Thorn Cycles Forum

Miscellaneous => Insurance => Topic started by: Danneaux on October 23, 2011, 02:21:25 AM

Title: Thorn serials registry -- good, bad, or even possible?
Post by: Danneaux on October 23, 2011, 02:21:25 AM
Hi All,

Thinking more about the horrible consequences of theft,  I wonder if it might be possible for Thorn itself to establish a registry of serial numbers cross-referenced by owner name and contact information. Information could be provided by owners on a voluntary basis, and if the list were secured properly, it could be quite safe (otherwise, it could provide a nice shopping list for thieves).

A search of this forum shows a person in Spain kindly purchased a possibly stolen Thorn in hopes of reuniting it with its owner and made every effort to do so.   See:  http://www.thorncycles.co.uk/forums/index.php?topic=2338.0  The same thread revealed Thorn currently maintains no cross-referenced owner/serial database.  I wonder if it might yet be possible to establish one.  A quick look at my invoice and receipt from Thorn show no serial number noted there.  I found mine was stamped on the left side of the bottom bracket, and have noted it for my records.  If that information could be filed with Thorn, it might serve as a central clearinghouse in the event a Thorn is noticed or even recovered by other forum members.  The bikes are rare enough here in the States that I have hope someone might Google the name and come across this forum.  If they could then contact Thorn who might in turn notify the bereft owner, then perhaps bikes and riders could be more readily reunited.  Certainly, we forum members seem to have a well-tuned radar for spotting Thorns even amidst other makes, so it could only help.

Thoughts?

Best,

Dan.
Title: Re: Thorn serials registry -- good, bad, or even possible?
Post by: jags on October 23, 2011, 05:43:21 PM
excellent idea. ;)
Title: Re: Thorn serials registry -- good, bad, or even possible?
Post by: doug on October 23, 2011, 10:34:52 PM
Ditto - indeed an excellent idea.
Title: Re: Thorn serials registry -- good, bad, or even possible?
Post by: Cedric on October 24, 2011, 01:30:09 PM
It seems that Moulton bikes have such registry. You feel like buying Bentley or smith.
Title: Re: Thorn serials registry -- good, bad, or even possible?
Post by: Danneaux on November 22, 2011, 06:12:05 PM
Oh! 

Here's a template of the secure online form used by Rivendell, a manufacturer/distributor of frames based in Walnut Creek, California.

Something like this might well fill the bill for us Thorn owners seeking a serials registration database:

https://www.rivbike.com/Articles.asp?ID=323

Hopeful,

Dan.
Title: Re: Thorn serials registry -- good, bad, or even possible?
Post by: Danneaux on November 22, 2011, 06:51:59 PM
And another, though not via an https connection:  http://www.diamondback.com/register-your-bike/

Dan.
Title: Re: Thorn serials registry -- good, bad, or even possible?
Post by: Milemuncher on November 22, 2011, 07:00:04 PM
Sounds like an excellent idea.
Title: Re: Thorn serials registry -- good, bad, or even possible?
Post by: pwat on January 15, 2012, 09:16:33 PM
Registry sounds like an excellent idea. 
Members fearing security issues could leave just their mobile number &/or email address to avoid the "Thieves' Shopping List" problem.
Title: Re: Thorn serials registry -- good, bad, or even possible?
Post by: richie thornger on June 17, 2012, 01:52:21 PM
As an owner of two used Thorns this would be great to help the buying process as well as if yours is stolen.
Title: Re: Thorn serials registry -- good, bad, or even possible?
Post by: Danneaux on March 04, 2013, 01:52:27 AM
Hi All!

I have been giving this matter some more thought and figured I'd crowd-source my idea by running it past you all, figuring someone might stop me if I'm about to make an unforeseen mistake.

I've received PMs and emails from a number of you wishing there were a Thorn serials registry.

I thought about offering to establish and maintain such a registry myself. I'm located in an area with few if any other Thorns on a continent remote from most of you so I am an unlikely security risk, but there still could be problems. The basic idea is sound, but not the execution.

Here are my current thoughts:

There is already a Thorn Cycling Forum...and this is the only one. We (members) are already registered and access the forum using a screen name and password. Many of us have put photos of our bikes in the Gallery section. So far as I know, none of this has resulted in a Thorn being stolen.

So, what if I were to start a new Forum topic titled, Thorn Ownership Registry, and those who wished could post their frame serial number, the model and color and details of their bike, and their Rohloff serial if applicable? The information would be keyed to our screen identity and in the event a bike were stolen, members *and guests* would be able to check the serials of any new purchase against the Forum registry to see if a bike was already owned. In the event it was, the owner could be contacted here by registering as a regular member and sending a PM to the owner.

The SMF Forum software date-stamps each post and by being overt, ownership of a given serial would be established before the world at a given date (I assume we each have our receipts of some sort to back up our claims in the event of theft and to prevent false ownership claims). Anyone including law enforcement officials could simply view the relevant Forum Board, check the date stamp, and verify a claim of prior ownership to a recovered bike and match the description and serial to any found or offered for sale illicitly.

Participation would be voluntary and those having second thoughts could always delete their entry just as they can delete any of their other posts. Posts could also be updated by the original poster by using the "Modify" option to reflect a legitimate sale, new ownership, trade-in to Thorn/SJSC, or loss due to fire/flood/damage.

I can't see how a Forum registry could be readily keyed directly to our addresses and used as a "shopping list" for thieves. Rather, by making an overt claim of public ownership, it should be easier to establish rightful ownership if there is a dispute or in the event of a theft and subsequent recovery. The Registry would persist as long as the Forum, and the Forum already comprises a de facto owner's club, a site where enthusiasts of the marque are likely to check. Many of us regularly check eBay for used Thorns, and collectively we are more likely to spot a stolen Thorn than the general population -- especially if we have some basic information to reference.

Here's a sample entry for what I have in mind; these fields would seem to cover pretty much everything that is needed:

Owner: Danneaux
Bike: Thorn Nomad Mk2
Frame Serial: 590Mxxxxx
Frame color: Matte black
Rohloff hub serial: xxxxxx, black
Brief description: Rohloff hub, drop-'bars, Brooks B.17, black mudguards, SON dynohub, F/R Thorn racks, all black components

How does this strike you? Thoughts? If things look good, I will move forward.

Best,

Dan.
Title: Re: Thorn serials registry -- good, bad, or even possible?
Post by: JimK on March 04, 2013, 03:00:40 AM
It's a bit like the black vs yellow choice in Nomads. Try to be invisible or try to stand out.

My decision point seems to have passed long ago. It'd be difficult to be more visible than I have made myself!
Title: Re: Thorn serials registry -- good, bad, or even possible?
Post by: Andybg on March 04, 2013, 08:08:43 AM
My personal view is that it would be a good idea. Not only will it give a date stamped record of bike ownership it would be a very interesting source of seeing who rides what and how they have it set up. Maybe to make it of more value maybe we should try and include a few more details like frame size, height of rider, tyre choice etc.

I know it would take longer for each entry but would be a very good resourse in one area.

As people dont have their adresses up here I dont think it really would be at all that helpfull as a resourse for possible theifs.

Andy
Title: Re: Thorn serials registry -- good, bad, or even possible?
Post by: ianshearin on March 04, 2013, 09:01:52 AM
Gets my vote, sounds like a great idea.

It would have to be on the premise that it is a enthusiasts registration, so not a definitive list of official owners.

A thief for instance could register on here and then register a stolen bikes details and then use the site to convince a buyer the bike is genuine.
Title: Re: Thorn serials registry -- good, bad, or even possible?
Post by: IanW on March 04, 2013, 02:21:25 PM
Hi all,

The idea gets my vote too. This forum is a definite and obvious point of reference to enquire about the provenance of an apparently secondhand *Thorn* cycle.

But I have a few questions/observations:

1) How does this idea handle the case where *one* forum user owns *more than one* Thorn cycle?
(I.e. it would be daft to have to "invent" a second forum identity to simply register a second Thorn cycle)

2) Does the security of access to this data adequately prevent someone looking up details of currently legitimately owned Thorn cycles, *not* to target a theft, but to clone the existing identity onto another stolen Thorn cycle? (And purport to be the reputed owner on this forum thus giving the sale legitimacy?)
I.e. does anyone and everyone on this forum get *browse* access to the data?
Or are they only allowed to make a specific previous owner(s) enquiry when they specify a specific serial number

3) How about, in addition to Dan's already excellent suggested data, for each registered cycle, including:
    a) An (approximate) date of purchase
    b) Type of transaction (e.g. "bought new from Thorn" or "bought s/hand [from xxxx]")
    c) Thorn frame size code
    d) Date of sale or onwards transfer to new owner *to be filled in only when cycle is sold/transferred*
    e) Date of disappearance/theft *to be used in the very unfortunate event thereof*
    f) Last known location *to be filled in only in the event of theft*

4) My Thorn cycle is also tagged with some additional "security" identifiers (Datatag)
    and there are plenty of other cycle registration schemes out there.
    So it might be useful to record multiple of these alongside the Thorn cycle ownership record

Finally, and people may have mixed views either way with this one:

5) The ability to lodge a photo of owner and cycle in with the "ownership record"
    Such a photo is then ideal to print and submit to the police in the event of theft,
    along with all the other bicycle identification information all taken from this ownership record.

Just my 2p-worth
Ian
Title: Re: Thorn serials registry -- good, bad, or even possible?
Post by: Andybg on March 04, 2013, 02:38:23 PM
Some good points there Ian and some questions that need answering before we go ahead with the idea. My thoughts would be:


1) How does this idea handle the case where *one* forum user owns *more than one* Thorn cycle?
(I.e. it would be daft to have to "invent" a second forum identity to simply register a second Thorn cycle)

I am thinking that Dan's idea was just to have it as onother forum topic so you could either put all your bikes under one post or have a single post per bike.

2) Does the security of access to this data adequately prevent someone looking up details of currently legitimately owned Thorn cycles, *not* to target a theft, but to clone the existing identity onto another stolen Thorn cycle? (And purport to be the reputed owner on this forum thus giving the sale legitimacy?)
I.e. does anyone and everyone on this forum get *browse* access to the data?
Or are they only allowed to make a specific previous owner(s) enquiry when they specify a specific serial number

I think that everyone would have access to the data both friend and foe. I think the only use of the forum in helping people not buy stolen Thorns would be to people who use the forum and would be able to find the bike on the forum and contact the member and say "is it you selling this bike?"

How about, in addition to Dan's already excellent suggested data, for each registered cycle, including:
    a) An (approximate) date of purchase
    b) Type of transaction (e.g. "bought new from Thorn" or "bought s/hand [from xxxx]")
    c) Thorn frame size code
    d) Date of sale or onwards transfer to new owner *to be filled in only when cycle is sold/transferred*
    e) Date of disappearance/theft *to be used in the very unfortunate event thereof*
    f) Last known location *to be filled in only in the event of theft*


I think there is an endless list of information that could be added or not dependant on the forum members choice so the more the merrier in terms of details is my thoughts but still based on one post per bike and keeping it to bike registration posts only.

4) My Thorn cycle is also tagged with some additional "security" identifiers (Datatag)
    and there are plenty of other cycle registration schemes out there.
    So it might be useful to record multiple of these alongside the Thorn cycle ownership record

Same as above


5) The ability to lodge a photo of owner and cycle in with the "ownership record"
    Such a photo is then ideal to print and submit to the police in the event of theft,
    along with all the other bicycle identification information all taken from this ownership record.

I think picture of bikes are very helpfull and the picture of the bike with owner sure makes it difficult for a theif to pretend to be you

Thers my thoughts for what its worth...

And dont forget we will need some STOP THEIF - This bike is Thorn Forum Registered -LOL

Andy
Title: Re: Thorn serials registry -- good, bad, or even possible?
Post by: Matt2matt2002 on March 04, 2013, 02:51:17 PM
Jeezo! Some great points being raised here.
Count me in when the dust settles and the format and info has been decided upon.

Andy supplied my bike with Pitlocks and they have to be registered if additional keys are required.
Not sure if someone wants to clarify how they do it. It may help?

What a great example of folk pitching in with their ideas and all constructive.

Matt
Title: Re: Thorn serials registry -- good, bad, or even possible?
Post by: Danneaux on March 04, 2013, 06:07:23 PM
Hi All! (I'll address this collectively for now)

Great points all, and exactly why I wanted to crowd-source the idea. We've a great collective resource in our membership, and lots of people have good ideas. Why not bring them together into a "better" end result? A great way to avoid pitfalls as well. I didn't want to wade in and find I'd unknowingly compromised myself, either!

I agree...if one is to be overt, then the more identifying/linking information the better (so long as a direct location cannot be inferred).

Some further thoughts...

In regards to fields...at the moment, I think it would be a good idea to have some standard data fields for all to complete (for quick access and scanning and to achieve some degree of standardization) and then leave the rest of the entry "open" for people to add info they think is important. This would achieve both aims: a quick-access ID <--> bike database + further identifying info.

The reason why I think a mix of standard text-form data and, say, photos is important is because Forum guests have different levels of access than do members. Guests cannot see attachments, for example. The registration process is pretty speedy, but it is also screened for spam. It would be nice if someone could simply access the Forum at guest level and quickly access the particulars, say to check a bike they were considering prior to purchase. I think the wider the access, the better. Yes! to More Information, but also Yes! to having the basics be universally available.

The more info to link owner <--> bike, the less chance of adulterated ownership. This is one of the concerns I had that led to my proposal. I recently read of a case here where someone effectively claimed ownership of property (complete with doctored documents) and the owner had to spend considerable resources proving prior possession. In the end, it came down to photos in  family photo album. Well, our gallery is a photo album of sorts, and one we can all look at and see, as can any registered member.

In the case of multiple Thorn ownership, I don't see why multi-bike info couldn't be included in the same record.  Ian, for example, could simply enter all his bikes in one post...or he could choose to do it in several. The latter might be easier in case you sold one, but I think it would work either way. There is one caveat...the date of editing is also logged on each post, but the incept/creation date is noted in each post as well, so that shouldn't be a problem.  I do wish there was a way to do this as an online spreadsheet, but I can't see a facile means to do so with Forum software and still keep it on the Forum and make it readily accessible to all.

I'd like to target this to the lowest-common denominator. Not everyone is computer-facile, so the process needs to be as easy as creating an ordinary post. My initial thought is to consider making the topic sticky so it is easily found (or perhaps even in a separate board) and then include the standard "forms" part in that so it can be easily copied, then cut-and-pasted into each entry, aiding standardization and easing the process (these issues are where the phrase "Oh, what have I done" pass through my mind...).

I think it is a great idea to make the database/registry a useful database beyond establishing identity <--> ownership, but I'd like to keep discussion to a minimum on the Registry, else it will soon devolve into just another topic and make it harder to use for its intended purpose. Maybe a note saying "Please don't comment on posts in this Board; all discussions should take place elsewhere" sounds awfully authoritative, but I do think this board topic would need to be "clean" and the entries stand alone for it to work well and be useful.

I think the size designator is part of the serial on all Thorns, but I'm not sure about older models. It was on Sherpa and it is on the Nomad, so I am hopeful this is a Universal.

Selling a bike on could be handled in a number of ways, but at the moment, it seems the most trouble-free might be for the original owner to simply delete their post (or delete that part of it for those who own multiple Thorns) devoted to that particular bike. Since the Registry is voluntary, the new owner could then decide to participate or not.

In the event of a theft, what about a separate topic for "Stolen Thorns" with links back to the owner's registry profile? The "Theft/Stolen" profile would contain full details of the disappearance and circumstances/location.

I think noting the presence and data contained on additional security tags is worthwhile.

I wouldn't want to include things like the Pitlock code that could somehow be used to leverage a replacement key. That would be like revealing my ring-lock key code. Yes, I have my ownership on-record at AXA, since I ordered a spare key, but I would feel much better if that info weren't Out There in the wild.

I think a pic of owner <--> bike is worthwhile...that much more info to establish a legitimate link between the two. I see this as ideally located in the "extra information" part of the registration record, to follow the basic standardized info. Since the Registry would be voluntary, people can individually make the decision to include as much or as little as they wish.

A sticker (as IanW suggested) is not a bad idea! If there were a means for them to be printed and purchased for a reasonable sum, it wouldn't hurt. I'm thinking something like Ian's suggested "STOP THIEF - This bike is Thorn Forum-Registered" followed by the Forum URL or the topic URL. Since this is all voluntary, people could choose to purchase a sticker or not. This is among several ancillary details that could be worked out later, but is secondary to the registry itself.

Thank you all! While I'm happy to forge ahead is all looks good and set this up as a topic, let's keep the discussion going for a bit to see if we can make it "best as possible" prior to establishment. The ideas (both positive and cautionary) being floated are excellent, and if we can spot problems early, they can be much more neatly addressed before launch than after. I'm really interested in any potential pitfalls, as those would need to be addressed first if the idea is to be successfully implemented.

Best,

Dan.
Title: Re: Thorn serials registry -- good, bad, or even possible?
Post by: IanW on March 04, 2013, 08:11:29 PM
Hi Dan,

1) Firstly, not that I think it is not a good idea, but the idea of a "sticker" was Andy's not mine, so he deserves the credit.


2) Given the idea of capturing the ownership "record" in, or indeed as, a forum email message sounds like a good idea of "keeping it simple".

    In fact I was thinking of how someone might actually perform the look-up.
    The enquirer has obviously managed to identify the cycle as a *Thorn* cycle and thus managed to find this forum.
    Then they probably know a) the *colour* and more importantly b) some "unique identifier" (i.e. the frame serial number)
    and only after that might they know the exact *model* of Thorn cycle

    So could ! suggest that:

    a) We *recommend* (but not mandate) limiting each email to contain the details of exactly and only *one* Thorn cycle?

    b) We highly recommend the format of the subject to be: <Serial Number> <Colour> <Model Name>

    Because this would make it easier to search and simply sort and visually scan through which I can imagine will become many such emails.


 3) I definitely agree that whilst it would be definitely useful to *note the presence of*
    additional security markings / registration schemes associated with the cycle
    this should *not* include the security identification *codes* themselves.
   
    After all this additional "registration scheme" is merely intended to be an additional layer of security that forms part of the federated ownership records.


4) I would also like to suggest that once someone has chosen to register their current ownership of a particular Thorn cycle,
    whilst they are perfectly and permanently at liberty to amend and/or delete completely their own ownership registration "record",
    they are encourage *not* to actually delete the email message, but instead to remove any personal information and update it with an end of ownership date

    Thus leaving what is effectively a cycle ownership history / log record that *stays with the cycle*.
    You never know, a new owner may not quite get round to registering it before it becomes the subject of a theft,
    and the old record is the only way that the ownership gets traced back to them.


Just (another) 2p-worth
Ian
Title: Re: Thorn serials registry -- good, bad, or even possible?
Post by: Danneaux on March 05, 2013, 07:03:27 AM
Very good suggestions, additions, and corrections, Ian; thanks.

I also thank one of our valued members who has emailed some concerns that should be considered carefully, as they may well prove a stopper in moving forward.

There is no anonymity if the screen name matches a real name. If locations are mentioned, there is a possibility of linking registry to owner and address. To prevent this, the registry would have to be secure from public viewing.

I do feel this is a real and valid concern, and we certainly don't want to create something that works at cross-purposes.

Thoughts? Suggestions? How might we overcome this obstacle; how might our goals be accomplished in a more secure manner?

Best,

Dan.

Title: Re: Thorn serials registry -- good, bad, or even possible?
Post by: JWestland on March 05, 2013, 10:33:06 AM
Hi Dan -

I am a little concerned the police may not accept this as proof.

There are serial registrations with firms in the UK, I am just not sure how the police reacts if the serial is already published for all and sundry to see.

(does anybody know?)

Other than that, good idea :)

And don't forget that any LA Cycles built Thorns will be in the stockbook! They are on Facebook and can tell you what year etc. your frame was built if you got it secondhand.
Title: Re: Thorn serials registry -- good, bad, or even possible?
Post by: ZeroBike on April 04, 2013, 09:38:10 PM
How is the proposed system any better than providing the police with the SN yourself if and when the bike is reported stolen?

All the details you need are in the handbook that Thorn provide you with.

Title: Re: Thorn serials registry -- good, bad, or even possible?
Post by: Danneaux on April 06, 2013, 07:23:50 AM
Quote
How is the proposed system any better than providing the police with the SN yourself if and when the bike is reported stolen?
Hi Zero!

Of course, if one's bike is stolen, it is best to provide the police with the serial number and information from the Thorn manual. However, the bike may not be recovered in the same jurisdiction in which it is reported stolen, especially if one is traveling or on-tour. Here, at least, police agencies don't share reports of stolen bikes. In my immediate area, property crimes are not nvestigated, and stolen-property reports are filed by the victim/owners solely for insurance purposes. If a bike is recovered and no theft report or associated serial is on file, the bike is sold at auction.

Also, if a database existed with a description and/or photos if the bike, it would provide a ready description to check against when purchasing a used Thorn or for identifying one found outside the area where it was stolen. It would be ideal for showing any police agency with online access a photo of the bike in question and a complete description. It would also help establish the existing identity of the owner apart from the information in the owner's manual. As we've recently seen, having a current photo of the stolen bike posted and available might prove helpful in looking for the bike and also provides an online repository for the description and photos that could then be printed and given to police and bike shops.

Best,

Dan.
Title: Re: Thorn serials registry -- good, bad, or even possible?
Post by: pault on October 31, 2016, 10:01:07 AM
Has this thread/idea gone cold?
I've got a '96 Audax (from new), and I'm considering a Mercury, and as I was rummaging around this forum I came upon this interesting idea  - having recently tried to date my 2nd hand Holdsworth it piqued my curiosity.
Title: Re: Thorn serials registry -- good, bad, or even possible?
Post by: leftpoole on October 31, 2016, 10:54:06 AM
Has this thread/idea gone cold?
I've got a '96 Audax (from new), and I'm considering a Mercury, and as I was rummaging around this forum I came upon this interesting idea  - having recently tried to date my 2nd hand Holdsworth it piqued my curiosity.

Cold? Positively freezing!
John
Title: Re: Thorn serials registry -- good, bad, or even possible?
Post by: mickeg on October 31, 2016, 04:06:19 PM
My community has an ordinance that you have to get a bicycle license and renew it every few years.  I always buy the license for a new bike, it is cheap and you get a sticker to put on the bike with your license number on it.  But I never bother to renew because nothing bad happens to you if you do not have a valid license, probably 95 percent of the bikes don't have one.  The sticker sticks on really good, to get it off you would probably remove the paint.

I think that even when the license is expired, the govt records will still show who owned it at that time.

Several years ago, my dad's bike was stolen.  A few months later he gets a phone call, the police have his bike from the license information.  It was badly damaged, but repairable.

The last posting in this thread before today was a few days before I ordered my Nomad frame.  That puts the age of this thread in perspective.  But, I already had my Sherpa for several years by then.
Title: Re: Thorn serials registry -- good, bad, or even possible?
Post by: Peter_K on October 31, 2016, 04:48:47 PM
In the Netherlands we have a "Fietsdiefstalregister (https://fdr.rdw.nl/)". That translates to "Bicycle theft Registry (https://translate.google.nl/?hl=nl&tab=mT#nl/en/Fietsdiefstalregister)".

Perhaps something like that should be made available worldwide. Alas the UN is too busy with other items (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CU8WFgoo3pc).

A difficulty is also the law: people should be made obliged to use such register prior to buying second hand bicycles.
Title: Re: Thorn serials registry -- good, bad, or even possible?
Post by: mickeg on October 31, 2016, 05:56:25 PM
... people should be made obliged to use such register prior to buying second hand bicycles.

I bought my Sherpa frame used, I asked the owner if he had documentation that he really owned it, he provided the paperwork that he got from SJS when he bought the frame new.  But I think that most people have no interest in trying to make sure that they are buying from a genuine owner.

If police agencies would make reasonable efforts to return recovered goods to owners, that would help.  But I suspect that most don't because it is only a bicycle in their opinion.
Title: Re: Thorn serials registry -- good, bad, or even possible?
Post by: Danneaux on October 31, 2016, 07:10:51 PM
I recently bought an older (2007) bicycle from a reputable pawn shop so I could use the frame for a project.

The shop is one of five family owned businesses in operation for 25 years and is top-rated by the local Chamber of Commerce and Better Business Bureau and has been a member of the National Pawnbroker's Association, and all the locations are active members of the Oregon Pawnbrokers Association throughout that period. Very good reviews and known for cooperating with police.

They required my photo ID for the transaction and made me wait for a criminal records check (I have no record.  :) ). I got a signed receipt.

Is the bike stolen? Possibly, but with all that, I do trust the shop checked with the local police as claimed to make sure it was not stolen.

Also this summer, I bought a *very* used MTB for USD$10 from a guy in a small town. After trying to sell it for a year (I saw the ads over that time), he just wanted rid of it before it deteriorated further in the weather and asked $10 for his time and bother in being home for me to pick it up. His small car had no rack so he couldn't take it to a larger town with a bike shop to sell it, and it was/is unridable. Bought by me for the frame, to be used in another project. I gave my own police department a call on their non-emergency line, but they told me they do not have a way to check their records unless the bicycle has been licensed with them previously and then reported as stolen. This had no license and was from a small town with no police force, so....

About 20 years ago, I bought a used road bike off a guy who came into my friend' used bike shop. He asked only $20, since it had been sitting in Central Oregon's snow and summer heat for two years when no one bought it at his yard sale (because only MTBs were popular in the area). He's raced the bike in San Francisco and broken the head tube (common fault for this brand) and had had it repaired by famed Bay Area framebuilder Al Eisentraut and had the receipt for the repairs. He gave me a signed receipt for the bike with a photocopy of his driver's license/photo ID.

In each case, I tried to do my due diligence, but wished I could have checked the serials against a database myself.  :)

Best,

Dan.
Title: Re: Thorn serials registry -- good, bad, or even possible?
Post by: RST Scout on February 04, 2017, 01:39:51 AM
I like the idea of this but am wary over who would have access to the information. Also, how would we be affected by the UK's Data Protection Act which applies even to clubs?

Just a thought.

Janet
Are we going to do it???
Title: Re: Thorn serials registry -- good, bad, or even possible?
Post by: Danneaux on February 04, 2017, 03:17:09 AM
Janet,

The idea has gone nowhere since I first proposed it about 5.5 years ago, so it seems unlikely to take off now.

Rohloff keeps a serials registry (little orange card you send into them) so the basic idea can and does work. If your registered hub is stolen, you notify Rohloff and they will snag it when/if it comes in for factory service.

Best,

Dan.
Title: Re: Thorn serials registry -- good, bad, or even possible?
Post by: RST Scout on February 08, 2017, 11:00:33 PM
Janet,

The idea has gone nowhere since I first proposed it about 5.5 years ago, so it seems unlikely to take off now.

Rohloff keeps a serials registry (little orange card you send into them) so the basic idea can and does work. If your registered hub is stolen, you notify Rohloff and they will snag it when/if it comes in for factory service.

Best,

Dan.

What a shame its not a goer but thanks for the tip about the Rohloff. I always register everything, washing machines, cameras etc. so will be sure to register with them. Shame we can't tag bikes with a chip like you dogs.

Janet
Title: Re: Thorn serials registry -- good, bad, or even possible?
Post by: lewis noble on February 08, 2017, 11:38:04 PM
Hello Janet - I think it is possible to chip a bike - Datatag do a product whereby a chip can be secured into the inside of the frame - not always easy to find an accessible location! - with stickers that identify and register the bike.

I have used them in the past, always seemed a good idea.  The latest datatag product looks different, the I D labels seem less obtrusive, which is good in one sense on an expensive frame but is it as much of a deterrent??

Datatag available from SJSC.

I put datatag stickers on my daughter's 'university' bike - after her first one, a new purchase Ridgeback, was stolen.  It was replaced by a 30 yr old Norco salvaged from a friend's cellar - a very basic 5 speed bike but suits her very well. Despite it's low value, I put datatag stickers all over it (I bought 2 or 3 packs discounted) and also made a label saying - All components chipped - which I zip-tied onto her rack.  So far, so good - not been stolen! - but how much that helped I don't know.

I think chipping is worth looking at.

Lewis
Title: Re: Thorn serials registry -- good, bad, or even possible?
Post by: RST Scout on February 14, 2017, 07:06:37 PM
Cheers, Lewis. I'll check it out.

Janet
Title: Re: Thorn serials registry -- good, bad, or even possible?
Post by: IanW on March 04, 2017, 01:23:18 AM
Hi Janet,

Both my RST and my spouse' RST are Datatagged.

I chose to buy motorcycle versions of the Datatag kits
which meant that each bike has no-less than 4 RFID transponders (frame, forks, Rohloff hub and SON hub)
the kits also included "data dots" which are basically tiny microdots in clear glue, so everything else on the bike is marked too.

I have also registered both RSTs with https://www.bikeregister.com (https://www.bikeregister.com) and http://www.bikeshepherd.org/ (http://www.bikeshepherd.org/)
(I keep meaning to register with https://www.immobilise.com/ (https://www.immobilise.com/) too. Maybe this post will finally remind me to get round to this)

We also keep up to date photos of our bikes on our mobile phones to make it easy to submit a lost / stolen report should the worst happen.
But we both do always use "2 good locks" (one being an Axa Victory dutch-style ring-lock)

Oh and wheels and stem-cap secured with Pitlocks and many of the standard allen-key bolts replaced by security hex bolts too.
Title: Re: Thorn serials registry -- good, bad, or even possible?
Post by: RST Scout on March 04, 2017, 07:52:32 PM
Thanks for that Ian. I'll have a look at your suggestions.

Janet
Title: Re: Thorn serials registry -- good, bad, or even possible?
Post by: energyman on March 05, 2017, 08:03:56 PM
All our family bikes are registered with Immobilise.com
The local police station sells the tags for bikes at 2/3rds off.
Come to think of it I may swallow one so if I ever get totally lost someone will find me...................
Title: Re: Thorn serials registry -- good, bad, or even possible?
Post by: RichardFM on June 12, 2019, 09:28:53 PM
If you are a member of Cycling UK then you can get 15% of at Bike Register
Title: Re: Thorn serials registry -- good, bad, or even possible?
Post by: energyman on June 13, 2019, 02:41:46 PM
All our family bikes are registered with Immobilise.com
The local police station sells the tags for bikes at 2/3rds off.
Come to think of it I may swallow one so if I ever get totally lost someone will find me...................

Update :
Well they did but no longer.