Thorn Cycles Forum
Technical => Lighting and Electronics => Battery Charging from a Dynamo => Topic started by: jags on January 28, 2012, 07:19:28 pm
-
just curious but is there a video instructions on how to fit the tout terraine plug 2 i did search but no luck.
thanks
jags.
-
jags,
Right here, my friend:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DvNmhmVJZ5w
Any questions, give a shout. It is a pretty straightforward operation. Just allow enough clearance to avoid squashing the head-unit connector; may involve adding an additional, thin spacer. I would also suggest getting their removable star-fangled nut replacement to facilitate future headset service and to ease installation. Well worth the extra USD$20 cost. Just use a bit of anti-seize when installing it to prevent galling.
Basically, you...
1) Remove your threadless headset top cap and place it in your spares bin.
2) If the "petals" on your star-fangled nut are aligned, feed The Plug2 wire down between them. If there is no path or you prefer Tout Terrain's replacement, remove the star-fangled nut and install the replacement. This is also the best choice for easy future headset maintenance, since it can be easily removed and replaced and you can leave the charger lead attached to your fork blade when you need to remove the fork. See: http://www.thorncycles.co.uk/forums/index.php?topic=3800.0
3) Feed the wire down through the bottom of the steerer and secure it to the fork blade.
4) Attach the wire to your dynohub using a piggyback connector. Piggyback connector pictured here: http://www.peterwhitecycles.com/wiringinstructions.asp
5) Check carefully for clearance of the connector above the star-fangled nut with the wire lead attached to the head unit to make sure it will won't be crushed on tightening. If insufficient clearance, adding a 3mm spacer should do the job.
6) Screw down the top bolt, angling The Plug as necessary for convenience or clearance.
DONE. If you also use a Thorn Accessory T-bar to mount a handlebar bag, you won't even lose your headset adjustment. Otherwise, the headset is adjusted as before, loosening the stem clamp bolts, tensioning with the top-cap (Plug2) bolt, and retightening the stem clamp bolts.
For more details, see: http://www.thorncycles.co.uk/forums/index.php?topic=3802.0
Pics, installed: http://www.thorncycles.co.uk/forums/index.php?topic=3896.0
Relevant company webpage: http://www.en.tout-terrain.de/accessories/electric-power-supply/
Installation and user manual: http://www.en.tout-terrain.de/fileadmin/media/pdf/deutsch/dokumentation/bedienungsanleitungen/The_Plug_II_Anleitung_de_en_05_11_V1.0.pdf (Illustration from the manual below)
Best,
Dan.
-
cheers Dan i'm still dreaming about all these add on's but i can see how this would be a grear addition to have .thanks Dan you were on the ball. ;)
just thinking dan pity you didn't have a video camera handy when you were building up your sherpa and explained in english, ah well to late now.
-
jags,
Edited my response to add a few more details since you posted. Pretty simple operation, really. Yes, it is a nice unit.
Best,
Dan.
-
Thanks Buddy your a star. 8)
-
Calling up our man DAN 8)
promise i won't ask again but i was looking at the sjs website for the tout terraine plug 2 and it seems its not just the plug but there seems to be a long tube that goes with it ,is this right.
i though you just feed the wires into the head tube and then connect the plug the plug is also the stem cap i would imagine. :-[
sorry dan for all these stupid questions but i've got to ask.
cheers
jags.
-
Hi jags,
The Plug with the tube that is currently on-sale at SJSC for reduced price is the original The Plug. It is here:
http://www.sjscycles.co.uk/tout-terrain-the-plug-hub-dynamo-powered-charging-device-prod23036/
After producing it for awhile, Tout Terrain came out with The Plug 2. It is smaller (only the top cap head unit) and has greater efficiency. It is here:
http://www.sjscycles.co.uk/tout-terrain-the-plug-ii-hub-dynamo-powered-charging-device-prod26498/ <-- This is the one I have.
I see SJS Cycles also has a listing for "Tout Terrain The Plug II Plus", currently a blank placeholder on their website at:
http://www.sjscycles.co.uk/tout-terrain-the-plug-ii-plus-hub-dynamo-powered-charging-device-prod27695/
This may be the elusive "The Plug 2 Extra Power" unit and The Plug 2. I still don't know anything more about the Extra Power except Tout Terrain say it can be added to The Plug 2 to give a higher output. I can't grasp how this is possible since the output of The Plug2 is regulated. We'll see as time passes and they write more on their website about it.
You wondered... ...the plug is also the stem cap i would imagine...
Yes, The Plug 2 replaces the stem cap. Just put the original in your spares bin in case you ever want it again.
jags...it's natural for questions to occur as a person learns more about these things, no worries; happy to help.
All the best,
Dan.
-
jags,
As I was writing my reply above, I heard directly from Tout Terrain regarding their add-on Extra Power unit for The Plug 2. Details here:
http://www.thorncycles.co.uk/forums/index.php?topic=3802.msg17371#msg17371
I'm guessing this might be the "Tout Terrain Plug Pat Power Cable for The Plug II" listed presently as a placeholder by SJSC here:
http://www.sjscycles.co.uk/tout-terrain-plug-pat-power-cable-for-the-plug-ii-prod27694/
Best,
Dan.
-
thanks Dan it had me totally confused ;D
-
Hi All! Just received the Tout Terrain Plug II with the P.A.T unit (the '+' bit). Just a quick question - does anyone know how to best fit the P.A.T bitty?
I assume that the star-fangled nut (SFN) needs to be removed to get this bit into the tube? Of can I push the SFN down so the P.A.T sits on top of it?
Is there enough room (in anyones experience) of fitting this?
Also, if I need to remove the SFN, does the P.A.T part just dangle from the Plug unit? Surely the cable connection between the two may pop out over rough terrain. Should I glue it in place? What about putting some foam round the P.A.T to keep it in position?
Grateful for any experiences and advice on fitting the Plug with the P.A.T! Sorry for the think out loud questions but I am excited with my new toy and keen to get it fitted in the best possible way!
-
I don't know about most of what you are asking but would advise against using foam to lodge it in place. The foam will hold moisture and potentially lead to corrosion from the inside out.
I once kept spare spokes inside my seat tube on a previous bike, held in place with foam, and the tube rusted right through at that point.
-
Hi Richard!
Congratulations on your new toy! I like mine as well, and need to install it on the Nomad as I did on Sherpa. The press of other matters has delayed things.
Yes, to install the PAT, you must remove the Star-Fangled Nut (SFN) and replace it with Tout Terrain's removable substitute. It is not required, but also a Very Good Idea if you use only The Plug2. If you don't, the sharp sides of the SFN "petals" can wear through the insulation on The Plug2 lead, causing a short. The replacement TT SFN is aluminum, so will require installation with anti-seize to prevent future problems and galling against the inside of the steel steerer. To make clear...while you can install The Plug2 alone with the original SFN in place, you must remove the SFN to fit the PAT or it won't fit in the steerer.
Please don't drive the SFN downward into the steerer, which is butted at the lower end and then blocked by the mudguard mount. It will cause you all sorts of grief trying to proceed from there if you do. Far better to remove the SFN.
Removing the SFN is easy if you follow my instructions here: http://www.thorncycles.co.uk/forums/index.php?topic=3800.0
As for what to "do" with the PAT...that's easy as well. When you first receive it, the power lead is doubled back on itself and held with a twisty-tie. Leave it that way, pulling out only the wire you need to make a connections at each end. The rest of the doubled lead will serve to gently wedge the PAT in the steerer, preventing disconnection and also preventing moisture from being trapped. Rual is absolutely correct in his caution to avoid foam, and you don't want corrosion to occur inside the steerer. If need be, you can use a fingernail-sized square of closed-cell foam on one side if the doubled wire doesn't do the trick. The closed-cell foam (part of an old camping mat) won't absorb moisture. If you do this, be sure to leave enough room for water to pass by and drain out. I'd avoid it is at all possible.
[By the way, a spoke holder hidden inside the seatpost will prevent the problems Rual had. I show the one I made here: http://www.thorncycles.co.uk/forums/index.php?topic=3896.msg18563#msg18563 Fitting a nitrile o-ring at the seatpost/seat tube intersection also does wonders to keep moisture out.]
I can offer a couple cautions most people seem to overlook when installing the TTTP2 with or without PAT:
1) When installing the top cap, be *sure* there is enough room between the snap-in electrical lead at the bottom of the Plug and whatever you use as a SFN before you tighten the bolt. TT's removable SFN replacement is at a fixed height...and there may not be sufficient room to clear the lead once the cap bolt is tightened. This occasionally leads (sorry) to broken connectors and the effective demise of the TTTP2. I "dry fit" mine very carefully, then usually add a 3mm spacer below The Plug (remember, The Plug also serves as the top cap for the spacer/bearing stack).
2) When routing the wires, be sure to allow for future headset replacement/fork removal. It may seem a dim-distant possibility now, but someday you'll need to replace the sealed bearing cartridges on your Thorn-fitted FSA headset. Remember, too, Thorn thoughtfully brazes a threaded plate at the bottom of the steerer for directly mounting mudguards. It leaves a small gap on each side for the wires to pass through. The Plug and PAT must be fitted into the steerer from above...the leads exit from below. To remove the fork, the connections have to come apart. I use Dean's mini-connectors at the ends to allow future service. They provide a very firm fit, are gold-plated, and are available at any hobby shop catering to the R/C car/airplane/helicopter/boat enthusiast. Details, part numbers, and links are here: http://www.thorncycles.co.uk/forums/index.php?topic=3896.msg17113#msg17113 Similar mini-/micro-connectors are available from other firms and vendors.
3) Though others have disagreed (due to the insulating effect on low-current connections), I have had stellar luck using silicone dielectric grease on the electrical connections to prevent moisture and corrosion problems. It isn't required, but works well for my needs.
4) If you test-fit the lot together, you'll probably find yourself needing to remove the connector from The Plug's top cap. Per Tout Terrain's tech notes, the connector really does pull directly outward and away using reasonable force and a couple strong fingernails on the connector, not the leads. There is no latch to undo; a direct pull on the connector removes it.
5) If things ever go really sour, it is possible to replace the connector and use telephone wire to replace the leads and I have helped several people do this with success. It is an involved procedure I won't take space to give the details here, but it is possible so keep that in mind if needed.
Best of luck, Richard. The installation requires some thought but is not as complicated as it first seems. I laid mine out on the floor the first time, then used what I saw to ponder and develop the routing. If you run into a rough patch, give a shout!
All the best,
Dan. (... who thinks you're going to like your new toy)
-
Dan
Thanks once again for the excellent info and wisdom! I have calmed down a bit now and have taken some time examining the Plug, P.A.T and other bits that came in the box. Several times I have watched the Tout-Terrain video, and read your excellent technique for removing the little blighter (SFN). A lot more confident now.
Your advice (and rualexander) to avoid using foam is duly noted. I have some very dense closed cell foam that I can use at a pinch if your 'folded wire' technique does not hold the P.A.T reasonably in place.
I have carefully checked the P.A.T to Plug connection and by pressing down the edges of the connector, the connection is actually quite robust, and with the light weight of the P.A.T, coupled with the cable fold to hold it in place, I am now confident that it will not come loose.
So, tomorrow I will remove the SFN and prepare the parts with a few 'dry runs' and cable measurements. It does not look as difficult as first imagined.
I see your point about leaving enough room for the lead at the bottom of the plug. I have plenty spacers to cover that.
Having recently wired up my front and rear lights with Schmidt co-axial cable, I have plenty connectors left and intend to make fork removal easier with such a connector arrangement. I cover the electrical connecters with a film of vaseline, then some heat-shrink over the top. Has worked well with the lighting cabling.
Thanks for reminding me of the galvanic corrosion issue with the steel form and aluminium plug. I have Copperease for this, however have read somewhere that using this can still cause dissimilar corrosion and that an aluminium based anti-seize would be better. I think Park Tools have a bike specific product. Any thoughts on Copperease in this in this situation Dan?
Thanks again for the info! Will reveal my experience of fitting the plug when all done!
Best
Richard
-
Any thoughts on Copperease in this in this situation Dan?
For aluminum-to-steel, I generally prefer to use a high-temp anti-seize intended for brake parts. It is silvery in color and while I have not looked at the MSDS on the latest bottle, I think it probably contains graphite, molybdenum, and perhaps some aluminum as a similar brand did. In my car-mechanicking days, I found copper-based anti-seize was less effective in that application, so I switched.
I am beginning to think the effectiveness of a given anti-seize may depend in part on local environmental factors, such as humidity and the presence or absence of salted roads. For the UK, there seems to be an overwhelming preference for Copperease or CoppaSlip, and both appear to work well. Here in 'Merka's upper-left corner, the high-temp brake grease/anti-seize seems to have an edge.
For some applications, I prefer molybdenum disulphide grease, a favorite brand being what Honda use on motorcycle suspension links and on car transmission sliding applications.
I'd give the Copperease a go, since that's what you have on hand.
You'll do fine, no worries! ;D
All the best,
Dan.
-
Thanks all. Fitted the Plug II without a problem. Star fangled nut came out easily and copperease was used with the tout-terrain nut. One fold of the cable lodged the P.A.T firmly in the steerer.
I have wired it up to a B&M Dymotec 6 bottle dynamo. Its a great little dynamo and powers the B&M lights well. There are four connectors on the dynamo, two live and two neutral. The lights are connected to one set, and the Plug II to the other. I went for a 50km ride on Sunday taking the PowerMonkey extreme battery with me. With no load, the light on the plug II comes on and stays on at 5km/hr and above so I thought, great, plug it the PowerMonkey extreme. However the Plug II light flashes on and off as does the PowerMonkey display even up to 20km/hr. It appears not to be charging the battery.
Searching the forum, I may have found the answer (and its a long one!!!) here ...
http://www.thorncycles.co.uk/forums/index.php?topic=3802.0
Wading through all of Dan's great information on that topic at the moment. I have decided to take all devices that I intend to power with the Plug II and test them individually from the Plug II USB port, from the PowerMonkey Extreme, and from its solar panel. I will put my results on the other topic as they relate to experiences with the Plug II while this topic is more about fitting (jags original question).
So far I have found that my basic mobile phone (Nokia 2630) also does not charge from the Plug II USB directly but the Freeloader Pro does.
I am of course concerned that I am not able to charge the PowerMonkey Extreme from the Plug II USB! I will continue to report my findings here.
-
Hi Richard!
Briefly, here...
You may have one of the faulty PAT units occasionally reported; the "blinking green indicator" can be a symptom if it flashes with no load attached. Somewhere along the line, you may wish to try the same setup briefly with the PAT removed. If your gadgets then charge (albeit at a higher speed), the culprit may be the PAT. The Plug2 can still be good even if the PAT is faulty.
Glad the lot installed without incident. Your testing methodology is sound and you'll know more After. Feel free to give a shout if you run into problems.
All the best,
Dan. (...who expects Richard will get a charge out of this new system)
-
Dan
Testing, testing!
I tried a couple of quick test with a couple of direct attach devices this evening.
1: eneloop USB charger with two AA batteries installed : The Plug II + green light constant and USB blue charger light flashing at 14 km/hr. Charging!
2: Ampercell Solar Razon (with solar panel obscured). The Plug II + green light constant and razor red charge light constant at 7 km/hr. Charging!
Results repeated and achieved with a different cable.
I then directly attached the PowerMonkey Extreme (PME) and at speeds of up to 25 km/hr the Plug II + light still flashed, except on one occasion where it seemed to work!! ???.
Note: with no device attached (unloaded), the Plug II + green light is constant at 5 km/hr and above, so still not convinced the P.A.T. is faulty. I expect the PME to charge at 25 km/he - it does not when attached to the plug II + USB port >:(
I have ruled out a faulty cable and PME as the PME directly charges most of my devices. It also charges well from it's solar panel (low full Winter Sun this afternoon with the solar panel showing a good, if low, charge).
Looking at the Plug II + documentation, I should get USB 5V/500mA at just under 14 km/hr, and without the P.A.T. (+) at just under 20 km/hr.
Dan, I think your idea of removing the P.A.T. from the equation is a good one.
What I plan to do is go to a long flat straight nearby and try direct attaching each of my devices (including the PME) and observing where I obtain a constant green Plug II + indication and a positive charge indication on the device. The speed will then be noted and tabulated.
I will probably then remove the P.A.T. (as you advise) unit and repeat the tests.
This should indicate whether the P.A.T. unit operation is at all in question.
Thanks for your continued enlightened advice Dan!
Best
Richard
-
Terrific update, Richard; you're doing all the right things and should soon be rewarded with success!
If you have access to a cheap volt-meter, that would help greatly for checking output. If you were nearby, I'd give you one; the local Harbor Freight store gives them away with newspaper coupons occasionally.
There's a couple more things to check if all else fails...
• Despite appearance and careful workmanship, there can be a poor connection midway in the wire. Y'know how the wire arrives folded into hanks and then held with a twisty-tie? Those folds are done by machine, and sometimes the wired can get pulled-apart midway so just a few strands are passing electricity. [EDIT: Scratch that. Applies in some cases, but not this one; the behavior doesn't support it.]
• I'd sure like to see what the little bottle generator is actually putting out for voltage at a given speed. Hmm. You mentioned two connections...have you tried switching the leads for the charger and light? I don't think it is the case with your B&M, but I have seen some bottle generators where the second set of leads is intended for lower-capacity taillight duty.
Diligence will be rewarded! So sorry you're having problems; these are usually straightforward, no-problem installations, but every once in awhile... :-\
All the best,
Dan.
-
Richard,
I've put a bit more thought into this and re-read your posts...at last count, it appears your setup is working pretty consistently for most of your gadgets except for the PowerMonkey Extreme. You also mentioned...I then directly attached the PowerMonkey Extreme (PME) and at speeds of up to 25 km/hr the Plug II + light still flashed, except on one occasion where it seemed to work!!
Hmm. Thinking aloud, I wonder if this is caused by the cutoff circuit in the PME. See comments below the video posted here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TL8dXeZt1io
Typically, The Plug 2's green indicator will flash in cases where demand exceeds what it can supply. The PME changes it's own chanrging behavior when the battery charge reaches 30-50%.
The PME specs indicate an input voltage/current of 5V 0.5A-3A, but I wonder if that remains constant. It would sure be interesting to hook up the PME to the Plug2 and see if the PME's state-of-charge affects the apparent power draw on the Plug2, and if/when the Plug2 power indicator light flashes to indicate over-demand.
Best,
Dan.
-
Dan
A few results just in!
First thing I did as you suggested and switched the leads of the lights and the Plug. Lights working as before and The Plug II + green light coming on as before at about 5 km/hr. I think the B&M Dymotec 6 treats the two connections as the same. There is no mention of any difference in the detailed manual.
I loaded up my handlebar bag with all the devices and set off. First I connected the PowerMonkey Extreme (PME) as I live at the top of a hill!
I freewheeled to a speed of 26km. The PME green light still flashed. The PME was switched off before starting the roll down hill. On accelerating, the PME display comes on, and turns red as the green light of the plug flashes, then the PME display goes blank as the plug light goes off. The cycle repeats itself at a constant speed of 26 km/hr. In other words the Plug ii + does not charge the PME.
To put myself in a better mood ( :-\) I attached some devices directly. The results so far ...
Steripen Freedom - Begins charging at 12 km/hr
eneloop USB charger and two AA batteries - begins charging at 14 km/hr
Freeloader Pro unit - begins charging at 18 km/hr
eTrex 30 GPS - power received at 7 km/hr and above (unable to charge the unit due to its design)
Ampercell razor - begins charging at 7 km/hr
In other words, I am happy with the dynamo, lights, and the Plug II + (with respect to direct attached devices tested so far). In respect to the PME and Plug combination I am not happy.
I viewed the video and repeated the test with my Steripen Freedom and PME battery. The PME had about 60% charge and plugging the power in caused the PME to charge. The Steripen did not stop charging. Same with the PME solar panel supplying power to the PME. No problem. I will try again when the PME capacity drops below 30%.
The consolation of all this so far is that I can use the Freeloader Pro as a cache battery. I did however buy the PME specifically as my cache battery so tests and research will have to continue. I do think however the PME is an excellent unit but don't want to rely totally on solar or mains power for recharging.
Will probably remove the P.A.T.unit next and let you know what happens. Next stage may have to be the voltage meter.
Cheers for now
Richard
-
Terrific report, Richard. "Science" (and scientific method) would be proud of you!
Fingers crossed for success with the PME ahead...
Best,
Dan.
-
Interesting article about The Plug II + here ...
http://www.crazyguyonabike.com/doc/page/?page_id=272869
-
Interesting article about The Plug II + here ...
Indeed! I have seen this, and think it a fair appraisal overall. The one thing I would clarify is the impression that Supernova has replaced Tout Terrain as the maker. In fact, TT is still the active maker, and has also licensed The Plug2+ to Supernova for marketing.
Richard, I have spent part of the morning doing some experiments myself, and I have an additional suggestion you may wish to try for charging your PME: Leave the PME unplugged till you get up to speed and have a solid green light from The Plug2...then plug it in. The Plug 2 takes a bit to get "up to speed" in producing full voltage and current. In my morning's experiments with high-draw/high-drain gadgets, I found if the gadget is drawing near or past the upper limits of the TTTP2 at start, it can trigger an initial overdraw indication (flashing green LED) if it is plugged in at startup. If you wait 'till it shows a full charge available, it seems to better tolerate the higher load.
I don't know how one would manage with the stops and starts of cycling if that proves to be the case with your PME...maybe a little inline SPST switch you could flip once up to speed?
Best,
Dan. (...who can never resist a good puzzle of this sort)
-
Dan
Me too ... I need to find the solution to this puzzle!
Will give your tip a try tomorrow. Thanks!
After a bit of time on Google I found an interesting PDF file on Tout Terrain's site. It appears to have no link from the main pages. I have basic German
but what I see looks a bit of bad news (if I have translated correctly!). The PowerMonkey Extreme is listed near the bottom of the page as tested device.
I have attached the PDF file. How's your German?!! ;)
Feeling a little smug about my detective work by the way!
-
Feeling a little smug about my detective work by the way!
You can be real proud; y'done good! This will be very handy for others in future, me included.
Looking at the entry for the PowerMonkey Extreme, the headings translate as follows (thank you, GoogleTranslate):
Wheel size: 26"
Plug version
Organizing type (i.e. kind of device): Accumulator (storage battery)
Model: PowerMonkey Extreme
Functionality...
Invites (?): No "X" <-- Uh-oh
Operation: No "X" <-- Really uh-oh
Device status (state approach)... Nothing <-- Not lookin' good
Approach: "keine Ladung möglich funktioniert ab ca. 32 km/h mit und ohne PAT" which very sadly translates to "No charge can work from 32 km / h with and without PAT".
What happens when (by exit speed) km/h: "No charge can work from 32 km / h with and without PAT" <-- Waaah. :'(
Stop: No entry
Reapproach (Resume): No entry
...and three nulls for each version of The Plug
Oh noes! Sad day! Richard, it does not look good. Waaah. Crying right along with you!
Best and sadly,
Dan. (...who thinks knows Life is not always fair, but would still try plugging the PME in once underway to see'fitwerks)
-
I think you're going to have to give Dan's idea ago, as the text translates as
No charging possible, works at above ca. 32 km/h with or without the PAT cable.
Which probably means that the PME draws too much power or is very much borderline with this regard.
/Andy
-
mmmm ... thought so though I think 'x' denotes that it will function. All devices with an 'x' have a minimum charge speed indicated, and based on my limited tests, The plug II + matches up with these figures for other similar devices.
It was the lack of an 'x' next to then PowerMonkey Extreme that grabbed my attention!
I agree - the small fact of the three 'o' markings next to the entry. 'o' for 'oh no' maybe, when other devices get a star rating!!!
Next to the PME it says 'keine Ladung möglich funktioniert ab ca. 32km/h mit und ohne PAT' which I translated as 'no load or function up to about 32km/h with and without PAT'.
Well I just better plug it in and find a really steep hill, get over 32 km/hr, and note when the green light comes on! May require some concentration to avoid a crash!
After I found the PDF I sent an email to Tout Terrain to ask if they had any detailed results of testing with the PME. Stay tuned for the reply!
In the mean time this evening I have established that I can charge the PME from the Freeloader Pro. So using the Freeloader Pro as a cache battery I can top up the PME (as well as using solar or mains power when available). Shame to carry two cache batteries but I need the Freeloader Pro with its 9v setting and CamCaddy device to charge camera batteries.
Sadly realising that charging the PME from The Plug II + may not work after all :'(
-
Andy - you posted as I posted! Yes, a bit more playing about required before admitting defeat!
-
Well it does not look good for the Plug II + charging the PME. Email just received from Tout-Terrain ...
Hello Richard,
we have a tried a PowerMonkey Extreme battery and it needs a relative high speed to be charged. We got it to work from speeds of 32 km/h. To give you a comparison, a different model of the Powermonkey series started charging from 12 km/h or higher.
The Powermonkey Extreme is listed with an input of 5V 0.5A-3A, which sounds alright. But the problem with many batteries is that they always go for maximum power. They check how much the power source can generate and the maximum they want is more than a dynamo can produce. That means you get into an infinite loop and no charging will happen.
Kind regards
Felix Mücke
I am currently searching the internet for an inexpensive cache battery that will allow devices to be charged while the cache battery is being charged from the Plug II + at low speed. At lease I know my Plug II + is working properly!
-
Thanks for the followup, Richard; sad news indeed, but you're right -- at least now you know it is not the fault of the TTTP2+, so that is encouraging. I so wish things had worked out to charge the PME as you'd hoped.
As for cache batteries...I have been considering a small one to handle the "tiny charging" duties in rotation to free up The Plug for charging other things...something like this, but a bit larger in capacity:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/251169279828?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649
Best,
Dan.
-
Yes, shame as I specifically bought the PME for touring. So the PME must be trying to draw its maximum input of 5V 2A Max (as stated on the PME unit). I am going to email Power Traveller and get some more info. The PME is solid, IP67 waterproof and dustproof, great capacity - I would really like a way of charging it from the Plug II + ::)
Dan, is there any device you know of that would plug between the The Plug II + and the PME to maintain 5V 0.5 - 1A for example? This would solve the problem of the PME drawing too much and 'trick' the Plug into stepping down the current drawn to get that green light on.
I like the small extra battery in your link but cannot find in the UK. I did however order a 5000mAh battery today that looks good and at a great price ...
http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B000NDQ92W/ref=oh_details_o00_s00_i00?ie=UTF8&psc=1 (http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B000NDQ92W/ref=oh_details_o00_s00_i00?ie=UTF8&psc=1)
By the way, with one bar showing on the PME, I repeated the experiment with the Steripen Freedom as mentioned above. Even though I have the very latest PME (end 2012), as in the video the Steripen Freedom stops charging from the PME if the PME itself is put on charge when remaining charge is low.
Regards
Richard (who is still not giving up just yet!)
-
Dan, is there any device you know of that would plug between the The Plug II + and the PME to maintain 5V 0.5 - 1A for example? This would solve the problem of the PME drawing too much and 'trick' the Plug into stepping down the current drawn to get that green light on.
...Working on that now...wondering if it might be possible to daisy-chain accumulators so at least one was ahead of the PME. Trouble is, it would take forever to charge the lot even if it worked.
There's just not a lot of voltage/current to work with, and devices are getting ever more power-hungry. In response, USB 3.0 bumped up not only data transfer rates, but current (now rated to 900mA/0.9A, up from a nominal 0.5A).
I have also been playing with the B&M e-Werk I have here, and so far...no, it doesn't appear it would charge the PME either, so hold off on thinking about getting one of those. If the PME does indeed go for max power beyond what a dynohub can supply (and there's every indication that is indeed what is happening), well, the same situation would obtain and the limitation would indeed be the dynohub just as TT say....as in the video the Steripen Freedom stops charging from the PME if the PME itself is put on charge when remaining charge is low.
<nods> Yep, a "feature" of the PME's charging program. If its own battery is low, it "decides" to bump-up its own charge before allocating a charge to any plugged-in device. Not a bad choice for the designers, as it means the "fuel tank" gets replenished first, allowing it to run untethered as soon as possible. Richard (who is still not giving up just yet!)
Good on ya! You have my support.
Best,
Dan.
-
Richard,
I can't begin to describe my cobbled-together test rig, but it appears (from what I can see with various dummy loads) that if there is a semi-charged accumulator of some sort (i.e. rechargeable storage battery) between the TTTP2 and an over-drawing load, the TTTP2 doesn't go into an over-draw state...at least until the midpoint accumulator begins to run down.
It "works", but only for awhile. It is akin to robbing Peter to pay Paul, and in the end everything goes flat (or fails to charge) as the dynohub and TTTP2 can't supply the needed current to keep up. It might be different in practice with the PME replacing my dummy load, but I think the end result would be the same.
Best,
Dan.
-
There were a couple of cache batteries recommended on another site that I took note of, both of which can charge at the same time as being used to charge stuff.
http://www.tekkeon.com/products-tekcharge1860.html
http://www.hypershop.com/HyperJuice-Mini-7200mAh-Battery-for-iPhone-iPad-iPod-USB-s/165.htm
Those are US sites, but I found them over this side here http://www.solariflex.com/batteries-portables/266-batterie-usb-tekkeon-mp1820.html and http://www.systo.co.uk/electrical-equipment/batteries-accessories/rechargeable-batteries/sanho-hyperjuice-mini-hj72-red.html
There's also a smaller version of the Hyperjuice http://www.systo.co.uk/electrical-equipment/batteries-accessories/rechargeable-batteries/sanho-hyperjuice-micro-3600mah-hj36-red.html
I haven't used these so can't recommend personally but here's the guy that did recommend them http://www.tiredofit.ca/2011/03/19/pedal-powered-electronics-charging-system/
Richard, I have the Technet battery from Amazon, it's ok but can't be charged and discharge at the same time, and the level indicator lights are not very reliable.
-
Ru
Some great suggestions thanks!
I should receive the TeckNet iEP 380 battery in a few days so will report my findings. At the price (£15), I can always use it for something else 'off-bike'. Its a small price for a little bit of experimentation!
I did look at the Hyperjuice Mini and originally that was my battery of choice. It's input is stated as 5V 1A. After my PME experience (input 5V 2A max) I am a little hesitant to buy one until someone reports that it can charge from the Plug II + at a reasonable speed. I am also looking for it to 'through charge' devices while the battery itself is charged from the Plug II +.
The Amazon description of the TeckNet iEP380 states "No AC Charger is included, but TeckNet iEP380 is compatible with original iPhone AC charger or Other 5V 500ma-1A USB Charger" inferring that it may charge at 5V 0.5A or 5V 1A (or between).
Ru, if you say it works ok, at what speed does it start charging?
-
While waiting on the TeckNet battery I noticed that the supplied rubber plug for the USB post pops out when on rough roads or off-road. I think it is a bit flimsy. I found these that look more solid (dust proof and splash proof). There may be a modification coming soon!
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/5x-Black-Silicon-Splash-Proof-USB-Type-Socket-Dust-Protector-Plug-UK-Stock-/300797672113 (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/5x-Black-Silicon-Splash-Proof-USB-Type-Socket-Dust-Protector-Plug-UK-Stock-/300797672113)
-
Ooh! Nicely found, Richard; nicely found indeed! ;D
Best,
Dan. (...who is casting an acquisitive eye toward that eBay listing)
-
Dan, I have sent the two thread links concerning 'The Plug' to the very helpful and responsive Felix at Tout Terrain so that he can follow user feedback (if he is not already doing so!).
Best
Richard (hoping everyone still says nice things about The Plug II +)
-
I have sent the two thread links concerning 'The Plug' to the very helpful and responsive Felix at Tout Terrain...
Good idea, Richard; as Administrator, I am often contacted by manufacturers who monitor the Forum for just such feedback, and who graciously respect guidelines and refrain from using the Forum to openly promote or advertise their products.
The Forum is a wonderful tool for manufacturers to freely gather feedback on their products and to see how they perform in the field for real users, over time. The Forum is an ideal resource for refining and improving products and for getting QC feedback!
Best,
Dan.
-
A response from Felix at Tout Terrain ...
Hello Richard,
thanks for the two links!
The Smart Power Pack that we are working on is no secret. We have shown it at Eurobike and you can find all the details in our catalogue.
It’s not actually a new version of The Plug, but an addition. We didn’t integrate a battery into the Plug itself, so that you can also use it off the bike.
Kind regards
Felix Mücke
Here are the links to the new catalogue ... online ...
http://issuu.com/toutterrain/docs/katalog_tt_anha_nger_zubeh_r_2013_final_web/31
and as a downloadable PDF ...
http://www.en.tout-terrain.de/fileadmin/media/pdf/deutsch/kataloge/Katalog_TT_Anha__nger_Zubehoer_2013_final_web.pdf
It looks like the new Plug is actually an addition to the existing Plug which is good news to those like me who already have the Plug II +. It is a specifically designed cache battery for the Plug II +
Due first half of 2013.
Looking deeper into this and already feeling recharged!
-
Excellent, Richard; well done!
I've surely been pleased with my TTTP2 setup. I also have the B&M e-Werk to compare. On balance, I'd say neither is clearly "better" than the other because they serve different needs. The TTTP2 installation is "cleaner", worry-free/failsafe, and more resistant to casual theft. The e-Werk has more freedom in placement, can be readily moved from bike to bike, has djustable output (in both voltage and current) and comes with cabling for a variety of gadgets.
Looks like the day of practical on-bike charging is here at last.
Great news about the TT cache battery -- it's on my list!
Best,
Dan.
-
Dan, yes. I think the TT cache battery will be excellent. He also told me that it will operate at three different settings (automatically I assume) so that it will charge at a range of speeds, including at slow speed.
Now I see the next step in the evolutionary process as a 5000mA battery, in a similar round format, that can be mounted inside the steerer under the P.A.T., or better, a battery/P.A.T. combined unit. This would allow devices (e.g. GPS) to continue to be powered/charged when you stop for lunch!
Just an idea Felix! ;)
-
Danneaux. Some interesting comments about the continued relevency of the e-werk. On my Sherpa build dynamo charging was the most difficult choice to make.
Option 1 : New B&M luxos u with integrated charger : very neat but with it very integrated ( read nickable)
Option 2 : tout terrain plug : Very neat but can't be moved from bike to bike
Option 3: new B&M usb-werk neater than the e-werk as it has an integrated cache but messier than Option 1 & 2
in the end i went with the e-werk as i wanted to be able to use it on my more light duty tourer as well ( a claud buttler black diamond sold byb SJS Cycles before they started making their own bikes). On its arrival it is smaller than i thought it would be and fitted to the underside of my stem is not at all obtrusive. now
-
gover_1 - yes, I have considered the B&M solution and I like it. What puts me off is the variety of settings and the possibility of selecting the wrong setting and potentially damaging a device or the battery. Still in the back of my mind though!
Dan, I have found something similar to your handy battery here in the UK ...
http://www.amazon.co.uk/CostMad-Emergency-Lifeline-Universal-Blackberry/dp/B00BBX0KQE/ref=sr_1_110?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1362776775&sr=1-110 (http://www.amazon.co.uk/CostMad-Emergency-Lifeline-Universal-Blackberry/dp/B00BBX0KQE/ref=sr_1_110?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1362776775&sr=1-110)
It is interesting that both your link to the 2200mAh battery and the one above is that they resemble the Tout Terrain cache battery soon to be released. I think they are all made by Guangdong Pisen Electronics Co Ltd ... (first flash picture) ...
http://www.pisen.com.cn/ (http://www.pisen.com.cn/)
It would be interesting to know how Tout Terrain have modified the design for use with the plug II +.
My the way, the USB silicon plugs are a good tight fit and work very well ...
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/5x-Black-Silicon-Splash-Proof-USB-Type-Socket-Dust-Protector-Plug-UK-Stock-/300797672113 (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/5x-Black-Silicon-Splash-Proof-USB-Type-Socket-Dust-Protector-Plug-UK-Stock-/300797672113)
Just need to look at cutting off the Tout Terrain thin insert (retaining the rest of the rubber bit) and to finding a secure way of attaching the new plugs.
SuperGlue?
-
Hi Richard!
Given the low cost, I have considered getting an eBay 2200mAh cache battery just to play with. Even if it didn't recharge from the TTTP2, it would come in handy as a spare. I did notice the outward similarity! I suspect TT employs some changes to allow charging from flat at a lower demand rate. Of course, it lacks the nifty TT mount, but I could live with putting it in the HB bag for charging.Just need to look at cutting off the Tout Terrain thin insert (retaining the rest of the rubber bit) and to find a way of attaching the new plugs. SuperGlue?
The TT "cap" is held on with a tiny roll pin, which can be driven out with a drift if you don't wish to cut it. As for the new cap, I haven't had luck "gluing" things to silicone except with silicone, though SeamGrip does sorta-okay. If you Google "seam-seal silnylon", you'll get lots of suggestions. I think I would try making a mechanical leash for the new cap, using the original TT rotating washer to tie a thin nylon cord or nylon coatmaker's thread. The end of the cord could be inserted into the new silicon cap using a needle and tied-off with a knot to prevent loss. The other end could be tied to the TT rotating washer (it can be gently prised off and replaced to make working on it easier).
I'm giving some serious thought to making a little "shower cap" for the TTTP2 top cap, secured with elastic at the bottom. The idea would be to slip the cap on when it is really raining hard. If I get the design right, it would allow continued charging in the rain as well as keeping the connection dry when the bike is parked.
All the best,
Dan.
-
We are working on the same wave length Dan! I have already started looking for a nylon chord and doing just as you say. Probably a better solution than the silicon glue approach.
I have also considered an 'extreme' Plug II + rain cover though I have tended to shy away from that so far due to my limited haberdashery skills!
The phrase 'extreme haberdashery' has just popped into my head! I have heard of 'Extreme Ironing' but ... oh dear! :-\
http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=extreme+ironing&hl=en&client=safari&rls=en&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=splMUc6LLYzcPfbsgLgF&ved=0CDsQsAQ&biw=1440&bih=751 (http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=extreme+ironing&hl=en&client=safari&rls=en&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=splMUc6LLYzcPfbsgLgF&ved=0CDsQsAQ&biw=1440&bih=751)
Still a waterproof cover for the Plug II + is a great idea!
-
Further to the continued tinkering on this subject, I ordered a little plastic thing (Pisen for iPad) that was supposed to allow devices demanding more that 500mA to charge via a USB port. It was claimed that it would allow an iPad to charge from a normal computer USB port. Well for a small investment I thought it was worth a go.
There was a review of this adapter on Amazon which sort of sold it to me ...
Have used this for a while. True it does allow charging the iPad from low current USB ports, but false that it converts the 0.5 amp output to 2.0 amps. Unless the USB plug has native 2.0 amp output available, this violates a law of thermodynamics concerning perpetual motion!
What this item does do is to fool the iPad into thinking it is getting a 2 amp charge and allowing the charge, although slower by a factor of 4, to proceed.
So if you do not mind a slow charge vs a regular charge, then this device is for you. I have 10 of them, I like them, but I also know what they are and are not.
If your ipad takes 8 hours to recharge from zero, then using this from a low power USB port will take updwards of 20 hours. Does for my ipad 3.
But it does charge. Where other adapters will not.
I just wish they did not call it a switching power supply. That it is not.
UPDATE/CORRECTION(The switching power supply description is from other sources on the internet for this item. I have purchased these from Amazon as well as from other sources).
The results so far indicate that even at speeds of up to 30km/hr, the PowerMonkey Extreme does not charge from the Plug II + with this adapter. Interestingly, I found that other direct attached devices did charge at speeds of 1 or 2 km/hr less while using the Pisen for iPad adapter so may be slightly useful.
So not the solution to the problem of charging the PowerMonkey Extreme from the Plug II +! :'(
'Pisen' in the Wind? (http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=pissing%20into%20the%20wind (http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=pissing%20into%20the%20wind))
This is the adapter in question ...
-
Thanks, Richard!
As it happens, I was thinking along these same lines myself, so your research is invaluable. The review you quoted is a very fair description. So sorry it didn't do the needed job for you wrt the PowerMonkey Extreme.
I'll keep my eyes open for anything that might do the trick and report here immediately.
Best,
Dan.
-
The consensus seems to be that with the Tout Terrain The Plug II (with P.A.T.), a cache battery with 5V 500mA MAX input is required so that it can be charged at a lower speed (8-10 km/hr).
Bearing this in mind I went on a hunt with my (inter)net and 'captured' the Sanyo Mobile Boost KBC-L2B. I have not ordered one yet. Advantages seem to be:
1: 500mA MAX input
2: 2 x 500mA output (or one 1000mA output that can charge an iPad or tablet)
3: Good form factor
4: High 5000mAh capacity
5: Can also be charged via AC mains supply (adapter supplied)
http://www.eneloop.info/eneloop-products/mobile-booster.html (http://www.eneloop.info/eneloop-products/mobile-booster.html)
Specification and manual:
http://www.eneloop.info/fileadmin/web_data/Manuals/Mobile_Booster_KBC-L2B/L2B_manual_ENG.pdf (http://www.eneloop.info/fileadmin/web_data/Manuals/Mobile_Booster_KBC-L2B/L2B_manual_ENG.pdf)
There is also a 2500mA version with one USB 500mA output available - the KBC-L3A model.
Just heard this morning that Panasonic is to cut back its Sanyo staff and is considering closing it completely. I hope this does not happen
as in my experience the eneloop batteries are some of the best rechargeable batteries around.
-
Hi Richard!
I'm moving forward in this direction as well, with some interesting results. The consensus seems to be that with the Tout Terrain The Plug II (with P.A.T.), a cache battery with 5V 500mA MAX input is required so that it can be charged at a lower speed (8-10 km/hr).
In a word, "Yup".Bearing this in mind I went on a hunt with my (inter)net and 'captured' the Sanyo Mobile Boost KBC-L2B. I have not ordered one yet.
A really nice unit to be sure, Richard. Do keep in mind the bedeviling problem attendant to bike-charging high-capacity batteries -- it takes forever and three days, generally, to replenish these "bigger buckets" (I tend to think of the whole matter of on-bike battery charging in terms of buckets and paper cups of water. Makes it much easier for me to visualize). Sometimes, the initial demand needed to activate charging is too much for a bike-charger to overcome. More about all this in a bit.
The one hitch I can see involves Sanyo's current (sorry) uncertainty -- indeed, survival -- in the market. They have not filled dealers' orders for their outstanding USB AA/AAA charger for the last six months, at least, and now all stocks are depleted with no expected order-fulfillment in sight. I love mine, but wish semi-desperately I had purchased another. What made it really special was Sanyo's "pulse-charge" design that works in partnership with their absolutely superb Eneloop design. They have been producing batteries for Sony's label and I yet hold hope Sony may bail them out, but their corporate ownership by Panasonic works against that: http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/05/17/us-sanyo-divest-idUSBRE94G0S020130517
Meantime, I have purchased a little 2200mAh buffer battery from an eBay vendor in an attempt to replicate Tout Terrain's storage battery on the cheap. It cost less than USD$8 including shipping. See: http://www.ebay.com/itm/350752301805?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1497.l2649 I just got my TTTP2 + PAT hooked up on the Nomad and will see how it charges. Hopefully, its initial charge demands won't exceed what the TTTP2 can supply; I was careful to keep to the same rated capacity as the TT buffer battery, but the charge-triggering/initiating circuitry may differ. I will be testing it this week as time allows. The square case is hugely helpful to prevent rolling when you lay it down on a flat surface.
That said, the early results with it are disappointing, not in absolute terms, but in terms of meeting my needs. Remember the water bucket and paper cup analogy above? Well, the little cache battery offers an output of 5vdc @ 0.5mAh (or 500mA), so I'm set there. The trouble comes when I hook it up to the Eneloop USB charger. The Sony-branded Eneloops I'm using have a capacity of 2500mAh *each* compared to my Eneloop-branded versions at 1900mAh, and the charger is pretty fast for its capacity. There are some charging inefficiencies in Ni-MH batteries (as much as 1.6x difference), so when I hook the charger up to the buffer battery, it drains the buffer dry in a wink if the AA cells are truly flat -- and it takes 3 *hours* to charge the buffer battery to capacity even from mains current at 5vdc @ 0.5mAh. In comparison, my little Kyocera SE47 "dumb" phone's battery pack is only about 910mAh, so it charges up fine. Given I can get about 2.4 phone charges from the buffer battery, this pencils out pretty well in that use. For recharging these AA cells in this charger...not so much.
Week's end should see a Joos Orange solar charger/buffer battery in my hands. On paper, it looks to be the hot ticket, thanks to a replaceable Li-po (lithium-polymer) buffer battery and a very efficient monocrystalline solar cell. Except for some reported fragility issues in the mini-USB connection on some examples, it appears to be otherwise robust and adapter tips promise it capable of recharging an iPad. There are some problems for my use. It weighs about 1.4 lbs. It has only one hanging/tethering loop (why not more?!? Four or at least two would have been such a help) and it requires their bespoke pigtail at the panel end to work properly. Unfortunately, I don't have an iPad, and the netbook is at the moment undergoing its second round of warranty repairs at the hands of HP (its battery drains in storage when in the machine but stays charged indefinitely when out of the netbook. They keep saying it is a battery issue, but it sounds like a short in the machine's charging circuit to me...Oh! The doorbell just rang and FedEx has delivered it back again. Fingers crossed it will be okay. For USD$228 new with 2GB of RAM, a 320GB HD, and Win7Pro, it was a bargain...but only if it works) so I can't directly test claims of iPad charging. The netbook does have higher charging requirements than the iPad, beyond what I can readily replenish on the bike, but I can carry a spare battery and the built-in keyboard needs no separate power supply. Dual-booting on my own customized version of Linux should extend battery life a bit beyond the rated 9 hours maximum -- enough service life to work for journaling, wifi 'net surfing, light photo editing, and video storage if I play Power Vampire and top-off at mains power outlets along the way.
My goal with it is to supplement the *two* SON dynohubs (one on the bike with TTTP2+PAT, the other on the Extrawheel trailer with a B&M e-Werk chosen for mounting in that application and because it has adjustable voltage *and* current) by charging the Joos Orange's storage battery to capacity during the day...and then using it in turn to top-off my gadgets while in camp when I'm not riding/charging by dynamo.
Part of the bugaboo I/we face is the long on-bike charging times. Sure, if the device is within the bike charger's capacity to allow charging to initiate at all, then recharge times are identical to mains recharging times for a given voltage/current. And that's the downside, too. If the device has a huge battery, the days may not be long enough to keep on top of needs. One either as to ride more, use less, stretch charging over a couple long days with rationing, take a vacation from gadget use, or top-off immediately to compensate for use (most devices can't be charged *and* powered at once; the energy requirements for that are well beyond what a dyno-charger alone can supply, and begin to push the capacity of a buffer battery. Remember the water analogy...even the buffer battery will eventually go flat if one is away from mains-replenishment long enough, as in the case of touring areas).
Part of the problem with on-bike versus mains charging is you only have one charging outlet. At home or in a motel you can have three, four, or more gadgets on the boil attached to each electrical outlet/wall-wart charger. I carry three cube chargers for this purpose and start plugging in and swapping devices as soon as I reach a motel. I usually just stay the night, and that sometimes means setting the alarm to get up and swap devices as they charge overnight. On the bike, they have to queue up and wait their turn one at a time. Here's an example of how long charging can take for some of my carried gadgets, assuming all appliance batteries are completely flat:
• 3 hours = 2200mAh eBay buffer battery
• 8 hours = (2) 2500 mAh AA cells in Eneloop charger
• 2.5 hours = 910mAh cell phone battery (it has an unusually slow charging circuit *in* the phone, where charging must take place as there is no external charger available. I made the pigtail USB adapter that allows dyno-charging).
This means 13.5 hours of charging to bring these three items up to full charge from dead flat if each uses the single available bike outlet in turn. That's a pretty long day of actual cycling -- remember, charging only takes place when actually rolling above the required speed, so no charging during lunch, rest stops, or during "Breaks Naturelle". What it means, practically, is something has to always be on-charge while moving to top-off and account for any losses in use. My goal in "electrifying" the trailer (in this case, that means equipping it with a charging system of its own) is to overcome the limitations of a single outlet (a buffer battery does that to a degree as well). In the same amount of time, I have doubled my charging capacity, and so made it easier to keep up with demand. I may also come to feel like a hamster on an exercise wheel.
The idea of supplementing all this with a solar-buffer combo is to get a *third* outlet that will allow charging in my off-times, while lounging around camp, while cooking dinner, while sleeping in my tent. The idea is to partially discharge the solar-buffer during downtimes to top-off and replenish my gadgets' use during the day.
Even with a buffer battery, many gadgets won't charge from flat in a reasonable timeframe before their use is needed once again -- and they can't usually be charged and used at once. That means a specified downtime without use unless you're faithful about topping-off the charge on your high-use/high-demand gadgets. I've tried to acquire as many gadgets as possible that use AA/AAA cells to allow charging batteries outside the device so I can still use my gadgets while charging, and plan to use my charged battery spares as my buffer batteries for those gadgets. After all the batteries can be swapped between gadgets and charger as need demands. It is also most efficient to charge them by pairs (the bike charger can handle *a* pair, but not 2+n for charging, and only charging 1 AA/AAA battery alone is an inefficient use of time). Right now, here's what I have:
AA Cells:
• GPS (2) *critical item* Terrible battery life depending on use.
• SteriPen (4) - I decided against the CR123-powered model due to the charge times and difficulty in finding rechargeable spares. *critical item* when needed, but use/demand varies with availability of potable water. Swills batteries in use.
AAA Cells:
• LED head-mounted camp light (3) 65 hours' use.
• LED blinky for bicycle (2) 65 hours' use.
• MP3 player (1) 11 hours' use.
• AM/FM/Weather radio (1) 23-65 hours' use depending on band.
All these need to be charged in (1) Eneloop charger with a capacity of (2) batteries at a time. I have other AA/AAA chargers, but they're far less efficient than the Eneloop, which is why I've been trying so hard to source a second one...or a third.
Embedded battery:
• Panasonic rechargeable electric shaver (probably the most energy-efficient on the market for this purpose, allowing 2 weeks of quick-shaves on one charge...and no need for water or soap/foam, a plus in the desert when I also have to conserve water).
• Flip digital video camera About 35 minutes' recording time on a fresh charge.
Removable batteries requiring in-device charging:
• GoPro vidcam batteries. Battery life depends on use.
• Sony and/or Panasonic camera batteries (both are primarily still digicams, but the Sony shoots 1080P full-HD video and does GPS geotagging and auto-tracking and the Pana does 720 HD video, and all of this simply swills batteries. CIPA ratings for still photos is about 320 shots/charge.
• Kyocera SE47 "dumb" CDMA phone *critical item* with analog emulation for use with older cell towers I am likely to encounter. Battery life depends on distance from towers (the phone ramps up to full power when trying to establish a distant connection or when searching if entirely out-of-range. I usually leave it off when not talking for this reason). Standby is 2 weeks in an urban setting, with about 7-8 hours' talk time in those conditions.
I do have a Chinese-sourced clip-on battery charger that will allow me to top-off at least the Pana batteries outside the camera and possibly the Sonys as well...and maybe the GoPros; I am still sorting this out. To keep on top of use, I will pre-charge all my batteries from mains power at home, and carry spares for these. I will have 3-6 spares for each camera and a half-dozen or so for the phone. Cumulative battery weight is a real issue for me, but is critical to avoid downtime in sometimes heavy use or as a reserve for critical-use items like the GPS, water purifier, or the phone. Hopefully, the solar-buffer Joos will help there by adding a *third* charger and outlet and allowing me to charge while off the bike or at rest.
The Joos Orange reviews well, but there are some potential problems, and the primary question remains as to practical capacity for my needs, particularly with regard to bringing a pair of my high-capacity AA cells up from flat on a given single charge of the Joos. From all I can see, the Joos can only be brought to about 85% capacity by pre-charging on mains power, and requires solar to get it to 100% (The Word, secondhand from Joos, though it is unclear why). If the Joos' buffer Li-po buffer battery is flat, it will take a good 12 hours to bring it alone to full charge. Slave-charging from a partially flat Joos makes it hard to stay on top of (dual) demand. Again, it is a practical matter of available charging-hours during a given day. While the Joos claims the Orange will charge even under water or in rain, it charges at its fastest rate only in bright sunshine. And there is that potentially weak connector to worry about as well...
Here are some links for the Joos Orange:
• At MacWorld expo: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tp1MsXNvUFs
• In operation: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rPkVUkePmPI
• Charging in rain: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wnk-3R5IbFM
• Versus GoalZero: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wnk-3R5IbFM
• Tech specs: http://solarjoos.com/tech-specs
• Wikipedia entry on the company: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SolarJOOS#The_company
• REI user reviews: http://www.rei.com/product/837625/joos-orange-portable-solar-charger
• Amazon user reviews: http://www.amazon.com/Solar-Joos-Orange-Portable-Charger/product-reviews/B005NK7ZAA/ref=dp_top_cm_cr_acr_txt?ie=UTF8&showViewpoints=1
As Andre has pointed out, I never used to consider such things. Decades of my touring took place before cell phones were invented, and my cameras had no need for a battery beyond the light meter. I took a flashlight and a couple spare AA cells and called it good, letting the old Union 9814 bottle generator serve dual duty as power for my bike lights and as a drag brake going down steep hills (I came to think of it as my Portable Headwind). Careful pre-planning, map, and compass took care of navigation duties and pills or boiling fixed the Bad water. I was amazingly happy and never gave Bicycle Power a second thought. Ah, Progress; it comes at a price, doesn't it? That, and being Connected. Humph. Bringing it all to get away from it all!
Best,
Dan.
-
Dan
So much to digest as usual! Thanks for your input. I can see this topic is one of your passions. We need a modern electrical system for bicycles!
The one hitch I can see involves Sanyo's current (sorry) uncertainty -- indeed, survival -- in the market.
I have just noticed that the eneloop.info web site is no longer mast-headed with Sanyo. Its now Panasonic. I am sure the site said Sanyo yesterday!
I love the eneloop products so much, as others do, that I am sure they will be continued even if they are called Panasonic eneloops!
Meantime, I have purchased a little 2200mAh buffer battery from an eBay vendor in an attempt to replicate Tout Terrain's storage battery on the cheap.
They are available here too on the UK eBay site and at that price, I may go ahead and order a couple (after your test results which I await with bated breath!) I recently purchased the Nokia DC-16 but of course it has an input rating of 1000mA so does not start charging until about 21km/hr. Your find certainly looks better.
I already have the Powermonkey Extreme (PME) battery with the small 3W solar panel. I also have a Goal Zero Nomad 13.5W which is a fantastic panel. I use this larger panel to charge the Powermonkey Extreme and it works well. Perhaps the small battery you have connected to the The Plug II PAT, in turn the Powermonkey Extreme connected to the small battery. If you leave home with both batteries charged, The Plug could keep it topped up, together with a good solar panel, and the occasional motel, or long lunche in a 'powerful' restaurants and cafes!
On a windy night you would of course utilise the 'front wheel sail' and dynamo ;) (how is that project going Dan?)
I see your point on the bucket and cups of water. For any given increase in bucket size an increase the paper cup size is required. Two dynamos will indeed help!
Week's end should see a Joos Orange solar charger/buffer battery in my hands.
I look forward to your findings on that one. Solar would be an obvious choice for your desert rides Dan. I had a good look at the site and it does seem a great unit. It seems to only be available in the US and Canada at the moment. I will not be rushing on that as the PME and Nomad solar panel is good for me so far.
Yep - may just have to reduce the gadgets on tour!
All the best
Richard
-
Hi Richard!
Plummeting temperatures and torrents of rain have temporarily halted my on-bike electrical testing 'cos everything is laid out in the open Ortlieb HB bag where I can monitor results as I ride -- several meters, patch cords, unshielded connections, and the like -- and the lot doesn't get along well with water. I'm dying from anticipation here, awaiting results on how the little eBay storage battery will charge, among other things.
I'm also awaiting arrival of the Joos Orange; it should arrive no later than Friday the 24th. As for tethering it to the bike, the leading candidate at the moment is self-adhesive zip-tie/cable anchors affixed to the back side: http://images3.cableorganizer.com/adhesive-clips-bases/images/01-adhesive-base_red-cable-tie.jpg The're available in big-box DIY chain stores and electronics/wiring suppliers here in 'Merka. I'll have to test and see if the pad adhesive will withstand the high temperatures they'll see in my use; I'd hate to have them come free and lose the thing somewhere on the road behind me. I love the eneloop products so much, as others do, that I am sure they will be continued even if they are called Panasonic eneloops!
Me, too! Wonderful little batteries. Remarkable capacity and they keep their charge for a long time in storage!may just have to reduce the gadgets on tour!
Oh, the horror! :o Today's luxury is tomorrow's necessity! ::)
Updates as soon as weather allows.
All the best,
Dan.