Thorn Cycles Forum
Community => Rohloff Internal Hub Gears => Topic started by: MilitantGraham on March 04, 2014, 10:30:17 am
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It's common practice with derailleurs to only use outer cables for the bends and have the inners exposed between the cable stops on the straight frame tubes, so why do Rohloff recommend full outers ?
Has anyone done it ?
Any reason why I shouldn't ?
It's for a tandem, if that makes a difference.
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Exposed cables are used on racing bikes to minimise the effects of cable compression and facilitate prompt shifting. It's a bit less of an issue with modern SIS compressionless cable-housing, but old habits die hard in racing. With the Rohloff the cable housing is the old-style spiral wound housing that will compress somewhat, but as the indexing is all internal for the hub it is really not an issue. Having covered cables is more valuable especially if you tour, ride dirt roads, or ride in wet conditions as they keep your cables free of grit and junk. I prefer this.
Having said all that it is a choice up to you. My son recently set up a Rohloff on his bike and went with open cable along the top tube as the end-stops were there. I have suggested that closed cables have maintenance advantages but he does it his way, and it will probably be quite OK for a long time.
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The cables on a Rolhoff run a little loose, but as long as you have enough tension to hold the cable in the correct places you should be fine with exposed cables. On my bike the cables are housed as far as the rear brake pivot and then exposed for a few inches to the Rolhoff cables joints. I clipped them to the top tube using Rolhoff cables clamps.
But now you have said this I may try exposed cables when I have a bit of spare time one afternoon.
Peter
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I have found that exposed cables are not good for rainy-weather riding. The grit and dirt from the road gets onto the exposed cable, and near the cable enclosures the back-and-forth movement of the cable brings the grit into the enclosed section. If you never ride in the rain, then exposed cables may be fine, but for me (year-round commuter in a rainy climate) I much prefer fully-enclosed cables.
- Dave
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In general I agree with Dave, it is better to cover if possible. That said, I have an internal rolhoff with 6" of exposed cable and have never had a problem with the exposed section. I'd prefer to have it fully enclosed.
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If one is running exposed mech cables in foul conditions, fitting a v-brake bellows cover and a small cable tie to keep it in place go far toward avoiding problems and keeps the housing runs both cleaner and drier. I did this for friends with MTB seatstay-mounted cable stops and this greatly reduced problems of dirt/mud/water ingress along the cable.
Should work as well with Rohloff cables, though I too much prefer closed runs if possible.
Best,
Dan.
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I was thinking of a mountain bike when I asked the question, forgetting that there are more touring cyclists than mountain bikers here, which is why I thought exposed cables would be better.
With 2.5m of inner wire and only 1m of outer cable, it's easy to unclip the outer ends from the frame and slide them back and forth along the inner wire to clean everything and distribute the oil.
With full length outers, you are limited to trying to get the oil in from either end, although Middleburn cable oilers (http://www.sjscycles.co.uk/middleburn-cable-oilers-4mm-prod31608/) help.
I'll give it a go then, with some Shimano seals (http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/shimano-gear-cable-tongue-shield-kit/rp-prod29462) on all the exposed ends.
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don't suppose you have a photo of those shimano seals on your bike. :)
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With 2.5m of inner wire and only 1m of outer cable, it's easy to unclip the outer ends from the frame and slide them back and forth along the inner wire to clean everything and distribute the oil.
Not so easy with the Rohloff. With a MTB running derailleurs you do this by setting the gear in largest sprocket, then releasing the shifter to top gear. This gives you a good measure of slack to slip the outers out of the stops. With the Rohloff there is no such release possible (full length or exposed sections). You might be able to get some extra slack by setting the cables a bit slack on the EX box and using the barrel-adjusters to take up the slack, but I don't know whether this would be enough to get the housings out of the stops on the frame.
With full length outers, you are limited to trying to get the oil in from either end, although Middleburn cable oilers (http://www.sjscycles.co.uk/middleburn-cable-oilers-4mm-prod31608/) help.
With my full length outers, in 3 years of riding on all sorts of roads and bush tracks, I have never lubed the cables. They run just fine.
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Not my bike, but here's how they are assembled on to the frame.
(http://cdn.mos.bikeradar.com/images/bikes-and-gear/bikes/road/1352115987524-1xwrfegfimvzs-500-70.jpg)
And here's what it looks like with the two parts plugged together.
(http://cdn.media.cyclingnews.com/2011/11/02/2/kabush_rm_solo_cable_600.jpg)
...in 3 years of riding on all sorts of roads and bush tracks, I have never lubed the cables
You're not trying hard enough. ;)
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-f-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-frc1/t1/168162_1789535699692_7470077_n.jpg)
I could always cut the inners 5mm too long, that would then definitely give me enough slack if I wind the adjusters all the way in on the external box, if there wasn't enough already.
Worst case scenario, take the cover off the external box and drop the little pulley out. It's worth taking it off every now and then anyway to clear the mud out.
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You get mud in your EX box ??
You need more grease then. Despite all sorts of bush riding I have still plenty of good grease in there..... and I've only replaced it twice I think, despite the alleged service interval of every 500kms ???
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Hi Dave,
for me (year-round commuter in a rainy climate)
Where is this terrible place you live in?
Regards,
pj
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Where is this terrible place you live in?
Sorry for being ambiguous. I'm a year-round commuter, but it isn't rainy all year around (thankfully!). I'm in Vancouver. It's rainy most of the winter, although we normally have a couple of weeks of where there is some snow. The summer are really nice, with only a few rainy days.
- Dave
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Dave thanks for posting the photos,as the man said you learn something new every day. ;)
be sure to wash that bike. :)
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Hey guys, go easy -- Dave lives in a temperate rain forest, 'cept most of it's been cut down in the Lower Mainland...But the winter rain continues even if there are now many fewer trees. Brazilian friends make a neat jeu de mot about "Van-chuver", "chuver" being the Portuguese verb "to rain". Then again, as friends beyond the mountains regularly remind me, "At least we don't have to shovel our winter precip." Some years back, a colleague phoned to say she was visiting Ottawa. This was in mid-Feb., so I said, "Better bundle up, Susie, it's -25 today." She said, "John, I don't care, I haven't seen the sun for forty-two days!" Let me go on record & say that in the many times I've visited Vancouver, I've never been caught in a prolonged grey-rainy spell -- never even been in Van when it's been raining, for that matter, weird as it seems. When I was there last July, everyone was grumbling about how hot it was...
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Dave thanks for posting the photos,as the man said you learn something new every day. ;)
be sure to wash that bike. :)
Anto, I wish I could wash that bike. Unfortunately, it's not mine. It belongs to MilitantGraham, not me. :)
Hey guys, go easy -- Dave lives in a temperate rain forest
Having grown up in Vancouver, I am used to the rain. I prefer it to be rainy yet warm (5C or above) rather than sunny but cold (-10C or below). People who grow up in a sunnier place sometimes don't like Vancouver winters because of the lack of sunshine. We had a guest from Brazil stay with us for 4 weeks in January a few years ago. It rained every day that she was here, not a single bit of sunshine! She was not happy.
I rode to work yesterday in the pouring rain, and it was a fantastic ride. It was 8C, which is a nice riding temperature. As for the rain, I like this quote: "There is no such thing as bad weather, just bad clothing." I have good wet-weather riding clothes, and that makes all the difference. And with my Rohloff hub, Hebie Chainglider, and rear fender mounted on the front (shamelessly copied from Dan-- thanks for the idea and photos, Dan!), my bike is equally set up for wet riding.
- Dave
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Dave here in Ireland we get a rain not as much as people think ,out climate is reckoned to be the best on the planet,no idea who said that wasn't me honest,
anyway cycling in the rain is not my idea of fun, give me calm sunny days any day.
jags
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here in Ireland we get a rain ... give me calm sunny days any day
I completely agree. I much prefer riding on a warm sunny day instead of a rainy day. But I don't want to let the rain stop me from riding. The only thing which really stops me is snow or ice, which we don't get much of here.
And don't forget that without the rain, we would be living in a desert. The benefit of the rain is the beautiful setting we have for riding. This part of the world is very green, as is yours. It's no coincidence that the most beautiful parts of the world also get their fair share of rain.
- Dave
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That's a nice way of looking at it ;)
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Hehe! Interesting to hear the different expectations and patterns of local weather. Down here where I live people comment "if you don't like the weather wait five minutes!" The Finn brothers in the band Crowded House wrote the song 'Four Seasons in One Day' all about our city's weather.
http://youtu.be/OeYEyCDRHmE
;D
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And with my Rohloff hub, Hebie Chainglider,
(the latter on advice from Dan & Andre) and good coverage from my VO Zeppelin fenders, my Raven should work fine on my planned trek in BC & the Pacific NW -- likely in the summer, tho'!
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and good coverage from my VO Zeppelin fenders
I also have Buddy Flaps (again, shamelessly copying from Dan). They make a big difference, especially the front one.
- Dave
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We're dry enough here that I have spiffy leather mudflaps, locally made (across the river near Chelsea, QC) with TallTree's own "Steelwool" brand stamped into the leather. Might have to change them for something like a Buddy for a ride on the West Coast (tho' the "Buddy" always makes me think of The Rock -- Buddy Wasisname and The Other Fellers.)
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Down here where I live people comment "if you don't like the weather wait five minutes!"
Quite true, Pete! I ventured down there for the Aussie tennis Open in January. It was 17C at 3 PM Sunday when we arrived, and 43C on the Tuesday! (That's 110F in the old currency)
I don't mind rainy weather riding if it catches me out, but I hate departing in the wet. And warm and rainy is fine, but cold and wet is nothing short of miserable. I wear glasses, so misty or drizzly is a pain.
Where I live, it only rains at night, so it's green around here and we get to ride in beautiful sunny weather! (Zzzzzzz... Don't wake me up.... It's such a lovely dream.....)
:)
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Yes, I lived in Melbourne for a few years. It is one of my favorite cities, one of the great cities of the world, but no one can pretend the weather is a constant. One day in the spring I walked from my house in St Vincent Place in Albert Park to Government House, a couple of miles at most, for the gubbernator's garden party, wearing a light linen suit, as one does. (1) When I arrived I was blue with cold and had to huddle inside with the smart ladies in sleeveless dresses: it was snowing.
Now I live in the green and beloved isle. It would be a lot easier to live and cycle in if it weren't so green, because all that greenery requires copious amounts of rain.
(1) No, that wasn't the year I got my three Borzoi individually inscribed invitations... see http://coolmainpress.com/ajwriting/archives/1140 -- "Why I keep a hedgehog as my pet"
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That must have been a day in around October 2006 Andre if I recall correctly. Snow falling in Melbourne itself (or the suburbs, outside of the Dandenong Ranges) is a rare enough thing, even in Melbourne, that you really remember it.
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In mid-January 2012 we were visiting our son and daughter-in-law in SE Queensland and we took a short tour around the hills in the QLD/NSW border. The temps in Melbun had been 40+ as we left. Returning to QLD a few days later, I was chatting with a guy at a petrol station about winter weather in Canada at the time. He mentioned that they'd had snow in Melbun a day or two back -- from 40 to 0 in a couple of days, and in mid-summer! We occasionally have a dump of snow in Eastern/Central Ontario in May, our transition month from March to July, but the biggest temp swing I've seen is about 20 - 25 degrees in 3 -5 hours.
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That must have been a day in around October 2006 Andre if I recall correctly. Snow falling in Melbourne itself (or the suburbs, outside of the Dandenong Ranges) is a rare enough thing, even in Melbourne, that you really remember it.
This was the previous time snow fell on the garden party, in the early 70's. Notable because rare, as you say.
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"There is no such thing as bad weather, just bad clothing."
I think you mean "There is no such thing as bad weather, only inappropriate clothing." Sir Rannulph Fiennes.
The first time I remember it being said was by Billy Connolly, the way he said it was amusing enough that I remember it.
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Actually I got that date wrong, it was actually about 1996, not 2006.
He mentioned that they'd had snow in Melbun a day or two back -- from 40 to 0 in a couple of days, and in mid-summer!
I think this may be incorrect. We have not had snow, even in winter, since 1996 (and that was just a few flakes). At Christmas 2006 we had a very cold stormy morning that left many suburbs with piles of hail in the garden for much of the day - not snow. It was 13C that day. For part of Jan 2012 we were in eastern Tasmania with generally very fine weather and one stormy change that just brought rain and was a little cool. Looking at the BOM data for Melbourne Jan 2012 there was no day that month with a max temp below 19C.
Snow in Melbourne is exceedingly rare at any time. However it can fall on a very cold day (even in summer) in the higher mountains nearby - usually those over 1200-1500m.