Thorn Cycles Forum
Technical => Lighting and Electronics => Battery Charging from a Dynamo => Topic started by: Danneaux on August 29, 2012, 10:07:27 pm
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Hi All!
I see Busch und Muller are offering a new headlight with an integrated handlebar-mounted switch/selector that also has a USB charging port. This post could have been filed under the "Lighting and Electronics" board, but the inclusion of a USB/remote made the "Battery Charging from a Dynamo" child board the logical choice, so here it is.
Translated from German by Google, the description reads...
The first LUMOTEC with IQ2 technology. Gigantic achievement. New features. Never has the desire to light was so great.
IQ2 technology
With the new light and reflector design puts Busch & Mόller the bar for Dynamo LED headlight higher than ever: 70 lux (e-bike version 140 lux) light box twice as wide as before, by a multiple of large, homogeneous maximum. Dynamo Generated light penetrates into a new dimension - so wide, so wide, so spotlessly bright
Panorama near beam
Excellent, the light field and wide like never before. Immediately before the bike, and even next to the bike over to the side of the road beyond Technology: additional special LEDs, electronically controlled.
Floodlight
The full power of all light sources. Ideal for difficult sections in deep darkness. Be activated by pressing a button. Function in bright light: headlight flasher. In darkness, in as full light.
USB charging option
USB socket integrated in the handlebar switch. Loading USB mobile devices (mobile phone, GPS, MP3 player) with USB power. In the headlights integrated backup battery (see below) ensures constant charging current.
Handlebar switch
Now you can control your light directly. Because all important light functions can be switched on the handlebars: ON / OFF, flood light, flash light, etc.
Built-in lithium backup battery
The additional current memory is used for peak loads and the charging current. Loading constantly on when driving. The charging status is indicated by LEDs on the handlebar switch.
Licht24. The daytime running lights
Front-firing signal LEDs. The automatic sensor turns on automatically in daylight maximum daytime running lights in the dark to maximum.
Sidelights
Automatically. The special LEDs are targeted at security perception. Can switch on the handlebars are turned off.
Taillight Monitor
A control LED lights on constantly shows whether an attached tail light is working properly.
With clip front reflector.
Fall 2012.
The link describing this new light is here (in German): http://www.bumm.de/produkte/dynamo-scheinwerfer/lumotec-iq2-luxos.html
It is available in three models with escalating features, but it isn't cheap: Prices run from Euro119 to Euro179 and top out at Euro199. The first two are rated at 70Lux, while the most expensive is switchable from 60/140Lux. The beam pattern of the IQ2 compaed to the IQ is shown here: http://www.bumm.de/innovation-original/iq-iq2.html The panorama LUMOTEC IQ2 LUXOS beam pattern is stunning in the tunnel photograph shown here, fifth photo down from the top: http://www.bumm.de/innovation-original/lichtvergleich-scheinwerfer.html the panoramic beam pattern is due to a more vertical placement of the LED emitter in relation to the parabolic mirror reflector, also shown here: http://www.bumm.de/innovation-original/iq-iq2.html and described thusly... The IQ technology of the next generation: filament position, reflector, LED and cooling are optimized radically. Using a prism light output and efficiency can be increased significantly. Additional LEDs combined with electronic controls allow "dynamic lighting", adapted to the driving situation. From a dynamo powered headlight produces a light field by a multiple of large and as homogeneous as never before.
I realize the Lithium battery is needed to smooth current output for smart-phone charging, but I hope it will be replaceable when it finally succumbs. All other functions mirror those of the current IQ series, including the IQ Cyo lights.
Introduction date is listed for Fall 2012; I'll be looking forward to some early tests -- it looks the business, but sometimes the results don't always mirror the ad copy.
Best,
Dan.
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The 70 lux version of the Luxos appears to be a useful lamp, superior to the IQ generations of which I've constantly complained about their poor side-throw; it must be safer on narrow lanes if that tunnel picture in Dan's post above represents a throw that will be matched in production, and not a wishful spread of nothing real mocked up by the ad department. Since I used to be the ad department, you'll excuse my cynicism, but after my recent experiences with the second generation of IQ lamps, my money will stay in my bank until I see independent photographs of production versions of these lamps. For instance, the BUMM publicity photos of the second gen IQ didn't show the wretched hotspot...
As I have an E bike, if this lamp is good, I look forward to the 140 lux version of the Luxos. That's Big Bang, HID lamp, territory, get the hell off my road with your poncey SUV! And the BUMM specs in German, to which Dan kindly directed us, seems to say a handlebar switch comes with all but the cheapest model, which is autoswitching, so presumably one will use the Luxos E on 65 lux as a dipped lamp and on 140 lux for really, really fast downhills taken at daylight speeds. We've already seen with the first gen Cyo, the good one, that 40 lux was more than enough for fast work, that the 60 lux had the extra illumination wasted on useless reach when it should instead have been used sideways to orient the cyclist more comfortably in his surroundings, not even to mention a spot of elevation to catch important road signs like junction and give-way warnings. (You can tell, I nearly had my head taken off by a truck crossing a road from which I was supposed to give him the right of way; I just never saw the crossroads nor the sign, and didn't hear the truck because there was a tractor on my rear wheel.)
It takes BUMM only ten years to catch up with their customers... They're just lucky that their competitors are even slower.
Andre Jute
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Floodlight beam (flutlicht) on the USB model is rated at 90 lux 8)
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the panoramic beam pattern is due to a more vertical placement of the LED emitter in relation to the parabolic mirror reflector, also shown here: http://www.bumm.de/innovation-original/iq-iq2.html and described thusly...
If you take close note of the reflector profile in this image
(http://www.bumm.de/uploads/tx_bummprodukte/179U__LUXOS_U__freigestellt.jpg)
I believe the panoramic beam comes from two directional LEDs focussed at a 45 deg angle by the corner scoops in the reflector.
Just what I seem to be able to work out.
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I believe the panoramic beam comes from two directional LEDs focussed at a 45 deg angle by the corner scoops in the reflector.
I think you've sussed it out well, Pete; that's my impression as well on going back and looking at the info BUMM have published. Very clever optics. I really like the design, and like Andre, hope it fulfills its promise. I wish it wasn't so expensive, but it is not a bad deal compared to an IQ Cyo and a Tout Terrain The Pug 2 and PAT cable. I wish we had figures on the USB output and more specifics on the whole package. I am very optimistic we're on the cusp of greatly improved bike lighting, and I can't wait to see what's around the corner. This light is slated for a "Fall 2012" introduction, so tests should be appearing shortly.
Best,
Dan.
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http://www.bike24.com/p238291.html
doesn't sem a bad price for a great light. ;)
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Jags,
The Luxos "B" is the decontented version compared to the "U" with USB charging and remote.
The "B" lacks a number of features, including...
USB charging with port in a remote switch (no remote switch, either)
buffer battery
No rear-light monitor
Missing option for 90lux floodlight option
No extra-wide, panorama low-beam as far as I can tell (but does include "side lights")
It does have the daytime running lights (of doubtful benefit in my mind, but may be good in others' view; I'd just leave the main light switched on), side-viewable lighting and automatic switching.
The "B" version is therefore less expensive than the "U" as a result of all the missing features. It has the external appearance and style of the "U", but not the features.
Best,
Dan. (...who will scare up and post links to some really outstanding beam-shots in a just a bit; rewiring part of the house at the mo')
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Ah Hah glad i asked or posted that link. ;)
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Peter White http://www.peterwhitecycles.com/b&m-hl.asp (http://www.peterwhitecycles.com/b&m-hl.asp) is carrying these in the USA. I have one on order (actually through Bilenky who are modifying a front rack to have a roll cage for the light). So, I hope to be able to report on it in a month or so.
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I hope to be able to report on it in a month or so.
Yaaaay, George! Good on you!
So looking forward to your firsthand report. Very wise to get the headlight "roll cage" installed on the rack (I'll bet that will look nice, as well; Bilenky's shop does such nice work).
Did you choose the "U" or the "B"?
All the best,
Dan.
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I'm getting the U.
Bilenky is also putting couplers on my Robert Beckman frame -- that's what I'm planning to use on my West Coast tour this Spring.
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Ah! Very nice indeed, George! Bob Beckman's bags were always very nice (Bruce Gordon showed me some early models back in the day when he lived in Eugene and was designing his cro-mo racks; Beckman designed and made the bags to extremely high standards and tey had innovative zippered dividers for on-the-fly-reconfiguration), and the Beckman bikes...well! ;D As I recall, he designed them and subcontracted the actual builds; they were remarkable bikes and for a time, the only true expedition bikes of that sort available stateside. Is it a Sakkit Expedition 26? He was located for some years in Bend (another Oregon connection) but I've lost track of him in recent years. I do recall seeing a Sakkit for sale in Texas about four years ago. Is that one now yours?
It sure does make a difference when your touring bike designer actually tours and can draw on personal experience. Andy Bance does this with the Thorns and it shows in a very positive way.
All the best,
Dan. (...who has a mind for bicycle trivia)
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I remember that bike for sale; I hope the owner eventually got what it was worth.
This is one I had built for me -- Beckman now does the build himself, but contracts out the painting. His reputation for schedule problems is, unfortunately, well-deserved -- I ordered the bike in the summer of 2004, with a promise of getting it that year, and received it at the end of 2008, and that, only after considerable pressure. The bags are gorgeous, and well thought-out, as is the custom mounting system (which requires racks of his design).
By the time it arrived, I had bought a Bike Friday, which I used for a tour of the Cabot Trail a couple summers back, so the Beckman has yet to be used for touring. Bob is still in Bend.
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Say george how much is that light with peter white. ;)
(that sounds like a line from a song ) ;D ;D
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From Peter's website:
Luxos B, 70 lux, IQ2 Optics, Standlight, Licht 24 (auto switching between daytime and nightime modes), pictured mount included. Weight: 3.8 ounces without the included B&M475DPB mount.
Part # B&M179B-04R: $ 160.00
Luxos U, 70 lux, IQ2 Optics, Licht 24, USB charging (onboard AC to DC converter) Cache battery for charging, as well as powering the light to 90 lux for short periods, handlebar switch, monitors status of rear light, pictured mount included. Weight: 4 ounces without the included B&M475DPB mount. The Luxos U weighs a bit more due to the cache battery and AC to DC converter.
Part # B&M179U-04LSR: $ 234.00
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thanks for that looks like a great light expensive but what the hell if it does what it's supposed to do it will be worth it.
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Dang it! Even though I told Bilenky to order the light 2 months ago, apparently they didn't get around to it -- so they say a 1-2 month wait.
waaaaah!!!
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Ohhhhh, George!
The sweet agony of it all!
Sympathies!
Nothing is worse than waiting...except waiting in vain.
All the best,
Dan. (...who, as a kid, couldn't figure why the mail truck didn't deliver his whatzit 10 minutes after the envelope with the cereal box-tops went out...and who still can't!)
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bike24 offer it for just 124.90 Euro (http://www.bike24.com/1.php?content=8;navigation=1;product=38271;page=3;menu=1000,5,66;mid=39;pgc=0) (including shipping to Australia), but delivery date unknown.
:-\
[edit] Just ordered it. We'll see what the story is about delivery timeline.
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wow thats a great price 8)
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There is some very tricky electronic circuitry happening in the Luxos U
And here is the Luxos U beam at low speed. It reduces the power to the primary LED and sends it to two other LEDs which project light close to the bike and to each side. This happens automatically, and gradually. In other words, there isn't a speed above which the distance beam is on, and just below that the near beam switches on. Oh no. At about 15kph, as you go slower, the distant beam gradually dims, while the near beam gradually increases. It's a very smooth transition as your speed changes.
Taken with super-wide 16mm lens, panorama beam at <15kmh. It lights up the whole car-park!! ;D
(http://www.peterwhitecycles.com/images/products/Lights/luxos-u-pano-16mm.jpg)
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Thanks for that, Il Padrone. It's looking more and more like a quantum step forward even over the Cyo. The question is, how will the other lamps lurking just over the horizon be better, rather than just cheaper. 124 or whatever is around 25% of the price of a decent enough mountain bike!
Andre Jute
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so you guys that know about dynamo and head lights are the Bush n Muller reckoned to be the overall best.how does the other brands stand up .
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The Schmidt eDelux at 70lux is also excellent. It's what I've been using.
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The Philips is rated by some as having a better beam than either the Cyo or the Edelux. Then there are the Axa lights (Nano, others?). I've never seen either of these in the flesh.
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thanks lads good info at the end of the day it's all about who shines the brightest ;)
i shall bide my time..
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I'm pretty sure that currently B&M are 'kick-ar$e' when it comes to development of lighting technology for the market. There will always be something new on the horizon, but B&M always seem to be on top of it.
Buy what you need, when you need it. Waiting for 'the next big thing' is an endless loop.
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Quite a detailed review of the light is given here (http://yacf.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=63183.msg1416745#msg1416745) - it sounds very promising.
This comment sounded quite interesting:
What I particularly like is that because the dynamo charges the internal battery and not the light directly, you get full brightness when stopped (e.g. at traffic lights or when fixing a nightime puncture). This is a huge improvement over my Solidlights 'standlight' which was pretty feeble in comparison.
Also as I suspected, the light can be operated directly from the control switch on the rear of the lamp. So even if your handlebar remote switch fails, gets lost or damaged, you still have a functional light.
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the tester seems well pleased and tested them against a few top lights as well so great news for the new kid on the block. ;)
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.... as you increase speed, the beam moves forward lighting up a longer strip in front of you.
This overcomes a serious complaint with the Cyo, all models, that it lit up the road in approximately the right place only at one speed.
Ugly bugger though, the Luxos. And the USB fitting is awkward and ugly too. Mind you, I managed, eventually, to hide most of the ugly wiring of the pedelec, but that was the most frustrating of fitting it, and it looks like the USB Luxos has the same problem.
In theory you can add internal cable runs to the tubes of a bike, but I'm leery of doing it on a steel bike. On the other hand, the bottom of the steering tube is open, and the top of an aheadset can be fixed with a hollow bolt, or the steerer can be fixed in the head tube by a lockring around the outside, as I've done, and then it is hollow all the way up, a perfect conduit.
Andre Jute
Andre Jute
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yes i was thinking of routing the cables inside the tubes make for a nice neat job , but is it worth going to all that bother.dont get me wrong i love keeping my bike looking really clean and smart thing of beauti after all ,but with the inventing of cable ties you can get cables tidy very easy.
so Andre are you getting any closed to buying that new U light. ::) ::)
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so Andre are you getting any closed to buying that new U light. ::) ::)
No. I've been burned by enthusiasm for BUMM rubbish before. I'l wait till I see the lamp and the beamshape in person, or in the photographs of a reliable, known person, not a salesman. The remark in that review about the "hotspot not being too bad" gives me plenty of pause and should give you pause too; it's a judgement that's influenced by a new toy, and in a few weeks could shift to "that ??° hotspot is really, really irritating".
Andre Jute
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The remark in that review about the "hotspot not being too bad" gives me plenty of pause and should give you pause too; it's a judgement that's influenced by a new toy, and in a few weeks could shift to "that ??° hotspot is really, really irritating".
Here is a super wide angle shot (16mm) of the distance beam from Peter White, showing what I assume to be the hot-spot.
(http://www.peterwhitecycles.com/images/products/Lights/luxos-u-full-16mm.jpg)
I reckon I could put up with a 'hot-spot' that big - wider than the roadway ;) Also regarding beam-shots, I do pretty much trust the approach Peter White has taken with his photos. They match up closely with what I have experienced for several of these lights for me.
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if that's true to life (photo) then that's one hell of a light much better than my cateye.but your going to know for sure unless you see it in real life for yourself.
but saying that if i had the dosh i would buy in a heartbeat. ;)
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Here is a super wide angle shot (16mm) of the distance beam from Peter White, showing what I assume to be the hot-spot.
(http://www.peterwhitecycles.com/images/products/Lights/luxos-u-full-16mm.jpg)
I reckon I could put up with a 'hot-spot' that big - wider than the roadway ;) Also regarding beam-shots, I do pretty much trust the approach Peter White has taken with his photos. They match up closely with what I have experienced for several of these lights for me.
I'd need the Luxos E 60/140 lumens, which will cost 180 landed here. I think I'll wait and see; I don't like those striations but they may be more pronounced on icy tarmac than on my normal dry nighttime ride. There are several months yet before nighttime rides for pleasure come into the frame here.
Maybe I'll make a DIY LED MR16 lampset first; I had a lot of fun with MR16s in the past.
Andre Jute
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Hi guys,
Training has been going well, getting a bit fed up with the windy/wet weather this last Month but it can't last forever can it?
Im now thinking of some longer rides where I will need a sat nav, I don't really want to splash out on a dedicated garmin just yet so Im going to use my iphone with a gps app.
The charging of such a device appears full of pitfalls, there is some good posts here on various solutions but as we all know these can often be outdated within Weeks of posting.
I am looking at this at the minute
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Busch-Muller-Lumotec-IQ2-Luxos/dp/B009IUOE6O/ref=reg_hu-rd_add_1_dp
I just cant seem to figure out if it will charge an iphone, any ideas?
Ian
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I am looking at this at the minute
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Busch-Muller-Lumotec-IQ2-Luxos/dp/B009IUOE6O/ref=reg_hu-rd_add_1_dp
I just cant seem to figure out if it will charge an iphone, any ideas?
Luxos U offers 5V capped at 1A. The built-in battery keeps the charge steady, even if the bike stops. But the bit you want to pay attention to is where it says the lamp will receive priority up to 20 Lux. If the lamp output falls below 20 lux, USB charging is interrupted. There's a red light to tell you when USB charging is available.
This, "Permanent USB charging with more than 100 mA is only possible when all light functions are switched off", seems to imply that you'll be able to charge an iPhone fully at the normal wallwart speed (5V, 1A) only during daytime without even the daylight running LEDs in operation. 100mA for sure is not even enough to keep the screen from draining the battery further.
However...
What happens when you plug an iPhone into a PC with a limp USB, and it doesn't charge up, or it charges up very slowly, is that most of the juice is used merely to keep the screen alive. I don't have a PC set up right now to test it on, but it is a well-known phenomenon.
My iPhone 4S (the least battery-efficient of the current iPhones) with a near new battery, even sucking on the slightly more efficient iMac USB rather than the full strength wallwart, recharges from 50% to full under two hours. More than twice as fast on the wallwart.
So, I think eight hours on the bike, even with daylight running lights on, even with a moderate average speed, should be more than enough to charge an iPhone, especially if you're meticulous about switching off the screen when it is not in use for GPS or whatever.
All the same, I think it would be smart to have a piggy-back battery to be charged during long stretches in which you won't be using the GPS. That would give you the security of a couple of days' use if you're in the mud going very slowly, or riding mainly at night with all lamps blazing, or your wiring to the USB has been snagged and snapped, or you read on into the night and ran the primary battery dry, or you want to take video of some rare event, or you get really lost and need to use the GPS constantly.
Andre Jute
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Thanks Andre,
Thats useful info.
I intend to just use the iphone towards the end of a ride to find the B&B or maybe occasionally to get through a town.
My concern was compatibility, on the sjs site it makes a point of saying the ewerk doesnt charge an iphone even with the bakup battery so that made me think about the B&M light
I will have access to mains power in the evenings so no problem there.
Looks like its a goer, just gotta find the nerve to press 'buy it now' on Amazon :p
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Hi Ian!
Andre answered you well. I can only add the most efficient way to recharge any gadget while on-bike is to do so while it is powered-down; off is preferable. Otherwise, it is like trying to fill a leaking bucket.
I don't own an iPhone, but many devices which use high-demand lithium batteries have thresholds built into the charging circuitry, and Apple was known for this with their early iPods and first-generation iPhones and it is still an issue. Unless initial current was sufficiently high, the device (and its battery) simply wouldn't go into charging mode. For more on this, see: http://www.ladyada.net/make/mintyboost/icharge.html
Simply (re)charging or topping off a device is sufficient for many needs -- say, recharging some AA/AAA cells or a camera battery for later use (I've tried to standardize my gadgets on AA/AAA cells for this reason whenever possible). If you wish to continually power a device, then a buffer battery is pretty much a necessity, especially if you want uninterrupted operation as with a GPS. Many Garmin units require a manual reset after voltage drops too far, though Garmin's built-in "Spanner" software can largely alleviate the problem in more recent Garmii.
The real problems come with extended time away from mains power (where batteries can be quickly brought to full charge by simply plugging the charger into the wall). Eventually, the buffer batteries go down and with only a single charging source, that can mean some downtime until you catch up with the deficit. This is a problem for me in my goal to have the GPS continuously track my progress; it takes a *lot* of power to do so and it seems most people simply go back and recreate their path in an online mapping program like ridewithgps or CGOAB.
The powered device usually has a battery of its own and in the short term that provides power while the buffer battery is recharged. The trick is to balance charging time against loss. If your device has a removable battery, the cheapest solution is to simply carry a spare if the remaining battery can be charged outside the device. If it can't -- or you can't swap the battery -- then a second charging source will be needed if the device is run continuously. Bicycle charging solutions rarely keep up with the full demands of an operating device. Usually, they make for a smaller leak in the bucket. Some of my touring friends have chosen Android phones (Samsung's Galaxy series, for example) precisely because the batteries can be exchanged. You can get to the same end by using an external booster battery (a bit different from a buffer battery in use) with an iPhone.
Fitting a dynohub and e-Werk to my trailer is one way I can address the shortcoming of "only" a dynohub and Tout Terrain The Plug2 with PAT cable on the front wheel. I plan to use the trailer to charge a second buffer battery while in motion, then swap that for the one in my HB bag as needed. Solar can provide a needed second charging source if the weather and conditions allow for it, but can be less efficient for charging while in-motion due to suboptimal sun-tracking.
Best,
Dan.
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That's a lot of messing around, Dan, just to keep electronic devices charged up. I bet you can remember when you toured without anything electronic, and managed just fine.
Thanks for the excellent overview of the possibilities.
Andre Jute
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My concern was compatibility, on the sjs site it makes a point of saying the ewerk doesnt charge an iphone even with the bakup battery so that made me think about the B&M light
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Looks like its a goer, just gotta find the nerve to press 'buy it now' on Amazon :p
Whoa! If there is something about the E-Werk electronics that the Apple iPhone doesn't like, chances are, Murphy's Law being what it is, that the offending (for want of a better word) design was carried over into the Luxos lamp. Something like, say, the charging threshold that Dan says featured in earlier Apple mobile gear. You'd better clear that up, Ian, before you blow the money -- it's a pretty expensive lamp!
Andre Jute
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Thanks guys, always full of great info as usual :)
Too late Andre, I pressed the button......
Oh well guess I will be providing a test run for the forum..... ::)
At the end of the day I still get a decent front light and im sure it will charge a Garmin if/when I get one of those.
Ian
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Thanks guys, always full of great info as usual :)
Too late Andre, I pressed the button......
Oh well guess I will be providing a test run for the forum..... ::)
At the end of the day I still get a decent front light and im sure it will charge a Garmin if/when I get one of those.
Ian
I look forwards to your results keenly. Beamshot photos would be much appreciated. -- AJ
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That's a lot of messing around, Dan, just to keep electronic devices charged up.
It sure is!I bet you can remember when you toured without anything electronic...
Sure can!...and managed just fine.
Yep!
There are several reasons for the change:
In an attempt to "share" more of my trips, I am now hauling three still/video cameras, which are all battery powered. I used to take one film camera, and it was essentially manual except for the light meter and I could accurately guess my exposures if need be. More cameras also mean more batteries, mounts, and gear (tripods, monopods/extenders, etc).
I plan to carry a netbook (very small laptop) so I can journal and blog my trips...to go with my photos and video. My handwriting has deteriorated over the years (heading toward carpal tunnel syndrome) and my hands are toast after 17 hours/day holding the handlebars on rough roads, so handwriting is out. The netbook gives me a shot, plus a repository for storing/editing/uploading the lot whenever I find free wifi.
Increased touring farther afield in remote areas for longer periods of time, so I'm away from mains current and must be more self-sufficient. I'm also alone, so the cell phone -- which did not exist for many of my touring decades -- has become an essential. I can't hunker down while a buddy seeks help. Going off-road over a much larger area makes the GPS a "necessary convenience" where previously it was paper maps and a compass (or two, I'm risk-averse). Same for the cellphone, where I can get reception. It stays off and charged till I need it, 'cos the attempts to link to out-of-range and distant cell towers greatly increases battery drain while on standby.
Going alone, I can't split the haulage of gear, so I need to make my supplies self-renewing to a degree to save weight and bulk. Generating electricity helps greatly and is lighter than batteries. For example, the powered SteriPen water purifier ends up being lighter and less bulky than the fuel and time needed to boil water and lasts longer than the supply of water-purifying pills I have taken (though I still carry some and have the option to boil if needed). A small radio -- when I can get reception -- helps in lieu of actual companionship. Dynohub lighting is far less weighty than batteries for the extended night riding I sometimes have to do to beat the extreme heat of daytime desert crossings and the GPS helps with nocturnal navigation. Combined with the phone, the GPS gives me a way to guide help to my exact location in trackless wilderness -- if I can get a phone signal. Trouble is, they both need electricity.
Of course, this can all reach a tipping point where there are diminishing returns. A bike tour isn't nearly the relaxing, carefree experience if you integrate it with what amounts to "work". Instead of getting away from it all...you're carrying it all with you! Even the Nomad falls into this category...if I didn't have need to haul so much food and water for extended forays into the back-of-beyond where there is no ready means for resupply, I could get by with a much lighter bike and gear -- and fewer electrically powered gadgets -- making me more nimble and faster. I've done this, but there's far less margin for error, accident, or injury before things go bad very quickly. The Nomad's hauling capacity does one critical thing: It increases my safety margin greatly in terms of reserve food and potable water, and that is worth every extra kilogram. There are *no* emergency services in all of Nevada's northern Washoe County, so if something goes haywire, no one is going to come looking for me except the folks at home who will take action if I don't check in. The Nomad's cargo capacity also allows me to choose to stay a bit longer or go at a slower pace if I desire.
So, yeah. Lots more complicated than it usta be.
Like Andre, I'm greatly looking forward to your experience with the Luxos, Ian. Thanks in advance for sharing with us.
Best,
Dan. (...who still enjoys wild touring where it is allowed)
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Hello guys,
I've emailed B&M with the following letter:
"I have a question regarding the USB charging functions of Lumotec IQ2 Luxos dynamo light.The service manual provided at your website states that: "Connected devices are provided with 5 V and up to 1 A current (Angeschlossene Gerδte erhalten dann bei 5 V Spannung bis zu 1 A Stromstδrke). The standard output of dynamo hubs (such as SON 28) is 6 V with 0.5 A current. The output for dynamo hubs is limited to 0.5 amps, while voltage can potentially go up to 10-12 V (depending on a model of dynamo hub and cycling speed). 10 V at 0.5 A can theoretically be converted to 5 V at 1 A.
Thus, the question is next: does Luxos cache battery use the additional volts provided by dynamo hub to charge itself more quickly and to be able to provide constant 5 V 1A charging to the USB device? Otherwise the device that needs 5 V 1 A charging current (such as most smartphones) will drain the cache battery quicker than it will be charged by dynamo hub."
The reply I got was following:
"It depends how much your smartphone needs... You cannot charge the phone and use apps the same time, as the energy is not enough."
I wrote without much knowledge of electricity principles (as you might have understood), but the question was quite simple: how quickly (with what current and voltage) can cache battery be charged by dynamo, with limited amperage of 0.5 A. Will it charge quickly enough to power the smartphone, given that the wall plug charges it with 1 A at 5 V. Will 0.5 A be enough for it to charge but more slowly? It's a guess. Because if not, the cache battery will be discharged every 10-15-whatever minutes and there will be no use of it.
I'd guess you'd need sort of the same thing as they've done with their USB-werk: http://www.bumm.de/produkte/e-werk-usb-werk.html
Does providing more volts by cycling quicker matter at all? More volts does get you with more watts even if the amperage stays at 0.5 level. But can the battery (circuit) transform those volts into more amps for the usb?
"The SON dynamo can supply 12V-6w from approx 20 kp/h (12 mph) onwards" http://www.m-gineering.nl/son12vg.htm
while
"Most devices that charge via USB need .5 amps. Some devices require more amperage to charge than others. And hub dynamos have only so much amperage to give. If your device requires 1 amp, your hub dynamo won't be able to charge it. You should check the specifications on your device and determine that the input amperage is below 1 amp before buying the USB-WERK. The USB-WERK can delivery 1 amp when the internal cache battery is charged. However, since the hub dynamo cannot produce that much power, the battery will steadily drain. Once it has fully drained, the USB-WERK can no longer charge your device while the device is running. And keep in mind that some devices cannot be charged and run simultaneously." http://www.peterwhitecycles.com/b&musbwerk.asp
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Hi Niki, and welcome to the Forum!
My, what a valuable contribution with your first post, generously sharing your correspondence with B&M; congratulations and thanks all at once! ;D
What you have run into are the same issues that have bedeviled me in my quest for reliable, practical, on-bike charging of my gadgets. It is now easy to find a setup that will charge or at least top-off low-demand gadgets (those geared to the desktop USB 2.0 standard of 5vdc @ 0.5A), though with many chargers, to accomplish this in a reasonable timeframe -- or at all -- the device must be turned off while charging.
Things really come up short when attempting to either a) power *and* charge a device or b) attempting to charge a high-drain/high-draw device -- and devices are becoming more power-hungry by the day. A buffer battery can accomplish the task or awhile, but can't keep up indefinitely if demand is high. Yes, a bigger accumulator/buffer battery helps extend the time you can charge a device, but then you ultimately still have the "robbing Peter to pay Paul" scenario where at some point you either have to top-off the big storage battery with some dedicate dyno charging of its own, or replenish it from mains current.
And, too, the larger your battery, the longer it takes to replenish. This is not so bad if you start your trip with the battery fully charged and then top-off as necessary to replace losses due to slave-charging other devices. What really kills things is having to charge the Big Battery if it has become fully depleted. It can take a long, long time and with some devices may not be possible if fully depleted.
Another snag one runs into with a larger battery is the demands either overwhelm the charging unit outright or the dyno-charger cannot produce sufficient initial voltage/current to initiate charging in the battery. Our own Forum member StuntPilot has run into this very problem with his PowerMonkey Extreme (PME) in trying to charge it from Tout Terrain's The Plug2/2+.
Some higher-demand gadgets come supplied with a small wall transformer to supply mains charging at 5vdc @ 1.0A or even 1.5A, but will "allow" charging from a computer at standard USB 2.0 rates (5vdc @ 0.5A) "when necessary". That last phrase takes on real meaning when it means an effective doubling or tripling of charging times. At least charging at the lower rate is still possible for those devices so designated; they're a dying breed, and the higher charging rates made possible by wider adoption of USB 3.0 standards will seal the seal against low-power charging unless something Big takes place to amp-up (sorry) on-bike dyno-charging. These may now be the Good Old Days. I predict human-powered generation may go by the board if e-Bikes assume a greater role in the marketplace and/or spill over to the touring in future. It would be far easier to simply tap into the e-Bike's main battery for charging as well as lighting.the question was quite simple: how quickly (with what current and voltage) can cache battery be charged by dynamo, with limited amperage of 0.5 A. Will it charge quickly enough to power the smartphone, given that the wall plug charges it with 1 A at 5 V. Will 0.5 A be enough for it to charge but more slowly?
I suspect it would charge, and more slowly -- provided of course, the battery's initial requirements can be met to initiate charging. Some devices (Apple is a prime offender) are really picky about having adequate initial "trigger" power, while other batteries simply try to grab for all the power they can from the get-go, exceeding what the dyno-charger can supply.
The whole process of on-bike charging is very much hit-or-miss at present. I'm hoping it will improve in time, but am a little bit pessimistic as the gadgets seem to have every greater demands for energy, as noted above.
The speed at which maximum charging takes place is important, too -- moreso if one if tootling along on dirt roads or off-road, where speeds aren't as high as on pavement. You asked...Does providing more volts by cycling quicker matter at all?
Well, it can, but still might not make enough difference to matter, depending on the demands of the gadget hooked up to a given charger.But can the battery (circuit) transform those volts into more amps for the usb?
That is the question, for sure, and B&M's answer is candid: It really does "depend on how much your individual smartphone needs... You cannot charge the phone and use apps the same time, as the energy is not enough". Usually, the best one can usually hope for is to recharge a device that is turned off while charging. The demands of actually powering a device while charging it can overwhelm 'most all dyno-chargers currently on the market if the device draws a lot of power -- and sometimes even if it does not.
Another issue facing the person wishing to charge multiple gadgets on-bike is the presence of only one USB outlet. It can be a real challenge to keep up with the demands of charging more than one heavily used gadget -- and it gets worse the longer one is on the road away from mains power. To try and address this limitation, I'll soon be running a dyno-charger on the bike, another on the trailer, and augmenting both of those with a solar panel/buffer battery so I can have three chargers on the boil. I'm also going to take a subsidiary buffer battery for off-bike charging when I reach camp. It takes three hours to recharge from flat and is only 2200mAh, teetering on the nether edge of usefulness between my gadgets' demands and what my Plug2+ can supply.
Fun stuff, if a bit frustrating at times.
Best,
Dan. (...who may have made a few typos 'cos his eyes are still dilated after a glasses exam)
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;) ::) oh nice of you - Falks
Now I am back and not furious/suspicious anymore about USB and electricity.
We visit SON factory in Tubingen; 2 weeks ago !
And it sounds I am close to an extra Wheel and and a Lumotec with USB.
Many thanks to your legendary topics.
Cheers,
Etienne (still struggling to build my third Thorn !)
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Any info on how this new B&M iq2 light preforms Ian is keeping quiet on this one. ;D
so nobody bought the new baby except our Ian ,but i'm thinking you ned a tester that already has a couple of older lights to get a true reading on how much better the new light is.
surly sjs cycles have tested this new light out and could give an honest review on it ,its a lot of money to go spending on a light that no one knows nothing about. ???
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:D :D
;) My light is installed - impressive on a Raven fork (the bulb is larger than a normal light).
Monitor switch installed on the handelbar.
:-\But need to wait 1 week for the SON wheel. will keep you posted !
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Yay, Etienne!
But oh! The agony of waiting!
So looking forward to your reports.
Best,
Dan.
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FWIW - I've got a SON and IQ2 ordered as well. I promise a review, (or commentary on Etienne's review, as he is way ahead of me).
I will need to build the wheel, and the bike, before testing the lights (B&M Topline Brake Plus as well).
Sam
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the more reviews the better ;)
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What will move me off the peg to buy are two things:
1) The absence of large hotspots and sizable artifacts in the beam pattern. <-- I despise the hotspot in my Cyo. It was perfect before B&M "improved" it. I -- and many Disappointed Others still wonder at the change.
2) Some long-term usage to reveal whether the lithium storage battery (used to power the flood-effect and to serve as a buffer battery when charging) develops a memory effect, when, and whether it is user-replaceable. The current super-capacitors employed for the standlight function have no such ills.
If B&M can address those two issues, I'm putty in their hands.
All the best,
Dan. (...who really, really wants to Believe...but has enough tempered enthusiasm from past purchases to put the brakes on for now)
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Hi All!
The reviews are coming in...and I've saved them as they did so I can begin to build a better picture of how the B&M Luxos works in practice.
It is still early days -- apparently the first run was subject to recall to address some problems -- but some general user impressions are forming:
The light (on the U model) sounds really bright, and there is a noticeable hotspot on the distance setting.
The speed-adjusting nearfield flood works very well, and a boost is available for short-term use that draws on the cache battery.
The unit won't charge well when the lights are in use (no surprise there; this is typical for dyno-charging systems that charge most efficiently when both lights and the device being charged are off).
The charging port is not intended for use while it is raining (again, typical for dyno-charged USB ports). There have been a number of anecdotal reports of water ingress if the remote switch/USB port are not firmly plugged into the light, or if the remote-charging port/switch jack connection is not covered with a supplied plug when the remote switch is not in use -- and some reports of water entry even with the plug/cover in place.
There have also been some reported problems on some units with the switch not responding consistently to finger pressure.
Apparently, charging can be interrupted if the cache battery becomes depleted -- until it fills and then depletes again, causing an on-off-on charger cycling.
Here's links to some reviews; it is best to read through them all to gain a total picture of light performance:
CTC Forum: First Impressions
http://forum.ctc.org.uk/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=74806
Bike Forums: First Commute (with the Luxos B, nit U):
http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php/868117-B-amp-M-Luxos-B-First-commute
Luxos U video taken from a recumbent:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I1fJ6ol9KGc
Comprehensive Luxos B test, notice of problems with early U models; Corrected U shipping since April 2013:
http://swhs.home.xs4all.nl/fiets/tests/verlichting/koplampen/BM_luxos/index_en.html
YACF Review with lots of photos and commentary on mounting, hardware, and troubleshooting, starting at the page linked below:
http://yacf.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=63183.100
There are some useful cautions -- and apparently a revised brochure insert included -- that warn of switch placement to prevent wetting, and advising to make sure the switch jack is fully plugged in in wet conditions else the rubber cover must block the jack to prevent water ingress:
https://yacf.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=63183.msg1469114#msg1469114
I hadn't realized the speed at which the panorama near-light is switched on can be programmed fairly easily to meet individual needs and preferences -- yay!
Asmentioned above, it apparently won't charge in the wet...but that isn't unusual; neither will/should The Tout Terrain The Plug2. In any case, most device USB ports are not waterproofed, so it would be wise to charge devices under cover in a waterproof handlebar bag -- with any dyno-charger.
Another review wrt charging:
Original German: http://www.teltarif.de/lumotec-iq2-luxos-u-test-usb-handy-laden/news/50760.html
GoogleTranslated to English: http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=de&tl=en&prev=_t&ie=UTF8&eotf=1&u=http://www.teltarif.de/lumotec-iq2-luxos-u-test-usb-handy-laden/news/50760.htm
...and here (German): http://www.rad-forum.de/showflat/Number/900170/page/7
GoogleTranslated to English: http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=de&tl=en&prev=_t&ie=UTF-8&eotf=1&u=http://www.rad-forum.de/showflat/Number/900170/page/7
Actual light dimensions and comparison to Cyo: http://oceanaircycles.com/2013/05/21/busch-muller-luxos-and-lumotec-cyo-comparison/
User review (snowy conditions).
German: http://bike-eldorado.blogspot.com/2013/04/praxistest-mit-dem-neuen-b-luxos-u.html
Google-Translated to English: http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=de&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fbike-eldorado.blogspot.com%2F2013%2F04%2Fpraxistest-mit-dem-neuen-b-luxos-u.html&act=url
User reviews for randonneuring, with GPS and more: https://groups.google.com/forum/?fromgroups#!topic/randon/Dxr_nrjyfz8
Comments section here (on blog of member Aushiker): http://aushiker.com/busch-muller-lumotec-iq2/
Recumbent use with water entry: http://www.bentrideronline.com/messageboard/showthread.php?t=97474
Rando water fail on long brevet: http://positivo-espresso.blogspot.com/2013/01/led-headlight-reviews.html
Size comparo with Cyo, mounting: http://www.flickr.com/photos/13469967@N02/with/8640320529/
New install and user review by Rivendell Groups member: http://tinyurl.com/oyfghnw
According to the manual...
The light can deliver a maximum of 1A USB power (when drawing on the cache battery).
The cache battery provides constant power when going slowly or stopping -- unless it is exhausted.
If/when the cache battery's power drops too low, then USB charging stops while the cache battery charges.
B&M recommend riding for a few minutes before using the USB charger; this allows the cache battery to accumulate a charge of its own before a device is plugged in for charging. It requires about 10 minutes' riding at 15 km/h with the lights off and no USB device connected to fully (pre)charge the cache battery.
Once the cache battery is fully charged (and with the lights off), there is enough capacity to charge a device for about 4 minutes while at a standstill.
If charging is attempted with the light on, charging is limited to 100mAh; this limit is lifted if the light is turned off so all available power can be directed to charging.If one insists on charging while the lights are running, the light will be dimmed down to 20lux before disabling USB power.
For a limited time you can use the USB charger while having the light on, depending on speed, dynamo quality, and power consumption by your device. This is done so that some lighting remains available for safety/visibility, preferred over charging.
Hope this helps. For me, I think I'll wait awhile. I'm so very much attracted to the big, wide, adaptive beam...but leery of reported hot spots, and there seem to be some wet-weather and other reliability issues I'd like to see banished before I commit. I got kinda burned when B&M changed the Cyo's perfect beam to something less than that by the time I purchased. People who saw the first iteration are still screaming at the second.
Best,
Dan. (...who is very much looking forward to our own Forum members' reports)
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Massive thanks for a massively useful post, Dan. I think I'll recklessly follow your example and wait for BUMM to solve some of those problems. Problem is, though, that the last time some folk waited for the CYO to be "improved", the "improvement" was the hotspot that bothers you. This may be as good as it gets. The charging isn't a big deal for me, but the panaramic light would solve a problem that I've long excoriated BUMM for, so I wish they would hurry up with their solutions. For those new here, the reason I want the pano light is that I ride in narrow lanes with broken edges and the ditch right beside the edge of road, so you can fall over the broken verge onto the road if you're lucky, or you can fall into a ditch full of freezing water, if you ride too fast for lamps that cast too narrow a beam, which includes all earlier BUMM lamps.
Andre Jute
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You're welcome, Andre; I'm continuing to watch this closely as well.
I know what you mean about narrow beams, *and* far beyond the practical aspects of being able to see, there's a fatigue factor as well. When you're riding through the night -- overnight -- and night after night, there's something awfully tiring and a little surreal about riding in what seems to be a tunnel. If the beam is diffuse and very, very wide as well as long, it seems less onerous and much more natural. On a recent 400K ride last year, I found myself riding in a total of 13 hours of darkness (started late and rode through the second half of the first night, then the fist half of the second night). Most of this was on heavily tree-lined roads and forest on moonless nights and it was stygian. What gets to me after awhile is the light becomes my ground plane, and when I bank into a corner, the world tilts with me and I kept getting the sense I might "auger in". Hitting a fist-size rock in an active rockslide put me down, and it is really disturbing to brace for an impact when you have no idea where or how far away the ground is (my elbow and knee informed me shortly).
Just like you, I'm still awaiting the grail of lights. Hmm. Perhaps a non-USB version of the Luxos U (not B) with no cache battery and a supercap for standlight duties. Couple that with a Tout Terrain The Plug2 and a user-replaceable cache battery, and it would come awfully close.
One of the things that strikes me about such things (and all innovative bike-electrickery) is the expense. In one of the links above, a German rider opined the Luxos' actual production costs likely hover around 15Euro, with 20Euro if you count development and molding costs to be amortized, making for profit margins exceeding Apple's. Certainly, bespoke bike-intended cache batteries cost a fortune compared to near-identical general-use items from the Far East. My recently purchased 2200mAh booster/cache battery was less than USD$8 postpaid -- and works beautifully riding in my HB bag as a buffer between The Plug2 and my GPS or phone. Part of what we are seeing is pricing as perceived value -- if some component or product costs more, it must be better, right? As bike charging becomes more commonplace, we should see a general reduction in prices due to competition. Right now, it is still a niche market but heading more mainstream by the day -- yay!
Best,
Dan. (...who still really, really wants the Luxos of his dreams)
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I don't have much hope of BUMM prices ever becoming reasonable, Dan, but generally I buy my BUMM lights from Ebay or German discounters, and pay about half recommended retail. That's still pretty steep, when you consider where BUMM prices start. But I'm too scarred to run out like a fashion victim and buy another BUMM lamp just because it is new. The only lamp I've ever bought from them which gave unalloyed satisfaction was the Line Plus rear lamp. Even the first series Cyo, while clearly marking the maturity of bike lamps, has the serious problem of too narrow a beam, and not enough overspill to the top for necessary functions such as recognizing road signs and and low-flying branches.
Andre Jute