Author Topic: Threaded hole in bottom bracket?  (Read 10410 times)

Jonathan Hanson

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Threaded hole in bottom bracket?
« on: December 16, 2015, 12:56:02 am »
Everyone,

As I was installing an SKF bottom bracket on my (English-built) Thorn Nomad, I noticed for the first time an open, threaded hole in the bottom of the bottom bracket shell. Is this supposed to be plugged, and if so does anyone happen to know the proper size bolt?

Thanks . . .

JimK

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Re: Threaded hole in bottom bracket?
« Reply #1 on: December 16, 2015, 01:19:47 am »
My Nomad has an eccentric insert like this: http://www.sjscycles.co.uk/eccentric-bottom-bracket-insert-fits-raven-mk2-sport-tour-etc-732mm-for-external-bearing-bottom-bracket-gold-prod16620/?geoc=us

The SKF business fits into the insert, then the insert goes into the frame. When you say the "shell", you're referring to the part of the frame where the insert fits, yes?

My frame has two threaded holes on the bottom, into which are fitted: http://www.sjscycles.co.uk/thorn-m8-extra-fine-cone-pointed-screw-for-eccentric-bottom-bracket-shell-prod12630/?geoc=us

which then clamp the eccentric insert.

Probably I am totally missing your question...

JimK

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Re: Threaded hole in bottom bracket?
« Reply #2 on: December 16, 2015, 01:20:36 am »
ah, you probably have an derailleur Nomad, from long before my time!

leftpoole

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Re: Threaded hole in bottom bracket?
« Reply #3 on: December 16, 2015, 10:59:08 am »
It is a water drain hole, simply one of those Thorn 'extras' not found on other manufacturers cycles.
Regards,
John

in4

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Re: Threaded hole in bottom bracket?
« Reply #4 on: December 16, 2015, 03:37:22 pm »
Like this one perhaps.
PS its  cleaner now!
« Last Edit: December 16, 2015, 09:02:18 pm by in4 »

Jonathan Hanson

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Re: Threaded hole in bottom bracket?
« Reply #5 on: December 16, 2015, 08:22:15 pm »
Thanks for the responses. Yes, I'm sure it is a drain hole; I just wonder if normally it should be plugged to keep grit from migrating into it, as in4's is. I just need to find out what size and thread.

mickeg

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Re: Threaded hole in bottom bracket?
« Reply #6 on: December 16, 2015, 10:50:12 pm »
I am building up a new bike right now.  Bottom bracket not yet in.  I wonder if I should drilll a tiny little drain hole?

Danneaux

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Re: Threaded hole in bottom bracket?
« Reply #7 on: December 17, 2015, 12:27:28 am »
Quote
I wonder if I should drilll a tiny little drain hole?
Hi mickeg!

Based on old road bikes that had perforated BB shells (ostensibly to reduce weight, rather than condensation), it used to be considered a Very Good Idea to make sure the (then loose-ball bearing) bottom brackets were shielded by a plastic sleeve to ensure the fenderless (without mudguard) front tire did not kick water into the works.

If I were to drill the BB shell, I would also tap it for a bolt to prevent moisture from being kicked into the shell from below while riding, then remove the bolt periodically to allow moisture to drain and condensation to dissipate. I have done this. An o-ring beneath the head keeps it snug and a snap-on socket screw thumb screw cap allows installation and removal without tools. McMaster-Carr usually has them, and sometimes Fastenal or Grainger for US customers. A custom Google search will locate them here:
https://www.google.com/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=socket+screw+thumb+screw+cap

In the early 1980s, a small brass valve was available for retrofit to BB shells. You simply pressed it with your finger and any accumulated moisture would drain, then the valve would reseal after you let go of it.

In 1989, I also drilled and tapped a cyclocross-riding friend's BB for a small valve of the type used to release water from air lines and fuel sumps. It worked well.

Of course, these comments apply to non-eccentric BB shells, like the one on your new bike, mickeg. Post-1985 derailleur bikes often have a small bolt with tapped threads holding the cable guides in place beneath the BB shell. This can usually be removed for drainage and then replaced, as the cable tension holds the guide in place while the bolt is out. I've line-bored such bolts through the socket (usually they're 5mm x 0.8mm but occasionally are 6mm x 1.0) to use as a wire channel for lighting.

All the best,

Dan.

Danneaux

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Re: Threaded hole in bottom bracket?
« Reply #8 on: December 17, 2015, 12:57:21 am »
Yes!

The bottom bracket drain valve still exists, made by ActionTec, the same company I remembered:
http://www.actiontec.us/attack.htm
More about them here: http://www.bikepro.com/products/bottom_brackets/bbaccess.shtml
USD$7.60 each

I have no interest in the company.

Best,

Dan.

mickeg

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Re: Threaded hole in bottom bracket?
« Reply #9 on: December 17, 2015, 05:18:01 pm »
Thanks Dan, I think I will just rely on the bolt that holds the cable guide in.

If I recall correctly, I did drill a small hole in my Bridgestone but I store that bike outside so it probably is a pretty good idea on that bike.  See attached.

Several years ago I tried to drill a tiny hole (maybe 5/64 inch or something like that) in the bolt that held the cable guide in for drainage, but the drill bit broke which of course meant that I could no longer use a screwdriver in that bolt.  That soured me on that whole line of thinking.

Since I have frame savered most of my frames, I am not too concerned.  I did not apply that to my Sherpa, but the previous owner told me that he did.

Someone at Thorn or SJS put a piece of tape inside the head tube to keep any water that got into that tube from going into my downtube or top tube on my S&S Nomad.  I thought that was rather brilliant, so I did that on my new build.  On the S&S Nomad, any water that gets into the downtube from that route would likely just accumulate there for a very long time, so that tape made a lot of sense on that bike.
« Last Edit: December 17, 2015, 05:40:42 pm by mickeg »

Jonathan Hanson

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Re: Threaded hole in bottom bracket?
« Reply #10 on: December 17, 2015, 05:19:51 pm »
Okay, so can anyone tell me if the threaded hole drilled in the bottom bracket shell by Thorn is likely to be metric or SAE/British? That would help me find the proper bolt with which to plug it. Thanks!

mickeg

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Re: Threaded hole in bottom bracket?
« Reply #11 on: December 17, 2015, 05:37:31 pm »
I can't say with certainty, but I would start with metric.

Danneaux

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Re: Threaded hole in bottom bracket?
« Reply #12 on: December 17, 2015, 06:02:42 pm »
Hi Jonathan!

I'll give it my best shot. Trolling through the archived Thorn brochures ( http://thorncyclesforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=6975.0 ), I see the Wayback Machine cannot at this time pull up the brochure for your model Nomad. However, it can access the 21March2006 brochure for the eXp:
( http://web.archive.org/web/20060321060820/http://www.sjscycles.com/thornwebsite/thornpdf/ThorneXpBroHiRes.pdf )

Page 1 shows a photo and lists an M8 x 0.75mm drain plug. I'd try that size first. Page 2 shows the same drain hole without paint.

If you don't have a thread gauge or calipers handy, you can try a rough "sizing" by removing a bolt from someplace else on the bike and gently seeing if it is even large enough to engage the threads. I don't think it is M5 x 0.8, and the hex head looks too small for M6x1.0, both standard sizes on bicycles. If the hold easily passes an M6 x 1.0 bolt without the threads engaging and about 1mm clearance on all sides, then I think you could feel confident it is likely the M8 x 0.75 Thorn mentions in the eXp brochure.

Hope this helps.

Best,

Dan.
« Last Edit: December 17, 2015, 07:02:48 pm by Danneaux »

Jonathan Hanson

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Re: Threaded hole in bottom bracket?
« Reply #13 on: December 17, 2015, 06:15:35 pm »
That does - thanks very much!

Danneaux

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Re: Threaded hole in bottom bracket?
« Reply #14 on: December 17, 2015, 07:12:52 pm »
A last note, Jonathon:

The M8 x 0.75 bolts are the same size diameter and thread pitch Thorn uses to secure the eccentrics on their Rohloff-equipped bikes. If you have no luck finding the drain bolt elsewhere (and if it is indeed M8 x 0.75mm), then SJS Cycles offers the ones intended for eccentrics here at only £2.99 each:
http://www.sjscycles.co.uk/thorn-m8-extra-fine-cone-pointed-screw-for-eccentric-bottom-bracket-shell-prod12630/?geoc=us

You would likely need to shorten it, but that could be done with a hacksaw and file or grinder.

Try the smaller bolts first to confirm before ordering. Dave Whittle of Thorn's Workshop would be the last word on this, but with the holidays nigh, it is likely some members of staff may be away on other pursuits.

Best,

Dan.