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Rohloff Internal Hub Gears / Re: Rohloff wears out
« Last post by mickeg on Today at 02:13:07 AM »
That's a PANIC-NOW size ding in the spoke, George. Seems to me that the ease with which you fixed it apparently permanently demonstrates a) that the hours you spent building your own wheels (and not forgetting your early experience in a bike shop) and b) whatever cash sum you spent having the bike shop check the spoke tension on the original build -- were well spent.

I did look into the Park spoke tension meter once, with the intention of building a set of wheels from scratch just to see how it is done. The meter was about $75 at the discounters; that one worked like a swing-arm bar torque wrench; there was also a dial gauge tensiometer available but it was several hundred dollars, a bit stiff for a tool I would use only once. But I decided against buying a tensiometer for a few reasons, including that I already had another pair of superb wheels (Bontrager prototypes built by the boss), and with only a spoke wrench in hand I had retensioned and trued the badly-built factory wheels on my Gazelle Toulouse over a period of several weeks by simply patiently making tiny adjustments on only one spoke per day in the scheduled break on my daily rides until the wheels rode right and sounded evenly tensioned by the spoke-pinging method.

A friend of mine volunteers time as a mechanic at a bicycle charity.  And I have donated stuff to the charity too.  So, he checked the tension at no cost for me.

One spoke a day is pretty slow.  I will often adjust two or three or four spokes at one time, but once the wheel is pretty good I might only make one eighth of a nipple adjustment (45 degrees) at a time when I am getting almost done.

I carry a spoke wrench on bike tours.  My Iceland trip was the first trip I did where I disassembled the bike and packed it in the S&S backpack case.  When I reassembled it, both wheels needed a bit of a tweak to get them straight again.

I also carry spokes on a bike tour, so if I needed to replace a few, I had what I needed.
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Rohloff Internal Hub Gears / Re: Rohloff wears out
« Last post by Andre Jute on Today at 01:45:53 AM »
That's a PANIC-NOW size ding in the spoke, George. Seems to me that the ease with which you fixed it apparently permanently demonstrates a) that the hours you spent building your own wheels (and not forgetting your early experience in a bike shop) and b) whatever cash sum you spent having the bike shop check the spoke tension on the original build -- were well spent.

I did look into the Park spoke tension meter once, with the intention of building a set of wheels from scratch just to see how it is done. The meter was about $75 at the discounters; that one worked like a swing-arm bar torque wrench; there was also a dial gauge tensiometer available but it was several hundred dollars, a bit stiff for a tool I would use only once. But I decided against buying a tensiometer for a few reasons, including that I already had another pair of superb wheels (Bontrager prototypes built by the boss), and with only a spoke wrench in hand I had retensioned and trued the badly-built factory wheels on my Gazelle Toulouse over a period of several weeks by simply patiently making tiny adjustments on only one spoke per day in the scheduled break on my daily rides until the wheels rode right and sounded evenly tensioned by the spoke-pinging method.
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Bikes For Sale / Ebay: Thorn Touring Bike
« Last post by macspud on Today at 12:54:58 AM »
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Rohloff Internal Hub Gears / Re: Rohloff wears out
« Last post by mickeg on November 19, 2018, 06:30:46 PM »
...
The same logic also makes me wonder how much the quality of the wheel build influences the longevity of the flanges.

I am sure some of it does.  If some spokes are too tight, ... they are too tight.

Bike shops own spoke tension gauges, no home mechanic owns one.  I am of the home mechanic variety, but I did take the wheel to a shop to have the spoke tension checked and I then made a few adjustments at the shop as I did not have them tight enough.

I used straight gauge spokes because I was unable to source the length I needed in a butted spoke.  I usually use a 2.0/1.7/2.0 spoke (Wheelsmith DB14) but could not find anyone selling the length I needed so I bought 2.0 straight gauge.  The straight gauge offer slightly less shock absorption, so in that regard mine are slightly less desirable.

I can see why after 10 years you would not want to have the wheel rebuilt, but in my case it would be easy enough for me to undo the nipples on half the spokes so I could slip the rings on while the other half of the spokes stay on the wheel.  And if I did one flange at a time, it should be pretty easy to keep the wheel well trued.  My time is free and I have the skill to do the work.

If I order something from Europe where adding the rings does not increase the shipping cost, I might consider it.  But shipping costs for a few small items from Europe to USA can be considerable.

When I was in Iceland I was on a very cobbley road and the front wheel threw a rock into the back wheel and it apparently jammed in between the frame and a spoke, put a big ding in the spoke.  I thought nothing of it at the time, I felt a jerk and heard something that was not right from the impact.  I did not stop to inspect it, the bike kept rolling fine.  As the day progressed, I started having a bit of brake rub in one spot, but kept riding to the campground.  It was a very long day so I decided to take the the next day off.  The next day, I looked at the wheel to get rid of the brake rub and that was when I found that one spoke was loose with a big dent in it.  Initially I thought about it for a few minutes, I was thinking that the spoke nipple threads had probably been stripped.  I really did not want to take the time to pull off the rim tape, install a new spoke, etc.  So, I tried to just tighten up the nipple and in a few minutes the wheel was perfect again.  I have no idea how I got so lucky that I did not have to replace the spoke or nipple, but the wheel trued up fine.  Since I got home I have seen no reason to replace the spoke either, it is still on the wheel.

In the photo you can see the bent spoke before I trued up the wheel, the hub is behind the spoke so it is easy to see the bend.  This is when I should have had the shell crack, but it did not.  That was over two years ago, so maybe I do not have a reason to worry?  But I would really hate to have the shell crack later, so that is why I would consider adding the rings if they were provided.
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Transmission / Re: New chain problem...
« Last post by John Saxby on November 19, 2018, 04:55:39 PM »
That sounds good, Julio -- c'est ŕ dire, not much sound at all!  :)
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Transmission / Re: New chain problem...
« Last post by julio on November 19, 2018, 03:23:55 PM »
My crazy noise transmission has almost disapeared after to have ride 200-300 kms, only when i climb i can still hear it a little..
I think it's because my chainring is in stainless steel, that it was long to wait the noise disappears.

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Bikes For Sale / Re: FOR SALE: Thorn Exp 560S: restored, excellent condition
« Last post by Skülly on November 19, 2018, 10:05:27 AM »
Happy to report I picked this up. Cheers Andrew.

Paint is over the old paint, including thorn & exp vinyl decals <facepalm>

Otherwise I’m pretty chuffed with it. Going to use it for rough riding camping adventures.
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Rohloff Internal Hub Gears / Re: Rohloff wears out
« Last post by Andre Jute on November 19, 2018, 12:55:07 AM »
Even though I built up my own wheels and therefore could spend several hours removing spokes to install the rings, since I have had 5 trouble free years so far I am not inclined to buy the rings.  Considering that Rohloff now considers the rings to be an integral part of the hub, I think they should send out a free set of rings to owners of older hubs upon request.  If they sent me a set of rings for free, I would take the time to install them.

Even for free strengthening rings I'm not rebuilding my fabulous Utopia-built wheels (more specifically not having it done, because I have no hope of matching such finely tensioned computer-built wheels); the wheels, built to carry 170kg of gear over and above the weight of the bike, are too good to mess with. My Rolloff is over ten years old, is bright ali on which a crack will instantly be seen, and shows zero sign of flange-stress though it often carries heavy shopping and painting gear (though less than a really loaded tourer, I think -- long-distance water really weighs). Seems to me that George's and my Rolloffs are proven survivors.

The same logic also makes me wonder how much the quality of the wheel build influences the longevity of the flanges.
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Bikes For Sale / Re: THORN NOMAD MK2 EXPEDITION BIKE
« Last post by tressell69 on November 18, 2018, 06:56:44 PM »
Thanks David for your assistance

Best Regards
Raymond
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Rohloff Internal Hub Gears / Re: Rohloff wears out
« Last post by mickeg on November 18, 2018, 04:46:59 PM »
If I was aware of the strengthening bands you can put around the shell flanges when i bought my Rohloff, I would have bought them.  After all, I was buying the hub to put on a Nomad, a heavy duty bike to carry a load.  And that is why I bought a 36 spoke instead of a 32 spoke hub, for the extra strength to carry a load.  But I was unaware of the rings.  Or, they might not have yet been available when I bought my hub in spring 2013? 
https://www.rohloff.de/en/company/news/news/flange-support-rings/

Until I read the above, I was unaware that the rings were now standard equipment and included when you buy a new hub.  I thought that they were only recommended for tandems and other heavy duty uses.

It makes me a bit more nervous about my hub now that Rohloff has recognized that the flanges were weak enough that they now state that older hubs should be retrofitted when wheels are rebuilt.

Even though I built up my own wheels and therefore could spend several hours removing spokes to install the rings, since I have had 5 trouble free years so far I am not inclined to buy the rings.  Considering that Rohloff now considers the rings to be an integral part of the hub, I think they should send out a free set of rings to owners of older hubs upon request.  If they sent me a set of rings for free, I would take the time to install them.
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