Audax Wheels

[ZeroBike]

Would you guys have just one set of wheels for an audax bike or would you go for more i.e. a heavy set and a light set?

[Danneaux]

Hi Zero!

A couple of data points offered in hopes they will help as a reference...

My two favorite steel-framed randonneur/Audax/touring bikes are basically standard 700C-wheeled road touring bikes. The ride characteristics of one is about 3/4 Thorn Club Tour, 1/4 Thorn Audax, full Club Tour on the other by my estimation. Both have front and rear pannier racks with pump, three bottles, mudguards, dyno lighting, and small underseat tool bag including a small multitool, patch kits and a spare tube. They weigh about 32lb/14.5kg each, dry. I weigh 172lb/78kg.

Each bike has just one set of wheels for all purposes. I built them myself. They have proven reliable and trouble-free for 28,000+ and 32,000+ miles/45,000-51,400km respectively, whether on 300-400km day rides or carrying a maximum of 56lbs/25kg on gravel and reasonably rough roads.

Except for a difference in OLN spacing between the two bikes, I used:
• 36 hole Mavic MA-2 rims (polished). 20.5mm outside width. See: http://www.bikepro.com/products/rims/mavicroad.shtml
• 36 hole DT 1.8mm/15g unbutted spokes with either DT or Wheelsmith plated brass nipples
• Laced 3x
• Phil Wood hubs (freewheel rear). I have another front wheel like this with a SON28 New dynohub instead of the Phil hub.

One bike uses Panaracer Paselas, 700x37mm (34mm actual width when mounted on the MA-2s and inflated to pressure). Baseline pressures without cargo and dry are F/R 3.2/4.0bar or 47/58psi.

The other bike uses Bontrager Select K road slicks, 700x32mm (33 actual width when mounted on the MA-2s and inflated to pressure). Baseline pressures without cargo and dry are F/R 3.5/4.3bar or 51/63psi.

Pressures are adjusted upward for water and cargo carried.

These wheels are not heavy, but they are not light; I'd call them a good midweight solution built with older components some time ago. They stay true and round and I've not broken a single spoke.

In answer to your question, I'd suggest going with a "medium" set for maximum versatility and a good balance between light weight and strength with durability being paramount.

Best,

Dan.

[Audax hopeful]

Hi Zero -

My mileages and experience could never come near to Danneaux's but my personnel solution is two bikes - one for full touring (four panniers), t'other for lighter and faster Audax duties (rear rack and saddlebag). This allows lighter wheels on the audax bike, though I still am not using race spec wheels or tyres. My compromise is 32 hole campag hubs with mavic open pro rims and continental top-contact (first series) 28mm for winter, vittoria rubina pro 28mm for summer. Tyre choice really changes the feel of the bike (150g difference in tyre weight!), but the wheels have proved themselves over many miles - especially as I've used the same spec on considerably more race oriented machines as well! (And I have a matching spare front wheel with dynamo hub too)

[Danneaux]

Real nice setups you have, Nich, and the two bikes are a great way to go, ensuring each is optimized for its intended task. I like your Audax wheels. You just can't argue with success like yours over time and across seasons.

One difference I notice between our Audax/randonneur setups (pointing this out for ZeroBike) is in our tire widths and spoke count.

In my use (others' will vary, of course) I've found I can get away with lighter wheels for touring if I build them with high even spoke tension and cushion them from road hazards by using tires with large air volume (which adds weight at the outside where it is most noticeable, but also allows lower pressures for greater comfort during long days in the saddle even unladen; my rando riding is pretty much steady-state with little change in acceleration -- I just cruise, more like in a really long time trial).

For shorter but still long rides on roads I know will be really smooth, I sometimes switch from the 33-34mm wide tires to light road slicks that measure a true 28mm when mounted. This saves weight (both overall and rotating) and aids acceleration if I'm in hilly country where my speed varies more, but the ride is made harsher and my hands are subject to more vibration and road shock and I can feel it more in my body afterward.

Tire width changes the feel of my bike also, but in some less obvious ways. Going to narrower, lower volume tires requires an increase in air pressure, adding harshness. Narrower tires are also lower in profile so trail is reduced a bit (for more on how trail affects feel and handling, see: http://www.thorncycles.co.uk/forums/index.php?topic=4245.0 Absolute changes in handling will depend on the geometry of the individual bicycle). Mostly, I just ride the fatter tires and tell myself I'm getting a free training regimen in the bargain, something that must surely be good for me!

My wheels are pretty vanilla and are remarkable more for what they lack -- butted spokes. I went with plain gauge to save a bit of weight and then more than made up the difference by increasing spoke count; 36 vs 32). I find wheels with higher spoke counts tend to stay truer longer. The 1.8mm/15g size has worked well with the double-ferruled, non-aero Mavic MA-2 rims. I've not yet had any spoke breakages in the wheels I've made, so -- knock on wood -- it doesn't seem I would have benefited from butted spokes in this application, though I have preferred them for other uses. At the time I built these, they were a bit of an experiment that worked out pretty well in retrospect.

I'm pleased Zero started this topic. I love wheels and seeing how various designs and components work in particular applications. Thinking about such things keeps me entertained on long rides. I hope we'll hear from others about their Audax wheel choices.

Best,

Dan.

[martinf]

I don't do Audax, but I do have a bike set up for light day rides. This is my first "proper" touring bike, bought new in 1977. It has a Reynolds 531 frame and forks, originally built for 27" wheels and now modified for 700C.

I have 28 spoke wheels on this bike. The rear has a Sachs New Success sealed bearing freewheel hub on which I use a Sachs Aris narrow 6-sprocket freewheel, spaced 120 mm. Front hub is a SON dynohub, the version meant for 16"-20" wheels, but it gives enough power to light the Edelux front lamp and B&M Secula rear lamp. Front and rear rims are Mavic Open Pro, which were easily available at my local bike shop. I built the wheels myself, making sure the spokes were done up to a fairly high tension.

I use 28 mm tyres as I prefer the extra comfort compared to narrower, and I think the wider section also cushions the rather light rims. I'm currently finishing some old but light Michelin tyres, but I have a pair of new Schwalbe One 28 mm tyres ready to fit for this summer.

And latex inner tubes, again for extra comfort (though this might just be my imagination).

I only ride this bike on good roads, with minimal use on tracks and paths, generally for day rides with minimum luggage, and generally only in good weather (I dislike cleaning deraileurs).

No racks are fitted, I have a Carradice saddlebag, and very occasionally I add a handlebar bag.

The 28 spoke wheels have held up well so far, despite my weight (around 80 Kg).

[ZeroBike]

Thanks guys, Im liking the medium weight idea because it would allow me to go with a dynamo hub which Im also toying with the idea of.

I couldn't really justify the cost of 2 sets plus dynamo hubs so would have gone the battery route.

[Audax hopeful]

I'm lucky I guess but I've never broke a spoke (barring accident) and only once broke a chain. I ride on paved surfaces - though when I mountain biked I had no issues either. I'm fussy with maintenance and compared to people like Danneaux my mileages (single and cumulative) are nothing to write home about, but I feel a well built 32 spoke wheel is pretty tough. My 'audax' bike is a Thorn Audax so 28mm is max tyre cross-section with mud guards (which nowadays I always use), and this has been fine for B&B touring too (in my racing days 32 spokes and 19mm tubs was fine for youth hostelling, but I was lighter then!). My touring bike has 36 spoke wheels and 37mm tyres - a sensible choice for heavier loads and cycle camping - but even here my experience is that rotating weight is possibly the most significant factor in hilly terrain, and I feel light weight tyres (provided they are tough enough for the job) really do improve feel and reduce energy expenditure. A large air space is more cushioning and rolls nicely (play around with tyre pressures to maximise this) but excess tyre weight kills feel and responsiveness.

To this end I got quite anal about finding tyres! (Tried to add my tyre choice tables from notebook here but failed miserably!)

The most important part of a wheel? The builder!! Most modern mid range branded hubs are excellent (specialists like Hope and Chris King very nice but not necessary), for an audax type bike rims by Mavic or perhaps DT Swiss or similar, butted spokes (my preference, 14g I think) all promise strength and longevity, but the wheel builder is the key! My local bike shop does a good job, but there are some recognised specialists too. Some say disc brakes can significantly increase wheel life (no rim wear) but I've never gone down that route. The idea appeals for a laden tourer but seems to me might add rotating weight and reduce feel on a lighter bike?

I'll stop rambling on now!!

[Pavel]

I wonder if there is much merit, or perhaps problems instead, to having two different rims.  A medium strong one for the back and a lighter weight rim up front to save some weight and add a drop of speed.  Any ideas?