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Community => Member's Gallery => Topic started by: Danneaux on August 22, 2012, 11:30:15 PM

Title: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: Danneaux on August 22, 2012, 11:30:15 PM
Hi All!

My new Nomad arrived last week, and I have been busy assembling and customizing and testing it since. I can safely say there is no bike on the planet that is better designed, assembled, or packed, and it arrived in absolutely *perfect* condition. Thorn did a magnificent job on it, and I am thrilled and completely delighted by their efforts. A lot of care went into it, and it truly shows.

Though I have not yet taken it on a fully-loaded tour, it has performed brilliantly in my test runs, even fully-loaded over a lumpy, dried-plowed field several streets away. It has handled dirt, grass, rocks, very coarse poured gravel, and pavement with aplomb. I have every reason think it will be as brilliant on-tour as it is now.

Unlike the "Danneaux's Sherpa" thread, which started with the bike a bit better than 99% "there", "Danneaux's Nomad" will be a journey to an end...showing the bike from beginning to full evolution. I hope you'll enjoy seeing the process as I make the bike truly my own and style and customize it to my needs -- and then use it. As you read and follow along, please remember our bicycles reflect our personal needs. What works for me might well not work for you, and my needs are somewhat specialized for extended, solo, self-supported journeys across desert regions where I must haul a lot of water and food through wilderness. My Nomad will probably look a bit "strange" compared to others, but it is the most beautiful thing in the world to me because it meets my requirements.

Though "different" from others' Nomads in many ways, perhaps some of my kit will find application to your own needs. If so, great; I'd love to hear about it, as well as your thoughts and ideas. The Forum is a wonderful hive of collected wisdom and ideas, so if I miss something, I can count on you all to chime in, helpful as always. My thanks in advance!

Let's plunge in, shall we?

Choosing a size by first choosing a handlebar
Andy Blance was ever so kind to work directly with me on every spec of the bike, and I truly appreciate his help in getting the correct size and in consulting with me on basic specs. Though we sometimes differed in our views, he worked as a colleague to find the best solution for me, with my needs and preferences respectfully in mind, and Robin reviewing the specs as well. I could not have asked for better.

Andy strongly prefers straight or comfort handlebars, and has specified them now on each of his bicycles for very good reasons; they simply work best for him, and they provide a lot of leverage with a full touring load. With bar-ends, they very closely mimic the road cyclist's most common "on the hoods" riding position, and they simplify shifter options. One can even segue from "straight" (15) handlebars to riser or "comfort" handlebars to accommodate changes with age and time. Straight 'bars allow use with a longer frame; in turn, that longer front-center aids stability. They're really a versatile option, and I can see why they have become so popular with the majority of cyclists.

I, however, have found I must go with drops. Old injuries are quickly aggravated unless my palms face each other when riding, and straight 'bars with bar-ends just didn't quite work. I tried a neighbor's setup that was as close as possible to what I would need, and...no. Comfort aside, part of it is preference. I've ridden on- and off-road with drops exclusively for over 35 years, and they're familiar. I love riding on the hoods for most of the time where I can always cover the brake levers, and going to the drops for headwinds. There's 6 separate hand positions on drops, and I can fit interrupter levers for use on the tops when I really need to get my weight back over the saddle for steep descents on goat tracks and trails. I realize drop handlebars are a dying preference among trekkers and tourists worldwide, and I may face more limited options in future (i.e. Tektro/Cane Creek are at present the only vendor of truly v-brake compatible levers), but they're great for now, and I do have the option of going to straight 'bars and bar-ends later, or even comfort 'bars, provided I fit a longer stem.

So, even facing some compromises, it was drops for me. Deciding on the handlebars provided the foundation on which I could build.

Frame size
Once I went with drops, then I could choose a frame size. Standing at 5'11"/180cm with average proportions, there were two possible candidates -- a 565M and a 590M. Andy recommended the 590M, and I'm glad he did; it is a perfect fit. The 565M would have been a bit small for me and my intended use. By going with a "Medium" (M) frame, I picked up a bit more load capacity, thanks to the stiffness of shorter tubes.

To make the 590M Nomad work with drops, I needed a much shorter than usual stem. The 560M Sherpa used a 110mm stem, but had a shorter top tube. An 80mm would have been "perfect" with the Nomad's longer top tube with the levers in the usual position, but Andy got me to nearly the same place with a 90mm stem by moving the levers higher on the handlebars, and I made up any difference by adding a 12mm spacer, which also moved the bars back a bit, thanks to the head angle. The levers are in the same position on the 'bars as the ones on my favorite randonneur bike -- which also uses an 80mm stem extension; ideal.

The result is identical to my other road frames with similar length top tubes that are also fitted with 80mm stems.  The tops of the handlebars are level with the saddle as is my preference, and reach is good. Check and done.

Color
Trying to duplicate the Sherpa as much as possible, I again chose matte black over a brighter color for the same reasons:

= Ideal for stealth camping, as the bike shows up less. The rest of my camping-gear is inconspicuous, and it helps the bike is too.

= Timeless and pretty well fashion-proof. It is a common color among work-bikes worldwide.

= Lower theft potential locally, where eye-catching bikes are stolen in the wink of an eye.

= Very easy to touch-up invisibly if needed, so the bike will remain fresh-looking and rust-free for decades to come.

Componentry
I went with pretty basic spec for the most part, with a couple exceptions:

= 44cm drop handlebars, as noted above.

= Plain (non-CSS) Rigida Andra rims for their proven wet-weather braking. I often have to make steep descents in the rain as I ride from the Valley over the mountain ranges that separate me from the High Desert, and I have been so very pleased with the braking provided by plain Andras and Kool-Stop Salmon-colored brake pads. I have found both pads and rims to last a very long time -- I  still have a set of bonded, Mathauser-branded Kool-Stop salmons from the early 1980s with well over 28,000mi/45,000km on them that work great on the original rims.

= As on Sherpa, a long-layback seatpost to get the proper saddle-BB relationship.

= My preferred 170mm crankarms...in a Deore HollowTech II external-bearing crankset. I really like the stiffness and easy field-maintenance and bearing replacement of Shimano's HollowTech II crankset...even knowing its limitations. Shimano's basic design (cribbed from Roger Durham's original Bullseye tubular cr-mo design) is fine; what really kills it for long-distance use are the bearings. They are small in size, small in number, poorly sealed, and supported outside the BB shell in soft alu cups. Having surveyed the market and end-user reviews for a number of years, I believe the ultimate cure is a Phil Wood Outboard-Bearing Bottom Bracket. I snagged one on sale at a 36% off, put it away, and will install it around the 1,200mi/1930km mark when HollowTechs start to show problems in severe use. The Phil unit uses plastic liners on the inner bearing races so if one does seize, it won't immediately scar the spindle, unlike the majority of separate bearings that can be pressed into the original Shimano cups. The Phil cups are heavy, being milled from a billet of stainless steel, and the bearings are of very high quality, shielded nicely, and packed with my preferred Phil waterproof grease...the only grease I found to withstand the corrosive effects of Mt. St. Helens' volcanic ash. The Phil seems to hold up a bit better in long-term use than the Chris King injectable unit, so Phil it is. Time will tell.

= After a lot of thought, I went with Andy's common recommendation of 40x17 gearing. This provides the lowest "Rohloff-approved" combination with a physically larger chainring and cog. This is not the even-even combo endorsed by Sheldon Brown, nor is it the odd-odd combo increasingly endorsed by high-end makers such as Idworx, but it should get the job done and wear well. Yes, it limits my use of a chaincase such as the Hebie Chainglider, but if worse comes to worst, either the chainring or cog can be changed.

= I chose a Thorn pie-plate/bash-guard style chainring protector instead of a Chainglider out of concern for the effects of alkali dust in the desert. It is corrosive, talc-fine, and gets in everywhere. This guard is open, the chain can be cleaned and re-oiled, and my leg is protected from grease that would soon soil my sleeping bag and the 'ring is shielded from the far more remote possibility of a rock-strike.

= I decided to go with the black-anodized Rohloff hub to deter corrosion in the alkali dust I frequent, and spec'd the disc option to future-proof the hub. The frame already has a disc-mounting tab, so this seemed a good time to specify a hub to match, keeping my options open.

= I chose the standard Deore M590 v-brakes as simple and reliable for my needs. I have seen some examples of higher models develop play in their parallelogram linkage that led to squeal, and the basic model serves my needs well with powerful, reliable braking so long as I use the Kool-Stop Salmon/plain alu rim combo.

= I spec'd the new SON28 dynohub with the "ball-shape" for my power-generating needs. Compared to the Klassik, it does seem to have less drag, and power output is the same or very nearly so, unlike the similar-looking but lower-output Deluxe model. The newer hub is a bit lighter, and the smaller shell has less volume to be affected by changes in temperature. Again, I chose black-anodized to resist the corrosive effects of alkali playa dust in the desert.

= I went with the same Brooks B.17 saddle that I used on Sherpa. It is comfortable, proven in my use, and my favorite touring saddle. Black, of course.

= I love SKS P55 mudguards (known to me as "fenders") because they catch so much of what would otherwise be flung by the tires onto me, the bike, components, and gear. Because of them, everything lasts longer and looks nicer. Like helmets, these are a personal choice and preference, but fit my requirements well. The can be removed and carried when I unexpectedly encounter wet playa that would soon pack the wheels to stoppage if they remained in place. I chose the P55 model to nicely cover my 26x2.0 Schwalbe Dureme tires, a model I have found to be a true all-rounder for my on- and off-road use.

= The Rohloff shifter presented a special problem with drop handlebars, and I ended up choosing the traditional Rohloff shifter, mounted on a T-bar. The execution, however, is very different from what is generally seen. I owe my friend Andre Jute a nod here, as he reviewed my original placement and said, "You've got it all wrong, Dan" -- and he was absolutely correct! The new placement is perfect for my needs, and I'll address it in detail later. I think the execution cost me a few gray cells, but it was well worth the effort. I have another idea for placement that might work even better for others, yet remain as simple, reliable, and accessible. I decided against the Gilles Berthoud shifter after considerable research into how I turn doorknobs (yes, really!), and reports by Dutch friends in the industry. I am not casting aspersions against Berthoud's shifter, it is simply another case of choosing the product best-suited to my special requirements.

So, here you have it -- Installment One, The Arrival.

All the best,

Dan.
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: JimK on August 22, 2012, 11:39:33 PM
Looking beautiful, Dan! Thanks for sharing!

Our teenager moves into his college dorm tomorrow. Yesterday he and I rode down to the campus:

http://www.mapmyride.com/routes/view/125715929

That's a plenty good ride for me at this point. But my Nomad MkII remains just totally comfortable. I hope yours enables you to pursue all your adventures & gives you solid support the whole way!
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: Danneaux on August 22, 2012, 11:49:55 PM
Thanks, Jim! I appreciate your feedback, especially since your own Nomad looks so nice!

Big Changes in your family, and it will take some adjustment, I'm sure. Still, it appears you'll be getting a pretty nice bike ride out of any visits -- right at a Metric Century! A good future training run, I think, and maybe a way to pick up a riding partner (your sweetheart's son) for at least half the ride, if you each return home alone.

I have solved my pump-fitting problem. I had thought I might need to find a mini-pump, since there was really no place on the Nomad's frame to fit my Zefal HPX2; The Nomad has a shorter seat tube due to the greater slope of the top tube.

So...I put a little more thought into it.

Unlike the Sherpa's fastback seatstays, the Nomad has its stays more widely spaced, and the pump could fit between.

Of course, there was the problem of how best to secure it, and that's where Zefal came to the rescue once again with a Doohicki Plus for the bottom, and a zytel nylon worm-drive peg at the top, attached to the seatpost. It works a treat, and the pump is so secure I cannot imagine a situation where it could possibly hop out (the little "wings" on the head end are securely held in the Doohicki Plus' slots). The pump fully clears the frame and can be easily extracted from above or from below.

Best of all, I get to use the pump I already had -- a nice, longish frame pump that is reliable and does the job quickly.

Solved!

Best,

Dan.
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: Danneaux on August 23, 2012, 01:03:54 AM
Hi All!

Next on my list of customizations was to find the Rohloff shifter placement "perfect" for my needs.

I agonized about Rohloff shifter location as I talked with Andy about my Nomad. I finally decided a little empirical analysis was in order, and spent a good 40 minutes studying how I open doorknobs. Yes! The neighbors already think I'm nuts, so I had nothing to lose as I reached for various doorknobs and watched very carefully how my hand approached them, how I grasped them, and how I turned them...with doorknob as proxy for Rohloff shifter. As it happens, I very rarely approach a knob in a linear grasp, parallel to the door. Instead, I most often grab it end-on and wrap my fingers around it, turning with pressure from my thumb and first two fingers. After I had a good grasp (sorry) of the situation, I figured I could finalize my shifter choice with Andy. I went for the original Rohloff shifter due to its proven reliability, good weather sealing, ready parts availability, and the rubber cover had the extra bonus of isolating my hand from extreme heat or cold -- Ideal!

I started out with the Rohloff shifter mounted on a 55mm T-bar just above the 105mm T-bar atop the headset. The idea was to get the weight of a handlebar bag as low as possible, yet make the shifter easy to reach. It worked...fine! No problems reaching it, and about the same reach as to a bar-end shifter. It was handy and convenient. Life was good.

The trouble is, I also needed to mount my accessories to the handlebars and stem...and the 90mm stem was not long enough to accept the GPS in the same central location it enjoyed on Sherpa's 110mm stem. And, I needed a place for my Rowi camera clamp so I would have the ideal site for my GoPro video camera, preferably in a place where I could also turn it around to do narrations and "self-interviews".

Since I specified my Nomad Mk 2 with an uncut steerer, I had room to fit another 105mm T-bar atop of the stem so I could use it for the GPS, camera, and any other accessory that needed a place. This worked great, and I sent a photo of the whole rig to my friend Andre Jute, who promptly responded with...
Quote
...You have the Rohloff control on the wrong T-bar. You ride 95% of the time with your hands on the hoods, right? So the gear control should be next to one of your hands so you don't need to disturb your back every time you change gears. I hope those cables haven't been cut too short to try the control higher up.

Annnnnd...Andre was absolutely right! Making it "happen" took some real thought and depended on Andy's foresight to leave the cable just long enough to reach and not be stretched unduly when the front wheel is turned.

As it happened, the head tube angle of the Nomad, combined with the spacers on the steerer, allowed the 105mm T-bar atop the stem to place the Rohloff shifter exactly vertical over my handlebar so I won't ever crack a knee on it. There's plenty of room to reach all 'round the shifter to turn it without pinching my fingers against the handlebar. It works great; thanks, Andre for your suggestion!

I believe the 55mm T-bar would have also worked to mount the Rohloff shifter in this location, but would not have left enough room for the GPS.

I then removed the extra 105mm T-bar and replaced it with the 55mm to hold the handlebar bag just above the headset atop a slim spacer, gaining 50mm of rearward movement and placing the HB bag closer to the steering axis for greater stability. I may need to revert to the other 105mm T-bar for this application once I install my interrupter levers (if the bag rides close enough to rub my fingers). For now, it is perfect. The bike computer and bell/compass would still be visible on the 105mm T-bar, but ahead of the handlebars instead of behind. Lots of angles and sight-lines to keep in mind!

I now have room to attach steerer-mounted bottle cages as before on Sherpa, and the sightlines are right to easily see my bike computer on the left side of the 55mm T-bar and the compass on my bell on the right side (I asked Andy to leave both sides on the 55mm T-bar, rather than cutting the "off" side -- I needed both for mounting accessories).

The result exceeds all my expectations, and is so very easy to use. Nothing interferes with my shifting, and the cables have a nice, clear run to the guides. Nothing is strained when I turn the handlebars lock-to-lock, and I've got a place for everything and everything in its place. The only downside is a rather strange appearance, but the camera mount works perfectly, and I recorded my first "self-interview" as I rode along the other day, then turned the camera forward and to the side, catching all the angles I wanted. The camera mount (when used with a Click-Stand) also serves as a "tripod" for filming Camp Life at the end of the day. Yay!

Another step toward making the Nomad meet my personal needs, and in doing so, several problems solved at once.

For those thinking of a similar setup with a cut steerer, it might be possible to substitute this T-bar for some spacers:
http://www.sjscycles.co.uk/thorn-accessory-bar-t-shaped-1725-mm-extension-45-deg-no-shim-prod28574/
Shown here:
(http://www.sjscycles.co.uk/images/products/large/28574.jpg)In this case, the Rohloff shifter would end up slightly ahead of the handlebars, perhaps just to the inside of the brake hood, depending on stem reach and height combined with spacer placement and head tube angle.

Best,

Dan.
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: Danneaux on August 23, 2012, 01:35:19 AM
Hi All!

My next task on the list was lighting...tail-lighting, to be specific. The Nomad has a higher mount for the headlight than the Sherpa, thanks to the biplane fork crown, so I am thinking seriously of a B&M inverted mount for this location. It is usually intended for the IQ Fly when v-brakes are used, but should work well to maintain the same position for the Cyo hedlight as before. We'll see. I also need to order some taillight wiring from Peter White and some small connectors for the B&M Toplight Line Plus taillight to use with my Dean's micro-connectors and Futaba R/C grommets to feed the wiring through the rear fender as before. See:
http://www.thorncycles.co.uk/forums/index.php?topic=3896.msg17113#msg17113 I think I can refine and modularize the process this go-'round.

Meanwhile, I figured I could mount my taillights to the Thorn EXP rear rack. After some careful measurement and the drilling of one 5.5mm hole, I was able to bolt my Portland Design Works (PDW) Radbot 1000 alongside my B&M Toplight Line Plus.

The taillights both sit below the rack-top to avoid any interference with a load. As per my usual practice, both are refitted with stainless fasteners and vinyl thread caps, the last to prevent snagging a hand or strap when un/loading the bike in the dark while on-tour and to keep the threads clear of alkaline dust.

While the placement is not individually symmetrical, the lot fits evenly within the outlines of the rack bracket and provides a really nice-eye-catching display to the rear. In heavy urban traffic, the Radbot 1000 can be set to solid, slow pulse, or stutter-blink, while the Toplight Line Plus provides a wide, steady reference that does not require batteries for sustained use in more rural areas. The blinky on left is consistent with practice on roads in countries where the drivers keep right.

Best,

Dan.
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: Danneaux on August 23, 2012, 01:59:38 AM
Hi All!

So, what bike would be complete without a Mudguard Mascot?

When I was still attending uni, I came up with the idea that each of my bikes should have a mascot to symbolize some key characteristic. It was silly, but fun. At the time, Robert Schleich company of Germany marketed small rubber animal-shaped toys in large plastic "fishbowls". One reached in, churned around, and picked out the animal you wanted for the princely sum of USD25.

My '89 Miyata 1000LT got a gray wooly mammoth to symbolize determination (and to match the "light metallic smoke" color).

The 1970 Raliegh Gran Sports (white) got a billy goat for stubbornness.

The blue 1983/84 blue Centurion rando bike received the blue bird of happiness. As  rode along -- and depending on circumstances and the mood of the day (and exam results!) I either rode in pursuit of it or caught it outright.

My other bikes have different mascots on their mudguards.

I secured them each with a heated straight pin from below and a drop of beta-Cyanoacrylate from above. Remarkably, no one ever plucked one off while the bikes were parked. The rubber didn't always age well, but a coating of beta-Cyanoacrylate served as a reasonable embalming fluid for keeping them intact and free of any fatal cracks.

A hard-plastic Playmobil raven was just the ticket to continue the tradition on the Thorn Raven Nomad Mk2, so off I went to eBay, PayPal account in hand, and waited the 10 days or so for delivery. The results were just what I wanted, after cutting off the bird's grasping feet (!). As before, the ornament is attached from below, this time using a small flat-headed nail through the mudguard's end-cap from below, and secured with Cyanoacrylate gel both above and below, including the nail head. The bird slips on and off the fender with the end-cap to which it is captive.

Best,

Dan.
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: Danneaux on August 23, 2012, 02:58:15 AM
Hi All!

A little out of sequence, but here's some "first ride" photos (attached, showing the original under-bar shifter setup).

I have achieved my classic, preferred 45 back and arm position atop the brake hoods, and a great knee position. The standover clearance on the compact but correct-sized frame is ideal for my off-road use, when high-bright light often prevents me from seeing I'm stepping off the bike into a pothole...until I do. No problems here!

I have also attached a profile photo showing my position on my favorite rando bike, Sherpa, and the new Nomad Mk2. For all practical purposes, I have the same position and fit on each.

How does it ride?

Like a dream. Actually, like a super-duty road-touring bike -- balanced, stable, carves nicely into corners, yet really heavy-load capable.

It feels like a far lighter bike than it is, with light, agile steering and a nice "tossable" feel. Final expected weight all-up but dry and lacking a touring load should be in the neighborhood of 46lbs/20.8kg when complete and finished -- right in line with what I expected, and about 4lbs/1.8kg more than Sherpa, but with a different rear rack and some small detail changes. For me, the drop handlebars make for an easy comparison. My Burley Rock 'n' Roll tandem is also set up for road use with drops and road slicks, and weighs-in at the same 46lbs and I've done a number of 260km rides on it solo very happily, and expect to the same on the Nomad.

Rohloff impressions (all favorable) will follow in a later post.

By the way, the favorite green jersey commemorates the legendary Wicklow 200, thanks to a good Irish friend.

Best,

Dan.
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: Danneaux on August 23, 2012, 03:02:11 AM
Hi All!

So...what about a name?

I've been thinking about "Oikaze", a Japanese fishing term for "favorable following wind", according to a friend.

Hmm. That sounds like a tailwind to me, and I wouldn't mind always riding one of those!

Probably that wee bit better than Ravin' Raven" ...or... "The Batman Bike" as the neighbor kid calls it.

Best,

Dan.
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: JimK on August 23, 2012, 04:15:05 AM
I really like that solution, the Rohloff shifter on a T-bar *above* your drop bars. Yeah it looks funny, but the real fun of the Rohloff is the easy shifting, and you have it!
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: Relayer on August 23, 2012, 09:20:57 AM
"The Batman Bike" as the neighbor kid calls it.

Love it, the bike and the neighbourhood kid's imagination   :D

Holy T-bars Dan, you're well on your way now.   ;D 
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: jags on August 23, 2012, 11:59:09 AM
The Genius of Dan, have to say you sure can put a bike together ;)
very clever the way you mounted the rohloff shifter ,btw what do you think of the rohloff.
yeah you done it again dan fair play to you, you have the patience of a saint when it comes to building  bikes .
the mascot looks  great  but how did you get it secure superglue  ::)
anyway Dan enjoy every pedal stroke its a fantastic looking bike thats for sure
btw looking good in your green jersey ;)
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: Matt2matt2002 on August 23, 2012, 02:15:05 PM
Great snaps.
So the Roh shifter is on the T bar?
Can we see that in a close up please?
And will you run with a bar bag? If so, where fitted.
Many thanks for all your comments. They are filed away in prep for my own Nomad purchase
Matthew
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: Andre Jute on August 23, 2012, 02:36:15 PM
As it happened, the head tube angle of the Nomad, combined with the spacers on the steerer, allowed the 105mm T-bar atop the stem to place the Rohloff shifter exactly vertical over my handlebar so I won't ever crack a knee on it. There's plenty of room to reach all 'round the shifter to turn it without pinching my fingers against the handlebar. It works great; thanks, Andre for your suggestion!

Happy to help. Remember when I identified as a key reason for recommending Thorn as the place for serious tourers to shop: "Thorn doesn't mind giving the customer the uncut steerer." Everyone chuckled and thought I was making a joke; I wasn't; it's a pressure point in assembling a touring bike (or a well-appointed utility bike) to fit and work just so.

Love your photos, Dan: everything so carefully thought out on your bike, an example.
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: Matt2matt2002 on August 23, 2012, 03:43:11 PM
Great snaps.
So the Roh shifter is on the T bar?
Can we see that in a close up please?
And will you run with a bar bag? If so, where fitted.
Many thanks for all your comments. They are filed away in prep for my own Nomad purchase
Matthew
X

Dosh! Why don't I check things before I fire off questions? Everything answered, many thanks
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: AndrewC on August 23, 2012, 07:19:36 PM
That looks lovely Dan. Nice to hear you had such good service from Thorn.

I'm happy with comfort bars and the shifter in the usual place, but I've seen a couple of Nomad's with drops, mounting the shifter on a T bar, usually below the bars though.

When I got my Nomad the only thing I wasn't happy with was the lack of a proper pump mounting!  I use a Topeak Morph (excellent) in the same position you have your Zefal but am not happy with the velcro mounting, still it's never fallen off!

My Nomad is called Ghengis..... ;D
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: brummie on August 23, 2012, 08:34:54 PM
Another nice Nomad Dan ! Thanks for sharing yours & Andys' thoughts / emails on your recent posts too.
 Incidently what is your 'S' measurement for your saddle height?
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: Danneaux on August 24, 2012, 05:35:09 AM
Hi All!

Thanks very much for your kind comments!  I was out of town and away from online access today, so I'm just now getting a chance to read the comments...

Brummie, my measurements (by the Summer 2011 "older" method) are as follows:

S=937mm/36.9in (distance from top of pedal to top of saddle measured along seat tube with crank inline with seat tube).
R=515mm/20.3in (tip of saddle through centerline of handlebar grips -- straight tops of drop 'bars, in my case).
H=0 (tops of 'bars level with top of saddle).
B=82mm/3.2in (Distance of plumb line behind BB, from saddle; reason for my long layback seatpost to clamp the Brooks in the center of the rails, helping prevent rail fracture on really rough roads).
N=280mm/11.0in (Overall length of my Brooks B.17 saddle)

My other measurements from the build sheet are 1803/880/10. That works out to the following:

1803mm = 71in or 5'11", my height.
880mm = 34.6in, my standover height in (cleated) cycling shoes
10 = my shoe size, which works out to a size 45 Detto Pietro Article 74 cleated cycling shoe

Don't worry if you miss something, Matt; I often develop selective blindness when looking at something that interests me! If you want or need any specific photos or specs, just give a shout.

JimG, the little neighbor kid saw me riding the bike in my black cycling tights when it was chilly the other morning. Now he keeps asking where I keep the cape and mask, and figures they are in the Ortlieb underseat bag. I...eh, I'm not sure I should spoil the dream. I thought about riding by with my black balaclava as well. Thank goodness it isn't the Spiderman Bike. That would be harder to pull off.  ::)

Andrew, the comfort bars look a very good choice indeed! Oh, how I struggled for a way to use that pump; thank goodness I was sent the "wrong" Doohicki on one order...it proved exactly right for this application! Zefal have a solution for you, as well, in the Doodad: http://www.zefal.com/en/other-accessories/146-doodad-.html  It is nearly identical to the TwoFish LockBlock: http://www.twofish.biz/bike.html I think "Ghengis" is a terrific name for your Nomad! Right in keeping with Adventure! I have some plans for the mudguard decorations I think you will really like...stay tuned for updates!

JimK, yes! The Rohloff really *is* the business (and a whole lot of fun)! Lots to tell there in future episodes.

Andre, couldn't have done it without you! And...I wouldn't cut that steerer for anything!

Jags, yes! Super glue is the key to keeping "Mudguard Mascots" in place. That and a straight pin or slim, flat-headed nail through the center of the mascot, also coated with glue. Sure appreciate your support.

All the best,

Dan.
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: il padrone on August 24, 2012, 03:16:49 PM
JimG, the little neighbor kid saw me riding the bike in my black cycling tights when it was chilly the other morning. Now he keeps asking where I keep the cape and mask, and figures they are in the Ortlieb underseat bag. I...eh, I'm not sure I should spoil the dream. I thought about riding by with my black balaclava as well. Thank goodness it isn't the Spiderman Bike. That would be harder to pull off.

Your answer to this conundrum.... from Carradice

(http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3544/3396764251_a0b146b579_z.jpg)
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: Danneaux on August 24, 2012, 03:31:15 PM
Quote
Your answer to this conundrum....
Hahahaha! It surely is, Pete, it surely is!  ;D

All the best,

Dan.
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: janeh on August 26, 2012, 02:26:43 PM
Hello,

What happens to the Sherpa now? How will you decide which one to ride?

Your drop handlebars look like they are tilted quite far upwards. Do you like them like that? I have found that when I do that it's difficult to use the drops. I have now however discovered short reach drops with nice flat tops and rounded shallow drops that I don't have to tilt back as much. My new ones are salsa cowbell. These have drops that stick out a bit, which are nice. The drops sweep back quite far though so I had to chop a bit off the ends to avoid hitting my knees on the bar end shifters!

Best wishes,

Jane
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: Danneaux on August 26, 2012, 07:52:36 PM
Hi Jane!

Nice hearing from you; you've made some good observations and ask great questions!

Tomorrow or the next day, Sherpa will be shipped back to Thorn for analysis to see what might have caused the problem. As Andre mentioned in the thread about it, it is entirely possible we may never know the root cause if it is internal to the tubes or some flaw related to uneven heat-treatment or such that is invisible. Thorn have stood squarely behind their warranty and done the most fantastic job of customer service ever when the completely unforeseen occurred. I have never once heard of a similar problem among Thorns of any model, so it is that much more evidence something was awry with this one sample. It can happen in any production process. So, the question of which to ride will be easy -- the Nomad will be the only one left Stateside.

Yes, my drop handlebars are tilted quite far upwards, but not as much as it would appear! The tops are, in fact, level with the ground, and the bend of the 'bars is such they appear higher when viewed from the side. At 44cm, these are the same width as I use to captain my tandem, but those are Nitto B115 'bars with the bend in the drops parallel to the tops and so look far more conventional in profile even though the tops are also level.  There is a method to my madness on the Nomad...I prefer my back and arms to each be at a 45 angle to the ground while atop the brake hoods, so having the hoods at about the same angle works well for me. That same 45/45 placement also ensures about equal weight on my seat and hands, and works well for me on 17-hour days in the saddle.

Contrary to what one might think (and I would otherwise include myself among the skeptics), the bend of the Zoom anatomic 'bars makes it easy to reach the brake levers from below. When I go to the drops, I usually ride with "knees inside my elbows" and a very flat back in the old roadie tradition. This puts my arms in a position to grab the levers directly from the rear and it all works out.

This is where it all gets more interesting...
I've attached a profile photo of my tandem so you can see what a big difference the handlebar bend makes to the apparent angle and how one approaches the brake levers. On the tandem, the captain's 'bars are 44cm wide (Nitto B115). The drop "return" is roughly parallel to the tops. The tops are parallel to the ground, or very nearly so (camera angle causes some distortion). Now, take a look at the stoker's handlebars. They're a Trek System 6 'bar, 46cm wide (wider so the stoker's hands will clear my bottom when the adjustable stoker stem I milled, mitered, and brazed-together is far-forward; the bike has to accommodate a variety of stokers from small to tall). There's no brake levers for the stoker, just dummy grips to serve as hand rests. The stoker's 'bars are tilted up a wee bit per that day's stoker's preference, but the tops are still pretty close to level with the ground.

Ah! But look at the angle of the stoker's drops compared to the captain's.  They look tilted way upward when, in fact, it is the lower return angle on the drops that is different. This is roughly the situation I face with the Zoom Anatomic handlebars on the Nomad. The hooks (drops) "open" as they progress toward the end of the 'bars...even though the tops are still parallel to the ground.

For another example, look back a few posts at the handlebars on my blue rando bike in profile compared to those on the Sherpa and Nomad:
http://www.thorncycles.co.uk/forums/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4523.0;attach=1909

All have the tops parallel to the ground, and the levers are set up at close to a 45 angle, but the blue rando bike uses Nitto Randonneur handlebars with a really shallow parallel drop, and is 45cm (!) at the ends and (yikes!) only 37cm wide at the brake hoods (these 'bars flare from the hoods to the hooks; no wonder the 44cm anatomic bend of the Zooms seems wide to me!). Still, they "look" more "down" than the Zoom Anatomics on the Sherpa and Nomad.

Whew! It's a wild world when it comes to finding handlebars that will work, and not every 'bar works with every bike. One concern I had with Sherpa and the Nomad related to the sloping top tubes. To prevent the possible tragedy of a dinged top tube in the event of a fall (especially when fully-loaded and on-tour), I wanted the end of the handlebar to clear the top tube at full steering lock. Well, the "open" hook of the Zooms provides just enough clearance so they pass the underside of the top tube -- by a millimeter or so, but they clear.

Jane, you did really well to get the Salsa Cowbells to work for you, and shortening them for use with bar-ends is just part-and-parcel of getting the "right" handlebar for your needs and application. Well done!

Yes, I realize my current setup looks a bit um..."odd"? er, "special"? but it works for me, and surprisingly well. It has surprised me, anyway! I kinda wish it looked more conventional, but I have concluded function trumps all aesthetic concerns when it comes to getting the best tool for my needs. If it causes negative comment from others (as it did yesterday on a longer ride), well...perhaps that will reduce the theft potential.

Good questions! Glad you asked! More are welcome!

All the best,

Dan.
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: janeh on August 27, 2012, 02:00:47 PM
Hello,

Didn't realise the Sherpa was going back. Incidentally my Sherpa has to go back for a re spray soon, as the paint has crumbled in a lot of places on the frame.

I see what you mean about the handlebars. I find it a bit of a nuisance when you have to rotate handlebars like that to get the tops flat. On the Salsa bars, if you put the brakes too high it's hard to reach them when you are on the drops. I am usually not too bothered if I can use the drops, but when I am pulling the tag along I need good brakes so the drops are better.

I find the Salsa bars really comfortable, but if paths get a bit rough I think having drops is not ideal when pulling the tag along (and when riding alone but not as bad!). Having them wider may help (they are 42cm wide), but I get sore shoulders if they are too wide.

Loving your excellent grammar and spelling and I apologise for not capitalising Salsa Cowbell!

Best wishes,

Jane
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: swc7916 on August 27, 2012, 03:10:31 PM
I see that you know the bungee cord trick to keep the toe clips upright!
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: sg37409 on August 27, 2012, 04:55:31 PM
Nice. Its always good to see a different take on the standard format of handlebar layout.  Thought you might even have been tempted by the 2 handlebar approach that sheldon brown tried. (http://sheldonbrown.com/org/thorn/index.html)

Did you get the tandem red enough for your liking ?  :)
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: Danneaux on August 27, 2012, 05:41:06 PM
Quote
Did you get the tandem red enough for your liking ?

Um...no. Some spilled over and got the car.  ::)

All the best,

Dan. (Non-Thorn tandem pics for handlebar-illustrative purposes only, as this is the Thorn Forum. This brand of tandem dates from 1989 and is no longer made and so does not compete with Thorn's tandems)
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: Danneaux on September 03, 2012, 11:35:03 PM
Hi All!

Some of you have asked if it is still possible for me to get a classic roadie's flat-back, "knees-inside-the-elbows" position on the Nomad Mk2 with the 'bars and levers placed so high.

Yes. See photo below.

I can hold this position for a good 100km at a time into headwinds, and have done most of my touring along the Netherlands' North Sea into strong headwinds using the same position on my old Miyata 1000LT and on my rando bike stateside during my 300-400km rides when headwinds became problematic.

Contrast this to my more relaxed touring position here:
http://www.thorncycles.co.uk/forums/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4523.0;attach=1889
...and here...
http://www.thorncycles.co.uk/forums/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4523.0;attach=1909

It is as comfortable in this low position on the Nomad as it is on the other bikes, and I usually do so with straight wrists and hands set just a smidge higher, unlike in this photo (getting good cycling profile shots is a trial-and-error process and I wasn't fully into position here).

So, for those wondering, it is indeed possible to get a full range of road positions from relaxed touring to go-fast with drop handlebars on a Nomad Mk2. No too far off the position taken by Robert "Pineapple Bob" Kurosawa in the 1991 Bridgestone catalog (pg. 31).

Best,

Dan.
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: Danneaux on September 04, 2012, 02:01:31 AM
Hi All!

It is harvest time here in Oregon's southern Willamette Valley, and the days are just lovely -- cool, crisp nights with temps as low as 41F/5C and daytime highs of 81F/27C with lots of sunshine and a cool undercurrent that keeps it from feeling too hot. The farmers are putting up their hay, and I can't think of a better time to get out and make the rounds of the farm stalls to buy fresh sweet corn, green beans, cucumbers, and watermelon. The very best of "summer", right between one's teeth!

Of course, the best way to go is on a bicycle, so I took the Nomad out and we had a grand time. Attached is a photo of him posed in a farmer's field, next to a stack of hay bales.  Being very quiet, I could hear the little field mice in the bales and so could the large hawk perched atop the stack; I saw him as I was leaving. Probably a good idea for the little mice to stay snug in the straw for now.

Best,

Dan.
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: Danneaux on September 04, 2012, 03:48:49 AM
Hi All!

This was the long Labor Day weekend here in the States, and this is typically regarded as the Last Hurrah for summer. This week, school will start, and life changes -- though the calendar says it is still awhile until Fall, it is the de factor end of summer as a time for vacations and holidays for most people.

It was also a weekend of labor for me. In between taking down much of an overgrown pear tree using a hand chain saw (a chainsaw chain, and a pair of handles...touring training!), I did some work on the Nomad.

On thing I did was apply the Tuareg nomad logo on the rear fender, done in black Scotchlite reflective tape. It looks black -- like the fender -- until it is struck by car headlights or sunlight. Then, it reflects the source light and glows gold in color. The symbol is used by my ADV club and is also the official logo of the old Paris-Dakar car and motorcycle race (rally-raid) across the desert. When terrorism forced a change of venue to Argentina and Chile, the logo came along with the race. The Tuareg are regarded worldwide as the definitive desert nomads, and the logo showing the Tuaref in his Tagelmust veil is intended as a respectful homage to the Tuareg people and their nomadic lifestyle. These are the Blue People of the desert, so-called because the indigo used to dye their veils often turns their skin blue as well -- sometimes permanently.

It seemed appropriate where the bike is a Nomad and will spend so much time rambling around the desert with me.

The logo is a stylized representation and if you look carefully, it helps spell the bike's official name in pictograms: Thorn (head badge), Raven (the Playmobil toy on the front fender) Nomad (Tuareg decal on the rear fender) -- Thorn-Raven-Nomad.

The Tuareg matches the embroidered patch that will go on my rear pannier. I have found it very helpful to mark the rear side of my bags (rear, so brush won't tear the patches) so I can orient them quickly on the racks and so I can identify what is in them (all the patches are different, but the bags are identical and can go on the wrong way if I don't have them marked in some manner).

I don't sew the patches, as the needle holes could cause leaks. Instead, I use SeamGrip to glue them on. SeamGrip is really strong and durable; I just clamp the patches in place overnight to hold them while the glue cures.

I got a bit more done, and will cover that in the next installment.

Best,

Dan.
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: Danneaux on September 04, 2012, 04:28:46 AM
Hi All!

The busy weekend of Nomad refinement continued with a task I've put off long enough...I finally got around to using an acrylic paint pen to put my name on all my panniers and handlebar bag. The paint pen is a bit like a felt-tip marker, but filled with acrylic paint instead of ink, and it dries to a permanent finish.

I felt a little like I was starting the first day of kindergarten, when my mother put my name in my jacket so it would not get lost, but it is a really good idea to do this with bicycle bags. I have read several stories where people were traveling in some other country or other when someone stole their bags. When they found them, a police officer could not compel the thief to open the bags so the contents could be identified (apparently possession was considered 9/10th of the law). If your name is on the outside of the bag, then the thief would have a harder time explaining it and proof of ownership would be very clear, making it easier for the police to return the stolen items. At the same time, I don't always want to advertise who I am to the whole world while traveling, so it made sense to put my
name on the wheel side, where it can be seen if needed, but won't be noticed by a casual passerby. The handlebar bag is labeled on the underside.

I was concerned it would not turn out neatly, but it came out fine. It was a challenge to get them to all look the same, and the
paint had to be built up in three applications, layer by layer.

I also added a second stabilizer fin to the front bags so they match the rear panniers. These really make a difference in reducing vibration, and now the bags pretty much lock onto the racks. I also use compression straps on each pannier. The rear bags have a second set of mounting hooks because they weigh more, and also because it is a handy place to store them for emergency use in case I fall and one breaks or gets ripped off its mounts. A positive side-effect of the double fins and hooks is it would be harder to steal the bags, and it is only a tiny bit less convenient for me to mount and remove them, so it is working out well. It added very little weight.

I drilled-out the rivets holding the original SKS "flip" mudflap at the end of the front fender and attached the shorter of my two Buddy Flaps with aluminum rivets and backing plates. This will go far toward preventing mud, dust, and dirt from splashing onto my feet and the crankset. It is flexible, 3mm thick vinyl and will not break or damage the fender - it bends easily if it strikes an obstacle. 

I am thinking seriously of putting a rear fender on the front and cutting off the front of it inline with the diagonal stay on my Low-Loader front rack. It would greatly help in wet winter weather, and would add very little weight. I did this on one of my Centurions and could not believe how much drier I was! The current SKS Nomad fender ends at 90, and when it is wet, the water shoots straight ahead...and then I ride directly into it. If the fender curves downward in front, the water is channeled downward as well, and drips *down* off the end and is not blown back on me as directly. The longer fender allows the water to lose a little velocity by the time it exits, too. Everything stays cleaner, including the bags. I have attached a photo of my 1980 Centurion ProTour so you can see what I am considering for the Nomad.  Yes, it looks a little strange, but all the top custom-made French touring bikes of the 1940s, 1950s, and 1960s, by Alex Singer and Rene Herse had similar fenders (mudguards) for this very reason -- they worked so much better!

I am in the early stages in pondering this, but I think it can be made to look nice. It will require another rear fender and stays and an extra bridge and fender stay to attach to the corner of the front racks using slightly longer bolts.

Best,

Dan.
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: Danneaux on September 04, 2012, 04:42:53 AM
Hi All!

Last project of this long weekend was installing the Planet Bike Protege 9.0 bike computer on the same 55mm T-bar that carries the handlebar bag mount.

I very much wanted the installation to look "clean" and neat, because all the wires and cable on the Nomad already look very trim and tidy, thanks to Andy Blance's frequent cable guides.

The thing that gave me the most trouble was the sensor. It needed to be within 25mm-50mm of the hub axle, but the brazed-on boss for the fender mount was in the way. Also, the sensor is supposed to be 1-2mm from the magnet, and I think I tried every combination imaginable to achieve the needed clearances. After looking closely at the wheel, I decided to mount the magnet on a spoke that crossed "under" the others, and that exactly provided the needed clearance. I had hoped to mount the sensor on the backside of the fork to protect it from impacts, but this wasn't possible due to interferene with the fender braze-on.  The sensor is pretty well sheltered from harm by the Low-Loader front racks and the panniers. I ran the cable along the inside of the fork and behind the brake bosses, then secured it just below the crown and "jumped the gap" to the front brake cable, fastening it with three cable ties before "jumping back" to the T-bar where I mounted the computer.

The sightlines are just right so I can simply look down and get an unobstructed view of the computer andit is nice to have it a little farther away so it remains clear despite presbyopia. Because this computer has no buttons, I don't have to worry about being able to reach them (the case slides ahead in its mount to change modes or reset data). This computer has been perfect for my needs except it calculates average speeds on a 10-hour base. Beyond 10 hours, the computer still works and records distance, but shows an error for average speed. Something to keep in mind if you're considering the PB Protege 9.0. I have learned to live with this flaw since the rest of the computer works so well for me otherwise.

The blank space to the left of the SkyMounti on the uppermost T-bar is reserved for the camera clamp with tilt-pan head that holds the GoPro for forward, angled, and turn-back interview-mode video capture.

Best,

Dan.
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: Danneaux on September 05, 2012, 01:44:52 AM
Hi All!

A short video of my packing trials in the field near my home:
http://youtu.be/5paMMj3oHo8

Description:
"Thorn Nomad Mk2 with 60kg load climbs and descends 17% slope with ease in Gear 3 (40x17 Rohloff gearing, so 21.8 gear-inches with Schwalbe Dureme 26 x 2.0 tires). Surface was loose gravel, dirt, and dried grass interspersed with large rocks and sun-dried tractor ruts from last Spring's mowing. 16.5 liters of water aboard for desert travel, and several days' food stores".

This video shows just a couple runs up the slope to the field; I spent the better part of an hour trying different load configurations and riding through the field on the bike and having a wonderful time with what I'd consider my maximum load in most cases; usual touring load would be about half that. The thing climbs like a goat, and I am astonished it was no problem to ascend the short, steep slope in Gear 3 (I still had two lower gears available). Traction was no problem with the Duremes, and they provided penty of comfort at Andy Blance's recommended maximum pressures (45/50psi, 3.1/3.4bar F/R); I could well have gone slightly lower with no problems and even greater comfort if desired.

Best,

Dan.
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: JimK on September 05, 2012, 02:26:18 AM
Ah, that is really nice, to see that bike at work! The video does a nice job of showing off the bike's capabilities.

Do you expect to get it out on any kind of tour this year? When does the snow close the high passes?
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: Danneaux on September 05, 2012, 04:58:04 AM
Hi Jim! Good to hear from you, as always!

It has been a lot of fun to kit the bike out and test it in various configurations, and I am really surprised (in the most pleasant of ways) at how capable it is in rough conditions, even (especially!) fully-loaded.

I am beginning to wonder if the Rohloff has some torque-multiplication effect -- it just seems as if I am pulling higher low-gears than the comparable numbers in a derailleur bike would indicate.  I know I did that same circuit on Sherpa, and it was a real slog up that little hill to the level of the field -- even in my lowest gear at the time -- 17 or 18 gear-inches, depending on the cassette used. I was doing all this in a much higher gear today. Rohloff needs to up their ad campaign a few notches: "Buy a Rohloff, ride stronger!"

I have passed the window of opportunity for taking a really long multi-month tour (work and other commitments), but very much look forward to some shorter ventures to sort the bike out for next year's Big Tours. No matter how carefully I prepare a bicycle, actually taking it on-tour results in some changes afterwards to make it even better. The field-testing always helps. 

Ideally, I'd like to head south-southeast of town into the Calapooya Mountains, perhaps over to Lookout Point Reservoir, then up into the alpine regions on the slopes of Diamond Peak...past the single-track to Crescent Lake and on to Lake Timponagas via Emigrant Pass, then back. The Coast Range would be wonderful, too. A favorite route there is to go west-northwest to Monroe, then Alsea Falls, and way on up Lobster Valley to Cannibal Mountain, dropping down to Five Rivers and on into Yachats on the Coast via the old Yachats River Road. From there, a good 92-mile day down the coast to Reedsport and in to Vincent Creek Guard Station before climbing the double-summit Wolf Creek Pass back to Crow and then on home to Eugene. It's a lovely ride and despite hunting season, there's a really good chance I'd see deer, Roosevelt elk, and perhaps some bear along the way.

I just love getting out in the woods, and I need to scout a new cross-country approach over the Cascades. I've attached a photo (below) showing one of my camps as I crossed through trackless forest east of Salt Creek and summited at Willamette Pass. It is just so nice to get out on a bike where one wouldn't expect loaded touring bikes to go. There can be a lot of deadfall timber after storms, and this is where I expect the Nomad's Rohloff to really shine. In the camp photo below, I used a derailleur bike with 700x32C tires and had to watch to make sure the rear derailleur didn't suck up a twig or branch that would cause damage to the mech or hanger. The Rohloff's chain is as high as it would be on a Fixie and there's no der cage and hanger, so the danger should be reduced accordingly. The 26x2.0 tires should help also, though I never really had any problems picking my way through such things on road slicks.

Jim, this has been an odd year for weather here'bouts. The bulk of summer was unsually cool, then the hot weather struck for a couple weeks, and now there's an undercurrent of Fall to the winds and breezes and the nights are colder. It has been in the 80sF/28C during the day, but dipping into the very low 40sF/5C at night. I think we're going to have a early Fall; the trees are changing color, and the leaves on some have been falling over the last month. When I eat dinner outside at the little glass-topped table on my back patio, more and more Canada Geese are flying overhead, low and honking. Again, we could have a very nice October; it will depend!  Snows have closed the Old Willamette Pass to traffic as early as Labor Day in past years, though it is usually on or near November 1st ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oregon_Route_242 ).

The other highway-based Cascade passes stay open pretty much year-'round thanks to 24-hour plowing, but the plowed roads are too narrow -- no shoulders and heavy truck traffic with frozen hummocks at the edges -- and too strewn with traction sand to safely travel by bike at those times. The wilderness passes are likely to be open till November 1st or so, but there is still some snow in isolated pockets on the passes now.

I can pretty well count on running into patches of snow in mid-summer as well on some of the crossings, but it is usually pretty patchy and not too deep ("rotten snow").  In the last couple photos below, taken several years ago, you can see there's still quite a lot of snow atop Mckenzie Pass and the Lava Beds still remaining about this time of year, so -- yes -- I'll definitely pack the woolies if I go for altitude.

Just hoping things will work out so I can take some several-nights-long tours here before the weather really breaks toward winter.

Fingers crossed!

All the best,

Dan.
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: Danneaux on September 08, 2012, 07:31:49 AM
Hi All!

Today was a lovely day here in the Willamette Valley, with blue skies, sunshine, and temps of 91F/33C, so I took the Nomad up in to the Coast Range to one of my favorite places -- Alsea Falls -- and then on to the little town of Alsea far below it on the coast side of the mountains -- for a round trip of 111mi/179km. Thanks to the recent spate of hot weather at the end of summer, the Falls were only about 1/4 their wintertime volume; down to a trickle. Speaking of water...I sure go through a lot of it. 4.5 liters for this trip, and getting resupplied at Alsea Falls was a bit tricky. I didn't have my SteriPen, chemical pills, or a stove to treat/boil water from the streams or creeks, and the old crank-pump at the picnic area was chained shut by the rangers in anticipation of freezing weather. I realize they are trying to be foresighted, but Labor day was just this last weekend, and people still like to go into the forest -- hunters, especially, and deer hunting season is nearly upon us. Here in the States, Labor Day marks the de factor end of summer, as kids are due in school almost immediately after. A lot of recreational sites just shut down right after, in anticipation of winter. I must remember to toss in the SteriPen if I am to get water on future rides in the woods.

I had lots of fun scouting new catalog photoshoot and product-testing locations (I start now for contracts to be filled next Spring and sometimes even in Winter), and ended up on a logging spur way above even the former treeline with a fine view of the Valley below. It was pretty hazy, due to a controlled burn-off of grasslands at several area wildlife preserves (I've yet to completely understand it...wouldn't the flames cook the smaller animals?), but much of the smoke blew through and it was nice up on the mountain. The owners of a tree farm in the area greeted me nicely as I exited the gate they were about to enter. They're good to allow visitors as long as they are respectful and I managed to pick up a few pieces of trash I found along the way.

Except for a few chipmunks and ground squirrels, I saw no larger animals this trip. Heard a lot of bird calls, including some unfamiliar to me.

This was a further learning experience with the GoPro Hero HD2 camera and YouTube. I shot some footage as I rode along, and was very disappointed to find selecting "Correct shaky video" should read "smear all detail". Well, live and learn; it appears to be an option not well suited to all video, and this was one that didn't come out crisp like the original. I also learned the onboard, rigid camera mount works fantastically for paved roads and even smooth gravel. It is a disaster off-road. The rigid mount means the vibration of the bike is transferred to video, and it looks like the trees and such are melting in a fashion sure to have pleased Salvador Dali but few others. It looks like I disturbed the space-time continuum and opened a rift to another dimension. It is sort of neat in an art-house way, but I need to switch to the chest mount or helmet mount when going off-road if I am to have any hope of usable video in those conditions.

I have a lot to learn when it comes to shooting good videos! What a fun task ahead...

If you would like to see the videos, here they are:
http://youtu.be/wNK0YYzMdJ0 (Nomad headed for Alsea Falls)
http://youtu.be/oC2qg_381O0 (Nomad at Alsea Falls)

The Rohloff worked like a champ, and the grumbling and gnashing of gears in the low range did not prove bothersome to me. The bike itself handled flawlessly, and I kept my downhill speeds to 42mph/68kph only because the Nomad is new and it seems wise to be a bit cautious until I learn all its nuances. I will have to do something to soften the ride, though, and the solution should be as easy as letting out some air. I had aired the tires F/R to 45/51psi. 3.1/3.5bar in accordance with Andy Blance's recommendation for a "rim-safe" maximum, and this worked beautifully for the fully-loaded bike. Not a single complaint from me. However, it is simply "too much" for the relatively light loads I carried today, and it just beat me up -- especially on the off-road stretches. Next time, I'll drop the pressures for unladen riding down to 45/40psi and see how it goes; should be much better. The Schwalbe Duremes worked very nicely as a "do-it-all" tire; no complaints there, either, except I need to adjust air pressure downward. I also need to get the Grab-On closed-cell foam padding on the handlebars, compression-wrapped and covered with padded tape. I am just waiting to confirm the position of the brake levers and to install the interrupter/cross-top brake levers. Once all that is done, on goes the padding. I agree with Stutho (Stuart), increasing the 'bar diameter alone will help a lot with comfort.

So, all in all, a wonderful day out on the bike, and a chance to get a lot of climbing in on 12-18% grades, and I worked in about 5mi/8km of gravel as well. Everything worked terrifically well!

Best,

Dan.
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: Danneaux on September 08, 2012, 07:35:51 AM
A few more from today's ride to Alsea Falls...

Best,

Dan.
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: Relayer on September 08, 2012, 08:14:26 AM
Great pictures Dan.

Beautiful weather, beautiful scenery, beautiful bike ... yes, looks like a wonderful day out. 

Thanks for sharing.
Jim
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: triaesthete on September 08, 2012, 09:30:07 AM
Hi Dan
great pictures. I'm glad it's all working out this time.
What size bar bag is it you have, and are the little outer pockets any use?
Best wishes
Ian
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: jags on September 08, 2012, 12:19:54 PM
Thanks for sharing Dan, 42mph huh and you were taking it easy  :-\

the Nomad sure looks like a class act. ;)
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: Danneaux on September 08, 2012, 07:11:30 PM
Hi All!

Thanks for the kind words on the still photos, I sure need to get up to speed on video, but I'll get there!

Yes, that was a terrific day for riding, and I keep thinking about it today...a sure sign of a fun trip. THis has been a crazy year for weather, but it will likely turn more Fall-like before long, so I just couldn't let this one go by.

Ian, you asked...
Quote
What size bar bag is it you have, and are the little outer pockets any use?

Good questions! It is an Ortlieb Ultimate V "Plus" (Cordura fabric), in size "Large". And yes, the little pockets have proven surprisingly useful, despite some initial doubts on my part.

If you wish more detail, read on.

First, the bag...
I was initially put off by the idea of a "Large" mostly out of concern it would be too bulky, too heavy, or I'd overpack it. Even better, the bag was sitting dusty and unloved and had a nice sale price far less than the Medium because so many buyers had avoided it for those same reasons. As it happens, none of those concerns proved valid for me, and I'm really glad I went this route. A quick look at the Ortlieb specs shows the Large and Medium are the same height and width, and the weight is only 20g/.7oz more. The real difference is on fore/aft dimensions, where the Large is 3cm/1.18in larger. Even this is not much bigger, but when combined with the height and width, results in an extra 1.5l of volume, and this makes a big difference for my use. This way, I have the room for light but bulky stuff when I need it. Sometimes on day rides, I'll fill the whole bag with only a lightweight fleece pulover; nice to have on cold days, but doesn't store very small. This larger HB bag is ideal for that.

The Ultimate V Large bag only comes in all-black, but there's enough black on the red-and-black Ortlieb panniers for it to blend in nicely. It also matches my $15 (another sale) Nashbar rack-top pack, so when I'm out on day rides, it looks like I planned it that way.  ;) I had initially wanted all my bags to be black, but that plan came to an end when the red-and-black panniers went on-sale. The front ones retailed for USD$225 at REI when I got them, but thanks to a 20% off sale, a gift card for signing up for their no-fee credit card, and my dividend, they cost only USD$72. The USD$248 rear Ortlieb BikePacker Plus panniers were reduced to USD$189, so I took the plunge and red-and-black it was.

I keep the weight of my HB bag to 5.5-6lb, 2.5-2.7kg maximum, and use it mainly for things I wish to reach quickly or things that are bulky but light. The bag has my papers, money, credit cards and other documents when actually on-tour -- lock keys, too -- so it goes with me when I leave the bike. It also has various small items like my Swiss Army knife, bug spray, lip balm, snacks, small First Aid Kit (a larger one rides in the panniers for use on Big Tours far away from any help), pen, thyroid and allergy meds, my tiny MP3 player and multiband radio, and my charging adapters (spare batteries are elsewhere, except for one spare each for the cameras so I can reach them for a quick swap without rooting through the panniers). Everything goes in little zip-top plastic bags so I can keep like items together and see what's inside. If my dentist is reading this...Nadia, the toothbrush and paste also live here so I can get to them after meals.

My wind-jacket goes in one lightweight breathable nylon Avocet saddle bag (a promo item from years ago), and my hats (lightweight fleece balaclava, ball cap, and sun hat) go in another Avocet bag. These are captive to the key ring and ride atop the contents, so I can just flip them into the open lid if I need to quickly reach something, yet won't lose them to an errant breeze (in the desert, afternoon winds of 39-45mph/63-72kph are common, and chasing a valued item across playa, hoping it will catch on sagebrush is not a Fun Pursuit. It only needed to happen once for me to get with the plan and make such things captive). I store my nylon-faced wool jersey and my fleece jacket in two more of these bags under the cap-tops of my front bags, so I can reach/stow them quickly in changing conditions. The cords are made captive in the bag-cap latches so they can't work out with vibration when off-road...everything that is lashed to the bike is "safety-wired" similarly so it won't be truly lost if it works free of its moorings.

Just as with the Ortlieb panniers, the internal envelope pockets work so much better if they are laid atop the load, instead of being trapped against the sidewall/stiffener making them hard to access. Having the pocket on top of the contents keeps the contents in place in wind, too, yet instantly accessible when needed.

As for the little outside pockets...
When I first saw them, I actually chuckled -- they were so small, and made of mesh (though with a waterproof cap-top). Still, I have found them to be incredibly handy once I found the proper contents to store there. The left side holds my eye drops and waterproof LED headlamp, so I can find them even in the dark when on the bike or in the tent; rain harms neither. The head-band of the light is wrapped around the light and secured with a ladies' nylon-covered hairband; I use those to compress and secure lots of things. The right-side pocket holds a couple small packets of paper tissues, my do-all product on the road. It serves for dryng a drippy nose, toilet tissue, dinner napkin, fire tinder, and will help staunch blood flow from a skinned knee. I usually tear the sheets in half so they last longer and they stay absolutely dry in their little resealable plastic pockets under the waterproof pocket lid -- there's a whole progression or food-chain for their use, starting as dinner napkin then nose-wipe, and finally toilet paper to be buried. When carried supplies can't be replenished and limited stores need to last a month or more, it pays to stretch each use as far as possible before discarding.

Admittedly, that's not much in those pockets, but they have proven handy nonetheless.

Whew. Short question, long answer!

All the best,

Dan.
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: triaesthete on September 10, 2012, 08:14:30 PM
"Whew. Short question, long answer!"

No less than I have come to expect Dan  :) BUT very useful as I was about to hit the buy button on the 7l classic. Thanks. I must confess I was not being "careful" but I was worried about bulk and the wee pockets looked twee. Like you say 20g and only one increased dimension for 1.5l extra volume looks like good value/gram EVEN to a recovering weight weenie  :o and padded jackets etc are nice to have aboard. BTW do you need the extended mount to give enough clearance round the Rohlof shifter, or is yours high enough for it not to matter?

I'm glad I waited a day for your reply. It will be a big posh one now.

Fighting bicycle anorexia
Ian
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: Danneaux on September 10, 2012, 10:22:49 PM
Quote
...do you need the extended mount to give enough clearance round the Rohlof shifter, or is yours high enough for it not to matter?

So far, everything fits really well together, providing plenty of clearance for full usability of the handlebars, shifter, and HB bag. I've atached a composite photo that give a little better idea of the clearances involved, Ian. There is plenty of room for my Rohloff shiftera nd the Large HB bag, keeping in mind the shifter is mounted above the handlebars on its own T-bar.

The real key to the setup is getting the HB bag as low as possible by mounting it on a Thorn Accessory T-bar. I'm currently using the 55mm T-bar for that (the measurement is center-to-center) and all is fine. That may change when I install my 'cross-top interrupter levers -- it is possible my fingers may rub on the HB bag, 'cos the levers sit at an angle rather than vertical. If I get interference with them, then I have two options:

1) Fit a 110mm T-bar in place of the 55mm T-bar and figure new sightlines for the compass/bell and bike computer.

...or...

2) Fit the Ortlieb HB bag extender, which would leave all my other clearances and sightlines intact as they are.

I was drawn to using the short T-bar 'cos it moved the HB bag 50mm/2in rearward, and that can't be a bad thing for handling. It also keeps the bag as low as possible, which also aids handling.

A quick tip for when you get your bag...

The perimeter frame is plastic, and works very well. However, an inherent "feature" of the design is the bag *will* sag somewhat when carrying a full load. I did a lot of testing and found if one sets the mount up so the mounting face is parallel to the head tube, then when the bag is full to rated capacity, it will be dead-level. If you set it level to begin with, it will decline downward in front, and to my eye that looks a bit bad, makes map-reading more difficult, and reduces clearance between the bag and a headlight. So, set the mount up so it is parallel to the head tube and all will level out in use at max rating. Also, I found no difference in mounting the bag to the T-bar compared to a regular stem and handlebar. SJS Cycles thoughtfully advises making several wraps of the tensioning cable around the T-bar, but I have not found it necessary in my case. I tried it both ways with a past cable and found this way is actually more secure 'cos it is easier to get the cable up to full, even tension...a task made more difficult if it is wrapped several times (the multiple wraps increase friction, which is why big boats/small ships are tied to dock bollards with multiple turns of rope).

I hope this helps. Yeah, I agonized over the size till I ran the numbers and was surprised as anyone to find the large size is a real bargain weightwise, and isn't really very much more bulky given it has as much extra capacity as a 1.5l waterbottle.

If you need any more photographs or measurements to ease the decisionmaking and subsequent setup, just give a shout, Ian. I hope the new bag works well for you. There's some neat engineering in it, and some nifty little tricks to getting maximum use from the space offered.

All the best,

Dan.
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: triaesthete on September 11, 2012, 12:44:04 AM
Thanks again Dan. Quick work!

Shows the relative size and forward throw nicely. I was contemplating mounting it on the handlebar stem to have it high enough in order to give some windchill/rain  protection for my fingers when riding in a narrow position on the tops.  As the shifter will then be behind, rather than above it, I think I will need the extension mount for winter mitt clearance.

Nice tip about mount angles. I'm sure the inherent frame sag is intentional to give the set up some shock absorption capability and reduce shock loads to the stem. It's nice too how they've used a cable  instead of clamps round the bar as a support method. Not only stronger and less chance of slippage, but also able to accommodate bars (like Thorn drops for GB shifter)where the centre bulge tapers immediately adjacent to the stem. Ortlieb designs always seem to demonstrate lateral thinking.

I'm realising as time goes by that all bike set ups, for me at least, are provisional and always possible to improve in some way....
Plan b will be a low mounting on an accessory bar. If only they gave it a convex front face it could act as an aerodynamic aid as well.

Cheers
Ian
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: triaesthete on September 16, 2012, 02:07:04 PM
Hi Dan
big bag bought and fitted. Your tip regarding mounting angles is spot on and saved much set up time. The inherent flex in the bag frame seems to give it a degree of float and reduces jarring over bumps. The cable mount for the bar bracket is amazingly solid.

Interestingly just the standard bag mount gives knuckle clearance in front of  the Berthoud shifter. The bag does sit high enough to protect fingers from windchill as well.

The larger volume is definitely worth having as less "packing" required  for any given load and the forward projection of this bag does not seem excessive. Handling is different (slower) but good, even on tracks and in crosswinds. I might have to try a little more air in the front tyre though as it does seem to change weight distribution noticeably.

Your idea of using the document pouch as an inner lid is sublime. I've had Ortieb panniers for years and never thought of this. Truly a "Doh!" moment.

I'm seeing the Rene Herse type bikes in a new light already.
Thanks for the help
Ian
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: Danneaux on September 16, 2012, 06:25:26 PM
Hi Ian!

I'm delighted to hear the new HB bag is working for you, and really appreciate the followup. Congratulations! I think it will go far toward keeping your fingers warm as cold weather arrives.

<nods> Those Ortlieb HB bags and panniers are really something; I find myself appreciating mine more and more as time goes by. The HB bag mount in particular...when I first saw mine, my heart kind of sunk...plastic?!? A little plastic box?!? It'll break as soon as I tension the cable! It has worked beyond all expectations and even docks and works well with the available spacer, when need be. That tension cable is brilliant, and every time I find myself grousing that humankind has begun to lose mechanical innovations in favor of electronic, I look at that and smile.

You may (will) find the bag bounces on rough roads due to that same inherent flex and degree of float -- not to worry! The mass-moment is vertical and does not seem to impart any sideways impetus to the handlebars as I worried it might. I do keep the relatively heavier things toward the steerer and down low, but the real purpose of the bag for me has been to carry light-bulky things I want to reach quickly.

You mentioned...
Quote
The larger volume is definitely worth having as less "packing" required  for any given load

I think this is a very important point. For most of the last 30-odd years of touring, I have concentrated on keeping my weight down, of course. I have also spent countless hours trying to minimize bulk so I coud get by with less volume. I came up with all sorts of clever nesting and packing schemes at home and cut my overall bulk by better than 33%. On my 2010 Great Basin Tour, I found I had hit -- no, passed -- the point of diminishing returns. Out There is not Home, and it took more time and effort than it was worth spending to repack everything. By the day, I placed more value on getting packed and off early each morning than I did on the size of the load. It was a bit like when you take a load of clothes out of the dryer -- everything lofted or fluffed when it was no longer compressed and it was tough putting it back...moreso in 70mph wind-driven rain and ice pellets atop Blizzard Gap. Even food storage became problematic. At home, I discarded all packaging and reduced my food to a series of little rolled freezer bags bundled together with nylon-covered elastic hair bands. Guess what? I had uh, forgotten over the winter that whatever food I was likely to find at the little stores I passed would be canned or in bulky, irreducible containers. Oops. Now, I depend on my Ortlieb Bike Packer Plus' rear bags' built-in compression straps to minimize the bags around their load, and they expand nicely when needed as well.

There's something really nice about just tossing a fleece jacket into that Large HB bag rather than trying repeatedly to fold it so it *just* fits in a smaller one.

Freeing that inner document pouch works even better on the panniers. Those pouches are long and can be folded under themselves atop the load so as soon as the bag is opened, you can access the pouches instead of shredding your fingernails trying to get at them next to the stiffener. The effect is three good-sized pockets -- a top, zippered-mesh pocket, and a large one that is divided into two by the fold. Just the place to put a first-aid kit, bug repellent, meds, whatever you'd like to reach quickly without digging. Need to access the main contents? Just flip the pouch up and you're set. Combined with the cap-tops on my "Packer"-series bags, this gives me 4 "pockets" plus the main compartment on each front pannier, and the same on the rear plus the outside compartments Ortlieb provides on its BikePacker Pluses. If you put your whatever in a stuff sack before placing it under the panniers' cap-top, then the lid becomes a fully-realized pocket of good size. Four or five pockets per pannier isn't bad.

Quote
I'm seeing the Rene Herse type bikes in a new light already.

Herse was a true genius whose range of innovations has never been equaled in a single bike manufacturer's product line. Alex Singer came very, very close as did some of the other constructeurs of the day, but Herse was nearly always ahead of them and many of his innovations are in our bicycles today (clamped-on stems, for example).

All the best,

Dan.
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: triaesthete on September 16, 2012, 10:48:03 PM
Hi Dan
"I found I had hit -- no, passed -- the point of diminishing returns. Out There is not Home, and it took more time and effort than it was worth spending to repack"

I know what you mean Dan, I learnt all this on winter motorcycle camping trips across Europe. Although weight and bulk were important (only using 90cc bikes on occasion!) ease of use when tired, cold and having trouble thinking straight was the premium consideration. Ortlieb gear was the best for this as well. I was getting quite good at it after 10 years experience so I see now why you are a mine of advice if you've had 30 years development and experience in bike touring.

Thanks
Ian
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: Danneaux on September 16, 2012, 10:50:42 PM
Quote
I was getting quite good at it after 10 years experience so I see now why you are a mine of advice if you've had 30 years development and experience in bike touring.

(Very kind words, and I thank you.)

B-bu-but Ian...I still learn something new everyday!  Gee, I'd hate to get to the point where I 'knew it all", as there'd be no fun left!

All the best,

Dan. (...who thinks adventures on 90cc motorbikes sound absolutely wonderful!)
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: triaesthete on September 17, 2012, 12:35:53 AM
Hi Dan
I've put a few links in the hobbies other than motorcycling thread. http://www.thorncycles.co.uk/forums/index.php?topic=3073.45

When you say you learn something new every day, it's true. That's why there is no definitive set up... the future's great!
Cheers
Ian
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: Danneaux on September 17, 2012, 12:58:40 AM
Quote
I've put a few links in the hobbies other than motorcycling thread...

Genuinely good stuff, Ian! So glad you posted the links.

Quote
...learn something new every day...That's why there is no definitive set up... the future's great!

Truer words were never spoken! We're like peas in a pod on that one, Ian.

All the best,

Dan. (..who is now convinced adventures on 90cc motorbikes sound absolutely wonderful!)
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: jags on September 27, 2012, 11:50:51 PM
Dan have you taken the nomad on any adventures yet (video sorry buddy got to ask ),
sorry if i asked that before but i have just taken some prescribed  med for my headache and i think I'm on a trip.happy days  ;D ;D
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: Danneaux on September 28, 2012, 01:31:56 AM
Hi jags!

No, no long trips to date except for longish day trips greater than 110mi/180km on a mix of pavement and rough-stuff/logging roads/single-track. The Nomad is doing well, but wants to go on a proper camping tour. Time has been the limiting factor, but it will come. Our weather patterns seem to have changed, and we're having a lovely, extended Fall...the forecasts are calling for daytime highs in the low-80sF/28C everyday till Friday after next. Then, a few days with scattered showers till it settles in to the high-60s/mid-70sF, 20-23C with a mix of sun and clouds. Nice as it is, this is not normal for us over here in the upper-left corner of 'Merka. My buddy in Alaska tells me it is nothing but heavy rain and storms, and he was without power in Anchorage-Wasilla for a whole week thaks to a recent storm.

I'm working on getting the camera sorted; the rigid mount is *perfect* for pavement, but horrible when it turns rough, so I am getting the chest harness and helmet cam arranged for those occasions. I've got *so* much going on here at present, I have to kind of prioritize my projects; I've got a Big one related to the Nomad coming up soon, with sponsorship obligations. Be patient; you'll see resuts soon.  ;)

A good part of this afternoon was spent replacing the Nomad's front mudguard with a repurposed rear one and blacking-out the stays with heat-shrink tubing. I still need to undrill a couple holes in the repurposed mudguard, then I'll be done with the task. My late mother sometimes used the word "hideawfulous" to describe something that was otherwise too hideously awful for conventional words. My father's favorite phrase for such things is, "Get a stick and I'll kill it". Hopefully, I've missed both reactions with the new mudguard. Though my fellow Forum members may hold their heads in dismay, the results look very good to my eye, with photos to follow soon. I may very well switch back to a conventional front mudguard for summer, but this long one will do wonders for keeping me drier when the rains come. It'll even keep the front panniers looking much fresher. I have misplaced my spare Playmobil ravens, and I need to affix one to the new front mudguard.

Things are moving right along.

The AXA ringlock that used to live on Sherpa is now on the Nomad, and the transfer was not easy. The Sherpa's seatstays were smaller in diameter and in a fastback style; the Nomad's are much larger in diameter and attach to the sides of the seat tube. I had to remove the clasping arms from the AXA ATB mounting blocks, mill the seatstay cradle larger in diameter and take it down 3mm each side after pening up the mountin hooks. The result turned out great, and looks like it is factory-original -- yay! I'll breathe a little easier having the lock on and mounted for my day rides. Photos of that a bit later, too.

I got the IQ Fly low-rise headlight mount modified and installed for properly mounting the IQ Cyo R in the same position it occupied on Sherpa (the Nomad's biplane truss fork mounts the light higher otherwise), and the lighting and charging system will follow when I have a bit more time. I have some new modular routing and wiring ideas, and don't want to rush things.

I sure hope the new headache meds do their job for you, jags; not fair you've had those to deal with.

All the best,

Dan. (Stay tuned! More's coming soon...)
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: jags on September 28, 2012, 12:39:45 PM
cheers dan look forward to seening all the changes to the nomad loads of pic's please. ;)
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: Danneaux on September 30, 2012, 03:40:42 AM
Quote
...look forward to seening all the changes to the nomad loads of pic's please...

You have only to ask, jags!

This post is bound to raise a bit of controversy on aesthetic grounds, if nothing else.

In anticipation of rain and winter use, I have modified and repurposed an SKS P55 rear mudguard for use on the front of my Nomad. I still have the "shorty" for summertime use in good weather, but if past experience holds true here, I may well be keeping the "long-board" design as my default.

Over years of careful observation, I have found the common front mudguard really doesn't do a very good job keeping me dry when riding in the wet. They commonly end at about 90/12 o'clock, and this is not the best design for use in foul weather. Especially when a treaded tire is used, the water clinging to it is still moving forward and out of these short mudguards at pretty high velocity and gets flung forward...just in time for me to run into it. As a result, my headlight gets splashed with mud and dirt, and a lot of the wet stuff catches me between my knees and thighs and the bike gets filthy with dirty water, most of which is blown back from the top of the short front mudguard.

I looked at photos and illustrations of French constructeurs' bikes from the Grand Era of touring in the years before and after World War II and again in the 1950s and 1960s; Herse and Singer are the most prominent examples. Nearly every constructeur's bike was fitted with generous front mudguards that curved well forward, over the crown of the tire. When viewed from the right side, they terminated about 1 o'clock to 2 o'clock, depending on the type of brakes used -- brazed-on centerpulls or cantilevers. It was common for the front of the mudguard to terminate at the same height as the brakes. In no case did the mudguard extend as far as the front of the tire; this to prevent damage if the tire contacted a wall. For some examples, see:
http://janheine.wordpress.com/2011/03/21/which-bike-to-ride/
http://janheine.files.wordpress.com/2010/10/windyridgefarewell.jpg
http://janheine.files.wordpress.com/2010/12/gburainier.jpg <-- A more recent recreation by Grand Bois

Andre will quickly recognize this as something Utopia Velo do as well, but with less extension:
http://www.utopia-velo.de/relaunch/index.a4d

Having pondered this for some time, I decided to do the same on one of my older lighter touring/randonneur bikes some years ago (see: http://thorncyclesforum.co.uk/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4523.0;attach=11924;image ) -- combined with a generous mud flap -- and the results exceeded all my hopes. I could ride through heavy rain and puddles and stay much drier. The results were even more marked when I rode with a companion who had conventional "shorty" mudguards -- she got soaked, while I ended the ride dry and happy. My panniers stayed much cleaner and drier as well, and so did the bike itself.

The extended mudguard contains the water till it loses volume and velocity, and then directs it downward, where it naturally drains and is further carried in a downward trajectory by the spinning tire. Specialized employed a similar front mudguard on their early Globe city bikes for the same reasons. These things really work well for commuting and touring in the rain, when you just have to keep going regardless of the weather. I can't claim a marked aerodynamic advantage, but the leading edge no longer faces directly into the wind, and the weight penalty is a couple ounces.

I wanted the same ground clearance and stay placement as the original short front mudguard, so I removed 4.24in/10.8cm total from the *rear* of the rear mudguard, using the end of the short front mudguard as a template and rough-cut the new contour with scissors about 1cm longer than I needed. I then sanded it to the final contour using a disc sander and a high-speed die-grinder fitted with a 1.5cm sanding drum. The results turned out well. The upper bridge from the original rear stayed riveted in place, and the lower bridge was reloacted further up to match the shorty. The bridge from another front mudguard was salvaged and riveted in place at the front with alu backing plates to distribute stress, and a fresh set of stays for all bridges were supplied by PlanetBike, who kindly make spare parts available at modest cost and postage-free: http://ecom1.planetbike.com/smallparts.html I especially like their draw-bolts, which are equipped with 10mm stainless nylock nuts instead of the usual 8mm nuts that can vibrate loose. See: http://ecom1.planetbike.com/7006_7.html

I needed to fill a few holes in the mudguard, and did so using some plugs cut from the leftover end. I used a leather punch to regularize the unwanted hole, then filled it with the same-size plug, dropped in from the outside and secured with beta-cyanoacrylate gel. See: http://thorncyclesforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=4725.msg23673#msg23673 The hole in the top of the mudguard is temporarily plugged with a rubber socket-head bolt cover, but will soon be filled with a proper plug that will support my Playmobil raven mudguard mascot (see: http://thorncyclesforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=4523.msg22087#msg22087 ). The Cyo headlight is test-fitted in the photo below, so the power leads are simply draped over the steerer-mounted bottle cages; all will be installed properly in time.

The front of the extended mudguard is supported with short single stays held by longer 6mm buttonhead stainless socket-head (allen) bolts on the front-outside corners of the Thorn Low-Loader MkV pannier racks. The mudguards are held securely; vibration is what really kills plastic and plastic-alu-laminate mudguards over time.

The sharp-eyed among you will see I also used heat-shink tubing to blackout the mudguard stays. I think this looks is more consistent with the stealthy matte-black paint on the Nomad. Aesthetics count for something, so I matched the angle of the mudguard struts with the Low-Loader braces so they would look like a natural extension. Their lateral bracing angles keep the mudguard end from vibrating, even on rough roads.

So, there you have it -- a Nomad Mk2 with an extended front mudguard. The appearance is an acquired taste but in this case, it works so well that function trumps fashion for me. Now I am used to it, I have come to see beauty in the design and look forward to keeping the bike cleaner and myself drier when the Fall and Winter rains hit. Besides, it reminds me of my father's Indian motorcycle mudguards, back in the day (second photo, 71 years ago). For those who don't like it...I'll bet it takes your mind off the high-mounted brake levers, tipped handlebars, and T-bar mounted Rohloff shifter!  :D

Best,

Dan.
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: Danneaux on September 30, 2012, 04:14:28 AM
Hi All!

Along with modifying and installing the longer front mudguard, I've been busy adapting the AXA Defender ring-lock to the Nomad; it had previously been installed on Sherpa:
http://www.thorncycles.co.uk/forums/index.php?topic=1944.msg19741#msg19741

Reasons I chose it are here: http://www.thorncycles.co.uk/forums/index.php?topic=1944.msg19634#msg19634

This turned out to be no easy task, as the Nomad has much larger seatstays, and they attach to the sides of the seat tube rather than to the rear in a fastback style, as on Sherpa. Effectively, the stays were too large and too wide for the AXA Defender's ATB-mounts to capture, and the same held true for the flexible mounting strips AXA offer as an alternative. I put a good 6 hours into trying to make both work before I retired from the task to give it more thought.

The solution proved surprisingly easy and straighforward. If you refer to the photos linked at the first thread referenced above, I had to remove the claspers on the standoff blocks, then mill the locating groove to match the Nomad's seatstay diameter. I used a sanding drum to remove bulk stock, then turned-down a "green" silica grinding stone to the exact diameter needed to match the Nomad seatstays and used that with a high-speed die-grinder to set the final contour, thinning the standoff blocks by 3mm each. The final result tolerances were accurate to 0.1mm according to my Mitutoyo digital caliper.

After the standoff blocks were contoured, I turned my attention to the "cup hook" portion of the ATB mounts, and opened them a sufficient amount to accommodate the Nomad's larger stays and covered the contact points with double layers of heat-shrink tubing.

The whole lot bolted up pretty nicely, and the cover plates snapped on just fine, concealing the mounting nuts on the threaded ends of the cup hooks. Without over-tightening or damaging the stays or paint, the ring-lock is tight enough so it doesn't "clock" around the mounts when the spring-loaded shackle is released; it is solid, just as I hoped.

I feel a lot better having the ring-lock on the bike and use it -- with or without the plug-in 1.5m cable -- whenever I stop so a snatch-and-grab theft cannot occur; they are common in my area. The key remains captive in the lock while riding so I can't forget it, and is held nicely on my wrist with an expanding plastic coil when I leave the bike. I like the AXA Defender, and the ATB mount's standoff blocks leave enough clearance between lock and stays so grit cannot get in between and grind on the paint, and it is easy to "floss" the area with a soft, damp cloth to remove any dirt at cleanup time.

Best,

Dan.
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: Danneaux on September 30, 2012, 04:31:16 AM
Hi All!

I don't have my lights and charging system fully installed on the Nomad yet. I am taking my time, and have plans for a new modular connector system that should make it even easier to perform future routine service on the headset and such with the lights and the Tout Terrain The Plug 2 and PAT cable in place.

Meantime, I have found the Nomad's light mount is considerably higher than Sherpa's, thanks to the Nomad's extended fork and tall biplane fork crown (the frame is designed to allow for a suspension fork and preload, so the rigid fork is a bit taller to compensate).

The difference between the two light mounts is about 1.25in/31.75mm vertically.

I will be using the BM Q Cyo R headlight from the Sherpa on the Nomad, and the heavy stainless-steel wire mount on it looked awfully high on the tall fork, and I really wanted it lower for better aiming (it still cleared the underside of the Ortlieb HB bag nicely).

B&M to the rescue with a Lumotec Fly Cantilever Mount (shown about 2/3 down the page here: http://www.peterwhitecycles.com/light-mounts.asp ). This restores the Cyo to nearly the same height as on Sherpa, and I like the lower-profile mount even better, as it will allow for a cleaner wire run to the backside of the crown.

The original IQ Cyo R mount is shown test-fitted to the bike and the Lumtec Fly Cantilever mount is held next to it for comparison in the photo below. The standoff blocks are turned, black-anodized aluminum spacer plates from some old Dia-Compe short-arm cantilevers dating to 1983. The Playmobil raven mudguard mascot will go where the present rubber plug fills a hole in the top of the mudguard in the attached photo.

More installments as the light and charging system build progress.

Best,

Dan.
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: triaesthete on September 30, 2012, 01:00:18 PM
Hi Dan
nice work. I particularly like the stays aligned with the low loader tubes.

I love your dad's bike, they were built as transport back then, not toys. Nowdays a motorcycle with practical guards would never get out of the showroom, but then owners moan about lack of weather protection and practicality and spend loads on mudguard accessories. Go figure! as they say in 'Merka. Some conflict between desire and needs. It would be nice if the current retro hipness encouraged a few designers to revisit old time practicality for real.

To stop the forward spray from under the front mudguard I adopted a pragmatic English approach (bodge ::) ) and used a little bit of black  insulation tape on the underside of the mudguard to make a little curtain that hangs just above the tyre tread. The funny little plastic end trims then serve a purpose and retain the tape in wet conditions. 5 minutes and 0.1pence, simples.
I like to use threadlock on the stay nuts and I finish the stay ends shorter and out of sight like Thorn do in their brochures.

Yours is a real artisans bike with all those industrial products subtly improved.
I'm impressed.
Ian
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: jags on September 30, 2012, 01:40:25 PM
Ian sorry for being a pest but have you a photo of that front mudguard ,
i was thinking of  glueing a piece of plactic under the front of the mudguard but your idea sounds simple but would like to see it ;)
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: in4 on September 30, 2012, 01:47:44 PM
Dan, that photo of your Dad on his Indian is fantastic. You can see the mix of joy, pride and pleasure written all over his face. I'm minded to think Jack Kerouac and On the Road. Bit of an embryonic thesis of mine but I think there was something quite unique going on in the USA between the wars. Your Dad appears quite illustrative of that. Copyright that photo before the 'Madmen' claim it!
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: jags on September 30, 2012, 01:54:40 PM
yeah jack look's ever the cool dude has he still got that bike .
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: triaesthete on September 30, 2012, 05:10:37 PM
Hi Anto
I'm not quite e adept enough to do pictures just yet. But I use 20ish mm black insulation tape and just fold it to make a wee curtain at the front of the mudguard, then put the plastic trim back on to retain it for sure. If it touches the tyre just trim with scissors. Any bits that do touch in use will soon wear and give clearance.
I think tape is better than anything rigid because anything stuck to the tyre and passing underneath will just displace it harmlessly and not trash the mudguard or lock the wheel.

Go and have  try, feel the vibe, you've only got a few inches of tape to lose  :)
We can pretend it's judicious improvisation instead of bodging.

Better than nowt for almost nowt
Ian
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: jags on September 30, 2012, 05:24:21 PM
good idea  me thinks i will have a go at this tonight, ;)
my good wife gave me a lecture on how i have all the gear possible to keep me dry on the bike when it lashing rain, and we live on an island so get used to rain buddy  ;D ;D
cheers ian .
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: Danneaux on September 30, 2012, 08:10:41 PM
Ian, jags,

Jack was tickled by your comments; really pleased. Ian, you wrote...
Quote
...there was something quite unique going on in the USA between the wars...

<nods> Yes, and it was reflected in an industrial style I find very cool and chic, looking back from the present day. Jack had a number of motorcycles (or "moto-cycles" as Indian preferred to call them); this was Jack's "little" Indian; he had a larger one and a very nice 1927 2-cycle Cleveland bike before the Junior Scout. I have photos of those kicking around my computer from when I scanned and digitally restored them for Jack. He also had a very cool car...a 1938 Ford Phaeton with many custom touches and a chopped Carson top -- even the side windows were cut-down, rather than only rolling-up so far (pic below). I think this custom version reflects the style of the era you're referring to as well...and I was pleased the Nomad's new longboard front mudguard harkened back to Jack's Indian Junior Scout.

Quote
...has he still got that bike...

<shakes head sadly> No, jags, he sold it to get the "Big" Indian (1941 Indian Sport Scout with mudguard/fender skirts). That in turn was sold to pay expenses while Jack attended uni on the "GI Bill" after the War. As he used to tell me, "Your mother and I ate that bike -- its sale bought the groceries". It was his last motorcycle, and he has regretted it since, but Life (a couple kids including Yours Truly, buying a home, etc) intervened. His brother -- my Uncle Keith -- stayed with bikes for a long while till he got good and scared in his early 80s. He put ArmorAll on the saddle of his Honda Sabre and the thing ran out from under him when he cracked the throttle wide. Jack went into bicycles after his retirement, and we had many happy times touring together in Oregon's wilderness network of logging roads and fire trails. He would often turn to me (usually when climbing a 20% grade) and declare, "Y'know, motorcycles have all the fun of bicycling, but you don't have to pedal!".

He...has a point!

Best,

Dan.
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: jags on September 30, 2012, 08:46:04 PM
 :: 8) class looking car Dan but i would hate to have to buy the fuel for it @ 1.68 litre petrol you would want a small fortune to run it .
but love his bike .
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: Danneaux on September 30, 2012, 09:00:43 PM
Quote
...you would want a small fortune to run it

Ah, but jags...back then, gas (petrol) was only 16-17 cents per gallon. Of course, wages were lower as well. Just before the War, Jack was office manager of a Cadillac/Olds car dealership and felt like a king earning USD$50/month. Wages were a lot less here on the West Coast than on the East Coast, and the effects of the Great Depression hit here later and were felt much longer.

Jack's Junior Scout got 73 miles per gallon solo, and his Sport Scout managed 56 mpg with some luggage. My Nomad does about 120mi/190km on 3 liters of water and some energy bars climbing in the mountains on a hot day.  :D

All the best,

Dan.
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: jags on September 30, 2012, 10:21:36 PM
love it long live the nomad ;D ;D
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: Danneaux on October 01, 2012, 12:17:53 AM
Hi All!

I took the Nomad out for a spin today, and stopped at the neighborhood located on Goodpasture Island, just across the Owosso Bicycle Bridge from where I live. This used to be flood drainage and a sheep farm till developers bought it in the 1980s and turned it into "exclusive" upmarket housing (they still don't qualify for federal flood insurance, but most don't realize it). The homes are indeed beautiful, and there is even a series of decorative fountains, reflecting ponds, and their own neighborhood off-street bike paths.

It is also known to me as Mouse Haven.

Come again?

Well, on *my* side of the Willamette River, I am often visited by wildlife. I put out food for the birds and squirrels and water dishes for whoever/whatever makes it through the fence or my backyard version of a Nature Trail. This includes opossums, small families of skunks with their kits, raccoons, and the occasional nutria (really *big* rodent). In the Fall, it also means field mice. I've always been a soft-touch for animals, so when the little mice manage to sneak past the rubber door seal into the garage, I can't be too mad at them. They found the bike touring food lockers the other day and got positively drunk on Fruit Smoothie mix and they seemed to especially like the peanut-raisin-pineapple trail food. When I used the combo sander to mill down the end of the Nomad mudguard, I felt a Presence, as if something was watching me. It was a little field mouse, perched atop the adjascent tool chest, bright-eyed and alert as can be. That's what started the search and found the evidence of their housekeeping.

Being (too) soft-hearted, I can't bear traps or poison, so I have a small collection of live-traps and check them regularly so the little fellows don't expire while confined. Once caught, I really can't release them here (closed loop), so they get to go on "field trips" or mini-vacations to...you already guessed it, didn't you? -- Goodpasture Island. I usually release them about where the Nomad is sitting in the photos below. There aren't many cats, water and nesting materials are nearby, and bowls of doggie kibble on people's back porches. See why I call it Mouse Haven?

Coupla photos below, 'cos I couldn't decide between them.

Best,

Dan.
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: jags on October 01, 2012, 10:21:03 AM
your a big softi dan  ;D ;D

that gap on your from mudguard is spot on did you use a lazer beam to get the gap that good.
great pic's.

jags.
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: Andre Jute on October 01, 2012, 03:29:00 PM
Nice gaps on those guards. I adjusted mine the other day after fitting the Big Apple back on, having given the Kenda 47mm that came with the electtric wheel a fair 1600km/1000m trial.

Let's have a piccie of the mudflap please the next time you have your camera out, Dan. On the two pics above it shows only as a thin line, side-on. I have P65 mudguards, supposedly the long ones rather than the short "sports" version, but they still aren't long enough, and the SKS mudflap (older model of this http://www.sjscycles.co.uk/sks-long-mudflap-prod25599/ ), while it works, is also more stylish than fully effective when its really wet.

I've wondered about making mudflaps of leather, of which I have plenty after breaking up Swedish leather settees to get the curved, cured, laminated wood for my crank-forward geribike experiments a few years ago. I've seen the Brooks leather mudflaps http://www.sjscycles.co.uk/brooks-mud-flap-prod28310/ but making them fit is another matter as they are cut for narrower mudguards than mine.

The actual solution is of course to fit a complete rear mudguard to cover two thirds of the front wheel, and then to add a long mudflap to catch the residual spray, but the problem even then is that with really fat balloons the biggest mudguards (P65) that will fit inside even generously dimensioned forks barely cover the tyres.

Where I live you inevitably ride in the wet every now and again, even if you normally don't deliberately go out into the rain, so mudguards and mudflaps is a subject in which I take a keen interest!

Andre Jute
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: Danneaux on October 01, 2012, 04:00:12 PM
Hi Andre,

It's foggy-dim at 7:30AM here, but as soon as the sun emerges a bit more so you can see some detail in the black flaps, I'll take and post some piccies here later.

The front flaps I use are Buddy Flaps, cut from 3mm thick premium-grade vinyl. They are thin, they hang very nicely even at speed, and have an exceptionally glossy surface that is easily wiped (yes, I "wipe" them as part of my cleaning routine). I mount mine backwards, with the small impressed logo toward the tire. Buddy Flaps are available here: http://www.buddyflaps.com/  The package consists of a long flap intended for the rear (randonneur use, so you won't spray your following companions) and a shorter front flap, with mounting hardware. I mount mine by replacing the lower rivet in my SKS P55 mudguards with an alu pop-rivet and alu backing plate (washer). Works a treat, and a second rivet is not necessary. Unlike many plastic mudflaps, Buddy Flaps staighten themselves with room warmth if they have somehow become bent/skewed under pressure (i.e. the wheel turns and they get crabbed against a wall). Nice.

They do a very good job, being long enough while not catching unduly on obstacles. My standard is to make sure they clear a 6.5in US streetside curbing and also an 8" step-riser so I can wheel the bike up and down such obstacles without worry I'll catch the flap against the tire or endanger the mudguard. I had used (still do) PlanetBike Cascadia cupped mud flap extensions on my rando bike, but these are really too rigid if I hit an obstacle off-road (the cup shape transfers the force directly to the mudguard, endangering it). The PB versions are available about 1/3 of the way down this page: http://ecom1.planetbike.com/smallparts.html You would want to go back and check the width of the mudguards (fenders) they're intended for, but I believe at least one of them (perhaps the "29-er" Cascadia) might work. The flaps are extremely high-quality and include plastic rivets that hold very securely (invisible on a black mudguard).

Andre, I love the appearance of leather mudguards, but long ago decided to bypass them without trying one (there's a disclaimer!) becuase in my part of the world (wet-winter Willamette Valley), such things don't hold up very well. They get glopped up with dead angle-worms, various excretia, road oils and dirt...you name it. As a result, those I've seen (even nice Brooksian ones) soon look like one would expect...dead, wet leather with all this stuff clinging to them. Yuck. My Buddy Flaps come clean with a simple hosing or a quick wipe with a damp cloth.

Andre, it is so incredibly easy to reshape ESGE/Bluemels/SKS alu-plastic laminate mudguards. All one needs is a heatgun and only a little patience. I've recurved 700C mudguards to perfectly follow the 20"/406mm tires on my recumbent project and it is also easy to widen the mudguards so evenly as to look "factory". I thought about this when you mentioned yours are barely wide enough to cover your Big Apples.  When the mudguards on my Sherpa and Nomad arrived, the edges weren't too regular, so I simply heated them carefully and evenly (and not too hot) and they're true as a die now. I always do this before cutting and setting my stay length. That's how I get my fender-lines so even.

Or, you could do what you're thinking...

Quote
The actual solution is of course to fit a complete rear mudguard to cover two thirds of the front wheel, and then to add a long mudflap to catch the residual spray

...which is exactly what I did on the Nomad! It works a treat, and if your present mudguards work...so will these, since the clearances remain the same at the crown and rear, and the front can be curved similarly or with a bit more clearance. As you can see, my "long-board" (surfing/skateboard parlance) front mudguard has a just a bit more clearance than the Thorn-installed rear. The reason? I want a bit more on the front to prevent fouling with autumn leaves and such, and to clear damp playa if I leave these in place for my shoulder-season tours to the desert (I'm also running 5psi less air up front and it shows).  You don't need to attach the front stays to lowrider racks, either; simply go with longer stays and attach them to your lowrider bosses as Utopia Velo do on some of their models. By the way I got all my stays from PlanetBike direct; they're really good about picking up the (domestic) postage and the prices are very reasonable.The stays and products are of superb quality and mirror-polished in stainless.

Best,

Dan. (mudflap pics to follow very soon)
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: Andre Jute on October 01, 2012, 04:12:20 PM
Hope I didn't wake you, Dan. I rose at 1.17pm... Thanks for all that information, and so quick too! I look forward to the photograph.

Those Planetbike 29er flaps http://ecom1.planetbike.com/7029_1.html look just like a wider version of the SKS ones. I wonder if they're rebranded. If they are, I could just upgrade my SKS flaps, which are pretty short, to the 130mm model.

Andre Jute
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: Danneaux on October 01, 2012, 04:54:47 PM
Here you go, Andre...with the rear flap pictured as well. It is very long, and could be cut-down nicely to make a custom front flap. These photos show the extreme high gloss of the "skinned" high-quality vinyl Buddy Flaps use. Makes cleanup very quick and easy. You can also see the comparison between the original "shorty" front mudguard and the much more comprehensive coverage provided by my longboard version.

You will note the wedge shape of the 'flap does not cover the full width of the tire where it attaches to the mudguard. This is by design; if it did go full-width, the flap would then be rigid and could endanger the mudguard if it snagged off-road. In practice, there is essentially no spash-over in this small window at the tail-end of the 'guard.

Quote
Hope I didn't wake you, Dan...

No, unfortunately, I don't sleep much. A "long" night at home is about 6 hours. Most are about 4.5hrs. I got through my doctoral program averaging 2.5hrs/night and pulled a lot of long sessions at 40-hours straight and a few at 56-63hrs. I think it screwed-up my sleep schedule for good. If my mind is working on a project anyway, it is sometimes easier to just see it through and then go to sleep in peace rather than having my mind grind away. On-tour, I almost always sleep 8 hours a night, so I come home more rested than usual!

If you need any more photos of anything, let me know.

All the best,

Dan.
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: Danneaux on October 01, 2012, 06:17:51 PM
HI All!

Duhwanna dilute the Thorn content of this thread too much, but since we're on the subject of mudguards and uh, Thorns and such...

Attached is a composite photo showing one of my many bicycle-related projects, this one the base for my upcoming compound-drive, full-sus recumbent. This is based on a kids'-size MTB and the hardpoints on the frame are where mine will be. It will have an extension boom for the front crossover drive, a folding tiller for the 'bars and a seat where the present seat tube resides. Most of these are already jigged and tack-brazed. Once it proves out, I'll fillet-braze a replacement mainframe and swingarm using ovalized tandem keel tubes (I have some old Phil Wood stock on hand, same as used on my full-sus Folder project) and light cr-mo stays. 20" wheels let me sit flat-footed at traffic lights, and the suspension is welcome in a small-wheeled recumbent.

The reason the project appears here is the mudguards...the bike has 406mm/20in wheels and tires, and I had a tough time finding full-coverage mudguards for it, so I simply used my heat-gun to recurve a pair of ESGE/SKS 700C versions to fit. You'll note these curve forward generously as well. The stays are held to the sus stanchions using glass-filled nylon reflector clips. The handlebars (recent topic elsewhere) are Nitto Arc 'bars, which have a curve very like PeterG's Jones 'bars, but without the transverse clamp-brace. For this application, these will eventually be oriented vertically, the arc intended to clear my knees on the upstroke. Those are 7-sp Grip-Shifters. If I ever consider non-drops for the Nomad these will be likely candidates. Either these or a similar arc-like 'bar, as my wrists just won't "do" straight 'bars.

This is intended to show how easy it is to modify mudguards to specific needs. Plastic or plastic-alu laminate 'guards can be re-arced, widened, narrowed, or all three if sufficient care is used. The main thing is to watch the heat and apply it evenly -- my heat gun has settings for 600F and 1000F, and I use either as needed. It is also possible to hand-lay ABS 'guards over a buck (wooden jig or fixture) using liquid ABS "Syrup" that air-cures. I've done so for my Folder project, and they came out very nicely, but are a lot more work than re-arcing existing 'guards.

Mudguards for Thorns are easy!

Best,

Dan. (Danneaux Labs..."Where innovation never sleeps")
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: Andre Jute on October 01, 2012, 08:03:13 PM
Here you go, Andre...with the rear flap pictured as well.

Dan, thanks so much. You're a sterling fellow, and I shall doubtless abuse your goodwill by asking for more photographs in due time.

Interesting that the single fixing suffices you, and how long and narrow the Buddy is, and the "window" at the junction with the mudguard where it doesn't quite cover the tyre which is what bothers me about the Brooks mudflap, that I suspect it won't cover the width of the mudguard.

I have enough glossy, flexible, tough black lino, which I bought on Saturday with the idea of making a linocut for the cover graphic of one of my forthcoming books, to make a pair of mud flaps. I could cut my own symbol into them, sign my bike so to speak...I bought a linocut kit at the same time, as I have no idea in which of the many steamer trunks in the loft my own kit, last used 30 years ago, resides.

Andre Jute
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: Matt2matt2002 on October 01, 2012, 09:05:57 PM
Hi guys
Very impressed with the flaps.
Just run by me again how you fix the flaps to the guards. Some kinda rivet?
Bare in mind I am UK based when you talk tech. ;)
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: Danneaux on October 01, 2012, 09:12:48 PM
Hi Matt!

Yes, to secure my mudflaps, I use a "pop-rivet" or "blind-rivet" as they're called here in 'Merka. Installed properly, it will hold securely and not rattle loose. I use a backing place (an aluminum washer) to ensure a better, more secure fastening with the rivet.

Wikipedia has a nifty article with photos: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rivet#Blind_rivets

All the best,

Dan. (<<POP!>> goes the...rivet)
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: jags on October 01, 2012, 10:41:58 PM
thats something i must buy a pop rivet gun  great piece of kit.
i got a 30 mile spin in today and the last 6 miles  i got soaked to the skin .
my waterproof  jacket is no longer waterproof, ah well it served me well over the years just not today  ::)
 but yeah it was a day for the sherpa with it's mudguards and a new viser over the front mudguard  ,hope it works because i glued it on with 2 pack epoxy glue strong tact, ;D ;D.
Dan are those flaps worth the efford ,they look like they will add ever more wind resistance to a slow rider  ;)
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: Danneaux on October 01, 2012, 11:20:23 PM
Quote
thats something i must buy a pop rivet gun  great piece of kit.
They sure come in handy, jags. If you're going for one, try to get one with a long (extended) nose and swiveling head. It makes it so much easier to reach into tight places. The cost difference here is about USD$3 and well worth it. By the way, the secret to getting good results with one is to match the length of the rivet to the items you wish to fasten together. Get it too short, and it'll clinch prematurely and can work loose. Get it too long, and it leaves a mushroomed mess that doesn't hold very well. Every package of rivets has a thickness recommendation. Follow that and you'll always be fine and have great results.
Quote
my waterproof  jacket is no longer waterproof, ah well it served me well over the years just not today
Oh noes! Isn't that always the way? Rain jackets are bivalent, it seems -- waterproof and then...not!  Well, now y'know.  :-\ Don't you have a Corinne Dennis one in reserve? Be nice to break it in!
Quote
a new viser over the front mudguard
Wonderful!  Our friend Ian came up with a good idea and it should help, jags. It sure can't hurt.
Quote
...are those flaps worth the efford ,they look like they will add ever more wind resistance to a slow rider
Jags, I'd say "Absolutely!" They really have made a tremendous difference for me over years of my use. Of course, we are all different, but  find it makes almost half-again more difference than just a front mudguard. Not only do my feet and lower legs stay far drier, the drivetrain components last much longer. The chain no longer gets a shower where it curves around the front of the chainring (helps a great deal in dusty desert playa, too), road debris -- angleworms, rotted leaves, excretia, fine sand and grit, water of course -- are caught before they get on the chain or 'rings. Even the rear derailleur pulleys stay cleaner.

If you're wondering what a difference a good, long mudflap will make, try this:

Get a yardstick (or meter-stick, as the case may be) and put one end against the ground, where the front tire touches the pavement. Now, tip the end you're holding upward alongside the front wheel till it touches the bottom of your present front mudguard or mudflap. Everything *below* the yardstick is in the "spray zone" from your front tire. I like to have a front mudflap long enough so the "spray zone" falls below the largest front chainring. With care, you can also have it fall below the rear derailleur's tension pulley (the one that hangs lowest).

The difference is huge.

As for wind-resistance...no, there really isn't much -- hardly any caused by the one on my Nomad, 'cos it mostly "drafts" the outline of the front tire and can bend back slightly with the wind. The cup-type mudflaps are rigid and swell a bit to the side, so they can catch quite a lot of air (A disadvantage. On the other hand, they also catch a bit more side-spray, which is an advantage), depending on the combination of tire and mudguard width.  But no...the flap-type ones are really pretty much unnoticeable so long as they aren't too much wider than the tire, and I'm fussy about things like that, so I'd notice.  :D

If you were closer, I'd make one for you to try, but there's a bit of land and some wet stuff between us. Ah, well.

All the best,

Dan. ("Not just flapping his lips to feel the breeze")
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: jags on October 01, 2012, 11:57:11 PM
Cheers Dan  And Ian hope your idea works  ;)
so i have the sks 55 i think (scratch's head )
 is there a certain width of mudguard flap i should be looking to buy or will standard one do the job.
btw are those flaps available in the uk.
oh i will be taking my new corrine dennis jacket from now on, really not nice getting soaked miles from home.

jags.
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: Danneaux on October 02, 2012, 01:19:45 AM
Quote
...so i have the sks 55 i think...
Yes, jags, you probably do have the P55. If you know the measured width, I could tell you for sure. The P55 varies a little from sample to sample and over its length, but is about 54-57mm wide.
Quote
is there a certain width of mudguard flap i should be looking to buy or will standard one do the job.
Well, not really; it is up to you. I have made some that were the exact width of the mudguard using a vinyl notebook cover (they come in various colors so you can mix-or-match) and then just narrowed the top so it would "swing" in the breeze. Really, there's better things than notebook covers, which are too light and tend to curl. Something heavier is needed. I have put a pedal reflector on the bottom of some I've made. Some people use rubber or vinyl stair tread, Andre is thinking of using linoleum scraps. I have seen them made of canvas and urethane-coated nylon pack cloth (with a weight at the bottom). Making mudflaps is very much a DIY project, but Buddy Flaps gave me a boost, in this case.
Quote
btw are those flaps available in the uk.
I think Buddy Flaps are only available from Buddy Flaps in Washington State, USA ( http://www.buddyflaps.com/ ), but if you look here on SJS Cycles' site, you'll see lots of examples you could easily copy: http://www.sjscycles.co.uk/mudguards-mudflaps-dept283_pg1/

Some use one bolt, others use two. Some mount inside (tire side), others mount on the outside. I tend to prefer inside so the glop stays inside the mudguard and the mudguard braces the flap. The other way is fine also...it just depends on personal preference and application.
Quote
i will be taking my new corrine dennis jacket from now on, really not nice getting soaked miles from home.
<nods> I'll say; miserable! So glad you have the new jacket. Time to demote the old one to wind-jacket duty only.

All the best,

Dan.
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: Relayer on October 02, 2012, 01:47:01 PM
I think Buddy Flaps are only available from Buddy Flaps in Washington State, USA ( http://www.buddyflaps.com/ ),

I ordered 3 sets of Buddy Flaps from the USA (thinking to keep 2 for stock and save on postage for future requirements).  The ordering process was a bit complicated in that the site didn't seem to like Paypal UK, but I got it through OK with credit card.  However, there was no indication of postage costs, so hoping for the best I put in the order regardless ... and hey presto 3 sets arrived in Scotland postage free!!   ;D

I can only imagine the margin on an order of 3 fancy sets was enough for them to absorb the postage.
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: Andre Jute on October 02, 2012, 09:31:55 PM
Andre is thinking of using linoleum scraps.

Not quite. I would have, because I have a good relationship with the local carpet stores from the time I built famous/notorious speakers with carpet tubes as their resonance chambers, especially to play Gregorian music. But hardly anybody lays linoleum any more except for the thin cheap stuff.

No, I bought my bit of linoleum at an arts and crafts store for 2.99, marked down from 3.99. It's 3mm thick, and just marginally smaller than an A4 sheet of paper at 200x295mm. That's enough to cut three flat flaps or two curved around the mudguard. You can buy smaller and larger sizes as well, and I saw black, which I bought, and transparent stuff apparently of the same quality, which might be interesting.

There are two problems with good quality lino intended for cutting linoprints. One is that the wood quality dense stuff, and the thickness, weighs. The piece I have is about 260g or 9oz. It's enough to cut two curved mudguards or three Buddy Style flat ones, so a set of large mudflaps in it will be around 170g plus fasteners.

The other problem Dan has already mentioned. The stuff I have (probably pretty similar to the material Buddy uses) is stiff enough to make a flat flap which won't curl up under a stream of water sprayed off a tyre. That's good. But if you curve it around the tyre with two fixings in a horizontal line, it is also so stiff that when it catches on something it won't give until it has perhaps ripped your expensive P55 or in my case the P65.

So, if you want a curved mudflap, cheaper linoleum may not last as long, but it might be better for the health of more expensive components. Or leather, if you don't mind the hygiene and appearance issues that put off Dan -- they don't bother me; leather is supposed to wear, and I rarely go off road so the cow dung issues doesn't bother me.

Andre Jute
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: Danneaux on October 02, 2012, 11:48:00 PM
Quote
Not quite...I bought my bit of linoleum at an arts and crafts store...
Got it now, Andre; thanks!
Quote
if you curve it around the tyre with two fixings in a horizontal line, it is also so stiff that when it catches on something it won't give until it has perhaps ripped your expensive P55 or in my case the P65.
nods> Yes, this is the Big Wurry if one's travels include any off-roading where the flap could catch (large holes, drop-offs, mesquite and sagebrush in the desert, sticks and logs in the forest). On my rando bike, I have the PlanetBike Cascadia flaps attached to my ESGE/SKS ChromoPlast 'guards and am happy for mostly on-road use, but woe betide me if they catch something!
Quote
...Or leather, if you don't mind the hygiene and appearance issues that put off Dan -- they don't bother me; leather is supposed to wear, and I rarely go off road so the cow dung issues doesn't bother me.
The cow dung isn't the issue. It is roadkill. There's a lot of it along the rural roads I travel* and much of it is bloated and sun-ripened, which is bad, but not so bad as when the rains hit and it gets uh, juicy. If I have to run through the remains (sometimes can't be avoided on narrow shoulders else my own remains will soon join them), then they stick and ferment on the bike, and that's just nasty. Bad enough to see, but to carry the odor with you as you travel is really bad. Especially in camp, when it attracts predators and scavengers. I don't need to attract coyotes and bear to camp; either will go right after rotting entrails and such.

The other reason I prefer long, easily cleaned mudflaps is Mormon crickets. These are large insects (shield-backed katydids) that swarm every 4-5 years in the Great Basin and cover the roads, ground...everything. They cannot be avoided in such numbers and squish under tires and feet. They are cannibalistic and when some of their numbers die, it attracts others to dine on them. They are so numerous as to cause traffic accidents when their bodies slime the roads and they crawl up pant legs and down shirts. Here are some references:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mormon_cricket
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miracle_of_the_gulls
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Mormon_cricket_cannibals.jpg
And some videos:
http://video.nationalgeographic.com/video/animals/bugs-animals/grasshoppers/crickets_mormon/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ajBLkApnjrE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mgrI5KaPuwI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SA649is6fnQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-wd4MxByopQ

A high-gloss, easily-cleaned mudflap -- any mudflap; I think you can see why I like them -- is worth a lot in such circumstances. A quick squirt from the water bottle and a little judicious scraping with a stick, and I'm oh-so-fresh once again. The mudflap catches the lion's share of the mess and keeps it off me, the bike, and the drivetrain.

All the best,

Dan. (Eww!  :P)
*This is why I get irritated when motorists and fellow cyclists throw away organic and inorganic garbage along the road. Banana peels, orange skins, apple cores, and wrappers attract even more animals to the roadside, where they get run over by cars -- especially at night, which is a real hazard. Mice crawl into nearly empty bottles of energy drinks to sip the sweet drops at the bottom, then can't get traction to leave the way they came and become trapped; their cries draw even larger predators who get squashed as well. I take a folded bin liner with me on day rides to scoop up what trash I can, and nearly always fill it by my return home.
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: Danneaux on October 03, 2012, 07:59:16 AM
Andre, jags,

One sometimes overlooked source of mudflap material is old bicycle waterbottles. These are already pre-curved in radii close to that of a mudguard, and can be simply cut vertically in the desired width; the cupped shape goes far toward catching side-spashes.

The beauty of using waterbottles (besides the variety of colors and logos they afford) is they can be made to attach with one bolt (centered) /or/ two (spaced laterally) so the same flap design can be semi-flexible or rigid depending on how it is mounted. If one narrows the top and uses just one bolt, the flap can pivot freely rearward and so almost entirely avoid damaging the mudguard blade. The only kind of damage that can be incurred with a "bottle-flap" is if it suffers a direct upward vertical load, as the partly curved bottle material is amazingly rigid in that plane. I managed to get in trouble once when I wheeled my bike off a curb while crossing as a pedestrian. The lower rim of the flap caught as the tire dropped off the curb and stressed the mudguard mightily -- not enough to break it, but it did bow the struts and I had to straighten them after. I don't think this would have happened if I had not curved the flap well 'round the sides of the tire.

Just a thought; "bottle-flaps" look very nice and properly finished when mounted.

All the best,

Dan.
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: jags on October 03, 2012, 05:07:04 PM
i'm in the shed all day trying to make mudguards ;)  so far 3 water bidons in the bin ;D ;D
but never give up the ghost i now have a templete cut out with black builders plastic that looks perfect,ah but not sure i like it on me bike (mudguard) looks a bit out of place. ::)
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: Danneaux on October 03, 2012, 05:29:09 PM
Quote
now have a templete cut out with black builders plastic that looks perfect,ah but not sure i like it on me bike
<nods> Yes, it is a big change, visually, and takes some getting used-to. It took me awhile to work up to the Longboard front mudguard!

Try taping it on with duct-tape, jags. That way, it will be secure enough to try for a day and if you don't like it, you can always take it off. Don't leave it more than a day or so, 'cos the sticky backing will gum-up your mudguard and it's tough to get off. If you find yourself in that spot, you can get a long ways removing it if you take a wad of fresh tape and use it as a blotter to remove what's stuck.

All the best,

Dan.
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: jags on October 03, 2012, 06:50:54 PM
 ;) cheers dan.
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: Andre Jute on October 03, 2012, 08:01:47 PM
I have plenty of water bottles, but I must say I'm not enamoured of this idea. I ride on pavements/sidewalks quite a bit as many of our roads are through roads, narrow with very fast traffic, and one of the joys of balloons is that you don't think twice about dropping off an eight-inch kerb. That vertical stiffness of the waterbottle material is unwanted in this situation, for sure, Dan, as you've already experienced.

I can't afford to destroy my P65s; it looks like SKS has stopped making any 28in mudguard bigger than 55mm wide; Getting the Cascadia 29ers (which look like they were made by SKS and might thus disappear as soon as stocks on hand run out)  from Planet Bike in the US, apparently the only other source, would be a killer for carriage and possibly import/customs duties.

Andre Jute
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: Danneaux on October 03, 2012, 08:25:18 PM
Quote
I have plenty of water bottles, but I must say I'm not enamoured of this idea...
<nods> Perfectly understandable; for the same reasons one does not appear on my Nomad.
Quote
I can't afford to destroy my P65s...
Also perfectly understandable, Andre. It is very getting very hard to find wide, lightweight fenders of quality. I may have a line on a couple possibilities. If it pans out, I will pass the information on.
Quote
...the [Planet Bike] Cascadia 29ers (which look like they were made by SKS...)
They surely do look like SKS products, Andre, but I don't believe they are. For one thing, if they're like the rest of PB's line, they are made of solid poycarbonate and are not laminates. No alu core. It would pay to shoot an inquiry their way to check. For what it's worth, I actually prefer PB fenders in many ways. Never, ever use automotive carburetor cleaner near them; even the overspray breaks-down the molecular bonds in the polycarb, causing them to melt; don't ask how I know this.
Quote
Planet Bike in the US, apparently the only other source, would be a killer for carriage and possibly import/customs duties.
Remember, if you're paying by Euro, at present you'd pick up 25% or so in the exchage rate. Something to keep in mind.

All the best,

Dan.
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: Andre Jute on October 04, 2012, 03:15:44 AM
I've made a thread http://www.thorncycles.co.uk/forums/index.php?topic=4805.0  for stainless mudguards I found. They would be even less forgiving than the chromoplastics, I think. -- Andre Jute
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: il padrone on October 04, 2012, 07:28:30 AM
Cheapest of the cheap for mudflaps - a section of PET milk bottle. Able to be made wide or narrow, can be cut as a flat sheet, able to be cut with ordinary scissors, flexible so as not to damage your SKS guards and ever-ready for recycling/remaking.

 ;)
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: Matt2matt2002 on October 04, 2012, 10:47:54 PM
I came across this picture taken on Bishkeck
I note the long lower flap and extremly short top part over the wheel
Comments please folks / Dan


https://www.crazyguyonabike.com/doc/page/pic/?o=1&pic_id=1420204&size=large
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: Danneaux on October 05, 2012, 01:41:05 AM
Hi Matt!

It is a little hard to see from the photo, but the bicycle has rod-actuated brakes and -- unless I miss my guess -- I believe the front brake is a spoon brake. A spoon brake is a primitive sort of brake that is simply a piece of metal that rubs against the tread of the tire. They're pretty reliable (till the tread wears) and they do stop (eventually).

The rigid structure of the rod-brake linkage means it has to press directly down. I'm pretty sure the front mudguard was cut off short so the linkage can clear and the brake can press directly on the tire.

I love this bike...it is such a wonderful mix of the old and new. I would never have thought to see a Tubus Tara front pannier rack on it, and the tape-affixed bottle cages indicate a certain genius in working with available materials and a frame with no bosses or available bottle clamps. That's a Schwalbe Marathon XR up front, and look at those grips and the traditional reinforced-canvas tool bag behind the seat tube. That's probably a sprung-leather saddle (Brooks?), but may have a rubber cover, as my father's 1938 Hercules was equipped. Now, *that's* a different material for a saddle cover, especially when it gets hard and pebbly and starts to disintegrate!

The long lower mudflap is really nice, and is an excellent design to prevent one's feet from getting wet from side-spash. The generous mudguard clearances will allow for a lot of mud and debris to cling to the tire before jamming it to a stop. As an aside, there's two schools of thought on mudguard clearances -- some feel close clearances will best prevent errant spray, while others say "No way; the 'guard has a much better chance of containing spray if it sits a ways from the tire". I've tried both and...except for extremes each way, they are both effective. If you're going into areas where mud, damp playa, or similar sticky-gummy debris can collect and stick to your tires, "More" clearance is definitely preferable to "Less".

So, there you have it; in my eyes, a pretty wonderful adaptation of the new to the traditional, probably extremely reliable and easily repaired in the areas where it'll be used. Perhaps not as efficient as purpose-built kit, but an awful lot of fun and absolutely dripping with the cachet of...Adventure!

Best,

Dan. (All the important bits are there...everything you need and nothing you don't)
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: Matt2matt2002 on October 05, 2012, 09:28:23 AM
Pleased you liked it Dan. I always keep my eyes open for a vintage piece of kit.
Over here we often say, "they don't make 'em like that any more"
To which the answer is often, "and I can see why" but we know better, right?
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: Matt2matt2002 on October 07, 2012, 10:56:06 PM

Over years of careful observation, I have found the common front mudguard really doesn't do a very good job keeping me dry when riding in the wet. They commonly end at about 90/12 o'clock, and this is not the best design for use in foul weather. Especially when a treaded tire is used, the water clinging to it is still moving forward and out of these short mudguards at pretty high velocity and gets flung forward...just in time for me to run into it. As a result, my headlight gets splashed with mud and dirt, and a lot of the wet stuff catches me between my knees and thighs and the bike gets filthy with dirty water, most of which is blown back from the top of the short front mudguard.

I looked at photos and illustrations of French constructeurs' bikes from the Grand Era of touring in the years before and after World War II and again in the 1950s and 1960s; Herse and Singer are the most prominent examples. Nearly every constructeur's bike was fitted with generous front mudguards that curved well forward, over the crown of the tire. When viewed from the right side, they terminated about 1 o'clock to 2 o'clock, depending on the type of brakes used -- brazed-on centerpulls or cantilevers. It was common for the front of the mudguard to terminate at the same height as the brakes. In no case did the mudguard extend as far as the front of the tire; this to prevent damage if the tire contacted a wall. For some examples, see:
http://janheine.wordpress.com/2011/03/21/which-bike-to-ride/
http://janheine.files.wordpress.com/2010/10/windyridgefarewell.jpg
http://janheine.files.wordpress.com/2010/12/gburainier.jpg <-- A more recent recreation by Grand Bois

Andre will quickly recognize this as something Utopia Velo do as well, but with less extension:
http://www.utopia-velo.de/relaunch/index.a4d


Hi Dan.
Great post re the front guard issues.
An example ofcreative thinking for sure.
While out this afternoon on my usual 16 mile loop around the lanes of South West Scotlandshire, I took careful note of the splashes coming back at me as I whizzed through a few puddles and shallow streams.
(Over here we have a few odd wet days now and again)
And sure enough my guards threw back those pesky splashes you refer to.
Hats and helmet off to Dan I thought.

But then I had an idea. Perhaps it has occurred to you Dan but here goes.
Rather than extend the front guard why not experiment with a short/ shallow baffle just inside the end of the guard?
The baffle would catch the water drips being thrown forward into the air and then back towards the bike.

Any views?
I plan to experiment within the next couple of days but would appreciate your initial views and comments.
All the best
Matthew
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: Danneaux on October 08, 2012, 12:49:51 AM
Quote
But then I had an idea. Perhaps it has occurred to you Dan but here goes.
Rather than extend the front guard why not experiment with a short/ shallow baffle just inside the end of the guard?
The baffle would catch the water drips being thrown forward into the air and then back towards the bike.

Proof that great minds think alike, Matt! In this case, we have to give the nod for "firsts" to Ian (triaesthete), who proposed this idea here:
http://thorncyclesforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=4523.msg23865#msg23865

jags is giving it a try on his own Sherpa, and has used a two-pack epoxy to affix the little dam inside the mudguard.

Frankly, I think it is a great idea well worth a try. It is less expensive than acquiring a rear mudguard and stays to repurpose, and looks "factory original" as well.  It's something I'd like to try, and may give a shot on my rando bike, whose front 'guard ends early as well. I do know extending the length of the 'guard on my other Centurion was so successful I was inspired to give it a go on the Nomad, and who knows? This might be, too. It surely is worth a try, and I look forward to hearing how it works for jags and any others who give it a go.

The only caution I would offer is to make the little dam from a flexible material that can deflect or even break off if leaves or other debris get sucked up into the mudguard; you wouldn't want an outright blockage there that would halt the wheel (and you, shortly thereafter). I think the suggestion to use something like electrical tape is a really good idea, as it is durable in the right ways and frangible in the right ways as well, should the unforseen strike. Those SKS mudguards have a nifty little rubber cap at the end. It's removable, and offers a lot of opportunities for clever bodges.

Keep those ideas a-'comin' everyone; they're all welcome and well worth consideration!

All the best,

Dan. (Was feeling guarded about mud...but its just a small flap; I'll uh, "stay" the course...)
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: Andybg on October 08, 2012, 06:56:29 AM
We used to have a bike that looked very similar to that. It was on ald postmans bike probably dating back to the 50's or 60's. My father picked it up from a garage (yard for Dan) sale in Germany when we were posted there in the Late 70's

The only difference I can see is the front brake on ours pulled up under the rim rather than downn on to the tyre. The rear brake was a back pedal affair.

I can imagine a combination of loose front wheel nuts and an emergency stop being interesting.

Looking at the mudguard clearance it looks like the original wheels may have been replaced with 26 rather than the original 27?

When I got my first Thorn last year it was the first time I had cycled with mudguards in 20 years.

It was - wow - what a fantastic invention - why did I ever cycle without.

I blame it on the folly of youth and the mad search for lighter and lighter bikes.

The funny thing is that since I got my Thorn and started cycling much more than in previous years the combined weight of me and the Nomad now is less than it was a year ago with a sub 6kg bike.

Not quite as quick though. On my 20km run into the local town my personal best of 29:45 is still not attainable on the Nomad. I have managed a 30:12 so it is getting close.

I can tell you the ride back afterwards on both occassions has been at a much more sensible speed.
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: Danneaux on October 08, 2012, 07:35:56 AM
Quote
...a garage (yard for Dan) sale...
Oh, we have those too! I sometimes have fun asking those running such things if they'll include everything when they sell the garage, or if the side yard is available separately...by the um "yard". Somehow, they never find it as amusing as I do....

Know what's really scary? When the clothing and department stores hear'bouts advertise "Baby Sales".  :o ::)

Best,

Dan. (who wonders why clothing stores have departments for women's "Foundations" and men's "Furnishings". People are not houses...)

P.S.
Quote
The funny thing is that since I got my Thorn and started cycling much more than in previous years the combined weight of me and the Nomad now is less than it was a year ago with a sub 6kg bike.
Good on ya, Andy! Everything's going the right way!
Quote
Not quite as quick though. On my 20km run into the local town my personal best of 29:45 is still not attainable on the Nomad. I have managed a 30:12 so it is getting close.
Waaaha! Andy! That's not shabby -- still awfully close to 40kph/25mph in round figures over 20km/12.4mi. With mudguards, Man! On your Nomad (an expedition touring bike, lemme remind you!).  :o
Quote
I can tell you the ride back afterwards on both occassions has been at a much more sensible speed.
I should think so! You still get my <applause> !
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: Andybg on October 08, 2012, 12:15:12 PM
Thanks for the comments Dan. I have to say that is not my normal speed on the bike which averages around the 24-28km/h mark dependant on route and loading but sometimes it is just nice to take the bike out for a blast.

I have very heavy wheels (40 spoke Rigida Andre Wheels on tandem hubs with Schwalbe 1.75 Marathon tyres) so it takes a different riding style. A bit like riding a fixed. All your work goes into the hills keeping it up to speed and then on the flat and downhills it almost powers itself.

Cheers

Andy
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: Danneaux on October 11, 2012, 07:49:21 AM
Hi All!

Several people have recenty asked me how I mounted my bottle cages to the steerer of my Sherpa in the past and now my Nomad.

Quote
How did you munt your two bottle holders ont your head spacers?

Here's what I did; you might try something else, but this worked for me...(evolution of the idea):

First on Sherpa...

1) I used CatEye nylon bottle cages. Incredibly light, extremely flexible in al weather, and tough as can be. The back side is comprised of a vertical channel section that self-centers on round tubing. They can be mounted with allen bolts or zip ties. I chose the latter.

2) I plugged the holes from the back side with  rubber allen-socket plugs so the cage would have some "tooth" against the slick anodized surface of the spacers. A section of innertube stretched over the spacer stack would do the same, but look less elegant.

3) I used one zip (cable) tie at the top and bottom mounting slot of each CatEye cage. I use my 4th hand brake cable tool to get the zip ties really, really tight. I cut off the ends flush with the heads using a sharp Swiss Army knife.

All this was not enough to prevent the paired cages from "clocking" (rotating) around the steerer spacers if I struck them with moderate force.

On the Nomad, I improved things:

1) I used vinyl grommets stuffed in the bottle cage channels (I sliced off one of each grommet's "lips" using a single-edged craft razor blade...allowing for a better fit in the channel, while also providing greater friction against the slick surface of the spacers.

2) I used (2) zip ties per slot (4 total) and cross-matched them, so they all pulled tight from the front, with one head on each side at the top and one head at each side at the bottom.

As a result, the paired caged don't "clock" around the steerer, and they don't move in relation to each other. Whatever orientation they have on the steerer and in relation to each other remains fixed the way you installed them, so you really have just one shot. Get it wrong, and you have to redo it...but they're only zip ties, so the only cost is patience.

Next tip: I made sure the bottom of the cages cleared the upper headset race so if they vibrated (the nylon is slightly flexible with a bottle inside; without a bottle, you can step on them and they'll recover) they wouldn't mar the headset finish. On the Nomad, I placed the lower zip ties atop the clampt for the lower T-bar; that made it impossible for the cages to work downward.

Last tip: You can move the cages behind, even with, or ahead of the steerer center, depending on desired/needed  knee clearance when standing. I think the most stable position is co-located with the steerer (centered, in the same plane), but an inch or so either way doesn't move the weight much. I've foudn handling completely unaffected, and use two 1l Zefal Magnum bottles. I do try to drink out of them generally equally, though I've found they sit so close to the steerer, there was no bad effect when one bottle was full and the other half-full. I didn't try it with just one bottle or one full and one empty.

I found it is possible with care to remove the cages from the steerer, with the cages still zip-tied to the spacer stack. For those who also wondered, no, mounting the cages here does not make it more difficult to adjust the headset, provided it has already been adjusted when the cages are first mounted (the spacing between the upper and lower cage mounts is fixed, and so is the stack of spacers between them).

Hope this helps.

Best,

Dan.
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: Danneaux on October 14, 2012, 11:37:28 PM
[Posted on behalf of jags...]

Hi All!

Attached below is a photo of jags' front mudguard extension and "mudguard mascot". Both look good, and a neatly attached extension! Looking forward to hearing how they work in the wet stuff.

All the best,

Dan.
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: jags on October 15, 2012, 12:11:36 AM
haven'yt actually tried it out yet but that viser is abour an eight of an inch from the tire lets hope it keeps my little dog from getting splashed  ;)
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: Danneaux on October 29, 2012, 06:04:00 AM
Hi All!

It has been pouring rain here to beat the band, with as much as 5-6 inches/13-15cm of rain expected to fall between Sunday morning and Monday morning in the Coast Range, where there are concerns about mudslides. It has been pouring in Eugene, as well, which meant it was perfect weather to get out on the Nomad and try out my new Louis Garneau thin neoprene rain booties. This is my first purchased pair; my previous effort produced on the sewing machine lasted 30 years, so not too bad for a bit of coated nylon, some velcro, and a cord and cordlock. They gave out on my 2010 tour, so I've been looking for a replacement ever since. BikeTiresDirect up in Portland has a "stacked" sale -- weekly special, discount, and Gold Member buyer discount, so these came in at only USD$15.

The extended front mudguard worked superbly, and I stayed so much drier than with the short original, just as I hoped. The bulk of the water is directed downward and has lost much of its velocity by the time it exits the 'guard. The bike looked largely unblemished on my return and cleaned up nicely with a blowoff of compressed air. I'm really happy I put the time and effort into making it workable while it was sunny and rain seemed to be in the distant future.

It was really too wet for much in the way of photos, so the best I could manage today came from the end of my own street, where the bike path crosses a small salmon estuary just three blocks from home. The rain paused just long enough for me to take the photos below, looking left (North) and right (South) from the bike path; the river is the Willamette (pronounced "Will-AM-ett" so you can sound like a local when you say it; newcomers invariably say "Willa-METT").

A pretty day all in all, and warm -- it's 10PM/22:00 as I type this, and the temp is still 63F/17C -- flood weather, for sure!

Best,

Dan.
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: jags on October 29, 2012, 03:39:08 PM
well done Dan always worth the efford getting your bike ready for anything you care to throw at it
the sun is shining here in good auld ireland but to change mid week
i have spent the entire morning cleaning my sons van , :-[
he's a great painter but crap at cleaning. ;D ;D
anyway i'm knackered now so no cycling until tomorrow.
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: Andre Jute on October 29, 2012, 03:48:22 PM
[Posted on behalf of jags...]

Hi All!

Attached below is a photo of jags' front mudguard extension and "mudguard mascot". Both look good, and a neatly attached extension! Looking forward to hearing how they work in the wet stuff.

All the best,

Dan.

That's clever, and I have suitable parts in my trousseau. I might try it as even the so-called "long" SKS P65 is too short. Thanks for the idea, Jags. -- Andre
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: jags on October 29, 2012, 05:05:07 PM
no problem Andre i have it stuck on though with 2 pack opoxy glue very strong stuff might leave a glue mark be warned.
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: Danneaux on December 06, 2012, 03:46:18 AM
Hi All!

Time for a Nomad update...

I still love the drop handlebars on my Nomad, but over the course of time and use, found I needed a different bend so I could enjoy the same riding position with a more usual lever placement and feel to match my other single bikes and tandem. This is all according to plan; I figured I would need a change, but wanted to confirm my needs with mileage and use and do the job right once. Besides the lever position being too high, I found the drops on the Zoom anatomic handlebars were too low for comfort in regular use compared to my other single bikes and the tandem.

Andy Blance did a nice job matching my Sherpa riding position on the Nomad by using a 90mm stem and placing the levers high up the 'bars. The problem was the lever placement and also the "open" bend of the anatomic 'bars meant the drops were effectively too low for comfortable regular use.

A couple issues made this change a challenge:

1) Thanks to the influence of "brifters" (brake and shift levers combined, as with Shimano's STI), brake lever hoods have become longer by about 1cm, so handlebars need a shorter reach by about the same amount. I've attached a photo comparing my current (longer) Tektro RL520 levers with the hood from my other bikes' old (and shorter) Dia-Compe AGC levers.

This can be accomplished with a compact handlebar (that has less reach and drop) and by a shorter stem.

The solution was a Bontrager (Trek) 26mm x 44cm SSR VR-C (Variable-Ratio bend, Compact) GC drop handlebar. This is a standard Maes-bend road 'bar, with no cable grooves and parallel tops and drops. What makes it different and "compact" is a shallow reach of 85mm and drop of only 125mm, the latter matching the very useful shallow drop on my other bikes. The shallow reach means I have truly different, more upright position on the tops that is ideal with the interrupter levers for getting my weight rearward on steep downhill single-track.

2) Moving the brake levers forward and down to a more usual position still left me too stretched out with the original stem and the Nomad's longish top tube, so I addressed that problem with a Dimension 26.0 x 60mm uplift stem that I inverted so my 'bar-tops are the same height as the saddle, as I prefer.

Everything fits even better than before. I have my two steerer-mounted 1l water bottles and bottle cap-lifter, compass bell, interrupter levers, bike computer, cue-sheet clip, inclinometer, GPS, Rohloff shifter and room for the pocket tripod/clamp that mounts my GoPro to the left side of the upper T-bar. Even the Ortlieb handlebar bag mounted on the 50mm lower T-bar nicely clears my fingers and the interrupter levers.

Today's long shakedown ride has confirmed the "rightness" of this setup for me, so I'll be padding the 'bars with closed-cell foam Grab-On grips compression-wrapped with Origin-8 padded, textured vinyl tape. The result will be waterproof, dense padding and a slightly larger diameter, a combo that has worked well on my tandem the last 20-odd years.

The only remaining issue will be padding while riding on the hoods. As the attached photo shows, nearly my entire hand rests on these longer hoods, so for added comfort I will need to make or buy some pads for the hoods. It seems I'm not alone in needing these, as they are becoming more available by the day:
http://g-form.com/products/brake-hood-overgrip/
http://www.thegearcaster.com/the_gearcaster/2010/09/g-form-shock-absorbing-brake-hoods-and-pads.html
http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php/788083-Gel-pads-for-brake-hoods

In other matters, I think I am finally coming to terms with my 26x2.0 Schwalbe Duremes. This will come as no surprise to Andre, but I have evidently been running them at unnecessarily high pressures for my largely unladen day rides. I have recently been running my front tire at 27psi/1.86bar and my read at 43psi/3bar and may go even lower on the rear. I have not yet completed my "load-drop" tests, but the bike runs very comfortably and coasts nicely. Before trying it, I would have sworn only 27psi in the front tire would be akin to pushing a loaded wheelbarrow through sand, but that has not been the case so far. The tire deforms very little at the sidewall, and rolls nicely. Tests will continue, and I'll report my full results in a later post.

Best,

Dan.
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: Andybg on December 06, 2012, 08:17:20 AM
Glad all is coming together with the Nomad. I know how important it is to get the right feel on the bike and it sounds like you are pretty much there.

Will keep abrest of the reports on the Duremes and pressures you find work best. I have been happy with my 1.75 Marathons but now I have moved the mudguards up and out the world is my oyster so may try some different tyres next year.

Andy
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: triaesthete on December 06, 2012, 03:08:44 PM
Hi Dan
those bars and levers look spot on for touring. I hope Thorn will make their "mark2" Berthoud shifter compatible 25.4mm bars exactly like this. (Pretty please Andy B/Robin! If you do make them like this I'll buy some more at once.)

Here's hoping!
Ian
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: jags on December 07, 2012, 07:49:17 PM
Dan that lock you have on the rear how do you rate it,
have you a link to where i might buy it on this side of the pond.

cheers
jags.
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: Danneaux on December 07, 2012, 08:32:46 PM
Quote
Dan that lock you have on the rear how do you rate it...
11 on a 10-point scale, jags. I am delighted with it, and wonder how I ever got along without. It is worth it for my peace of mind in the now highly-criminalized area where I live because it prevents a snatch-and-grab theft whenever I am of the bike, even if standing just next to it, when most such thefts occur. These thefts are most commonly perpetuated by meth addicts looking for immediate transport and something they can sell for as little as USD$5 for their next fix. Being desperate means they aren't shy about boosting a bike in daylight with the owner standing by, as I have seen a number of times myself.

The ring-lock is wonderfully convenient and immobilizes the rear wheel by putting a ring of steel right through it between the spokes. Mine allows me to capture a cable on the lock tang or to plug-in any of several cables or chains offered as accessories. I also use it to capture the security tethers on my rear Ortlieb panniers when parked, preventing a quick snatch-and-grab there as well. The model I chose also keeps the key captive while riding, so I can never forget it at home, and I fit a coiled wrist strap so I won't drop the key when I'm away if my riding clothes have no pockets (most of the time I use cycling shorts).

A ring-lock is *NOT* a complete security solution in itself, and should not be used alone when leaving the bike unattended in high-crime areas. For those occasions, I also lock the bike with a stout U-lock and a variety of other means  and try to never leave it alone long enough (or at all) for a thief to get to it (yes, I take the bike into the restroom with me, and into the stall itself if that is feasible -- you would too, if you lived where I do; we now have a local policy of releasing jailed inmates within 24 hours of initial incarceration...for crimes including accused/unconvicted capital murder).

A ring-lock *is* a great convenience and means for securing the bike "for just a sec'" while your back is turned or you are away from it, preventing the kind of throw-a-leg-over-and-ride-like-stink thefts that so often result when a bike is not left overnight. it is always "there" and is something one actually uses because it *is* available and requires minimal fuss. Yes, a bike can still be carried away on a shoulder or with the rear wheel elevated (unless you include a snap-in cable or such as well...very lightweight and compact 'cos the locking mechanism remains on the bike), but it helps and is unexpected -- especially here, where a casual meth-head might be too stoned to notice it. The lock mechanisms on modern/current ring-locks is remarkably secure, though this was a problem on older models with flawed designs that have since been corrected.

Oddly enough, a ring-lock actually works better on a loaded touring bike, 'cos those are usually too heave to pick up and carry very far, and the bags and accessories often cover the lock or make it hard for a thief to see. A ring-lock and plug-in cable make a lot of sense for a loaded touring bike. They make as much sense for an unloaded bike, but don't trust them alone for long-term security when leaving the bike alone in a theft-prone area (i.e. in the City). For their intended purpose and within their limitations, ring-locks are cost-effective security. One just has to respect their limitations and use them appropriately. For what they are and offer, I think they're a fantastic value and wouldn't be without.

Mine is an AXA Defender and I chose the plug-in cable as well.  A number of links to UK vendors can be found in this custom Google search: http://www.google.co.uk/#hl=en&tbo=d&output=search&sclient=psy-ab&q=axa+defender&oq=axa+defender&gs_l=hp.3..0l4.981.2421.0.2496.12.11.0.0.0.0.360.2316.2-7j2.9.0.les%3B..0.0...1c.1.u5sw_F-Kfb4&pbx=1&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.&fp=75e263ab38675344&bpcl=39650382&biw=1280&bih=715

Abus' Amparo makes an excellent competitor to the AXA Defender. For more on this topic, see the following threads:
http://www.thorncycles.co.uk/forums/index.php?topic=4148.msg18856#msg18856
http://www.thorncycles.co.uk/forums/index.php?topic=1944.0
http://www.thorncycles.co.uk/forums/index.php?topic=4987.0

All the best,

Dan.
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: Andybg on December 07, 2012, 08:39:17 PM
My opinion is if a theif is big enough to pick up a loaded touring bike and run off with it then it is probably not a good idea to give chase

Andy
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: martinf on December 07, 2012, 08:45:41 PM
Abus' Amparo makes an excellent competitor to the AXA Defender.

I put Abus Amparo locks on both the visitor bikes we keep at a flat we own on an island off the South Brittany coast.

They are 3-speed bikes with drum brakes, so not perceived as valuable. Theft is rare on the island so a frame lock alone is adequate to stop someone "borrowing" the bike to ride home after a night drinking in the local caf.
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: Danneaux on December 07, 2012, 08:58:11 PM
Quote
My opinion is if a theif is big enough to pick up a loaded touring bike and run off with it then it is probably not a good idea to give chase
Excellent advice, Andy, *especially* when fueled by sufficient amounts of adrenaline and murderous rage, as I would (foolishly) be on such an occasion.

All the best,

Dan. (...who tends to run short of rationality and good sense when his bikes are threatened)
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: jags on December 07, 2012, 09:04:50 PM
thanks dan just put it on the wish list.
its unbelievable the amount of gear you can buy for a bike
the best lights extra,just in case you need to go to the shop at night .
the best tires,  for that bit extra speed.
the Brooks saddle must have .
the sat nav well you could get lost.
the computer ,do i really need to know how far and how far i have gone.
and now here comes the ultimate ,the dynamo wheel and lights absolute must have .
where will it all end how the the tourers of yester year do it when all they had was just the bare essentials your basic steel bike  oil skins for wet gear .
ah men of steel we have become trapped in all the latest tech gear and all i can is fantastic i love it all what will the next 20 years bring should be good hope i'm around to see it. ;)
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: Danneaux on December 20, 2012, 02:26:07 AM
Hi All!

Man, I've been busy with projects the last few weeks, so the poor Nomad had to have some of his own projects deferred, among them installing the interrupter levers. I am just getting to the task but have decided I should take a bit more time with the details; little things count for a lot in the Big Picture.

Accordingly, while the v-brakes are apart seemed a good time to give the stealth treatment to the lead-in pipes. A quick disassembly, the application of two sizes of heat-shrink tubing, a fast reassembly -- et voila! The Batman Bike is that a little bit more stealthy (see attached pic).

Best,

Dan. (...first AC/DC does "Back in Black", then Amy Winehouse does "Back to Black"; Dan's gotta follow with a v-brake tribute)
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: il padrone on December 20, 2012, 05:41:56 AM
Oooh Danneaux! The definitive anal  :D



Now where's that heat-shrink??
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: Danneaux on December 20, 2012, 05:48:06 AM
Quote
Now where's that heat-shrink??
Gotcha, Pete! We're peas in a pod, we are...

All the best,

Dan. (...who is looking forward to seeing your efforts in black or...d'ya know heat-shrink tubing is available in um, yellow?)
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: Andre Jute on December 20, 2012, 05:40:31 PM
Oooh Danneaux! The definitive anal  :D

Now where's that heat-shrink??

Definitely a case for Dr Jute's headshrinker's er, sorry, I mean heatshrinker's couch!

Andre Jute
(reaching for the heatshrink selection always lying on the side table)
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: Danneaux on January 20, 2013, 03:01:30 AM
Hi All!

I realize it has been awhile since I updated the Danneaux's Nomad gallery, so I took my camera with my on today's foggy-cold ride.

Here in Oregon's Willamette (pronounced Will-AM-ett) Valley, we're in the midst of a temperature inversion. While the Coast and Eastern parts of the state are basking in sunshine and temperatures 15F-20F warmer, freezing fog has trapped lots of wood-stove smoke near the ground here, making me wheeze and squeak when outdoors. Packing my inhaler, I set out across the nearby Owosso Bicycle Bridge, one of three across the Willamette River.

Turning to my left, I caught a movement downstream of something white at the end of a nearby river island. Looking closely, I saw it was a bald eagle devouring a fish it had just caught. Several osprey pairs live here, just upstream from a heron rookery. Bald eagles are a little more rare in this stretch of the river, so a real treat when seen. Well worth the ride!

For the closeup in failing light, I used a haze filter in processing to cut out some of the fog and caught it in a 1,000mm (35mm-format equivalent focal length)/2x digital zoom over a 500mm equivalent optical focal length. The wide-angle shot was taken at 25mm (optical) equivalent focal length.

Looking forward to clear skies, forecast for the end of next week.

Best,

Dan.
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: ianshearin on January 20, 2013, 03:53:59 AM
Geez Dan, you get some odd weather there, Ive seen fog here like that but those red lightning bolts must be unique to the USA.....
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: Danneaux on January 20, 2013, 03:55:20 AM
Quote
those red lightning bolts must be unique to the USA...
That's how we find the eagles, Ian.

 ;)

All the best,

Dan.
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: Danneaux on February 26, 2013, 02:23:33 AM
Hi All!

Today was a stellar day in Danneauxville, as my SunMate umbrella hat arrived in today's mail from Korea. I've been looking at a variety of collapsible sun hats for awhile, and the final choice was down to this one, a rival from Vietnam, or a contender from Thailand. This one edged out the rest for a variety of reasons:
Aluminized outer fabric with a nice, dark blue inner
Sturdy metal frame that opens and closes securely and has blunted rib-tips
Vented crown/canopy
Chin strap to help prevent blowoff
Carry sack
64.7cm/25.5" diameter is "just right" for head-and-shoulders protection
Adjustable elastic head band that "floats" the canopy above my head for air circulation
Weighs only 147.4g/5.2oz
Packs to 39x5cm/15.5x2in
USD$15.99 delivered

True, I can't use it when the wind picks up, but it will be ideal for those times when the wind is calm and the air temperatures are hovering right around 52C/125F and 60/140F surface temps on the desert floor, in canyons, or in the middle of dry-lake beds (photo). Best of all, it will tuck right under my rear rack straps, next to the dry sack that holds my sleeping bag, silk liner, pillow, and sleeping pad. It deploys in seconds and will be ideal with my Alite Monarch Butterfly rocking camp chair. It is no fun to sit on hot melted tar at rest breaks; it sticks to the skin and burns, taking patches off when it is peeled off after cooling.

This will be much more fun when desert touring with the Nomad this Spring!

Best,

Dan. (...who thinks this may also prevent mind-reading)
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: il padrone on February 26, 2013, 03:41:06 AM
Staggering how it can be so green in places like Portland and Eugene, then so absolutely barren just over the ranges in the desert. Seems even more of a contrast than the difference between Melbourne and say, Broken Hill. The distance to get out there is about 1000kms. How far apart are these two photos, Dan?


BTW, just saw a friend's slideshow about touring through Washington, Oregon and California. Great scenery. He reckons Eugene is a real hippy town - looks like you might fit in Dan ??? :D
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: Danneaux on February 26, 2013, 04:22:34 AM
Hi Pete!

Yes, there are some real climatic contrasts in Oregon. Going from West to East, there's the Coast and Coast Range of mountains, the Willamette Valley, the volcanic Cascade mountain range, then the high-desert plateaus of Central Oregon. Eastern and southeastern Oregon really is a different world.

Eugene is so green because it is in the rain shadow of the Coast range, one of the wettest regions in the country. Valsetz gets 128in/3.25m of rain annually. The prevailing storms come in over the Coast range, stall against the Cascades, and dump their loads of water on us. The Willamette Valley  (pronounce it "Will-AM-ett" so you'll sound like you grew up in "ORY-gun") has a pretty moderate climate. At the extremes I recall it getting as cold as -12F/-24C and as warm as 112F/44C on my front porch here in Eugene. Usually, it runs between the low 20sF/-5C and about 95F/35C tops with a lot of the summer in the upper 70sF/25C. Most of this winter has been really mild with only one light snowfall to date, though Valley winters feel much colder because of the humidity. In Central Oregon, I've gone outside in 5F-15C temps and put on tire chains in the snow wearing only jeans and a golf shirt -- it is dry-cold there and feels much warmer for it (makes good powder for skiing, too!).

Eugene is right at 62mi/100km from the Coast and the same distance from the summit of the Cascades.

Desert like in the photo above (Silver Lake) is as close as 125mi/240km in air miles from Eugene. the Alvord desert is about 240mi/400km by air from Eugene.

There's a surprising amount of real desert in the state, including the Alvord ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alvord_Desert ...and... http://annemckinnell.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/california_20130101__MG_8690-Edit-Edit_lg.jpg ), North Lake County's sand dunes ( http://www.christmasvalley.org/sanddunes.php ), and the Lost Forest ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Lost_Forest_Sand_Dunes_Lakeview_BLM,_Oregon.jpg ).

One of my favorites is the Black Rock Desert in neighboring Nevada:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Kluft-photo-Black-Rock-Desert-Aug-2005-Img_5081.jpg

Quote
[Your friend] reckons Eugene is a real hippy town
Oh, he's absolutely correct, Pete, it is where Old Hippies come to live and die. Tie-dyed clothing is still popular here, and lots of people still say "cool" and "far out, Man". The area is often referred to as Berzerkley (Berkeley, California) North.
Quote
...looks like you might fit in Dan
Trust me, Pete...I've got a ways to go to "fit in" with the hippie lifestyle.  ;)

All the best,

Dan.
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: il padrone on February 26, 2013, 05:16:39 AM
Hi Dan

Those are much more barren desert regions than anything we have, apart from areas of the Lake Eyre Basin I guess. Most Australian desert regions are actually vegetated, and even have large areas of sparse woodlands. The closest 'desert' to us here is the Big Desert and Little Desert in the Mallee of western Victoria which are 400-600kms(280-400miles) away. But they are not really deserts, named as such because they have very sandy soils and no surface water. They actually have reasonable rainfall - about 400mm/16" annually.

Big Desert fire - an ecological burn for fuel control and regeneration
(http://www.dse.vic.gov.au/__data/assets/image/0014/100931/BigADTBigDesert.jpg)


The real deserts don't begin until you get out of Victoria and then most of our true deserts are in South Australia, Western Australia and the Northern Territory. Still here, a lot of the desert lands are well vegetated, as we found on our tour to The Centre. I guess there is a much greater level of plant and animal evolution to survive (and thrive) in the desert here.

Desert Oak woodland, near Angus Downs, NT.
(http://i1327.photobucket.com/albums/u666/petesig26/Red%20Centre%20Way%20and%20the%20road%20to%20Old%20Andado/P1010880_zpsf07715bc.jpg)
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: Danneaux on March 02, 2013, 04:53:53 AM
Hi All!

It is early Spring in Oregon's Willamette Valley, and I took the Nomad out for a quick 66km ride in the countryside north of Eugene this afternoon, averaging 27kph with a headwind on the way back (of course). The air smelled of growing things, with new little lambs, daffodils, and crocuses in the fields. The weather is still unsettled, and we (the Nomad and I) dodged a few storms and were caught by others. Nevertheless, it was a great ride, as all are, and I'm glad I went. Here's a few photos from the trip...

Best,

Dan.
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: JimK on March 02, 2013, 05:36:51 AM
Beautiful country! Where I am it is still mud and old snow. Hints of warmth from the sun much not much. The winter tires should come off mid-month & back to Supremes which should be fun - they corner well!
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: Andybg on March 02, 2013, 08:00:28 AM
Fantastic photos Dan. Spring is definetly in the air.

27kph average!!!!!!!

I'll have to do some more training before I come over for a visit (or maybe just pack a tow rope)

Andy
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: ianshearin on March 02, 2013, 08:50:50 AM
Great pics Dan  :)

Im interested in the 27kph you were doing, that seems high for a touring bike, is that your normal average or were you pushing it?
What tyres were you using on that run?

I get my Bike Monday so I am looking forward to see what sort of speed I will be getting on a casual long ride. I was expecting a lot less than your average speed but would be pleasantly surprised if I could manage 20+ kph
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: Andybg on March 02, 2013, 09:37:52 AM
Hi Ian

My averages for a touring bike range between 20-25kmh depending on terain (hills really kill averages) and on the loaing of the bike (between 22kg (bike and bits) to 60kg (bike plus load). It can drop to 18 when towing a heavy trailer.

It is very easy to get hung up on averages but they are very suseptible to lots of factors (including wind and to a lesser extent wet roads).

For planning purposes I work on an averge of 20kph when working out how long I will be out on the bike.

Hope this helps

(Yes Dan is quick)

Andy

Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: Matt2matt2002 on March 02, 2013, 10:20:47 AM
Hi All!

It is early Spring in Oregon's Willamette Valley, and I took the Nomad out for a quick 66km ride in the countryside north of Eugene this afternoon, averaging 27kph with a headwind on the way back (of course). The air smelled of growing things, with new little lambs, daffodils, and crocuses in the fields. The weather is still unsettled, and we (the Nomad and I) dodged a few storms and were caught by others. Nevertheless, it was a great ride, as all are, and I'm glad I went. Here's a few photos from the trip...

Best,

Dan.

Hi Dan.
I thought all you folks the other side of the pond were in mph?
Weight always appears in lbs and you fill your gas tanks with gallons (not the same vol. as ours I know).

I have yet to establish an average mph/kph on my Old Bird but think she's a goer  ;)
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: Danneaux on March 02, 2013, 10:21:45 AM
Hi guys!

Just about to head to bed here, as it is well into t'morrow here already.

When I'm in late-Spring shape, my running average on my 32lb/14.5kg touring bikes often hovers around 17-21mph/27-34kph on flat ground in largely windless conditions when I push it. Add in some hills or wind or me going with the flow, and that typically drops to 15.6mph/25kph. This is, of course, all unladen or lightly loaded (2l of water, 2.26kg in the handlebar bag, maybe 1 kg in the underseat bag or rack pack).

This is early in the season and on the heavier Nomad so yes, I was pushing it, and hard. That's why I kept the distance shorter. I ended tired but not dead and any aches on arrival soon left. I was doing better on the outgoing northern leg, but by late afternoon, ran into that headwind on the way back. In Summer it reverses and I try to beat North as far as I can as early as I can, 'cos the wind starts coming down the Valley like clockwork at 10:30AM and it just bats me up. I could see my speed increase today when I went down on the drops. 'Couldn't ride without them after so many years with.

I'm a spinner, pedaling fast and light and shifting to keep my cadence up (cadence first, speed second. Think: Diesel truck). I actually tried mashing briefly at ~80RPM today, and I think the Rohloff rewards a nice, smooth spin (but that's my default, so it may just have been me being more comfortable). My typical cadence is 110-120RPM, and I spent nearly all day in Gear 11/direct drive @ 55 gear-inches or Gear 12 @ 62 gear-inches, my two favorite level-ground/still-air cruising gears on my half-step derailleur bikes, so it felt familiar. I am so glad I changed to a 36x17 for my needs. It gave me a true High range (37"-80") for cruising that is silent when pedaling and a true Low range (15"-33") that is noisier but great for the hilly stuff. 80 gear-inches may sound pretty wimpy at the top end, but it puts me around 45kph when it is wound-out and anything beyond that, I coast. The real benefit of the gearing change is it gave me my same familiar gears from the derailleur bikes. When the wind picked up, I dropped to my Gear 10 @48", and in gusts I dropped to my familiar headwind gear of 42 (Gear 9). The 38-gear incher conquers all the little roller-hills, as before.

Tire pressures were an experiment today. I'm running 26x2.0 Schwalbe Duremes, and I aired them F/R to 29/34psi // 2/2.3bar. It worked pretty well, but I did stop briefly and let an additional "puff" out of the front tire. I checked when I got home, and it was at 27psi/1.9bar and felt more comfortable but on the edge of noticeably losing efficiency. I'll probably go back to 29psi/2bar. I think I got away with so little air in the front 'cost 1) I was largely unladen except for the HB bag and two 1l bottles up front and 2) I'm running a 590M frame and to use compact drops with it, I'm also running a 60mm stem. Bottom line, not a lot of my weight is directly over the front wheel; the brake hoods where I place my hands are about 4.25in/10.8cm behind the front axle centerline. My back is at about 45 when riding the brake hoods.

I tried playing with the speed, my cadence, and the gearing on the ride, and I found the bike would very happily trundle along at about 14.4mph/23kph. A fun pursuit is to catch-up riders ahead, and I dispatched several on heavy bikes and those little pursuits were around 29kph briefly in the 62" gear, but I couldn't keep it up. It wasn't like I was going to cough up a lung or anything, but I really felt it this early in the season. I need to start laying in some 200km days back-to-back to get really ready for my Spring tour. Over that longer distance and in shape, I would expect my running average to drop to around 15.6mph/25.6kph. For comparison my last 400km ride on the much lighter (32lb/14.5kg) rando bike, I averaged 13.3mph/21kph in 10 of the 24 hours of total riding time*, and that included a lot of climbing. the last 14 hours would have likely been faster 'cos much was downhill. It also took me till mid-August to get in that kind of shape. With a load on the Nomad for touring the back of beyond, all bets are off. I'll probably keep to my daily average distance of ~73mi/117km and the running average will be whatever it is, probably edging down toward around 12mph/19kph, depending on hills, winds, and surface. I often grind along with a full load at around 2.5-3.5mph/4-5.6kph on steep gravel and dirt grades.

Compared to my lighter rando bikes and the tandem, I would expect to average around 15mph/24kph on long rides on level round. I haven't done any for comparison yet; my 200 km rides were in hilly-mountainous terrain and on logging roads, so were much slower than that. I was also "exploring". That's part of the reason I flogged myself a bit today, to see how it might do. I can't wait till I'm in better condition to see what "groove" it falls into naturally. It it happens to be as low as 10-12mph/16-19kph, I'll not be unhappy. As Andy so astutely pointed out, anything can/does skew an average, so it really shouldn't be a prime measure, just one data point among others.

*My PlanetBike Protege 9 computer is great except it only figures average speed on a 10-hour timebase. Go past 10 hours and it keeps the average up to that point but shows an "E" (Error) for any time thereafter -- sad.

My impression is the Nomad is not as fast as the rando bike, but when I look at the running average on the corrected computer readout, it isn't as slow as it seems and is amazingly close to my other bikes. Part of that impression is the Nomad's almost complete lack of the high-frequency vibration I experience on the rando bike with its 700x32C road slicks running 85psi/5.9psi. I can spread my fingers and they don't even quiver on the Nomad. On the rando bike, they sometimes blur at the tips. The difference? High-volume tires run at low pressures. Except for the 26x1.5s on the tandem, the Sherpa and Nomad are my first real experience with fat roadie tires. It is a lot to wrap my mind around and the results are contrary to my old roadie riding experience, but they don't seem to hold me back very much at all. It is amazing to ride over concrete expansion joints and not feel them. At all.

Remember, this is a Nomad rather than an RST, RT or Raven, and it is a heavy bike -- about 20kg bare as I have it setup dry and unladen. It feels much like when I have ridden my tandem solo (it weighs 21kg). It doesn't exactly jump to speed (the lighter Sherpa was livelier), but once there, it is pretty easy to keep the momentum going. Really, I think it acquits itself remarkably well for an expedition bike really designed for and intended to carry massive loads. Business of Life things have interfered with my finishing the bike -- I still have to install the lights and charging system and wrap the 'bar padding, then done -- but I have been meaning to rob the 25x1.5 skinwall slicks off the tandem to give a go for a day. They made the Sherpa feel like a jet fighter plane when accelerating, as they are so much lighter than the Duremes (and treadless and flat-prone and have less air volume and smaller tubes, etc). It would be fun to see what effect they have on the Nomad. Of course, they will alter the effective geometry a bit, but I'd like to see what it feels like briefly before going back to the Duremes.

Hope something in here helps, Ian. It is not a contest, just a series of data points, and I don't make a point of riding fast (I'm bog-slow compared to many of the other riders around here on lightweight racing bikes). I'd always rather emphasize the enjoyable aspects of a ride like scenery or good conversation with a partner than the distance or speed and usually don't make a point of noting how far or fast as I don't want to fall into the trap of an over-riding self-competitive goal. Been there, done that, enjoyed it less than what I do now. In this case, I was deliberately trying to answer the same questions as Ian's: "Wot'll she do?".

I've had the bike for about 6 months now and need to post my notes and impressions of the Rohloff. The balance is on the favored side, and closely mirrors what Andy Blance wrote in Living with a Rohloff.

Time for sleep.

Best,

Dan.
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: Danneaux on March 02, 2013, 10:26:45 AM
Quote
I thought all you folks the other side of the pond were in mph?
Weight always appears in lbs and you fill your gas tanks with gallons (not the same vol. as ours I know).
Yep. Matt, my dream is to live long enough to see the Yew Essay adopt the metric system as standard. At nearly 53, I'm not sure I'll make it. There's a lot of opposition, and it is holding us back and costing us dearly. By putting things in both standards, I figure I'm doing my small part and staying in practice "just in case" we have an outbreak of good sense and go Decimal.
Quote
I have yet to establish an average mph/kph on my Old Bird but think she's a goer
Oh, she looks fast, Matt; a goer she is, no doubt about it!

Best,

Dan. (...who is really off to bed this time, g'night all)
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: jags on March 02, 2013, 02:04:15 PM
don't think i ever got over 13mph average on the sherpa and i was going well  i can guarantee it will never see 15 mph average  not unless i loan it to my son. ;D
the supream tires made a big difference to the sherpa i had  marathon plus on and hated them so the lighter supreams were a god send i keep them at 70 pressure seem's fine to me.

Dan your an animal on a bike how am i gonna slow you down. 8)
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: Danneaux on March 04, 2013, 12:20:05 AM
Hi All!

After a long search, I think I have found the ideal handlebar tape to compression-wrap over my Grab-On foam grips -- Serfas' Textured Ultra Grip 'Bar Tape. I paid USD$24 for mine, and it turned out to be worth every penny. See:
https://www.serfas.com/products/view/253/referer:products%7Cindex%7Cbike-accessories%7Cbar-tape

Why?

It has an adhesive backing that is secure, yet allows for re-wrapping without sticky residue if you need to adjust your wraps as you go.
The surface is washable.
There's just enough surface grip to hold on nicely to bare hands or gloves, yet it isn't sticky and won't pick up dirt.
The black color I chose is a dead-on match for the frame's matte finish. Not flat or shiny, just a nice soft satin finish. No goofy logos, either; just a nice sort of wavy-patterned texture.
It is 1/3 longer than other 'bar wraps. This was a big draw for me, as I am running 44cm wide 'bars, and I wanted to wrap the tape over my foam Grab-Ons to protect them from weather and sun. A similar setup on the tandem and Miyata has lasted nearly 25 years and still looks fresh. The tape protects the foam and the foam has enough give to keep the tape from wearing through. The combination of the two makes a nice, large 'bar diameter to spread pressure evenly across my hands. The padded tape compresses the foam so the lot is firm without being squishy or hard, and the end result is highly shock-absorbent.
It is stretchy and has rebound and wraps beautifully. My little trick when wrapping is to insert the end plugs, but leave them clear of the bar ends by about 3mm. When I start the wrap, I stretch it a bit and the tape snuggles nicely around the end of the 'bar padding. When done, I fully insert the plugs and the ends of the 'bars are fully finished in unwrinkled tape.

The package includes strips to go 'round the brake lever clamps and some chrome-plastic end plugs as well as some really high-quality, non-stretchy finishing tapes. I hate the look of even nice finishing tapes, so I used some super glue to secure the end of the wrap to itself on the underside of the 'bars. Instead of the chrome end plugs, I used my favorite Velox rubber ones with a sectioned 1/2" hole plug in the center over the expansion screw for a finished look.

Because I'm me, I went out to the garage and tested the abrasion resistance of the little leftover scraps compared to some Deda Elementi foamy "cork" tape. The Deda wore through in a blink, while the Serfas held on through several thousand more abrasion cycles and barely looked scuffed. I'm hoping this will translate to long wear in use.

By the way, those are BikeBrakes below the brake levers. I use them instead of the Click-Stand mini-bungees when parking with my Click-Stand or leaning the bike against a wall, tree, or fence rail. See: http://www.bikebrake.com/ They snuggle close to the handlebars, yet are easy to pinch and deploy using the little "wings" on either side of the bands. They hold onto the 'bars securely and don't fall off, yet hold the brake lever shut with just the right tension.

Best,

Dan. (...who can now say, "Cut! That's a wrap!" without shooting a film)
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: jags on March 04, 2013, 12:48:04 AM
very well done dan that was a long time coming but worth the wait. ;)
the guy never got back to me on the brooks tape, >:( so i might just get some of that tape you have .
anyway Dan well done another fine job so that has to be the final touch. ;D
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: Danneaux on March 04, 2013, 01:02:37 AM
Quote
that has to be the final touch
Hi jags!

Welll...I have a few more details in mind. For example, I still need to wire-in my head- and taillights and the charging system as I did on Sherpa. I should have done so long before this, but other things intervened and I haven't had the chance. I'm still nibbling away at the Chainglider details with Hebie, and *then* I'll likely be done!  ;D

Eh, no...wait. I'm still investigating little pads for the brake hoods as well. I am evaluating a couple, but they suffer from adhesive problems. Still working on that.

Gettin' there. Thanks for the kind words; I'm really pleased with the result, and that was some nice tape to work with. Fingers crossed it will hold up in the long run.

All the best,

Dan.
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: Andybg on March 04, 2013, 06:59:04 AM
Looking fantastic Dan. Having the gearshifter on the accessory bar really makes the bars look very clean. How are you finding it in practice? Are you still happy with the setup?. Love the card with the gear ratios on! Maybe you will get round to one day making a new Rohloff shifter with the gear inches on it rather than the gear numbers. Or maybe by then you will have moved to gear cms

Andy
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: Andre Jute on March 04, 2013, 01:51:04 PM
Nice clean installation, Dan. That gear knob is near enough when you're riding the hoods. It loooks like those bars came from the factory with that tape on. -- Andre Jute
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: moodymac on March 04, 2013, 04:42:06 PM
Dan,

  I thought you had a bar for a bag on the stem.  Also, what is that black (of course) box that some of your wiring is passing through?

Absolutely beautiful bike.

Tom
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: John Saxby on March 04, 2013, 05:32:01 PM
Very nicely finished indeed, Dan. The fotos also show your over-de-bar mounting of the Rohloff shifter very well -- leads me to think that, with rando bars, the shifter would be even closer to the same plane of the forward bend in the bars.

Nice to find products with No Icky-Sticky Residue, eh?  Whenever I can, for that very reason, I use gaffer's tape (which I get from Lee valley Tools) in preference to duct tape or old-style cloth friction tape. (Both of those still have their uses -- duct tape + epoxy for emerg repairs to canoe hulls, and cloth friction tape for the blades of my hockey sticks...)

Saw your brake-bands, too.  May think of using those for my Click-Stand, in preference to the C-S bungees-with-tabs.

Lotsa good detail--thanks!

J.
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: jags on March 04, 2013, 06:00:40 PM
ah if only i could post photos of my sherpa  :'( :'( ;)
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: Danneaux on March 04, 2013, 06:30:09 PM
Hi All!

Really quick, 'cos I have to leave in a few moments to check on the little cabin at Yachats on the Oregon Coast (look to see what I need for some wall-work there and to see if the guy I hired to cut the lawn...has): I'll answer some of the questions more fully on my return.

Tom -- also really quick -- I am running a 55mm Thorn Accessory T-bar (the kind usually used to mount a Rohloff shifter) low on the steerer as a handlebar bag mount. That little plastic box is the mounting bracket for the Ortlieb HB bag. The upper T-bar (the one where I actually have the shifter mounted) is the standard Thorn 105mm Accessory T-bar, intended for...accessories! With my particular setup, this let me move the HB bag as close as possible to the steerer for minimum effect on handling, while not obscuring access to the lid or pinching my fingers (*lots* of clearance between fingers and bag, even when operating the interrupter brake levers). The longer T-bar on top works with the head tube angle to place the shifter above and slightly forward of the handlebars, so there are no finger-hand clearance problems there, either. I can and do operate the shifter either from the end like a doorknob or by rolling it as I would if it were mounted on straight 'bars -- best of both worlds!

Mounting the shifter to a T-bar leaves the handlebars free and clear and allows me to (fairly quickly) swap from drops to straight/comfort 'bars as desired if I wish at some point.

Thanks so much for the kind words, all.

Best,

Dan. (...who is about to see if the Coastal weather forecasts are correct, but will take a rain jacket in case they aren't)
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: Andybg on March 04, 2013, 06:58:47 PM
Ok - who gave Dan the day off?
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: Danneaux on March 05, 2013, 06:38:41 AM
Hi All!

I'm back; things at Yachats looked pretty good, but it is coming up on another lawn cutting, so I'll call the guy. I also had a chance to survey needed wall work. I have to replace some of the paneling disturbed after an electrical upgrade this last Fall, and make an access panel so I can run extra, discrete circuits in future. I'll get it all drawn out and figured, then head back to do the actual job. Meanwhile, to answer Andy's question...
Quote
Having the gearshifter on the accessory bar really makes the bars look very clean. How are you finding it in practice? Are you still happy with the setup?
Andy, so far it has met and exceeded my expectations. As you point out, it makes the handlebars really clean and leaves them unobstructed. As Andre pointed out, it really isn't much of a reach from the brake hoods, and I can actuate it by rolling (as when the shifter is mounted on a straight handlebar), with my fingertips, or from the end (as I would approach and grasp a door knob). I can spin the shifter as many as seven clicks at a time, so it neatly addresses my concerns about Rohloff's even gearing when in the lower range. I'm used to logarithmic [wider] spacing between my lower derailleur gears; with the Rohloff, I'm free to "skip" gears by spinning more than one in the brief moment before I start pedaling again.

I'm so pleased with being able to access the shifter from the end, I think that alone would convince me to mount it on a T-bar even if I weren't running drops. It just seems a more natural movement for me, and I feel like I have a bit more leverage to operate it and it does allow for finger-spinning of the shifter knob. If I can find the time, I'll take a video showing the various ways I shift it, then post it to my YouTube channel (TheSherpaRider).

My favorite road-bike shifters are mounted on the downtube (I've never used "brifters"), so any slight delay in reaching for the Rohloff on a T-bar is lightning-fast in comparison. The T-bar shifter is as close as bar-end shifters and even more conveniently located for me and take place as quickly as they did on Sherpa with bar-end shifters. Shifter placement is a highly individual preference, but this setup has worked out very well for me to date. Having tried the shifter on a T-bar below the handlebars, I prefer this location. Besides, the upper location provides a handy platform for the GPS, the SkyMounti inclinometer, and room on the left side for the Rowi camera clamp that holds the GoPro HD Hero2.

Several of you have written to ask for a detail shot of the setup from the front, so I've attached a couple photos showing it from that angle. There's a lot going on up front. For those who have asked, the gadgets and accessories you see are:
CueClip cue sheet holder: http://www.cueclip.com/CueClip.html
SkyMounti inclinometer: http://www.skymounti.com/html/gb.html
Avenir compass-bell: http://www.amazon.com/Avenir-78-27-022-Compass-Bell/dp/B001C3EFPU
PlanetBike Protege 9.0 wired bike computer: http://ecom1.planetbike.com/8002.html
Tektro RL520 Aero v-brake levers: http://www.sjscycles.co.uk/tektro-tektro-rl520-aero-v-brake-levers-black-prod14956/
Tektro RL740 interrupter/cross-top auxiliary brake levers: http://www.sjscycles.co.uk/tektro-tektro-rl740-top-mount-v-brake-lever-24-mm-od-handlebar-prod25060/
BikeBrake brake-holding bands (4): http://www.bikebrake.com/
CatEye BC-100 nylon bottle cages (2): http://www.cateye.com/en/products/detail/BC-100/
Zfal Magnum 1l water bottles (2): http://www.amazon.com/Zefal-Magnum-Black-Water-Bottle/dp/B0044Q9NX6/ref=cm_cr_pr_pb_t
Garmin Oregon 400T GPS: https://buy.garmin.com/shop/shop.do?pID=14904&ra=true
Garmin Bike/Cart mount: https://buy.garmin.com/shop/shop.do?pID=11411
(QBP by Kalloy UNO) Dimension 60mm x 26.0mm riser stem, inverted: http://harriscyclery.net/product/dimension-threadless-stem-60mm-125-degree-black-1-1-8-26.0-sku-sm2356-qc49.htm
Trek/Bontrager SSR VR-C 26.0mm x 44cm compact handlebars: http://bontrager.com/model/09170
Serfas' Textured Ultra Grip 'Bar Tape: https://www.serfas.com/products/view/253/referer:products%7Cindex%7Cbike-accessories%7Cbar-tape
Velox black rubber expanding bar plugs (2) http://www.rivbike.com/product-p/gt41.htm
Ortlieb Ultimate 5 HB bag mounting bracket
Thorn 55mm Accessory T-bar: http://www.sjscycles.co.uk/thorn-accessory-bar-t-shaped-55-mm-extension-0-deg-prod11041/
Thorn 105mm Accessory T-bar: http://www.sjscycles.co.uk/thorn-accessory-bar-t-shaped-105-mm-extension-0-deg-prod11040/

Having the shifter on the T-bar makes shifting an easy but deliberate act. "Deliberate" in this case means it encourages the same sort of momentary pause I employed when friction-shifting derailleur drivetrains over the last 35 or so years. As a result, my Rohloff box has a pretty easy life.

One of my goals with the T-bar mounted shifter was to future-proof the bike to a degree. When Andy Blance and I were discussing my setup during the Thorn build, he expressed a concern that I might like drops now, but wondered what I would do when I got old (Never!  :D) and might wish to use straight or comfort handlebars. By getting the 590 Medium frame and mounting the shifter on a T-bar, I can accommodate anything from drops (with a 60mm stem) to straight or comfort handlebars without having to alter the shifting; a change in stem extension will do. A cable-coupler would allow me to swap handlebar types fairly quickly.

Best,

Dan. (...who can't handle bars but does fine with handlebars)
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: Andybg on March 05, 2013, 07:12:56 AM
Thanks for the update Dan. As you know I am cosidering purchasing a MK2 Nomad later in the year and considering going for a medium frame as you have to give me a longer term freedom on bars used. I am seriously considering copying your setup of the shifter although planning on going with track bars and Ergon GP5 bar ends. It will let me keep the barends the same length and avoid the hand half on/half off the shifter that is the norm.

The only other idea idea I have had in terms of making the changeover from one bar type to the other is the addition of a clamping spacer on the steerer so I can remove the whole handle bar/stem setup without affecting the headset.

All still at the planning stage but sometimes that is the best part.

Andy
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: Danneaux on March 05, 2013, 07:36:59 AM
Quote
All still at the planning stage but sometimes that is the best part.
It sure is, Andy -- lots of fun to be had!

If there's anything I can do to help, give a shout. I think your proposed setup would work well. If you rarely ride on the drops, the track bar/Ergon GP5 setup would essentially duplicate an on-hoods riding position, just as you mentioned in our communications. I do feel it is well worth a try. Speaking for myself, I would miss being able to hover my fingers over the brake levers while on the bar-ends as I do when riding the brake hoods. That doesn't seem to be a problem for most people who ride straight 'bars and bar-ends, so it is probably just my unfamiliarity with other setups that would make me uneasy with it.

Beyond individual preference and ergonomics, the only drawback I can see with my setup for someone else is it requires moving one's hand from the 'bar to shift...but that is also true if most of the time is spent riding on bar-ends; a move is still required to slide the hand inward to the flat-bar grip to actuate the Rohloff shifter. Depending on setup, it is possible the reach is could be about the same with either setup, and perhaps even a bit closer with my upper T-bar arrangement over drops.

As mentioned, being able to access the shifter from the end (as when grasping a doorknob) is a big positive factor in my use. If the weather holds, I'll try to shoot that video showing how I use the shifter on the T-bar. I think that will go far in deciding if such a setup is right for you.

I think the clamping spacer is a terrific addition, completely avoiding any effect on headset adjustment, just as you said. If you are running a lower T-bar to mount a handlebar bag or lights, it would have the same effect as the clamping spacer. For what they offer, the 105mm T-bars are pretty light at 119.3g/4.2oz complete with end-caps and bolts, and the 55mm ones are even lighter.

All the best,

Dan.
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: il padrone on March 05, 2013, 07:41:31 AM
Looking all very good, and remarkably professionally finished off there Dan. You have the lot on your bars, I must admit. I had some of these extras (Skymounti inclinomater, a compass - albeit tiny one on a thermometer tag) on my bars. However over time these have dropped off/broken, but now with the Garmin I have a compass, and the Cateye Adventure computer has an inclinometer as well as a thermometer - although a bit subject to error in the full sun. You may actually be able to rationalise the compass and Skymounti ???

Another thing -  a lot of my riding friends use rubber bands for a hand-brake. I used one myself for a few years but found - a) they often did not hold the brake tight enough and b) they eventually failed due to UV. Another option you may be able to use when the rubber bands you have fail could be what I now use. I have a very old toe-strap that sits looped on my bars and I just place it around the brake and tighten. No slipping, it holds the brake tight and lasts much longer than rubber. You could easily have one looped around the bars next to your cycle computer, and slip it across to lock on the front interupter lever. I really only find a need for the one brake locked on for parking and the front is the one to do.

Just a couple of ideas  ;)
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: Danneaux on March 05, 2013, 08:05:26 AM
Quote
Just a couple of ideas
Good suggestions, Pete!

I'm hoping the BikeBrake bands will last a bit longer; they're supposed to be made of a synthetic rubber compound that is UV resistant (I got mine for USD$1 apiece on a closeout last year). As with the Click-Stand bungees, I do find I have to block up both brakes if I am packing a heavy 50kg touring load, but that's a lot of weight for anything! If they fail, then your idea of using a toe strap is just about failure-proof and an ideal alternative to keep in mind; those toe straps often come in handy for lashing duties of all sorts while on-tour. I typically tuck one in my bags just in case of need, so I will have it handy if the bands fail.

Strange as it may seem, I added the compass *because* I have the Garmin! The compass in my particular Garmin consumes the batteries at a faster rate, and having a magnetic external version saves them and the small delay while it gets a fix. Also I generally leave the GPS off till I need it, so the bell-mounted compass is helpful for general "directioning" and following rough headings.

Yes, thermometers of any sort -- and especially those digital ones on computers or watches -- can be subject to apparent or outright error depending on sun exposure. They measure the temperature where *they* are. One of my great joys over the last 25 or so years has been finding and exploiting microclimates when touring. For a long time, I took a little zipper-pull thermometer along to measure temperatures when I stopped for breaks, and I soon caught on to the huge variations in temperatures depending in exposure to wind and sun-load. Sitting on the sunny side of trees, sheltered from the wind, temperatures were often much warmer than just a meter or so to either side. I began to learn what made a "warm spot" and "cold spot" and exploited them to my ends. Stone walls, trees, corners formed by structures...all these things make a real difference for keeping warm or cool when off the bike; just a few meters' difference in location can make all the difference in the world. For an article on microclimates and camping, see: http://books.google.com/books?id=yOQDAAAAMBAJ&pg=PA29&lpg=PA29&dq=microclimates+for+camping&source=bl&ots=6Tire_7E_G&sig=Xnm_XCa1_jdZVMgQDBFum7Xfru0&hl=en&sa=X&ei=A5o1Uae-O8TfPb_ngJAH&ved=0CDoQ6AEwAzgK#v=onepage&q=microclimates%20for%20camping&f=false

Best,

Dan. (...who probably has too much Stuff, but it adds to the fun!)
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: Andre Jute on March 05, 2013, 12:14:02 PM
Your bike is getting too stealthy, Dan, and that beautifully applied handlebar tape is the last straw on the camel's back.

A pro thief will take one look, say to himself "I don't know this brand, but this guy knows his business. I'll just steal it on spec, see if I can part it out, maybe sell it whole if the brand looks good on the net."

Next thing you fit, whatever it is, should be a grungy dull color, out of place on such an elegant conception. You want the experienced thief to say, "Nah, this guy's a pretender, a wannabe. if I don't know the brand, it's an off brand. He probably got for six supermarket brand cola tops and $9.95. But he can't fool me. See, that el cheap part is where he lost the track." And he walks on by.

Not suggesting garish orange or anything stupid and over-obvious; it mustn't attract attention on and of its own. Even something grey or plasticky silver that doesn't quite succeed in looking like polished ali will do. Just something not quite so successfully stealthy that makes the owner look like an idiot to someone unfamiliar with the brand (and with Rohloff -- if he knows that one, this little trick will be wasted) trying to judge the value of the bike.

Andre
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: jags on March 05, 2013, 03:26:29 PM
Andre he would want to be a very brave man to steal dans bike ,you know the old saying never disturb a quiet man  ;D ;D
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: Andre Jute on March 05, 2013, 07:14:00 PM
Andre he would want to be a very brave man to steal dans bike ,you know the old saying never disturb a quiet man  ;D ;D

Why, then, he deserves to suffer a Darwinian accident.
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: Danneaux on March 05, 2013, 07:42:16 PM
Yikes, Andre; makes me think I shouldn't post a rare, left-side view ('most all the photos you see are taken from the drivetrain side). This one pre-dates taping of the 'bars and I have yet to install the lights and charging system.

All the best,

Dan. (...one of the Quiet Ones who, once started, doesn't stop)
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: StuntPilot on March 05, 2013, 07:58:05 PM
Dan - fantastic shot of the Nomad! This looks like the ultimate go anywhere machine! :)
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: Danneaux on March 05, 2013, 08:57:57 PM
Early this morning, I took a quick spin on the Nomad in heavy rain and thought I'd share a quick shot of the snow still on the mountains here'bouts. It is a little soft thanks to the moisture in the air, but gives some idea of winter's lingering grip.

Speaking of "grip", the new handlebar tape worked very nicely in the wet stuff, giving a firm handhold and absorbing lots of road-shock. Compression-wrapped over the Grab-On foam, it feels soft initially, but quickly firms up nicely over bumps without feeling squishy or imprecise. In comparison, the Tektro rubber brake hoods feel pretty hard, so I am continuing my search for pads to add there. I'll soon be spending 17-hours days in the saddle on rough ground, and my hands will thank my efforts put in that direction now. Despite some reported problems with adhesive "creep", I may give these a try: http://g-form.com/products/brake-hood-overgrip/

Occasionally, we've had snow here on March 5th, but so far this year, only rain. Today's my birthday -- No. 53 officially, but only 8 by Dan's Birthday Math, where your age is the two digits added together. You can never be more than 18, and have the opportunity to revisit past ages several times. It takes the sting out of aging and saves on candles for the cake.

Best,

Dan. (...whose 95 year-old father had his 14th birthday -- again -- last October)
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: Danneaux on March 05, 2013, 11:01:38 PM
Hi All!

I have just posted a video showing my Rohloff shifter mounted to the T-bar above my compact drop handlebars, and how easily I can "dial-in" as many as 7 gears at a turn by "spinning the dial" from the end, approaching as I would to turn a doorknob. This setup really has proven convenient for my use, and hopefully the video will show why I prefer this location.

My YouTube channel is TheSherpaRider. The video may be found at: http://youtu.be/lVh3qb4F0sQ

I always wear cycling gloves while riding, but left them off so you can better see my finger and hand positions while shifting. It isn't a very far reach from either the regular brake hoods or from the interrupter levers mounted beneath the tops of the handlebars. I find it even a bit more convenient in practice than bar-end shifters on a derailleur bike.

I'm usually more inline when at rest on the brake hoods, but had to accommodate the very tall/wide tripod holding the camera as I shot the video.

Best,

Dan.
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: jags on March 06, 2013, 12:04:47 AM
Good video dan very impressed at how quick that turns but will it go into gear as quick say going from 7 to 14 .lovely clear video as well cant wait to see a few more  ;)
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: Danneaux on March 06, 2013, 12:07:29 AM
Quote
...will it go into gear as quick say going from 7 to 14
Yep. Jags. when the knob stops -- wherever it stops -- you're already in gear. No pedaling another quarter-turn or so as with a der mech, waiting for the chain to go "clunk" into place. By the time the knob is turned, it has already shifted.

Best,

Dan.
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: il padrone on March 06, 2013, 03:27:10 AM
In comparison, the Tektro rubber brake hoods feel pretty hard, so I am continuing my search for pads to add there. I'll soon be spending 17-hours days in the saddle on rough ground, and my hands will thank my efforts put in that direction now. Despite some reported problems with adhesive "creep", I may give these a try: http://g-form.com/products/brake-hood-overgrip/

A different view on the use of brake hood padding - from the reviews given here (http://www.amazon.com/G-Form-Brake-Hood-Over-Grips/dp/B004DP9KDG/ref=cm_cr_pr_product_top)

Quote
the padding is very squishy and radically changes the braking characteristics. You have to push through the gel until you get firm enough purchase to apply sufficient braking pressure. This forces you to move your hands to the unpadded portion of the hoods, or move down to the drops, to get a firm braking foundation. Try that in an emergency braking situation. This is the reason why brake hoods aren't gel-padded, only thickly rubberized. You have to have a relatively unyielding gripping surface for effective braking control.
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: il padrone on March 06, 2013, 03:50:38 AM
Just looking at your video and it becomes apparent that your grip on the gear shift while cycling would be virtually as good as normal steering - you are not riding one-handed at all, as the extension mount is securely connected to the steerer.

Also I suddenly thought of the Nitto Lamp Holder shown here on Peter White's site (http://www.peterwhitecycles.com/light-mounts.asp) (half-way down the page):

(http://www.peterwhitecycles.com/images/products/Lights/nitto-light-bar.jpg)



It's not black, but it might allow you to simplify the steerer set-up, maybe reducing a bit of weight, keep the profile all a bit lower.
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: Danneaux on March 06, 2013, 05:06:35 AM
<nods> Yes, I've seen that review of the over-grips, Pete...thanks for flagging it, though. It is a decided downside, and I don't doubt the review. The trouble is, when it comes to brake hood padding, there really isn't much out there to choose from. I would much prefer G-form's dedicated hoods 'cos the squishy stuff is encapsulated in the molded hoods and is *much* more stable, plus there are no adhesive issues to deal with. The adhesive overgrips don't appear they'd be very long-lived under constant, heavy use from user reports I've seen (including one from JimG, a nice fellow and an old iBOB alumnus from my days there).

Though they looked kinda homegrown, Spenco once offered sleeves made of either their usual nylon-covered, nitrogen-filled blown neoprene foam (skin-diver's suit material, essentially) or gel-foam that was sewn into sleeves that slipped over the hoods. It was available in black, was stable, and lasted a long time. I may need to pay a visit to Eugene Skin Diver's Supply to pick up some neoprene sheeting. As I recall from my last go-'round with it, there's a variety of thicknesses to choose from. The trouble is I don't have a sewing machine with a free-arm small enough to fit inside the loop to make a butted joint that is held by overcast stitching. I'd have to do it by hand, and that's tough to do. I did see a NOS set of Spenco gel covers for sale the other day, but  never much liked the gel and they were blue.

Tektro's hoods are unusually dense and unyielding. I looked to see if Hudz made a cover like the old aftermarket A'Me hoods I fitted t my rando bike. Those are made of a sort of spongy-feeling rubbery urethane and are really comfortable. The Tektro hoods are interchangeable with the ones offered by Cane Creek, but the only difference I can see is the CC ones have little lizards embossed on them instead of being pebble-grained.

I'm tempted to slice and fit a section of dense Grab-On foam and fit it to the back of the hoods, but I'm not sure how to hold it secure. Sure, it could be taped in place, but that would look bad, and aesthetics count as much as comfort!  ;)

Oh! And the Nitto Lamp Holder...exquisitely finished and unassailable quality as with all Nitto products, this would be ideal with a quill stem, drop 'bars and a Rohloff. Though my current setup "stacks" a bit high, I really like it, and it leaves room for me to mount the HB bag down low and up close to the steerer to minimize any effect on handling, so I'll probably stay with what I have; it is just working so well for my needs. "Different", yes! but "just right" for my needs at present.

All the best,

Dan.
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: Andre Jute on March 06, 2013, 11:13:41 PM
The video also shows what isn't there: on those narrow drop bars, even if you could somehow manoeuvre the Rohloff shifter into place on the bar itself, it would cut into your handspace.
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: Danneaux on March 07, 2013, 12:27:22 AM
You're absolutely right, Andre, and...in Roadie World, those are considered moderate-to-wide handlebars by today's standards and ginormous by the standards of days past. These are a Maes bend, 44cm wide top and bottom, matching my shoulder width so I can "ride narrow", stay all arrowdynamicky, and still keep my Roadie Club membership. For comparison, the randonneur-bend handlebars on my favorite derailleur-equipped bike are only 37cm wide at the top (45cm at the bottom). *That* is narrow, but just the same as generations of Tour de France riders rode to victory back in the day.

Grant over at Riv has an interesting thesis with some merit, I think. He postulates that roadie 'bars usta be narrower because Q-factor/tread/track/distance between one's feet used to be narrower as well. He figures as Q-factor increases at the crank, handlebars also need to grow wider else the bike won't be laterally balanced and it will be harder to steer, especially when "honking" (throwing the bike from side to side, rider off the saddle, standing to pedal).

You're absolutely right -- getting that Rohloff shifter up off the handlebar really freed up space on the 'bars...what little there is compared to MTB straight or comfort 'bars. It may look odd, but it sure works well for my needs and allows for Speed Dialing when selecting gears.

All the best,

Dan. (...whose out-of-box thinking is also off-the-'bar)
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: Danneaux on March 07, 2013, 08:00:29 PM
Hi All!

With a few moments to hand, I turned myself to the task of attaching my rear BuddyFlap. I'd like it to protect the ExtraWheel trailer hitch bearings from corrosive desert playa kicked up by the rear wheel, and I wanted it easily detachable if desired. I also wanted to avoid having wet-gloppy playa cake up between it and the tire if I run into rain (if mounted inside the mudguard, the flap makes a small mud-holding shelf, not a problem at the front where I have opened the 'guard for wider clearance at the lower stay).

Fastening the BuddyFlap to the outside solved all my problems. By happy accident, the flap holes were factory-stamped at the same spacing as the screw and peg that hold the reflector on the SKS P55 'guard. The flap compresses just enough so the reflector peg still engages the 'guard and the lot is held stable and secure with plenty of threads left on the screw. In effect, the flap material gaskets the reflector and the fender/'guard contours shape the upper portion of the flap so it hangs properly with the perfect combination of stiffness/flexibility. 'Couldn't have been easier! Placing the mount so close to the stay bracket reduces the chance of flap torque twisting the unsupported portion of the mudguard, and of course the 'guard holes are already present, so no new ones had to be drilled.

Best,

Dan. (...who is 'guardedly optimistic and no longer in a flap over mud and wet, corrosive playa)
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: julk on March 08, 2013, 12:18:39 AM
Dan,
You have just beat me to it.
Santa brought me some BuddyFlaps and I have been thinking about fitting them now Spring is on the way
I hope mine go on as easy, they will be replacing Brooks leather mudflaps.
Julian.
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: Danneaux on March 08, 2013, 01:24:49 AM
Quote
You have just beat me to it. Santa brought me some BuddyFlaps...
Oh, how nice; Santa heard your wishes! I think you'll be pleased with these, Julian. Among several virtures, BuddyFlaps have an exceptionally shiny and smooth surface that makes cleaning easy. In fact, most debris doesn't seem to stick as easily to begin with. Then, being of fairly thick vinyl, there is just enough mass for them to hang nicely and not curl up in the breeze. I decided to mount mine with the subtle embossed logo facing the tire so the outside would remain smooth in appearance. I've managed to "sell" three sets of these flaps locally to people who have seen them in the last couple weeks and wanted to know what they were. They are several steps ahead of most homemade mudflaps.

Those Brooks flaps are lovely-looking things when new, but can get a bit tattered here'bouts, thanks to the constant exposure to winter moisture and stuff kicked up from the road.

Best wishes for a smooth, easy installation! If you develop any questions, give a shout.

Dan.
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: Danneaux on March 09, 2013, 10:09:10 PM
Hi All!

What I should be doing (sprucing up the garden) on a beautiful, warm Spring day versus what I am doing... (running the wires for the Nomad's lighting system).

Easy choice.

Don't tell anyone.

Best,

Dan. (...who says, "Shh! Mum's the word!")
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: Danneaux on March 11, 2013, 04:55:17 AM
Hi All!

What a difference a day makes, weather-wise!

Today was overcast with some sprinkles and much cooler than when I worked on the Nomad's headlight wiring in the backyard yesterday. The new rear mudflap got a workout.

Still, it was a terrific day for a bike ride on the Nomad, and I went well up the Valley, then back via Weatherford Road, stopping at a little bridge over Muddy Creek so I could enjoy the wildlife. I saw and heard a bald eagle overhead, saw some white egrets and a great blue heron, then heard a splash at my feet and saw a good-sized nutria swimming in the water. Nutria are large rodents, an invasive species introduced to Oregon in the 1930s in an attempt to establish a nutria-based fur industry. They are remarkably pleasant creatures unless cornered, but people really shouldn't feed them (or feed bread to geese, which causes wing-feather damage and eventual loss of flight capability), as shown here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VdMHMwLCjsE Nutria are considered an invasive species and do considerable damage to the environment. See: http://www.dfw.state.or.us/wildlife/living_with/nutria.asp ...and... http://www.oregonencyclopedia.org/entry/view/nutria/

On the way back, I stopped by a private collector's attempt to recreate a vintage gas (petrol) and service station from the 1930s. He has worked on his collection over most of the last 20 years, and now it is complete enough to serve as a backdrop for my Nomad!
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: Danneaux on March 13, 2013, 11:45:00 PM
Hi All!

This afternoon turned out to be warm (60F/15.5C) and pleasantly sunny despite the forecasts, so I took the Nomad outside to make some progress on the rest of the light wiring. I removed the rear wheel and routed the taillight wire as I did on Sherpa, inside the left-side lip of the rear mudguard, through two Futaba R/C rubber grommets, and then employed a couple Dean's R/C #1225 gold-plated micro-connectors at each end so I can remove the rear 'guard or change to a different taillight in future with little fuss while leaving the rest of the wiring intact. I used a gel-type beta-cyanoacrylate and wooden clothespins to keep about 5cm of wire at a time under compression against the 'guard till the glue cured.

Unfortunately, I ran short of wire for the middle section and will need to buy more from Peter White. The Nomad's suspension-corrected frame design means there's a fair amount of space between front tire and downtube, and I want to span the gap by coiling the wire there to serve as a strain relief. Coiling takes up a fair amount of wire, leaving me just short for now.

While I had the Nomad on its side and the wheel out, I decided it was a good time to disassemble and thoroughly lube the EX (external) Rohloff shift-box, something I have pondered for some time. Given some past problems among Forum members with seized cover screws and cable problems, it seemed a good idea. I've had the bike about 6 months and didn't want to push my luck and encourage galling by leaving it alone past this point. I also wanted to make sure the unit was grease-sealed against the talc-like playa I will encounter in the desert.

I removed the two Torx screws that hold the cover plate and coated their threads with anti-seize. I then popped the cover and removed it and the pulley for the shift cable. Of course, the pulley is under some torsion, 'cos the cable wraps 'round it, but if you use care to keep tension on it, it may be removed laterally from the box with cables still in their raceways and the adjusters slide out as well with no change in tension.

While it was apart, I grabbed one of my cameras for some quick pics. The photos aren't not as crisp as usual 'cos I had one hand holding the spool under tension and the other hand had some greasy fingers I didn't want to transfer to the camera.

My shift box was innocent of any lubricant, and the red arrow shows where the EX housing contacted the edge of the pulley, causing some friction when shifting and showing some contact with the pulley. I greased that face, then pumped the lot full of my preferred Phil Wood waterproof grease and bolted it back together, torquing the cover-plate screws to spec. Shifting feels much more fluid and shifting effort is slightly reduced. Though it is often overlooked, Rohloff do specifically recommend lubing the EX shift-box, as Andre has mentioned on several occasions:
http://www.thorncycles.co.uk/forums/index.php?topic=3325.0
http://www.thorncycles.co.uk/forums/index.php?topic=5049.msg26349#msg26349
http://coolmainpress.com/BICYCLINGRohloffEXTservice.html

There is a difference between what Andre and Rohloff have in mind and what I did today.

The Rohloff manual (here: http://www.rohloff.de/uploads/media/Service_en.pdf pg. 3, photo 5) indicates, "To lubricate the cable pulley bearing, remove the cable box and place a little grease on the parts arrowed in the picture above". I considered this carefully, and on looking at the side of the pulley, there were signs of friction. Since grease could migrate into the box from the open face of the click-box, I decided to fill the box with grease and monitor it over time. If the worst should happen and it gums up, it won't be a huge thing to dunk it in the solvent tank, replace the cable, and be back where I was. Yes, I also realize it would make cable replacement messier, but still possible.

My touring conditions are a bit different from others', and the talc-fine corrosive alkali dust I go through can filter into everything. I am hoping the Phil Waterproof grease will form a barrier; it is the only grease that proved to hold up in my use against Mt. St Helens' corrosive volcanic ashfall when I rode through it in 1980. Phil grease has worked well for me in a number of sealed assemblies over the years and even when pumped into freewheels and cassettes for use in sub-zero F temps, and I am hoping it will also work well here. This is an Experiment -- for Science -- and will provide an opportunity to see how it works over time. I have several months before I my next big tour, and will have ample opportunity to discover any problems before I leave.

Some tips, if you give this a try:

First shift into Gear 1 or 14 to prevent indexing problems on reassembly.
Once the cover is removed, keep the cable winding spool under tension and remove it directly toward the open side. The adjustment barrels will slide out laterally as well. With care, no tension adjustment will be necessary on reassembly.
With the box open and empty, clean out any debris and then manually lubricate the lip shown by the red arrow.
While keeping tension on the winding spool, slide the lot directly sideways into the box. If the cable comes out of the raceway or crosses another, the cable will effectively be too short to allow the adjusters to seat on their 'box mounts. This is something you should check, as a crossed cable will make for rough shifting, poor adjustment, and short cable life.
Once the contents are back in the box, pump in sufficient grease to level and a bit more. You want the excess to squish out when the cover is replaced, ensuring a full fill and grease seal from the inside-out. Wipe off any excess.
Retorque the Torx fittings to spec, refit to the hub, and call it done.

A quick and easy job, it took me all of ten minutes including the photos. I'll report back later as to how it all works out.

Best,

Dan.
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: Andre Jute on March 14, 2013, 04:18:16 AM
Nice writeup, Dan. with the assembled clickbox off (one thumbscrew) I put grease in whatever space there is to both the clickbox and the on-bike bit it mates with, also onto the threaded pins that position the EXT box, because we don't want those to corrode either, then fitted the click box back and wiped the excess grease squeezed out. I'm not planning on taking my click box apart until the cable gives out. If that causes problems, too bad. I have no intention of fitting or refitting cables to the spools until I have to, and prefer not to take the change of losing tension by unbolting the thing just to take a look.

Andre Jute.
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: Danneaux on March 17, 2013, 06:14:34 PM
Hi All!

As most of you know, I like to keep a fairly clean bike, figuring it aids longevity. After a ride, I rev up the compressor and do a quick blowoff of any accumulated dust, then use a soft, freshly-laundered microfiber cloth dampened with alcohol- and ammonia-free window cleaner for a quick wipe-down. if the bike is rain-soaked, I gently bounce it on its tires to shake off the excess water, then dry it with an absorbent cloth. The post-ride cleaning takes all of five minutes if I get to it promptly.

As for the chain, I usually lube it the night before a longish ride so the lube can fully penetrate before use. Next morning, I use a paper towel on it to lightly wipe off any excess that remains so it won't sling off the chain.

I've been doing a lot of gravel-road riding recently -- both in the dry and in the wet -- and followed this routine again after the last ride and took and attached some photos of the result below. This is the original SRAM PC830 chain, relubed with Purple Extreme atop the original factory lube. It still runs clean and quietly and doesn't attract dust. The PE does tend to make the remaining original lube a bit "soupy" in the first 15 minutes or so after application, but this is nicely addressed with a quick wipedown before letting it sit overnight. No problems, drips, or slinging after.

Though I wish I had a Chainglider, the chain is staying pretty clean for now with this routine, just as it did on Sherpa. I think the Purple Extreme helps, but the real key is also the long Buddy Flap on the front mudguard. It keeps my feet much cleaner and drier and keeps the chain out of the front wheel's "spray zone" so it doesn't get as dirty. For my use, a long front flap is as important as a mudguard. The extended front 'guard (a repurposed rear 'guard) helps tremendously as well. The spray has lost much of its initial velocity and is directed downward by the time it exits the front. With the original short 'guard, I often rode into my own spray as it was thrown almost directly forward. The old French constructeurs knew this, and supplied their all-weather randonneur and touring bikes with front mudguards that extended similarly far forward.

Chain lubrication has been well-covered already in these threads:
http://www.thorncycles.co.uk/forums/index.php?topic=2145.0
http://www.thorncycles.co.uk/forums/index.php?topic=1210.0
http://www.thorncycles.co.uk/forums/index.php?topic=711.0
...and we've seen photos of Il Padrone's Purple Extreme chain still doing well covered in red dust. I don't want to start yet another chain-lube thread in this topic, but thought I'd post this here 'cos it is a nice follow-on to my recent photos of wet/dry gravel-road riding and to some PMs and emails asking me if my chain stayed as clean as the rest of the bike. I've found the real answer to keeping the bike clean is mudguards with long flaps, a long front 'guard, and periodic removal of dust/dirt before it can "crust" and build layer upon layer.

Best,

Dan.
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: Danneaux on March 17, 2013, 09:47:36 PM
Hi All!

Quick ride this morning, along the Willamette river and up the Valley. Weather was doing a bit if "everything" today, and I kept it short as I ran into heavy sleet and hail up North and didn't have rain gear with me. Still pretty; at times gorgeous. Well worth getting out.

Deliberate into-the-sun shot to silhouette the bike.

Best,

Dan.
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: ianshearin on March 17, 2013, 10:23:48 PM
Thats a great looking bike Dan  :)
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: jags on March 17, 2013, 11:59:10 PM
A lot going on with that Nomad but saying that it looks perfect very neat compact.
great looking bike. 8)
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: il padrone on March 18, 2013, 12:22:57 AM
Yes, all looking very schmick Dan. That front mudguard has got me thinking..... although I never have any real bother from forward-flung spray. How did you get the second rear guard to do this? Did you have to buy a second set? Would be expensive.

And where ever did you get three Blackburn Bomber big bottle cages?? They are no longer made I thought  ???
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: Danneaux on March 18, 2013, 02:07:55 AM
Quote
How did you get the second rear guard to do this?
Pete, I had a second rear 'guard on-hand, though local bike shops often have spares left over when people come in with a broken one needing replacement. The customer gets the fresh pair they paid for, and the old but still usable one often goes in the recycle bin for lack of a better purpose. I'm that "better purpose". :D They are sometimes free for the asking, which creates value, so I have paid as much as USD$5 for "scrap" that had been thrown away (dumpsters and their contents are considered/on private property, so there is risk of a theft charge if I were to dive for them without permission). The bicycle racks mounted on city buses here help my cause. They use a spring-loaded arm that clamps the front wheel with a very strong spring...that breaks front 'guards if the patron gets it wrong when hurrying to board the bus. Bingo! Time for a new mudguard set.

To make it work, I emoved 110mm from the rear edge in the same profile ('guard ends at the same height as the brake pads), then re-riveted the lower stay bridge, using one rivet to catch the front Buddy Flap. I then used a hole punch to make plugs from the piece I cut off and used them to fill the original bridge-clip holes in the new front 'guard so water wouldn't spray through; I did the same on the rear 'guard. Beta-cyanoacrylate gel holds them in place, though the plugs are a hard friction fit. A salvaged stay bridge is riveted to the front of the extended 'guard, and a spare set of cut-down PlanetBike stays attach to the forward corners of the Thorn Low-Loader MkV pannier racks (same angle as the rack braces) to secure the extension. I covered the stays with heat-shrink tubing so they match the frame's matte black.

I did something very similar on another bike years ago (pic below to show the extended 'guard that inspired the Nomad one), and was astounded at the difference it made for my use. A conventional "short" front guard typically ends at a line not too far from vertical when drawn through the front axle. When riding in heavy rain, water exits forward at a pretty good velocity and I found myself riding directly into it, getting splatter on my thighs, knees, the upper part of the fork, the lower headset and the brakes; it all drained down from there. Once I extended the mudguard, I found it made a world of difference. By the time the spray exits at a lower height, it has lost some of its speed and is directed downward. My lowrider-mounted panniers stay much cleaner, too. The extended front 'guard really needs a nice, long mudflap to fulfill its purpose. I use the Buddy Flap for that: http://www.buddyflaps.com/ On the Nomad, I balance the length between coverage and the need to clear sagebrush and such in the desert, so they end a bit higher than standard rando practice.

Utopia (Andre has a lovely Kranich made by them) do something similar but with less coverage: http://www.utopia-velo.de/relaunch/index.a4d# Most Honjo fenders extend forward a long way for the same reason and sometimes employ extra stays: http://tinyurl.com/chxzqr3 Classic French constructeurs Rene Herse and Alex Singer did this, as do Toei, Cherubim, and Royal Enfield in their reproductions. The appearance is strange and unsettling to contemporary eyes, but function is far superior for keeping bike and rider clean and dry in the really wet conditions I often find in Oregon's rainy months. The long rear Buddy Flap is standard practice for randonneurs in a draft and is considered a polite necessity when riding in the rain with a group. A former classmate of mine from uni wrote this about them: http://www.cyclingportland.com/2010/12/13/buddy-flaps/
Quote
...where ever did you get three Blackburn Bomber big bottle cages?? They are no longer made I thought
It wasn't easy! I did search a number of old shops. Mostly, I purchased them when they were shortly out of production and so less expensive and put them away against future use. They do still show up on eBay from time to time, even as NOS: http://www.ebay.com/itm/BIG-Blackburn-Bomber-B-52-Water-Bottle-Cage-1-5L-51-Oz-New-Unused-NOS-/221191871926?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3380101db6 A not-too-used one here: http://www.ebay.com/itm/BLACKBURN-COPPER-CANYON-CYCLING-Extra-Long-Large-Water-Bottle-Cage-Alloy-2L-/130862869009?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1e7808ea11 They aren't cheap anymore, though. The Nomad ones transferred over from Sherpa. I have another, which is used on the tandem in warm weather.

The Bombers are built around a very strong hollow extrusion; I have not found a 1.5l bottle holder as sturdy since. They also have a number of mounting holes so their position can be adjusted (as when mounting beneath the downtube). Their limitation is in fitting bottles of the old Evian standard. In recent years, many bottlers have gone to proprietary designs, so it is sometimes a bit hard to find bottles to fit exactly, though nearly all are secure. When a mismatch occurs, I transfer the contents to my bottle and ride on.

If you'd like, Pete, I can keep my eyes open for some for you.

Best,

Dan.
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: il padrone on March 18, 2013, 04:06:21 AM
Discussion of guards and mudflaps suddenly got me thinking - an easier solution: a front-end mudflap?? I went looking out at a plastic container to cut up for this, then looked at my front mudguard end and saw this :

(http://www.rashminursinghome.com/Albums/Surly/Image00006.jpg)

Not my bike, but my mudguard has the same plastic bumper at the front. I've often wondered why it is there and whether I should remove it, but now I realise it provides a lip at the front inside the guard. This probably explains why I don't seem to find the spray a problem - it gets disturbed and slowed into drips rather than a flying stream.  ;D


As for the Blackburn Bomber, thanks for the offer Dan. I have one myself and only really use it on summer tours or the rare desert expedition. I would like one or two more to go on my wife's and son's bikes, but I'll keep my eyes open on ebay. Thanks for the links.
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: NZPeterG on March 18, 2013, 06:33:15 AM
Hi Dan,
Thanks I have been watching the NOS Blackburn Bomber on Ebay for a week after you write about them on a differed  post.
But after you posted a link to it! well I had to hit Buy How  :o

I hope that the bottles I can get in NZ will fit  :P

Pete
 ;)

Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: Danneaux on March 18, 2013, 07:05:59 AM
Quote
I had to hit Buy It Now
Yay, Pete!

Good on you; glad you got it. Hopefully bottles will fit, as the Bomber cage does best accept the bottles that hew to the original and most popular Evian design.  I have found bottles a little smaller in diameter or a little shorter still work fine and fit securely without rattling. The neck hoop does a good job holding the bottle, and the rubber strap stretches over and has a lip to lock beneath the bottle's screw-on cap. The rubber on mine shows no sign if deteriorating even after a lot of desert sun exposure.

A final tip: Most 1.5l bottles don't include a pop-top ("sport") nozzle. No problem; most of the caps from the same brand's smaller offerings will fit the threads of the larger bottles, so you just buy a small bottle and swap the cap if you prefer convenience over a screw cap. Even better: A Blackburn version is included in your NOS Bomber package. Double-yay!

Best,

Dan.
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: NZPeterG on March 18, 2013, 07:19:33 AM
Thanks Dan
 :-*

Pete
 :D

Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: il padrone on March 18, 2013, 09:53:45 AM
If you get Mt Franklin Spring Water in NZ, their 1.5L bottle fits in the cage very nicely.
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: NZPeterG on March 18, 2013, 11:08:20 AM
Hi All
We have NZ waters, H2O, Pump, etc.

Pete

Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: Matt2matt2002 on March 19, 2013, 10:30:56 AM
Hi All!

As most of you know, I like to keep a fairly clean bike, figuring it aids longevity. After a ride, I rev up the compressor and do a quick blowoff of any accumulated dust, then use a soft, freshly-laundered microfiber cloth dampened with alcohol- and ammonia-free window cleaner for a quick wipe-down. if the bike is rain-soaked, I gently bounce it on its tires to shake off the excess water, then dry it with an absorbent cloth. The post-ride cleaning takes all of five minutes if I get to it promptly.

Dan.

Very impressed with your clean up routine at the end of a ride. Puts me to shame. So yesterday after a wet ride I spent 5 mins or more for a wipe down.
Did everything apart from wheels and between spokes since I ran out of time. ( ok, I know I should have made time but Mrs. matt wanted me inside for my tea ).
Do you do your wheels? If so, is there a quick way?
It was a shame to leave the Old Bird with dirty paws!

Matt
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: Danneaux on March 19, 2013, 05:17:24 PM
Quote
Do you do your wheels? If so, is there a quick way?
Hi Matt! I do indeed "do" the wheels, though less thoroughly than the rest of the bike.

If the bike is dry and dusty, the squirt of compressed air takes care of pretty much everything. If it is wet and dirty, it takes just a bit extra to clean the wheels...

If I do nothing else, I still make a quick wipe of the rim sidewalls to remove grit before it can embed in the brake pads and score the rims. A quick 2-3cm "bounce" on the pavement shakes most of the water from the underside of the mudguards and off the wheels and tires. Compressed air blows away the rest (being careful to stay away from bearing seals and such).

For the tires, it helps if you're running road slicks or a shallow tread so not a lot of mud can stick and accumulate. I use a *wet* cloth, and just spin the tire beneath it or wipe quickly in sections and then rotate. If the tires are muddy, it removes all excess and they dry quickly (a necessity, since the Nomad lives indoors).

Rims are easy as well. Another wet cloth is held against each sidewall as the wheel is spun, or alternatively simply wiped in sections as the bike sits on its wheels.

This leaves a dirty "track" down the center of the rim I generally don't worry much about. When I do clean that, I use a cloth wetted with 99% isopropyl alcohol and do a quick wipe between and then perhaps up each spoke to the first crossing. Spokes are generally left alone, since they are stainless and have minimal surface area (and are a pain to do  :D ). Hub centers are also a pain, so don't get done much (why I decided against polished hubs on the Nomad; been there, done that with my Phil Wood hubs. Polish once, and you polish forever. If you don't, you'll wish you had).

The Rohloff-equipped Nomad's single chainring, cog, and large hub body are ever so much easier to clean post-ride than my derailleur bikes. For those, I generally keep some old rags on hand and will add a quick floss of the cassette/freewheel cogs and wipe the sides of the rear mech's tension and jockey pulleys if they need it. Again, the key for me to keeping this quick and easy is the full-coverage mudguards and long mudflaps, which keep much of the road debris confined to the wheels.

The whole idea of the "quick post-ride cleanup" is to keep it quick and simple so I'll actually do it. The side benefit is the stuff doesn't harden into a crust. Of all the things I ride through, angle-worms are the worst for removal once dry. I'm pretty sure they're made of the same stuff as the old rubber bands that vulcanize themselves to my paper files.

Best,

Dan.
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: jags on March 19, 2013, 06:01:05 PM
i must be a bit of a weirdo but i love cleaning my bike  ;D
many a time i took cotton buds to the chain links until every bit of grime was history.
another thing to remember to check is brake blocks ,be careful nothing is embedded in the rubber to distroy a good rim  :o yeah i reckon a super clean bike is a bike thats not going to give you any hassle.
mind you i dont mind getting it all mucked up all part of the fun.
 yeah keep it clean.
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: il padrone on March 19, 2013, 10:23:29 PM
I must be a weirdo but I love the riding bit  :D Cleaning is a transient thing - that is it occurs on a transient basis and takes up less of my time. Maybe about 20 mins per month rather than 5 mins per ride (100 mins per month).

I don't find this gives me noticeable wear or corrosion issues. The bike gets cleaned when it gets dirty. The Thorn Nomad is exceptionally good for crud protection and removal. Mudguards and flaps are an essential to reduce crud build-up, but also a few other things matter - Andra 30CSS rims stay very-much grit free (most of that braking grit is your pads wearing bits of your rims off), Purple Extreme lube keeps my chain very nice, the Rohloff has far fewer nooks and crannies to catch and collect dirt and chain gunge, SS spokes and cables are much more corrosion resistant and durable.

Don't you have CSS rims Danneaux? I find there is simply no grit or dust on my rims at all.

Sometimes letting the dirt dry to flake it off is an easier way to clean. We didn't have much water handy to clean this mud and much of it chipped off OK when dried.

(https://fbcdn-sphotos-f-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/s720x720/561359_10150654517426107_1186151436_n.jpg)
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: jags on March 19, 2013, 11:15:48 PM
so would you leave your bike that dirty when you get back from a tour or day ride and just clean it at the end of  the month  ;D ;D think of all that s..t getting into the drive train man it would ruin any bike and all for the sake of 20 minutes and a bucket of soapy water. ;)
horses for courses i suppose . you seem to enjoy getting down and dirty , where as i don't.
btw i'm not having a go at you just saying the bike deserves to be kept clean .
yeah i'm am a weirdo. ::)
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: Danneaux on March 19, 2013, 11:51:39 PM
Quote
Don't you have CSS rims Danneaux?
Hi Pete! Nope; I made a deliberate decision against CSS rims, after friends reported they braked less well in extremely wet conditions. Also discussed a bit here: http://www.thorncycles.co.uk/forums/index.php?topic=4409.0 ...and... http://www.thorncycles.co.uk/forums/index.php?topic=2680.0 It sure doesn't seem to be a Universal, but occurred often enough to give me pause. Since I often ride in the wet especially while on-tour, braking in those conditions is really important to me, so standard Andras it is; just a preference of mine this go-'round. Coated or uncoated, the Andras have pretty robust sidewalls, so I'm not immediately worried. I get good rim life from my uncoated rims in such use, thanks to Kool-Stop Salmon pads, which have proven very gentle on my rims over the last 35 years or so. Re-rimming is not a big deal if the uncoated rims prove to have a short life.
Quote
Sometimes letting the dirt dry to flake it off is an easier way to clean.
Agreed! While on-tour, I will often allow dirt to crust-up and then let it chip off on its own or with some help if it is on something other than the drivetrain. The exception is wet playa. That stuff spreads, then hardens into a concrete-like substance that just does not come off, even on a braking surface. <-- I figure once it gets on the rim sidewalls, it is best to leave it the rest of the trip, as seems to bond to the surface and even the pads don't cut through it. It takes a real effort to remove it once home.
Quote
I find there is simply no grit or dust on my rims at all.
I've no doubt, Pete; that's one of many upsides for the CSS coating. No, my sidewall grit is mostly fine sand and road debris that can briefly adhere after splashing through silty puddles and such. Understandably, with uncoated rims, I don't want to have that grit grind into the sidewalls under braking, so I do clean it off occasionally.

The bulk of my post-ride cleaning described earlier is for day rides from home. I will do some spot-cleaning of the rims, chain, and drivetrain and such while on extended tours, but generally tend to leave things alone till I return. Occasionally, I have stopped at car repair shops and used their solvent tanks to clean my freewheel cogs and chainrings when things were really bad on long tours with my derailleur bikes, but that's pretty rare.
Quote
Cleaning is a transient thing - that is it occurs on a transient basis and takes up less of my time.
Sure, I understand, Pete. Just a different perspective. My Dutch touring buddy does similar, and we are each happy with the results. Vive la diffrence!  ;D

Oh! One last thought on keeping things clean(er) in use: In the past, I've experimented with everything from Flourine spray to spray-on cooking oil (Pam, not worth the effort and it attracts dust even after being wiped-down), furniture polish (Pledge), and various polymer coatings applied before long, dirty tours. Most did a nice job allowing the easy release of crusted dirt. Pledge did particularly well. However, these were all on glossy-finished wet painted bikes, and unfortunately are not compatible with matte-finished powdercoat, as they would change the appearance. The Pledge did work superbly when sprayed on the underside of the mudguards, excess wiped off and allowed to dry. I applied it with the wheels out and the brake pads bagged. It didn't seem to migrate onto the pads or rims, but sure did a nice job of preventing wheel-stopping buildup under the 'guards.

Best,

Dan.
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: il padrone on March 20, 2013, 12:54:45 AM
so would you leave your bike that dirty when you get back from a tour or day ride and just clean it at the end of  the month  ;D ;D

The dirt was chipped off the next morning, then we rode for a day to a campsite at Rawnsley Park Resort, where the next day it was thoroughly cleaned down and re-lubed.

Another close-up of the next day before chip-cleaning. Thick, huh ?  ;D

(https://fbcdn-sphotos-e-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/500_10151431952326107_2145702711_n.jpg)



think of all that s..t getting into the drive train man it would ruin any bike and all for the sake of 20 minutes and a bucket of soapy water. ;)

Surprisingly the drivetrain always manages to stay the cleanest of all the bike in such mud-events - look at it in the photo above. It may be the benefits of my Purple Extreme lube (doesn't wash off, does not attract dirt, rust-preventive) or also the flushing effects of some rain and continued chain use ??

Certainly at home with my normal commute and day rides on the weekend I normally don't get anything like this sort of dirt on the bike. Dust and/or a bit of light rain spatter is not going to destroy the bike - to paraphrase what the Dutch say "it's not made of sugar".
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: Danneaux on April 12, 2013, 04:49:39 AM
Hi All!

Ah! Contrast, sweet contrast!

I've been riding the Nomad almost exclusively since it arrived, but today decided to try a relatively short-distance back-to-back comparison between the Nomad and my most-favored Other ride, my beloved derailleur-geared blue 1983/84 Centurion ProTour 15 rando/touring bike with nearly 32,000 miles of use. In feel, geometry, and materials (Tange Champion No. 2 .9/.6/.9 in standard road-bike diameters), it would be roughly akin to a Thorn Club Tour with light wheels/tires and includes the usual assortment of dyno lights, mudguards, bottles/cages, and F/R alu pannier racks. Its wheels use Phil Wood freewheel hubs, 1.8mm spokes, narrow Mavic MA-2 box-section rims, and 700x32C Bontrager SelectK road slicks aired up to 85psi/~5.9bar. Weight is 32lb/14.5kg.

Although it was an apples-to-oranges comparison, I gained some interesting insights from riding each unladen, moving back and forth between them.

The Nomad was first out of the gate, with its Rigida Andra-shod 26x2.0 Duremes set F/R to 29/32psi or 2/2.2bar. Unladen dry weight is 45lb/20kg.

Riding along on the Nomad using these tires at these pressures, it is a revelation how well they damp low-amplitude high-frequency vibrations. I can spread my fingers like bird feathers while riding the brake hoods, and they are steady as can be. Concrete expansion joints, rough chip-sealed road surfaces, minor frost heaves and tree roots just disappear below these tires at low pressures despite the Nomad's very stiff frame.

In contrast, the rando bike accelerates much faster. For one thing, it weighs a lot less; 12lb/~5.5kg is some difference, and the rims/tubes/tires are lighter even though larger in diameter. There is a greater sensation of speed, though the bike computer showed actual speed was comparable in steady-state riding. Much of this impression of speed is due to the rando bike's greater ambient level of vibration, which is just constant. Spreading my fingers apart while riding atop the brake hoods, my fingers vibrate till they are a blur at the ends. Those same concrete expansion joints I breezed through on the Nomad hammered directly up the seatpost and into me, feeling like short sharp impacts from a shot-filled hammer. I ran over an ant and will feel it for a week. ;) All this from my previously most-comfortable bike!

The rando bike is a friction-shifted half-step "15-speed" (24/45/50T chainset, 14/17/21/26/34T freewheel) yielding 13 chainline-usable combinations, though I rarely if ever use the two highest gears (96in, 87in), so call it 11 available gears. In comparison, the Nomad's 36x17T Rohloff has 14 available combinations with no chainline issues so all combos are usable. The Rohloff's 80in high gear is about equal to the highest (79in) I ever truly use on the blue bike. All the intermediate gears are the same within a gear-inch or so, and the Rohloff adds two additional low gears (15in, 17in) below the blue bike's 19in low and includes a 20in as well. In practice, I find the shifting comparable with the Nomad getting the edge for having just one shifter (no double-shifts), for being truly in gear as soon as I hear the click, and for being able to change gears while stopped. I pause while shifting with both bikes and rarely shift under load (old friction-shifting derailleur habits die hard). The T-bar mounted Rohloff shifter is a little more convenient (closer) than my high-mounted downtube derailleur shifters.

The real difference I noticed between the two bikes relates to how they handle the big bumps...and how *I* handle them as a result. Now that I've been running the Nomad's tires at appropriately low pressures, the ride is largely comfortable but really firms up when I hit larger bumps and sometimes has the effect of snapping my neck a bit. I have been trying to figure out why, and got my answer today: The blue bike vibrates all the time, and so I know enough to "post" (stand up on the pedals when something Bigger comes along). Because the wider, higher-profile, low-pressure tires on the Nomad handle the little bumps so well, I get lulled into complacency and forget to post when a big bump -- something larger than a soft tire can absorb -- comes along. For comparison, I found an abrupt up-down-up crossing ramp on a multi-use path and repeatedly tried it with both bikes at the same speed. It snapped my neck a bit when riding the Nomad...and nearly took out my teeth on the stem of the blue bike while seated. Taking the same abrupt up-down-up ramps while standing on each bike was no problem.

Thanks to today's back-to-back comparison, I can better judge what constitutes a "seated bump" versus a "standing bump" on the Nomad; I hadn't realized I was posting so frequently on the blue rando bike. The Nomad's wide, low-pressure tires do such a great job with the smaller bumps, I forget that once they compress on hitting big bumps, the effective spring rate rises to where one *can* abruptly feel them. Understandable 'cos they are big bumps and would be on any bike! And, too, appropriately low tire pressures are more important with the unladen Nomad. It has a heavy, stiff frame appropriate to its role as a loaded expeditionary tourer. When riding unladen, the tires provide a suspension element critical to comfort, as intended. It really works out very nicely. I can feel the Sherpa Mk2's DNA in the Nomad Mk2, but just as the Sherpa was a heavier-duty touring bike than my blue rando/touring bike, so is the Nomad "more" bike than the Sherpa, biasing it more firmly toward the heavy-touring end of things and further from the role of general all-'rounder. For a visual comparison of ride/cargo characteristics, see the little chart I posted here: http://thorncyclesforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=4713.msg23329#msg23329

I feel really fortunate to have both ends of the touring spectrum covered so nicely in just two bikes (though I have others, I ride these most). I hope today's comparison will be helpful to those riders considering a move from conventional 700C tourer to fat-tired 26"-wheeled Nomad Mk2.

Best,

Dan.
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: Danneaux on May 05, 2013, 04:51:13 AM
Hi All!

The press of LifeStuff (and riding) has kept me from finishing the Nomad's wiring as quickly as planned. While I still have the charging system to wire, I finished the head- and taillight wiring today and waited for the flat light of evening to get some non-glare photos of the process.

I prefer my wiring largely hidden from view, secure from damage, and easily disconnected when general bike service is required (i.e. headset bearing replacement or component/lighting upgrades).  I managed this on Sherpa, as shown in gallery photos here...
http://thorncyclesforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=3896.msg17095#msg17095
http://thorncyclesforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=3896.msg17096#msg17096
http://thorncyclesforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=3896.msg17113#msg17113
...but the Nomad presented some extra challenges thanks to the extra clearance between downtube and front mudguard (to accommodate wheel travel with a suspension fork). I achieved my goals and am pleased with the nice, clean look -- it is really hard to see the wiring even close-up in bright daylight. Nothing dangles, loops, or hangs where it could be snagged when riding off-road or cross-country.

The attached photo collages tell the story by the numbers, but I'll explain it here in text:
1) The wiring starts at the SON28 (New) dynohub with a 4.8mm piggyback lug connector (to accommodate the separate lead to the Tout Terrain The Plug2 with PAT ExtraPower cord) attached to a short pigtail ending in a polarized gold-plated Dean's micro-connector (Model 2NB, P/N 1002/1225 http://www.wsdeans.com/products/plugs/micro_plug.html ), commonly used in radio-control (R/C) models. This spares  the SON lugs from torsion and tugging when installing or removing the sub-harness during wheel changes and is more convenient to reach and easier to dis/connect as well.

I have taken care to arrange the wiring so it forms a "drip loop" to prevent water from following the lead into the SON connectors.

 The lead then travels up the inside of the right fork blade (secured with zip-ties) to the underside of the lower crown plate; extra wire is stuffed into the lower end of the steerer (wooden chopsticks helped with placement) and continues unbroken to the headlight.

2) The taillight connects to the Cyo headlight with the standard B&M 2.8mm spade connectors/lugs, terminating in another Dean's #1225 male connector at the rear of the lower fork crown plate. This allows fork removal for replacement of the headset bearings without disturbing the taillight wiring.

3) The taillight lead connects with a female Dean's connector.

4) Slack wire is coiled on a 4mm radius, then connected with zip-ties to the Rohloff shifter's cable housings along the downtube bosses. It stands clear of the v-brake cable run so the brake can be easily released for wheel removal.

5) The taillight lead continues with the Rohloff cabling under the bottom bracket shell, where...

6) ...another female-to-male Dean's connector allows easy removal of the rear mudguard if needed.

7) The wire enters the rear 'guard behind the left chainstay, cushioned by a Futaba R/C rubber grommet and runs just above the inner edge bead of the SKS 55mm rear fender...

8 ) ...exiting another Futaba-grommeted hole on its way to the taillight. Another Dean's #1225 female-to-male connector allows me to easily remove or exchange taillights or even racks at a later date if desired.

The Dean's connectors are an extremely firm push-fit and won't come loose accidentally. I used beta-cyanoacrylate (super glue) gel to hold the wire inside the edge-bead of the rear mudguard. This has proven itself to be completely secure over a decade of use on my other bikes, and placing the wire at the side shields it from direct stone impacts. Mud and rain have never been a problem. I use silicone high-dielectric grease on the dynohub lugs to ensure connectivity in wet conditions; it isn't necessary with the gold-plated Dean's connectors which fit very tightly and are extremely water-resistant. All wires are soldered and shielded with heat-shrink tubing. To properly clear the handlebar bag and sit at the proper height, I replaced the B&M Cyo headlight mount with one from the IQ Fly.

One other note...the sharp-eyed will spot the reversed bottom low-rider mount. I ran this same setup when the Thorn Low-Loader MkV front racks were on my Miyata and on Sherpa, and Andy Blance suggested I use it again on the Nomad. By running the bolt head on the inside, a broken bolt can be easily removed from the boss without need for an extractor -- it simply unscrews using the hex socket in the head. I will be replacing all the allenhead bolts with hex heads before my next tour. I have found hex-heads make it easier to torque the bolts to spec or remove them years later without risk of distorting the smaller allen socket.

Next task is wiring the Nomad's charging system, then on to the Extrawheel trailer, which has its own SON28 dynohub-powered B&M Toplight Line Plus taillight/standlight powered through a switchable homemade adjustable voltage regulator/rectifier and a parallel charging system using a B&M e-Werk.

Best,

Dan.
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: Andre Jute on May 05, 2013, 02:46:02 PM
My bike is so superior, dirt doesn't stick to it. Sniff.

Joking aside, I clean my bike once a year, whether it needs it or not. Most years I could just brush it down to get rid of road dust, though I wash it anyway with one of those aerosols that is also a wax. (Washing and waxing is actually a condition of the ten-ear  guarantee on the frame. Only in Germany...) For the rest, a quick wipe with a soft tissue when I notice dirt that might transfer to my clothes is the limit of the necessary attention; I'm sure Dan would find plenty on my bike to apply a toothbrush to, but I view it as a functioning machine, not a showpiece. To me "low maintenance" includes "zero time spent cleaning between scheduled valetting stops".

But something I've noticed in the last two years, when the cleaning was skipped because of health problems: there are, despite catalytic converters on cars, still a lot of oily particulates in the air, even in the countryside where I live and ride. They seem not to settle on the painted parts of my bike, or at least to adhere to the paint, but I've always known they have an attraction to stainless steel because most settles on the spokes. But after missing two annual cleaning cycles, I notice that the backs of the BUMM clip-on amber spoke reflectors are pretty oily, on both wheels. The fronts are clean. I don't remember wiping the fronts of the reflectors but I might have done it as a reflexive (sorry!) thing when I saw they were dusty, to restore their full function, but the backs are definitely substantially blackened by oil. And no, I don't think this oil came out of the hubs. The full expected measure of oil came out of the Rohloff hub at the service in April, the chain and sprockets run inside a Hebie Chainglider and anyway have no added oil because I'm still running my factory lube-only experiment, and the Bafang 8FUN electric front hub has only thick grease in it, and what little has come out remains so thick it stays on the hub. It's oily particulate in the air, aided by rubber particulate thrown up from the tarmac I ride.

Odd that it should prefer to stick to stainless steel rather than painted parts.

Andre Jute
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: jags on May 05, 2013, 03:29:09 PM
That nomad just gets better and better well done on another great job Dan ;)
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: Danneaux on May 05, 2013, 05:34:59 PM
Thanks, jags; welcome back.

Several people have written me to ask, "So, Dan, just how 'invisible' are the light wires?"

I wish I could show you, but they're um, invisible.  :-\

Well, not quite.

Photos below show the wiring in a larger context. Taken around six this morning, so a bit dim (me as well as the photos).

Best,

Dan.
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: jags on May 05, 2013, 05:58:59 PM
Cheers Dan yeah very hard to spot them,i like the way you have the connectors fitted makes it easy to take apart very clever, is that a new headlight you have.
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: Danneaux on May 05, 2013, 06:08:30 PM
Quote
is that a new headlight you have
Thanks, jags. No, this is the same B&M HL Lumotec IQ Cyo R Senso Plus nearfield LED headlight I transferred from Sherpa. Mine is bright and works well, but the hot spot in the beam on this 2011 model remains a great annoyance to me. Such a shame B&M changed it for the worse after having it right to start. Still, it is a good light and I'll stay with this for the next year or two to see what developments are brought to market and tested before I switch. I'm a gentleman and let IanShearin go first on the Luxos U; I'm dying to hear and see how it works out for him. Fingers crossed it will be a corker!

Best,

Dan.
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: jags on May 05, 2013, 06:24:44 PM
yes it will be interisting to hear how good that light is,
i was going to buy one few weeks back but though i had better hang on until it was reviewed by some one who know a lot more on lights than me. ::)
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: ianshearin on May 05, 2013, 07:16:47 PM
Will get back with a review as soon as I can test it, trouble is it's way past my bedtime when it gets dark..... ;)
I have a iPhone holder being delivered on Tuesday so I can test how it is with charging, I will do a long run on Thur/Fri and make a point of waiting for the dark to test the light itself so I can get back to you guys with a field test.
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: Danneaux on May 13, 2013, 04:41:03 AM
Hi All!

Today, I wired-up my Tout Terrain The Plug2 with ExtraPower Power Amplification Technology Cord (TTTP2EPPAT or The Plug2Plus -- whew! Many acronyms there...) to the Nomad. Some of you have been asking for photos when it finished, so here they are.

The lot terminates in cross-matched pairs of Deans #1225 gold-plated R/C connectors, as described here: http://www.thorncycles.co.uk/forums/index.php?topic=4523.msg38847#msg38847

The reason for the separate hub connectors is to spare stress on the hub's electrical lugs. The spade connectors fit pretty firmly on thelugs and are hard to attach and remove; moving the connection a few centimeters away with the Dean's connectors spares the hub leads and makes wheel changes much easier and more convenient.

I used separate zip-ties and wired the lights and the charging system independently so I can replace or upgrade components in either system as needed or desired without disturbing the other. I was sore tempted to use only one wire from the dynohub and split it at the fork crown, but decided to wire everything in parallel using piggyback connectors at the hub. This makes for two completely separate systems and makes it possible to cannibalize one for the other in the field if needed. It's all about system independence and redundancy.

Everything works well, and as noted in a post elsewhere ( http://www.thorncycles.co.uk/forums/index.php?topic=3802.msg39009#msg39009 ), the PAT cord does indeed lower the speed at which The Plug2 produces full power under load -- from 7.5mph/12kph instead of 10.3mph/16.58kph with the plain cord.

Best,

Dan.
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: Andybg on May 13, 2013, 05:57:31 AM
It looks fantastically neat as always Dan. If the postage was not so expensive I would send my bike to you to be worked on as the quality of your work is exemplary. You must get such joy from owning such a high quality machine.

When does the first tour begin? It must be soon?

Andy
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: Danneaux on May 13, 2013, 06:06:24 PM
Aw, Andy! Thanks so much for the kind words; they mean a lot.

Yep, part of the fun for me is thinking of new ways to solve bicycle problems elegantly, and it is enjoyable to spend the time executing the solutions. Doing things neatly with more work up front usually results in greater reliability and less work later if something goes wrong or changes -- and it will; part of Life and touring, so I sometimes thank myself later.
Quote
When does the first tour begin? It must be soon?
Indeed, though the departure date is flexible depending on LifeStuff and weather. I'm still awaiting arrival of some international shipments, I need to stick around till some of my father's immediate health issues are resolved, and the weather is a factor. Sitting here in the Willamette Valley, I am glued to the weather radar watching what is happening on the Oregon-Idaho and Oregon-Nevada borders. This has been an unusually dry year here in the Willamette Valley and in the Cascades, and fire danger is high as a result. The snow is all melting early (good for me), but there's still enough rain on the Eastern side I have to make sure the Alvord Desert's playa is dried-out or I really can't ride it. Too soft near the "margins" and I sink. If I'm out there when it is wet, I'll sink in well over my knees; the stuff turns to pudding, and it would not be good to be mid-transit when it all goes pear-shaped: 

Too Early: http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_aQYEj8tugVU/TQQS6rBFX1I/AAAAAAAAGkA/7ONfUmYZRCM/s1600/Alvord-Desert-1-0229-web1-720-CR.jpg
This is Very Bad (the stuff of Danneaux's nightmares): http://annieinoregon.files.wordpress.com/2012/01/dscf8599_22.jpg
This is Bad: http://imgc.allpostersimages.com/images/P-473-488-90/64/6466/RSNH100Z/posters/marli-miller-tire-tracks-on-a-fragile-and-wet-playa-in-the-alvord-desert-of-southeastern-oregon-usa.jpg
...or... http://hqworld.net/gallery/details.php?image_id=24359&sessionid=435a6bcada96897740f28d4de46f1dd3
...or like Lake Ivanpah here: http://popeyethewelder.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/Lake-Ivanpah_Final090312-590x393.jpg
This is Iffy: http://www.marlimillerphoto.com/images/Dep-17.jpg ...or... http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_aQYEj8tugVU/TQQW0Cm6S-I/AAAAAAAAGlQ/nFpKW-EkvnQ/s1600/Alvord-Desert-1-0498-web1-600-CR.jpg
This is Ideal ("Just Right"): http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3352/4633680788_8d178b96e6_z.jpg

At the same time, the snow gates on Steens Mountain (overlooking the Alvord) are still locked and made a recent search for a missing man much more difficult. Similarly, the serious desert heat turns on with a vengeance if I wait too late. Attached below are a couple composite photos from my last go-'round at Steens.

It is a bit of a balancing act, so I've got a "window" rather than a fixed departure date -- between mid-June and the end of the first week in July. Really looking forward to it....

All the best,

Dan.
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: jags on May 13, 2013, 08:33:04 PM
Those photos are stunning thanks for posting Dan,
a man alone with his thoughts not for the faint hearted,
so that rules me out i'm afraid, i can see why you need the perfect timing for such a tour.

the bike looks great as usual.
i went and bought myself asmart phone today no idea how to use it but having fun trying  all the same  ;D ;D
question  for ya Dan would that same charger do to charge my phone.
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: Danneaux on May 13, 2013, 08:59:44 PM
Quote
question  for ya Dan would that same charger do to charge my phone.
Ah, jags...that's the million-dollar question of bicycle dyno-charging a phone! Without knowing the specific make, model, and power requirements of the phone -- and some experimentation -- I can't say, but in general, smart phones are a power-hungry bunch and it can be very hard to supply enough power directly to charge them while operating. Most do best if charged when in the "off" state /or/ if charged through a buffer battery: Hub > charger > buffer battery > phone. *If* your phone will charge through a standard USB computer port, then it might well be charged by my setup. Sadly, it depends very much on many factors, which is what makes this bike-charging business very much hit-or-miss. Certain combinations do great...others, not so much and sometimes not at all.

Best,

Dan.
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: jags on May 13, 2013, 09:16:47 PM
ah no worries dan i'm not to bothered to be honest i'll take the charger that came with the phone with me .i have a neck like steel dont mind asking people to plug it in for me. ;)

the lad in the shop was  very helpfull. i explained i was a total idiot when it came to this tech stuff he said his mom was exactly the same so he recommended the samsung galaxy ace ,looks the buisness so i'll keep pressing buttons until i get the hang of it.
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: Danneaux on May 18, 2013, 12:20:31 AM
Hi All!

I'm replacing the socketed (allen-key) button-head M6x1.0 fittings on my Nomad racks with Grade 4 stainless hex-head bolts like these: http://www.sjscycles.co.uk/m6-stainless-steel-bolt-hexagon-head-sold-in-packs-prod1842/

Why?

While they sure don't look as pretty, they have the advantage in my use of remaining removable after riding on desert playa. The playa in powdered form is talc-fine and drifts everywhere, including the keyed sockets in button-head bolts. When it gets wet, it concretizes and plugs the sockets, making it terribly hard to fit a hex key for removal. At home, I take a scribe or pick awl and whittle away at the concretions, but on the road that isn't very practical and if the key won't fit to full depth, it can tear out the socket (the 6mm threads use only a 4mm kex key); the remaining button-head is very difficult to twist free even with Vise-Grips (mole grips) and one usually ends up cutting a slot across the bolt with a high-speed die grinder. No fun.

The hex-head bolts will take care of all that, torque up nicely or remove with no hint of stripping, and give me three shots at removal if all I have at hand is a two-jawed wrench.

To improve appearances, I turn and polish the hex heads. Graded bolts come with markings cast in the top. Spin-milling them creates a nice starburst effect that is heightened once the bolts are mirror-polished and the remaining tool marks are removed (see attached pic; the polished sample is Grade 4, the unpolished one is Grade 2).

For the remaining socket/allen fittings (things like the chainring pegs/bolts), I use rubber socket plugs. My prior source in Shenzhen, Guangdong China (via AliBaba.com ) has dried up, but I did manage to get some for 5mm and 6mm plugs that fit nicely on cylinder-head fasteners (they don't work as well on button-heads). These plugs do a dandy job keeping the playa dust from clogging up the hex-socket wells and are easily removed yet remain securely in place between service.

Best,

Dan.
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: Danneaux on May 19, 2013, 10:38:11 PM
Hi All!

I'm installing my spare spokes in the Nomad's seatpost using the same plug I made for Sherpa (see: http://www.thorncycles.co.uk/forums/index.php?topic=3896.msg18563#msg18563 ).

Some of you have wondered what size spokes are used on my 2012 Nomad Mk2. The actual lengths of my six Thorn-supplied spare Sapim spokes and Sapim Polyax nipples are:

(3) @ 238mm, butted 1.8/2.0mm, laced cross-2 for the Rohloff hub
(3) @ 260mm, butted 1.8/2.0mm, laced cross-3 for the SON28 (New-style) dynohub

...paired with 26" Rigida Andra 32-hole rims.

There is no "third" spoke length, as one would find with a dished rear wheel on a derailleur-equipped bike. The Rohloff builds into a dishless, centered wheel, so the same length spoke can be used on either side, same as a non-disc front wheel.

Best,

Dan.
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: Danneaux on May 20, 2013, 01:37:20 AM
Hi All!

Progress report: My spoke holder has been fitted to the Nomad along with a nitrile o-ring to seal the seat lug/post joint, and I've reversed the shim keyway to better shield the seat tube from dust and water entry in my use. the attached photos and text below will explain why I did this...

This is the same spoke holder I made for Sherpa, and it seals the spokes rattle-free yet readily accessible within the seat post where they can't be lost and always be handy when required. The spokes ride in three foam donuts to prevent noise. The little monofilament tether attached to the plug makes it easy to remove them when needed (Attached pic #1)

The Nomad uses a 29.8mm OD shim to size-down the seat tube for a 27.2mm seatpost. Thorn very thoughtfully cut the keyway clamping kerf in the seat clamp/tube so it faces forward -- ideal for preventing the rear tire on a bike without mudguards from throwing water, mud, and debris down the seat tube. For it to work most effectively that way, the keyway in the shim should also face forward. However, my bike uses mudguards and the seat lug is well shielded from above and behind by the nitrile o-ring, Zefal pump peg, alarm, and a grease seal. What concerned me was the possibility for water and dust entering through the front. My solution was to insert the shim so its keyway faced 180 away from the one on the seat tube/lug (Attached pic #2). This makes for a tight, grease-seal-aided fit that should keep talc-fine playa and rain from entering the seat tube from the front. A similar setup has worked very well over the last 22 years on my tandem's forward-facing keyways.

Today's effort puts me a couple steps closer to "tour-prepped".

Best,

Dan.
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: NZPeterG on May 20, 2013, 06:43:07 AM
Hi Dan,
The o-ring idea is OK  :) But for years Mountain Biking in the Mud and Rain a far better way to seal off and stop dust and water getting in is to use about 1.5" of an Inner Tube!

Pull or roll up the seat post the Inner Tube, Stick your seat post back in, Roll the Inner Tube down over the seat clamp and seat tube.

So it covers's Seatpost, Clamp, and Seat tube  8) all sealed up and no dirt or water in  :-*

We have to do this in NZ and OZ as we have the finest dust  :o

Pete       ::)

Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: Danneaux on May 20, 2013, 06:48:10 AM
Quote
...a far better way to seal off and stop dust and water getting in is to use about 1.5" of an Inner Tube!
Yep! That'll work too, Pete!

Best,

Dan.
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: NZPeterG on May 20, 2013, 06:57:41 AM
Hi Dan,
Thank for reminding me to do it

Pete   ;)

Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: Danneaux on June 02, 2013, 03:56:15 AM
Hi All!

A nice, sunny day here, one that felt like summer really is coming! What better for a day like this than riding and working on the bike.

Today's progress saw the Nomad essentially finished except for a "someday" Hebie Chainglider. I'm not holding my breath. My last communique' with them received word they don't plan on making a 36T version and, indeed, remain unaware still of Rohloff's approved lower gearing, though proof of it was in Rohloff's materials they attached and forwarded with their last email. Ah, me. Hope springs eternal, but I think it will be awhile before a 36T version makes it to market. I have an inquiry in to Hesling to see what they can come up with. The chaincase they currently make for Idworx looks promising and adaptable to other uses. Very much like Hebie's Chainglider in general appearance, it is apparently affixed and supported behind the right-side BB cup.

Here's the tally for today's efforts, some of which are permanent versions replacing prototypes or temporary pieces I've made and used till the bike's configuration was fixed and finalized:

New anti-rub patches applied to the sides of the head tube, using Trim-brite matte black windshield trim tape. It uses a low-creep adhesive and is a perfect match for the Nomad's paint. Durable and protective also. It remains secure, yet can be peeled off and replaced at a later date without leaving sticky residue behind.

New DIY "pigtail" to power the Garmin Oregon 400T GPS directly from The Plug2+. I have the profile settings adjusted so the screen goes full bright on dyno power, then dims when it reverts to battery. The GPS "wakes up" or "auto-switches" from battery power when my speed is sufficient to power it (roughly 8-11kph or 5-7mph). When I am not charging batteries, this will be a convenient and "free" way to power the GPS. Otherwise, it will run 16 hours continuously on a fully charged pair of Eneloop 2100mAh AA cells, and close to 21 hours on 2700mAh Ni-Mh batteries, depending on settings (dimmed backlight, electronic compass off, which is why I use the compass on the Nomad's bell instead).

New DIY "pigtail" to (re)charge my Panasonic wet/dry electric shaver. When desert touring, I sometimes just don't have the water, basin, or time to spare to "wet" shave with a disposable safety razor, so the electric gets the job done and a single charge is good for about two weeks' worth of shaves. Trims my eyebrows and moustache as well.

New DIY "pigtail" to (re)charge my Kyocera SE47 Slider "dumb" 3G CDMA phone with an external antenna. Voice quality for this phone is excellent, standby time exceeds two weeks in urban settings, and it has terrific range to distant cell towers. Due to limited charging opportunities, I've been leaving it off to save power when "searching" for distant cell towers. Now, I can leave it on if I wish, since I can readily recharge from the bike (I still pack spare, charged batteries in reserve).

That's not "electrical tape" you see on the connectors; instead, it is a "self-vulcanizing silicone wrap" that behaves much like heat-shrink tubing to protect and insulate the wires beneath. Very durable.

A good day's work, and nice to have the bike essentially complete ("Oh no" -- that probably means some new gadget or mod is in the works! Is any bike ever truly "finished"?* There may just be a "better" headlight in the Nomad's future)

Best,

Dan. (...who thinks his grandfather was right when he said electrickery is a wonderful thing)

*No. Next up is a fitted "weather cap" for The Plug2+ so the connector is protected from rain and charging can continue on wet days.
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: jags on June 02, 2013, 10:30:37 AM
wow excellent set up Dan best of luck with your upcoming tour you certainly have the bike in tip top condition ready for anything .have you tried any short day tours with the trailer.
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: mickeg on June 02, 2013, 09:22:06 PM

This is the same spoke holder I made for Sherpa, and it seals the spokes rattle-free yet readily accessible within the seat post where they can't be lost and always be handy when required. The spokes ride in three foam donuts to prevent noise. The little monofilament tether attached to the plug makes it easy to remove them when needed (Attached pic #1)


I used a few bread loaf wrapper twist ties to tie several spokes together and put them in the seatpost.  And a wine cork to keep them there.  The wine cork dried out and fit loosely so I wrapped some PVC electrical tape around it to make a tighter fit in the seatpost.

If I had known where to buy the rubber stopper with wing nut like you used, I would not have had the reason to purchase the wine cork.
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: Danneaux on June 02, 2013, 10:07:10 PM
Quote
have you tried any short day tours with the trailer.
Hi Jags! I don't want to get into it too deeply here, when I badly need to update the topic I dedicated solely to the trailer ( http://www.thorncycles.co.uk/forums/index.php?topic=4953.0 ), but I can say it has performed well on my day trials now I have fitted it with replacement q/r-hitches and a 12mm longer attachment fork, which has cured all interference problems between the Nomad's rear mudguard and a load fitted to the trailer's own rack. Next step is to finish my electrification of the trailer and address a few niggling problems for my own satisfaction. I'm getting there, but it is taking some time. I have some printed-circuit boards soaking in acid as I write this, and the electrics and fabrication work for the taillight mounts are coming along nicely.

In truth, using a trailer is a double-edged sword. For general touring, I much prefer the simplicity of only a loaded bike, but for this next tour, the trailer is essential for carrying the extra food and extra water (20l) I will need for an extended period away from services and sources of potable water (most of the water I will find is alkali -- and cannot be treated to make it drinkable).

Based on my trials, it should be largely unnoticeable on road, mildly noticeable on extremely poor roads, and a real pain going cross-country through sagebrush. The bags hang at the same level as front low-riders, and while the trailer does a wonderful job of following the bike very closely, I do expect it to hang up occasionally. It is an added impediment to lifting the (sometimes 70kg/154lb fully loaded) bike cleanly over barbed-wire fences, and it will be harder to take into a public restroom or secure while parked.

On the other side of the coin, it will double my charging capacity and allow for much better handling than if I were to hang that much extra food and water on the bike alone. It also distributes my total weight over three wheels instead of two, which should help when I encounter moist playa, the kind that can cause the bike to sink halfway to the hubs.

On balance I think it will do well, given the demands of the trip. I will know much better after using it for an extended period of time in these conditions and will know better how to adjust or adapt it to my future use.
Quote
If I had known where to buy the rubber stopper with wing nut like you used, I would not have had the reason to purchase the wine cork.
George, I just wanted something I could make secure and forget about till I needed it. When I couldn't find what I wanted, I made it; the expanding stopper has done the trick. I can't stand rattles, so the foam discs were a necessity for me to hold the spokes away from the inside of the seatpost. So far, it has worked well on Sherpa and now the Nomad.

Best,

Dan.
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: Danneaux on June 03, 2013, 12:07:38 AM
Hi All!

Not purely Nomadish, but I did just finish marking and installing anti-theft tethers on the trailer's Ortliebs to match those in use on the Nomad.

Having read a number of touring accounts, I have concluded it is a Good Idea to mark one's name on panniers, preferably on the inside (wheel side) so one won't get called-out (a common ploy to distract -- "Hey Dan!", you turn and look, and an accomplice grabs whatever), yet allowing ready identification when ownership is disputed or if a stolen bag is recovered. I've marked all six of mine and the underside of the handlebar bag similarly. It worked in kindergarten; should work about as well in adulthood.

The Ortlieb tethers retract into the QL-2 mounting rails and the ends are held unobtrusively but securely by the little clips included in the kit. Though providing no real security -- I'm sure they could be cut by sturdy scissors -- they are small and thin enough to prevent a quick grab-and-go by a thief while parked. By feeding the tethers through their own closed loops, they become large enough to be secured by larger locks. I found my ring-lock will nicely secure my two rear bags, and the plug-in cable for the ring-lock will secure the bike's front wheel as well as the two front panniers. The trailer's panniers will be secured by the same U-lock that secures the SON28 to the trailer and thence to the bike. Given how small, light, and unobtrusive the little Ortlieb tethers are, I think they're worth it for the added convenience when locking the bike briefly while using a restroom or dashing into a country store for supplies. I did once find a front bag detached and sitting by the rack, held by its little tether, so I think they were a deterrent in that case. I know the bag didn't jump off on its own while I was indoors.

I try to remove what I can whenever I briefly leave the bike while on-tour. All my documentation, cash, credit cards , and passport always stay in the HB bag and it goes with me on its shoulder strap when I leave. Before leaving, I tuck the GPS and solar panel inside as well. It's odd...I've occasionally lost things to people I'm sure I've spoken with just before leaving the bike, those who seemed unduly interested in the trip and --when asking others later -- seemed to have been the only people around before driving off. In those instances, it is almost as if they want a souvenir, as they tend to take things that aren't worth much objectively (but are worth a lot on-tour, where everything has a purpose). A compression strap, a double-ended spring clip used to "safety wire" a rack-top item against vibrational loss, even something I've picked up and tucked under a strap, like a wildflower or such. People are peculiar sometimes. In some cases, I've seen it happen and let if go as not worth the hassle if it was an inconsequential item.

Fortunately, I haven't lost a pump or such, but it could happen, I suppose.

Still, I feel a bit better having my name on things and some means to secure them against a casual grab.

Best,

Dan.
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: Danneaux on June 05, 2013, 12:01:55 AM
Hi All!

I was entirely too optimistic and premature when I announced the Nomad was "Done". That may be true for the major elements, but there's always some little tweaking left, right?

In the photo attached below, you can see how some of thiese additional tweaks. First, on the 1l Zefal Magnum water bottles. These are great bottles, odor-free, conveniently large, and leak-proof -- provided you get the lids screwed on tight. Some time ago, I fitted silicone rings in black to the lids and solved that problem. Then, I got to thinking. While on-tour, I tend to reserve one bottle for Gatorade and other sports drinks that can leave the bottle tasting a bit "off" if plain drinking water follows without rinsing first. Also, I tend to reserve one bottle for water-purifying duties, and I make reallyreallyreally *sure* there's no contaminated water on the outside of the bottle to get inside, where the purified stuff lives.

The solution? More silicone bands in different colors. Depending on whether they ride on the grip of the bottle or the lid, they will designate different needs and help keep me on track when I get stoopid from fatigue or heat. I got mine for USD$1.29 from one of many eBay vendors in the 18cm diameter, which proved to be just right: http://www.ebay.com/itm/300736453504?var=600048502223&ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1497.l2649 The red on black bottles will match my red-and-black Ortlieb bags.

The second little tweak involves the bike as tow vehicle for the Extrawheel trailer. I will go into greater detail soon on the trailer's dedicated topic, but for now, the photo below shows the 12mm longer "29er" trailer fork is necessary when using the Extrawheel-mounted rack if the trailer load is to clear the rear mudguard of the bike. Also and happily, the extra length allows the trailer fork to clear the bike's mudguard mudflap. I decided to add this rear mudflap as a courtesy to following cyclists (standard randonneur practice) and it has the added benefit of shielding the bronze bushings and stainless spherical end bearings on the trailer's pivots from corrosive alkali dust kicked up by the bike's rear tire. I looked at Il Padrone's photo of a mud-caked trailer connection earlier in this thread ( http://www.thorncycles.co.uk/forums/index.php?topic=4523.msg36769#msg36769 ...and... http://www.thorncycles.co.uk/forums/index.php?topic=4523.msg36779#msg36779) and concluded the bushings are bound to be happier shielded than not. The mudflap should keep the worst of the glop off them.

The trailer's development continues with my development and refinement of the electrics -- dynohub, charger, and its own lighting system. I've got fresh circuit boards soaking in acid, and am getting the final bits ready to put together.

Best,

Dan. (...who -- while nursing the latest biopsy site on his left earlobe -- urges all to wear sunscreen while outdoors)
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: Danneaux on June 09, 2013, 06:26:41 AM
Boy!

Logging roads are tough on hands (and mine were reasonably well-calloused to begin with) -- even with gel-palmed gloves in use. 'Just constant vibration and moving about on the 'bars. Still, it is good to acquire a fresh set of blisters-to-callouses before I hit the playa and gravel.

Best,

Dan. (...who pines for the days when all roadie gloves had fully padded palms)
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: jags on June 09, 2013, 11:25:42 AM
that looks sore dan honest try weigh lifters gloves the padding is super strong and great for the bike.
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: Slammin Sammy on June 09, 2013, 02:05:20 PM
Dan,

Your dedication and ingenuity leaves us all humble.

Long may you ride.

Sam
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: Danneaux on June 24, 2013, 08:42:39 AM
Hi All!

Late enough to be well into tomorrow here already after a busy day and weekend, so this will be a short post.

Attached is a photo of the Nomad and Extrawheel trailer, taken on a development ride today.

Best,

Dan.
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: ianshearin on June 24, 2013, 08:47:03 AM
Dan, what can I say.....

Your an artist......
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: jags on June 24, 2013, 09:01:47 AM
hell of a build well done. ;)
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: Slammin Sammy on June 24, 2013, 11:41:16 AM
Simply stunning!

Dan, you've set the bar VERY high. That is a flagship!

Sam
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: honesty on June 24, 2013, 12:32:34 PM
need to change the mudguard on the extrawheel... its the only thing thats not black!  ;)

Looks stunning.
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: jags on June 24, 2013, 12:50:42 PM
i spotted that as well but i bet  you a pound to a penny he has a reason for that. ;D
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: freddered on June 24, 2013, 03:27:42 PM
What mudguards are you using on the front?  I like the way it wraps right over the front wheel so you don't get any spray up from the front tyre.

Looks great by the way.

Now fit a front rack..for that totally macho look
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: Andybg on June 24, 2013, 04:03:19 PM
looking stunning Dan.

Not much more to do now and she will be perfect.

I bet you are kicking yourself at not getting another pack of spoke reflectors?

Andy
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: Danneaux on June 24, 2013, 06:07:34 PM
Hi All!

Thanks so much for the kind words and thoughts; very much appreciated!

I will soon have some detailed posts and photos showing updates on the trailer in its own section, here: http://www.thorncycles.co.uk/forums/index.php?topic=4953.msg25499#msg25499

The Extrawheel trailer is nearly complete for my requirements, needing only the final modifications to make generate power and recharge batteries while I sleep in camp at night. It is deceptively easy; I have proven it will work and have already successfully prototyped it. I just need to extend my days beyond 20 hours to make it happen!

I do so wish the trailer had been supplied with a black mudguard! The special SKS model Extrawheel use is 60mm wide and bridgeless -- the stays attach to side bead-clips that support the 'guard in lieu of a fork crown or brake bridge. To replace it with a black one would require me to purchase a whole set, then cannibalize the pair to make one (transfer and re-riveting of steel stay bridges). This is just too expensive at the moment, so I have contented myself with applying my usual "Ride the World" motto and Nomad Tuareg logo in gold-reflective black Scotchlite and adding an SKS reflector to the 'guard. Reflectors aren't available on SKS' offerings outside the Eurozone, so I had to source one from a friend in Rotterdam.

I keep telling myself that perhaps the silver 'guard will help visibility, but who am I fooling? Someday, a black Extrawheel 'guard will be mine!  ;)

Yes, Andy, an order has been placed for more spoke reflectors. The ones on the trailer are indeed left over from a double-36 set for the bike, which has 32-spoke wheels. Meanwhile, the cluster of reflectors does impart an attention-getting "wobble-effect" when seen at night.

Fred, you're spot-on as to the purpose and reason for the longer front 'guard, made from a repurposed rear model. I've thought about doing this for the last 35 years, and got really close on one of my rando bikes before putting this on the Nomad. I simply cannot believe the difference it makes toward keeping dry and the bike stays ever so much cleaner. The velocity of water thrown from the mudguard is much lower by the time it shoots out the extended end and it is directed downward, so I don't ride into my own spray. It does look...different, but oh what a positive functional difference!

Thanks, All!

Best,

Dan.
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: honesty on June 24, 2013, 07:12:52 PM
Sounds like its time to get the black spray paint out! ;)
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: Danneaux on June 24, 2013, 07:15:05 PM
Quote
...black spray paint...
Ooh! So, so tempted! If I do, it might be this stuff: http://www.krylon.com/products/fusion-for-plastic/

Best,

Dan. (...who likes a "complete" look)
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: jags on June 24, 2013, 07:23:54 PM
Dan what about carbon wrap might be better than paint.
but even so the bike is stunning excellent build and that front mudguard looks great,
but a silly question when you hit the rough stuff especially on a rain sodden track will it give you grief with muck building up under it just a thought.
or have you figured a way to prevent this happening.

Dan please do a video of that whole set up ;)
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: Danneaux on June 24, 2013, 07:47:38 PM
Quote
Dan what about carbon wrap might be better than paint.
I think you may well be right, jags. I have reservations about the paint; it looks so bad when it chips and a lot of stones hit the mudguards. I am thinking about a toughened black vinyl, stretched and then heat-set in place. I'm looking into this further.
Quote
that front mudguard...when you hit the rough stuff especially on a rain sodden track will it give you grief with muck building up under it
Another good thought, and one that occurred to me as well, so I tested a lot in local mud during some recent rains. The 'guard clears the front tire by a bit "extra" as you can see from a sliver of daylight coming through between 'guard and tire in some of the earlier photos -- clearance is a generous 20mm minimum, with a bit more at the lower rear. Of course, when one is in heavy mud or clay like Il Padrone showed in his photos, any mudguards will clog, and this is why you sometimes see world tourists without mudguards -- they can't clog if they're not there! I agree, it will be a horrible mess if I run into wet playa; that stuff sticks like clay and builds up terribly. A lot of mass and weight can soon accumulate and the wheels lock right up, stopping all forward progress.

It is horses for courses here; I'm hoping for the desert conditions I'll encounter, all will be fine. There will be a lot of paved road-riding to get there, and if it rains, these longer 'guards will help a lot. One of my concerns is the crushed lava used to sand the roads and provide traction in winter snows. There's still buckets of the red stuff on all the shoulders of the mountain passes, and without 'guards, it will get thrown right on the chain, where it acts like grinding compound. It is a tough call, but I figured mudguards would be a good idea on this trip. If not...I may need to remove and carry them till I reach better conditions, just as Il Padrone Pete did.

Some years ago, I experimented and found good luck spraying the underside of my mudguards with PAM cooking spray, made with canola oil: http://www.pamcookingspray.com/ It isn't suitable for all conditions, but can make a real difference when riding in the sort of thing that can build up. You wipe off the excess so it won't ran down and grease the tires and rim braking tracks. The accumulated goo just sort of sloughs off, rather than sticking. The PAM can make a terrible mess if one is careless when applying it and it needs to be reapplied from time to time, but surely can help, depending. I first used it to keep grass clippings from building up under the decks of lawnmowers. It worked better than products intended for that use, was less expensive, and didn't have the chemical concerns. I've also waxed the underside of the mudguards from time to time, and that worked surprisingly well at keeping the accumulation from sticking as much.
Quote
Dan please do a video of that whole set up
I will! I will have three video/video-capable cameras with me, so I should have some to show you. I plan to do a video walkaround of the bike as well. Just need to stretch those days!

Best,

Dan.
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: Andybg on June 24, 2013, 08:06:40 PM
The coating of the mudguards with oil made me think of this:

http://www.before-n-after.co.uk/nonstickpages.html

It is a treatment used on the underside of offroad vehicles to help them not build up with mud. It may be something to consider if you are planning on touring in muddy conditions a lot.

I am sure it will be available (or something very similar) stateside

Andy
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: Danneaux on June 24, 2013, 08:08:51 PM
My! That is impressive, Andy! Thanks for the reference link!

Best,

Dan. (...who is now busily "looking")
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: rualexander on June 24, 2013, 09:43:31 PM
Dan,

Here's a guy who wrapped his Brompton mudguards with carbon effect car wrapping foil, http://www.flickr.com/photos/thomasweinert/6874412240/
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: Danneaux on June 24, 2013, 09:46:03 PM
Thanks, Rual!

To my eyes, a beautiful result and I like it very much. More appropriate and long-lasting than paint in this application, I think.

Best,

Dan.
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: NZPeterG on June 25, 2013, 12:18:23 AM
Hi Dan!

I have been Thinking (yes its painful) why not more Extrawheel trailer's like a OZ Road Train?

Pete

Who would like to tour the World on Only One Wheel  :P


Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: NZPeterG on June 25, 2013, 12:34:50 AM
Hi Dan,
Here is a OZ Road Train!

(http://static.commercialmotor.com/big-lorry-blog/Titan%20AB%20Quad%20Road%20Train%20-WA.jpg)

Pete  :P

Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: Danneaux on June 25, 2013, 12:37:05 AM
Quote
...why not more Extrawheel trailer's like a OZ Road Train?
;D Indeed one could, Pete, and it could go on endlessly! The Extrawheel's fork is width-adjustable, so you'd just have to set each subsequent fork to the (narrower) width of the trailer ahead. I have to tell you, after seeing the photo of an Oz Road Train...I *really* like the look!
Quote
Pete...Who would like to tour the World on Only One Wheel
Or...you could fit an Extrawheel trailer to your unicycle and call it a "bicycle". My Nomad becomes a 3-wheeler when towing the trailer!

Best,

Dan.
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: NZPeterG on June 25, 2013, 01:11:07 AM
My Nomad becomes a 3-wheeler when towing the trailer!

Best,

Dan.

Hi Dan,
As a Road Train with one more trailer (4 wheels) it would become a Car!

Pete  :P

Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: moodymac on June 30, 2013, 07:22:08 PM
Dan,

I just thought about you going on your tour and realized that you have not revealed your newly discovered way of generating electricity while sleeping.  I was very interested to see what you have come up with.  Are you going to reveal this prior, during, or after the trip?  I think you were baiting us.  Can't wait!


Tom
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: Danneaux on June 30, 2013, 08:38:40 PM
Quote
I just thought about you going on your tour and realized that you have not revealed your newly discovered way of generating electricity while sleeping.  I was very interested to see what you have come up with.  Are you going to reveal this prior, during, or after the trip?  I think you were baiting us.  Can't wait!
Hi Tom!

I've been so busy making and testing, I haven't had time to write it up yet! There's something else, too. I don't want to present things as final until I've tested and confirmed they really will work in all circumstances. Otherwise, I label them as development exercises, as I did with my initial post on the trailer. Those were the labeled "goals" and now I've met them.  ;D I also like to do things to a high standard so they look nice and are reliable.

I'll put more detail in the "Charging from a Dynamo" and trailer threads, but for now...there's two methods of charging while I sleep:

1) The Joos Solar charger is now proven for my needs in all trials to date. It has a large accumulator battery that charges during the day. Once the battery is charged to capacity, any excess can pass through direct-to-device or will at least minimize the drain on the storage battery. I've played with it extensively here at home, and found it is ideal for charging things once I get to camp and while I sleep. I just plug in and my gadgets are charged just as they woud be from mains power. My primary use for it will be to recharge the camera batteries, as those are otherwise intended to be charged while residing in the camera, resulting in downtime and greater risk of damage with the camera out of the case. I have a clip-on charger that will work directly on the bare camera batteries, but it would be better to deal with the camera-charging issue overnight in camp. The dynohubs will be used most often to (re)charge the AA cells used by the SteriPen water purifier and the GPS, both of which are high-draw/high-drain devices.

2) The electrification of the Extrawheel trailer so far appears to be a roaring success. I plan to make detachable vanes for the spokes and use the trailer to generate power for me at night when the desert winds are blowing (would work nicely at the coast also). I have the plans all drawn up, and the vane prototypes work perfectly but are not durable enough to take with me on-tour and I don't want them to remain attached while I ride. The material I need for them (a tensioned membrane) is available from a specialty shop outside my immediate area, and I'm not sure I can get the stuff and make the vanes in time before departure. The prototypes worked so well, I will move ahead any case. I really wish I had them in hand now.. No windup...I just want to make sure it works, rather than present a string of things that are half-baked.

Soon, all will be revealed!  I appreciate your interest, Tom, and can't wait to tell all about it and show photos as well.

Best,

Dan. (...who loves being electrically self-sufficient -- except for the netbook. That's next on the list to address)
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: moodymac on June 30, 2013, 09:56:54 PM
Dan,

Thanks for the reply.  Sounds as though you may have a base camp or two in mind?  Not having read of your past tours (are any on line?), I don't really know how you like to tour/camp.  Looks like you have gotten everything going in the right direction.  Can not wait for your (as usual) through report back.

One thing that really peaked my interest was when you stated that the answer was right under your nose.  What was that?

Are you going to post (blog) during the tour, or after?  And where?


Thanks

Tom
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: Danneaux on July 01, 2013, 05:12:07 AM
Quote
Sounds as though you may have a base camp or two in mind?  Not having read of your past tours (are any on line?), I don't really know how you like to tour/camp.
Hi Tom! Good questions! No, no base camps...what I usually do is get up at about 04:50AM and try to be on the road by about 05:30, putting in a good 32km/20mi before stopping for breakfast. I ride through the day and usually go to sleep about 21:00/9PM at the latest. Oddly, I sleep far better while on-tour, a marked contrast to my usual 4-6 hours'/night sleep at home. I will be wild/stealth camping for the majority of the trip and may spend 1 night a week in a motel.

I use a 1-person tent and really go inside only to sleep, rather than using it as a layover point. Otherwise, I'm out in all weather, including cooking outside if it is raining.

Quote
One thing that really peaked my interest was when you stated that the answer was right under your nose.  What was that?
I'll tell and show you very soon; it is nearly finished. What I meant was, sometimes the answer to a seemingly complex problem is nowhere as complicated as it first appears, it can be just a matter of looking at something the right way and finding the answer was before you all the time. That's when the facepalm moment occurs and a person says, "Duh!"  ::)

This is why it usually takes 6-9 months for any of my new bikes to become setup the way I want them. I have some ideas in mind right away, but it can take awhile -- and getting to know the bike -- before I'll decide how to execute a plan and then do it in a way that pleases me. All part of the fun.
Quote
Are you going to post (blog) during the tour, or after?  And where?
Tom, I plan to take my little netbook with me and blog at the end of each day in camp, writing up the day's events, dumping the day's video and photo cards, and downloading my GPS tracks. I'll also do a short video "bedside diary". You can see a couple examples here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AISuUrSM74Q
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eLC2_m04vwY
My channel is here: https://www.youtube.com/user/TheSherpaRider
Because battery charging is no longer a problem, I'll be taking more cameras on this trip: A GoPro HD Hero2 for recording at 1080p, a flip Vimeo that records in 720P, and a Sony DSC-HX20 that shoots in 1080P with geotagging and recordable tracking for stills and video, my usual camera clamp/mini-tripod with deadwood screw, a Tamrac ZipShot tripod, and my GoPro camera extender, chest harness, and helmet mount.

On my return, I'll establish a blog and website with my own domain and update the blog as I would when taking the trip. I'll post the URL to the Forum so you can all follow along After. I can't upload photos and content daily while traveling because I won't have lengthy access to the Internet; I'm keeping communications brief so I can put the miles in.

I will be in regular contact with the Forum and will regularly screen new members from the spam filter and do all the usual background and foreground administrative things, but won't have as active a member presence or contribute as frequently or comprehensively as usual for the duration 'cos I'll be busy riding!  ;D

The netbook has been a bump in the road. I got perhaps the last and most evolved of the breed back in November with an HP Mini 1104, running Win7Pro with 2GB of memory, a true dual-core Atom Cedar Trail processor, and Intel graphics that allow smooth (really!) playback of 1080P video and an accelerometer-protected 320GB hard drive. I had it tri-booting into my own Linux distro and Android with a commonly-accessible data partition. Battery life is rated at 9.5-10.5 hours, and there's where I ran into a snag. There was apparently a short somewhere, and the battery would discharge at the rate of 1%/hour when stored in the unpowered machine. Bluetooth never connected either. After three unsuccessful repairs, the Ultrabook they sent in replacement has a smaller battery and greater power consumption due to its faster, more powerful i3 processor. 2-3 hours' battery life isn't enough for my tour-journaling needs, so I've sourced a refurbed version of the discontinued HP Mini 1104. So far, it is holding a charge in storage, though the Bluetooth still has issues. We'll see how it goes, but early signs are promising. I tried a very nice Samsung 10" Android tablet, but found the voice dictation unreliable and the onscreen keyboard fine for keying in Google search terms but unworkable for production writing and really short of storage -- about half the capacity of one of my camera SD cards.

I really need a keyboard to write and blog on. After a lifetime of over-using my hands, it has caught up with me and I'm just a stone's throw from carpal tunnel syndrome. After some 16 hours holding the handlebars on rough roads, I can't write my own name legibly, so yeah, I've got to go with a keyboard of some sort. The netbook is smaller, lighter, and more compact than a tablet, stand, and separate keyboard.

I am concerned about two things as my departure approaches. First, the weather. At present, it is blistering hot here in the American West, and a few more even hotter days lie ahead. Here in the Willamette Valley, it was 34C/94F today and 44C/112F in one of the towns I'll be passing through and even hotter in the desert where I'll be on the Eastern side of Steens Mountain, which will serve as a reflector oven. My house is not air-conditioned and the wall thermostat says it is 30.5C/87F indoors with the windows open and the fans on as I type this a little after 9PM. Things should cool off some by the time I am due to leave. Second, the fire danger is extreme and could result in re-routing from my planned itinerary. I won't hesitate to eat some cold meals rather than risk a spark from the stove.

More updates as departure nears.

Best,

Dan.
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: moodymac on July 01, 2013, 07:48:26 PM
Thanks Dan, very informative as always.  Checked out your videos, all good.  Must be a book in your head just waiting to bust out.   As far as Duh moments, been there and done that!

Here is wishing you a dry, cool, sand less, bug less, all tailwind, and down hills aplenty tour.


Tom

(and all great meals)
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: Danneaux on July 01, 2013, 08:09:34 PM
Oh! Thanks, Tom! 'Couldn't ask for better travel wishes, and very much appreciated!

This will be a busy week as I try to pull it all together...always so much do to at the "last minute" no matter how long is spent in preparation.

Stellar news: The refurb'd netbook is holding 100% battery charge at the 48-hour mark when stored in the "off" machine, so this example doesn't have the same electrical short as the first one I struggled with since November -- yay!
Quote
Must be a book in your head just waiting to bust out.
Yes! Actually, there's all kindsa stuff up there waiting to bust out, and it frightens the neighbors.  ;)

All the best,

Dan. (...who always wonders where the time goes in the run-up to a tour departure)
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: jags on July 01, 2013, 09:04:19 PM
wonder will i get a mention in that book. ;) ;D ;D ;D
Say Dan if its that hot then change your plans no amount of water will save your arse in that kinda heat . :o
i seen on the news tonight 19 firefighters lost there lives trying to stop a raging fire . :'(
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: Danneaux on July 01, 2013, 10:19:14 PM
Hi All!

Tom, I couldn't wait, either, so I posted a YouTube video of the Extrawheel trailer as in-camp windpower generator.

Story and background in the trailer thread here:
http://www.thorncycles.co.uk/forums/index.php?topic=4953.msg41815;topicseen#msg41815

Direct to the video here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QwGvKlMBftc

It works a treat, meeting all expectations at present, though I need to finish the quick-detachable, dynamic-chord vane design.

Best,

Dan.
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: Danneaux on July 01, 2013, 10:37:38 PM
Yes, jags, I will indeed be careful. The thing that makes this heat "different" for us here is the added humidity that came with it. Usually, out summer heat is pretty dry, but this was different, coming after heavy rains that soaked the soil and also the air mass itself is heavy with water. It is nowhere near the heat/humidity I knew when living for a year in the American South, but bad for here. I will watch it.

Yes, a real tragedy about the loss of those wildland firefighter. We lost a crew of 14 or so some years ago, and it was just terrible. My thoughts are with them and their families.

Hopefully, the temps will have cooled a bit by liftoff time. Today is plenty warm in mid-high 90sF (34.4C today), but should cool to the upper-80s by Thursday.

Best,

Dan.
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: moodymac on July 02, 2013, 02:32:59 AM
Dan,

Thanks for the early briefing.  That is really cool!  In my minds eye, I could only envision having the trailer on its side.  Unpack, point the bike into the wind, turn trailer over, attach vanes, plug in devise(s), go to tent, try to sleep, get up in ten minutes, look at every thing working, laugh in glee, look around to see if anyone is looking, laugh in glee again, try to sleep.

All kidding aside, it is a very "neat" and ingenious idea come to life.  Was the turning the trailer on its top the Duh moment?


Very impressed, Tom
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: Danneaux on July 02, 2013, 02:42:48 AM
Quote
Was the turning the trailer on its top the Duh moment?
Yep. ;D So obvious I'd missed it completely at first.
Quote
Unpack, point the bike into the wind, turn trailer over, attach vanes, plug in devise(s), go to tent, try to sleep, get up in ten minutes, look at every thing working, laugh in glee, look around to see if anyone is looking, laugh in glee again, try to sleep.
:o Scared! Didn't know my webcam was two-way...you've been peeking!   ;)

The nearest alternative also worked surprisingly well: Attaching the flag crosswise to the trailer rack using a couple nitrile o-rings to slip the mast through. It worked fine to hold the inverted trailer upright, but this is easier and even more secure and I don't have to carry the nitrile o-rings.

Thanks again for the kind feedback, Tom. It sure has been a fun project to see toward completion.

All the best,

Dan. (...who usually has several ideas churning around "up there")
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: Danneaux on July 03, 2013, 03:58:43 AM
Hi All!

I'm terribly concerned about the current heat wave affecting the American West and how it will affect my bike-touring travel plans. If all goes well, I would leave at dawn on Tuesday July 8th...but all is not going well in terms of weather. Continued record-high temps dog my entire route now and are predicted to do so for the next 30 days, there is *no* shelter or shade for much of it, and the road surface is even hotter thanks to reflection.

I'm a responsible traveler and risk-averse, so if things don't improve, I'll be postponing the trip. At this point, I could reschedule for September -- August if I can change an appointment. Heat stroke is nothing to make light of, and I want to reassure concerned friends I won't take off merely to satisfy a schedule. The whole point is to go out, have fun, and return so I can take future trips. We'll see how it goes. Never hurts to be ready, and it will happen when it is "supposed" to. Many thanks to those who have PM'd or emailed me in concern.

If the trip doesn't "happen" on time, then I'll use the time to further build my mileage base with loaded and unloaded day rides, finish the windmill vanes on my Extrawheel trailer, test their new q/r-hitches for them, and hopefully meet one of our members if our schedules allow. At the moment, my poor livingroom looks like Expedition Central (see photos below). The observant among you can see my sticky-note reminder system posted in the chair cushion for easy reference. It will look much neater when all is packed and loaded on the bike and trailer.

Right now, I'm taking things day by day and seeing how the weather forecasts go.

Best,

Dan. (...who at the moment really wishes he could control the weather)
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: Andybg on July 03, 2013, 05:30:22 AM
It all looks very organised Dan and sorry to hear the weather may have to change your plans. I am sure when it happens it will be just an adventure to remember.

Andy

PS - if you are planning on taking the tv with you, you might need a bigger trailer.
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: Danneaux on July 03, 2013, 05:39:47 AM
Quote
PS - if you are planning on taking the tv with you, you might need a bigger trailer.
;D Made my day with that comment, Andy, made my day! ;D

Best,

Dan. (...who needs either at least a bigger dynohub or a longer extension cord)
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: Danneaux on July 03, 2013, 07:26:46 AM
Man! The weather on my touring route has gone mad!
Quote
SEL4
  
   URGENT - IMMEDIATE BROADCAST REQUESTED
   SEVERE THUNDERSTORM WATCH NUMBER 664
   NWS STORM PREDICTION CENTER NORMAN OK
  
   THE NWS STORM PREDICTION CENTER HAS ISSUED A
   SEVERE THUNDERSTORM WATCH FOR PORTIONS OF
  
          NORTHERN IDAHO
          CENTRAL AND NORTHEAST OREGON
          SOUTHEAST AND EAST CENTRAL WASHINGTON
  
   EFFECTIVE THIS FRIDAY AFTERNOON AND EVENING FROM 205 PM UNTIL 900
   PM PDT.
  
   HAIL TO 2 INCHES IN DIAMETER...THUNDERSTORM WIND GUSTS TO 70
   MPH...AND DANGEROUS LIGHTNING ARE POSSIBLE IN THESE AREAS.
  
   THE SEVERE THUNDERSTORM WATCH AREA IS APPROXIMATELY ALONG AND 75
   STATUTE MILES EAST AND WEST OF A LINE FROM 55 MILES WEST OF BURNS
   OREGON TO 70 MILES EAST NORTHEAST OF EPHRATA WASHINGTON.  FOR A
   COMPLETE DEPICTION OF THE WATCH SEE THE ASSOCIATED WATCH OUTLINE
   UPDATE (WOUS64 KWNS WOU4).
  
   REMEMBER...A SEVERE THUNDERSTORM WATCH MEANS CONDITIONS ARE
   FAVORABLE FOR SEVERE THUNDERSTORMS IN AND CLOSE TO THE WATCH
   AREA. PERSONS IN THESE AREAS SHOULD BE ON THE LOOKOUT FOR
   THREATENING WEATHER CONDITIONS AND LISTEN FOR LATER STATEMENTS
   AND POSSIBLE WARNINGS. SEVERE THUNDERSTORMS CAN AND OCCASIONALLY
   DO PRODUCE TORNADOES.
  
   DISCUSSION...THUNDERSTORMS ARE BEGINNING TO INCREASE OVER CENTRAL
   OREGON IN RESPONSE TO DYNAMIC FORCING ASSOCIATED WITH SHORT WAVE
   TROUGH MOVING NEWD ALONG THE PACIFIC NORTHWEST COAST.  AIR MASS IS
   CONTINUING TO WARM AND DESTABILIZE IN THE WAKE OF EARLIER CONVECTION
   MOVING NEWD ACROSS NERN WA.  DEVELOPMENT OF A DEEP WELL-MIXED
   BOUNDARY LAYER WILL ENHANCE POTENTIAL FOR DAMAGING WIND GUSTS...AND
   40-45 KT DEEP LAYER SHEAR WILL PROMOTE THREAT FOR SUPERCELLS WITH
   DAMAGING WINDS AND HAIL.  ACTIVITY IS EXPECTED TO SPREAD NEWD TOWARD
   SERN WA AS MID/UPPER LEVEL JET STREAK LIFTS NEWD ACROSS AREA.
  
   AVIATION...A FEW SEVERE THUNDERSTORMS WITH HAIL SURFACE AND ALOFT
   TO 2 INCHES. EXTREME TURBULENCE AND SURFACE WIND GUSTS TO 60
   KNOTS. A FEW CUMULONIMBI WITH MAXIMUM TOPS TO 450. MEAN STORM
   MOTION VECTOR 22030.
  
  
   ...WEISS
It was 38.9C/102F in Burns today...and they're expecting 50mm/2in hailstones?!? That's the same diameter as my Duremes. And 112kph/70mph winds?!? And lightning and possible tornado formation?

Yeah, taking it day by day for departure.

Best,

Dan. (...who wonders what's next)
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: Danneaux on July 03, 2013, 07:44:38 AM
Hi All!

Getting worse...and bigger. And now, the Owyee is afire -- 10,000 acres are alight and no control, plus two more lightning-sparked fires burning south of Baker City and east of Burns, right smack-dab square on my route. Those 112kph/70mph winds will whip up a firestorm. See the entry for July 2nd here: http://wildfireoregondeptofforestry.blogspot.com/ Almost 20,000 acres ablaze at the moment. That's 31.25 sq mi or 81 sq km already...and it is only July 2nd (now the 3rd, I need to go to bed).

Since my last post just a few minutes ago, the affected area has moved to the spine of the Cascade mountains, a 100km day's ride just east of Eugene.

My, my! 'Glad I'm not out in it now....

Best,

Dan. (...who is almost reluctant to check for the next weather update)
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: ianshearin on July 03, 2013, 12:12:00 PM
Crikey, thats some bad weather your having over there Dan.

Fingers crossed Mother Nature calms down.
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: jags on July 03, 2013, 04:03:11 PM
Ah Dan stay were you are for the time being that weather will kill you buddy.
its supposed to be a holiday adventure after all theres no fun cycling in those conditions.
concerned for you dan.

jags.
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: Danneaux on July 05, 2013, 07:07:58 AM
Hi All!

Weather's improving with an onshore flow of cooler marine air. Have pushed back the date for departure to midweek to allow cooler temps and am doing a re-route in the NE corner of my tour to avoid the burgeoning fires in East of Burns and spreading from the Owyhee. Should be much better.

Meanwhile, I was playing with repacking my touring gear in the Danneaux Tent-Testing Facility (backyard) and felt like something was watching me. Turned out to be five "somethings" -- a mother raccoon and her 4 kits.

The neighbor woman's cat collection has grown to 24, and she leaves food outside, so the raccoons evidently figured a daylight raid was in order; they had planned the burglary very carefully and all were wearing masks to prevent CCTV identification. It was successful except for the sole witness -- me. If the hadn't been spotted, I think they might have gone for the loot in the panniers.

In the photo below, you can see the ringleader, the notorious MamaRaccoon, on the lookout for pursuers. She had the runt with her, while the other three decided to make their getaway via the lilac trees, thence to the fence.

Best,

Dan.
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: John Saxby on July 05, 2013, 03:06:18 PM
Wise decision, Dan, to wait a bit.  That cooler damp air will be a relief. (Was slightly astonished to see the coastal temps some 30 - 35 degrees F  lower than the interior!)  Appears that the temps may be climbing again towards the end of next week, however, so do take care.  Insh'allah, I'll take a break from camping & stay overnight in the caf/hotel at Denio Jct NV a week from tomorrow (Sat), due SW of where you will be heading, so will raise a glass to your journey!  Go well,  J.
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: Danneaux on July 05, 2013, 04:25:06 PM
Quote
I'll take a break from camping & stay overnight in the caf/hotel at Denio Jct NV
Very good, John! You'll be overlaying some of my 2010 tour route there after I left Nevada's Black Rock Desert and can see a video of me awakening in my camp outside the town garbage dump: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AISuUrSM74Q

You'll be eating and staying at Bobby Putney's place. He graduated from my high school a few years after I did, and is a hunting buddy of my across-the-street neighbor. The hotel room walls are paper thin, and you'll see a huge motorcycle sculpture out front. His burgers are very good, and you'll likely have a pleasant conversation with the waitress, who used to work for the molybdenum mine that closed when worldwide prices plummeted, and whose boyfriend works a claim at the opal mines just west of town.

My late neighbor and his brother used to own a good part of Denio, before the post office was hauled by cat tractor across the Oregon border to Nevada for tax purposes in 1950. You can still see part of Old Denio north of Bobby's place.

Small world, eh? Even in such remote, open country, everyone seems to know each other and is connected in some way. If they mention the cyclist who made it through a night-long storm of 70mph wind-blown ice pellets atop Blizzard Gap and then climbed the iced-up Doherty Slide, it was me.

Wild burros and mustang horses to see, too. As you head west, catch the petroglyphs at Greaser Canyon and be sure to stop in Adel to see the interior of the store there, a taxidermist's dream come true (see photo below). If you're musically inclined, the store was immortalized in Canadian singer-songwriter Ian Tyson's song, M.C. Horses:
"If you ever have a beer at the Adel Store
"Say hi to Chuck and Annie.
"They'll show you them big ol' steer heads up there hangin'".

See: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7h-Oqy3MhaI

Chuck and Annie no longer have the store, but the M.C. ranch is located just a mile or so south of it on 3-14/Twentymile Road.

Safe-happy journey, John. I'll raise a water bottle to you as well!

All the best,

Dan.
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: jags on July 05, 2013, 05:11:04 PM
wow Dan that guy sure can sing i'm listening to his song right now at full volume great  love it.
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: Danneaux on July 05, 2013, 05:29:32 PM
Quote
love it.
...then you'll probably also like these, jags:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oX23Ejqwu0g
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B3m7ckGhnsc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4NuIKF2D7cw
Ian Tyson did some duets with Neil Young, as well. A few are on YouTube, as I recall.

More here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ian_Tyson
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ian_%26_Sylvia

All the best,

Dan. (...whose musical tastes range from speed-metal to folk and right on through to Tuvan throat-singing but doesn't go much for rap)
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: jags on July 05, 2013, 05:37:15 PM
what are you serious my favourate artist is Neill Young.ok have to listen to those songs thanks Dan. ;)
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: jags on July 05, 2013, 05:43:42 PM
this is great stuff 4 strong winds beautifull.
nice d45 martin guitar .
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: John Saxby on July 05, 2013, 06:37:26 PM
Hi Jags and Dan,  Back in the day, my wife Marcia was part of a group who opened for Ian and Sylvia on one of their visits to Washington DC, in the early/mid 1960s.  (Reflected glory! About 15 years later, Sylvia was singing in a small town up the Valley, and was very gracious when Marcia told her the story.  We helped her out by explaining to her band, the best way from Ottawa into New York -- they were en route to Greenwich Village.)  Ian's no spring chicken--we saw him in Ottawa a couple of summers ago, and it took some time for his voice to warm up...but he did a great version of "La primera" (a view of the European conquest of the Americas, through the eyes & voice of a Spanish mustang.)  Ian's return to life on the ranch in the last 25-plus years has given him a creative burst, and his musical tributes to cowboys and their culture are excellent.  For me, though, his early song "Summer Wages" remains one of the very best.  (There is a debate about whether it's the best Canadian folk song, and he certainly has a claim there -- though I think I'd opt for one of Stan Rogers' marvellous pieces.)  Both of them give you great songs to sing while cycling -- for me, when I'm well out of others' earshot.

Denio, Elko, Paradise -- I know those names, Dan, from Ian Tyson's music, and a couple of other singers too.  Will look for your tracks at Denio Jct!

J.
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: jags on July 05, 2013, 08:06:48 PM
ok its back to utube to see if i can find that song thanks John ;)
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: jags on July 05, 2013, 08:08:49 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ef8Z89TPpkE.
is this it if not no matter its class i love it. ;)
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: Danneaux on July 05, 2013, 08:32:22 PM
Absolutely amazing connections, John! ...and what a wonderful followup years Later!

Somehow, we'll all find everyone on the Forum is a blood relative before we're done.  :D
Quote
great songs to sing while cycling -- for me, when I'm well out of others' earshot.
We'd make a great duet, John, unbothered by predators and more social creatures alike! If we formed a trio with jags, we could be the hummers in the background while he carried the lead.  :D

All the best,

Dan. (...who is breaking-down food packages and bagging meals for travel and re-oiling the Nomad's chain with Purple Extreme)
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: jags on July 05, 2013, 09:32:41 PM
great stuff that purple extream ;) getting oh so close Dan  nerves with soon start to kick in .
yeah great connection with the music small world indeed.
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: John Saxby on July 05, 2013, 10:55:09 PM
Jags,

There was some block on the YouTube link you sent (someone somewhere upset with us colonials?)  Anyway, here's a good version of "Summer Wages":  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=65CL9NrlL5I

This is from 1986--we were all a bit younger then--with Ian singing with Sylvia & Emmy-Lou Harris.  The later version of "Summer Wages", on the "Cowboyography" collection, is a bit more up-tempo.  I personally like this earlier one better -- the regretful tone works better a bit slower. 

More name-dropping:  my wife went to high school with Emmy-Lou Harris. (!!) (Not making this up.)

Looking on YouTube for "La Primera" -- couldn't find it.  :-(   It's from his 1999 album, "Lost Herd".  Lovely stuff.

A lot of cowboys were Irish -- hence the fiddle music, and as La Primera says, "their sad songs".

J.
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: jags on July 05, 2013, 11:22:48 PM
Thanks John the more i hear this guy the better i like him ,he has a beautifull air to his voice and a nice guitar player nothing fancy just solid playing.
i used to go to a great session every friday night but it got a bit out of hand ,we had too american musicans sit in with us one of the nights man they were good,   blues  guitar player and the other mouth organ really top class players , but i think they were kinda surprized how good we were 8) but yeah some great music that night great memorys indeed.
must try and get that album.
thanks again lads enjoyed ian's music.
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: Danneaux on July 05, 2013, 11:36:51 PM
Quote
...nerves with soon start to kick in.
Well, sure! I *always* leave with "butterflies", and value them for keeping me sharp and preventing me from doing something stoopid. They leave once I've been on the road a bit, but are still handy to avoid initial problems due to inattention.

Best,

Dan. (...who has been known to do Foolish Things in the past when the butterflies were absent or ignored)
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: jags on July 05, 2013, 11:53:28 PM
yeah the best of luck dan with your adventure tour really looking forward to taking a back seat on this one.night night. ;)
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: Danneaux on July 08, 2013, 05:24:48 AM
Hi All!

As a result of efforts both yesterday and today, I have made the decision to depart early on *Sunday* the 14th. Doing so will allow me to meet my full touring goals while solving a number of problems that came to light recently.

Here in the States, the Fourth of July Independence Day is the kickoff for most people's summer holidays, and the majority of those taking a summer vacation take at least two weeks starting then. The trouble this year is the holiday fell on a Thursday, which messed with the timing for combining the holiday with a weekend. As a result, there has been a mad scramble for parks and camping reservations and everything is still booked solid, from forest camps to private campgrounds.

Second, my planned escape route from Eugene was subject to a rockslide and considerable reconstruction efforts are being directed toward repairs, which would result in substantial delays for me. The preferred alternative is also out of the running -- the roads department is lowering the floor of the Salt Creek Tunnel midway on the route, and there are delays of as much as 10 hours at a time between openings, with traffic allowed through only by pilot car.

I spent yesterday in the car, pre-running another route through Quartzville, a former mining community in the mountains above Sweet Home, Oregon, that runs between Foster Dam and Greenpeter Reservoir. I'm glad I did pre-run it, as it was wholly unsuitable for my needs at this time. Seemingly the whole of the mid-Willamette Valley's population has fled to the area for fishing, camping, and general hanging out, with frequent supply runs to Sweet Home to replenish beer supplies. The result is the 1.5 lane forest service road has been reduced to .33 lanes, and the drivers are wobbling and weaving along through a mass of humanity in all its myriad forms, from unattended 2 year-old toddlers to seniors in take-along leather recliners and all the comforts of home in everything from million-dollar motorhomes to tarps strung along the road. I...don't know what they are doing for sanitary facilities, but from the smell, it seems convenience has carried the day over hygiene. Water is not the preferred drink, but is available from the river and reservoir...below the road (with obvious implications -- Eew).

Today's alternative is up the McKenzie River, and the clear winner among the options. I found an ideal first-night wild-camping site, and there are stores, water all along the way, and even cell-phone service right up to and in camp -- unusual for me, but most welcome. Best of all, that first day is only 72 miles/116km of relatively easy grades, a nice runup to the next day, which is going to have about 45 miles of 6-8% grades with no breaks accounting for just over half the distance. The next day will take me into the small town of Sisters and thence to the "wet" side of the Ochoco mountains for my third night's camp.

Waiting makes lots of sense. After I left Sisters today, I was stuck in bumper-to-bumper traffic for five miles on returning to town, crawling along at only 5mph/8kph. It was just late Sunday afternoon returning vacation traffic coming from Bend and the resort areas, and a good proxy for all that is going on at the moment. By going Sunday morning, I'll spend that first night in my own little camp, then proceed onward on a weekday just outside the 2-week vacation window when all the tourist traffic has cooled considerably.

Even better, the fires later in my route are coming under control, and it is expected another week or two should see them out. This is a nice relief, as the air quality in that area has been reported as chokingly bad with smoke, and this will give it time to clear.

So, though I am champing at the bit, it seems wise to defer again from mid-week to Sunday morning, a week hence. The bonus is, I picked up a short-term consultancy I can finish by Thursday or Friday to pad the trip coffers slightly.

Best,

Dan. (...who is hoping a delay now will mean none later and whose exploratory trip today makes him even more eager to be off and away)
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: Andybg on July 08, 2013, 08:27:00 AM
All sounds as though the plan is in hand and the count down is truly on. Fingers crossed for no more delays and looking forward to hearing all about the epic tour as it unfolds or will it be a full update at the end?

Andy
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: Danneaux on July 09, 2013, 10:07:03 PM
Quote
...the count down is truly on...
My, Andy, that describes it! Always *so* much to do in the last remaining days before leaving, but things are still looking good for a Sunday morning departure.

I did find one thing worked really well on Sunday's scouting trip: The little keychain wifi-finder. It lived up to its 500ft/152m range, and displays signal strength in four green LEDs...or red for none at all. While it doesn't tell if the signal is open or security-enabled, it does show if there is one and where and how strong. It would be just the thing for quickly setting up outside a McDonald's and using the computer on the sidewalk in the strongest signal location so I wouldn't have to leave the bike alone.

Most fast-food chains and public libraries have open wifi, and this will at least avoid taking the netbook out and wandering around with it open and running, like a modern-day Diogenes of Sinope, in search of an honest man (See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diogenes_of_Sinope ). He lived in an earthen jar and ate onions, but didn't have to also deal with a loaded touring bike and trailer while searching, as I would. the wi-finder will help greatly.
Quote
Fingers crossed for no more delays
Thanks! Me, too!
Quote
...looking forward to hearing all about the epic tour as it unfolds or will it be a full update at the end?
As I can along the way, I'll upload the occasional photo and brief update. On my return, I intend to get a host, establish a website, and reproduce my on-trip blog by the day. A bit like the CGOAB accounts we've all read, but self-hosted so I can set it up and link it to or embed multimedia as I'd like. By taking the little netbook, I hope to type up each day's impressions and save it and the day's still and vidcam card-dumps in the same hard drive folder to make it all a bit easier to assemble when I get home. I'll be geotagging the photos and videos also, in hopes it will make later identification and location easier. I'll probably also do the occasional "bedside video chat" either on after arrival in camp or upon awakening in the morning. That worked pretty well in 2010.

This trip will see me free of battery-charging worries, thanks to the two dynohubs/chargers and the Joos Solar panel/accumulator battery, the last exceeding all USB charging expectations at present. It is a fuss-free, all-in-one charging solution that is small, dependable, and independent of my effort, so it will charge whether I am riding or not and can be used for charging at rest, in camp, or while I sleep. I am hoping the lot will do as well on the road. Having the equivalent of three bikes' charging capabilities while away from mains power means I can freely use my battery-powered gadgets without concern. The netbook will require more care, as its charging requirements exceed what my present equipment can replenish. Hopefully, the projected long battery life will see me through to the next mains charging outlet. The ability to (re)charge my gadgets reliably during *extended* periods away from mains power has been a dream of mine for many years. It all works in trials, so it will be terrific if it works in practice over the course of the tour.

During Sunday's scouting trip, I took the opportunity to locate a first night's wild camp and found a really nice one at the end of a stub road (see pic below, leading to my camp). It has it all: Cool, green, unused double-track leading past several car-barriers to open into a level meadow. It appears there might have once been a hunter's camp at the end, but deadfall and plant growth shows it hasn't been used in well over a year.

I'll still be online here till departure, so will update as things come together.

Thanks for the good wishes!

All the best,

Dan.
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: jags on July 09, 2013, 10:37:39 PM
best of luck Dan fingers crossed all goes well,the weather over here is fantastic at te moment we are having a HEAT WAVE  unbelievable,
i know you guys get much more severy weathere conditions than us ,so just be carefull how you stick that kinda heat is a mystery to me ,we had 28 deg here today same tomorrow  man it was hot.
anyway look forward to the ride report and loads of videos and photos. ;)
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: Danneaux on July 11, 2013, 05:24:00 AM
Hi All!

A couple photos from this evening's Extrawheel trailer load and packing trials to show you. These were taken on the banks of the Willamette River, accessible by bike path just a couple city blocks from my home. The fishing was good, as you can see from the riverboat in the background. Still 79F/26C as I type this at 9:20PM/21:20.

The Nomad rode very nicely, and I did my usual with panniers, tying these to the Extrawheel trailer with Fastex-buckled cinch straps so the bags, contents, and rack all behave as one solid unit when hitting bumps, potholes, or on rough roads. It really makes a positive difference in making the loaded bike -- any bike, I've found -- feel secure. It makes for a silent ride, too, as you never hear the contents rattling 'cos they're held limpetlike to the rack and second-order vibrations are quelled.

Best,

Dan.
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: Andybg on July 11, 2013, 06:46:51 AM
Looking good Dan. I am sure this tour is going to be a hive of experience and great testing for the rig.

Andy
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: sg37409 on July 11, 2013, 09:21:23 PM
Like the look of the road to your campsite. 

Your touring rig is immaculate; build and finish. For me though, I prefer to see a fully loaded solo bike.
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: jags on July 11, 2013, 09:52:27 PM
stick around  SG it will soon be loaded you can rest assured of that. ;D ;D
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: Danneaux on July 12, 2013, 03:46:53 AM
Quote
For me though, I prefer to see a fully loaded solo bike.
<nods> I agree; my preference as well. Yes, Steve, the bike will soon be loaded with pics to follow. In general, I much prefer riding without a trailer*, but one is necessary for this trip to better haul the extra 20l of water I need, and it will also be pressed into electrical charging duties to augment the bike's dyno-charging and solar panel with accumulator to keep up with the use load of three vidcams and a digicam as well as the other electronics like the cell phone, SteriPen UV water purifier, GPS, etc while spending extended time away from mains charging.

*Back to "trailering": I generally prefer the single unit of a loaded touring bicycle alone, as it is far easier to get into restrooms, over guardrails and fences, and portage in general, less likely to snag on sagebrush when riding cross-country in desert, and one less thing to watch or lock up when away. However, the trailer in this case distributes the load across three wheels total so there is less likelihood of sink-in on damp playa, and the bike itself is not so heavily laden when heavy water stores (20l+) are carried.

Frankly, I look at the all-up maximum loaded weight of the Nomad for the more remote parts of my tour and shake my head, wondering when the competency hearing will take place. At an expected 154lb/70kg gross maximum, we can take away the 45lb/20kg bike, the 12.7lb/5.8kg trailer, and the 58lb/26.5kg of water, and the net cargo weight is ~38.3lb/17.5kg including extended food stores, bag weights, electronics, cameras, clothing, stove and extended fuel stores, cookpots, tent, sleeping bag and pad plus clothing, rain gear, and spare shoes. It is the water stores that will really kill me weight-wise, and will have me wishing desperately for a powered winch on the steeper 11-20% grades. Lacking that magical winch, I've got 36x17T Rohloff gearing and some knees I have to keep an eye on.

I'd think I've lost my mind, except the Miyata weighed 109lbs all-up on the last go and I did okay, though I wished for wider and more tires on the damp playa that held the sinking bike upright all by itself near the dry lake "shorelines". Though I won't be full-up at the start, Day Two will be a long one as I grind my way over the Cascades' Santiam Pass; there'll be no truly level ground the whole day.

I'm busy as a bee trying to get things wrapped up here before I go. A slight work delay and family responsibilities mean there is a possibility I might have to move liftoff from Sunday morning to Monday at dawn, but I'd rather be set and fully ready than leave in a half-baked rush. The delay from last week is proving to be all-good, as vacation traffic has tapered off after the Fourth holiday and campgrounds and services open up a bit. It will be hot, but not as dangerously torrid as it was a week ago, so that's in my favor as well.

If the timing is right as I pass through, I'd like to revisit and stay overnight on my Great-Uncle Harry's old homestead near Fort Rock, Oregon where he proved-up on his land claim from 1914-1919. His was a choice plot of land, as it included the community well. Keep that "prime real estate" descriptor in mind as you view the attached photos below. I don't know how he managed to hang on there as long as he did. In the second photo, you'll see Harry towed a trailer with his rides, too. ;) That's Fort Rock in the left-background of the first photo. See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fort_Rock

Best,

Dan.
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: jags on July 12, 2013, 09:47:37 AM
wow great photos there Dan ,makes you think how on earth did they survive in country like that or are we seening the full picture.
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: Danneaux on July 12, 2013, 06:29:08 PM
Quote
...how on earth did they survive in country like that or are we seening the full picture.
Iduhnno, jags. People like Harry had a bail-out plan. In the "off" months when he wasn't required to be on-site proving-up his claim, he worked at his "other job", which was on a US Customs boat. He'd been in Alaska earlier. All that provided a cushion against failure others didn't have.

A lot of people were drawn to the area by East Coast land speculators who acquired the properties, then advertised them as cheap, prosperous farm lands in the country's newspapers. The descriptions were...generous, to say the least, and terribly deceptive at worst. In truth, there had been some unusually wet years in the late-1800s to early 1900s, but those were anomalies, and the climate soon returned to its usual aridity. Crops failed, wells dried, and endless streams of settlers and homesteaders had their hopes dashed. At one point, the immediate area around Ft. Rock, where Harry's cabin was, supported 1,200 residents. The last census showed 191 people living there now, and that's with the advantages of proper wells, roads, and electricity for the irrigation pumps. It is worth noting Harry returned to Oregon's coastal region after he proved-up on his high-desert claim. He took all his own photographs, then processed and printed them in his little cabin, using water drawn from the well. They are uniformly crisp and clear even now closing on a hundred years later.

The definitive book on the area's history is The Oregon Desert by E.R. Jackman (late professor at Oregon State University) and Reub Long (late rancher in the area). Excerpts are available free on GoogleBooks: http://books.google.com/books?id=U3ruodEof8MC&printsec=frontcover&source=gbs_atb#v=onepage&q&f=false ...and give a good flavor of the area even today.
-  -  -  -  -  -  -
Going nuts at this end, and I fear I may have to delay departure until Monday dawn instead of the planned Sunday morning. It is nothing major causing the delays, but all the little things aggregating. Nothing fatal to the trip, more like being nibbled to death by ducks. For example, I will take compass and paper maps to backup the GPS, as I know the Calapooya Mountains will block a clear satellite signal. The BLM/Forest Service maps are treated with some sort of wax, and although everything seemed fine when I marked my routes with highlighter pens, I was shocked a few moments ago to find the ink is happily transferring onto everything else *but* the maps. I'm typing this with pink and yellow and blue fingers and it won't come off, even with mechanic's pumice soap. The store that had the "proper" pens at USD$7 each (which I was too chea-- er, "careful" to purchase a week ago) doesn't open till Noon and it is now 10. I was up till 3:30 this morning and again since 6:30, trying to get things done and the work I casually accepted wrapped up by today. Having tried re-marking the maps on the floor, Nearsighted Dan took off his eyeglasses to make the task easier...then couldn't see well enough to find them back again for awhile (I'd placed them atop the fireplace mantle so I wouldn't step on them). Some of the food I bought at the discount grocer's on closer examination by date code and tasting turned out to be well-expired and stale/dead (Eww!) and will need replacement before I leave. And so on.

All part of life's rich pageantry.

On the other hand, the Nomad is running like a fine watch. I've packed all Andy Blance's recommended spares so I will be prepared in any event should something go unexpectedly pear-shaped with the Rohloff (remembering the 7Ps of preparedness: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/7_Ps_(military_adage) ); all seems well otherwise.

Onward!

Best,

Dan.
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: Danneaux on July 14, 2013, 02:51:21 AM
Hi All!

Quick post, hoping this might help those thinking of touring where I will be with the Nomad, in extremely rural Central and Eastern Oregon, near the Idaho and Nevada borders --

Got a Verizon 4G LTE USB-chargeable* mobile hotspot today, and plan to tether the netbook to it to allow 'Net access anywhere I can get a 4G, 3G, or EVDO signal, depending. Verizon 'cos they're the network with greatest tower build-out and coverage in Oregon's rural areas, about 3x the coverage of Sprint, T-Mobile, AT&T in those areas. Really? We'll see. I wish it had provision for attaching an external antenna to boost reception in marginal areas.

It is the MiFi 5510L, apparently made by Novatel, reviewed reasonably well here:
http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2415262,00.asp
http://www.laptopmag.com/review/wifi/verizon-jetpack-4g-lte-mobile-hotspot-mifi-5510l.aspx

If all goes well, it should work pretty well for "light data" tasks like checking email, general web-browsing, and checking the Thorn Cycling Forum, and might help those who purchased less expensive, wifi-only tablets, iPads, and such as well as netbook/notebook/laptop users.

*As for charging, it is supplied with a 0.8A/800mA mains charger or requires a USB 3.0 computer charging port else charging times will be longer from 5vdc @ 0.5A/500mA but should charge okay from the dyno-chargers or the Joos Solar panel and accumulator battery. Battery life is rated for 8 hours, but some testers gt close to double that. When wifi is available, I will use that to save my data bits.

Best,

Dan.
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: jags on July 14, 2013, 10:42:28 AM
Well Dan D day has arrieved are all systems a go. 8)
best of irish luck  for your tour be carefull out there and keep us all in the picture.

cheers
 jags.
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: Slammin Sammy on July 14, 2013, 06:04:14 PM
Well Dan D day has arrieved are all systems a go. 8)
best of irish luck  for your tour be carefull out there and keep us all in the picture.

Ditto from Oz, Dan. Godspeed (and a following wind) for a fun and hassle-free tour.

Sam
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: Donnydid on July 14, 2013, 07:02:51 PM
Hi Dan

Have a great trip, looking forward to seeing your photo's and vids!

Dave
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: Matt2matt2002 on July 14, 2013, 10:56:33 PM
Looking forward to receiving your first report from the road.
God speed my friend
Matthew
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: Danneaux on July 15, 2013, 07:49:21 AM
Hi All!

Thanks so much for the good wishes, Fellows; they didn't go amiss and are very much appreciated.

I spent pretty much all day today glued to the computer weather reports, making inquiries in the areas I would be riding, and checking NOAA, and things do not look safe for me to embark on the trip I had planned. Temperatures are at record highs in populated areas and much higher in the open, unshaded desert.

The latest weather forecast has been upgraded to Lightning Activity Level 3, thunderstorms, hail, and 50mph winds with fires predicted. See: http://www.accuweather.com/en/us/halfway-or/97834/weather-warnings/2187695 Worse, the weather is predicted to be at or near 100F/38C for the next three weeks -- right when and where I would be: http://www.accuweather.com/en/us/halfway-or/97834/july-weather/2187695 Worse yet: The temperatures on the reflected east side of Steens Mountain in the Alvord are likely to be another 20-25F hotter. I know from experience I can make it alright three days in a row in air temperatures of 125F/ 52C with 6.5-10l fluid intake/day, but each day, my core becomes more dehydrated. I can't safely make it through the fourth day in the open with no shade in such low humidity, working as I would have to in the high heat and steep grades. Nighttime riding is a possibility, but then I wouldn't see what I came for, and the tent is insufficient shelter from the temperatures I'd deal with, being even hotter on the desert floor's surface. It would be as bad in the mountain canyons on the double-backed curves of FR-39 that comprises the core section of the Hells Canyon Overlook. If the woods close due to fire danger as predicted, I'd be over there with nowhere to go anyway.

I've got the time for a tour blocked out, and I'm not going to miss out on going *some*where, so I have decided to string together a series of shorter tours in more temperate climes.

I'll drop by the Bureau of Land Management district office early tomorrow morning and pick up a new map for the Coast Range with current township, range, section, and spur road numbers. Goal for Tour 1 will be to leave Eugene to cross deep into the Coast Range and spend two nights there, bisecting Cannibal Mountain before dropping down to Five Rivers, then following the Yachats River to Yachats on the mid-Oregon coast and stay in the little cabin owned by my family before touring down the coast to the town of Reedsport, where I'll follow the Smith River upstream to Wolf Creek Pass, then on home to Eugene once again and then ready myself for the next tour to the Calapooya Mountains and lower Cascades. It was 28F cooler in Yachats today than it was in Eugene, where it hit 92F/33C.

I plan my trips well in advance with great care, and you can imagine my disappointment at deferring this one to a future date. This evening, I called a friend of 36 years who offered to standby in the event of an emergency, and learned he and his wife were so concerned about the temperatures, they'd planned to surprise me by following my route and meeting me at one of my stops with cold drinks and some treats -- a thoughtful gesture beyond what I could have imagined or hoped for. They were on the verge of calling me to reconsider the trip and were much relieved at my change of plans.

Well...I'll still get a tour; a nice one with a couple more to follow, and will be off within another day or two. My goal is to avoid knowingly putting myself or others in danger when pursuing my fun. A key part of Extreme Touring is being Extremely Responsible and this is the right action for these circumstances. If it cools sufficiently and there's time before the Fall rains turn the playa to pudding, I have my route all ready and planned and can go then if I can juggle some scheduled commitments.

Disappointed though I am, this will give me a chance to really test and sort out the bike and equipment in hard touring conditions and then address any shortcomings in a reasonable timeframe. Much is new for this year: Bike and drivetrain, power-generating trailer and the bags for it, the sleeping bag, tent (for bike tours), pad, netbook, portable 4G LTE hotspot, solar panel and accumulator, and so on. If adjustments are needed, they can be made easily before going off on the next tour deep into the Calapooya mountains, perhaps with a side trip to Crater Lake National Park, which is always pretty at any time of year.

So, thanks for your kind words and thoughts; they'll be just as good for the adjusted tour in the opposite direction.

All the best,

Dan. (...who today was reminded that discretion really is the better part of valor. It is good to be brave, but it is also good to be careful.; If you are careful, you will not get into situations that require you to be brave)
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: Andybg on July 15, 2013, 08:47:40 AM
Hi Dan

I think you have made a very wise if saddening decision. We at the Evers family were waiting with baited breath for the ongoing updates of progress. I sometimes find the routes least planned end up being the most rewarding and the most intersting and I am sure this one that got away will be firmly in the crosshairs for another time.

Andy
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: jags on July 15, 2013, 01:34:06 PM
better safe than sorry Dan, you can still enjoy a few shorter tours.
that sure is crazy weather glad you seen the light. ;)
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: JimK on July 15, 2013, 02:25:09 PM
There is so much beautiful countryside where you are! Enjoy the exploration! Definitely smart to watch conditions and adjust plans! Maybe it will turn out serendipitous and you'll discover some gem of a new cycling territory!
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: geocycle on July 15, 2013, 07:22:01 PM
Sounds like a wise decision. I'm currently in Vermont where temp and humidity are in the 90s. I had been about to hire a bike as its great cycling country but instead I'm by the pool with the family. Enjoy your plan B, sometimes spontaneous trips are the best.
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: Danneaux on July 15, 2013, 07:36:49 PM
Thanks Jags, Jim, Geo', Andy, Matt, Dave, and Sam, and All!

I'm feeling much better about my decision after a disappointing evening. This/these tours will be lovely substitutes through some gorgeous, deep forest and then along some very pretty coastal scenery before ducking back inland again riding alongside the beautiful Smith River. As a bonus, that river has scoured out some shallow pools and depressions, and one can simply leave the roadway, scramble down a little bank and choose the pool/temperature you wish to soak in for awhile if the day is feeling warm. This will re-create the first bike tour I took with my father many years ago, so happy memories will be triggered the whole way.

Geo', do take care; humidity + heat can be a wholly enervating combination! I never realized that till I lived for a year in Mississippi and thought I'd melt; didn't really feel like doing any cycling there on the hotter days of summer. Given that, poolside with family is awfully hard to beat!

All the best,

Dan. (...who is off -- with a spring in his step -- to the BLM office to get those maps showing the Coast Range forest-access and logging roads)
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: JimK on July 15, 2013, 08:45:56 PM
Hey Geo - Vermont is not far from the Catskills! If you want a side trip, biking or hiking, I can show you some pretty country!
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: Donnydid on July 15, 2013, 09:13:32 PM
Hi Dan

Sorry to hear your plans have changed due to the weather, it really is some crazy weather
your getting over there but you will get the opportunity later to follow your plans.
Your substitute plans sound exciting to me so I will be looking forward to reading your trip
reports and looking forward to seeing your photo's.

Take care and enjoy your trip!

Dave
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: geocycle on July 15, 2013, 09:24:07 PM
Hey Geo - Vermont is not far from the Catskills! If you want a side trip, biking or hiking, I can show you some pretty country!
Would love to, but this is a family trip so I'm having to keep my cycling in check! I'm completely blown away by Vermont even in a heat wave. This is also my first time to New England. Ill be definitely back with a bike at some point.
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: JimK on July 15, 2013, 09:32:54 PM
I'm completely blown away by Vermont even in a heat wave. This is also my first time to New England.

Lots of beautiful country about, that's for sure! Glad you can enjoy it with family!
 
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: jags on July 15, 2013, 09:50:25 PM
two guys from my town are just finishing off there charity tour across America in Dan back yard as we speak ,well Oregon there having a ball blown away by the scenery and more over i think the  generous nature of Americans.they used warm showers for the intire tour. 8)
http://daveandgerrystransamcharitycycle.wordpress.com/
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: JimK on July 15, 2013, 10:01:58 PM
Funny the scale of things. Here on the east coast, New York and Pennsylvania are good sized states. Oregon is about as big as New York and Pennsylvania combined! A whole lot of space out there!

Of course, a lot of it is that forbidding desert that Dan is so wise to avoid during a heat wave!
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: jags on July 15, 2013, 10:29:14 PM
just added a  link jim some nice short videos the guy with the camera is gerry he's seems to be loving it all first tour as well. ;) other guy is dave english man but lives here in town a good many years very strong cyclist.
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: George Hetrick on July 16, 2013, 05:37:26 AM
Dan, I aborted my Oregon Coast tour after I went hypothermic in 50 weather with driving rain, and, of course, Oregon hills (thus, sweaty sweaty followed by long downhill).

Back in my 30's, I would have continued, and probably wound up in the ER, because stressing your body that thoroughly is dumb. It's disappointing to not meet plans, but much better than harming yourself.

Enjoy the series of mini-tours!
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: Danneaux on July 16, 2013, 08:21:24 AM
Thanks so much, George; very wise words indeed. I'm so very sorry you needed to abort your Oregon Coast trip...but it was because you needed to abort, and were smart enough to do so! You were ever so wise, especially in those circumstances. A person can get so core-chilled in those conditions that after a certain point, it really isn't recoverable without medical intervention if one is so fortunate. I have seen it happen over and over since I was a kid, when my family spent time at our little vacation cabin in Yachats. The weather can change so quickly and catch one out even if well prepared and in the middle of summer. Though it is now mid-July with sunny forecasts ahead, I'm taking my full rain gear, fleece jacket and balaclava, gloves, booties, and winter-weight wind-faced tights with me

Yes, without question, it is better to know when to call it a day and come back another time when conditions are more favorable. Recently, I saw the results in yet another person who climbed Mt Hood and perished in the attempt. The problem, in part, is the mountain's ready accessibility to both major population centers like Portland and to the parking lot, which dumps directly into the summit trail system. People hear about it or go skiing there and think it'd be great to climb. They can literally start climbing from their cars, and it seems many more are doing so unprepared and paying the sad consequence by being unready or unwilling to return and go again another time. Even experienced climbers can get caught out, as in the case of last week's fatality.

I'll be packing a little differently for this trip, so right now the bags are open and emptied in the living room as I sort through them and adjust what I'll be taking. I got my new maps today, and was so glad I did; the Forest Service and BLM road numbers have changed in the 31 years since I last did this particular route. It will be interesting to see the other changes that have taken place, and I'm hoping to see some animals as well. Last go, my father and I saw a cougar, many deer, and a Roosevelt elk in addition to the usual smaller animals. I really don't need the trailer for this trip, but view it as a golden opportunity to give it a go and see how it does, making adjustments along the way. I'm going to also try something new in terms of offloading and displaying my GPS tracks, and I can't wait to see if the computer will connect in the wilds, and I have the cameras to try, so this is a chance to play as much as anything. I'm really looking forward to it!

All the best,

Dan. (...who is grateful to have reached a point in life where good sense seems to prevail more often than not)
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: Relayer on July 16, 2013, 08:52:01 AM
Hi Dan

Sorry your big tour plan can't be done this time around, but you'll get there sometime. 

The important thing is that you get out touring, and whether it's one continuous or 2 or 3 consecutive shouldn't make too much difference - in fact beneficial if you want to test a few different setups out.

Enjoy your tour(s) Dan, you still have some awesome country over there to cycle tour through.

Jim
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: Danneaux on July 16, 2013, 06:26:06 PM
Hi All!

I just heard there is a very good chance one of our members will be passing through Eugene on Thursday morning for a meetup and coffee, so will delay departure that little bit longer till he can get here. Working out the details now.

Always nice to meet a fellow Thornist, especially one who has crossed most of a continent to get here.

Dan. (...more later, as things develop)
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: Danneaux on July 17, 2013, 12:49:57 AM
Hi All!

The inevitable photographs...

Best,

Dan. (...who is beginning to think he's lost his mind. The lot is not only as long as a freight train, it weighs about the same)
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: Danneaux on July 17, 2013, 12:51:41 AM
More.

Best,

Dan.
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: JimK on July 17, 2013, 02:16:37 AM
You're surely ready for a major expedition, with a set-up like that!

The world beckons!
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: Andybg on July 17, 2013, 06:38:07 AM
That is one professional looking set up you have there Dan. I know at the time you were favouring black ortieb panniers to go with your stealth look but to be honest I think the red with the black just looks right and I think all black may have just looked a bit too ominus.

I am looking forward to your findings on this first true setup test and I am sure you are setting the benchmark (a very high one at that) for future builds.

I think you may have moved from being able to call it an expedition bicycle to it being a true expedition vehicle.

Andy
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: Donnydid on July 17, 2013, 06:52:22 AM

Crikey! Thats a cracking set up!
You've really set the standard there Dan!
The red and black ortliebs look fantastic, I might just invest in them myself.
Have a great adventure!

Dave
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: ianshearin on July 17, 2013, 07:53:09 AM
Surely SJS should look at putting your bike on their marketing literature, it doesnt get any better.....

Have a great trip Dan
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: Matt2matt2002 on July 17, 2013, 08:35:13 AM
Hi Dan,
What a beast!
And good looking to boot.
Any idea of total weight as she stands before you step aboard?

Also, I am a snake fan. You mentioned the animals you hope to see. Will snakes be a problem in your area?

Matt
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: Danneaux on July 17, 2013, 07:38:53 PM
Hi All!

Thanks so much for the kind words; much appreciated, as I work largely in a vacuum as far as local cyclists go; no one seems to do these sorts of things and have little interest in my expeditionary setup or pursuits.

Yes, Andy, it is funny how things sometimes work out for the best. After wishing like anything I could have gotten the all-black Ortliebs, I went with the red-and-black ones because of some massive price reductions. The front SportPacker Plus bags were "only" USD$72 after a sale price, stacked coupons, and some cashed-in store dividends at REI. Regular price at the time was around USD$228, now USD$210 -- but only in the red-and-black combination! I like them now, too! I tried to tie-in little touches of red in the black on the bike so the lot would look more integrated (red silicone gripper bands on the bottles, red accents on the Blackburn B-52 Bomber cages, etc). I was at first a little disturbed the pattern atop the front pannier caps didn't match the rear, but Ortlieb tell me they made the change in response to user requests. Apparently the black tops really are easier on the eyes in terms of reduced reflection when mounted on low-riding racks. The handlebar bag is all-black 'cos that's the only color offered in the Ultimate V large, and it was on a big sale, too! It ties in nicely with the red and black elsewhere.
Quote
Any idea of total weight as she stands before you step aboard?
Matt, I know when it is fully loaded with the full 20l of water in the trailer, the lot comes in at a heady 70kg/154lb. I expect it to be less now, thanks to some different food choices (I have to go with canned when resupplying at rural stores) and only 6.5l of water in reserve. I have a dual-scale measurement rig so I can get absolute weight of each piece as well as weight distribution of the bike, bike and trailer, and each with and without my weight added. It makes it much easier to make packing decisions. I will weigh it this afternoon and give you an update.
Quote
Also, I am a snake fan. You mentioned the animals you hope to see. Will snakes be a problem in your area?
Matt, seeing and interacting with animals is one of the great joys of touring for me. I love how, when I first arrive at camp, the place seems dead. Pitch the tent, put the kettle on, and settle in for an hour or so, and the Welcoming Committee come 'round. The air comes alive with birdsong, and the little ground and bush-dwelling birds come right up to my feet. The bushes begin to wiggle with the smaller creatures like ground squirrels, porcupines, raccoon and 'possums, and they're all there to check out the new neighbor -- me! I do my best to be a good one, leaving the camp just as I found it...or better; if I find any trace of visitors before me, I remove their trash as well and fluff up the grass again after packing my tent. The goal is to leave the place as if I hadn't been there.

Among my animal friends are snakes, of course. The ones I encounter are essentially shy around people and have not been a problem. I like rattlesnakes, and will sometimes sense a presence at rest stops and look to my side to see one stretched out, basking in the sunshine on the warm roadway as close as a meter or two away. The most common ones I see are http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crotalus_oreganus ...and... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crotalus_oreganus_lutosus On a prior trip through the Sheldon National Wildlife Refuge ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sheldon_National_Wildlife_Refuge ) I stopped to explore the old, abandoned Director's cabin. Approaching on foot through bunchgrass and sage, I heard many sizzles from rattlesnakes. I just stopped when I heard them, located where they were, and altered my course. I appreciate their saying, "Hey! I'm here! Don't carelessly step on me, Mr. Bigfoot, I don't want to get hurt!" My larger concern comes when riding cross-country through the sage and brush, when my greater speed on the bike might put me on a rattler before I could hear it. I don't want to harm one, and I don't want to be bitten. I also don't want any ehm, "snakebite" punctures!  :D

I also take care in the desert when "dirt-bagging" (sleeping in a bag on a pad without putting up the tent) to make sure I close the zipper at the foot to prevent a snake from seeking warmth and entering. I shake out my shoes in the morning to avoid jamming my foot into a scorpion's new home. In the "regular" forest of Oregon's Cascade and Calapooya mountain ranges, I am far more likely to encounter furry animals -- certainly deer and the occasional Roosevelt elk and sometimes a bear. Little bunnies and porcupines as well as golden-mantled ground squirrels are much more common and represent the greatest threat to my panniers in terms of gnawing holes when searching for food. I often see snakes sunning themselves on little-traveled gravel logging roads. If one seems sleepy and reluctant to move, then I'll stop a distance away, stamp the road a couple times with my foot, and they soon get the idea to lazily wander off into the brush.

I've attached a couple photos of snakes I've seen on recent trips. Next post, I'll show you the sort of cross-country terrain where I have to be more watchful of snakes to avoid running into/over them.

Best,

Dan.
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: Danneaux on July 17, 2013, 07:42:40 PM
More snake stuff for Matt...

Best,

Dan.
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: Danneaux on July 17, 2013, 07:44:39 PM
More for Matt...
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: Andybg on July 17, 2013, 08:33:27 PM
Have just shown Marina the pictures of your bike ready for your tour. She says the garden is looking much better and therefore it is ok to head off on your tour.

Andy

PS - she says the bike looks good too
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: Danneaux on July 17, 2013, 08:36:55 PM
Hahaha! Andy, Marina's comments made my day!  ;D

So glad she approves! (...and now you know the *real* reason for my delay in getting off; it was the garden's fault all along!  ;))

All the best to you both,

Dan. (...who is still annoyed the grass won't grow back where the sweet gum tree was removed and the stump ground-up; the chips left the soil too acid to support the lawn, and applications of lime haven't helped).
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: Andybg on July 17, 2013, 08:45:26 PM
She did make comment about the lawn but I thought better than to pass them on.

She is duly satisfied at your efforts at reabilitation.

Andy
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: sg37409 on July 17, 2013, 09:31:45 PM
Great pictures ! Snakes spook me, and despite having trekked around a fair chunk of africa I've seen more snakes in France that the whole of my tours in Africa. And they always scare me.   
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: Danneaux on July 17, 2013, 10:03:37 PM
Quote
Snakes spook me...
Well, Steve, I can understand that! I don't seek them out, but seem to run into them anyway from time to time. Compared to the little furry creatures we know, they're pretty alien -- no arms or legs, and no voice except to hiss or rattle. Some can bite, and all are more than a little unfamiliar to most people. I wouldn't go out of my way to choose one as a pet, nor do I try to handle them. I remind myself we're all out there together, and it has helped me to read and learn more about them. I was initially concerned they would be a problem to me while camping, riding, or walking, but so far they've been no problem whatsoever. I can now say I like them as fellow users of the outdoors.

'Still wouldn't want to share my sleeping bag with one. I came across a couple whose wakeup routine was...disrupted...when the wife found a snake in her sleeping bag. It had crawled in, seeking warmth on the cold night. Nothing "bad" happened (beyond finding the snake in the 'bag and shaking it out so it could just.go.away!), but the experience was!

Last Spring I was riding along the riverfront bike path near my home when I stopped to take a picture wile astride the bike. Out of nowhere, a normally harmless little red-striped garter snake about a centimeter in diameter rushed me, heading straight for my ankles with tiny mouth agape. I have no idea what got into him, but he was aggressive! Even knowing there was no real danger, I felt kinda frantic for a few moments as I tried to evade him without either stepping on him or rolling over him with the bike while stopped. Yeah, the little fellow scared me! Made me awfully glad the big ones seemingly have nothing to prove.

Best,

Dan. (...who thinks young animals of all species sometimes lack good judgement)
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: Danneaux on July 17, 2013, 11:01:18 PM
Weight, weight...wait!  :o

Hi All!

I just weighed my Nomad and Extrawheel trailer as they are now packed, using my double-scale weighing rig. It is a terribly difficult exercise to get right en masse, and I believe it is better to add the component pieces separately even though that incurs aggregation error. In any case, the bike seems to weigh 138lb/62.6kg and the trailer 45lb/20.4kg, all-up, provisioned, and wet for extended, self-supported solo desert touring away from resupply.

Whew. Whine. Whinge.

I need to talk to Andre and IanS about that powered front wheel option. Smart men, those two.

Best,

Dan. (...who now realizes "heavy metal" is not just a musical genre)
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: jags on July 17, 2013, 11:52:36 PM
wow Dan thats a lot of weight hope there not to many hills to climb but me thinks there is. ;D ;D
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: Danneaux on July 18, 2013, 01:01:29 AM
Hi jags!

Yes, there's an awful lot of very steep, graveled logging-road hills to climb, and a lot of bike and trailer to get up them. The climb to Alsea Falls is pretty much all 8% grades, and the one up toward Cannibal Mountain is a bit over 11%. Still, it will be a good test for what I could expect in Eastern Oregon when I go there another time. This shakedown tour is short enough and close enough to home that if something is unpleasant, I can make changes pretty easily. I can even leave stuff at the little beach cabin for collection another time, if needed.

I just got back from a test ride of the bike alone -- weighing 138lb/62.5kg with my own 175lb/79kg (dressed, shoes, helmet, and stuff in my pockets) weight atop it. I motored up the 6% grade of the Owosso Bike Bridge in Gear #7 with no problem. I dropped briefly to Gear 5, but shifted back to 7 again almost immediately. I went back for another go in Gear #1 to see how it would do. Worked fine, but slow as expected. I would be very grateful for it on steeper, longer slopes. Gearing overall was good on the bike-only loaded test run, and I love the shifter placement.

The bike was wholly stable and handled very well including the 25mph/40kph I hit going down the bridge. It felt like my rando/lighter touring bike when it carries a 39lb/17.7kg touring load including water. The only untoward thing I noticed was a very slight creak from the bottom bracket, so when I pen off here, I'll take off the lower bottle and check the torque on the eccentric bolts. When that's done, I'll head out with the trailer. I found the bike trundled along at 12-14mph/19-23kph on level ground with a slight headwind very happily, but soon found myself settling in at 15.6mph.

Pictures below are on Goodpasture Island, just over the Owosso Bike Bridge from my home. I took the photo on self-timer, clamping my camera to the fence that surrounds the multipurpose path between the fountains. Nearly got some action shots as I trotted 'round the fence in my cycling cleats and made it back just in time for the picture.

Best,

Dan.
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: Danneaux on July 22, 2013, 03:47:43 AM
Hi All!

I'm back unexpectedly early from my test-tour...but the Nomad isn't (yet, but will be fairly soon).

High adventure and a *very* worthwhile trip. Boy! Did I ever collect a lot of data to mull and consider!

More details as soon as I can take further care of things at this end and grab a night's sleep. I'm okay, by the way, and so is the Nomad (for the most part). He ran like a champ, and the Rohloff was flawless.

Best,

Dan. (...whose test-tour was largely parenthetical and extremely valuable going forward)
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: George Hetrick on July 22, 2013, 03:58:20 AM
It's great to hear you're fine. Looking forward to hearing more details ("for the most part")!
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: Andybg on July 22, 2013, 04:42:34 AM
Glad to hear you are back safe and sound and looking forward to the udate. All sounding a bit onimous and interesting

Cheers

Andy
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: jags on July 22, 2013, 12:09:16 PM
yeah what did he get up to ,whats with the nomad not returning i sure hope dan you had your video on record.
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: Danneaux on July 22, 2013, 05:34:00 PM
Hi All!

As mentioned, I'm back unexpectedly early from my test-tour. It was a valuable trip in terms of field testing resulting in a data "spew". The executive summary: The bike worked brilliantly as a whole, the trailer did not. I had to shortcut the bike ride and currently have the bike cached at my family's little cold-water beach cabin a hundred miles away, while I caught a ride home with the gear when friends unexpectedly dropped by. A good thing, too, as the Nomad has a broken rear mudguard and a crunchy bottom bracket.

-  -  -  -  -  -  -

For the full story, grab a cuppa and read on...

Here I was, feeling disappointed because my Big Oregon trip didn't come off as planned, when really I shoud have been grateful. Just last Thursday, a lightning-sparked wildfire jumped the highway and closed all of Highway 97 at one point -- and 97 is the big N-S highway though Central Oregon. Then, the next day, another fire closed Highway 126 just east of Sisters, where I would have been, and another was reported just this side of Mitchell, which would have left me in a fix, sitting between the two without access to services. Trouble is, the tour would have taken place with largely untested equipment and the outcome likely wouldn't have been as good as it is.

As mentioned, I say this test-tour as a way to fully outfit the bike and trailer as I would for a big expedition -- and then test them both on Oregon's Coast Range logging roads in pretty severe conditions. There was dirt, heavy rock ballast, a lot of gravel, some cross-country work, and all on steep climbs and falls with 8% to 13% grades. The loaded bike weighed 138 lbs (bare bike was 45lbs, so the net wet load was 93lb) and the loaded trailer weighed 45lbs (bare trailer weighs 12lbs, so the net wet load was 33lbs). Total weight of all rolling stock was 183lb. Kitted out for riding, I added another 174lbs.

That is a lot of weight, and it made itself known early when I found my initial average speed was only about 12.5mph on level ground.

It also made itself known on hills. Thanks to the 36x17 gearing, 5-6% grades were no problem, and I managed 8% alright. What really did me in was anything above 10%, and 13% was unridable; I just couldn't get enough initial boost to get off from rest, so at those times I had to push. It is amazing how many 10%+ grades I encountered, and I wound up pushing over 11 miles. In racing cleats. My initial plan was to see if the Nomad and I could handle that much weight on fairly level desert when carrying massive amounts of water and food, and trying the lot on hills told me just what I could expect there as well as my average speed (not much compared to my usual).

EQUIPMENT

Some things worked really well...

The Nomad itself. It handled like a champ, and I really can't think of any other bike that could have handled this much weight in these conditions as well. It was nicely maneuverable at low speeds, stable at higher speeds, and picked its was along very nicely.

The 44cm drop handlebars worked very nicely with a full front load of panniers and handlebar bag on very bad roads. No problem with steering or feeling as if I couldn't control the load and it never felt as if it could wrest the handlebars from my grasp.

The Rohloff was brilliant. It *never* missed a shift and just kept whirring along. I used gear #1 a lot...most of the off-road work was down in Gears 1-7. My *impression* is the cranks don't come around quite as fast in my 15" low as they did on Sherpa's derailleur-geared 16" low, but I haven't worked out the reason why if the gears are essentially the same. At any rate, it is easier to catch the off pedal and mount it as it comes 'round, and this was much appreciated with my racing cleats, toe clips, and straps.

The charging systems on bike, trailer, and solar panel worked wonderfully and exceeded all my expectations. Each worked as well as the other and I feel confident in each, though they all have their quirks and unique ways of working that have to be leveraged if maximum charging is to be extracted. For example, the solar panel should not be used during the day, when it needs uninterrupted sunlight to fully charge or top-off; it should be used to charge gadgets at night, in camp, so it can refill over the next day. Conversely, the dyno-chargers can't be operated at night, and so are at their best in daytime. The Tout Terrain The Plug2 Plus's PAT cord really does allow it to provide full charging power as low as 7.5mph, and I have learned that even if the green indicator light is blinking to indicate the load is too high, if one keeps it attached, at a certain point, the light will come on solid, indicating full charging. The e-Werk worked very nicely as well, but seemed to give full charging at a slightly higher speed, around 8.9mph.

The Ortlieb panniers worked fine, and I'm really glad I equipped them with extra lower stabilizer fins and my usual compression straps to tie them and their loads solidly to the racks.

The Duremes did reasonably well on everything, including heavy shale ballast that sounded like shards of broken gass when I rode across it. Though the sidewalls are relatively fragile, I used reasonable care an had no problems and no flats. I followed Andy Blances recommendations in the Nomad brochure ( http://www.sjscycles.com/thornpdf/ThornRavenNomadBroHiRes.pdf pg.6) and set the pressures at 52psi front/60psi rear and found these provided the ideal measure of support while still being comfortable. Speaking of tire pressure, the Nomad is really a different bike wrt tire pressure loaded and unladen. When riding unloaded, such high pressures were extremely uncomfortable, but dropping to 29psi front/36psi rear made it feel like 53psi/60psi with a heavy load -- compliant, sure-footed, and comfortable.

The Picaridin-based insect repellent was brilliant. I ran into heavy mosquito populations as well as deer flies, and both hovered in clouds about my face but either didn't land or didn't stay to bite if they did touch down. They seemed confused. The smell was pleasant, it wasn't greasy, and no worries about damage to plastics.

The sun-protective clothing (buff on my head, sun-protective jersey) worked great for sun protection, but were hot and didn't breathe well. These are natural results when the fabric is woven tightly. I found riding with the jersey fully unzipped helped make it bearable in the hottest weather but of course compromised the sun protection. The new Coppertone UltraGuard SPF 70+ Broad Spectrum suncreen I put on my legs worked well also; it was effective and non-greasy after application. The powdered titanium dioxide and micronized zinc oxide did well on my nose, and the micronized zinc oxide lip balm kept my lips from burning. I'm getting a handle on the sun issues for desert riding.
 
Temps ranged from 45F at night to as much as 97F in the box canyons in the late afternoon. I went through a lot of water -- 6 liters by the time I made camp the first night and 1.5 liters after. I was able to stop at some wall seeps and small waterfalls and SteriPen some clear, fresh water that tasted wonderful and was tooth-achingly cold. The SteriPen Classic worked lwell, and purified 1 liter in only 90 seconds with no chemicals or taste added to the water and with no filter to clog or change. I was happy with its performance, but had chlorinated pills on hand as a backup in case something went wrong with the SteriPen.

Some things did not work so well for me in this trial...

Chief among these was the Extrawheel trailer -- for my bike and use in these conditions. So, what was the problem?

     The trailer didn't always track true, and would develop...not really a shimmy, but an oscillation that would become worse with each swing, both in frequency and amplitude. It was very strange and I could never pin down the reason except to say it always occurred on pavement. For example, there were times when it tracked straight as a die at 33mph (but not always), but would oscillate like mad at only 10mph (but not always). It happened consistently whenever I posted (stood up on the pedals), so I didn't, which made descents much less comfortable. I couldn't pin it down to road surface or speed, and it happened when pedaling or coasting. My usual fast, light cadence did aggravate it, but it woud also go into these oscillations when coasting and posting, so that wasn't always a factor. Low tire pressure seemed to be a factor. I started out at 22psi and pumping it up to 60psi seemed to initiallyresult in less squirm at the tire contact patch, but in the end made no real difference. It was a tremendous disappointment and had very much the effect of the tail wagging the dog. I didn't notice any shimmy on dirt, gravel, grass, and such, because I think the loose surface acts as a lubricant of sorts and allows side-slip at the tire's contact patch. On pavement, the lateral mechanical connection with the road is much more robust, and I think this allows the lateral oscillations to be transferred to the connecting fork and then to the bike's rear dropouts, where the q/r hitches attach.

     The trailer doesn't seem to offer any noticeable difference in rolling resistance on smooth pavement, but it surely seems to have a retarding effect going uphill or down in gravel and on really rough roads. Yes, the larger wheel is less likely to fall into ruts than the 16" wheels commonly used on "sled-type" trailers, but it still has to go over bumps and holes. To me, the effect was like I was dragging half a second bike through or over whatever obstacle I encountered. I'm sure all this was exacerbated by the 45lb load it carried, but it is rated to manage as much as the low 70-pound range.

     Where I ran into real problems off-road was when the trailer went airborne and lofted considerably on fast descents or when the "break" between bike and trailer formed a "V" with the trailer's tire resting on ground substantially higher than the bike's rear tire (easing across a shallow ditch from a campsite to the road, for example). When the trailer wheel gains too much altitude the attachment fork fouls the mudguard stay nuts and I was dismayed to find my rear mudguard has fractured almost completely in two a little ways from the stay attachment bridge. This will mean a new mudguard pair to replace as well as my custom-cut black Scotchlite mottos and a complete taillight rewiring job and mudguard re-drilling, so it was an expensive lesson for me.

I think if one wanted to go tour-camping with a 'guardless mountain bike, the Extrawheel trailer would be a brilliant alternative to pannier racks. Without mudguards on the bike, the trailer could fly and bounce unrestrained and the oscillation didn't seem to be a problem off-road.  Just goes to show the real value of field testing, as none of these issues were revealed in my intensive home testing.

I still need a way to haul my required water stores, and I could use the extra charging capacity. Having poured so much time, effort, and money into developing and electrifying the trailer for multi-modal charging, I don't want to discard it out of hand for my use, but I am presently at a loss to know how to correct the handling and clearance problems I experienced. I'll deal with the trailer in a bit more detail in a separate entry on that thread: http://www.thorncycles.co.uk/forums/index.php?topic=4953.0

My MSR Dromedary 10l bags smell and taste terrible almost to the point of rendering the water stored in them almost undrinkable. I understand others have experienced this with Ortlieb water bags as well. MSR say this is not present a health issue, but when I decanted the water, it looked like it contained soap suds. I live about .75 miles south of a water-treatment facility, and my water has considerable quantities of chlorine and now bromine as well. The chlorinated/brominated water is known to react with these linings, and I followed the recommendation to fill the bags with baking soda and very hot water, let stand overnight, then decant and rinse, filling with clear water and allowing to dry. This worked initially, but when I took care to fill that Dromedary and another (virgin) example only with distilled bottled water, the "chemical" smell and taste became evident after only a few hours. I understnd the MSR Platypus water bags have no such taste/odor issues, but they are not as robust as the Dromedaries or the Ortlieb versions. This is a problem I need to resolve, as water stores are critical to my desert tours.

While the Ortlieb panniers worked fine, the handlebar bag really needs to be tilted up another 5-10 degrees. The bag attaches to its mount at the rear of the support frame, and this allows the bag to bounce vertically. On really big bumps, it was enough to whack the headlight and point it downward so aim was spoiled. I think a simple cable adjustment will do the trick.

My little security alarm died, as did another I purchased. It seems the voice coil seizes and then it doesn't sound anymore. I will look into this further, as it provided a nice sense of security when it worked.

The area where I traveled has essentially no cellphone service. Verizon has easily the best coverage here, but there was nothing available from the time I entered the coast range until near the city limits of Waldport, on the Oregon Coast. That meant my 4G LTE hotspot wouldn't work either. The data bytes I purchased for it were only good for a week with no rollover and so were wasted on this trip. It worked great at home. Visiting owners of GSM phones be advised: Verizon is a CDMA network, incompatible with GSM. Forum member John Saxby advised me he had very limited use of his AT&T GSM phone west of the Missouri River and really limited use away from population centers in the rural West. I need to look into a sat-phone and its operating costs.

The external bearings on my Shimano Deore bottom bracket started to make "crunchy" noises, but with no discernible play. I have a Phil Wood replacement here at home, and didn't want to damage the integrated spindle if the bearings have indeed gone bad; better to swap out the BB than replace the lot.

The GoPro HD Hero2 camera does not take good/usable video when mounted rigidly to the bike when riding off-road. The vertical movement is greater than the frame rate can mask, and the result is called "jello" -- the result looks like a Salvador Dali painting, and even heavy post-processing doesn't put things right. The solution is to isolate the camera from vibration by wearing it on either a helmet mount or chect mount in those conditions. It would help to leave the camera out someplace where I can quickly grab it rather than digging in the panniers for it. Bears and other wildlife won't wait.

-  -  -  -  -  -  -  -
THE JOURNEY

I stopped in Alpine ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alpine,_Oregon ) on my way out of town. My Uncle Harvey had a farm there until he declined after his tractor flipped over on him at age 94 (he was legally blind at the time he operated it) and died a couple years later. His nephew still runs the place as a tree farm. While stopped at the city park, I met recently-retired Gary Weems, who maintains the city park single-handedly -- paying the water bill, mowing the grass, cleaning and repairing the restrooms, and he was measuring the picnic tables for new wood when I met him. A remarkable individual who just wanted to give back to the tiny community of 171 people where he had lived for 20 years.

I spent the first night on a logging road in the Coast Range. I quickly discarded my first choice in campsites, a skidder-loader landing midway down exposed ridge, because it was catabatic and would have proven cold in the night ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Katabatic_wind ). Instead, I retreated to what had been a pullout on the single-lane road and had a nice camp in the forest.

Given my slow speed with the weight in the hills, the trailer's handling and mudguard-whacking problems, and the crunchy bottom bracket, it seemed unwise to sign on for even more severe and remote roads. My planned route up East Buck Creek Road and FS Roads 58 and 54 were through slide-damaged areas and away from water sources. When I got to the Five Rivers intersection, I decided to bail out for Highway 34 to the Coast. Even in the name of Science, Danneaux is good for only so much, and pushing up more hills wasn't going to add to the data store.

I spent the second night at a public boat landing, far at the back of the park. There was a fire ring there, but beyond was a screen of brush and young trees, and behind that was a small meadow. In this ideal spot for for stealth camping, I set up the tent and was just unstuffing my sleeping bag when I heard a noise, looked up, and saw a guy whacking the brush with a large stick, near the firepits through the screen of trees and brush. We saw each other about the same time, introduced ourselves, and he said he was preparing the site where he met friends annually for a crawfish boil. He and his four friends were exceptionally nice and quiet neighbors who usually work 19-hour days doing this: http://www.crowdsupply.com/rigado/lumenplay

After arriving at the little Yachats cabin, I was surprised to hear a knock on the door and saw it was my longtime friend Mike and his wife Jan. They had been out visiting antique shops and -- on a whim -- thought they might catch me there. Their small van was partly full of antiques but still had room for everything but the Nomad. The plan is to drive the Honda back to get the Nomad today; the bike should fit inside the small hatchback if I fold the seats and remove the bike wheels.

In the course of riding, I surprised a yearling bear around a corner, saw a bobcat a hundred meters away, encountered a dozen or so deer, and had some pleasant chats with interesting people I met along the way. I got my last "new" bike in 1989 and my touring setup had remained stable for decades. This test-tour points out the value in vetting any and all new gear before embarking on a really long trip where repairs and resupplies are unavailable. In just three days and two nights, I got a wealth of data to make my setup more reliable and better suited to my needs. Good stuff and a little adventure between Friday and Sunday! I'll order a new set of mudguards from SJSC, but in the meantime, with a new Phil BB and duct tape on the broken mudguard, I should be back on the road shortly.

Best,

Dan.
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: Danneaux on July 22, 2013, 05:35:33 PM
More pics...
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: Danneaux on July 22, 2013, 05:37:19 PM
Again...
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: JimK on July 22, 2013, 06:07:56 PM
Thanks for the great report, Dan. A shakedown trip with new equipment in territory that isn't quite so risky - the value of such an incremental approach sure seems proven here! Just a good story without being life threatening!

Interesting to hear about your crunchy bottom bracket. I've sprayed silicone lube on all the joints I can find on my saddle, and tightened up the crank bolts. Still I have a regular clicking. Could be the pedals too. I maybe switch saddles just to be sure. But the fickle finger is starting to circle the bottom bracket. I only have about 7000 miles on my bike - seems rather early for bottom bracket trouble. What do I know, though?!

I've been out on some day hikes in the Catskills the last few weekends, with my partner's son and various other companions. We've been using Platypus 2 liter pouches to carry extra water. They don't seem super durable but so far so good, and the water seems to come out as tasty as it went in.

(http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r6/kukulaj/catskill%203500/Hunter%202013%2007%2021/IMG_1691t_zps4f7952bf.jpg)
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: jags on July 22, 2013, 06:25:44 PM
Great report Dan i suppose you would call that a shakedown tour for bigger tours up ahead.
Dan to be honest i would ditch that trailer  :o looking at the climbs you have to get over its just not worth killing yourself hauling all that gear .
but as Jim said what do i know but from where i'm sitting i would stick with a fully loaded nomad. ;)
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: Andybg on July 22, 2013, 06:56:30 PM
I am glad the outcome is not as disasterous as I had first feared when I saw your post this morning.

I would echo Jag's reccomendation of ditching the trailer - the bike you have could just about manage that full weight on its own and I always find with climbing a kg on the bike is less than half the effect of a kg on a trailer.

However if there is anyone that could iron out the niggles and make the system work - it would be you Dan.

Looking forward to seeing the future developments

Andy
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: Danneaux on July 23, 2013, 07:29:54 AM
Hi All!

Good news! The Nomad is back home again! He *just* fit inside the '89 Honda Civic Si with the back seats down, leaving room for a short-legged passenger. Had to remove the wheels, but the rest fit like a tailored suit with no damage to car or bike. Yay! Have to knock down a few projects here quickly, but should have the Phil BB in soon with photos of the installation to be posted.

<nods> Yes, Andy, and jags, if I can do the next tour with the bike alone, so much the better. I think the trailer handling might be improved, but that may end up being a nice winter project sitting in front of the fireplace. If I drop the trailer, I save not only its weight, but the weight of it's mounted panniers as well -- a quick weight reduction that should do wonders.

Jim, Platypus bladders look like the way going forward, but I may need to make durable over-sleeves for them. I'm investigating further.

More as I can manage it.

All the best,

Dan.
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: moodymac on July 23, 2013, 01:30:05 PM
Dan,

Would going to a 34 tooth chain gear, or 19 tooth sprocket gear be practical while towing the trailer?  I don't know much about granny gears; I guess you could go so low that you would just fall over no matter how fast you were pedaling.


Tom
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: lewis noble on July 23, 2013, 03:26:39 PM
Glad you are home safe and sound, Dan.

Interesting comments re B B bearings - hence your observations a week or two ago about re-chainsetting the Ripio I bought recently.  Mine started off feeling a little gritty, but then improved quickly - I put it down to chain bedding in, more lube I put on chain etc.

Lewis

Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: Danneaux on July 23, 2013, 04:41:07 PM
Quote
Would going to a 34 tooth chain gear, or 19 tooth sprocket gear be practical while towing the trailer?
Hi Tom!

You ask a very good short question I'll give a long answer to.

From an academic and rider's perspective, -- yes -- a further reduction would be helpful. Back in my low-geared derailleur days, I cobbled up my own low gearing using smallish chainrings as freewheel cogs and freewheel cogs as small chainrings. I found  12 gear-inch low (15x34T @ 27" wheels with half-step and custom derailleur cages) was perfectly ridable with my light, high cadence. Though my forward progress was as slow as walking, it was no bad thing. Loaded touring bikes make lousy wheelbarrows, and as I pushed the Nomad a total of 11mi/18km, I wondered how many pedal-shin-whacks were required to produce osteomyelitis. On the steeper 13% grades, just pushing on the handlebars wasn't enough, as it also pushed the front wheel sideways in gravel, so I pulled with one hand on the saddle's rear cantle plate while I steered with the other.

There are practical implications to such low gearing beyond the obvious.

For one, I'm running a Rohloff setup, and with my 26" wheels, I'm already at Rohloff's lowest recommendation for low ratios. It is not just a matter of staying inside warranty coverage, it is about reliability. Rohloff earlier left a sizable "margin" for reliability, but this margin has now been reduced with their revised ratios and I don't want to imperil reliability in the back-of-beyond, so 36x17T is as low as I'll go.
Also, 36x17T gives me "middle gears" just where I want them and in the exact-same progression as on my other (derailleur) touring bikes, so everything feels familiar to me with this setup; it simply caps my high gear at a realistic level and gives me a couple more low gears below my usual 700C-wheeled 19" low -- even slightly lower than the 16" low I enjoyed on Sherpa with a 44/32/22 x 13-36 setup.

The torque generated by ultra-low gearing really is surprisingly high. I used to machine and fit crushable alu spacers between my freewheels and hub lands else the freewheel bodies would distort the hub mounting face. Spoke windup is something else, and the surging torque loads don't help anything too much. Removing a freewheel torqued into position by such low gears is a real task. Even a sturdy bench-mounted vise didn't help much, and I frequently sheared at least one prong of a two-prong freewheel remover even using a tight q/r and molybdenum disulfide paste as a lubricant. I have no trouble thinking the Rohloff's nylon shear pins would do the same if geared too low, making a real mess while on-tour.

The other big issue that is always hanging Out There is forward speed and how it affects my food and water stores, day's distance, and tour segments. I usually make a pretty comfortable 15mph/24kph on fairly level ground when fully loaded. Cut that average speed by 33%, and I've got to add more food, water, and time-to-destination. It is a downward spiral. My philosophy has always been to go as fast as light as possible and build on that. Roughly 70mi/113km /day is a good and relaxed average for me in mixed terrain when fully loaded and ~100mi/161km is fine if it is reasonably flat. Steep stuff and gravel drives that average way down, and weight is the enemy. On this test-tour, I did about 42mi/68km and was beat (pushing in really steep terrain didn't help the average or me).

My usual plan would be to ride the bike alone and with far more reasonable loads. I much prefer the reduced weight and length, easier parking and backing, greater maneuverability, better handling, and higher speed of a bike sans trailer. On most tours, my cargo often falls around 40lbs/18kg to as much as 56lbs/25kg. For my 2010 desert tour, I carried 77lb/35kg.

This test-tour was really just that -- an exercise to take the bike as it sometimes is fully loaded when I have to haul massive amounts of water and supplies for some segments of my desert tours -- and see how "we" did on the flats, on hills, and on really rough roads: "For Science!" The bike did brilliantly. I had figured the trailer would mostly tag along on-tour unladen, then serve as a means to haul the 20l of water I sometimes need to carry as well as a bit of extra food. To my dismay, I found when the bike is already heavily burdened, adding even an unladen trailer still adds mass to be hauled uphill. My downhill speeds were severely limited by the trailer's unpredictable handling and the trailer weighed a lot even empty, resulted in increased effort for my use in those conditions, and added what felt like a half-bike more drag on really rough roads.

The valuable upshot of my little test-tour is to realize a trailer is not the panacea I was looking for. I need to tailor my water and cargo needs to the bike and it will take me a little while to figure out how best to do that. The sturdy Nomad weighs 12lb/5.4kg more than my Miyata 1000LT did, but is far easier to ride off-road, better handles greater loads, and the cushion provided by 2.0 tires is most welcome. I'm still processing what I've learned over the last several days, and will be trying some new things going forward. Good thinking, Tom; ideas and suggestions are always welcome!

Best,

Dan.
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: Danneaux on July 23, 2013, 06:08:13 PM
Quote
Interesting comments re B B bearings - hence your observations a week or two ago about re-chainsetting the Ripio I bought recently.  Mine started off feeling a little gritty, but then improved quickly - I put it down to chain bedding in, more lube I put on chain etc.
Hi Lewis!

Thanks so much for the good wishes, and I'm glad your new gearing setup is settling-in well. It can take a little while for the new parts to mesh and then everything quietens down nicely.

With regard to my BB bearings...while I love the design and engineering behind 2-piece cranks, they have often been let down by poor bearing execution. Often, there is not a full complement of bearings in the cups, lubrication is a bit thin, and seals may be poor. Aluminum bearing cases distort a bit under load and make things worse. While it is possible to press out the original sealed bearings and replace them with better, often these replacements lack the plastic bushings that ride on the spindle. These are really necessary in  this design to prevent corrosion between spindle and bearing. When I ordered my Deore HollowTech II, I figured I'd use the original bearings till they became problematic in my use and then replace them with a set from Phil Wood and call it done for awhile. We'll see how it goes. If those go bad, then I can always revert to a square-taper BB/crank design as on all my other bikes, though I'd like to stay with the 2-piece on the Nomad if I can.

Besides the struggle with the weight and trailer's handling, part of the reason why I parked the Nomad at Yachats (say it as YAW-hots) and didn't ride further is because I wanted to save the crank spindle if at all possible (it is attached to the right crankarm). I've seen cases where the external bearings seized and pedaling further quickly scarred the spindle to the point where the bearings could not be removed or the spindle/crank reused. Mine are likely not too bad, but since I have the spare Phil on hand, why risk it? For example, after returning from a sometimes rainy Rotterdam-Santiago round trip, my Dutch touring pal wrote...
Quote
Since you intend to stick with Hollowtech II, you may want to check carefully for play and as soon as you discover the least bit of it, stop riding and replace your bearings immediately. If you have to ride another 150 kms or so, like me, the bearing will eat into the axle and it becomes pretty much impossible to remove the damaged axle from the bearings. I ended up banging the right bearing straight out of its cup together with the axle. My bearings held out 14,000 kms, but I've heard of sets giving in before reaching 10,000 as well.
I have attached a photo he took of the carnage After. Other examples here: http://forums.mtbr.com/drivetrain-shifters-derailleurs-cranks/removing-xt-hollowtech-ii-cranks-594803-3.html#post6638303
http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/hollowtech-ii-axle-damage

Though it apparently wasn't a factor in these cases, excessive preload tension can quickly do in a set of Hollowtech crank bearings. It is just so easy to overtighten the little plastic tension cap, when all that is needed is simply very light finger pressure to dial out excessive play.

Iduhwanna dilute the Danneaux's Nomad thread too much with in-depth discussions of 2-piece vs 3-piece cranks better left to the Transmission Board ( http://www.thorncycles.co.uk/forums/index.php?board=8.0 ), but an interesting discussion of 2-piece vs 3-piece cranks can be found here:http://forum.ctc.org.uk/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=57475&sid=6c0dcb2ad4d358602e5d861de564786c

Best,

Dan.
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: Danneaux on July 23, 2013, 07:41:30 PM
Hi All!

Kindly meant warning to others who transport their bikes *in* cars...

Oh...Dearie Me (and a few other Phil Liggettisms, see: http://thrillercrew.lefora.com/2010/01/29/twenty-phil-liggettisms/ ).

I was so focused on getting the Nomad safely into the Honda, I neglected to check the water bottle stoppers. I moved one bottle from the floor to the side-well, never registering it was empty...but had been full when removed from the bike. I just checked the car and found nearly a full liter of water had drained onto the removable floor mat in the rear passenger footwell and then overflowed to the car's carpet...largely waterproof-backed but not completely. There's insulating "fluff" beneath that, and it is wet as well. This means the driver's seat has to be removed as well as the doorsills and the carpet elevated and backed by towels to dry it and prevent rust and mildew down the road.

Best get to it sharpish.

Sigh. Just as I was about to set to the task of replacing the Nomad's BB.

Best,

Dan. (...who is realizing another meaning to "water water everywhere, but not a drop to drink")
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: jags on July 23, 2013, 07:55:34 PM
great to hear even the mighty has an off day  ;D ;D
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: macspud on July 24, 2013, 12:45:44 PM
Shame about the trailer not working as smoothly as expected. Could the shimmy have been caused by the load being too far back, maybe worth trying to get more weight in front of the axle  ???
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: Danneaux on July 24, 2013, 06:18:42 PM
Quote
Shame about the trailer not working as smoothly as expected. Could the shimmy have been caused by the load being too far back, maybe worth trying to get more weight in front of the axle
Hi Mac!

Thanks for your excellent suggestions; I did my best to employ both before leaving and numerous times by the side of the road. Extrawheel recommend placing weight as low and far forward as possible, so I put my water bags in the bottom, then again standing vertically at the front. Same for the U-lock and for the netbook and charger. You'll notice in the photos, I gave up attaching anything to the trailer's own rack. Putting *any*thing up that high just made things worse, so weight placement is surely a factor to some degree. However, in the end nothing helped address the inconsistent handling. If it had only done it all the time, I might have been able to hone in on a solution. I lost count of the number of times I stopped, got off, locked up the brakes, deployed the Click-Stand, and knelt down by the trailer to check and adjust everything in hopes of a solution.

What was so baffling was the inconsistent nature of the trailer's handling woes. The trailer would be tracking along wonderfully one moment, then woggita-woggita-woggita, away it would go, oscillating in ever greater arcs (same frequency, increasing amplitude) till I did something (sat, posted, braked, accelerated, leaned, or stopped) or it just spontaneously quit misbehaving. Posting did always seem to bring it on, while sitting sometimes broke the cycle. It never did it on dirt or gravel (it flew upward there), but some paved surfaces were worse than others in terms of seeming to contribute to or cause the problem.

Back home, I've been looking closer at things and my leading candidate for core contributor to the problem is the quick-release hitch. The tolerances are just huge, and the quill can actually slip sideways in the end cap. The other cap's threads are very loose on the quill, there are perfectly smooth back-faces on the nut/head/hitch, and the q/r lever's tolerances are so sloppy there is never an over-center "stop" -- I had to stop myself a dozen times or so to reset the q/r 'cos the lever had rotated 'round to the inside (no stop) and was starting to foul the chain as it passed over the Rohloff cog. I have spoken to Extrawheel about this at length and they sent me two hand-selected replacements for my three "bad" q/r-hitches.  At any rate, the hitches are a huge weak point in my use and I think the problem is aggravated by the relatively low tightening torque required by the Rohloff hub. I think the trailer might well be fine with different q/r-hitches as indicated by the experiences of others, like our own Australian Pete (Il Padrone), who has had very little if any trouble with his Extrawheel and only noticed a slight oscillation on one smooth surface. However, another Forum member has contacted me with a handling experience nearly identical to my own on an earlier model that caused him to give up on it.

I did notice initially, when about to leave home, trailer tire pressure seemed to be a factor. I had an initial oscillation riding in front of my house while running only 1.5bar/22psi, so I raised it to 4.1bar/60psi and it seemed to away. This didn't work once out and away, however. I think the higher pressure reduced lateral scrub at the tire contact patch, and on dirt oscillation wasn't a problem, either. I was going generally slower, but the dirt allowed the trailer's tire contact patch to drift laterally and so it did not impart and transfer a moment-force to the rear of the bike. Otherwise, when on pavement, the effect of a trailer oscillation was very much like the tail wagging the dog. It felt as if a hand had reached out and was laterally pushing the bike side to side at the rear drops. The bike alone did fine with no handing problems of any sort when I tried briefly dropping the trailer and riding the same patch. Trouble is, I didn't want to abandon such an expensive project by the side of the road, so I persisted. Even so, I'm only good for so much such effort with the same inconsistent results, even in the name of Science.

I'd sure like to make it work after investing so much time, effort, and money into it, and the need for it remains. I classify it as a worthwhile experiment of great promise that so far has failed to pan out due to some issues I had not foreseen.

At any rate, the problem of the trailer lofting or pivoting upward enough to foul the mudguard stay attachments and break the 'guard is a stopper for me; those 'guards are expensive, and now I've got to order a replacement from SJSC (can't get the same model Stateside), drill it, rewire it, reattach all my electrical connectors and reapply the logos. SJSC say the SKS 'guards are virtually breakproof and I believe it, but not when hit repeatedly by a 20kg trailer. Looking at the heat-shrink tubing I sleeved onto the stays (to match the black bike), you can see where the trailer fork repeatedly impacted them, causing the breakage. The trailer "flies" when it hits an obstacle, and it also doesn't take much of a difference in slope between bike and trailer to produce the same result. That's the one issue I don't know how to resolve even if I get the trailer to handle consistently.

For use on dirt or gravel behind a mountain bike with no mudguards, I think the trailer might be ideal provided the q/r-hitch clearances can be tightened. For use on my Nomad or other touring bikes with mudguards on anything other than level, smooth pavement...no, 'cos of the fouling problem between trailer fork (tongue) and 'guard stay mounts.

When I get time to fully process my notes and data, I'll cover the trailer issues in more depth in the thread devoted solely to it http://www.thorncycles.co.uk/forums/index.php?topic=4953.0

Best,

Dan.
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: Danneaux on July 25, 2013, 03:02:56 AM
Hi All!

The Nomad's old Deore external bottom bracket is out and the new Phil Wood version is in (along with a black-anodized spacer instead of the plastic Shimano one. The job went very smoothly, and I slickered everything with anti-seize and Phil Wood grease before torguing the cups and arms in place.

The Phil unit is a jewel and looks like one with its mirror-polished stainless steel cups and o-ringed alu spacer. It has considerable heft compared to the Shimano. I didn't take the time to weigh each for comparison, but I'd guess the Phil weighs about 3x as much and well worth it for the added rigidity. It is silky smooth, nicely shielded and well greased.

The Shimano's left cup is still in pretty good shape, but the right cup "clicks" about every 1/16th turn, and it shows signs of lubrication loss.  Fortunately, I caught the problem before any damage was done to the spindle, which is swedged permanently to the right crankarm on these models (making it a 2-piece crank, along with the left arm).

Photos attached below.

I should be good for some time now.

Best,

Dan.
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: George Hetrick on July 25, 2013, 03:08:18 AM
I had not realized that Phil did outboard bottom brackets -- sweet!
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: Danneaux on July 25, 2013, 03:16:39 AM
Quote
I had not realized that Phil did outboard bottom brackets -- sweet!
Yes, it really is, George. I've owned several of their internal units over the last 30 years, and this one is the prettiest of all. I researched replacement external BBs so carefully, and the Phil units got the best long-term reviews on MTBR.com and elsewhere, enduring longer and requiring fewer replacements than the King units. it is so, so smooth. I hadn't realized the right crankarm is a couple grams heavier at the end until it pulled itself down by its own weight on the Phil BB.

I paid just over USD$100 with shipping early last Fall, figuring I'd need it sooner or later. The same model adjusts to fit either 68mm or 73mm wide bottom bracket shells or eccentrics. You just use spacers to set the cup width to your needs; the center tube is o-ring sealed and slides accordingly.

Best,

Dan.
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: Danneaux on July 25, 2013, 03:17:27 AM
Hi All!

For those who emailed me asking to see the Nomad towing the Extrawheel trailer while riding, see the photo attached below.

I'm wearing the sun-protective buff (tube of fabric on my head, folded into a beanie with protective neck tail) and sun-protective jersey. Neither was as breathable as a conventional jersey, but did surely stop me from getting sunburned.

Best,

Dan. (...who thinks well-stuffed rear pockets make any jersey look bad)
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: George Hetrick on July 25, 2013, 03:49:32 AM
Are those Detto Pietros? You are totally old-school, man. You make me feel modern  ;D

Of course, I wear EEE, so Italian shoes were right out for me -- had some British ones made from a foot tracing; I think they were Reynolds.
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: Danneaux on July 25, 2013, 04:01:22 AM
Quote
Are those Detto Pietros?
Yep! Article 74s in size 45. I bought out the remaining stock of a mom 'n' pop bike shop in Texas when they closed in...1990? These are single-bolt models; a decade before that, I had a couple double-bolt-cleated models. Old!
Quote
You are totally old-school, man. You make me feel modern
George...my job is to make everyone else feel modern!  :D I also bought up a lot of SunTour's Superbe Pro road quill pedals, plus a handful of their track cages and a MTB cage for the one pair that used a licensed version of WTB's GreaseGuard system. Superbe Pros are arguably the best road quill ever produced, with deep-groove Conrad cartridge bearings to locate the forged body on the cr-mo spindle and needle bearings at the point of highest load. Maybe even better then the legendary T/A pedals.
Quote
Of course, I wear EEE...
George, between us is one cyclist with average-width feet.  ;)

I don't dare switch to clipless with this many long-lived quill road pedals on hand!

Best,

Dan. (...who is sometimes regarded as a cycling anachronism but prefers the term "fashion-proof")
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: George Hetrick on July 25, 2013, 04:13:25 AM
These are single-bolt models; a decade before that, I had a couple double-bolt-cleated models. Old!
Dan. (...who is sometimes regarded as a cycling anachronism but prefers the term "fashion-proof")
What, not nail-on cleats? You're modern, after all  :D (remember riding without cleats to mark the soles, so you could mount the cleats? I always did that myself)
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: Danneaux on July 25, 2013, 04:58:25 AM
Quote
What, not nail-on cleats? You're modern, after all (remember riding without cleats to mark the soles, so you could mount the cleats? I always did that myself)
George! My long-lost Brother! Yes, I did that too...best way to get the angles right. I had Pavarin alu as well as nylon cleats, and a whole stack of T/A cleats, some with shoe-plates and those tiny little square-shanked nails that had to be clinched-over inside or -- Ouch! I think I had most of the ones on this page http://www.blackbirdsf.org/ta/pedals.html and I'll bet you did, too! Annnnnd...somewhere out in a box in the garage, I have some "walkable" leather touring cleats.

And -- you already guessed this, didn't you? -- all my bikes have toe clips and straps, and the straps on my second rando bike have the little hand-stitched leather bumpers on them. Ah, the great cycling names this brings to my roadie mind...Anquetil, Christophe, Alfreda Binda.

All the best,

Dan. (...who never minds a detour down cycling's Memory Lane -- properly attired, of course!)
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: George Hetrick on July 25, 2013, 05:24:09 AM
I went to modern pedal and shifting systems long ago, but have been slower to abandon square taper cranksets and threaded headsets.

But, once upon a time, I used those leather cleats on my Lyotard Marcel Berthet pedals attached to my TA Cyclotouriste half-step plus granny  :o

I remember biking from Boston down to the GEAR 77 rally and broke a pedal axle having to do the last 20 or so miles with one pedal. I went to the mobile bike shop at the rally, and the mechanic at first didn't want to sell me pedals, because he "didn't have anything nice enough". I had to point out that whatever he had was better than no pedal at all  :)
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: Znook on July 25, 2013, 12:01:13 PM
Dan, just gonna throw this one in the mix...

Do you reckon the trailer shake is down to the aerodynamics, eg as you're pedalling and therefore one leg goes up, the other down, the air flow is hitting the trailer pannier on the 'leg up' side, whilst the 'leg down' side it's acting as a shield. With this effect occurring maybe, at a certain point, this sets off the wiggle?

Robbie (who, at this moment in time, is on vacation in Walsingham, Norfolk having a well earned beer so could be talking a load of <insert appropriate word here>  ;D)
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: Danneaux on July 25, 2013, 06:59:55 PM
Quote
I remember biking from Boston down to the GEAR 77 rally and broke a pedal axle having to do the last 20 or so miles with one pedal...
What a story, George! 'Glad you came out alright with a replacement pedal of some kind. Those Berthet pedals were lovely things, though the cages would sometimes come un-riveted. There have been some occasionally very nice attempts at making some spiritual successors, usually with CNC'd alu bodies.
Quote
Do you reckon the trailer shake is down to the aerodynamics, eg as you're pedalling and therefore one leg goes up, the other down, the air flow is hitting the trailer pannier on the 'leg up' side, whilst the 'leg down' side it's acting as a shield. With this effect occurring maybe, at a certain point, this sets off the wiggle?
Now, that's an intriguing thought, Robbie; thanks! And no need to qualify the origins...I sometimes get my best ideas while taking a shower or soaking in the tub; good thoughts are sure to come with the well-earned beer as well!

I suppose it is possible, though the aerodynamic forces wouldn't be as great at, say, 10mph/16kph as they would be at higher speeds, and the manifestation was just so terribly random. It is true that single-wheel trailers can be more subject to crosswinds and the drafts of passing vehicles than are two-wheeled trailers. I still think the extremely loose tolerances on the q/r-hitches are a factor. I will contact Extrawheel with a full report, but they have already promised to send me a couple prototype q/r-hitches that are developing, so we'll see if that makes a difference. I don't want to risk another rear mudguard, however. That is a hazard I didn't foresee, but I think it could apply in any instance where the towing bike was equipped with conventional mudguards. The trailer really can bounce high on rough roads. Same thing happens when crawling from one side of a ditch to the other at very low speed; the trailer wheel goes up and the fork/tongue fouls the little nuts that secure the mudguards to the 'guard bridge.

The trailer is stable as can be in the video here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ap--Wdr1g8g I should film mine for comparison. At best, it looks just like that...except when it doesn't, in which case it whips side-to-side in ever widening arcs...till it doesn't.

It always bothers me when I can't get to the root cause of any anomaly. I might not be able to correct it, but just understanding it better would be a great help. All thoughts welcome; thanks, Robbie!

Best,

Dan. (...who really made a mess for himself by forgetting to close the 1l bottle stopper when transporting the Nomad in the Honda. Had to pull the entire car interior for drying in two days' sunshine and isn't done yet)
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: moodymac on July 26, 2013, 05:07:53 PM
Dan,

Thanks for the answers to the lower chain ring, sprocket question.  Your answers are never too long, just extremely informative.  I had forgotten about the warranty issues.  In the world I currently live in (I own and operate a class 8 tractor and semitrailer) I am constantly concerned with weights and torque.  And I had never given consideration as to what stresses could be put on a bike by pedal power!  (I had always thought of the stresses put on me!).

I am a retired police officer (since 1992) and have been in this (trucking) business ever since.  As a cop I commuted by bike most of the 21 years I served (almost unheard of back then), and made a lot of day tours on off days.  This and a weight lifting/running program served to keep me in very good physical condition.  The last twenty some years (I am 65) are a different story!  In this business "if the wheels are not turning:  your not earning" could not be truer.  This and a lack of motivation has resulted in 265 pounds of blubbering mass. (I was 195 in peak condition).  My muscle mass is almost shot, the only real strength is in the arms and chest (from the steering wheel).  Legs, back and most of torso are all weak.  The only good thing is that the structure is still sound.  I have chosen the bicycle and hiking as a way to keep me from an early grave.  I will purchase a bike, use it at home, and mount it on the truck to use in many interesting places that I travel.

In an attempt to keep on subject, I would like to commend the thorn forum.  There has never been a day that something new and interesting has not been learned.  From yourself, Andre, Jim K, Andybg, Pete, Jags (who if we ever met I am sure would become great friends [great minds and all that] I have obtained a wealth of knowledge.  I have left a lot of people out (memory).

Sorry to get back with you so late, but am en route with a load (Springhill, NS, CA to Fort Worth, TX, US).


Tom
.
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: jags on July 26, 2013, 05:26:06 PM
HI TOM i'm sitting her trying to build a picture of you in my mind,i done a charity run 2 sundays ago i hit the front of a fast moving group and stayed at the front for maybe 10 miles, but the guy that was pushing things along was a feckin Giant of a man in his late 50's.i knew a lot of guys in that group were thinking ah he wont last long up  he's to much weight on him ,yeah right he soon burned off a lot of young dudes in that group.
anyway point i'm trying to make your only as young as you feel as long as you keep the legs turning all is right with the world.
btw why are you not retired i know the guards here (POLICE) retire at 57 on a great pension.
anyway i'm rambling again i'm good at that. keep trucking Tom post a few photos buddy. ;)
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: Danneaux on July 26, 2013, 06:08:55 PM
Fascinating story, Tom, with some parallels in my own family, so a little digression.

In high school, I wanted to be a police officer. Later, I ended up teaching them public administration so they could advance through the administrative ranks in their departments.

My Uncle Keith always drove truck, first heating-oil deliveries, then hauling syrup for Coca-Cola before making longer runs for a regional subsidiary of EXXON through a four-state area. He frequently packed a bike on a rack behind his sleeper cab so he'd have a way to work the kinks out of his legs at rest stops and to go in to the truck-stop store when parked on the fringes of their sometimes very large lots (like at the Little America stops). He found it was the constant sitting while driving combined with road food that took his physical conditioning and the bike is what pulled him out of it.

My father took early retirement at age 63 after 30 years in accounting/auditing, which meant he was deskbound for most of his career. On retirement, he wanted a pursuit that would take him outdoors, but without the shock of running. Looking at my interest in bikes, he got one and went touring with me. Our last tour together was a wilderness one, the week before his 74th birthday. He's 95 now, and the doctors think his present generally good health still reflects his earlier, post-retirement exercise. The point being, don't despair! Things may not feel as firmly in place as they once did, but the good news is how amazingly quickly one can become fit with even modest, moderate cycling whenever the opportunity presents itself. You're taking all the right steps to make it happen (again), Tom. That good structure will be the framework on which firm muscles redevelop. Age is with you, and you've not that far to go to get into "fighting trim" again, so all encouragement your way.

As for bicycle gearing and torque, I often think of my output like that of a little diesel -- high initial torque from rest, then a real narrow power band I can stay in by shifting through a myriad of gears (...and, I have been known to make "Brrrrt-brrrrt-brrrrt" noises as I start pedaling and shifting, to complete the effect). I really do find I deal with the same issues you do when trucking, trying to balance weights and torque. This last test-tour was a "heavy haul" and was much different from a "short hop" or "local delivery" in terms of my speed and the distance that allowed. There is a fine line between weight, speed, and the distance it allows. If I weren't so risk-averse in truly remote areas, I could probably go with a very light bike and load and make a good, consistent 125mi/200km day after day and do it with far less food and water carried, speed and distance making the difference. The analogy would be the ultralight through-hiker who "cleans" the Pacific Crest Trail compared to a more heavily-laden backpacker who might not have access to mail drops for resupply and so carries more of his own.

There's a real balance to be made between the two extremes, and I'd always done my past tours on road bike-based tourers with 700C (or earlier, 27") wheels and skinny, high-pressure tires. As I came to do truly self-supported solo tours in remote areas, the need for greater supplies and safety margins became apparent, and I moved to the Sherpa, then Nomad to support this very different "touring lifestyle". Going solo on such trips means going heavier, 'cos there's no one else along to split the load -- the entire weight of tent, stove, fuel, cookware, and tools are all hauled by just one person. To offset this heaviest sort of touring, I've assembled my "SOL Kit" for emergency use and casual overnighters (or even several nighters, provided I can resupply with food and water) that will get the job done (hot food, warm, dry place to sleep) using only my rear rack and a rack-pack for as little as 8lbs/3.6kg. Just a couple days ago, I upgraded the 29 year-old Blackburn alu rod racks on my blue rando/touring bike to Tubus Tara and Logo Evo so I can swap-on my Ortieb bags without the hassle of changing adapter shims. I won't be using a handlebar bag, just the four panniers, and the only rack-top load will be my one-person tent, sleeping bag, and pad carried inside the rear bags with rain gear and minimal clothing. The frame will carry a more modest 2.75l of water (compared to the Nomad's 6.5l), and I'll carry only my little 21g beer can penny stove and alu bowl set compared to my Coleman Peak 1 multi-fuel stove, a liter of fuel, and my carry box/cookset. The heavier stuff is actually more weight efficient considering the greater energy density of white gas or unleaded petrol compared to alcohol and longer time away from resupply, but in the short term and for fast-and-light, the ultralight kit has the edge, allowing me to cover far more ground in a day. The blue rando bike is perfectly happy touring with a maximum of 18kg, so now I will have both ends of the touring spectrum nicely covered.

In the end, it is horses for courses, and the Nomad surely is doing well at the heavy end of things while remaining usable at the upper end of the all-rounder spectrum. Ride quality/comfort is very much determined by tire pressure and volume, but all seems good with nice stable handling throughout. It takes awhile to really "learn" and trust a bike, and I feel I'm building a relationship with the Nomad by the day (and ride). Remember, this is my first bike of this sort/weight-carrying class, and my last new bike was an '89 model purchased in 1991. Before that, the latest was a purchase made in 1984. Except for the occasional frame I might hobby-build, the Nomad is likely to be  the last bike I will purchase outright for the next 20 years. I'm 53 now, and that would put me about where Dad (Jack) was when we took our last tour. Something new will come out by then and is sure to catch my eye.

Take care Out There, Tom; very nice to have you aboard as well. Each member contributes, whether with questions or answers, and we're all the richer for it.

Best,

Dan.
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: Danneaux on July 28, 2013, 10:06:04 PM
Hi All!

Wow! That last test-tour proved expensive. I just placed my order with SJS Cycles for a new pair of SKS P55 mudguards so I could replace the rear one fractured by the trailer hopping up repeatedly and catching the mudguard stay bolts till the 'guard broke.

Reasonable price for the 'guards, but being "Away" from the UK, international shipping ran to 40 and then I'm on the wrong side of the exchange rate with the weak dollar, so the final tab for replacement mudguards was just a few pennies over USD$100. Not anyone's fault for the cost, really, just the way it is. US domestic postage has skyrocketed as well, often costing far more than the item, as here.

SKS' US distributor's mudguards aren't the same as the Euro version, so it was take a deep breath and then hit the "Buy" button to restore a matching set to the Nomad. Lotsa work ahead.

Whew. I saw stars on this one.

Really hoping they arrive undamaged.

Best,

Dan. (...who is dabbling a toe in the deep end of the pool by inquiring about a security bolt for The Plug2+, along with front and rear hub skewers from Atomic22)
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: jags on July 28, 2013, 11:43:16 PM
Dan i reckon you would be much better off taking your nomad over to the UK for a grand tour stock up on parts from sjs at cost price ;) and then hop over here fly back from dublin.
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: Danneaux on July 29, 2013, 12:20:59 AM
Now, jags, that sounds like a grand idea! Sign me up!

All the best,

Dan. (...who has collected "air miles" for people-flights and wishes he has some to defray the Nomad's fare as well).
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: jags on July 29, 2013, 12:25:23 AM
think of all the money you would save on postage ;)you could even go lightweight warm showers  just find out the addresses of all the lads here and go from house to house then pop over to me.
sha what bother would be on ya. ;)
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: Danneaux on August 06, 2013, 06:55:51 PM
Hi All!

I may have whinged a bit on the cost of international shipping and for being on the wrong side of the exchange rates for my recent replacement mudguard order from SJSC, but the service was fantastic!

I placed my order online 28 July and it arrived here in the upper-left corner of 'Merka on the morning of 2 August by special postal courier, damage-free in a custom-made shipping box, all in perfect order.

Now, that's service! Well done, SJS Cycles!

Best,

Dan.
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: Danneaux on August 09, 2013, 06:37:55 PM
Hi All!

Casting about for a ready means to carry a lightweight camping kit (sub-kilo down bag, self-inflating pad, tent and footprint, my rain gear, Pocket Kitchen [meths stove, windshield, 2 alu bowls and lid with Reflectix cozy], some spare tights and light fleece top, and food, the lot totaling less than 10lb/4.5kg), I found my present expandable rack-top bag a bit shy on space.

I found an Ortlieb Bike Packer Plus pannier with the QL-2 hook system will nicely and securely cleat *atop* a Thorn Expedition rack, making for a 20l rack-top pack. It locks in place as securely as on the side, saves the weight of a second bag, balances evenly side-to-side, and doesn't disturb the handling with the light load I'll be carrying. The rack cross-members are the same ~10mm OD as the top rail and struts, so it was just a matter of adjusting the hooks closer together and setting the lower fins (I use two) so they catch the next cross-member.

Presto! Instant and secure larger rack-pack for free if you already own the panniers.

Best,

Dan. (...who -- despite all appearances -- can do "light" as well as "expedition")
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: triaesthete on August 09, 2013, 07:10:06 PM

Excellent lateral thinking Dr Danneaux.  Must we now discuss relative advantage re lateral and vertical displacement of c of g  ;D

Never seen that before.

Well done
Ian
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: George Hetrick on August 09, 2013, 07:47:00 PM
I found an Ortlieb Bike Packer Plus pannier with the QL-2 hook system will nicely and securely cleat *atop* a Thorn Expedition rack, making for a 20l rack-top pack.
If all you need is a 20L bag, I'd think about using a Carradice Camper Longflap (920g, 24L) (http://www.carradice.co.uk/index.php?page_id=product&under=type&product_id=35 (http://www.carradice.co.uk/index.php?page_id=product&under=type&product_id=35)), together with an Bagman expedition rack (434g) (http://www.carradice.co.uk/index.php?page_id=product&under=other&product_id=85).

The Bagman weighs about 1/2 the Thorn rack (853g).

I mean, it's a British bike -- it should have a British saddlebag!
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: Danneaux on August 09, 2013, 07:56:15 PM
Quote
I mean, it's a British bike -- it should have a British saddlebag!
Absolutely, George! And, those are very nice ones you linked to.

On the other hand, I won't be using this much, it is free 'cos I already have it, and I'm chea-- er, "careful" (frugal) and this saves a few coins for Other Projects. There's so many in the works, I have to prioritize. I need to finish two framebuilding projects before I start a third. Then, that Mac of ours went and linked to a rear-wheel-steered recumbent very like the one I have yet to see up close, ridden by a local woman. I have plans in mind for a variation with a twist or two Beyond.

All the best,

Dan. (..whose garage workshop resembles Dr. Frankenstein's Laboratory of Bicycle Vivisection)
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: George Hetrick on August 09, 2013, 08:03:34 PM
... it is free 'cos I already have it, and I'm chea-- er, "careful"...

I'm force to admit, free is my very favorite price  ;D
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: triaesthete on August 09, 2013, 08:30:39 PM
To add lightness at this volume use a Super C saddlebag directly mounted to the saddle as God intended.

-500g for free  ;)
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: Danneaux on August 09, 2013, 08:37:02 PM
Quote
The Bagman weighs about 1/2 the Thorn rack
...and...
Quote
To add lightness at this volume use a Super C saddlebag directly mounted to the saddle as God intended. 500g for free
Ohhhh...blast!

Saved weight vs monetary cost!

What a dilemma~!  ::) :P :-\

All the best,

Dan. (...who will soon weigh less for carrying fewer dollars!)
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: rualexander on August 09, 2013, 09:43:37 PM
Hey Dan,

Did you know that today is Boring and Dull day, to celebrate the twinning of Boring, Oregon with Dull, Perthshire?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-tayside-central-23631026
I've been through Dull on my Sherpa, have you been to Boring on your Sherpa or Nomad?
It seems also that Bland in Australia is trying to get in on the act.

P.s. Neat idea with the pannier as a rackpack!
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: Danneaux on August 09, 2013, 09:58:10 PM
Hi Rual!

Thanks for the heads-up or I might have missed this in the day's excitement!  :D

In any case, I loved the linked news story; thanks so much for your thoughtfulness in posting it. Dull *and* Boring -- a match for the ages!

I have driven through Boring, Oregon by car though not yet by bicycle. There's not much there!  The Boring town was named after a Boring man: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boring,_Oregon  and the residents must live ehm, Boring lives. Boring...but never Dull!  ;)

The bid for tourism seems to be working on this side of the Pond. The unincorporated town now has a website where you can buy printed t-shirts commemorating the new partnership: http://boringoregon.com/ It seems to have made Facebook as well: https://www.facebook.com/BoringOregon

What fun; I'm just tickled you posted this, Rual!

All the best,

Dan. (...who is looking more exciting in comparison)
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: Andre Jute on August 09, 2013, 10:20:36 PM
With so many crackheads on the loose in Eugene, and where No lives, Dull, Boring & Bland might be light relief.

Andre Jute
Coiner of the phrase "...a town so dull, six o'clock every evening they roll up the pavements"
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: macspud on August 09, 2013, 11:46:05 PM
Then, that Mac of ours went and linked to a rear-wheel-steered recumbent very like the one I have yet to see up close, ridden by a local woman. I have plans in mind for a variation with a twist or two Beyond.

I thought that might get your frame building juices flowing Dan    ;)
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: Danneaux on August 10, 2013, 01:15:59 AM
Quote
I thought that might get your frame building juices flowing Dan
Sure did! Very much appreciated, Mac!

I've had something along those lines in mind for awhile, utilizing camber change and castor effect to invoke a change in direction. Rear-steer bikes don't really have to be steered in the conventional sense unless you wish to make really tight turns at low speeds.

All the best,

Dan. (...for whom such things are sic'em*)

*a regional colloquialism in the Yew Essay: http://www.waywordradio.org/know-here-from-sic-em/ ...and... http://www.nytimes.com/1993/06/13/magazine/on-language-sic-em.html
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: il padrone on August 10, 2013, 01:55:48 AM
Hey Dan,

Did you know that today is Boring and Dull day, to celebrate the twinning of Boring, Oregon with Dull, Perthshire?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-tayside-central-23631026
I've been through Dull on my Sherpa, have you been to Boring on your Sherpa or Nomad?
It seems also that Bland in Australia is trying to get in on the act.


But down in Tasmania, Kindred is livening things up just a little  ;)
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: John Saxby on August 12, 2013, 02:50:17 AM
Hi all,

Re:  Dull & Boring:  heard about this on the CBC a while back.  I suggested that they cut the Gordian knot by going on holiday to a place in the Eastern Transvaal (as was) which Andre will probably know, Dullstroom.  Lovely spot, exemplary pancake house and craft market, with nearby trout streams for those into fly-fishing.

J.
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: Andre Jute on August 12, 2013, 01:12:57 PM
Dullstroom!

I woke up in the hospital there once after a motor car accident. Loveliest nurses on earth. I didn't think it was dull at all!

You know all the best places, John.

Andre Jute
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: il padrone on August 12, 2013, 02:43:41 PM
(http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2115/2057242685_d4a7fd8580_z.jpg?zz=1)
 ;D

(http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/60726000/jpg/_60726887_composite2.jpg)

 ;D
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: Danneaux on August 18, 2013, 06:02:08 PM
Hi All!

For day rides, I normally mount the Nomad by swinging a leg over the saddle, but not so on tours. With morning-cold adductor muscles and a load atop the rear rack, I tend to lean the bike over and "step through" between the saddle and steerer and there's a possibility of scuffing the top tube with my shoe.

Deciding it is better to be proactive than fix things after the fact, I carefully cut and applied a layer of protective tape to the top tube using the same Trim-Brite matte black windshield trim tape I use to prevent cable housing scuffs. It matches the Nomad's paint in color and gloss, has a low-creep adhesive to prevent furry edges, and is durable enough to withstand the flailing brushes of repeated automatic car washes. Best of all, it can be removed and replaced when desired. It comes in a 1-3/8" x 20' roll available from American auto parts stores and a number of online retailers, including these:
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/SLC-T9005/
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00029XD62/?tag=newaug2012-20

The good news is, it is almost invisible (see attached photos) and should shield the paint from scuffs and sweat.

Best,

Dan.
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: mickeg on August 18, 2013, 10:57:45 PM
For when I lean the bike against a post for parking or locking it to something, I keep a short piece of pipe insulation on the top tube with velcro, as shown here.
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: jags on August 18, 2013, 11:06:54 PM
Wow your well loaded up .
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: revelo on September 30, 2013, 08:51:19 PM
The loaded bike weighed 138 lbs (bare bike was 45lbs, so the net wet load was 93lb) and the loaded trailer weighed 45lbs (bare trailer weighs 12lbs, so the net wet load was 33lbs). Total weight of all rolling stock was 183lb. Kitted out for riding, I added another 174lbs.  That is a lot of weight...

It certainly is. What are you carrying to have so much weight? My own max weight is 23L water, 7kg food, 8kg camping gear, 3kg bike repair kit and spares, 1kg books and maps, or about 42kg total. (I count the panniers and other carrying gear as part of the bike itself, but that would add only 3kg more.)

Quote
The Picaridin-based insect repellent was brilliant. I ran into heavy mosquito populations as well as deer flies, and both hovered in clouds about my face but either didn't land or didn't stay to bite if they did touch down. They seemed confused. The smell was pleasant, it wasn't greasy, and no worries about damage to plastics.

Question for you: is this along the coast? Is the mosquito situation there similar to coastal California around Arcata? Because I was thinking of touring around there next July to avoid the heat in the Lassen area.

Quote
Chief among these was the Extrawheel trailer -- for my bike and use in these conditions. So, what was the problem?

I continue to think trailer is a bad idea, in so many ways. I still don't understand what you are carrying to require a trailer in addition to 4 panniers plus rack bags plus extra large water bottles in the bottle cages. As for mudguards, Andy Blance doesn't use them for touring: 'Nuff said.

Also, those Duremes should be replaced by 55-559 Mondials, you haven't spent enough time on dirt roads if you disagree.

Quote
My MSR Dromedary 10l bags smell and taste terrible almost to the point of rendering the water stored in them almost undrinkable. I understand others have experienced this with Ortlieb water bags as well. MSR say this is not present a health issue, but when I decanted the water, it looked like it contained soap suds. I live about .75 miles south of a water-treatment facility, and my water has considerable quantities of chlorine and now bromine as well. The chlorinated/brominated water is known to react with these linings, and I followed the recommendation to fill the bags with baking soda and very hot water, let stand overnight, then decant and rinse, filling with clear water and allowing to dry. This worked initially, but when I took care to fill that Dromedary and another (virgin) example only with distilled bottled water, the "chemical" smell and taste became evident after only a few hours. I understnd the MSR Platypus water bags have no such taste/odor issues, but they are not as robust as the Dromedaries or the Ortlieb versions. This is a problem I need to resolve, as water stores are critical to my desert tours.

Not sure what is going on here. Water from my Dromedaries always tastes very clean coming out if it was clean going in. (Water in Reno is clean mountain water, as is all the water in Lassen, whereas water down near the lower Colorado river near Bullhead City, for example, where I'll be heading later this year is horrible tasting with chemicals.) I use 6L Dromedaries (better than 10L because you can spread 4 bladder among 4 panniers to get 22L capacity, since the actual capacity for field use is only 5.5L/bladder) and I have no problems with smell or soapy bubbles, even though they have been used for hundreds of days of backpacking and bicycle touring, and the ones used for backpacking have had untreated water put in them. Up to now, I've been throwing a Micropur clorine-dioxide tablet into each bladder every couple of weeks, to keep them fresh. Each of these tablets is intended to purify only a single liter of water, but I figure if the water itself is already clean, the chlorine dioxide should mop up whatever bacteria has accumulated on the bladder fabric.  REI has replaced Micropur with MSR Aquatabs, which is some sort of chlorine compound, which should work similarly. Another possibility someone recommended to me is denture cleaning tablets.

Note that I had to replace one of my MSR dromedaries due to a pinhole leak from a cactus or other thorn during one of my tours, which is a good reason to have many smaller bladders rather than a single large bladder.

Where I have had problems is with my Nalgene bottles that I carry in the bike cages. I had to put 30 drops of MSR Sweetwater solution (sodium hypochlorite, or standard bleach absent the perfumes they put in laundry bleach) in each .6L bottle to clean them, even though the instructions say on 5 drops per full liter. And even having cleaned them, they still start to stink again very quickly. I only use these bottles for washing (rinsing my face of salt, cleaning up after defecating, brushing my teeth, cleaning the bike chain), so the smell doesn't worry me too much. That crazy "tired of i.t." guy also had problems with this brand of bottle (but then he has problems with everything, including busting several Andra rims, busting his spokes, busting several click-stands, etc). I like these bottles because they support the MSR 3-in-1 cap, which I also use on the Dromedaries, and so are spares if the 3-in-1 cap fails (I had a failure during a hiking trip in Spain this past spring).

And yes, water is the key to desert touring.

Quote
The area where I traveled has essentially no cellphone service. Verizon has easily the best coverage here, but there was nothing available from the time I entered the coast range until near the city limits of Waldport, on the Oregon Coast. That meant my 4G LTE hotspot wouldn't work either. The data bytes I purchased for it were only good for a week with no rollover and so were wasted on this trip. It worked great at home. Visiting owners of GSM phones be advised: Verizon is a CDMA network, incompatible with GSM. Forum member John Saxby advised me he had very limited use of his AT&T GSM phone west of the Missouri River and really limited use away from population centers in the rural West. I need to look into a sat-phone and its operating costs.

Is there a reason you need phone service outside of towns?

For visiting GSM owners: You have to get the more expensive contract ATT service to enable roaming with all the smaller networks in the small towns. The prepaid ATT service only works on ATT's own network, which focuses on the larger towns. And there is never ATT (or other mobile) service outside of towns, other than along the interstate highways.

Somewhere else I noticed you mentioned Alvord, Oregon. Very bad idea to tour in the Great Basin other than in September/October. Ideal time is centered around September 30. However, you will need to watch the weather, because there can be early season storms even in early October. But the snow won't last long. July will be miserably hot. Really bad idea. Worse idea than that trailer even.
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: Danneaux on October 01, 2013, 07:32:07 PM
Hi Frank!

We all have our own ways of cycling and touring, valid for each of us.

Yes, there are mosquitoes, deer flies, chiggers, and ticks here in much of Oregon; the mosquitoes can carry West Nile Virus and the ticks can carry the Lyme Disease, Ehrlichiosii, and Bebasia I contracted. Heavy concentrations or all exist along the coast and especially near Bandon, where a marsh has been re-created as a wildlife habitat ( http://www.oregonlive.com/pacific-northwest-news/index.ssf/2013/08/bandon_mosquito_infestation_ha.html ). The swarms of biting insects are proving a real challenge for local residents. A good part of the Coast range is habitat to mosquitoes, and the Calapooyas and wetter/snowier parts of the Cascades are, too. My father returned home from a trip we took covered with over 400 chigger bites, despite using DEET to ward them off. The Malheur Wildlife Preserve and a good part of the Hart Mountain Preserve's lowland areas are homes to many mosquitoes, and West Nile virus is well entrenched in Grant and Malheur counties.

Traveling the desert in the midst of summer, I do need to take more than the usual amount of water, particularly if I am to be away from resupply for some time. The trailer does provide a way to carry extra while allowing me to also take the larger food stores I need to remain independent of resupply and in the back-country longer than would otherwise be possible.

True, Andy Blance doesn't use mudguards, but I prefer them long and fitted with very long mudflaps, finding they keep me and my drivetrain much drier and cleaner and longer-lived than without. Yes, they can sometimes clog, but I've found them particularly handy in talc-fine playa and again when the playa gets wet and sticky.

Similarly, I toured the same areas for many years on 700x32C and narrower road slicks and came to prefer them for pavement, dirt roads, gravel roads, fire and logging roads and true off-road use cross-country  (where they are often kinder to trails and cause less erosion than knobbies); much depends on riding technique. On everything except wet grass, I found they provided adequate tracton while minimizing pick-up of mud and wet playa. The 50mm Duremes are the widest tire I've used and have as much tread as I'd like; I can see some Supremes in my future for use in the same kind of terrain. I started riding "with intent" in the days before mountain bikes when cyclo-cross bikes made dandy off-roaders.

The greatest benefit of smooth(ish) tires, mudguards/fenders, and generously long mudflaps for me has been a clean drivetrain, even with derailleurs. This has proved a winning combo for me in desert touring as well as in Europe, where my touring partner ran without mudguards and the contrast was stark: My open drivetrain was virtually untouched by water, mud, dirt, manure, and the sand of Dutch off-road tracks, while his drivetrain, gear and clothing was thoroughly crusted. Because the drivetrain stays cleaner, I have to clean and lube far less often than others who eschew 'guards. On balance, this combo has worked well for me. I have periodicaly tried touring and cycling with and without 'guards and have always quickly returned to using them again.

Since I come to cycling from road bikes (and used them off-road as well), I also swim upstream against the current MTB and Trekking influences by continuing to prefer drop handlebars. I'm no iconoclast, just sticking with what has worked well for me or 35 years of touring in the Great Basin and American West. I like the extra hand and back positions drops allow and prefer them in the frequent headwinds I encounter.

The best water bottle I've found to date for my needs is the Zfal Magnum, with 1 liter capacity. Despite its volume, it fits securely in a standard cage, doesn't leak if the top is screwed tight, has a tight-fitting but soft stopper, and has never imparted a smell or taste to my water. I use the black ones and have no experience with the translucent version.
Quote
Is there a reason you need phone service outside of towns?
Yes, there is. I spend considerable time away from towns and services and ride alone. I find it useful to have phone service in the event I am hurt or injured and need assistance. At other times, cell service is useful to provide an internet connection for my 4G LTE portable wifi hotspot so I can continue to do my work while on-tour or to upload photos or installments for a blog. I have found Verizon provides the best cell-tower coverage in the areas I ride.
Quote
Very bad idea to tour in the Great Basin other than in September/October.
For the most part, I've had good success touring the Great Basin in High Summer, provided I plan carefully and take extra supplies of food and water. Of course weather is the ultimate determining factor, and it caused me to cancel my plans this summer, due to a period of unusually high temperatures and wildfires that would have hemmed-in my route and rendered air quality very poor. Alvord is a matter of timing. Go too early or late and much of it is a shallow lake. Hit it right -- usually in High Summer -- and it is very ridable and the shadow of Steens Mountain makes it practical to ride much of the day.

So, different strokes for different folks; we all have our preferences and get there in the end with whatever works best for each.

Best,

Dan.
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: revelo on October 02, 2013, 12:58:05 AM
Whatever. I think it's sort of sad when you take an absolutely superbly designed and built bike (the expedition-level Nomad) and then sabotaged it with a trailer. Because you are forum administrator, prospective buyers might get the impression that your method is the wise way to do things with a Nomad when carrying heavy loads, and thus wonder why bother with an expensive Nomad rather than cheaper bike. Whereas the truth is that a trailer is simply a low-cost option for people who've already spent a lot of money on a lightweight touring bike and can't afford a bike like the expedition-level Nomad which can carry huge amounts of weight on the bike itself.

For selfish reasons, I'd like to see both Thorn and Rohloff thrive. I'd love to have a Thorn and Rohloff distributorship/service center here in Reno, for example. And I'd like to see more people bike touring dirt roads, so that they continue to be open to bike touring and bike touring becomes considered a vital part of the economy, similar to RV'ing (caravaning in Britain). Which is why I get a little ticked off when I see someone right in my neighborhood, riding the same Nomad bike as me in the same types of environments as me, doing things in a way that is pretty much guaranteed to cause problems. People reading about these problems who don't know better will start to think Thorn's design or build is the cause of these problems, rather than blaming the modifications to Thorn's standard expedition configuration.
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: JimK on October 02, 2013, 02:25:00 AM
bike touring becomes considered a vital part of the economy

One of my goals is to see long distance multi-day rides become a vital part of the transportation network, a perfectly normal way to get from point A to point B.

Here: http://kevinanderson.info/blog/hypocrites-in-the-air-should-climate-change-academics-lead-by-example/ is a related essay on travel modalities.

I appreciate Dan's hard work at keeping the spammers away etc. when he wears his administrator hat and also his many insights based on lots of experience as a forum contributor. Yeah, some of his ideas are a bit wild... but he's hardly the only genuine character here! Maybe he should have two user IDs to keep the roles separate... but I suspect there is not much confusion.

You, Frank, are certainly another person with an amazing depth of experience and insight. I have spent a lot of time on your website! I hope you can contribute a lot of your thinking here, too! I am working toward vaster expeditions... inch by inch! It is great to get the differing points of view and the various angles pro and con whatever. I am trying to use the controversies to development some contentment with what I have - since there is no consensus that any other set-up is better! Spend less, ride more!

 
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: il padrone on October 02, 2013, 07:17:21 AM
Whatever. I think it's sort of sad when you take an absolutely superbly designed and built bike (the expedition-level Nomad) and then sabotaged it with a trailer. Because you are forum administrator, prospective buyers might get the impression that your method is the wise way to do things with a Nomad when carrying heavy loads, and thus wonder why bother with an expensive Nomad rather than cheaper bike. Whereas the truth is that a trailer is simply a low-cost option for people who've already spent a lot of money on a lightweight touring bike and can't afford a bike like the expedition-level Nomad which can carry huge amounts of weight on the bike itself.

I took my Nomad around Central Australia..... along the Mereenie Loop Road, out to Uluru, then across to Finke and along the Andado Track. With an Extrawheel trailer. It extended my carrying capacity notably for food for up to 8 days, and water for up to 3-4 days. 23L of water and about 12kgs of food on top of the normal touring load. I reckon I had up to 60kg on board at times and the trailer spread this over 3 wheels (not insignificant in very sandy tracks). It also reduced any potential load stresses on my pannier racks.

(http://i1327.photobucket.com/albums/u666/petesig26/Red%20Centre%20Way%20and%20the%20road%20to%20Old%20Andado/P1020200_zps34f637a3.jpg) (http://s1327.photobucket.com/user/petesig26/media/Red%20Centre%20Way%20and%20the%20road%20to%20Old%20Andado/P1020200_zps34f637a3.jpg.html)



Russell Worthington (http://russellworthington.blogspot.com.au/2009/12/10-deserts-photo-tour.html) also used a trailer (but not a Thorn, a Fatbike I think) for his 10 DEserts Tour, through evry desert in Australia

(http://i196.photobucket.com/albums/aa275/Russ3446/10%20Deserts%20Cycle%20Epic/Picture469.jpg)
(http://i196.photobucket.com/albums/aa275/Russ3446/10%20Deserts%20Cycle%20Epic/Picture503.jpg)

I don't really see any significant problems or downside with touring with the trailer. I've done two expedition tours with it - one of 5 weeks and another of 12 weeks. On both of these the trailer ran almost faultlessly. I certainly cannot see how using a trailer for expedition touring will somehow damage Thorn's good reputation or worsen their support as a high quality bike supplier.
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: Danneaux on October 22, 2013, 07:46:07 PM
Hi All!

An idle Danneaux is a terrible thing to contemplate, so when I've had a few moments, my thoughts turned to redundant systems for my solo, self-supported adventuring in the back-of-beyond.

Although Rohloff failures are few and far between, it would be nice to have a bailout option in such circumstances. Peace of mind and all that.

I already checked and confirmed my ProblemSolvers universal emergency derailleur hanger ( http://problemsolversbike.com/products/universal_derailleur_hanger ) will indeed fit my Nomad. It is supplied with two anti-rotation studs; you just remove the unneeded one and secure the hanger in place of your hub quick-release nut. With one of these little hummers, a standard rear mech and 135mm OLN cassette hub could be substituted for the Nomad. The needed cable housing could simply be zip-tied to the chainstay and downtube, and friction shifter clamped to one of the T-bars for continued use as a 9-speed until a sick hub could be returned to service. A standard 11-32 touring cassette would give me 9 gears in a range of 29-85 gear-inches; not bad for a general use emergency derailleur setup.

Unfortunately, where I go there are *no* bike shops to acquire a replacement wheel, so I've been thinking about alternatives. My Nomad has the disc-capable Rohloff hub and the disc BCD s 64mm -- the same as a standard 4-bolt inner chainring. I figured fitting one of these would give me the option to run Fixed if need be and for little weight penalty; the emergency chainring/cog would self-store on the hub in place of a disc. Adding a short length of chain with two quick-links and adjusting the EBB would see me on my way again quickly. With my 36T chainring and 26x2.0 tires, I'd end up with a 43 gear-inch combination; not bad as a compromise gear for all conditions and it would surely beat pushing the bike Out in the extremely unlikely event of a Hub Emergency. With my hummingbirdlike cadence of 110-120RPM, I'd top out at a touring-reasonable 15mph/24kph or so and the bike would have brakes, unlike most Fixies I've ridden. Perhaps not pleasant, but a welcome alternative to being afoot with bike-as-wheelbarrow.

With these thoughts in mind, I snagged an unused stainless 22T chainring with plain, tall teeth on eBay for USD$6.41 postpaid and promptly etched, then shot it with a two-part catalyzed polyurethane in satin black to match the Rohloff's anodizing and keep with the all-black scheme. Of course now it is painted, I find the lower part of the 'ring's mounting bosses interfere with the disc mounting lands on the hub, so the "cog" will require some milling to achieve a fit (see photos). Basic clearances look good at this point for achieving a proper chainline, but I'll remeasure to confirm.

Just thought I'd post photos for those who might be interested in the latest Danneaux Project In Progress.

Best,

Dan. (...who wants a ready ehm, "Fix" if he finds something Broken  :D)
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: brummie on October 22, 2013, 08:47:51 PM
Dan, How do the two chainrings line up for your 'chainline' ?
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: Danneaux on October 22, 2013, 09:12:33 PM
Quote
Dan, How do the two chainrings line up for your 'chainline' ?
Brummie, I'll need to check for sure once I mill the cog for clearance, but it looks encouraging for a 54mm chainline according to advance measurements and calculations.

If you're contemplating this, hold off till I confirm. It is a work in progress, and I will have to back-burner it for a couple weeks due to the press of work/other tasks. I may have to move the main chainring to the outer position on my 4-arm, 104BCD Deore crank, in place of my bash guard. We'll see.

Two-way torque calculations for the resultant 43in low look within spec to match braking forces for a mounted Rohloff disc, but I will check this as well.

A big concern on my test rig was to get a chainring with deep teeth and no indexed tooth profiling that could lead to derailment when used as a cog if chainline were slightly less-than-perfect. I used to use chainrings as low-gear cogs on my freewheels back in my earlier gearhead/climbing nut days. Freewheel cogs made dandy chainrings, too. The combo meant lows of 10-12 gear-inches and high torque loads that resulted in some very tightly screwed-on freewheels 'til I discovered crushable aluminum spacers and molybdenum disulphide paste as a high-pressure thread lubricant.

At the moment, I'm getting a lot of play/fun in return for my USD$6.41.  ;D

Stay tuned.

All the best,

Dan.
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: Danneaux on October 22, 2013, 11:03:37 PM
For those who have written me to ask...

"Dan, what does your Nomad look like when you run 1.5in road slicks with the mudguards set to generously clear 2.0in Duremes?"

...I answer: "Like a gawky adolescent going through the 'difficult' teen years". Pic attached below. Lots of clearance, for sure.

Result is a bike that feels and is a little bit faster to accelerate, thanks to the reduced rotating weight of the smaller, lighter Bontrager SR1s ( http://bontrager.com/model/09094 ). The change in tire profile results in a bit less trail. Lots of fun to try, but the need for 55psi pressures (as opposed to my usual 29/34psi F/R) makes it a tradeoff, as the ride is less comfortable. After an enjoyable trial, they went onto the tandem to replace an older pair of the same. Just about perfect pumped to 85psi F/R on the Double Bike's 72in wheelbase, which soaks up a lot of vibration and includes a sus-'post for the stoker's comfort.

Best,

Dan.
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: bikerwaser on October 25, 2013, 11:42:57 AM
Hi Dan

sorry if this sound slike a strange question but i wondered why you have 2 Thorn bikes ? im guessing each one has its own purpose ?

cheers !

Bikerwaser

 
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: Matt2matt2002 on October 25, 2013, 12:37:27 PM
Hi Dan

sorry if this sound slike a strange question but i wondered why you have 2 Thorn bikes ? im guessing each one has its own purpose ?

cheers !

Bikerwaser

 

I would have asked, "Why do you only have 2 Thorns?"
 ;)
Matt ( who dreams of his second)
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: Danneaux on October 25, 2013, 07:43:08 PM
Quote
sorry if this sound slike a strange question but i wondered why you have 2 Thorn bikes ? im guessing each one has its own purpose ?
Hi Bikerwaser and Matt!

I'll answer comprehensively for those who are thinking of adding a second Thorn to their stable...

I have owned two Thorns, but only one at a time. I once owned Sherpa, and now I own the Nomad.

Sherpa developed a baffling loaded handling problem in my use which could not be resolved by heroic efforts at my end, even with Thorn's help and that of the Forum membership. At the time, my Mk2 Sherpa had been replaced by the Mk3 with reduced load capacity in my frame size (different tubing diameters) and I still required maximum carrying capacity for my extended solo, self-supported expeditions in desert regions, where I must carry lots of water and food. Thorn worked with me tirelessly on trying further solutions for Sherpa and when those did not work, they did an absolutely stellar job of standing behind their words and replaced Sherpa with the Nomad Mk2, the only bike remaining in their line that could handle my sometimes-massive loads. Story here: http://www.thorncycles.co.uk/forums/index.php?topic=4320.0 ...and happy conclusion here: http://www.thorncycles.co.uk/forums/index.php?topic=3896.msg22473#msg22473

Thorn were unable to duplicate Sherpa's handling problem as shown in video of Andy Blance successfully riding the loaded bike downhill at high speed. The source of the problem in my hands remains a mystery to this day, but Thorn's warranty is no mystery: They stood behind their product 100% and more, making every accommodation to restore me to a working bicycle suitable to my extreme needs when mine proved problematic and every possible remedy failed to correct the problem in my hands. We both wanted Sherpa to work for me.

Sherpa (a Mk2) was a lovely handling bicycle for me when it was unladen or lightly loaded. It was a perfect blend of comfort and carrying capacity, I dearly loved it as the fulfillment of a long-held dream, and the sizing made it a perfect fit. So far as I know mine was an isolated problem, at least in terms of its severity. Other Sherpas have handled well and reliably for many owners in 'round-the-world tours, and I wouldn't hesitate to recommend the Mk2 or later Mk3 (keeping in mind changes in tubing diameter for the latter have reduced ultimate carrying capacity but made it a more versatile all-'rounder).

The Nomad Mk2 has fulfilled its mission for me as a true expedition touring bike with no problems whatsoever. Differences in top tube length (Medium top-tube Nomad vs Short top-tube Sherpa) required a little creativity for use with my preferred drop handlebars, but it now fits identically to Sherpa and my other bikes. It is biased more firmly toward expedition touring (exactly what I needed) and is therefore a bit less suited as an unladen all-'rounder. Though I ride at the same speed as I did on Sherpa, the Nomad is a little less responsive and not as quick-feeling when riding unladen with the same rims and tires. I experience more road shock when riding it alone, but in turn the ride smooths out beautifully when it is carrying 50kg/110lb loads (as much as 26.5l/kg/58lb of that in water). In all fairness, I do find myself riding the bike as I might a mountain bike -- on the very rough surfaces of logging roads, dirt tracks, goat trails, and cross-country, so it is only natural I *would* be subjected to more shock and vibration when unladen! I have found running less air in the tires (F29psi/R34psi) helps immensely, and I will be trying a variety of suspension seatposts soon. Surprisingly, I found I'm getting more shock from the rear than the front when riding the equivalent of cobbles, and I think a parallelogram sus-post will be just the thing to address it while avoiding the problems of telescopic 'posts. Field trials should commence soon with reports and photos to follow.

Based on my own experience with the Nomad, I think Andy Blance has described it very fairly in the brochure when he says...
Quote
Some people say that the bikes are heavy but I have had no complaints from any customer, who was looking for a true expedition touring bike.

Crashing down rocky trails, with huge loads or being thrown around by baggage handlers, is a sure way to test robustness and durability to their limits. There is no substitute for tube wall thickness, in these circumstances.  What would be the point of having an expedition frame built with tubes, which would loose all their structural integrity, once they had a big dent in them?

...The Nomad Mk2 frames contain around 3Kg of high quality steel but, considering their immense strength, they are indeed exceptionally light in weight!

However, they are still heavy bikes, especially in EXPEDITION SPEC with 2.15" expedition tyres and expedition rims.  

Whilst even EXPEDITION SPEC NOMADS can be used for general commuting between trips and whilst they are quite happy to lope along, they take considerable energy to accelerate briskly and will not suit macho types, who hate being overtaken by any other cyclist!
 
If you choose the EURO SPEC NOMAD, it will not only work better on European, road based tours - it will be a much nicer all-weather commuting and general purpose bike.
The Nomad is a "lot of bike" -- just what it says on the tin and exactly what I need. I have other bikes for lighter touring, rando/very long day rides, and more sporty riding. I would describe my other bikes as "touring bikes", the Sherpa Mk2 as a "heavy-duty tourer" and the Nomad as a "super-duty" tourer well-suited for true expedition use and loads.

As an aside, playing with tires has shown they can greatly affect the ride, handling, and feel of the Nomad. I find mine is most happy with  2.0 Schwalbe Duremes, and that is my default spec. I tried some heavier tires and didn't like the more "dead" feel. Similarly, acceleration improved and handling quickened at higher speeds (thanks to the reduction in rotating mass and a change in pneumatic trail) with 1.6in road slicks, but what's the point? At heart, this is still an expedition touring bike and excels at that role. Even so, I find myself riding it the majority of the time simply because I enjoy it so much, and the versatility means I can turn a paved-road day ride into a full-blown exploration of remote tracks without having to change bikes.

The Nomad is seeing use about 85% of the time, my rando bike about 15%, and the other poor bikes are largely neglected. All my bikes seem to end up as touring bikes one way or t'other, but these two cover the spectrum from fast day rides and general touring (with loads up to about 25kg/56lb maximum for the rando bike, which is the rough equivalent of 85% Thorn Club Tour and 15% Audax, thanks to the lightweight wheels; well suited for 300-400km days unladen) and then rough-stuff and expedition touring with the Nomad happily loping along with 50kg loads.

There is reason to have more than one Thorn. They are exceptionally versatile bikes, but still each one excels for a given purpose. If you choose one at each extreme -- say a Nomad and an Audax -- then you'll have two versatile bikes that contrast greatly and really put the spark in riding; no boredom when you can switch from one to another and really feel the difference. Handy topics for those considering multiple Thorns are here:
Audax or Sherpa: http://www.thorncycles.co.uk/forums/index.php?topic=6607.0
Sherpa or Club Tour: http://www.thorncycles.co.uk/forums/index.php?topic=4669.0
Sherpa or Nomad: http://www.thorncycles.co.uk/forums/index.php?topic=5581.msg30381#msg30381
A little chart I made showing how Sherpa and the Nomad compare to my rando bike in carrying capacity, comfort, and feel:
http://www.thorncycles.co.uk/forums/index.php?topic=4713.msg23329#msg23329

Best,

Dan.
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: mickeg on October 25, 2013, 08:25:28 PM
I own a Sherpa, size 610S.  Bought the used frame and fork from someone that had purchased the wrong size frame.  Several e-mails with SJS told me that this was the right size for me.

And, three years later (this past spring) bought a new Nomad frame and fork size 590M with S&S from SJS.

I am not disappointed with either purchase.  However the Sherpa has not been on the road since May because I have been trying to break in the Rohloff on the Nomad.  But, the Sherpa has been used on three loaded tours, each of a week or more.

Also regularly ride a Surly LHT (700c), vintage Bridgestone MB-6 and Airnimal Joey.  Thus, not an exclusive Thorn user.
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: Relayer on October 26, 2013, 08:57:00 AM
I do find myself riding the bike as I might a mountain bike -- on the very rough surfaces of logging roads, dirt tracks, goat trails, and cross-country, so it is only natural I *would* be subjected to more shock and vibration when unladen! I have found running less air in the tires (F29psi/R34psi) helps immensely, and I will be trying a variety of suspension seatposts soon. Surprisingly, I found I'm getting more shock from the rear than the front when riding the equivalent of cobbles, and I think a parallelogram sus-post will be just the thing to address it while avoiding the problems of telescopic 'posts. Field trials should commence soon with reports and photos to follow.

Now that will be very interesting for me Dan.

I often ponder the longer term future of my RST i.e. when it eventually needs a respray I might just get a new Raven frame instead. I would then transfer my Rohloff and bits across but with minimum 2 inch tyres and wider mudguards for use as a balloon bike, and if it would also be effective as a sort of mountain bike as you describe above then that would be an added bonus!

More power to your test pilot endeavours.   :)

Jim

Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: bikerwaser on October 26, 2013, 11:06:58 AM
Hey Dan

thanks !
As always a comprehensive reply.
I didnt realise youd changed from one to the other.
Ive always had the dream to have a massive garage where i have every bike imaginable from a penny farthing to a raleigh chopper to the best Thorn to a the best road racer and everything in between but as a friend of mine said youd probably get out on the bike youd chose and get half way up the road and think youd chosen the wrong bike.
i now only have 2 bikes. the Thorn Sherpa which im very happy with and an old GT LTS 3000 full sus mountain bike which is great for really gnarly routes.
most of the time (99.99%) im on the Sherpa and love the "all rounder" ability of it as i can load it up big time and it performs so well like that but with the light wheels and tyres as recommended by Thorn ( default Rigidas and Panaracer tyres ) its so fast that i can take the Lycra-louts on most days.
it also works really well on routes where most people would use a mountain bike.

in the end the dream of the massive garage with 100 bikes isnt going to happen and im happy with my 2 bikes that fit "my spectrum". having just the Sherpa would be fine too.

good to read you postings Dan.


have a good weekend

BikerWaser



 
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: il padrone on October 26, 2013, 01:32:42 PM
One for every day of the week is a fine compromise, and I have that now.

Monday - Gerald Tate SS 1960s-style club trainer
Tuesday - Shogun Metro roadster
Wednesday - Cecil Walker 1981 Audax road bike
Thursday - Vittoria WWII German roadster
Friday - Giant XcX MTB dually (if I ever get it cleaned up)
Saturday - Thorn Nomad
Sunday - Trek T100 tandem for some fun

Trouble is, as Dan said, I keep on riding that Nomad so much the other bikes just aren't getting a look in  :o :-\

Note that what I don't have is any bling carbon roadie bike  ;D
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: Danneaux on October 31, 2013, 04:27:24 AM
Hi All!

The second, Long Travel (LT) Thudbuster seatpost arrived today to join the Short Travel (ST) version.

Like a kid on Christmas Day, I set to work mounting the LT version first, reasoning it was the logical choice because a) I had the requisite room for it thanks to the Nomad's sloping top tube and b) for little more weight, why not have the advantages of greater travel and more finely tunable (two mix-matchable elastomers instead of one for the ST) damping?

Taking careful measurements of my Thorn/Zoom long-layback seatpost, I set up the TBLT to the same dimensions and went for a ride.

Keeping in mind these are early days and just my initial impressions with the LT version...

>>Wow!<<

It took me about a city block to get used to the down-and-back travel, but my smooth hummingbird cadence resulted in no unwanted bobbing and the 'post soaks up bumps as advertised while being very much in keeping with the Nomad's character. It felt like I was... riding on a 6in wide low-pressure rear tire instead of my usual 2in Schwalbe Dureme. I used the installed medium (blue/blue) elastomers indicated for my 78kg weight and found the elastomers have an effective rising-rate much like the air-spring of an inflated tire; the elastomers' spring response tightens under compression.

I had feared I might find myself reaching for the handlebars when the seatpost compressed, but I find my arms rotating around the 'bars and the reach remains largely the same, my bent elbows making an effective front "suspension". The 'post completely addressed the whiplash-effect on my neck when hitting big bumps or abrupt smaller ones like cobblestones or logging road ballast. Yes, the bumps are still there, but muted to a point where they are no bother at all. The saddle remains level thanks to the paralellogram linkage and the saddle-to-bottom bracket and saddle-to-pedal distance remains constant, so no knee problems for Danneaux at present. There seems to be no noticeable stiction or lateral play at this point. The parallelogram linkage in the Thudbuster LT is a completely different experience compared to the telescopic seatpost under my tandem's stoker saddle or the rocker-type elastomer suspension under the captain's saddle. I like it very much.

I worried the Thudbuster LT might foul the Brooks saddle rails, limiting travel. It doesn't, at least at this point. I thought it might be noisy; it is silent throughout its range. I had concerns it might not work well with the Brooks B.17; it does. The saddle is even more comfortable than before 'cos it doesn't have to absorb the bulk of every bump I hit while seated. I ride faster with the seatpost 'cos I don't have to stand up for bumps, and the rear tire gets better traction on loose surfaces 'cos I can ride seated for most of the bumps I encounter. I am especially pleased the bike's handling and cargo capacity remain unaffected; all I get is a much smoother ride.

There are some problems, however, and they range from slight to somewhat problematic.

On the slightly problematic side, the saddle has some initial sag when just sitting on it, dropping down-and-back about 7.5mm. Big bumps drive the saddle down and back from there. While the distance between saddle and BB remains constant, the rider's position behind the BB varies. This does affect spin slightly as well as effective torque output. I have not found it objectionable at this point, but did try moving the saddle forward 1cm to compensate. This had the unexpected effect of changing the effective spring rate -- the suspension action became less "bouncy" and more "damped". I will try moving it back 2.5mm to see if I can find a happy medium. If not, I'll change one of the elastomers (a softer and harder one are included with the medium ones on 'post and additional even softer and harder ones are available to mix-match as desired).

On the medium-problematic side, the LT version has a bolt through the urethane elastomers that keeps them in place and serves as a travel-stop. Because the 'post sags a bit under rider weight, the stop rarely comes into play, but it might be a good idea to carry a spare in case it someday fractures under rebound loading. The ST version does not have this bolt, relying instead on single molded elastomers made of natural rubber

There is a good possibility my seatpost plug -- the one that retains my spare spokes -- won't work on either of the Thudbusters without modification. I *think* there may be enough available length on the LT 'post to accommodate the spare spokes (I have to measure), but the plug would need some work, as the seatpost shaft is butted front and rear for strength, so it is not round inside -- there's flat sections fore and aft. I should be able to modify the plug so it will work.

On the more problematic side, my Ortlieb medium underseat bag won't fit my Brooks B.17 saddle when mounted on either the ST or LT 'post. The bracket was already set as far back as it would go, given the way the B.17 saddle rails spread apart at the rear. There simply isn't enough room to slide the bag onto the mount and engage it when the saddle is on either of the Thudbusters. To make it work, I'll either have to find an alternate mount or mill a new saddle rail mounting clamp from billet aluminum. Unfortunately, the Ortlieb mount's bolt spacing is just too narrow to allow me to bolt it to the seatpost's rear suspension link, but that remains a possibility if I can't mill a clamp from billet aluminum to fit the wider portion of the saddle rails.

More reports to follow as I use both posts and work to find solutions to the problems. Meanwhile, my initial impressions are very good; the LT has already exceeded expectations and addressed the neck-snap problems I had on really rough roads and trails. When I decide which one to keep, I'll buy the appropriate neoprene cover to keep the pivots clean and dry.

Best,

Dan.
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: Danneaux on October 31, 2013, 04:49:25 AM
Another picture showing the Thudbuster LT on the Nomad. Alarm and pump not yet reinstalled. AXA Defender missing in action till a new mount by Trelock arrives.

Best,

Dan.
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: Znook on October 31, 2013, 09:38:45 AM
Excellent work Dan, really looking forward to the reading of your findings on both versions especially the ST as, due to my size, that will probably be the one I'd have to go for.

Robbie.
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: Matt2matt2002 on October 31, 2013, 09:52:26 AM
Looks good.
Just saw one on UK eBay going second hand.
Says it is for a 27.2 mm post frame.
I have a 2 year old Raven.
Will it fit?
Thanks folks

Matt ( who is always one step behind Dan )
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: Danneaux on October 31, 2013, 10:04:52 AM
Quote
Just saw one on UK eBay going second hand.
Says it is for a 27.2 mm post frame.
I have a 2 year old Raven.
Will it fit?
It should fit, Matt. So far as I know, Thorn standardized *all* their seatposts on 27.2mm, fitting their frames either with or without a shim. Sherpa (a 2011 Mk2) took 27.2 with no shim, the 2012 Nomad Mk2 takes 27.2 with a shim.

Both my Thudbuster ST and LT are in 27.2mm size and they perfectly fit my Nomad's shim.

Would it be worth trying to source a new 'post from the US? The exchange rate is certainly in your favor, and with that offsetting shipping costs, might match the eBay.co.uk price or come close?

All the best,

Dan.
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: StuntPilot on October 31, 2013, 12:00:35 PM
Dan - good to see the two Thudbusters side by side. So you went for the Thudbuster eh? Hope my review did not put you off the SR Suntour! I am still very happy with it despite its initial difficulty in fitting a Brooks B17.

From the photographs it seems that the lateral width is less hence it fits between the saddle rails. Can you let me know the width of the Thudbusters' top where it fits between the B17 rails?

Sorry to hear about the Ortlieb bag problem. But good to know for other readers. I would be interested to hear how you solve the spoke storage problem. Due to the solid post containing the spring, it is not possible to store spokes in the seat tube.

Looking forward to future reports on how it goes in the long term!
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: jags on October 31, 2013, 01:20:29 PM
thats one weird looking seatpost there Dan and a lot of it showing as well, its as well you have a sloping top tube.oh seriously think i would only use that  for when your going adventure touring but for tarmac touring i would be using the normal seatpost.
sorry Dan i just don't like it but if it does what it says on the tin then who am i to disagree with an expert.
the rest of the bike is stunning. ;)
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: Danneaux on October 31, 2013, 06:19:20 PM
Richard! Anto!

I'll answer your posts in turn...
Quote
Hope my review did not put you off the SR Suntour!
I found your review very helpful in deciding which 'post to try, Richard. I was really leaning toward the SR SunTour until I read your report and viewed it in light of my needs. Among the things I really liked were the adjustable preload on the spring and the way it was constructed as well as the ready availability of a rebuild kit and neoprene cover. In my experience and in this application, I've found springs are more stable over (a long) time than elastomers, which can sometimes harden and change in their response, needing periodic replacement.

I was less enthusiastic about the way the clamp itself had been redesigned compared to the previous version, as I thought it might interfere with my fore-aft saddle placement. I wished the shaft had been hollow for storage, and I was a bit concerned over the apparent lack of rebound control in my use. The limited travel overall and travel before interference with the Brooks' rails were a concern in my use, seeing I seem to be using the Nomad more and more as an MTB so a long-travel sus-post rose in my rankings. Except for my 26in-wheeled tandem and experience with 20in-wheeled Folders, all my on- and off-road riding has been on 700C road bikes. The Nomad is proving so versatile, I am regularly taking it into rugged terrain where I encounter really poor riding conditions and need "more" in terms of suspension. This is why I started with the LT Thudbuster and think the ST may not fit the bill -- again, for me. If the lack of clearance prevented the LT, then I would certainly still consider the ST based on my LT experience so far, but I will test both so I can fairly choose and make an informed recommendation. I got both 'posts so I could directly compare each for fit, travel, and suitability for purpose for my needs.
Quote
Can you let me know the width of the Thudbusters' top where it fits between the B17 rails?
Sure can! This was also a factor in my decision, Richard. On the ST, the clamp's rail slots measure 35mm between the inside edges, and the suspension links are only 25mm, so there is a 10mm difference in width; 5mm per side making for lots of clearance. On the LT, the clamp is the same at 35mm inside measurement between rails, but the links are wider at ~30mm, so there is 5mm difference overall, 2.5mm clearance each side.

Now, here's the potential fly in the ointment: My Brooks B17 has the same potential clearance problem as yours -- when viewed from below, the rails narrow in a "\ /" shape as they approach the nose...and this part overhangs the seatpost's upper pivot link. When the saddle is unloaded, it appears there is roughly 1cm vertical distance between the bottom of the saddle rails and the top of the link, and I thought there would be interference. However, even draping my entire body weight on the saddle, I can't get it to happen with the double-blue Medium elastomers installed. I am also not getting the claimed 3in/76mm of travel on the LT, and it will be interesting to see how much I get with the ST. Thudbuster used equal-length links on both posts, so there should be equal travel rearward and downward, meaning 1cm back would also mean 1cm down. I nearly read the electrons off the page at the Thudbuster* and Cane Creek websites (the first is by the inventor; he licensed his design for manufacture/sale by Cane Creek), and I still don't fully understand where their travel figures come from; it may be a diagonal measurement. Given the rising-rate of the elastomer "springs", it may be a theoretical measurement for my mass, from no compression to full-squish, a figure I seem unlikely to achieve. Based on yesterday's riding, so far the LT seems to provide "enough" travel for seated use on some *really* rough fully off-road terrain (I even rode crosswise through a farmer's dried disc-harrowing after the Fall harvest -- like riding across endless speed bumps at the very edge of his field).
Quote
Sorry to hear about the Ortlieb bag problem. But good to know for other readers.
Thanks, Richard. I'll make a separate post (sorry!) asking if anyone knows of a wider mount, but Ortlieb don't seem to offer one, nor does KLICKfix. I really don't want to mill a replacement out of aluminum billet, but will if I need to. I love that underseat bag, and don't want to switch to something else. Fitting an underseat bag seems to be a universal problem with the Thudbusters, though there are some solutions:
http://forums.mtbr.com/general-discussion/thudbuster-seatpost-bag-738027.html
http://www.revelatedesigns.com/blog/index.cfm/2013/10/24/Thudbuster-seatposts-and-Packs
http://www.porcelainrocket.com/2011/10/18/new-booster-rocket-2/

By the way, a nice review of the ST and discussion about using it with a bag can be found here: http://www.texascyclist.com/review-thudbuster-st-short-travel-seatpost/

*Oh! Just remembered...The Thudbuster site ( http://www.thudbuster.com/products.html ) is currently offering both posts at a reduced price.

Quote
I would be interested to hear how you solve the spoke storage problem.
This is pushing me toward the LT as well, 'cos it has a much longer shaft than the ST. I will need to measure my spokes and see if there is enough unobstructed length to accommodate them. I think the expanding rubber plug I made can be pretty readily modified to fit.
Quote
Due to the [SR SunTour's] solid post containing the spring, it is not possible to store spokes in the seat tube.
<nods> I think you might well get by with a capped capsule container for the spokes, Richard, and simply drop it down the seat tube. To extract it, you'd need to remove the post and invert the bike, but that wouldn't be too hard for the infrequent times it is needed. What I have in mind is the clear plastic tube welding rod sometimes comes in. The ends are capped with vinyl caps, much like the ones used as bolt thread protectors. This is the route I might go if I can't get the spokes to fit inside the post as they did with my Thorn/Zoom rigid 'post. the lot should ride pretty quietly with the soft ends and so long as the seat tube itself was not obstructed and still allowed to "breathe" so any entering water didn't collect on a shelf to cause rust, all should be fine.
Quote
Looking forward to future reports on how it goes in the long term!
I'll keep you updated!
Quote
thats one weird looking seatpost there Dan...
Agreed, Anto! It does look very strange...along with the rest of the bike, according to other riders I meet on the road. A fellow caught up to me last evening and proceeded to ask if that was a "Rooleft" hub in the rear wheel and then proceeded to lecture me on how it was so much slower than a cassette/derailleur setup. He told me he didn't have to ride one to know that -- it was "obvious" to anyone who rode any distance! The bike already attracts a lot of attention around here for looking so "different", partly 'cos people can't classify it in their minds. The frame says "MTB", but the drop handlebars say "road bike" and the rest just confuses them. I figure I've gone so far beyond cool, I've come around the other side of cool again. :D What was it Panasonic used as a tagline in the mid-'80s? "Just slightly ahead of our time": http://teamreedblog.blogspot.com/2011/04/frugal-schmoogal.html
Quote
...a lot of it showing as well, its as well you have a sloping top tube.
<nods> In this case, it is fortunate the top tube does slope so much and allows for a long seatpost; that LT requires a *lot* of room to fit: At least 144mm (LT)/98mm (ST) from the saddle rails to the top of the seat clamp. There's just enough room for me to re-mount my motion-detecting alarm and pump peg with the LT. Plenty of room for them and more on the ST.
Quote
oh seriously think i would only use that  for when your going adventure touring but for tarmac touring i would be using the normal seatpost.
;D The Nomad is all about function, jags. I have other bikes "for pretty", but the Nomad is a tool-for-purpose and that makes it among the most beautiful in my eyes in terms of usability for the kinds of places I ride on my tours. The bike is so versatile, I find my tarmac rides turn into MTB journeys as I pass the odd deserted fire road or deer trail and find myself wondering "What's up there?". With the sus-post in place, I can follow whimsy and see...without being "shaken, not stirred" -- and without a headache/neckache!
Quote
sorry Dan i just don't like it but if it does what it says on the tin then who am i to disagree with an expert.
Well, that's honest, and I can honestly say I am astounded at just how well the 'post works at this point. It is a revelation that has positively transformed the Nomad in a way I hadn't thought possible. It made a superb bike that bit better for me. I think it will take awhile for the novelty to wear off; first impressions are surprisingly good! And...when I'm sitting on it, I don't see it.  ;)
Quote
the rest of the bike is stunning.
Thanks! ;D

Further testing will tell the tale on all of this sus-post experimentation, but early indications have been so very encouraging, I thought I'd make the initial posts now with further reports to follow.

All the best,

Dan.
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: jags on October 31, 2013, 08:30:45 PM
Just winding you up Buddy. ;D ;D
your bike just cannot be faulted in any way,  ride it anywhere in any terrain.you should post a serious of photos showing the bike at every angle for us to drool over....
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: Matt2matt2002 on November 03, 2013, 12:15:45 PM
Is see that they make a boot cover. Will you be adding one of those?
Matt
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: Danneaux on November 03, 2013, 03:51:31 PM
Quote
Is see that they make a boot cover. Will you be adding one of those?
<nods> Yep, sure will, Matt. It seems a really good idea to keep the pivots dry and clean to prevent long-term wear and to keep lubrication on the pivots. I just have to decide which 'post to keep, as the elastic neoprene covers are sized and shaped to the model; one won't fit the other. Aesthetically, I wish the covers were all-black, not splashed with white Cane Creek logos.

Business of Life stuff intervened and I haven't had a chance to try the LT or ST since my last post, but a ride on my unsprung blue rando bike was a...shock (sorry!) in comparison. I considered it one of the most comfortable in my stable until now and hadn't realized how often I post on that bike, with 85psi/5.9bar in 700x32C road slicks. The unladen Nomad with 26x2.0 Duremes run at F/R pressures of 29/34psi (2.0/2.3bar) *and* the Thudbuster LT is a revelation. It is like someone rolls out a carpet of fresh, smooth road just ahead of my wheels, yet the bike itself handles as precisely as always. There's the oddest sort of disconnect between what I see and expect to feel and what I am actually feeling. I feel positively spoiled in comparison! It surely is a novelty at this point.

All this has me looking at the ST as a possible solution for a rough-riding road bike in my stable. I've owned that bike since 1980 and love it dearly, but the vibration through the very short chainstays is so harsh I find myself not using it as much as I'd like. An ST might change that.

I'll know better when I get some real mileage in on both 'posts and can see how they differ in practice.

Best,

Dan.
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: mickeg on November 03, 2013, 08:24:57 PM
It is my understanding that the Thudbuster is popular with folding bike owners, the smaller diameter wheels make the bumps feel bigger.

Spoke storage - I have heard that some use a chunk of styrofoam that is cut to slightly larger diameter than the ID of the post, then they run the spokes completely thru the foam allowing part of the spoke to protrude out of the bottom of the foam and seatpost.

I use a wine bottle cork with some electric tape wrapped around it to plug my seatpost where the spokes are.  The cork worked, but dried out so I added the electric tape to make it fit tighter.  Thus, I have not had a reason to try the foam option.
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: Danneaux on November 03, 2013, 09:09:28 PM
Quote
It is my understanding that the Thudbuster is popular with folding bike owners...
Hi mickeg!

<nods> I can see where it would be helpful; the smaller-diameter wheels might have the same tire profile, but would be more likely to "fall" into potholes and such, making the impact more noticeable to the rider. When I designed my small-wheeled Folder, I made sure to include front and rear suspension for this very reason. I'd considered a sus-post, but even the telescopic ones would have added height to the folded bicycle, so wasn't possible in my case.

As for spoke storage, your suggestions are all good. A quick glance at the ST post looks like there's not enough length available for the spokes, but the LT showed promise before I installed it. Now, I need to remove it long enough to measure...a hard task when i'm having fun using it! I *think* it will work, but won't know for sure till I try actually measure the length of the inside cavity available for storage. The fore-and-aft flat spots caused by butting won't be a problem; I can always shave/sand the rubber in the little expanding plug I made for the Sherpa and Nomad's rigid Thorn/Zoom seatposts and can fit a slightly smaller compression washer up-top for clearance. If the lot won't fit inside, then I'll need to adopt something very much like you propose.

I'm so looking forward to fully testing both seatposts. At this point, I can't imagine using all 3inches/76mm or available travel on the LT 'post. I seem to be actively using about half that and find it plenty. Its actual shock absorption seems to be just fine for handling the usual obstacles that had caused me problems. For example, a maintenance-needy section of asphalt bike path nearby is crisscrossed by root heaves the size of my forearm. A couple weeks ago, I hit it at dusk going about 9mph/15kph and was really jolted. Now, I feel it through my bent forearms but sort of float over it at the rear. How to describe the LT's effect? Well, it is like the difference in a small boat between sharp wind-driven, choppy waters versus ocean swells. Both move the boat an equal amount, but the latter is far less abrupt.

Itching to get back to seatpost testing, but it'll have to wait till midweek....

Best,

Dan.
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: George Hetrick on November 03, 2013, 09:14:02 PM
Dan, there appear to be several lengths of Thudbuster -- what exactly did you get (since I also have a Nomad MkII)?

Thanks.
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: Danneaux on November 03, 2013, 10:09:15 PM
Quote
what exactly did you get...?
Hi George!

The ST is 351mm (as listed by REI and as measured by myself, from base to clamp-center along the centerline of the shaft at the side).

The LT is listed by REI as 400mm. It is in the bike at the moment, but that looks about right when comparing the side-by-side photo I attached a few posts back, where there appears to be about 2in/50mm difference between the ST and LT. I will be sure to measure, check, and report as my trials progress.

While my first impressions are stellar and far exceed expectations, I have not done thorough trials yet nor have I tried the ST for comparison. At the moment the LT seems unimprovable for my purposes, but I really have nothing to compare it to except my rigid seatpost(s) and the telescopic- and hinged-elastomer 'posts on the tandem, which don't work nearly as well. The tandem stoker's telescopic 'post has a lot of stiction, changes the effective saddle height, and wobbles disconcertingly side-to-side. The hinged one for the tandem captain soaks up very little road shock and rotates the saddle backward, so the saddle nose has to be angled down slightly or Terrible things happen. In contrast, the Thudbuster keeps the saddle level, has no discernible stiction, there is no wobble or noise, and effective saddle height remains constant, though one's position behind the BB varies (which is why I am fine-tuning my fore-aft placement a little bit to allow for this).

I had thought I might bob up and down a lot when pedaling on the LT, but it hasn't happened. For my fast-light cadence, the LT remains largely unaffected by pedaling though it is constantly working to some degree in response to road surface irregularities. The bike itself feels the same, but the ride sure is different. When I was a kid, I loved riding one of those plastic-pony hobby horses mounted on springs in a steel frame (see pic attached below). When Ol' Paint and I got really going, we'd skitter across the floor and I would sort of lean backwards against the spring tension and pretend we were competing in a rodeo. The Nomad with LT seatpost feels the closest to that I can recall in my 53 years -- but without the uncontrolled bounce. Yee-haw! Apparently one can go home again....  :D

My sister saw me ride the bike through my backyard ( :o ) and said it reminded her of the jockeys in horse races -- the jockey floating serenely above a frantically working horse. I don't think the LT is a substitute for a long-travel full-sus MTB for those taking big drops, but it surely helps in soaking up the sharper, smaller 1-2in/25-50mm lower-speed bumps that were really bothering me and I have ended each rough-surface test ride feeling much fresher thanks to the LT sus-post.

I'll try to get some video of all this before I'm done. I'm certainly having a lot of fun.

If you're considering one of these two seatposts, I'd hold off buying for a couple weeks till I get a chance to wring them out a bit. Because of limited clearances for the LT, I'm receiving more inquiries about how the ST works, and I want to try it myself. I should know more after some back-to-back comparisons and perhaps some elastomer swaps and preload adjustment (the last a feature on the LT only). I'm happy to take measurements for whoever needs them.

All the best,

Dan.
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: George Hetrick on November 03, 2013, 10:39:53 PM
Awesome response, as always, Dan.

I'll wait for your results.
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: Danneaux on November 09, 2013, 01:42:59 AM
Hi All!

Next installment in Danneaux's Sus-Seatpost Saga...

Here's the Executive Summary following extensive empirical comparative testing in a variety of terrain and conditions:

For me in my intended use, the Thudbuster LT has it all over the ST. For little additional weight it is far more tunable, quieter, and has much greater travel than the ST; taken together, this makes it a more versatile suspension seatpost for the money provided one has the clearance to accommodate the greater stack height. It really works well at reasonable speeds over bumps 1-2in/25-50mm in height and doesn't bob if ridden by a cyclist spinning with a smooth, fast, "round" cadence and can be effectively locked-out on smooth roads using an even pedaling technique. It will bob/bounce to a greater or lesser degree if one is a "masher" riding with pistonlike vertical stokes at a slow cadence.

In contrast, in my trials I found the Thudbuster ST to be much more comfortable than my Thorn/Zoom rigid large layback seatpost in all circumstances -- but not as much as the LT and not enough for me. It did not meet my goal of sufficiently attenuating bumps off-road or on very rough surfaces, but was very nice on rough-surfaced pavement including that bane of American road cyclists, chip-seal. It nicely softens bumps and irregularities .5 - .75in/12.5-25mm in height. The ST is largely immune to pedaling style and I think would be much better suited to a "masher".

I would say if one has the room to accommodate it, the LT is the preferred choice and will accommodate the greatest range of road surfaces, including off-road at reasonable (i.e. slow and touring) speeds. If space is limited and you only wish to "take the edge off" rough pavement as Thudbuster claim, then the ST would likely be a worthwhile substitute to a rigid post. Mine was noisy, however, and I put this down to the elastomers being made of rubber and formed so they are self captive within the parallelogram linkage and edge-actuated. Where the urethane-damped LT was bolt-captive, end-loaded and silent, larger bumps made the ST say "Squodge-squodge-squodge" a bit like a rubber squeegee drying a window. I didn't add (silicone or other) lubricant to the elastomers of either 'post, choosing instead to test them as-delivered, though I realize lubrication of pivots and elastomers is a required part of regular long-term maintenance.

Why the difference?

Again, in my own experience and testing with my two samples, I found I am getting nowhere near the published amount of travel -- and it is still alright. I weigh 172lb/78kg, appropriate for the "Medium" elastomers supplied with each 'post. Having tried combinations of the next softer and firmer samples included with each 'post, I feel the Medium is the best combo for me -- well-damped to prevent bouncing while remaining comfortable. Both 'posts reacted similarly within their respective available travel.

The difference between them is down to the available travel (and to a lesser extent, the medium used to make the elastomers). No suspension can really eliminate bumps, they're still there, of course. Holding constant for speed and weight, what suspension does is attenuate the bumps, spreading out the force over time so they don't feel as abrupt. Given the bumps remain the same, the ST has less distance and damping material to absorb and slow them, so the bumps feel less well-damped to the rider.

I never came close to bottoming-out either 'post and I never had a conflict between the linkage and the rails of my Brooks B.17 saddle.

I found I never approached the published amount of travel for either seatpost. It is extremely difficult to measure actual travel while riding, so I made a little test rig with a hard rubber bead on a shaft to serve as a stop-marker when each 'post was at full compression; the actual measurement is in a diagonal from the steerer, so is a combined measurement of downward and rearward travel consistent with how the 'post's linkage works to absorb shock transmitted from the rear wheel when it hits a bump. My measurements show I am consistently compressing the ST about .5-.65in/12-16.5mm and the LT about 1.0-1.25in/25-32mm in heavy use. Curious to learn how CaneCreek got their published travel measurements, I emailed them and received the following reply...
Quote
There is really no full travel on the Thudbuster- it just varies based on how soft or firm you want the ride to be.  If you want to experiment [for my given weight], trade one of the blue elastomers out for a gray elastomer and see how that works.
I suspect the published travel is the total amount available without elastomers; in other words, the total "potential" travel. With elastomers installed, the potential is still there but isn't fully realizable 'cos the elastomers damp and prevent full compression thanks to their rising rate (they show every indication of becoming stiffer as they compress).

In any event, in my use each post fully accomplished its stated "mission" and made riding noticeably more comfortable by absorbing and distributing the effect of bumps through a combination of geometry, link length, and elastomer compression. I don't think more travel would have given a better result. CaneCreek/Thudbuster suggest a rider can use harder elastomers but should not use those for less than their weight. Given my weight and 45 back angle (which affects weight on the saddle), I have leeway to use a half-softer grey/blue combo on the LT and can adjust the preload bolt, but would be limited to only the Middle elastomer on the ST with no further adjustment possible. Heavier riders please note: The ST is limited to 250lb/113kg. I don't see a similar note on the LT.

The difference in travel also affects saddle placement to a degree. I found the equal-length parallelogram linkage meant the distance between saddle and BB really varied little if at all throughout the available range of travel. However, as noted in a previous post, the rider's position behind the bottom bracket can still vary as a function of the linkage's downward-and-rearward travel. This is important because it is generally a bit easier to spin at a high cadence if one is closer to the BB and it is possible to generate a bit more torque if you're behind the BB a bit. I found the LT's longer links and greater sag under my weight meant I needed to move the saddle forward about 5-7.5mm to compensate compared to my rigid post. The ST required no such adjustment.

So which is "better"?

Neither, either, and both. The "best" is the one most suited to conditions and user requirements and depends in part on the bicycle's frame size and design; the shorter ST can be used on far more bicycles 'cos the suspension mechanism requires less room than the LT.

In terms of preference, I like the compact appearance of the ST much better and I really like the silence, response, and greater travel of the LT. For those needing to fine-tune saddle position, the LT's greater link length and inclination allows one to get the saddle further rearward than the ST even though they use the same clamp.

I'm thinking of someday fitting an ST to one of my road bikes that has a really harsh ride. I think I'd ride the bike more with an ST than I do now, simply because it would be that much more comfortable.

Why'd I choose the LT for my needs?

The LT is the sus-post that will remain on my Nomad Mk2. It is a true expedition touring bike -- just what I needed -- and adding weight makes the ride smoother. It is simply such a nice bicycle I want to also ride it unladen on the rougher tracks it excels on, making it a sort of MTB for my purposes, the rough equivalent of a dual-sport motorcycle. The same stiff frame that carries weight so well often makes the ride uncomfortably harsh for me when hitting bumps unladen on really rough pavement, on poor gravel roads, and off-road. Adding the Thudbuster LT has nicely addressed all my concerns with no compromise while carrying a load or on smooth pavement. I can lock-out the post simply by standing when needed, and I always do on larger bumps to ease larger shocks to me and the bicycle. I take exceptional care of my equipment, appreciating fully the need for reliability and knowing what a breakdown would mean in the isolated areas I tour alone. The LT does not make the rigid Nomad the equivalent of a full-sus downhill or freeride rig, and I'm not going to "case" jumps in any event. Instead, it makes an already ideal expedition bike into a more ideal all-'rounder to use comfortably and enjoyably on my unladen day rides. I think it will also prove beneficial when touring fully-loaded, allowing me to remain seated on the smaller bumps I would otherwise have to stand for and I expect to end the day less fatigued as a result.

I really like how the bike itself remains unaltered; the only difference is a far more comfortable ride with no loss of handling precision or load capacity.

I am faster on the bike with either sus-post than I am with the rigid one, simply because I don't have to slow as much for bumps to remain comfortable and by remaining seated on rough, steep terrain, I achieve better traction at the rear tire. The LT has taken an already great bike and made it even better suited to my needs, more comfortable and more versatile, making it feel like the "next generation" in Nomads. I'm pleased with the result.

...Even though there's resolvable "challenges" in my application

The switch to a sus-post has required some adaptations in other areas. Until I can find time to mill a new rigid bag support from aluminum billet, my Ortlieb Medium underseat bag will ride supported by Ortlieb's quick-release webbing strap kit, intended for Brooks and spring saddles. It works alright but is not to my preference. Fitting spokes inside the ST is not possible and just today I came up with a way to make it possible on the LT (more in a later update). There is room on the LT's lower shaft for my alarm and pump peg, but I will need to find another place for my ring-lock's coiled cable mount. All in all, the LT will be well worth my troubles to adapt based on my thorough comparative testing to date. I'll be sending for the neoprene dust/rain cover for it soonest.

Best,

Dan.
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: John Saxby on November 09, 2013, 04:23:18 AM
Brilliant, Dan!  Thanks, eh.
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: Relayer on November 09, 2013, 09:20:23 AM
Brilliant, Dan!  Thanks, eh.

+1

By the way, I love the term "Danneaux'mad"!   :D

Cheers,
Jim
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: Danneaux on November 09, 2013, 10:16:49 AM
Thanks for the kind words, guys.

Following my sus-seatpost entries, several of you have written to ask me...

What a 45 back angle looks like.
What I mean when I say I sit well within the wheelbase of the Nomad.
How my weight is distributed on the bike.
How the Nomad's sloping top tube compares to a traditional diamond road frame with horizontal top tube.

'Best way I know to answer is with illustrations, so I have attached two below.

The first photo shows where I sit in relation to lines extended vertically through the axle centerlines (showing I do indeed sit well within the wheelbase of the bike) as well as the center (midpoint) of the bike and the center of gravity with me and the bike outfitted exactly as shown. Adding three full 1.5l bottles in the frame cages or a touring load would change weight distribution and center of gravity accordingly.

Center of gravity was measured with two analog scales, one under each wheel directly beneath each axle while at rest on a level surface with my elbow propping me exactly vertically against a wall a measured with a second SkyMounti inclinometer mounted crosswise on the upper Thorn Accessory T-bar. Getting off the scales was...exciting. Center of gravity falls just rearward of the BB center extending vertically just rearward of my shoulder joint.

The second photo is the same except for showing a photo-scaled (same diameter tubing) overlay of a conventional diamond-frame with horizontal top tube superimposed over my size 590M Nomad Mk2. Given my frequent off-road and rough-road use of the bike, I've had many occasions to be grateful for the extra standover clearance allowed by the sloping top tube. The illustration clearly shows the difference at the top tube midpoint where one actually stands ahead of the saddle when not riding.

Best,

Dan.
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: Danneaux on November 09, 2013, 10:35:20 AM
This photo shows my preferred position on all my touring bikes, past photo of Sherpa standing in for the Nomad this time. Handlebar-tops are level with (in the same plane as) the saddle-top and a 45 angle runs through my shoulder and hip joints and another 45 angle connects my shoulder joints and hands when my arms are slightly bent at the elbows to absorb road shock.

Not for everyone, but this makes for a position I find comfortable on 300-400km day rides and on tours, dropping to the lower section of the handlebars as needed for headwinds.

Best,

Dan.
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: Matt2matt2002 on November 09, 2013, 08:43:35 PM
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/ZRQjx0MflEIEgF763K8aPGwiYp_wuyUzT4I-PpbrafQ=w103-h138-p-no)
Great to hear about the new seat post and see the pictures of the set up.
May we also see the same for your original mount?
Matt
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: Danneaux on November 11, 2013, 07:41:16 AM
Quote
Great to hear about the new seat post and see the pictures of the set up.
May we also see the same for your original mount?
Hi Matt!

I do have one wearing my red felt cowboy hat and riding Ol' Paint the hobby horse early in my Fourth year, but it is not ready to hand.

However, I have some stand-ins that get closer to the mark.

First attached photo is me at age 6 in 1966 with my first owned bike, given by a family friend as a hand-me-down after his kids outgrew it. I think it was a Western Flyer. A fine bike; note the comfort 'bars, mudguards, and rear touring rack. The tires would occasionally pick up a thorn or two, putting me well on my way to owning a much better sort of Thorn.

Second photo shows I've refined my position since, but the markups show I was riding "well within the wheelbase" even then!

Third photo shows me at age 8 in 1968 (for those doing the math, I'm currently 53, digits which added together in Dan's Birthday Math* equals...8 ) with my Schwinn Sting-Ray, purchased second-hand from my father's co-worker after his son outgrew it. Please note the mudguards, *dis*comfort 'bars, absence of a touring rack, and the Eunuch shifter option -- ouch! Please note also this was my last bike without drop handlebars and full touring setup. There is a Reason for my subsequent cycling preferences and you're looking at it.  :D

Best,

Dan.
*For those of you dreading the birthdays of advancing years, rejoice! The solution is Dan's Birthday Math. Add the two digits of your age together and you'll have your True Age. Care to revisit halcyon days gone by? You'll have several chances. You'll never age past 18 (age 99 is "really" 9+9=18) and after that, you'll start fresh again (100 or 1+0+0=1). Follow this method and you'll save buying candles for the birthday cake. Endorsed by my 96 year-old father, age 15. ;D
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: triaesthete on November 11, 2013, 09:18:22 AM

I spy the heritage of the Raleigh Chopper in that Sting Ray. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raleigh_Chopper

Dan! What was your father thinking!

 In England in the early 70s there were two types of parents: Those that bought their children Raleigh choppers,and those that didn't because they were "gimmicks". 

My parents even took much persuasion on drop bars as so many kids (so the papers said)  rode into the back of parked cars and skips. Mind you they were right about mudguards!

Thanks for your c of g overlay too. The novel and clear presentation demonstrated clearly to me the need for greater front/rear tyre pressure differential than I had been using based on my assumption of 55/45 rear/front weight distribution. This was clearly incorrect as I probably ride more upright than you.  Very very useful indeed, thanks.

Ian aged 10.
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: mickeg on November 11, 2013, 03:35:00 PM
My bathroom scale is about the same thickness as a common piece of lumber used in construction in USA.  I put one wheel of my bike on the scale, the other wheel on the lumber.  I then put some bricks on the ground that I could stand on to get on the bike, since my top tube was now roughly 40mm higher I needed the bricks.  I did this reasonably close to a building wall, it was an iterative process, I shifted the setup closer or farther from the wall until I had it right.  By leaning against the wall, just barely with almost no pressure on the wall but enough pressure so that I did not fall over, with my hands on the handlebar where I would normally have them when I ride, I could measure the weight on one wheel with me on the bike. Then repeat the process with the scale under the other wheel.  I did this several years ago with my Long Haul Trucker.  When I did that measurement, I got 90 pounds on the front wheel, 150 on the rear. 

At that time I weighed roughly 35 pounds (~15 kg) more than today, but I do not see it as an important reason to repeat this experiment for my new weight.  I also have not repeated it with different bikes since my three touring bikes all have similar length chain stays and similar wheelbase lengths and all three use about the same geometry with drop bars.

Using this article chart for weight with 37mm width tires:
http://www.bikequarterly.com/images/TireDrop.pdf

That correlates to about 68 psi rear and 38 psi front UNLOADED.

If I add a load of 40 pounds rear and 20 pounds front with 37mm tires which is roughly what my camping and touring gear weighs, that correlates to about an additional 16 psig rear and additional 8 psig front, for total of 84 psig rear and 46 psig front.

But, for touring on this bike I usually have run about 65 to 70 psig front, 85 psig rear.  The 37mm tires I use are rated for a max of 87 psig.  In other words doing the math was interesting, but I am not really using the results of the calculations.

I have not redone the calculations for my Thorn bikes, when I did the calculations on the LHT, that was the only touring bike I owned.  And, I usually use 50mm wide or wider tires on the Thorns, I think that the author's selection of 15 percent for tire drop was specific to narrower road tires on pavement, not the wider off road tires that I am more likely to use off of pavement with one of my Thorns.  I did one tour on the Sherpa with 40mm wide tires on pavement, I used about the same pressure on that tour as I have used on tours with my LHT 37mm width tires.
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: Relayer on November 11, 2013, 03:56:46 PM
I'm not sure I would use weight on each wheel to calculate tyre pressures, especially when you end up with far lower pressure on the front; remember your centre of gravity will move forward when you are going downhill.
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: Danneaux on November 11, 2013, 04:47:38 PM
Good methodology and thoughts, mickeg and Relayer!
Quote
I'm not sure I would use weight on each wheel to calculate tyre pressures, especially when you end up with far lower pressure on the front; remember your centre of gravity will move forward when you are going downhill.
I agree; I have found tire pressure did not necessarily correlate directly with weight distribution. After many careful trials, I have settled on F/R tire pressures of 29/34psi or 1.99/2.34bar for riding unladen with the setup shown in the photos above.

I have not yet measured my F/R weight distribution on the Nomad when carrying various touring loads, but have found 45/55psi or 3.1/3.8bar works well for me carrying very heavy loads on very rough ground.

It isn't all about comfort and rolling resistance. Please note Andy Blance's recommended maximum F/R pressures of 53/60psi or 3.65/4.1 bar for 2.0 tires: http://www.sjscycles.com/thornpdf/ThornRavenNomadBroHiRes.pdf pg.6. Fat tires can exert considerable lateral forces on sidewall beads when pumped to high pressures, and this has been known to fracture/split rims, sometimes at the sidewall or right down the center: http://forums.mtbr.com/wheels-tires/cracked-rim-opininon-needed-718410.html

EDIT/Addendum: Below ~29psi in front, I felt like I was "pushing" a too-low tire on pavement when riding unladen (wheelbarrow effect). It would be interesting to see what might happen if I pumped the rear tire from 34psi to perhaps 38psi or 40psi now I have the Thudbuster LT to absorb road shock form the rear. I'll probably stay with what I have, but it will still be fun to experiment when I find time.

Best,

Dan.
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: Danneaux on November 11, 2013, 05:54:33 PM
Hi All!

An addendum to the seatpost trials...

Earlier in my Thudbuster seatpost reviews, I mentioned I wasn't using anywhere near the full published travel and the results were still excellent. Curious to learn how CaneCreek (who build and sell Thudbusters under license) got their published travel measurements, I emailed them and received their reply, as noted. I put the same query to the folks at Thudbuster.com and today brought a very informative reply from Ryan McFarland, inventor and founder of Thudbuster...
Quote
The suspension does move on an arc if you were to measure the distance from top-out to bottom-out, it would measure (along the arc) to nearly 3.5.  If you measure the straight line (rather than the arc) from topout to bottomout, youll get just slightly over 3.  That is a pretty big bump though and youll not want the suspension set so soft that it is using that on small bumps or you will likely hard bottom the mechanism when you hit something bigger.  Like most suspension, you operate in the upper of the travel most of the time and the lower is there when the occasional big hits come.
This is consistent with what I have found in my own trials of the LT version. It continues to work very well for my needs even on extremely rough roads at slow and touring speeds and it is nice to know there is still some "give" remaining under compression in case I get caught out and hit a large unseen bump while seated. I will continue to stand ("post") and ease over larger bumps, of course.

Best,

Dan.
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: Danneaux on November 24, 2013, 01:21:39 AM
Hi All!

Since deciding to keep the Thudbuster LT seatpost, I sent for a neoprene cover for it to keep the pivots clean and free of moisture and wind-blown dirt. These are variously sold as "Crudbusters" or "ThudGloves" but are the same product, with models specific to either the ST or LT seatposts. Pics online show the ST's cover logo reading vertically and the LT cover's logo reading horizontally.

The first one -- via Amazon from a shop I've used successfully in the past -- was an ST cover in an LT-labled zip-top package, and carried the ST-style logo. I returned it for a refund, as it would.not.fit no matter how much I pulled and stretched.

The second one arrived in today's mail, also from a trusted supplier. It also sports the ST-style logo, but the velcro is on the opposite side and the cover "reads" verticaly from the rear, like the engraving on the 'post. With some effort, it slid on with no slack -- it is drum-tight. The velcro goes in the rear, and it does just fit, where the first one didn't come close to fitting the LT's longer links.

I think the first cover was mislabeled and the second sports a revised logo (see attached pics). Once on, all seems well.

I have a support ticket in to Cane Creek to confirm all is well given my cover has the "wrong" logo, but the results are encouraging. Since there seems to be considerable confusion among online reviewers about how to fit these (no instructions or photos are included with the covers), some photos seemed in order.

I  will probably use a black acrylic paint pen to cover the white logo so it will blend in better with my black Nomad.

Best,

Dan.
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: jags on November 24, 2013, 01:41:07 AM
 ;)looks nice and neat dan happy cycling buddy. 8)
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: mickeg on November 24, 2013, 12:27:07 PM
If I did not know better I would think you have a spare tube wrapped around your seatpost.
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: Relayer on November 24, 2013, 03:48:42 PM
Looks good with the cover   8)
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: Danneaux on November 24, 2013, 06:59:51 PM
 :) Thanks for the thoughts on aesthetics, fellows.

I wish there was a way to get the Thudbuster LT's function with the appearance of a conventional seatpost, but the positive difference in ride and usability make the sus-post a winner in function-over-form much like the rest of the bike, which is a tool suited for my specific needs.

I have traditional "randonneur-style" bicycles and touring bicycles in my stable, but the Nomad has evolved to be everything they are not, and excels at its given purpose far better.

I can always grab another bike if I want "faster" or "lighter" or more conventionally "pretty", but the one I'm riding most is still this odd-looking do-anything, go-anywhere-in-all-weather super-duty drop-'bar expedition-tourer-and-road bike-MTB mashup. It is my "hyphen-bike", a Swiss Army knife of go-anywhere versatility. It doesn't really do anything my other bikes cannot; instead, it does those things better for me 'cos it is geared for extremes. That has sometimes come at a cost for lighter, less extreme duty, but things like the sus-'post make it better suited even for unladen use on-road or off.

Regarding the cover, it seems a good idea to keep the pivots protected to ensure longer service life, but I'm not so crazy about adding the flashy logos without the sponsorship money that comes with it. I think I'll go tone-on-tone and black them out for a more subtle appearance to better match the rest of the bike.

I've a few more ideas for the bike and am pondering how best to implement them. Meanwhile, I'll get started on the new spoke-retaining plug, assuming it isn't too cold out in the garage to work. It's been pretty cool at night (24F/-4C this morning), so I may wait till afternoon to turn and shape a new plug, cut it down, and fit it with reduced compression washers. I'll take some pics to show the finished product.

All the best,

Dan. (...who notices the thermometer still isn't cooperating, but sunny skies promise a warmer afternoon)
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: George Hetrick on November 24, 2013, 11:01:03 PM
Thanks for the pictures, Dan. I was putting my cover on backwards, and trying to figure out how to close the velcro tab (which was basically on the top) -- when I saw your picture all became clear.
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: Danneaux on November 25, 2013, 01:09:38 AM
George...

Does your cover have the same logo design and orientation as mine?

All the best,

Dan.
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: George Hetrick on November 25, 2013, 03:25:57 AM
Does your cover have the same logo design and orientation as mine?
A picture is worth 10^3 words ...
(sorry about the orientation problem -- it displays properly locally)

[Rotated photo. -- Dan]
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: Danneaux on November 25, 2013, 03:58:47 AM
Looks wonderful, George, and sets my mind at ease wrt to the unified logo change.

A very thoughtful posting; thanks! I hope yours works as well for you while riding as mine does. Love the thing!

All the best,

Dan. (...who thinks yours looks especially nice with that lovely hole-punched Brooks saddle)
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: Andre Jute on November 25, 2013, 07:04:10 AM
I agree. If Cane Creek want you to advertise their product, they should pay you.
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: Danneaux on November 26, 2013, 01:43:43 AM
Hi All!

Original Thudglove/Crudbuster appears on the left, my tone-on-tone version shown on the right, thanks to an acrylic paint pen designed for marking fabric.

Heard back from Cane Creek, who confirm a labeling change for the LT and -- yes -- this example is the right one. They further informed me the tight neoprene will relax a bit over time and was made tight to prevent sagging.

I added a vinyl thread protector (cap) on the exposed threads of the elastomer's preload bolt to prevent it rubbing through the dead-center front of the cover, which wouldn't have lasted long in use without the extra precaution.

Best,

Dan. (...who prefers the more subtle look)
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: Andre Jute on November 26, 2013, 01:56:16 AM
Much tastier.
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: Matt2matt2002 on November 26, 2013, 11:08:14 AM
Much tastier.
Quite agree.
In the right hand picture what are the straps hanging down? I don't think they are in the left hand picture.
Matt
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: Danneaux on November 26, 2013, 07:28:26 PM
Quote
In the right hand picture what are the straps hanging down? I don't think they are in the left hand picture.
Hi Matt!

Very observant of you! It is just happenstance the straps moved from one pic to the next; they're looped around the rails and can move freely.

The straps are a temporary bodge to allow me to carry my Ortlieb underseat bag until I can find the time to mill a new mounting bracket from aluminum billet to mount it rigidly/"properly". It is cold outside at the moment, which means it is also cold in my unheated garage, and I duhwanna mill cold aluminum with cold fingers at -5C.  :-\

Best,

Dan.
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: Danneaux on November 29, 2013, 11:33:38 PM
Hi All!

Seeing the weather forecast is calling for nighttime lows of -10C/14F this next week -- and my unheated garage workshop isn't going to get any warmer -- today seemed like a good time to tackle the problem of retaining my spokes in the Nomad's new Thudbuster LT.

It appeared the 'post was too short for the spokes, but the solution proved surprisingly easy once I got my mind wrapped around the problem. The Rohloff hub spokes fit okay, but not the longer ones for the SON28 (New) dynohub, and I couldn't accommodate more than 3 spokes with the nipples attached in any case.

Why?

The post is forged before it is machined, and the shaft-end with the lower link pivots has been machined so it ends in a dome shape ( /\ ) internally. All six of my spare spokes fit only without the nipples attached and only if the threaded ends were all crowded into this dome.
 
The solution was to package the nipples separately into a little zip-top bag, then bundle the threaded ends of the spokes into a single vinyl thread protector (cap) to prevent thread/'post damage and still allow the lot to crowd into the center dome of the upper 'post end. I just used a cutoff section of thread protector to bundle the spoke heads so they wouldn't rattle.

To keep everything in place, I then took a No. 5 (1-1/16in) rubber stopper, line-bored it, turned it down to 23.5mm OD and then parted it at 9mm thickness before evenly sanding flats to reduce the plug to 20mm at its narrowest to accommodate the front/rear butts Thudbuster use to keep the post light yet strong (the 'post is not round inside, so a round plug won't work). I then fitted a 5mm buttonhead machine screw, a couple stainless fender washers to compress the plug, a pair of internally-toothed lockwashers, and a stainless wing nut rethreaded to 5mm x .08mm. I then hammered the last thread closed to make the wing nut loss-proof and...done.

The spokes ride silently with no rattles and the plug is very secure and won't fall down the seat tube even on rough roads. I left the compression bolt threads a little long so the unscrewed wing nut makes a nice handle to easily extract the plug. With the plug removed, the spokes simply pull out along with the little sack containing the nipples.

Nice to have a "clean" solution for carrying spokes with the Thudbuster LT. This same method worked well for Sherpa and the Nomad's previous rigid Thorn/Zoom long-layback 'posts and I wanted the same for the sus-post. This method would also work with a Thudbuster ST provided the spokes extend through holes drilled in the rubber plug. One shouldn't need spare spokes very often with well-built wheels, and this solution keeps them clean, unbent, and ready to hand when needed, requiring only the seatpost clamp bolt and the wingnut be undone to access them.

By the way, care should be used to avoid disturbing the paper sticker inside the seatpost, as this is the serial number Thudbuster use for warranty validation and for determining service parts. At 9mm thickness, the plug clears the sticker nicely.

Best,

Dan.
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: StuntPilot on November 30, 2013, 06:44:57 PM
Still love my SR Suntour suspension post Dan!  ;) But you got me there - nowhere to store my spare spokes.  :(
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: Danneaux on November 30, 2013, 07:54:13 PM
Quote
Still love my SR Suntour suspension post Dan!
And I can see why! It was top of my short-list, but I realized it would have some issues for my use, and I needed more travel for my needs. I do very much like the SR-Suntour's use of an adjustable spring. It remids me very much of the Tamer parallelogram seatpost:
http://www.amazon.com/Tamer-Pivot-Plus-Suspension-Seatpost/dp/B00A214PR6
http://www.gtgtandems.com/images/pivotplus.pdf

The new BodyFloat design looks very promising for road use, but the price is substantial at present, equal to 2.3 Thudbuster LTs. the cost may drop a bit in full production and a MTB version with 3in travel is promised in the future: http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/188418586/bodyfloattm-an-evolution-in-bicycle-comfort-and-pehttp://www.bikerumor.com/2012/10/04/50157/
http://www.cirruscycles.com/

I did a test ride on an Allsop Softride sus-beam bike once. It felt a bit like the Thudbuster LT, but different.
Quote
But you got me there - nowhere to store my spare spokes.
Aw, there's lots of possibilities left! ;) Spokes can be bundled and put into straight handlebars (but not the lovely Torla's comfort 'bars) or down the uncut steerer if one uses a removable star-fangled nit (SFN) like the separatley available one from Tour Terrain (provided one is not also using a TT The Plug in its many variations). The top run of tubing on the Thorn Expedition rear rack is *just* shy of being able to take a spoke head, and it would be a bit tough getting one out again. For a while on one of my other bikes, I used cable ties to fasten a thinwall aluminum tube lengthwise under the rack platform, then ends closed with vinyl caps. It worked very nicely for carrying spare spokes and weighed very little.

All the best,

Dan.
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: Danneaux on December 01, 2013, 01:42:45 AM
Hi All!

I took the Nomad out on an unexpectedly warm (55F/13C), clear day today with plenty of sunshine. Stopped by the banks of the Willamette River not far from home, setup the little tripod, squeezed off the shot below, and thought I'd share it with you.

Best,

Dan.
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: Znook on December 01, 2013, 01:52:44 AM
Cor, wishing I was there Dan! It does look very nice, and I'm not talking about the scenery  ;D
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: John Saxby on December 01, 2013, 11:08:12 AM
Quote
an unexpectedly warm (55F/13C), clear day today with plenty of sunshine.

Thanks, Dan -- great foto of you, the boike, the river, and splendid fall weather!  On the other side of the ledger, just had a note from a friend at home, saying that in the wake of the first big winter storm of the year, there are 30 cms of snow in the Gatineau hills, and the X-country ski trails are open. Not much cycling there for a while, then, for this rider at least--will have to get my skis tidied up in a couple of weeks' time.
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: Matt2matt2002 on December 01, 2013, 06:24:21 PM
Excellent picture Dan. You always set the bar pretty high and this is no exception.
Matt
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: jags on December 01, 2013, 07:20:48 PM
class photo not sure which is the sexiest you or the bike. ;)
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: Danneaux on December 01, 2013, 08:42:46 PM
Thanks for the kind words, All! I think it is the running to beat the self-timer that's keeping me in shape, not the riding!

All the best,

Dan.
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: jags on December 01, 2013, 09:06:27 PM
ah dan what about a video.
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: Danneaux on February 02, 2014, 03:07:05 AM
Hi All!

A lovely, sunny day today in between cold spells, so I made the most of it with a nice ride on the Nomad despite only 3 hours' sleep last night (I've been working on some Big Projects with deadlines).

I think the lack of sleep was a factor in losing one of my brand-new (my first ride with them!) high-viz cycling gloves off the bridge and into a tributary of the north-flowing Willamette River. Grrr! >:( My own fault, too 'cos I got careless. The gloves didn't work so well for setting my BikeBrake ( http://www.bikebrake.com/ ) parking brake bands, so I took the gloves off and tucked them under the strap atop my rack pack. When I leaned the bike to set the parking brake, the top glove slid off the bike, over the guardrail, and right into the water some distance below. If it doesn't snag on something, it will be in Portland in about three more days, then the Columbia River and out to the open sea of the Pacific. :P Not exactly good news, but I now know the glove will float like a little high-viz boat. :D

Just goes to show...if you can get out on the bike, it's always worth it, even at the cost of a lost item. I'm glad I went.

Best,

Dan.

Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: jags on February 02, 2014, 02:26:04 PM
Ah i hate when something like that happens.still have glove will travel 8)
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: Matt2matt2002 on February 02, 2014, 02:59:56 PM
I usually find one glove but on my last trip to Fort William I was lucky enough to find a pair!
Middle of no where and my size to boot.
Guess someone's bad luck was my good fortune?
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: jags on February 02, 2014, 04:45:58 PM
i found 20 euro coming out of a graveyard i was dead lucky.thats the truth. ;D
going to wash me bike ;)
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: Chris M on February 02, 2014, 07:44:16 PM
That's a great looking bike Dan, the spoke reflectors caught my eye, might have to get some for my commute in the dark.

Chris
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: Danneaux on February 02, 2014, 08:07:34 PM
Hi Chris!

Thanks for the kind words.

I posted a video of the spoke reflectors in action here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NOxhVRqw2bI

They really *do* show up well in car headlights. The light source used in the video was just an LED flashlight.

Best,

Dan.
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: Chris M on February 02, 2014, 08:15:23 PM
Many thanks Dan! The 'band of light' would be hard to miss for a motorist I think. I'm guessing that as long as they are 3M reflective material they're all pretty much the same?

Chris
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: Danneaux on February 02, 2014, 08:23:44 PM
Quote
I'm guessing that as long as they are 3M reflective material they're all pretty much the same?
Yes. The big difference seems to be the length and the number included in the package. When I checked the EU code, they are only allowed to substitute for "regular" wheel reflectors when a full complement is run, i.e. 32 spoke reflectors on a 32-spoke wheel.

I've received a number of compliments from motorists while stopped at traffic lights. Apparently, these things also reflect well off-axis, so motorists can see them as they approach from ahead and behind so long as the reflectors can peek out from beyond the tires.

Best,

Dan.
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: Chris M on February 02, 2014, 08:28:50 PM
Cheers Dan, just found some on Ebay that I'll be ordering.
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: Danneaux on March 20, 2014, 07:26:39 PM
Taken just moments ago from the saddle of my Nomad. This is one of my local bike paths, just 1.6km from home. Spring at last, despite this morning's sub-freezing temps.

Best,

Dan.
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: Znook on March 20, 2014, 07:35:52 PM
Dan when can I come over?  ;D
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: jags on March 20, 2014, 07:51:07 PM
lovely photo dan very pretty,
it's freezing here rained most of the day snow forecase for the weekend  :o

roll on summer.

jags.
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: Danneaux on March 20, 2014, 08:39:03 PM
Quote
Dan when can I come over?
Anytime, but call first so I'll be here and can pencil you in for the guided tour!
Quote
it's freezing here rained most of the day snow forecase for the weekend
Not.fair. *Especially* the "snow" part. I'll set the big electric fan in the drive and blow some of this goodness over Drogheda way.

All the best,

Dan.
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: alfie1952 on March 20, 2014, 09:56:39 PM
Dan,

Beautiful photograph of  spring flowers on a lovely day, I can almost smell them from here.

Regards.


Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: Relayer on March 20, 2014, 10:04:30 PM
Beautiful place to cycle Dan, don't think I've ever seen a prettier bike path.
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: Danneaux on March 20, 2014, 10:36:57 PM
This short stretch is the jewel in the local path system; not all portions are as snazzy or well-tended as this! Rexius ( http://www.rexius.com/company_history.html ) seem to be under contract with the City of Eugene to maintain this portion of the path system...or perhaps by the neighborhood association in this particular area, as the same trucks and personnel seem to do both and maintain the pretty fountains and reflecting ponds shown in earlier photos in this thread.

This scene is a very happy contrast to the weather here just a little while ago, with lots of freezing fog that froze on-contact with the road surface. Like cycling on an ice rink. I was very glad for the Nomad's 2in Duremes instead of the rando bike's 32mm road slicks. A look at this earlier photo brings out the "B-r-r-r-s" in me.

Best,

Dan.
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: jags on March 21, 2014, 01:11:03 AM
oh be carefull on those roads dan especally at the speed you travel. ;)
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: Matt2matt2002 on April 28, 2014, 12:22:50 PM
That last picture reminds me of the Haar we get rolling in off the sea around Aberdeen.
Saw it last week but photos didn't pick it out too well.
Amazing to see it a cummin at ya.

Matt
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: Danneaux on May 06, 2014, 01:42:38 AM
Hi All!

My upcoming tour (though it won't take place on the Nomad) has me thinking I really should assign a better name to this wonderful bike than just "The Nomad", though that precedent seems to hold sway across my stable -- or has, until recently; most share "The" as a first name.

The red tandem (told'ya!) was recently christened "Reddy", 'cos it is both red and um, "ready" for anything.

I'll temporarily apply that name to AndyBG's lovely RavenTour in my use so it will always be ready for my upcoming tour.

This morning, The Nomad's new moniker came to me in a flash. I *think* it is permanent, but will try it on for size awhile before making it stick.

It is...

Seymour, pronounced "SeeMore".  :D

According to the online baby naming sites, Seymour was originally Norman in origin and refers to someone from the St. Maur region, just up the Seine river from Le Havre. I have ancestors from there (they seem to be from everywhere in England, Scotland, Ireland, France, Germany and Hungary), so that's a nice touchstone. I also at one time thought Jane Seymour was pretty spiffy so there's that too, I suppose.

Mostly, this is the bike that will always let me "see more" -- whether it be a logging road, goat trail, gravel road, rough ballast, or almost any other surface mountains to desert that requires some deliberate effort to get away from the mainstream and main roads: It is my expedition touring bike, so the name seems apt.

Best,

Dan. (...and -- maybe! -- Seymour)
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: Andybg on May 06, 2014, 05:26:08 AM
Hi Dan

It seems like a very fitting name for a bike that really is going to take you everywhere. I am sure the Red Raven Tour will not mind taking up a pseudonym for you trip.

I have on my list today to give her a quick clean and fettle so I will trial test the name and see how she responds


Andy
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: Danneaux on May 06, 2014, 05:36:17 AM
Andy!

I didn't want to seem presumptuous and confer a name if she already had one, but it seemed a Good Idea to call her *some*thing specific. I sure don't mind calling her by her given name; we might get on even better for it!  :D
Quote
I have on my list today to give her a quick clean and fettle so I will trial test the name and see how she responds
Many, many thanks, Andy.

So looking forward to all ahead...

All the best,

Dan.
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: David Simpson on May 06, 2014, 03:20:36 PM
Dan, I was surprised to find that you didn't have a name for your Nomad yet.  When I built my Nomad last year, I must have read this thread a dozen times, to get good ideas for my bike.  (By the way, thanks for all the info.  I'm hoping to post photos of my bike in the next few days.  You'll see your influence on my bike.)  I knew that you named your bikes, and it never occurred to me that you hadn't named Seymour yet.

Near where I live (Vancouver), one of the local mountains is Mt Seymour.  (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mount_Seymour)  There are ski runs near the top, and so there is a road up the mountain.  If you are ever in Vancouver with your bike, and feel like exercise, it's a good climb, although I admit that I have never done it.  It climbs 1000m (3000 ft) over about 13km (8 miles) -- about an 8% average.

- Dave
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: Danneaux on May 06, 2014, 05:53:42 PM
Hi Dave!

So looking forward to seeing photos of your own Nomad in the gallery. Isn't it amazing how the same basic frame can be built-up in so many different ways, each resulting in a bike personalized to the owner's needs and desires?

Mount Seymour...and just 681km/423mi north of me -- how tempting! I like climbing, so this sounds like the perfect Someday challenge to See More!  :D

All the best and happy riding, Dave.

Dan.
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: Danneaux on March 06, 2015, 12:04:23 AM
Hi All!

Lovely weather here today, so I decided to perform a little upgrade on the Nomad out in the sunshine on the back patio. Today's addition is a pair of RaceFace Crank Boots: http://www.raceface.com/components/parts/crank-boot/crank-boots/ These come in two sizes, small and large. These are the large. The small would not fit over the ends enough for the pedal openings to line up.

These protect the ends of the crank arms from rock and log strikes when pedaling off-road an on very rough roads, so a good precaution where I often take the Nomad. Far better to be proactive than reactive in this case, so on they went. They are a Class B fit on my Deore crankarms, but came out alright with the slightest persuasion from a heat gun to soften the boot just enough to center. The silver ring you see in the pedal socket is a thin stainless steel Wheels Mfg. pedal washer, standard equipment on all my bikes to prevent gouging of the arm around the socket face. The silvery goo on the threads is anti-seize compound, also standard procedure.

Happy days!

Best,

Dan.
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: Danneaux on March 06, 2015, 12:39:54 AM
Hi All!

Much as I love my stealthy Nomad, there's times when I do want to stand out a little more -- when riding at night in heavy commuter traffic, for example.

For those occasions, I strap a Jog-A-Lite Reflexite safety triangle to my black rack pack and wear another 'round my waist if it isn't fastened 'round my handlebar bag to be seen from the front. I've used safety triangles (modeled after the US Slow Moving Vehicle symbol or an inverted Yield sign) since 1977, but upgraded last Spring to the Reflexite tape models. What a difference! Like night and ehm, day!  Cheesy The new ones really do show up much, much better than past versions. See: http://www.amazon.com/Bud-8512A-Jogalite-Reflective-Symbol/dp/B0006IW554 ...and... http://jogalite.com/

Best,

Dan.
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: nztony on March 06, 2015, 01:34:08 AM
Dan

I love your Jog-A-Lite Reflexite safety triangle very much. I'm a Hi Viz convert and I do anything I can to stand out on my daily rides and I'm off to Amazon very shortly to buy one of these for my Nomad.

I have just purchased a super bright rear light to use during the day as I ride along a busy stretch of road frequently in and out of our capital city (Wellington) here in New Zealand. Hope District 3 Rear Light: http://www.hopetech.com/product/district-plus-rear/

It is summer here but we are having a heavy rain day today, so I am out the door in the next few minutes (it is pouring down but it is warm) to give my new light its maiden ride.

Tony
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: Danneaux on March 06, 2015, 02:58:34 AM
Hi Tony!

I think that's a terrific light for daytime conspicuity. While I generally prefer something with more surface area at night so car drivers can better judge their distance from me, I think point-source illumination may have it all for daytime visibility. Against bright sunlight, point-source cuts through where more diffuse options just fade away. It can be surprisingly difficult to get a good taillight bright enough for daytime/cloudy/rainy day use, but I think you've found one, Tony.

My home in Eugene, Oregon is at the southern end of the Willamette Valley, so trips "out" are over very tall hills and then mountains on three sides (E, W, S) and the Valley opens up wide and flat going North. There's great cycling in almost any direction. Unfortunately, I sometimes have to pass through very heavy commute traffic. I also have get past four freeway on- and off-ramps and two of the area's most dangerous intersections if I go North.

When I pull up beside drivers at traffic lights I'm always surprised at how much they're doing *besides* driving -- watching television on their sun visor monitors, buying things on eBay or texting on their phones, reading the newspaper or books, applying makeup, shaving, and so forth. I feel I have to really stand out to be seen at all.

For those occasions, I want to show up as much as possible in these areas, daytime, dusk, or dark. This means *lots* of high-viz neon yellow in daytime and loads of reflective stuff at night and lights galore. Drivers here seem to recognize high-viz yellow-green = Daytime Cyclist and blinking lights = Nighttime Cyclist. I've outfitted the blue rando bike and the Nomad with Planet Bike 2-watt Blaze2 white blinkys (I think of them as light cannons) and the Cyos. The rear of each bike has a Toplight Line Plus and at least one PDW Radbot 1000 1-watt LED blinky. The rando bike has two plus the Topight Line Plus. I supplement these with as many as two more Blackburn Mars 4.0 red blinkys. I've got the 3M spoke reflectors and pedal reflectors as well as the reflective spots and trim on my clothing and shoes. In cold weather I wear a Sugoi high-viz helmet cover and I think that helps as my head is above most car roofs and inline with most drivers in pickup trucks and SUVs.

When I got the bike, I pondered the beautiful yellow, as you have. After a lot of thought, I decided to go with black as I had on Sherpa. I figured the surface area of the frame was a fraction that of my clothing, so decided I would adjust my visibility using a combination of clothing, lights, and reflectors.

While I love desert camping, I do have to use care when camping well off-road, as a favorite nighttime pursuit of "desert runners" in trucks is to head out cross-country at breakneck speed, sometimes chasing jackrabbits and coyotes. I'm hoping on those occasions, my reflectors will help me be seen before I get flattened. For stealth camping near roads, the Nomad's matte black is ideal for keeping me hidden if I use care to hide the reflectors or park the bike off-axis to passing car headlights.

By the way, the "real" Refexite is sure a lot more reflective than similar appearing products. Take a look at the photos below for a quick comparison of seemingly identical safety triangles.

All the best,

Dan.
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: mickeg on March 06, 2015, 02:15:52 PM
I do not use pedal reflectors, but wanted something reflective down there that goes up and down as I pedal. Being in a place where people drive on the right side of the road, cars will be to my left and behind.  I put red reflective tape on my left side crank arms on most of my bikes.


Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: in4 on March 06, 2015, 04:44:05 PM
Never mind all that enjoying yourself and 'pimping my Nomad' stuff, get that grass cut!!!!!  :D

I do like those crank boots though. Great idea and simplicity itself.
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: Danneaux on March 06, 2015, 05:26:52 PM
Quote
Never mind all that enjoying yourself and 'pimping my Nomad' stuff, get that grass cut!!!!!
Waitaminnit...there's grass in the backyard?!?  ???  B-bu-but Ian!  :o  There's a bike on the patio!  ;D

...and so we come to the root of the problem...  ::)

 :D

All the best,

Dan. (...who is going out now to start mowing)
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: Danneaux on April 09, 2015, 02:15:18 AM
Hi All!

I just upgraded my Rohloff shifter cover to the newer "wave" design that came out last year.

What a positive difference! I had hoped it might result in less slippery shifting in the pouring rain, but I had not imagined how much it would help when shifting in the dry. The knob movement is more positive and require less effort. I can dial through 9 or 10 gears in one twist, with the shifter mounted to my Thorn Accessory T-bar.

The new wave knob comes with a new o-ring as well, and this should be fitted during installation. Installation took me less than a minute for the entire swap -- just use a thin-bladed screwdriver to live out the steel retaining ring, then pull the old shifter directly off. Apply a dab of grease on the shifter sleeve, then slide on the new cover. It can only register one way, thanks to offset mounting pins. Simply replace the retaining ring and you're done. No need to mess with the cables or adjustment. A really cost-effective upgrade for my Nomad that has me feeling really pleased and happy.

I got my new cover form SJS Cycles, here: http://www.sjscycles.co.uk/rohloff-rubber-grip-for-twistshifter-light-wave-design-8190-prod33789/?geoc=us

Best,

Dan.
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: Danneaux on April 12, 2015, 12:01:17 AM
Hi All!

The incremental Nomad upgrades continue, this time with waterproofed (or at least weather-shielded) USB charging from my ToutTerrain The Plug2+.

Right-angle USB adapters are now available and one of those coupled with a bit of soft but watertight vinyl grommet for gasketing has resulted in a weatherproofed connection that has so far withstood continued wind-driven rain while riding and water poured from a 1.5l bottle without causing interrupted charging through the USB port. Making the unshielded connection from below has made all the difference. The gasketing is squishy enough to prevent water entry even under vibration on rough roads. The gadget being charged is placed under cover in my handlebar bag. The one exception is my Garmin Oregon 600T GPS, which has a weather-shielded connection on the underside so it can be powered or charged in place regardless of weather (I hacked a 12-volt Garmin car charger to salvage the cord and right-angle connector, soldering a USB-A Male connector to the end). If you place a small piece of 12.5mm x 20mm plastic beneath the two AA (rechargable) batteries, they will charge in the 600T so a separate charger is unnecessary. It isn't necessary to purchase the separate and expensive Garmin rechargeable battery pack. I'm still experimenting with Garmin Spanner settings, but I think with this cord, the works might serve as an internal buffer battery. Experiments continue.

These right-angle connectors are available in left/right and up/down configurations from many electronics stores as well as eBay and Amazon for minimal cost. Links to the ones I got are here:
Up/Down: http://www.ebay.com/itm/311329470305?_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
Left/Right: http://www.ebay.com/itm/191442844808?_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

Looking forward to some really foul weather in the next week so I can continue field testing, but results are encouraging so far.

GPS and 1l water bottle removed from their mounts for clarity in the photos below, caught in the sunshine during a brief clearing between storms.

Yes, the gaskets alone might make for a similar result without the 90 adapter, but this does make for a drip loop to prevent water following the cord into the HB bag.

Best,

Dan.
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: mickeg on April 12, 2015, 03:39:52 AM
...
Looking forward to some really foul weather in the next week so I can continue field testing, ...


It is rare when I see that written down by someone that is serious when they say it.
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: Danneaux on April 12, 2015, 04:30:16 AM
Quote
...Looking forward to some really foul weather in the next week so I can continue field testing, ...
<nods> True enough, mickeg, but I really am looking forward to getting the new connectors wet in more "real" riding conditions.  :D  If the modified grommets don't work, I have some blown neoprene foam "donuts" I will be trying as gaskets. This is the same material used in SCUBA wetsuits.

Looking closely, the only real problem with USB charging in wet conditions is the unshielded connectons inherent to the design. If the connectors can be shielded against weather, all will be well. So far -- riding in spitting rain, some brief downpours, and dumping a liter of water from my bottle on the connection, charging continued uninterrupted. After carefully drying the outside then unplugging, there were no signs of water inside.

My B&M e-Werk uses shielded connections with screw threads to extend the charging cables and fit the adapter ends; the actual charging must still occur with gadgets in a sheltered place, like a handlebar bag. The Plug2 is conveniently located atop the steerer...but has an exposed USB connector for actual charging.

I recently bought an upgraded Cinq5 (ToutTerrain's new accessories division, The Plug now bears the Cinq5 logo) weather cap for shielding The Plug's USB connector when it is not charging. Pictures to follow as soon as I get it installed.

All the best,

Dan.
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: mickeg on April 12, 2015, 12:29:09 PM
I still plan to use all of my USB charging gear inside the handlebar bag, but when the weather is good I might have a voltage/amperage readout outside of the bag where I can see it so that I know if current is continuing to flow into the batteries.

Those that want to use a phone for GPS purposes or a USB powered GPS unit like some of the Garmins, I can see where they would need the waterproof connections that you are working on.  For them a exposed plug would certainly be convenient.  And a lot of bike tourists do not use a handlebar bag, so for them a plug like you are experimenting with is almost a required piece of gear.

I suspect that the real issue will not be short term shorting of your current flow, but longer term corrosion in the electronics from water ingress.  If any of the multi-strand wires get wet, capillary action can draw water a short distance along the wires under the insulation, leading to potential longer term corrosion issues.  
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: Danneaux on April 13, 2015, 01:59:08 AM
Hi All!

Fairly heavy rain is predicted for tonight and tomorrow (Yay! for testing purposes), but today was sunny enough for another Nomad upgrade on the back patio.

Today's effort was to upgrade the weather cap for the Tout Terrain The Plug 2+. The original was a silicone plug on a leash that did keep dirt out of the connection, but allowed some water to enter. I never had a problem with rust, but took care to blot the USB port with a cloth before plugging a connector in to charge gadgets or batteries.

Tout Terrain has spun their accessory division off in a new captive department called Cinq5, and most of their gadgets are in the process of rebranding. With the issuance of The Plug 3, Cinq5 has included a more protective weather cap. Because the unit has the same physical dimensions as The Plug 2-series (but very different from the original/1 series), it fits. I got mine from SJS Cycles, here: http://www.sjscycles.co.uk/cinq5-plug-iii-usb-cap-and-ring-prod36912/?geoc=us

Very pleased so far. I also like the tidier appearance.

Best,

Dan.
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: Danneaux on August 10, 2015, 04:32:11 PM
Hi All!

Latest acquisition soon to find a home on Seymour the Nomad: A 1956 South Sudan 5 Ghirsh coin.

Still pondering where and how to mount it. Was thinking about the fork crown or the forward reach of the top Thorn Accessory T-bar, but the latter would require shaping the coin on a die. I'll know better once it arrives (end of week) and can see the color clearly; I'm hoping for silver, but but it may have a slight bronze tinge. Size will be a factor as well.

Best,

Dan.
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: mickeg on August 10, 2015, 11:59:16 PM
To bad you use a USB port built into the stem cap, otherwise you could drill a hole thru the coin and make a fine stem cap out of it if it is big enough.
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: Danneaux on August 11, 2015, 12:01:27 AM
Quote
...otherwise you could drill a hole thru the coin...
Yes, but it would kill the camel, the Nomad would fall into the sand, the supply box would spill open, and all would perish.  :P

 ;D

All the best,

Dan.
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: mickeg on August 11, 2015, 12:03:49 AM
Wow, you responded fast.
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: David Simpson on August 11, 2015, 12:33:20 AM
The dude on the camel does NOT look happy. Perhaps he needs a Thudbuster.

- Dave
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: Danneaux on August 11, 2015, 01:07:01 AM
Camel doesn't look happy, either.  :o

I think he might benefit from a Thudbuster even more than the rider.

Pannier looks sturdy...either Ortliebs or perhaps Carradice. I see the rider is clutching what must surely be a Click-Stand (carbine edition).

All the best,

Dan.
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: Andre Jute on August 11, 2015, 05:50:16 AM
And there's clearly much malignant melanoma in the air.
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: John Saxby on August 11, 2015, 02:54:26 PM
Camel saddles are sooo bloody uncomfortable.  Who's responsible for spreading the romantic mythology?  (TE Lawrence was a bit masochistic about pain, but did everybody else have to buy into it?)  ("Sorry, sir, we can't take it back, just because it hurts yer bum. They're all like that.") (Did Brooks never pursue that market?)

Ummm, back to the thread:  Wonderful image, Dan. To go somewhere near the stem, for sure. Maybe even on its own mount, to be fastened onto the centre of your stem, perhaps via one of the generic Garmin mounts, suitably adapted?  In 2013, visiting Salem, just north of you, I met a guy who had mounted a St Christopher medal in place of the BMW roundel in the centre of the fork crown on his mid-80s airhead, a nice touch, I thought.
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: Andre Jute on August 12, 2015, 04:15:34 AM
... mounted a St Christopher medal in place of the BMW roundel in the centre of the fork crown on his mid-80s airhead, a nice touch, I thought.

Nothing like taking to two wheels on the public roads to give one religion.
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: Matt2matt2002 on August 12, 2015, 10:41:17 AM
Happy birthday.

I believe your Nomad is 3 years old this week?

Celebrating?

Matt
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: David Simpson on August 17, 2015, 05:39:17 PM
Hi Dan --

I've seen the Thudbuster advertised as "Thudbuster Quadra" and just plain "Thudbuster". Since you have one, do you know if they are actually different products, or the same product advertised differently? Which one do you have (if they are different)?

I realize there are LT and ST versions.

Did you get the 27.2mm version to fit your Nomad, using the Thorn shim?

Thanks,
Dave
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: Danneaux on August 17, 2015, 07:53:25 PM
Hi Dave!

I had the same question, and learned the "Quadra" moniker referred to Thudbuster's development of the parallelogram linkage (as opposed to their earlier designs, see: http://www.thudbuster.com/history.html ). Now, regardless of name, they all seem to be simply "Thudbusters" in one of two styles: ST (Short Travel) or LT (Long Travel).

One is not simply a cut-down version of the other. The pivot pins and bushings are essentially the same, but the links differ in length and the elastomers differ greatly. The ST uses a molded, rubbery puck that comes in a predetermined hardness (durometer). The LT uses urethane elastomers that can be stacked in various durometers to fine-tune the action of the post. Both posts offer a sort of rebound control (based entirely on the rebound characteristics of the elastomeric medium), but the LT has a "hard lockout/preload" bolt that allows adjustment of both characteristics. It's longer linkage makes for a more supple ride on larger bumps, and it is more finely tunable. The ST is a more generic suspension option and its more limited travel makes it most suitable for smoothing out road irregularities. I particularly dislike the "buzz" of chip-sealed pavement, and the ST proved to damp that out nicely; same for concrete expansion joints, but it is not so good for absorbing larger irregularities like tree roots, big potholes, and rough gravel ballast on logging roads. The LT excels in those conditions. I've found both 'posts to be quiet in normal operation. Both work nicely with my Brooks B.17 saddles and don't interfere with the Brooks rails.

For the Nomad, I thought long and hard and decided to get the 27.2mm version (same as Thorn originally specs for their rigid 'posts) so I could continue to use the original Thorn-supplied shim. Andy Blance has made a good argument for the shim, saying it makes seizure due to galvanic corrosion less likely. For me, another factor was the ability to quickly switch between rigid and both sus-posts for A-B comparisons during testing. I was skeptical as to how well a TBLT would work for my needs, so I tried the ST also. It helped, but not "enough" for the MTB-like conditions I ride, where shock was worst when unladen. Once I fitted the LT there was no looking back and it has remained in place ever since. I would have preferred the LT model even for my road bikes, but their horiziontal top tubes only have enough clearance for the ST model, which has proven to be a great improvement over rigid seatposts for my general use of those bikes. For them, I ordered the specific sizes needed (26.8 and 27.0), since I had not previously used shims on them and did not want to  (the top collar of a shim would have conflicted with their concave seat lugs).

While I'm happy with both the ST and LT Thudbusters, I have a really smooth, light, high-rev pedaling style that minimizes any bobbing in the saddle. I think if I were a low-rev, high-torque "masher", the LT *could* possibly have a problem with bobbing until the rider adjusted pedaling style. It has not been a problem for me. The ST with its more damped, limited travel doesn't seem as likely to bob under a masher.

About a year after fitment, the LT developed a click while riding. After following all the suggestions in the Thudbuster FAQ, I wrote their support team and received a supportive note in reply, as well as a replacement bushing kit. It seems something was amiss in only the right-side lower bushing -- perhaps it had been slightly damaged on initial installation? -- and replacing it solved the problem completely. I have kept the others for spares, but anticipate no problems based on how well the other bushings are doing. I've had good luck lubing with Tri-Flow, and I think the neoprene covers are a very good idea to keep the bushings dry and clean.

Thudbusters are available from a number of vendors internationally. If you are shopping for one in the US, the inventor sells direct from his site ( http://www.thudbuster.com/ ), with drop shipments dispatched by Cane Creek. The other direct site is Cane Creek, who makes the posts under license ( http://www.canecreek.com/products/seatposts ). I decided to buy from the inventor 'cos he included the neoprene sleeve for free.

I was initially reluctant to go with a suspension 'post out of concerns for long-term durability, maintenance, and wear. I think that  is still a potential issue, and won't know if it is an actual problem until I use the Thudbusters more. For the Nomad's LT, I will include a spare preload/limit bolt, nut and washer in my touring kit, as a breakage there could disable the post and there have been isolated, rare reports of breakage. I think the bolt could be an eventual wear item, due to the friction of the elastomers sliding on the shaft, as well as cumulative shock loads on lockout, so why not take a spare if going into the Middle of Nowhere? The ST has no such bolt.

I have found both types of elastomers (ST and LT) tend to "sag" a bit with use over time. It is not a material concern, but I found it helpful to place my saddle 5-8mm forward to compensate for sag (the linkage in the seatpost causes the saddle to decline downward and rearward under load and it proved to be a bit much when running the saddle with the same settings as on a rigid 'post). I've found saddle-to-BB distance to remain essentially constant, so it has not affected my knees adversely. I do notice compression places me the same distance but rearward in relation to the BB, but this has not been a problem in practice.

One more observation: The LT arrived with Medium elastomers and proved to be fine for my 78kg body weight, I didn't even have to adjust the preload/limit bolt. The ST was a different story (Nomad and each of the two randonneur bikes, all set up for identical position on the bikes).  With my preferred 45 back angle while riding the hoods and even more shallow back angle while on the drops, I just did not have enough weight on the saddle to actuate the ST posts except when hitting large bumps, so they felt harsh. They came supplied with the Medium elastomer puck (recommended for my weight) and substituting the included Soft puck solved the problem completely; the STs are now responsive, yet don't even approach bottom-out. I have concluded body weight is important in determining which elastomer to use, but so is body positioning and actual weight on the saddle.

Aesthetically, I still think Thudbusters are ugly -- especially on road bikes with classic geometry -- but they are now functionally beautiful in my eyes, thanks to their added performance and reduced fatigue with greater comfort.

Hope this helps, Dave.

All the best,

Dan.
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: David Simpson on August 17, 2015, 08:06:35 PM
Thanks for the quick and comprehensive answer (as usual)!

- Dave
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: Danneaux on November 12, 2015, 07:12:51 PM
Test post. This topic seems to have disappeared from searches, but still appears from the Forum's statistics box. Checking, as other member's gallery entries are appearing to come and go for me following the Forum update. Trying to get to the bottom of it.

Updates to follow.

Best,

Dan.
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: Znook on November 12, 2015, 08:07:53 PM
Well Dan that test post produced an update e-mail so all's well in the world at my end :)
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: Danneaux on November 12, 2015, 09:50:52 PM
Thanks, Robbie; very helpful feedback. I have been concerned some members' posts -- particularly in the Gallery -- may have become lost, since sometimes a search by title brings up... <nothing>  :o so  I am checking everything. It may simply be an anomaly in the search engine's algorithm or some content posted before the Forum update may not be cataloged by the Forum search engine...or it may be nothing. Best I have a look in any case.  ;)

Attached photos posted before the update only show generic icons because the thumbnail files did not make the trip. Also, photos attached earlier are often corrupted, either entirely or in their lower third. All referenced internal links in posts are broken, and I am going through and updating them as I can find them. The links are still there, but the domains are outdated. I will soon post a short tutorial on how to view "broken" Forum links.

All the best,

Dan.
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: Danneaux on December 03, 2015, 07:17:54 PM
Hi All!

Just a quick couple of photos to show Danneaux's Nomad is still in regular use. Yesterday's long ride started in cool but cloudy weather...then the rain hit. Good thing I had my rain gear with me. The insulated jacket shown did not work well. It is a soft-shell design with no ventilation besides the offset zipper and became a sweatbox within the first 8km, the same problem I've had with soft-shell jackets while walking. The back proved too short to cover my jersey (the white thing peeking out below). What works in the stored does not always perform on the road. Back to my usual layering setup with removable wind or rain shell.

There have been some subtle but important updates to my Nomad. Stay tuned for more.

Best,

Dan.
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: Danneaux on December 03, 2015, 08:03:21 PM
For those who asked:

The above ride was a 200km day-ride on the Nomad, about the maximum I seem to take on it. I prefer my randonneur bikes for longer day rides on pavement.

I think the Nomad could likely go further, but I am always tempted by unpaved or gravel side excursions (usually steep trails ad logging or Forest Service roads) when riding it, and those are done at a slower pace, so I run out of time to accumulate distance before I must return. Horses for courses, and the Nomad is just *so* much better on rough/no pavement and requires less skill on those surfaces, so it is more relaxing. The Thudbuster Lt (Long Travel) seatpost makes it less jarring to ride the rough stuff as well.

The Nomad is a heavy bike to ride unladen and I do notice the difference between it and the rando bikes (20kg vs 14.5kg) when accelerating frequently, but there s not much difference in steady-state riding, once up to speed. It hasn't held me back, and remains my ideal mount for hauling heavy touring loads.

Best,

Dan.
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: jags on December 03, 2015, 08:24:21 PM
You have her togged out well Mr Wood. ;)

anto
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: mickeg on December 03, 2015, 11:25:42 PM
For wind, I like some of the Canari windbreakers.   For colder weather, I put on a thin insulated jacket under it, and maybe a fleece vest under it too. 

I really like this one.  When they designed it, they put the sleeve zippers on so that if you want to, you can open the sleeve zippers about 3 or 4 inches on the front for a bit more ventilation if you do not want to take the sleeves all the way off.

http://www.rei.com/product/877357/canari-razor-convertible-bike-jacket-mens-2013-special-buy

But some of the Canari have a material that is too wind resistant and do not breath well.   I have one of these and find that I accumulate too much moisture inside that does not evaporate.   So, I rarely wear it.

http://www.rei.com/product/877356/canari-microlight-shell-bike-jacket-mens-special-buy

If it is quite chilly, I often wear a down vest over everything for about the first 5 miles or so, then shed it.
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: Danneaux on December 04, 2015, 02:27:51 AM
Thanks, mickeg; very thoughtful and very helpful comments on the jackets/shells. I have long used the layering approach, but hoped the softshell concept was the Next Best Thing. So far, it seems to fall short of my needs.

I'll investigate that one Canari windbreaker...and avoid the other!  ;)

All the best,

Dan.
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: il padrone on December 04, 2015, 11:28:55 AM
Where did you purloin the three Blackburn Bomber cages? These have been out of production for many years.  :o
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: Andre Jute on December 04, 2015, 04:50:40 PM
Where did you purloin the three Blackburn Bomber cages? These have been out of production for many years.  :o

Yeah, I thought there was something vintage about those cages. Mine were on a long-gone Peugeot of unfond memory (it wrecked my back) but on which I still managed dawn to dusk rides in my yoof.
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: mickeg on December 04, 2015, 06:31:07 PM
I did not realize those cages were vintage.

http://www.amazon.com/M-Wave-Tall-Bottle-Black-Silver/dp/B007Y5EIYS

But they do not say what bottle diameter they are for.
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: il padrone on December 04, 2015, 09:24:39 PM
BBB now make the best version of a cage for the big PET bottles - Fueltank XL (http://bbbcycling.com/accessories/bottle-cages/BBC-15). Many of the other versions by Topeak and others are too weak, will bust the mountings or the bottle neck-holder in short order.

(http://prodbase.augustabenelux.nl/prodbase/GetImage.aspx?filename=ImageDocs/2015/BBC-15 FuelTank XL ~2905091501.jpg&width=1024&height=768)
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: martinf on December 04, 2015, 10:41:17 PM
I've got one of those big BBB bottle holders on each of my two Thorn Ravens. Not possible to fit two on the mounts inside the frame without interference  between the bottles, so the 2nd bottle holder is normal size. For the moment I don't use the 3rd set of mounts under the frame as bottles tend to get mucky in this position in local weather conditions, and I rarely need more than 2,5 litres of water.

The clip for the neck of the bottle is more secure if a strong O-ring of the right size is fitted over the hooks.
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: Danneaux on May 13, 2016, 07:48:20 PM
Probably stupidly given my continuing battle with a heavy cold, I rode the Nomad into Oregon's Coast Range yesterday to the site of a salvage logging operation, where burned trees are collected for processing so they don't go to waste.

This has been a favorite destination for the last 37 years, usually alone but sometimes with my late father, who traversed these roads with me on a half-dozen loaded tours. The roads are steep -- my Austrian-made SkyMounti inclinometer's bubble was packed up at the top end of the scale, which only reads slopes to 20%. Grateful once again for the 36x17 gearing that results in a 15 gear-inch low.

I went light this time -- 6.5l of water and my rack-pack with a wind jacket and some food. The Thudbuster LT seatpost proved its worth for me once again when riding the Nomad largely unladen.

Heat reflected off the roadside rock walls, boosting the temperature to 33.9C, which dropped to 27.7C in the open. Hated to carry so much water, but the photos show the classic problem: I ride up high, while water is usually at the bottom of inaccessible valleys far below.

Soon's I can dump the head and chest cold, this will be a great destination to test the Carradice Minimalist setup on my way through to the Coast and then back again (double transits get bonus climbing points!).

Best,

Dan.

[A little hiccup in the connection meant I had to repost; sorry if it meant a double notification]
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: David Simpson on May 13, 2016, 09:35:14 PM
Dan --

When you do your trips on these logging roads, do you do a loop, or do you need to return on the same road? We have the same types of roads in my area (western Canada), and many of the roads are dead-end -- they go up the mountain to the logging areas, but do not necessary connect to any other roads. Some of the main roads do go through, but the trick is to know which is the main road when you come to a fork. I used to have a Jeep, and did quite a bit of back country exploring on these roads. My friend had a theory that at a fork, the dead-end "spur line" road would look twice as travelled, since people would need to return on that road. The main road would be the one that looked less travelled.

Just curious.

Nice photos, by the way. It's nice that the good weather has finally arrived.

- DaveS
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: mickeg on May 13, 2016, 10:30:58 PM
If you use a Thudbuster and a Carradice saddle bag supported by a rack, your Thudbuster would result in your saddle loops that hold the bag straps moving up and down relative to your rack. 
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: Danneaux on May 13, 2016, 11:55:42 PM
Quote
When you do your trips on these logging roads, do you do a loop, or do you need to return on the same road? We have the same types of roads in my area (western Canada), and many of the roads are dead-end -- they go up the mountain to the logging areas, but do not necessary connect to any other roads. Some of the main roads do go through, but the trick is to know which is the main road when you come to a fork.
<nods> It is the same here, Dave. I spent a good part of all my summer childhood vacations in the BC/Vancouver Island area, and the two places look remarkably similar.

I think your friend had a good idea, but it seems to work the opposite here: The logging spurs tend to be temporary and dead-end, meaning the heavier use goes on the main access roads which connect to others in the road system or loop themselves. Below is a photo taken of the road system board posted for the area by the BLM. It is a rough guide and you'll note North is at the bottom, which causes all sorts of problems for people who don't notice or are unfamiliar with the area. It is correct for the way the map-board is oriented geographically, but all confusion would have been prevented if it had been oriented with North at the top *and* located on the North side of the road.

It can be a real trick keeping things straight between BLM (Bureau of Land Management), FS (Forest Service) and private logging-access roads...and all have their own numbering systems that may or may not be updated annually. I keep a good stock or both paper and electronic maps and use my GPS' tracking function and waypoints to make sure I can return the way I came -- assuming the satellites are not blocked by southern ridges or slot canyons. There is no cell service even on the ridge-tops and it would the Real Easy to get Lost without much effort. Even without getting lost, it can be No Fun making endless backtracks in steep terrain.

Quote
If you use a Thudbuster and a Carradice saddle bag supported by a rack, your Thudbuster would result in your saddle loops that hold the bag straps moving up and down relative to your rack.
A keen observation, mickeg, and one I am keeping in mind. If it has enough layback to clear the saddle at full travel, Thorn's 45 Saddlebag Bracket might be just the answer:
With shim: http://www.sjscycles.co.uk/thorn-saddlebag-bracket-1725-mm-extension-222mm-45-deg-prod22924/?geoc=us
Without: http://www.sjscycles.co.uk/thorn-accessory-bar-t-shaped-1725-mm-extension-45-deg-no-shim-prod28574/?geoc=us

If I relocate my motion-detecting alarm to the saddlebag bracket, there would be plenty of room below the TBLT pivot on the seatpost to clamp one of these. If I used cut-down Arno straps  http://www.amazon.com/CoghlanS-Arno-Strap-Blister-Pack/dp/B002YLK5IA ) or toe straps to secure the bag to the Thorn Saddlebag Bracket, it would be secured or released almost instantly, as the straps would only need to be loosened, not unthreaded. Without holes, the straps are infinitely adjustable and could be snugged up to remove all play. The bottom of the bag would still be supported by the rear rack, and the suspension function would be independent of the bag mount. One of many options I am considering.

All the best,

Dan.
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: mickeg on May 14, 2016, 12:20:06 AM
This past Thursday I was part of a group ride, one person had a Burley tandem.  The stem for the stoker plus a piece of cut down handlebar (or wood broom handle) would work exactly like the Thorn Tee Bar too.  So, if you are looking for other lengths or angles that Thorn does not make, there may be more options used by tandems for stoker stems.


Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: Danneaux on May 14, 2016, 12:30:55 AM
Yep! I may end up fabricating a simple stub seatpost mount modeled after the adjustable stoker stem I TiG'd and brazed together for the tandem (photo below). Each bike's seatpost would get a stub base and I could simply transfer my own T-bar into it as I moved the bag from bike to bike. This would allow me to still use a conventional underseat bag when I didn't want or need to carry the Carradice Camper Longflap. The bag wouldn't require a quick-release as the mount itself would assume that function. If I make the mount in a "K" shape, it will keep the bag upright and obviate any need for a rack or bagman to support it

More about the photo...I spliced both tandem computers to run off a single (front wheel) pickup, so the readings are identical. Notice the captain's "rocker" type suspension seatpost. It takes the edge off smaller bumps already damped by sitting in the middle of a very long wheelbase. The rear telescopic sus-post was constructed half by me from a ready-made shaft rescued from a trash skip. I milled a new plunger and made a seat cradle, then created the combination spring/elastomer internal suspension elements and preload adjustment.

Still thinking about how best to mount the 'dice saddlebag to multiple bikes...

All the best,

Dan.
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: Danneaux on June 04, 2016, 05:11:26 PM
Hi All!

While on a recent build-fest, I gave some thought on how to best mount my Ortlieb Medium Underseat Bag to the Brooks saddle on my Nomad. Ortlieb's mounting brackets don't usually work with Brooks saddles, but once in awhile there is a lucky combination of saddle setback that allows it, as happened for me with Sherpa and the Nomad whilst using long-layback rigid seatposts.

However, my luck ran out when I fitted a Thudbuster LT suspension seatpost to the Nomad...there just wasn't enough space left on the Brooks rails before they flared too wide to attach the Ortlieb bag mount.

I need the bag to fit close to the saddle to maximize vertical rack space, yet the bag must attach and detach easily and remain secure. Ortlieb offers an alternative two-piece strap mounting setup but it looks bad, allows the bag to wiggle about, and requires a third point of attachment to the seatpost, not possible with a Thudbuster...especially if the neoprene dust cover is used.

Wire-rope clamps and billet aluminum to the rescue! Rather than simply sandwiching the rails between two strips of aluminum stock, I decided to go with wire clamps for maximum security. The bag is held completely rigid to the rails on the very rough terrain I often travel with the Nomad. I seldom leave any opportunity for chance loss, so I have also secured the bag to the rails with a webbing strap and quick-release buckle. I was annoyed to find the Ortlieb mount uses Phillips-head machine screws, so I replaced them with 5mm allen bolts. The A2 (302) stainless shown are for fitup and will be replaced by A4 (316).

Now the photographs are done, the lot will be painted black to match the bike and vinyl thread caps will cover the exposed nuts; exposed bolt ends will be removed so I can use the space above the rails to store my saddle rain cover. Except for the aluminum bracket and plastic Ortieb mount, all hardware is marine grade stainless steel. Nylock nuts and Medium (blue) Loctite 242 will secure the lot. The Ortlieb bag and mount are unmodified so they can be used on another bike in the future if desired. The loaded bag has no discernible effect on the Thudbuster's suspension function.

Best,

Dan.
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: Danneaux on June 04, 2016, 07:41:21 PM
For those of you who have PM'D me to ask why I prefer the Ortlieb Medium underseat bag...
It is truly waterproof so my tools won't rust.
Surprisingly lightweight yet robust for its weight.
Can be cabled to the saddle and bike for a measure of security while parked. I always carry a short length of small diameter cable to deter saddle/seatpost theft while the bike is parked and locked.
The mount is secure yet releases quickly.
It doesn't interfere with my legs while pedaling.
The roll top means it can compress the contents so they ride silently, without rattles.
It includes strap guides for redundant mounting on rough roads to prevent loss.
It is sized so all my most frequently needed tools and spares are ready to hand so I don't have to dig through my panniers when I just want to make a quick repair and be back in service soonest.  These include:
    Spare tube
    Vulcanizing and instant tube patch kits
    Spare quick-links for the chain
    Multi-tool incl. tire levers and chain tool.
    Spare mini-pump
    Nitrile gloves to prevent dirty hands that would transfer rim oxides, chain oil and grease to clothing, tent, mat and sleeping bag.
    Thorn combo BB eccentric bolt wrench/pin spanner/pedal wrench.
    Tire boot
    Cable ties
    Common spare bolts incl. Seatpost clamp bolt and SPD cleat bolts
    1m length of duct tape

So equipped, I rarely have need to access the other tools I carry, so I can leave them stored until it is convenient to make less common repairs in camp. This means I don't have to carry so many tools in my panniers, so space is freed for carrying other items.

Best,

Dan.
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: julio on June 30, 2016, 10:12:52 PM
Hi All!

I'm installing my spare spokes in the Nomad's seatpost using the same plug I made for Sherpa (see: http://www.thorncycles.co.uk/forums/index.php?topic=3896.msg18563#msg18563 ).

Some of you have wondered what size spokes are used on my 2012 Nomad Mk2. The actual lengths of my six Thorn-supplied spare Sapim spokes and Sapim Polyax nipples are:

(3) @ 238mm, butted 1.8/2.0mm, laced cross-2 for the Rohloff hub
(3) @ 260mm, butted 1.8/2.0mm, laced cross-3 for the SON28 (New-style) dynohub

...paired with 26" Rigida Andra 32-hole rims.

Best,

Dan.

Hi Dan,

Assuming i buy a pair of Andra 30..(and a Son 28 front hub)

Can i use the same length of spokes as you  ? (front and rear)

Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: Danneaux on July 01, 2016, 02:06:57 AM
Quote
Assuming i buy a pair of Andra 30..(and a Son 28 front hub)

Can i use the same length of spokes as you  ? (front and rear)
Hi Julien!

You should be fine. I measured the spokes that came as extras with my Nomad and I used both DT Swiss and Park spoke rulers, so the numbers should be accurate.

One thing of note: The SON 28 I use on my Nomad is the SON28 New, now commonly referred to as the "SON28".

According to Peter White ( http://www.peterwhitecycles.com/schmidt.php ), this current SON 28 New (with ball-shaped hub center) has a flange diameter of 54mm.

The SON28 Klassik (older model with barrel-shaped hub center, still available) has a flange diameter of 70mm.

Best,

Dan.
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: martinf on July 01, 2016, 06:15:17 AM

Assuming i buy a pair of Andra 30..(and a Son 28 front hub)


If you plan on using wide tyres and doing expedition riding, the wider Andra 40 rims might be even better than Andra 30, and only slightly heavier.

But they are difficult to find.
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: julio on July 02, 2016, 11:27:44 AM
I don't know what is wide for you Martin !

Currently, i've Schwalbe Dureme in 2" and i think they are good on asphalt road.

If i'm planning to go in Africa on dirt roads for example, "Marathon Mondial" tires will be a good choice i think but..

Should i stay in 2" or 2.15  ? or more wide ? ( i didn"t find a biggest size than 2.15 for the Marathon Mondial tires)

Dan, Thanks for your advises   
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: Danneaux on July 02, 2016, 05:41:39 PM
Quote
Currently, i've Schwalbe Dureme in 2" and i think they are good on asphalt road.
<nods> I have found them to be a very good all-'round tire for pavement and use on mixed surfaces.

Where I have found them to be problematic is while riding on the very rough, sharp-edged ballast rock used on logging roads in my area. They are irregular in shape, ungraded, and tend to collapse around the tire. The Dureme's sidewalls are a bit fragile for this sort of thing. Not a real failing given the overall mission of the tires. i like them enormously and have found them to be an ideal compromise. However, I do make sure I ride with care on that particular surface. "Regular" gravel and bad roads have not been a problem for me.

I had really good luck with the 2.0 Marathon deluxe tires fitted to the Raven Tour kindly loaned me by Forum member AndyBG for my 2014 tour. Their sidewalls seemed a bit more robust than the Duremes', but they rolled well under load. I only had one flat in ~9,000km; it was caused by a long roofing stable I picked up outside Giurgiu, Romania. Not a bad thing, it caused a chance meeting with the homeowner whose lawn-edge I was using to make repairs. We became friends immediately and I have stayed in online contact with his lovely daughter.  :)

Quote
If i'm planning to go in Africa on dirt roads for example, "Marathon Mondial" tires will be a good choice i think but..

Should i stay in 2" or 2.15  ? or more wide ? ( i didn"t find a biggest size than 2.15 for the Marathon Mondial tires)
The Marathon Mondial is sort of the definitive expedition tire, and for good reason. It is very durable, but it is also heavy and this can be noticeable when riding unladen...not so much when loaded to the gunwales.

If you go too wide on your tires, you may have problems with mudguard/fender clearance when traversing actual mud -- it can cake onto the tires and cause rubbing that will slow or stop your progress, as it did me in Romania and again in rural Belgium and Germany. It was not so fun getting off the bike and into mud well over my shoe-tops to remove enough mud for the wheels to turn...only to repeat the operation 100m later. Pushing the bike doesn't really help that much. My hat is off to Shimano for making pedals and cleats that reliably dis/engage in such conditions. If you find yourself in such conditions, use a stick instead of fingers to clear the mess, 'cos the edge of the mudguards is sharp against wet fingers.

Remember also, tire profiles are roughly 1:1, so a wider tire is also a taller tire. If you fit fatter tires, you will likely need to raise your mudguards by removing some spacers. The tightest point for mud clearance will generally be under the mounting bolt heads, inside the mudguards.

So, the takeaway here is if you fit larger tires, make sure you have adequate mudguard clearance for use in really poor conditions.

A general caution: Though the Nomad is capable of carrying enormous loads reliably and well, cycling is always more pleasurable with "less". I speak as someone who introduced a visiting Dutch friend to cycle-camping. He had not really camped and wanted to carry all the amenities with him (we had a folding kitchen sink, so yes we took that as well...and his Dutch Army tank driver's boots for hiking, and...). Well, why not? The fully provisioned bike with us aboard and the trailer in tow weighed in at 272kg/600lb. My homemade trailer weighed 57kg/125lb alone. We did fine riding even on steep grades on gravel Forest Service roads using 26x1.5in road slicks. It would have been more pleasurable grinding uphill if we had also fitted a winch...or carried less.

I rarely load my Nomad with cargo weighing above 25kg for "normal" tours, but when desert touring for extended periods, then I add the 26.5kg of water and extra food, because there is little fresh water available and no stores for resupply. It is not practical to pre-cache supplies thanks to the heat and animal predation. For the occasions when I have taken a full load, the Duremes proved both wide enough and strong enough for my needs.

Even so, the desert heat demands I carry more stuff...a folding, vented Korean fisherman's hat for shade when stopped, and a folding chair to get me off the scalding hot pavement at lunch breaks. Pulling off hot tar that has solidified on the skin is no fun...the skin comes off with it. Lycra shorts melt, too. You have to carry what you need for the demands of a given tour.

Of course, terrain, riding style, user preference, and a hundred other variables come into play, but the general maxim still holds -- carry less to enjoy more.

I remember riding on my last long tour and realizing that at any given moment, I was *not* using ~95% of my carried items. The trouble is, the ~5% I did use varied, sometimes within the hour as weather changed.

All the best,

Dan.
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: Danneaux on July 02, 2016, 08:30:16 PM
Just in from riding logging roads. The bike got its usual post-rode cleanup and looks spiffy once again. No hub leaks, oil misting, or anything untoward visible between my wipe-downs. The Purple Extreme oil does reduce "dusting" of the chain and keeps things considerably cleaner than "wet" oils.

The bracket I made for the Ortlieb Medium Underseat Bag works with my rack-pack to leave more room in the big bag. Before, they were mutually exclusive. The bracket is now acid-etched and painted satin black to match the saddle rails.
Best,

Dan.
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: martinf on July 02, 2016, 09:47:55 PM
>I don't know what is wide for you Martin !
>Currently, i've Schwalbe Dureme in 2" and i think they are good on asphalt road.

I currently use 2" Supremes and 2" Duremes on my three 26" wheel bikes (2 Thorn Raven Tours and an old mountain bike).

In my opinion, Supremes are better than Duremes for road-only use, they have also survived careful use on tracks and paths, but I consider Duremes a better choice when tracks, paths and off-road riding make up a significant proportion of the riding mix.

Both Supremes and Duremes are lightweight tyres with flexible and relatively fragile casings/sidewalls, they roll easily compared to heavier tyres. I don't do real expedition touring, if I did I would choose a proper expedition tyre for reliability.

For off-road or expedition use I reckon 2.15 or 2.25 would be better than 2", but 2" is the widest tyre I can fit on any of my frames and still have reasonable mudguard clearance.

I also have a very old 650B wheel bike that I currently use on survey work. Until recently this had 42 mm tyres. The recently introduced "27.5" size is identical to 650B (Etrto 584 rims), so I took the opportunity of fitting 50 mm tyres which just fit my frame. This relatively small increase in width dramatically improved the capability of the bike on soft surfaces such as coastal sand.

As far as rim width is concerned, Andra 30 rims are designed for 25 to 57 mm tyres, whereas Andra 40 rims are designed for 37 to 62 mm. I have Andra 30 rims on my first Raven Tour, I think they are very good rims, but I believe Andra 40 would be even better for 2" tyres and larger.

Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: Danneaux on July 02, 2016, 10:41:32 PM
Another Danneaux'mad update, lock edition this time 'round...

I was been pleased with my AXA Defender on Sherpa and moved it to the Nomad. Unfortunately, the Nomad's 19mm seatstays are really too large in diameter *and* spaced too far apart for any ready mounting solution to work with the AXA Defender, though I surely tried at some expense and effort. The AXA Defender now lives happily on one of my rando bikes made with standard diameter road bike tubing and 700x32C tires.

I looked at other ring-locks including the ABUS Amparo 4150 I have seen fitted to some Nomads, but I found it did not mount securely enough for me...the shackle is spring-loaded and caused it to "clock" around the chainstays when cocked or released. I think the Abus Amparo is a good lock, but its success depends in part on frame size and the seatstays on my Nomad are too wide apart where it would need to mount.

The solution for me came with Trelock's recent release of the RS 450 Protect-O-Connect Balloon edition ring lock, mounted on inverted Trelock ZR 20 Vario mounts. It fit my size 590M Nomad Mk2 to within 0.1mm -- spot-on, but only if I reversed the mounts top for bottom to pick up that wee bit of needed extra width.

The lock fits tightly and securely on the bike and has not moved or "clocked" around the stays at all in the last 6 months I've owned it. It clears the mudguards nicely and there is 14mm minimum clearance at the sidewalls of my fully inflated 2.0 Schwalbe Dureme tires. This will allow for much more mud clearance than the old AXA Defender. Wheel changes are a snap and mud clearance has not been a problem to date.

I again chose the key-retaining version so the key stays in the lock when it is unlocked. This means I won't forget it at home and the keyway is plugged against mud or dirt. I use a spiral wrap to hold the key to my wrist when off the bike. A little plastic clip also lets me snap it to a zipper pull or belt loop for extra security. It doesn't rattle in the lock while underway. I may shave the handle part of the key, as my baggy rain pants brush it lightly while pedaling.

Used alone, the ring-lock alone is not good security except for preventing snatch-grab or rideaway thefts -- the bike can still be carried away. For this reason, I also have three plug-in options:
a) Trelock's ZR 310 180cm x 10mm OD cable for securing the bike to a tree when I am riding in the backcountry, where I am unlikely to encounter people. This is the lightest but least secure option and allows me to secure the bike while using a primitive toilet or at a trailhead while I explore on foot. It stores on a Trelock mount atop my rear rack.
Weight: 430g/15.2oz

b) Trelock's ZR 355 Protect-O-Connect 150cm x 6.0mm diamater hardened chain with cover and storage bag. This is the one I am most likely to take touring, as it is a good compromise between lightweight, convenience, and security. It stores in my panniers inside a sturdy Cordura nylon bag. The bag also has velcro to attach it to a rear rack.
Weight: 1.63kg/57.4oz/3.58lb including carry bag.

c) Trelock's ZR 455 Protect-O-Connect 140cm x 8.5mm diameter hardened chain with cover and storage bag. I use it for securing the bike at home. it weighs a ton, but that doesn't matter as I rarely ride with it.
Weight: 3.0kg/106oz/6.62lb including carry bag.

Sorry, I did not weigh the lock and mounts before installation. Published weight for the lock alone is ~650g/23oz/1.4lb.

All three plug-ins use a 10mm plug that is secured when the ring-lock's hasp is thrown shut. Each is long enough to secure the front wheel *and* secure the bicycle to a fixed object even with loaded panniers. Each will also secure the anti-snatch cables on my Ortlieb panniers. The ring-lock's hasp secures a small-diameter cable run through the D-rings on my Ortlieb underseat bag and my saddle rails (thus also securing the Thudbuster LT suspension seatpost it sits on).

Why the ring-lock?
1) Where I live, snatch-grab thefts are a growing problem. I nearly lost the Nomad when I stopped at a bench to remove my 3/4 tights. With the ring-lock, I can quickly disable the rear wheel from rolling, making the bike unridable. This is also helpful when the bike must be left in the larger interior of a public restroom while I am using a stall.

2) Ring-locks with plug-ins effectively give me two locks for the price of one. If the plug-in is cut, I still have the wheel secured. If the wheel hasp is cut, the plug-in remains attached and secure.

3) The ring-lock secures the rear wheel nicely. It is really difficult for bolt cutter jaws to reach into the limited space where the hasp resides under the rim.

4) The ring-lock hasp provides a point to secure another cable or small chain,so I effectively have three locks for one key, not just two.

5) If I have to carry a lock anyway, the ring-lock and a plug-in are lighter than a heavy U-lock and cable or chain and the plug-ins allow me to tailor my options to the tour.

6) It is sometimes difficult to use a U-lock to properly secure a loaded touring bike. My panniers block most of my seatstays and make it difficult to use the "Sheldon Brown locking method" to secure the rear wheel to a post. I can thread the lock through a chainstay, but then it is oriented wrong. This means I still must depend on a cable or chain to secure the bike to a post, and sometimes it can be challenge to also capture the front wheel and my pannier anti-theft tethers.

I don't think a ring-lock even with a heavy-duty plug-in chain is as secure as a properly employed U-lock whose open space is filled in part by the detached front wheel. However, I think this is a better solution for me in general touring use where I need to accommodate and at least partially secure a full touring load when traveling solo.

Best,

Dan.
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: Danneaux on July 02, 2016, 10:43:29 PM
More pics of the Trelock RS 450 Balloon ring-lock mounted on my 590M Nomad Mk2...

Best,

Dan.
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: julio on July 03, 2016, 02:33:59 PM
Thanks Martin for yours advises ! you're not the only one to advise me for a pair of Andra 40.

As well, i'm currently in a region of France, where there is a artisan travel bike manufacturer, he use this model of rims for his customers, and i think he told me by phone than he have some of this rims in stock..

Why did you say, "its difficult to find them" ?

Dan,

Can you tell me in which situation do you use this lock ?

i remember they're heavy locks .. and not really effective for someone who really wants your bike  :D 

Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: martinf on July 03, 2016, 03:48:02 PM
Thanks Martin for yours advises ! you're not the only one to advise me for a pair of Andra 40.

As well, i'm currently in a region of France, where there is a artisan travel bike manufacturer, he use this model of rims for his customers, and i think he told me by phone than he have some of this rims in stock..

Why did you say, "its difficult to find them" ?

Last time I wanted to buy rims they were not available anywhere locally (I live in South Brittany). An Internet search found only one online dealer in Austria who had Andra 40 rims, but they weren't in the 36 hole version I wanted.

I ended up getting some Sun Ringle Rhyno Lite rims at a good price, these are substantially lighter than Andra 30 and 40, so they probably won't be so durable, but should suffice for my planned use on utility bikes. At 27.4 mm outside dimensions they fall between the Andra 30 and 40 in width.
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: Danneaux on July 03, 2016, 06:23:28 PM
Quote
Can you tell me in which situation do you use this lock ?

Hi Julien,

As it happens, I use the frame mounted ring-lock daily -- whenever I stop the bike and leave it even at arm's length while taking photographs, changing outer clothing, eating a snack or using the toilet. Theft is such a problem where I live, being able to lock the rear wheel is a great aid in discouraging someone grabbing the bike and riding away.

I use the plug-in cable to secure the bike to trees when I am camping in the forest, or while I am hiking at remote trailheads or when I am using a primitive forest toilet and could not prevent a theft. A friend lost his bike a week ago in just this situation. While he was using the forest toilet, a couple of guys drove up, threw his bike in their pickup truck and drove away. I got his call and drove him home.

I use the (lighter) chain while touring with a load because it allows me to secure both wheels and the frame and then secure the frame to a fixed object. It is difficult with loaded panniers to properly use a U-lock to provide maximum security as I would when riding the bike unladen. U-locks also do not go 'round things like trees very well.

I use the (heavy) chain at home to secure the bike in my storage.
Quote
i remember they're heavy locks...
They are heavy, though not as heavy as some really secure U-locks like the ABUS Granite when also combined with a chain.

I can't even begin to tell you how much it irritates me to have to carry a heavy lock to keep what is rightfully mine. Grrr.
Quote
...and not really effective for someone who really wants your bike
Agreed, though nothing is wholly effective when a thief is really determined. Where I live, thieves ride openly with bolt cutters and at least one bike they have liberated. The police no longer investigate property crimes or will even take a report for insurance -- you have to download a form if you need it. The jails are full and all but murder suspects are released after no more than several hours in custody. Nothing is proof against the portable angle grinder equipped with cutoff wheels. If the thief cannot cut through the lock with one, they will cut the frame in two and take the pieces with them so they can remove the parts and components at leisure to resell on eBay or Craigslist. On my riverside walk yesterday, I passed no fewer than 7 cut-in-two bike frames, all stripped of parts.

My goal with the ring lock and plug-ins is to keep the bike when it is most vulnerable in usage -- when I am more than arm's length from it for more than a moment, when I am touring in more remote areas, and when I am away from it briefly shopping in rural markets for groceries.  Beyond that, there is not too much the *solo* touring cyclist can do, though I could always supplement the ring-lock with one of my U-locks if needed...the U-lock typically weighs less than the heavy chain and even a bit less than my medium one...but then how best to secure both wheels and the frame with a full touring load? Touring with a partner is one of the greatest aids to security and theft prevention, but not always possible or desirable.

For now, the ring lock is proving both a great convenience and good security...partly because it is always ready and so easily activated and used so I really can't forget.

All the best,

Dan.
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: StuntPilot on July 04, 2016, 12:00:44 PM
Dan

I am shocked that people can walk around openly with angle grinders and not get stopped!  :o They would not last long on the streets here.

Interesting chat about the frame/ring lock you have found. I have the AXA Defender on my Raven Tour and love it. At the back of mind I have wondered about mud and clearance when using 2 inch tyres. I too use the ring lock at every opportunity.

I use Schwalbe Marathon Plus 1.75 tyres at the moment and the clearance is fine with the AXA Defender ring lock. Should I do a more off-road tour, then I would have to consider a ring lock with a wider opening like the one you now use. I use either the cable or chain depending on the tour. I only use the Abus Granite X-Plus 54 in cities. Too heavy on tour I agree.

http://www.bikeradar.com/gear/category/accessories/locks/product/review-abus-abus-granit-x-plus-54-300-39850/ (http://www.bikeradar.com/gear/category/accessories/locks/product/review-abus-abus-granit-x-plus-54-300-39850/)

Can you tell me the size of the opening in mm with your new ring rock Dan?

The AXA Defender has a 51mm opening and is rated security level 12. AXA have recently introduced a stronger ring lock called the Solid Plus which looks interesting too. It has a 58mm opening and a security level of 15 ...

http://www.axasecurity.com/bike-security/en-gb/products/locks/framelocks/axa-set-solid-plus-plus-pi150-removable/ (http://www.axasecurity.com/bike-security/en-gb/products/locks/framelocks/axa-set-solid-plus-plus-pi150-removable/)

Another anti-theft idea would be removable pedals. MKS of Japan have a great quality removable pedal, the MKS EZY Superior. It would be even better if it was flat one side and SPD the other ...

http://www.cyclocamping.com/Pedals__Clips__Straps/mks_ezy_superior_exim_pedals/EZYEXIM-149.aspx (http://www.cyclocamping.com/Pedals__Clips__Straps/mks_ezy_superior_exim_pedals/EZYEXIM-149.aspx)

Not cheap though.
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: Matt2matt2002 on July 04, 2016, 01:28:26 PM
Re Axa locks, I sold mine on when I fitted 2" Marathons to my Raven.
Miss it to bits so will take a look at the one Dan mentioned.

Mnd you, I took Dan's advice re the curly wrist attachment for the key and still managed to loose it in a supermarket!
Fortunately handed in to security.
I think it was a cheap nylon spring type.
Maty
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: Danneaux on July 04, 2016, 03:54:55 PM
Quote
Can you tell me the size of the opening in mm with your new ring rock Dan?
I'm at the Coast till Wednesday morning, then will return to ship a frame/fork I just sold on eBay and will measure the lock and report the particulars then. As I recall, the opening in the Balloon model is around 72mm, but I will need to measure to confirm.

Please note I still love my AXA Defender and it now lives on one of my rando bikes. The gravel grinder/dirt rando will get a new AXA Victory. It is essentially a Defender with a restyled case, new colors and one real advance: The inner steel case is fully perimeter seam-welded. All Defender plug-in and mounts work with the Victory. The Victory also introduces a new, much easier mounting system that uses two worm-drive screw clamps per bracket. Mine will arrive soon.

Please note: I moved to the Trelock RS 450 Balloon on the Nomad because...
a) it was the only frame mounted ring lock that would clamp onto my size 590M's widely spaced 19mm stays as securely as I require (though in my particular application I had to invert the mounts to do it).
...and...
b) the Balloon model has a *much* wider opening for better mud clearance both vertically and at the critical point opposite the tire sidewalls. This allows the clearance you see in the photo above. As I recall, the AXA Defender had something like 4mm clearance, so the Trelock Baloon added 1cm per side. Again, this is from memory, so I will get exact measurements in a couple days.
Quote
Mind you, I took Dan's advice re the curly wrist attachment for the key and still managed to loose it in a supermarket!
Matt, as with many (but not all) ringlocks, the Trelock RS450 Balloon is available in versions that retain the key (NAZ) or allow removal (AZ). The ART security ratings are based on the lock design, but insurance compensation in the Netherlands is based on the key-retaining versions: If the lock is open, the key is in it and will go with a stolen bike. If the owner has the key, it is proof the bike was locked and thetefore eligible for compensation. It is expected there will be two keys with each lock. If the maker's key service is used to make n more, this is noted and cross referenced before compensation is paid. I always order a spare key to leave at home and take 1 on tour "because". Of course, one rides in my key-retaining lock (3 total).

Matt, I have added a small plastic clip to the key's ring that holds the spiral wrist holder. This allows the option to clip the key to a zipper pull or to a length of Spectra Cord 'round my neck while away from the bike.

Quote
I am shocked that people can walk around openly with angle grinders and not get stopped!  :o They would not last long on the streets here.
well...they walk around openly carrying bolt cutters and burglary tools, too. It really is something. The System here in my community is so badly broken, I have no words to describe it. Sadly, I don't see it getting better anytime soon. It is particularly sad because this social flaw is a stark, ugly contrast to Oregon's stunning natural beauty.

Best,

Dan.
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: julio on July 04, 2016, 06:20:13 PM
Another Danneaux'mad update, lock edition this time 'round...


Why the ring-lock?
1) Where I live, snatch-grab thefts are a growing problem. I nearly lost the Nomad when I stopped at a bench to remove my 3/4 tights. With the ring-lock, I can quickly disable the rear wheel from rolling, making the bike unridable. This is also helpful when the bike must be left in the larger interior of a public restroom while I am using a stall.


Best,

Dan.

 :o


I'm planning to combine this lock, if i have to pass a night outside
https://www.bike-components.de/fr/Trelock/Schlaufenkabel-ZS-180-p33727/

With this sort of lock
https://www.bike-components.de/fr/ABUS/Faltschloss-Bordo-Granit-X-Plus-6400-Auslaufmodell-p21097/

But at day time, it's best to keep the bike near of you or find a solution where people are around (like that the potential thief don't know if the owner keep an eye on it)
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: IanW on July 04, 2016, 07:49:47 PM
I have used a number of different makes / models of ring lock over the years.
(AXA RL, Abus Amparo 4580, AXA Victory)

I marginally favour the AXA products compared to the Abus products of equivalent vintage
because Abus products seem to be a bit more show-above-substance
where AXA have been a bit more substantial.

I too prefer the key-retaining versions and use the captive key to also carry the other lock(s) keys.

And I have used a variety mounting methods including:
a) The plastic block + "J"-shaped hook bolt
b) nylon zip-ties
C) plastic-coated garden tying wire with insulatating tape over-wrap.
They all work adequately to a greater or lesser extent.
They are certainly easier to fit if you do not have the constraint of a seat-stay-bridge brake caliper nut or bolt to contend with.
But cantilever / V-brake bosses can be a hinderance too, but then there is this type of mount that can help
http://www.dutchbikebits.com/wheel-lock-v-brake-mounting-kit (http://www.dutchbikebits.com/wheel-lock-v-brake-mounting-kit)

This mount from AXA also provides considerable mounting flexibility
http://practicalcycles.com/products/334993--axa-flex-mount-flexible-fitting-bradckets-for-frame-lock-defendervictory.aspx (http://practicalcycles.com/products/334993--axa-flex-mount-flexible-fitting-bradckets-for-frame-lock-defendervictory.aspx)

Regarding the "plug-in" additional chains / cables: I have mixed feelings about these
because they rely on the security of the ring-lock (i.e. single point of failure)
but they then typically then provide an extra point of attack (i.e. leverage) on this lock.
And the chains and cables with the proprietary plug are not that strong (e.g. only 6mm chain link diameter).

So I simply use a slightly heavier grade chain (8mm link diameter) with a large "eye" link on one end and then insert the regular-sized link on the other end of this into the ring-lock sliding locking bar.

At work I used to use a 12mm link diameter chain locked in with the ring-lock to the rear wheel AND to a U-lock to frame and front wheel.
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: Danneaux on July 04, 2016, 08:10:51 PM
Hi Julien!

I agree, it is useful to employ at least two different means to secure a bike so the thief is required to bring two different tools to defeat them.

I used a Kryptonite Evo U-lock and 10mm cable to secure my Miyata on my 2008 tour of NL and BE and to secure AndyBG's Raven Tour on my 2014 European double-crossing.

However, I would be leery of depending on my 10mm cable here at home unless I used it in more remote areas. Cables are just too easy to cut with anything from clippers to utility scissors.

The link locks are a good idea, but the riveted joints are vulnerable to counter-pries and to joint-edge cuts by bolt cutters, which also snip through cables. In my sad little petri dish of bike theft, I come across at least one link-lock each week lying broken and discarded along the riverbank paths. Here is why:
https://youtu.be/opjDdMkpjXQ

In the end, any lock can be defeated and any lock is better than no lock, and if you have a lock, it really needs to be carried and used to be effective. If you travel with a companion, one can swap off on bike-watching duties. If you are solo, you can co-opt others to the task either casually or by creating a bailment-for-hire.

For example,  in Germany, I wanted to get a haircut inside a shopping mall. Outside, a group of pensioners were people watching and we became engaged through my answers to their questions about bicycle travel. They offered to watch my (locked) bike while I was gone. One came to tell me when they later had to leave. Ideal.

Other times, I found that nearby hotels would agree to watch the bike, placing it in secure storage for a small fee and a claim tag. In between these two options, I sometimes bought a beer for petrol station staff to stand casual watchor keep the bike in their office. In Turnu Magurele, a toilet attendant gladly volunteered to watch the locked bike while I was inside...good for a generous tip from me!

Best,

Dan.
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: JimK on July 04, 2016, 10:43:38 PM
I'm using the Abus Bordo 6500 lock these days... a step up from the 6000. Hard to say with any of these. I am in a more urban area these days so bike theft is a real issue. I don't often leave the bike out of sight for very long... it's always a gamble!
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: julio on July 05, 2016, 01:43:13 PM
I'm using the Abus Bordo 6500 lock these days... a step up from the 6000. Hard to say with any of these. I am in a more urban area these days so bike theft is a real issue. I don't often leave the bike out of sight for very long... it's always a gamble!


A bit like an adrenaline "surge" when you return to your bike   ???
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: JimK on July 05, 2016, 10:22:31 PM
  an adrenaline "surge" when you return to your bike

got to say, I do experience a minor panic as I round the corner and, whew, it's still there!
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: lewis noble on July 07, 2016, 10:12:38 AM
Hello Dan - you mentioned a few posts ago that you had liked the Axa Defender as fitted to the Sherpa you had - did it fit easily? Looking at my medium frame sized Sherpa (530S), there is not a lot of room around the seatstays area with the V brakes, rack mounting lugs on the seatstays etc - did you find it needed a separate / additional bracket or did it go straight on??

Thanks - by all means refer me back to earlier posts on this theme. 

Lewis
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: Danneaux on July 07, 2016, 09:06:54 PM
Hi Lewis!

Unfortunately, when the Forum upgraded to new software, the old links broke. I have found the links relevant to your question and have repaired the cross-references so they should work as you click them. The old thumbnail files for attached photos did not make the trip to new software, so the thumbnails have been replaced by generic icons. Click on them to open the photos. Most have some corruption, but should be clear enough to see what they portray.

Basically, the Sherpa fit boiled down to this:
1) Unlike the Nomad, the Sherpa (like the RavenTour and later Raven) has seatstays small in diameter than those on the Nomad and they are closer together. This alone solves many of the fit problems I ran into putting the AXA Defender on the Nomad.

2) I found tire clearance adequate with 2.0 Duremes, but that is the maximum. The opening of the Defender is 50mm. The part near the tire sidewalls is 63mm. 63-50=13/2-6.5mm maximum clearance per side, provided the ring-lock is fitted in height to mirror the tire profile. This proved fine in my usual use with 2.0 tires, but could become problematic in heavy mud (as I sometimes encounter with wet desert dry lake playa). For reference, the Trelock RS 450 Balloon model offers 14mm clearance per side in the same location. Mud clearance should not be a problem in any ordinary use. If you are running 1.75in tires, you'll have no clearance problems running an AXA Defender.

3) Mounting options vary for frames (like Thorns) lacking the M5x0.8mm bosses for direct mounting...
a) The little "Spam can" metal straps and worm drive option...I found fiddly to fit and insecure and not worth the bother. Heaven help you if you need to remove the lock and refit it. This kit was sometimes included with the locks, but now seems less common than even a year ago.
b) I had really good luck with the AXA "ATB" mounting kit. It consists of two shaped plastic blocks, a couple of nuts and externally toothed washers, and two vinyl coated end-threaded "cup hooks" that wrap around the seatstays and grasp it. With this kit, mounting was a breeze and removal and reinstallation is easy if you need to. All that is needed is an 8mm socket wrench or Y-wrench. The kits come in two sizes, so you just need to choose the one appropriate to your seatstay diameter. My Sherpa Mk2 and the Raven Tours both used 16mm seatstays so the larger kit was ideal. Here is a link to the ATB kit in two sizes:
http://www.dutchbikebits.com/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=52
c) AXA offer a new kit, each side has two metal worm-drives and two plastic straps. The new kit was introduced with the new Victory lock and will also fit the Defender. It looks both logical and secure, and a couple of sets are on their way to me in the mail now. I have not yet seen them in person  but on the face of it, I favor these new mounts over all others for the AXA Defender or later Victory model ring-locks. All that is needed for installation is a screwdriver to make it a fast and straightforward operation. There may be a problem with missing the canti bosses or seatstay bridge, but I'll find out when mine arrive.
d) AXA (and others, including ABUS) offer mounts to place the ring-lock on your canti- or v-brake mounts. I don't favor this because the lock is outside the rear triangle and so vulnerable to some removal exploits that do not apply when the lock is trapped inside the seatstays. Trelock also offers a plastic mount that clamps the seat tube. That is considerably more secure against theft than a canti-mount but won't always work on bikes where there is a lot of space between the seat tube and rear tire due to long chainstays (Thorn). A special note for RavenTour and Raven owners: The canti mounts are unlikely to be compatible with the Rohloff cable stop used on the internal shifter on those two bikes. This does not apply to the Sherpa, which has a derailleur drivetrain.

To install one of these ring-locks on a Sherpa or RavenTour/Raven is pretty straightforward:
Depending on mudguard width, you may only need to drop the lock over the 'guard, fit the mounting straps loosely 'round the stays, bolt the lock to the straps, then tighten the straps, checking to make sure the lock is mounted evenly away from each sidewall and the lock hasp clears the bottom the rim. Done.

In more extreme cases, you might need to deflate the rear tire or even remove and reinstall the wheel a couple of times to initially fit the lock. If the mudguard is wider than the *opening* of the lock, you will need to remove the rear wheel and approach the 'guard with the lock sideways, rotating it upright into the wider opening for installation. That's a one-time thing when fitting or removing.

Trying to mount the AXA Defender on the *Nomad's* larger diameter, more widely spaced stays required considerable modification to the AXA ATB mounts and the end result ultimately did not meet my standards for a secure fit -- it was fine in practice, but the minute "clocking" around the mounts bugged me and I feared it could pull free if a thief really pushed a loaded bike with the lock shut. That -- along with concerns over extreme mud clearance with 2.0 tires is what led me to the Trelock RS 450 Balloon model, which was just introduced late last year, along with the AXA Victory. It *just* fits my size 590M frame provided I reversed and inverted the Trelock ZR20 mounts. It is secure and there's no "clocking". These ZR20 mounts will also fir the AXA Defender and other ring-locks and are holding my old AXA Defender to one of my rando frames now. The use threaded brass inserts embedded in glass-filled nylon and are very secure.

Okay, here are the relevant links, Lewis...
Original topic asking of anyone had fitted an AXA Defender to a Sherpa:
http://thorncyclesforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=1944.msg9015#msg9015
My description of what I fitted to my own Sherpa and how:
http://thorncyclesforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=1944.msg19634#msg19634
My followup here with detailed photos showing the ATB "cup hook" mount:
http://thorncyclesforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=1944.msg19741#msg19741
A query I answered on how to mount the AXA Defender to a Nomad:
http://thorncyclesforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=6301.msg37831#msg37831
My cautions about Nomad fitting here:
http://thorncyclesforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=6301.msg37831#msg37831
My fully detailed procedure for fitting an AXA Defender to a Nomad's larger 19mm diameter, more widely spaced seatstays:
http://www.thorncyclesforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=4987.0
For balance, some Forum members have had good luck fitting ABUS Amparo 4850 ring-locks to their bikes. I did not care for some of the Amparo's features (and it is difficult to find this model with a captive key) and found the mount tended to "clock" 'round the stays a bit over time on my size 590M frame -- stay width where the lock actually mounts does vary a bit across frame sizes due to geometry. Hence my choice of either the AXA Defender/Victory for bikes with smaller seatstays and the Trelock RS 450 Balloon for my Nomad's large diameter, widely spaced stays.
JimK's treatise on his ABUS Amparo 4850:
http://www.thorncyclesforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=4148.msg18856#msg18856
My Sherpa Gallery with photos of the lock in place can be found here:
http://thorncyclesforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=3896.msg17095#msg17095

Hope this helps.

All the best,

Dan.
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: Danneaux on July 07, 2016, 09:11:54 PM
As an aside, I will order another Teelock RS 450 Balloon next week to put on my Tandem. Its 19mm stays are the same diameter as the Nomad's but spaced even more widely apart, so I will need to mill my own mounting brackets from aluminum billet to mount it -- a considerably more complicated solution than ready-made mounts!

By the way, ring locks are very handy on public transport  (i.e. on bumper mounted bus racks) and on trains and ferries. They prevent the bike from rolling and it cannot be freely wheeled while locked.

I sometimes don't bother with using my Click-Stand brake bands if I first throw the lock shut. Two birds killed with one stone if I'm standing near the bike.

Best,

Dan.
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: Danneaux on July 08, 2016, 07:23:50 AM
Closeup comparo photos of the two frame mounted ring-locks for those who wrote and requested them...

AXA Defender vs. Trelock RS 450 Balloon.

Best,

Dan.
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: Danneaux on July 08, 2016, 07:43:27 AM
AXA Defender bolt used to hold 10mm cable -- apart from the plug-in options. The same strategy will work for any ring-lock provided placement is correct.

This is how I hold the cable that secures my saddle, seatpost, and underseat tool bag and also my rear Ortlieb pannier anti-snatch tethers.

Best,

Dan.
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: rualexander on July 08, 2016, 08:18:06 AM
Hey Dan,
Do you have any knowledge about the susceptibility of these locks to corrosion over time?
The salt on the roads in winter here is bad news for any exposed steel.
What are the locking rings of these locks made of?
Cheers
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: Danneaux on July 08, 2016, 03:57:03 PM
Quote
Do you have any knowledge about the susceptibility of these locks to corrosion over time?
None except by some small-sample secondhand observation of friends' locks in Bavaria, where roads are also salted in winter. In those cases, the locks with exposed sliders at the side seemed more prone to visible salt damage/rust freckling than those with forward facing tracks ("forward" with the lock mounted inside the chainstays for greater security).

The plastic covers looked good, but it is entirely possible the steel cores were corroded and I just could not see them. The hasps carried some discoloration from salt water-drips when the bike was parked. My one friend mentioned the lock sticking a bit if he failed to oil it occasionally. These friends kept their "good bikes" in the garage until Spring and retired them for utility bikes at first snowfall.
Quote
The salt on the roads in winter here is bad news for any exposed steel.
I can only imagine the damage to bikes, given what it can do to cars. I'm lucky to live where wintry roads are sanded with grit made from crushed rock or lava rather than salt.

Corrosion resistance was of some concern to me, given my rides in alkali desert dust. In that environment, things have gone well with no outward signs of rust, but I really think these locks could be problematic with continued salt exposure. On the other hand, friends living along the The Netherlands' North Sea continue to use them without complaint*. However, there's a big difference between salt air and salty water splashed up from roads. I don't think these frame mounted locks could be expected to do well with continued exposure. I would imagine they could become sticky and eventually difficult to use as a result of rust.
Quote
What are the locking rings of these locks made of?
Since the sliding bolts are magnetic, it must be some sort of ferrous steel and not stainless. Each company has their own name for the steel alloys used. All the ones I've seen appear plated. Peering 'round the edges of the plastic casing, it appears the bodies are made from zinc plated sheet steel. The firm that co-designed the AXA Defender offers an "x-ray" view inside at this slideshow: http://welldesign.com/en/outdoor/outdoor-axa-stenman-defender-rl-bicycle-lock/  As with many locks, the plastic cover is part of the lock's armor and makes it difficult to fit bolt cutters 'round the exposed body. It also "styles" a pretty pedestrian looking product for greater shelf appeal.

You raise a really good point, Rual. I don't think these ring-locks would be well suited for continued exposure to road salt. If they remained mounted but unactuated so the bolt remained cloaked, I think they'd fare pretty well because they are so well shielded from the top and rear, but what good is an unused lock?

All the best,

Dan.

*Most Dutch bikes come equipped with the M5x0.8mm (bottle) bosses to mount these frame ring-locks to the seatstays. However, for those lacking bosses, the solution offered by many shops is not plastic clamps but a punch, drill bit, and sheetmetal screws(!). Grisly, but you see an awful lot of this on parked bikes.
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: Danneaux on April 13, 2017, 12:10:15 AM
Hi All!

A quick update to show you Seymour ("See-more") the Nomad is still wheeling along happily. We breezed along joyfully today, getting home just before the heavens opened with lots of thunder.

Best,

Dan.
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: Danneaux on April 13, 2017, 12:19:07 AM
Hi All!

Small updates and refinements continue to happen four-and-a-half years after delivery...

Came home from this ride determined to shave the head of my Trelock frame mounted ring-lock key. I used the Nomad a bit off-road today and the wet/muddy soil resulted in some gymnastics on the bike to keep things going straight. While the key head is normally not a problem, I did manage to strike it lightly with my heel a couple times...best to take care of it now.

Came home, revved up the belt/disc sander and went to town on it before drilling and countersinking a new hole for the small keyring that attaches the spiral wristband for keeping the key safe off-bike. I chose the key-retaining version of the Trelock RS450 Balloon lock, so the key remains in the lock while riding -- my assurance I will never forget the key. I take it with me on the wristband when off the bike, no pockets needed.

Best,

Dan.
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: mickeg on April 13, 2017, 03:42:24 PM
...
Came home, revved up the belt/disc sander and went to town on it before drilling and countersinking a new hole for the small keyring that attaches the spiral wristband for keeping the key safe off-bike. ...

My first thought was that some gram counters cut down their toothbrush handle to save weight, buy a spork so they can ditch the heavier spoon & fork combo, etc.  But I never considered you to be a gram counter.  I know you are not a gram counter, but I just had to make the comment.
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: John Saxby on April 13, 2017, 08:01:27 PM
Quote
I never considered you to be a gram counter.  I know you are not a gram counter, but I just had to make the comment.

Take care of the milligrams, and the tonnes will look after themselves... or something like that.  ;)
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: jags on April 13, 2017, 08:41:41 PM
gram counter right enough the more the merrier. ;D ;D

only joking Dan.


anto.
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: Danneaux on April 14, 2017, 10:52:03 PM
One of the joys of a heavy bike is anything added to it is a much smaller percentage of the whole compared to the same weight on a lighter bike.

I figure I can add awholebunchastuff to my 20kg Nomad and never feel the difference.  ;) ;D That's another thing that makes it a great expedition bike.
All the best,

Dan. (...who thinks of it all as "training aids")
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: Danneaux on February 04, 2018, 10:43:41 PM
A little update on my Nomad...

I incurred a puncture today and pulled the rear wheel to do a repair and to check on how things are doing with the Rohloff hub.

Good news: All is well. No real weeping beyond the slightest mist of oil on the shift-box that caught a bit of dust on the last logging road; even the dropouts are clean beyond my usual after-ride wipe-downs. My filling the external shift-box with Phil Wood Waterproof Grease has proven out in practice: No intrusion of water or dust and the grease has turned to a light oil where I hoped it would, enhancing sealing while preventing galling of the geared parts to the case/housing.

You may notice the screwed-on sprocket is back, once again replacing the splined version that had supplanted it. No particular reason except I am conducting some testing and experiments and needed it on for measurements.

Best,

Dan.
Title: Re: Danneaux's Nomad
Post by: jags on February 05, 2018, 03:18:00 PM
looks better than new ,stick up a few photos Dan of your nomad.

anto.