Thorn Cycles Forum
Technical => Transmission => Topic started by: stuartieboy on September 24, 2014, 09:46:54 pm
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Some technical advice required please. I've been riding a Raven for the past 18 months for touring purposes but I'm thinking of a faster bike, like the Audax. However, I've never used STI levers and wondered if bar end shifters would be better for me. So over to you guys : what are the advantages of bar end shifters (apart from £50 cheaper) over STI shifters?
Thanks, Stuartieboy.
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"Touring purposes" is the key.
Bar end shifters are more robust, and simpler to maintain and repair whilst on tour. They will still work even if the lever is damaged.
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Sam is spot on with that comment i use dura ace 9 speed barends on my audax they work great.
but give me sti any day of the week.the dura ace or ultegra are fantastic and they work perfect.
one click and your there effordless.
jags.
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Thanks guys. Just to be clear, I'm thinking about the Audax for everyday use rather than for touring.
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I'd agree with Anto then. and spend the extra to go STI. Bar ends are a bit painful around town. I've got them on my Trek 520, but I've gotten so used to my Nomad (not having to move my hands to shift) that I really notice the inconvenience when I switch bikes.
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It is personal preference, only you can decide. If you can borrow a bike with STI shifters, you should try them.
I prefer bar ends, but I bought my first set of bar end shifters in the 1970s or 80s, so I really am a bit set in my ways. I bought a used set of STI type shifters (Campy) and tried them on my foldup bike, went back to bar ends. But I have known people to buy a bike with bar ends and change the shifters (at a high cost) to STI.
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The other consideration is what group set will work with the STI levers. Shimano has recently changed the compatibility of their group sets and so, for example, Ultegra levers will not work with XT mech/chain set. I have recently upgraded the group set on my Surly LHT (the original one had seen much better days) and I had to stick with the Dura ace bar end shifters to work with the XT components as I couldn't find a suitable STI lever.
Having said that, I quite like bar end shifters and so was quite happy to remain with them.
Fraser
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Some technical advice required please. I've been riding a Raven for the past 18 months for touring purposes but I'm thinking of a faster bike, like the Audax. However, I've never used STI levers and wondered if bar end shifters would be better for me. So over to you guys : what are the advantages of bar end shifters (apart from £50 cheaper) over STI shifters?
Thanks, Stuartieboy.
Hello
I have bar end shifters on my Thorn Club Tour and my Audax bike!
I have Sti on my Condor.
I have used Sti on the Audax and have them on the bars hanging on my workshop wall.
Why you may ask? Answer, I personally love bar end shifters but realise that Sti are much easier and much faster in use.
Horses for courses I think?
John
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I'm sure I'll be forgiven for speaking from a point of relative ignorance but would not the desire/need for a bar bag of a certain size influence the decsion whether or not to put bar end or sti shifters on a tourer - perhaps on an audax too?
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I'm sure I'll be forgiven for speaking from a point of relative ignorance but would not the desire/need for a bar bag of a certain size influence the decsion whether or not to put bar end or sti shifters on a tourer - perhaps on an audax too?
Yes! Of course some may wish to use a Barbag and the Sti cables sometimes are a nuisance.
But not always.!
John
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I also use both. Bar ends on my Club Tour and STi on my Audax (not Thorn).
They both work!
However for faster riding I much prefer STi. It does depend on your choice of components as mentioned before and for that I would discuss with Thorn if ordering from them.
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I also use both. Bar ends on my Club Tour and STi on my Audax (not Thorn).
They both work!
However for faster riding I much prefer STi. It does depend on your choice of components as mentioned before and for that I would discuss with Thorn if ordering from them.
Hello
I second that!
John
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I've got Campag STI on my Audax, and Shimano STI on my tourer. Both have had barbags fitted with no problems. Careful selection and positioning was necessary with 9 speed Shimano which has external gear change cables.
I personally much prefer STI shifters - no need to take my hands off brake levers to change gear means I feel much more in control, and both systems work flawlessly. Indeed my only reservation about Rohloff (if I could afford my dream bike a Thorn Mercury!!) would be sacrificing this functionality!!
Compatibility between touring/mtb derailleurs, brake types and STI shifters to achieve desired gear ranges etc is a bit of a minefield, but Thorn seem to be experts in this area and will give excellent guidance in component selection.
If you can try out STI this would be a good idea. It's quite intuitive in use and I think you'll like it!!
I would not use any STI system for extended touring outside of Europe or North America though!! Availability of parts and expertise should things go wrong would be a major concern. There again I wouldn't use 700c wheels for similar reasons!!
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The other consideration is what group set will work with the STI levers. Shimano has recently changed the compatibility of their group sets and so, for example, Ultegra levers will not work with XT mech/chain set. I have recently upgraded the group set on my Surly LHT (the original one had seen much better days) and I had to stick with the Dura ace bar end shifters to work with the XT components as I couldn't find a suitable STI lever.
Having said that, I quite like bar end shifters and so was quite happy to remain with them.
Fraser
tiagra 9 speed will work fine, i used them on my sherpa perfect no problems and the groupset was shimano XT m770.i fitted on line adjuster barrells on cables near the leaver never had to use them,theres no barrell adjuster on xt rear meck.btw i didnt know that about new ultegra pity.
anto.
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I'm sure I'll be forgiven for speaking from a point of relative ignorance but would not the desire/need for a bar bag of a certain size influence the decsion whether or not to put bar end or sti shifters on a tourer - perhaps on an audax too?
I have 105 STI shifters on my Genesis Equilibrium and the cables go along the bars under the tape, no hindrance to a bar bag whatsoever.
I used bar end shifters for years and was very happy with them. For general road riding I prefer Ergo/STI, however I agree with Sammy ... bar ends for touring ... horses for courses again.
Jim
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i've used sti in the past but tbh didn't like them, i prefer bar end shifters but i have them set up on bar extensions
i reckon they are much nicer in use,
if you position them where it is most comfortable for you then i reckon they are quicker shifting than sti,
sti need multiple shifts to get from one end of the cassette to the other where as barcons can dump the entire cassette in one smooth shift, on top of that should the rear mech go out of synch you can flip them into friction
had i have set the barcons up lately i would of used a nitto lamp holder 2 (1st pic),
btw if your using barcons then i'd try a decent rapid rise mech otherwise the shifters work in opposite directions ::)
A quick google brought up these alternate mounts for barcons
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i like the last photo will have to study that. ;)
anto
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Thanks for all the comments so far, plenty for me to think. I'm looking forward to trying out STI levers and bar end shifters soon as I try to make up my mind.
Stuartieboy
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Well live and learn! I must say, Bill. You have opened up my eyes to the possibilities. :D
Thanks! :)
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yeah me too if i were to change things around it would be the last photo,but where to buy the adapters to fit the barends?
anto
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I've tried both systems extensively and expensively and now gone back to indexed downtube shifters on my derailleur bikes :o
Sti: bad: complex, expensive, fiddly to fit, limited life, sometimes mis shift and difficult to use with cold/wet/tired hands, sometimes shift instead of braking and vice versa, fiddly front trimming (based on Ultegra 6600 2x10 compact AND 6700 3x10 full systems)
good: can shift whilst standing on pedals.
Bar ends : bad: about half a kilo heavier than downtube shifter set up ( I weighed it.), can attack knees, still not an optimal ergonomic shifter position. (Based on 8 and 9 speed Ultegra index/friction bar ends)
good: reliable, long lived, multiple shifts easy, trimming easy. Emergency downshift really easy with low normal derailleur.
Downtube set up by contrast is simplest, lightest, tidiest, easiest to set up, cheapest, least integrated, most reliable, most flexible for hybridised transmissions, and for me at least; as ergonomic as bar ends. I find bigger arm/hand/shoulder and back movements beneficial as they help reduce RSI stress by requiring more mobility. Downside may be more planning required for shifting but as I'm not racing this is actually a pleasure, and I no longer need to shift standing up as a hybridised transmission allows me to have low enough gears for climbing seated.
Mind you some of the centrally mounted systems above could be good but the boutique parts are generally so expensive :-[
The cocktail of Zen simplicity and Luddism is the one for me.
Try them all it's often suprising and counter intuitive what works best.
Ian
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well have to say in all the years i used sti i never once had a problem.
mind you I'm gentle on my bikes like my baby's and i shift gears one at a time never go from 11 to 28 in one jump and visa versa.
jags.
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The cocktail of Zen simplicity and Luddism is the one for me.
Ian
;D I love it, Ian! ;D
But for me, I'm afraid my cocktail is more potent - Keep the Zen, but replace Luddism with Technophilia!
I had Suntour down tube friction shifters on my old (much loved and lamented) Bridgestone Antares LDT, and it took me ages to conquer them. My revelation came by chance upon meeting a touring cyclist on the road who showed me how to "double-shift" both gears at once with one hand. There is no other method I know of to accomplish this, which avoids the gear overlaps in derailleur setups.
I preferred them to my bar ends, but still like the twist grip Rohloff best! A true Luddite wouldn't see the value in the Rohloff.
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More potent!? Possibly even explosive :o
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I'm sure I'll be forgiven for speaking from a point of relative ignorance but would not the desire/need for a bar bag of a certain size influence the decsion whether or not to put bar end or sti shifters on a tourer - perhaps on an audax too?
A friend of mine has Shimano STI shifters, he runs the cables through V brake type brake noodles so that the brake cables do not go straight towards the bar bag.
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+1 (...or +4) for downtube shifters, Ian; I actually prefer them on four of my bikes, including my favorite rando bike.
For something a bit different, I'm running a pair of thumbshifters near the stem of my tandem. A bar-end shifter controls the big Arai drum drag brake.
All the best,
Dan. (...who thinks these differences and personalizations are what make bikes really special)
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My favourite shifters are downtube on my Thorn Audax. Got bar-end shifters on a couple of bikes, one set mounted on retroshift levers.
I like that downtube and bar-end shifters are cheap enough to keep some as spares (bought second-hand off ebay), and make mixing of otherwise incompatible drivetrain parts easy. My Thorn Audax for example has a road chainset and front mech and mtb cassette and rear mech.
Maintenance is simple and they don't need new gear cables or fine-tuning as often as sti systems. I have 9sp Campag ergo levers on my Bianchi road bike and am thinking of trying friction downtube shifters to avoid having to send them off for a service or "upgrade" to 10-speed.
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Some very nice setups, Erudin.
Plus (!) downtube shfters are light and east to pack as backups should STI pack it in while touring.
All the best,
Dan. (...whose downtube shifters -- with one exception and it has the option -- are all friction)
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I started out with the bar end shifters and have converted to Tiagra STI shifters - and they're pretty good!
I agonised over the bar end - v - STI shifters when I was warming up to buy my Thorn Audax. I went for the bar end shifters to save a little money and because of the reported simplicity and reliability. That was all completely true.
However, I like the ergonomical design of the STI levers (how they feel when rising for several hours and being able to change gear while holding on) and when I had the opportunity to get some used Tiagra shifters very cheaply I couldn't resist. They perform nicely but it is true they need adjusting from time to time and the rear is so much easier to adjust than the front.
I have used a bike with Ultegra STI levers and these are nice, very nice, and very expensive. The concealed cables are an added bonus.
Here's a post about installing STI levers. Be aware the bar end levers have a reverse thread (as far as I recall). Take a look at the bottom of the post and there is a link to an article going through the question you have asked, although this is a couple of years old now.
http://thecyclehub.net/installing-shimano-tiagra-shifters/
Hope this helps.
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Hi Doug, thanks for that information. I'm just going to check out the link you posted.
Stuartieboy