stick with the 30's or the eyeletted sputnik rim.
D

[jul]

I've chosen Andra 40 rim because it's designed for large Hub (directed drilling), for wide tires (equal or up to 2"), and really strong and suitable for what i want to do..

The Andra 30 rim is too narrow for larges tires, so the flanges tires wears more quickly ..

[davefife]

Good luck to you with the wheel build Julio! many miles on your wheels I hope