Thorn Cycles Forum
Technical => Luggage => Topic started by: Sinnerman on August 17, 2011, 07:48:32 am
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My assumption was YES, OF COURSE!!
However, I have since spoken to a few people that said they didn't take a lock because they didn't leave their bikes out EVER!!
Whilst I took on board the sense of keeping my new bike very secure - ideally in a locked room, I am still wondering what is the best solution.
Undoubtedly there will be times that I will want to jump off my bike to grab a bottle of water, roadside snack, ticket to somewhere or just to take a leak. Surely I don't have to take my bike into the bathroom with me! And what about camping? I know there's less chance of theft in the sticks, but still, I think I'd want to lock my bike up, no?
Also, I am getting the Ortlieb roller plus bags. Whilst I am not getting them for their anti-theft device capability, does anyone have any views on whether this is something they would use. Does it work?
Perhaps being from Oxford, (arguably the bike theft capital of the world) has made me paranoid, but I'd love to NOT lose this bike.
As you can gather, I am new to world touring on a bicycle, so any advice would be greatfully received.
Thanks in advance
Tom
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My assumption was YES, OF COURSE!!
However, I have since spoken to a few people that said they didn't take a lock because they didn't leave their bikes out EVER!!
Whilst I took on board the sense of keeping my new bike very secure - ideally in a locked room, I am still wondering what is the best solution.
Undoubtedly there will be times that I will want to jump off my bike to grab a bottle of water, roadside snack, ticket to somewhere or just to take a leak. Surely I don't have to take my bike into the bathroom with me! And what about camping? I know there's less chance of theft in the sticks, but still, I think I'd want to lock my bike up, no?
Also, I am getting the Ortlieb roller plus bags. Whilst I am not getting them for their anti-theft device capability, does anyone have any views on whether this is something they would use. Does it work?
Perhaps being from Oxford, (arguably the bike theft capital of the world) has made me paranoid, but I'd love to NOT lose this bike.
As you can gather, I am new to world touring on a bicycle, so any advice would be greatfully received.
Thanks in advance
Tom
Personal preference can vary of course... as can location. I'll share with you my annecdotal evidence...
When I cycled LeJog (my first touring trip), I was utterly paranoid, so always locked the bike when in shops/garages, taking panniers in with me, etc etc. Now, 5 years older and more chilled, I realise that a lot of people in the UK would steer clear of a heavily laden bike, both in terms of the bike and it's luggage. Plus, it is impossible to secure the entire bike whilst in a shop. Nowadays, I would still lock the bike up whenever possible, take bar bag with valuables in, and leave it at that. I would always lock the bike into a shed etc overnight though, as vandals could wreck a trip, even if just through botched attempts to steal a component.
I think I would do the same as above for most westernised countries (Europe, Oz, USA, etc). I can't speak for more remote countries... I imagine the same applies - take a lock for use when popping into shops, and take the bike into your room whenever possible overnight. You always run the risk of inquisitive kids in Africa, India, etc stripping the bike for souvenirs... not sure how to avoid that!?!?
Something I have heard recommended is to leave bike in top gear when parked outside shops... that way any thief would have trouble getting away (at least until they managed to change gear).
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Hi Tom,
I find myself with much the same question. (You have already found my query wondering how to best secure a SON28 dynohub under the Lighting section).
My big problem is I tour solo, so there is not another person to watch the bikes while the other goes into a grocery to restock and resupply. In nearly all cases, I stealth camp, and the bike is laid on its side for minimal visibility behind the tent, which is low and green/grey/black and also behind at least a screen of brush. Of course, I also tour largely in wilderness areas where theft is a minimal risk, but I don't like being surprised at night. I take a Kryptonite Evolution U-lock to secure the frame/rear wheel and a small cable to secure the front wheel at present, and lock it whenever I am in or near civilization. I am not happy with this solution. The problem is, the loaded bike means the panniers place considerable standoff between the frame and most secure posts or bike racks at the rear. I am thinking of going with a frame-mounted wheel ring-lock for the rear, and securing the front wheel/fork/frame to a secure post using the U-lock. The small cable would then be used to secure the saddle rails to the ring-lock. The trouble is, all this security hardware weighs a lot, and that adds considerably to the load. Everything else I carry does at least double-duty; the locks only serve that one purpose. I did add Ortlieb security cables to my front panniers, which always seemed more vulnerable to a quick snatch, sitting out there alone on the Thorn Low-Loader front racks. The release handles for the rear bags are buried under the rack-top load, so would take a little longer for a thief to snatch and grab. On the rare occasions I do book a motel here in the States, I lock the bike in my room when I leave on foot to buy groceries and resupply.
I do always place a wedge (Blackburn Stop-Block from the early 1980s) in the front brake lever to hold the bike steady whenever it is stopped. That helps. Also flipping the shift levers to achieve a cross-chain effect for a thief starting out on the bike helps. Another bike of mine is equipped with cantilever brakes. On it, I have two front brake quick releases -- one on the straddle cable (Dia-Compe product, again from the early-1980s) and another on the headset-mounted cable hanger/adjustable stop. They are adjusted in such a way that when I stop, I just flip a lever and the brake blocks firmly clamp the front rim. Everything looks normal except the bike won't move. This, with a lock, has made me feel a bit more secure on day rides when leaving the bike to enter a store. Sadly, this solution won't work with V-brakes.
America presents a different case than Europe. When cycling through all of The Netherlands, Belgium, a corner of western Germany and part of Bretagne in 2008, I was with a partner for much of the time and I pulled guard duty while he shopped for groceries and supplies. It gave me a lot of time to observe other cyclists' locking habits. I concluded Continental solutions wouldn't necessarily work here in the States largely because we have a great prevalence of pickup trucks. It is simply too easy for a thief to stop and quickly hoist a bicycle locked only to itself into a pickup truck and be gone. This is especially true in rural areas, where pickup trucks are the exclusive franchise of drunk, mischievous high-school kids on Saturday nights.
In the end, I may well go for a Pitlock to secure my Sherpa's rear wheel, and use the U-lock to secure the front wheel and frame to a post as the lightest, most wieldy solution. The threadless headset is a new thing for me, and has greater vulnerability for theft than the older threaded/quill stem variety -- a 5mm allen key and three bolts are all a thief needs to remove the front wheel in the fork, then take things apart elsewhere at his leisure. The main thing, I think, is to *always* lock the bike, and I do. It is a good habit to develop and one I've never regretted. Simply leaving the bike unlocked in any situation invites problemsa nd provides no theft deterrence at all. It seems to me something -- anything -- is always better than nothing.
Looking forward to others' solutions and approaches; great topic!
Best,
Dan.
Eugene, OR -- USA
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One further point in reply to your question, Tom...
Yes! I *do* take my bike into the bathroom with me, whenever possible, and lock it inside if the facility will accommodate more than just myself. The only time I had an item pilfered from the bike was when I was in the restroom and the bike was parked outside. When one is occupied thusly, it is the equivalent of a million miles between you and the bike, and that's when it is most vulnerable because it is out of my sight and I cannot immediately dash out to reach it. Thieves know this, and exploit the situation more than you would think; lots of car drivers lose items at highway rest stops here in the States. Getting the bike past spring-loaded restroom doors is a challenge when alone, and hard on fenders if you don't get it right. That's why one essential piece of touring gear for me is a small rubber wedge door-stop, carried in my handlebar bag, which also always, always, always goes with me whenever I leave the bike. The HB bag carries my essentials -- wallet, cash, credit cards, passport, phone, meds, emergency contacts, etc. -- and is the one means I have to get home/out of a situation in case the worst happens and I lose everything else.
Best,
Dan.
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The threadless headset is a new thing for me, and has greater vulnerability for theft than the older threaded/quill stem variety -- a 5mm allen key and three bolts are all a thief needs to remove the front wheel in the fork, then take things apart elsewhere at his leisure.
Pitlock makes a locking top cap for the headset. You can get all the pitlocks with the same key so you only have to haul around one.
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Thanks for the replies. It is clearly one of those 'many ways to skin a rabbit' scenarios and I guess I will just have to find my own way.
I think I am warming towards the idea of getting cable locks for the panniers, pitlocks for both wheels and then one good lock for the frame. So my next question is which lock would you take (assuming you would take one)??
In London I used one of those thick cable locks that I wore around my waist. It was a good length and seemed pretty sturdy. Not sure what would be best for this trip though.
Any advice appreciated.
Tom
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I've found the most flexible for a long tour and something that has reasonable weight (approx 500g) and security is a 7ft/2m 10mm diameter Kryptonite Cable and a good combination padlock. The long length cable normally allows you to lock the bike to something immovable and this will be enough to deter all but the equipped thief (who will steal your bike whatever lock you use).
E.g.:
http://www.sjscycles.co.uk/kryptonite-kryptoflex-cable-7ft-length-22-metres-requires-padlock-prod15197/
-- and --
http://www.saundersonsecurity.co.uk/acatalog/Master_Lock_Combination_51mm_OS_ML_175_51.html
Shaun
p.s. Personally, I wouldn't bother with pannier locks or various Pitlocks for a world tour. The pannier is just as likely to be "gutted" with a knife and have it's contents investigated and taken that way and the chances of a thief specifically wanting to target a particular wheel / hub / saddle / stem / brakes / lights etc. is probably remote. Also with the Pitlocks, you'll probably just end up defeating yourself at some point when you lose the key!
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Assuming you have the bike insured, and want your insurer to pay out in the event of theft then a lightweight lock is not going to be enough, for an expensive tourer any insurer will insist on a gold rated solid secure lock such as the Abus Granite X-plus 54.
http://www.bike24.com/1.php?content=8;navigation=1;product=4373;page=1;menu=1000,5,74;mid=0;pgc=0
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Shaun I went through the same process while waiting for my Nomad and ended up buying an Arbus Granite X-54 .... . It's undoubtedly solid and secure, but it's also seriously big weighing in at 1.45Kg sans bracket. The geometry of the Nomad also presents a challenge when attempting to find a place to attach the bracket. In turn that presents another challenge - "where to put the Arbus when your are riding?" I wrestled with that one for some time before finally deciding to leave it at home. It's inevitably destined for Ebay and I suspect the buyer will use it on a motorbike.
Not wishing to be contrary, but I find Pitlocks to be brilliant, but as mentioned above the consequences of losing the essential bits are frightening.
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Assuming you have the bike insured, and want your insurer to pay out in the event of theft then a lightweight lock is not going to be enough, for an expensive tourer any insurer will insist on a gold rated solid secure lock such as the Abus Granite X-plus 54.
Good luck trying to get an expensive tourer insured for (say) a two year world tour. I think it will be quite costly, if it's even possible.
In the UK, specific bike insurance policies (Cycleguard, Cyclecover etc.) will cost you around 8-10% of bike value per annum and that cover won't include two years of world travel as standard. (Bikes can often be included on a household contents insurance for a lot less, but I'd expect they would baulk at covering this situation). Even if you do find reasonable insurance and have your Abus Granite X-plus 54 to satisfy the policy conditions, you'll still need to find a convenient railing everytime you want to lock your bike up and leave it unattended. IMO, it's just not practical.
For a world tour, I'd just buy a reasonable, flexible lock deterrent, forget the cycle insurance and play the odds...
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"where to put the Arbus when your are riding?"
I have a Kryptonite New York lock
http://www.kryptonitelock.com/Products/ProductDetail.aspx?cid=1001&scid=1000&pid=1096 (http://www.kryptonitelock.com/Products/ProductDetail.aspx?cid=1001&scid=1000&pid=1096)
but at about 2kg I hardly carry it around. I have a lighter similar lock for my usual lower danger situations. I carry a flexible cable too for situations where I can't find a good solid slender object to lock to.
I always have my saddle bag and handlebar bag on my Nomad. The lock fits easily in the saddle bag.
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Hi Jim, best you don't click on this link.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PCxHD9_uEf8
Kryptonite locks were an option i considered, but after Googling "break Kryptonite locks" I went down the Arbus route.
I actually bought 2 different models because initially I ordered the S&S coupling and it seemed a good idea. They are now both collecting dust in the shed.
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Yeah, that bad news on Kryptonite locks came out a few years ago. They don't use tubular keys any more, but a flat key with grooves, rather conventional but not entirely so. Around the time this method was publicized for defeating the locks with tubular keys, Kryptonite had a lock exchange program which I took advantage of. I must have sent in half a dozen locks, which all got replaced.
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Here's what Kryptonite keys look like nowadays:
(http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r6/kukulaj/kryptonite.jpg)
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Blimey, what a quandary!!
A top quality lock takes a weight off your mind, but adds a weight to your load, whilst a cheap lock might not be enough of a deterrent (which would be a disaster!).
Much the same as the quandary with insurance! Do you pay lots of money to cover yourself for something that might never happen??
What I'd do for a bottle of hindsight!!
RIGHT, SOME MORE QUESTIONS THAT MIGHT HELP WHITTLE THINGS DOWN A BIT...
Does anyone know what size D lock is necessary to go through the frame and around a railing (with panniers attached)?? This would be useful to know, because locks like the 'forgettaboutit' could be immediately ruled out.
Has anyone found a good solution for carrying a D lock (particularly with regards to a Nomad)?
Has anyone tried cycling with a lock around their waist (not a D lock obviously :)?
I did this in London and really liked it, but it may not work so well on an extended cycling trip.
Thanks for all the responses so far, I think this is a really interesting one, even though there are clearly no right answers.
Cheers
Tom
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The Abus-Granite D lock can embrace a fairly large railing - just under 11 cm x 30cm. If that's not enough consider the ABUS Granit Steel-O-Flex X-Plus 1050 Armored Cable Lock. Check out the specs on Bike24. They are equally impressive and the sight of them will deter most opportunists, but especially serious lock breakers (whether armed with a Bic pen or a sledge hammer).
It maybe just me, but I find that most of the places I like to go don't have railings in the places where I want to stop.
BTW, should the need arise Arbus locks are big enough and heavy enough to fulfill the roll of a baseball bat should you need to defend yourself against marauding locals, Range Rovers, dogs or even a hungry lion.
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A top quality lock takes a weight off your mind, but adds a weight to your load, whilst a cheap lock might not be enough of a deterrent (which would be a disaster!).
I still consider my recommendation of a flexible long lock is probably the best compromise (assuming you are not insuring your bike).
Much the same as the quandary with insurance! Do you pay lots of money to cover yourself for something that might never happen??
Out of interest, I contacted Cycleguard and Cyclecover (both UK) regarding covering a Thorn Raven Nomad with a nominal value of £3000 for a two year round the world trip (East to China, Oz & NZ, South America) for theft/accidental damage. Cycleguard wouldn't consider insuring. Cyclecover (CTC) offered either £618 (includes 2 yrs CTC membership) or £950 as a non-member for the 2 years. Policy conditions included using a Gold Standard lock (from an approved list) and always locking the bike to an immovable object (this applies even when locked inside a hotel room or storeroom). Currently, cycles are only insured on flights if they are packed in a "hard box" (i.e. not a CTC Poly Bag or soft bike bag). I'm not sure if the S&S Couplings on the Nomad would affect the cover as I didn't ask.
RIGHT, SOME MORE QUESTIONS THAT MIGHT HELP WHITTLE THINGS DOWN A BIT...
Does anyone know what size D lock is necessary to go through the frame and around a railing (with panniers attached)?? This would be useful to know, because locks like the 'forgettaboutit' could be immediately ruled out.
Has anyone found a good solution for carrying a D lock (particularly with regards to a Nomad)?
The quoted Abus Granite X-Plus 54 D Lock has an internal shackle measurements of 300m x 108mm. I'd imagine there would be a few times when you'd struggle to use it to lock the bike with panniers to an immovable object. A stuffed rear Ortlieb Roller Plus pannier has a width of 220mm. By leaning the bike, I'd expect you'd get the top tube a bit closer, but it's still going to be quite tight.
If I was carrying a D lock on a Nomad, I'd lash it on top of any bag sitting on the rack. The internal frame diamond on a Nomad is quite small and you'd probably want to have bottles on both the down and seat tubes. Behind the seat post is a possibility if you have enough post showing above any rack bag.
Shaun
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Thanks for the responses, that helps a lot. I will scratch my head a little more and make a decision. As for insurance, I think I am moving away from this sort of thing. It just upsets me too much. If I pay for insurance I am definitely giving money to a bunch of thieves. If I don't, I am playing for higher stakes, but to some extent it is in my own hands!
Touch a tree...
T
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Head scratched...I think I am going to opt for either the ABUS Citychain X-Plus 1060 (http://www.bike24.com/1.php?content=8;navigation=1;product=1983;page=1;menu=1000,5,74;mid=0;pgc=0) or the ABUS Citychain 1010 (http://www.bike24.com/1.php?content=8;navigation=1;product=13649;page=1;menu=1000,5,74;mid=0;pgc=0). I have used similar locks in the past and liked them and they will wrap around my seat post or fold up, which is a bonus. I reckon they could also be swung at lions!
Just need to work out which length to go for, 85/110/140/170cm. Hmmmm...
T
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Head scratched...I think I am going to opt for either the ABUS Citychain X-Plus 1060 (http://www.bike24.com/1.php?content=8;navigation=1;product=1983;page=1;menu=1000,5,74;mid=0;pgc=0) or the ABUS Citychain 1010 (http://www.bike24.com/1.php?content=8;navigation=1;product=13649;page=1;menu=1000,5,74;mid=0;pgc=0). I have used similar locks in the past and liked them and they will wrap around my seat post or fold up, which is a bonus.
A good choice, but heavy IMO at 2kg-3kg. Should certainly deter all but the most determined thieves, though.
Just need to work out which length to go for, 85/110/140/170cm. Hmmmm...
If you've got some time, take a length of string with you, marked at 85/110/140/170cm, while you ride your bike. Whenever you stop, look for the nearest immovable object and use the string to determine how long a lock you would need to lock up the bike (estimating for panniers). Might help you decide the most appropriate lock length.
Good luck on your travels.
Shaun
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I'm a big fan of the Abus granit 54 which I leave at work for securing my Thorn on commuting duty, but I'd never want to carry soemthing like that on tour. I usually carry an old light unbranded kryptonite which is probably one of the famous bic biro types. My reasoning is that I rarely leave my bike unattended and any lock would deter a complete opportunist when in a cafe. A d lock works well and will put off anyone with bolt croppers, especially if you use pitlocks on the hubs so you have a lot of options to find a suitable anchoring point.
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http://www.flickr.com/photos/12416461@N04/6114074910/in/photostream/ (http://www.flickr.com/photos/12416461@N04/6114074910/in/photostream/)
This is the ABUS Granit Strato 61 U-Lock, which is 2/3 the weight of the Abus granit 54. Same sort of price, not quite so secure. Long version weighs 1200g, plus holder. Not sure if that's the key security or the thickness of the bar that reduces it from 15 to 10. I pair it with Pitlock skewers so get lots of locking options. I secure the floppy end to the crossbar with a mini-bungee, and protect the crossbar from thumping with a bit of pipe insulation.
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Hi All,
When I posted my new Sherpa pics in the gallery section, I mentioned I had not opted for Pitlocks out of concern they could be easily defeated. Several of you have contacted me for more information, so I think a thread already devoted to security is the best place to answer.
To clarify my comment about Pitlocks: I very seriously considered purchasing a set of Pitlocks for obvious reasons. However, I spotted a flaw and wrote one distributor with my concerns last August, detailing my approach and methods. The distributor replied he did not think my methods would work, but would investigate further. I've received no additional reply. I have not contacted other distributors.
Not wanting to spend serious money on a product I had concerns over, I went out to my machine shop, made a Pitlock of my own and promptly defeated it. I photo-scaled the parts and the design and materials used in my experiments are essentially identical; I used the dimensions provided directly by the distributor. Lacking a "real" one to practice on, I don't see how it could differ in vulnerability, but I also cannot say for certain. There were several methods that worked, but I do not wish to publicize them. I detest bicycle thieves and do not wish to aid their efforts in any way. The point is, I found the *design* and *concept* to be vulnerable and that raised enough concerns to defer a purchase until I could learn more from the experience of others.
I do believe Pitlocks are secure in areas where thieves have not sussed-out a solution. *Any* bicycle security can be defeated, especially if mixed with a human-factors approach (i.e. lying to or deception of onlookers); time alone is a big factor aiding a thief, as is predictability. The best approach is to leave the bike unattended as little as possible and to employ a variety of methods to secure it, as thieves usually carry just one or two implements to defeat a given lock or cable. I think the problem is likely to be more severe for commuters who park in the same place consistently and predictably than it is for tourists who take ordinary precautions but are essentially only vulnerable in a single timeframe. There is a city vs. country component as well as local factors. Here in my locale, epidemic levels of methamphetamine addiction drive over 90% of all property crimes according to police statistics. A policeman friend tells me thieves will sometimes fill orders when they know of someone looking for a specific kind or brand of bicycle and will bring the tools needed to get it if it is commonly parked in the same place. He advised locked, secure indoor parking for commuters if possible.
I think until any reports of problems become widespread users won't have to worry. I think a varied solution is reasonable and generally secure. Even the SON28 and Rohloff hubs are fairly obscure items to most cyclists here in North America, and Pitlocks moreso at present. That may change soon and might not be the case where they are more common. If nothing else, Pitlocks are an extra impediment, and unless the are targeting a specific bicycle, thieves will generally pass a secure one for the easier mark. Since the topic of theft prevention is evergreen, it might be worth adding any new insights to this thread. I know it is a topic I remain vitally interested in and concerns us all in some way. I want to keep my Sherpa (and its wheels)!
All the best,
Dan.
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My recommendation for the world tour is
1. a frame-mounted ring lock (Abus, Basta) on each wheel
Plus
2. a lock that makes the bike unridable by unlocking the handlebar from the front wheel, like the n'Lock http://shop.nlock.ch/
Plus
3. a cable for tying the bike to something (the N'Lock comes with a mickey mouse cable; that's not what I mean!) -- the best cable that is still convenient locks into the ring lock and loops through other components and around fixed objects and releases at the same time as the ring lock
4. Pitlocks for the seat post and saddle, locks for luggage.
All of this should cost about a couple of hundred pounds but doesn't necessarily obviate the need for insurance (which covers your bike not only against theft but against accidents and fire, etc).
I don't find it difficult to fit an Abus D-lock; like everyone else who's ever handled one, I swear by the Abus Granite X-plus 54, and use mine every time I leave the house. It depends on which of the many available clips you have. Mine has the one-handed clip for the down tube attached just under the seat at an angle so that clears the rack and pannier baskets, where it also falls conveniently to hand if a Range Rover comes too near me.
You can get ring locks, the good ones being made by Basta and Abus, for both the rear and front wheels, the rear wheel one is more common, more easily fitted and more convincing as engineering (there is no reason you shouldn't fit a rear ring lock at the front, if your bike is otherwise suited, which probably means disc brakes). The front design is different, and not so convincing. Ringlocks are in fact quite light, as only the ring needs to be sturdy at all, and the sheath can be any old flimsy rubbish, because once the ring is locked on, one of the bike's triangles needs to be broken to get it off, and the rim to be cut; there's no space for leverage. Many of these ring locks sold at retail are in fact OEM packages, so make sure you get the fitting kit as well.
The ring lock and n-Lock combination have the advantage that when they are open, not locked on, the keys sit in them.
So, with this combination, you have a bike that is visibly not suitable for use (the handlebars are at an obviously odd angle), so no riding away; no impulse crimes. The more professional thief doesn't want an inoperable bike; he moves on. If he has orders for your components, say a Rohloff box, he notes that the frame will have to be cut to get the wheel out, or all the spokes cut to get the box out. He moves on to a more cooperative target.
This little lot shouldn't add as much as two pounds to your bike, so you're ahead over the 3 pounds of the Abus Granite X-plus 54 which locks up only one wheel.
In fact, I might try the n'Lock myself now that they've reduced the prices.
Andre Jute
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Andre,
My! You find the most interesting parts and solutions to problems, and I appreciate hearing about them! The N'Lock is one of those fascinating sorts of things, and I'll admit watching their video a half-dozen times. It is surely an innovative idea. Convenient for storage, transport, and parking as well as security.
I also like your idea of protecting each vulnerable system in a different way -- your four solutions cover the wheels (Pitlocks and ringlocks), the handlebars and perhaps fork (Pitlock and N'Lock), and a cable securing the lot to a fixed object. Add in the Abus D-lock for high-security, and I think one has done everything possible to deter theft. It is especially nice most of the systems are captive to the frame and the keys are also captive to their respective locks. It is a system thoroughly integrated and convenient, as one would find on an automobile.
I wish I could employ some of these on my Sherpa; alas, it seems my component choices won't allow it. I'm pretty well stuck with a conventional stem for my needs, and unfortunately Pitlock steerer caps are incompatible with the Tout Terrain The Plug 2. I'm considering placing a small ball bearing in the stainless-steel allen bolt for it, and then tipping it out by inverting the bike when I need access. So long as the bike is secured upright, it would be difficult to remove the obstructing bearing without a magnet. I've really looked closely at ring locks. My Dutch friend is sold on his, and I was impressed by how easily and conveniently it worked for him. His was one of the many that allow for a plug-in cable as part of the deal. Nice. Unfortunately, ringlocks won't clear my Zefal HPX2 pump inside the rear stays, and I don't think one on brake-boss mounts will clear my rear rack stays.
I wish I didn't have to carry the heavy, bulky U-lock on-tour. I have considered Abus' Bordo series of link-type locks, but recent reports indicate they can be twisted apart at the rivets with relative ease.
Andre, please keep those ideas coming -- I feel sure there's a better solution for my needs out there somewhere!
Best,
Dan.
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The Abus Bordo is for rough bikes. It will ruin your bike's beautiful paint in no time at all. The reason I don't use ring locks any more is that the only one that fits around my preferred wide rim and 60mm tires is a Basta custom made for Utopia for the front wheel, which was out of stock when I ordered my bike. But I wish a thief luck undoing the 15mm nuts on my front axle and getting the axle out of the precision-engineered German dropout. Hint: it doesn't drop out. Wheels that come out are for riders who get flats; with modern tyres you have the choice of not getting flats.
I'm just wondering if I should buy an n'Lock. The same fellow designed an earlier stem lock for a French company, which is more stylish, but doesn't have all the safety features and, judging by their response when I tried to deal with them, is not likely to be as obsessively well-made as the n'Lock.
I also see there's a new n'Lock, called the Mini, since I was last interested, which fits on a quill stem. I'm big on quill stems even in ahead/threadless frames because of my interest in ergonomics (ponce-speak for sitting up straight) and their infinite adjustability. After with Trek's cheerful and invaluable help, I reengineered my Trek Cyber Nexus to be what they originally intended it to be, a comfortable commuter for slack middle-aged parties (nothing at all like Thorn riders!) instead of a painful semi-sporting mishmash with an automatic gearbox, a man from Trek told me how much it would cost to reengineer their templates and molds and whatnot to make the head tube taller, and I just nodded (it was less than I thought it would be...); I see they now offer, on their road bikes (!), a taller head tube. Digression over The reason I'm interested in the quill capability is that the last time I looked, I couldn't fit an n'Lock without losing enough height at the handlebar mounting to concern me; it's a position on my bike where every millimetre is precious to me, and felt in my back.
Andre Jute
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Just found this - not sure if they are mentioned elsewhere re. locks, but for touring, peace of mind on short stops, and convenience of carrying I think the Abus Bordo lock may fit the bill. There are a variety of styles, key or combination locks, different sizes and security ratings too. I like the Bordo Granite X-Plus model with the frame mounted carry case.
http://www.abus-bordo.com/index_en.html (http://www.abus-bordo.com/index_en.html)
I don't think they are as secure as a top quality chain, but convenience is good. Made in Germany from German steel.
I would combine it with the Almax chain for city/high-risk areas when commuting. A bit heavy for touring though!
http://www.almax-security-chains.co.uk/ (http://www.almax-security-chains.co.uk/)
Richard
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Hi Richard,
I pondered going this route earlier, but Andre cautioned it is not kind to bicycle paint. I am still drawn to the siren call of the compact design, the neat little case, the extensible loop formed by the riveted links, but ah! There's the problem...the riveted links. There was a test done last Fall, I believe, which found those to be the weak link as it were, and easily prised apart. Such a shame if true (and it appears to be), as it would be just about perfect for my touring needs. I currently carry one of the later Kryptonite Evo2000 U-locks, a huge, heavy thing, and a small, custom-made vinyl-covered aircraft cable. The cable isn't too bad as it stores on the U-lock. The U-lock is the very thing that turned me toward the Bordo series. Currently, the best storage option I have found is to put the U-lock on-edge laterally (lying on its side) between my rear rack-top load ad secure it with the same Arno straps I use to secure the load. It is not ideal.
Like you, I am still drawn to the Abus Bordo Granite X-Plus model. It is just so...neat. Cool. Something to keep atop in terms of development. I still think I want one. I could hold the thing and happily call it my own, except for the spotty performance in tests. The series has been improved, but a remaining current flaw seems to be a plastic component, of all things. See:
http://road.cc/content/review/16663-abus-bordo-granit-x-plus-link-lock
http://www.bikeradar.com/gear/category/accessories/locks/product/review-abus--abus-bordo-granit-x-plus-39846
Richard...discouragingly, it seems any locking device can be broken, thanks to a power tool and human factors exploitation, but the key is to have something that will remain reasonably secure for the intended use. Locking the bike to run into a grocery while on-tour is different from leaving the bike unattended on the street all night. One thing I try to do now in more urban areas is to find a fire station and lock the bike there after speaking with the duty staff, or at an attended petrol station co-located with a grocery. I'll sometime bring back a hot cup of coffee for the attendant or offer to buy for the staff, and it does help them keep an eye on the (locked) bike while I am gone. Of course, it also depends on their honesty, as they would have a known period of time to rifle through my bags for plunder.
Still thinking about that lock, just as you are. The long-linked Almax chain you mentioned makes for a good design in it allows the chain slack to be taken-up, making the chisel approach less viable.
If I can get some solid dimensions, I am toying with the idea of attaching a rear wheel ring-lock to Sherpa's chainstays. The Zefal HPX pump makes the usual seatstay location impossible, and I am not yet sure there is enough clearance for one to mount on the v-brake posts, which also puts it outside the rear triangle. The chainstay location shows promise and would get the weight down low, if there is enough clearance. Still pondering.
Good finds, Richard, and thanks!
Best,
Dan.
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Dan
Thanks for the input and links. Yes, I have seen some mediocre reviews of this lock. I am sure you agree that for sheer compactness and design, its great. For touring use outside of urban areas I think it would be ideal. I will look into it more and try and find it in a shop to fiddle with the lock first. Also I have not exhausted my search of other locks, especially Dutch and German bike shops where all sorts of interesting bits can be found!
I notice the reviews were from April and October 2010, so it would be good to find more up to date info. Surely they must have fixed the falling-off-plastic-and-lock-fall-out situation by now! If it has been improved in the last year or so, I think I will go with it. Paint damage may be an issue but some old inner tube round the seat post should cover it, so to speak.
Having looked at many touring blogs, there seems little mention of locks in remote or country areas. And as mentioned before somewhere, a fully loaded tourer is not the easiest bike to steal. I leave both click-stand elastics engaged an the Rohloff in gear 14! A couple of more things for the opportunist to overcome!!!
Cheers
Richard
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Though not about locks locks, this is still related to the discussion of theft prevention while on-tour...
Mum may have been right when she labeled our coats and jackets in preschool. Putting your name on your bike or parts spoils the value for thieves while making them (and the bike to which they're attached) immediately identifiable.
Over the years, I engraved the stems and cranks on a number of my bikes, and it has often drawn positive comment. I freehand the operation with a high-speed die grinder and a ball cutter, rather than using a pantograph. I have never had a parts failure in over 30 years' use, though placement takes considerable thought and I won't do it to someone else's bike. The lettering is picked out and filled with successive layers of stoved enamel. The engraving is straight and crisp, but the paint edges have worn a bit on some of the older examples, and needs touching-up.The crank was a blank Shimano forging I remilled, polished, then engraved. The stems were carefully selected and there were a number that went through load-cycle testing to failure before I got the process down. The stems pictured all had a plain finish, which I later polished. I do not like to engrave anodized parts; milling through the hard coating to the softer parent metal creates problems, so I strip the anodizing first if it is present. I would have to do a lot of testing on spares before I felt confident about engraving Sherpa's hollow Kalloy Uno 3D stem or the c-cross section painted Deore cranks.
It is not a bad idea to label your panniers, however. An acrylic paint pen is the route to go here, and it needn't be in-your-face; placing your name in 2cm tall letters on the wheel-side of the bags is sufficient to readily identify them to a police officer in the event of a dispute.
I also take some care to tuck a small laminated notice into various parts of the bike, claiming ownership with contact info and asking any bike mechanic who services the bike to immediately notify me and the police if the customer can't produce ID to match. One goes in the BB shell, the steerer, the head tube, and the seatpost. The bikes are all marked in a variety of other ways so they can be readily identified on recovery in the event they are stolen in whole or part, or if ownership is disputed.
Locks help, but so does labeling, both prominent and stealthy.
Best,
Dan.
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If I can get some solid dimensions, I am toying with the idea of attaching a rear wheel ring-lock to Sherpa's chainstays.
The lock I ordered is en-route from Germany... did they stick it on a boat? I find the DHL tracking updates a bit cryptic!
I did get the matching auxiliary cable in today's mail, though. Bike24 didn't have it but somebody over here did. Strange. Anyway the cable looks really nice - substantial, and woven rather than just twisted. I gather the woven cables are tougher to cut.
When I get the lock I will be sure to take some photos & measurement etc. and post them here.
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Reference earlier posts here, with which I've just caught up, about ringlocks, the kind that attach permanently to the seatstays around about the brake mountings. I have two of those on continental bikes that fall into the "Dutch comfort/commuter" class, and I suspect both (ali) frames have custom fittings to allow their easy fitment. Both have no problem with 37mm Marathon Plus and suitably sized mudguards. I therefore expect that the aftermarket models, though made to fit differently to the bike (by hidden clamps rather than threaded bike-side fittings. I will check and photograph if necessary after Jim's lock arrives; if I'm right about the OEM models differing in their fixings from the consumer aftermarket models, there is no point in confusing the issue with information of limited utility until no other information is available.
I have a third bike on which a front wheel ringlock is an orderable standard fitting, but I don't have the ringlock as it was out of stock when my bike was built. This is a Basta lock, also sold under the Mighty brand, and it works differently to the rear one, is in fact called a "ring" lock only by courtesy, as it consists of a U that fits upside down to the brake sockets (almost always Magure hydraulics on this particular brand of bike, Utopia), with a swinging arm that swivels through the spokes to the other side and locks in; it doubles up as a brake brace. I've not handled it, but from the photographs it doesn't seem to be as sturdy as the standard AXA/Basta rear ring locks, especially the more expensive models I have on my Gazelle Toulouse and Trek Cyber Nexus. On the other hand, Utopia is famed for testing everything three times before fitting it to their precious bikes, so I expect the lock works satisfactorily. The Utopia version is scaled and specially made by Basta to fit 60mm Big Apples with SKS P65 mudguards over them; the standard aftermarket version won't fit a "normal" Utopia but I expect the standard aftermarket version will fit 38mm tyres with mudguards, because that's just about a minimum fitting for a Continental commuter. Utopia designed this lock to suit their own purposes, but I've never understood why they prefer a front wheel ringlock to a rear one, and when I asked why was told there was no space at the back, which is a bullshit brush-off answer (a manufacturer finding no space redesigns until there is space!), so don't ask me to justify it. I merely mention that it's available, and can be found on the net if your look hard enough.
My own opinion, off the top of my head, is that rear ring lock can be fitted at the front as well, and that ringlock at each end, with a relatively lightweight (not that monster Abus cable that Gazelle used to give away! -- that thing must have weighted five pounds!) but longish cable, will secure the bike in all but the most fraught circumstances. I like ringlocks for their low weight for the security they offer, and for the logic of the key staying in when they are unlocked; it's a failsafe design. (On the other hand, the factory fitted ones, when they come to the end of their service life, take the frame with them to the grave. I inspected one of my bikes with the idea of using the ringlock elsewhere, and concluded the lock couldn't be removed, even when open, without severely damaging and very likely weakening the frame, pretty likely destroying it.)
Andre Jute
Andre Jute
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Lifting some text from Bike24:
Mount:
LH for simple mount on seatstays
SP for simple mount on multi-wall
CL for mount on seatstays with included universal clamps
Note: With the KR version the key cannot be removed when lock is open. Use the NKR version to remove the key when lock is open.
CL only comes with NKR, and that's what I ordered.
Look too at il padrone's post:
http://www.thorncycles.co.uk/forums/index.php?topic=1944.msg17314#msg17314 (http://www.thorncycles.co.uk/forums/index.php?topic=1944.msg17314#msg17314)
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Thanks so much, Andre and Jim; information like this surely aids in selecting the best lock for a need, and the more I examine ring-locks (in whatever form they take), the more I think they might be very worthwhile for the world tourist.
These discussions bring to mind another aspect of security measures -- what is familiar to thieves and easily compromised in one geographic area is strange and leaves them unprepared in another. Ring-locks are not generally common here in the States compared to, say, The Netherlands, and I have a feeling their relative scarcity might well work in one's favor. Yes, Andre, a ring-lock with a cable might well prove a very handy solution and possibly ideal.
Mu Dutch friend's ring-lock alone proved sufficient for his round-trip tour from Rotterdam to Santiago de Compestela without a cable. I would prefer adding the cable so the bike could at least be secured to something as well as locked itself. I'm drawn ever more to the Atomic22 Infiniti 3D security bolts and these, coupled with a ring-lock and cable would be a straightforward solution to keeping the steerer and Plug 2 intact as well as the SON28 up front -- to the point where no cable would be required there. The cable could then be employed solely to secure the bike to a stationary object via the ringlock. Small padlocks on the Ortlieb security tethers would be sufficient to prevent a quick snatch-and-grab of the bags, so long as one took the HB bag along when leaving the bike.
Lots to think about, but I feel I am closing in on a solution for myself that is a bit lighter and more convenient than my present approach, and likely just as secure. So looking forward to the reports, Jim. Godspede to FedEx in hopes for faster delivery to you!
Best,
Dan.
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Hi,
It's crazy to have to wear a heavy lock for touring but it's fine for to be reassured :-\
So it was a difficult choice but i did it, i bought a lock for my Nomad 8) hope it will not be too small or weak..
https://www.kryptonitelock.com/content/kryt-us-2/en/products/product-information/current-key/002093.html?type=bicycle
And i will combine certainly with a cable, to have more flexibility ? i mean more places to tie it
https://www.kryptonitelock.com/content/kryt-us-2/en/products/product-information/current-key/210818.html?type=bicycle
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I've got an ABUS Granit 640 which looks like a very similar lock to that Kryptonite Mini-6. For around town I have a Bordo 6500 which weighs about twice as much. I think a cable is smart ... how thick, how long.... I have a very old and quite skinny cable that I might use. It's about half a pound weight.
Probably it depends a lot on what sorts of towns you might pass through. Big cities, people steal bikes a lot!
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I have a cable very much like that, possibly the same one. A friend of mine that works as a bike mechanic told me that he saw a demonstration where someone took the cable cutters that bike mechanics use to cut brake cables and outer housing and managed to gnaw through similar cables in less than a minute. I still use cables, but situational awareness is the best defense, are you in a place where you should be nervous or not? Do you have to put your bike there or is some other place better?
For a quick run in a store, I use a lock like skiers use, photo attached. The cable could easily be cut but if I plan to be in the store more than 5 minutes I do not use the skier lock.
That friend of mine that works as a bike mechanic, we did a bike tour a year ago. He really did not want someone to steal his Titanium bike, the second photo shows the lock he used. I told him that the weight of the lock and chain more than made up for his lightweight bike weight savings.
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I use the Abus Ampro frame lock on a daily basis to lock the bike up while in work along with a combination lock which I leave at work. When I'm away I use the additional cable for a quick store stop and when camp is set for the night
(https://i.imgur.com/EpxYTLvm.jpg)
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Yes it is also my idea to use the cable at night around a tree for bivouac, and use the Kryptonite U lock attached from my frame to a steel pole something like that when i stop for a quick store.
I can also use the cable to attach my wheels..
Mickeg, my plan will be to travel with the Nomad, so all days it will be next to me.
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I use a TiGr Mini, and there is the Mini+, which is slightly larger: https://www.tigrlock.com/tigr-mini-plus/ (https://www.tigrlock.com/tigr-mini-plus/)
These are easily stored, and reasonably light and compact. They're not cheap, but I think they're good value.
You can lock your bike to a pole or a rack with one of these. There's still the cable question--if, for example, you want to hook your bike to a tree.
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A Dutch/nurses lock and a good quality cable. You can put the lock through the cable ends and then through the front wheel or round the immovable object or even both. At the very least the dutch lock will stop them riding the bike away. The key can't be removed from the Dutch lock unless you lock the bike. I think there brill alas my thorn has the hole for the brakes coming down so can't use one on the Thorn but my Dutch Travelmaster has one on. Very important in my opinion if you have a Rohloff. You could use one on the front which would immobilize both wheels but it wouldn't stop them taking the front wheel off.
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I showed the skier lock I use above, the more heavy duty cable lock I sometimes use is in the photo, although bad lighting for the photo.
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I received my lock..
(https://i62.servimg.com/u/f62/19/07/93/69/th/p1110710.jpg) (https://servimg.com/view/19079369/216)
i weighed it for 690 gr.
Now i need a cable to secure my rear wheel, i think 120 cm length will be fine. But if i want to secure also my front wheel i need 180 cm ..
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I would definitely recommend a wheel/frame/ring lock. The AXA Solid Plus is good for up to 2 inch tyres ...
https://www.axasecurity.com/bike-security/en-gb/products/locks/framelocks/axa-solid-plus-black/#product-info
Previously I had the Axa Defender but upgraded as the Solid Plus allows for a larger tyre.
Great thing about both is that you can use either a cable (lighter for touring) or chain that couples with the lock.
In high risk areas I also use the Abus Granit X-Plus 54 U-Lock. A bit too heavy and a bit of over-kill for touring. Best to keep your bike in sight at all times on tour.
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Two days ago I bought an Abus Bordo 6100, 90cm lock. I went to a bike sale that was big enough they had some manufacturer reps there, and there was someone representing Abus. They are very rare in USA, the concept of a link type lock had interested me but I wanted to see one before buying it. This was the first time I had seen one for sale.
https://www.abus.com/eng/Mobile-Security/Bike-Safety-and-Security/Locks/Folding-locks/BORDO-Combo-6100
I have been resisting getting a U lock, but have been wanting to get a good lock for my Titanium bike. I wanted combination so I did not have to worry about forgetting or losing a key. This looked like the best combination non-U-lock that was available. At 1050 grams without the bracket, a bit heavy. But if your lock is supposed to be proportional in weight to the reciprocal of the bike weight, it makes sense to get a heavy lock for a lighter bike. And I had been carrying around a 620 gram cable with padlock. Thus, the Bordo only added 430 grams to what I was already carrying.
My Titanium bike is probably comparable in value to my Nomad. But in my community nobody knows what a Rohloff is, so my Nomad is not seen as a highly desirable bike by potential thieves. But you can't hide a Titanium bike, I suspect that even when I used a lot of older technology on it (square taper crank, 8 speed, bar end shifters), it still has that most-desirable look to a potential thief. Thus, it needs a good lock.
I know there are better locks out there but I wanted to consider convenience and did not want to give up a water bottle cage mount for it. The Bordo looks like it will be quick to use, much faster than my cable locks that had to be re-coiled (which is time consuming) after each use. And it had a convenient bracket I could mount on the frame.
For a bike tour I will probably still have to carry a cable, as campgrounds often offer trees but little else for bike locking. And 90 cm is a bit short for wrapping around most campsite trees. But I will worry about that later.
Touring, I usually use bolt on skewers (Halo XL) that use any 5mm allen wrench. Abus had an interesting skewer that was more secure, but I chose to stick with what I already had. If anyone wants a more secure skewer but does not want to risk losing a special key like a pitlock, the Abus looked interesting. Bike has to be on its side to access the flats for an 8mm (or was it 10 mm?) open end wrench.
https://www.abus.com/eng/Mobile-Security/Bike-Safety-and-Security/Locks/NutFix
If I was going somewhere where I would worry more about loss of my dynohub or Rohloff, I might consider that Abus skewer. But I mostly am worried about an opportunist thief and I assume they are not carrying around a 5 mm wrench for my bolt on skewers.
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Bestbikelock.com did a test of the ABUS Bordo 6000-series link-locks, though the model they tested was not the combination model. Their results and review are here:
http://thebestbikelock.com/folding-locks/abus-bordo-6000-review/
The problem where I live is the portable electric angle grinder. They go through *any*thing (especially bike frames), given the opportunity. If complete bikes cannot be stolen, they are stripped quickly of their components. For example, I was dismayed on Friday to drive past two intact bicycles parked in our downtown here on my way to anappointment. 45 minutes later, I walked past them on another errand and saw the results below. All this in daylight (10:00-10:45) with heavy pedestrian traffic on the sidewalks in the busy business district. :'(
Sadly, theft of all kinds is just a horrible, horrible problem where I live. This article from the local newspaper helps explain why:
http://registerguard.com/rg/news/local/36509124-75/eugene-police-disregarded-about-one-third-of-daily-service-calls-in-2017.html.csp
Best,
Dan.
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Thanks for the link of the review.
If I have to park a bike in an area where I need a better lock, I am inclined to ride my Bridgestone instead. I have ridden my Nomad downtown here a few times but when I did I parked it where there was a lot of visability and foot traffic. The downtown and campus areas are the only parts of my community with a lot of bike theft, other areas are pretty safe.
If I recall correctly, your part of Oregon is considered the bike theft capital.
Of your two photos, that first bike is not much of a bike, why would they want the saddle? Second photo, yeah the thief had a set of allen wrenches so they could take the stem cap off and slide the stem off the steerer tube, probably just cut the cables so they could get the brake levers and shifters in maybe less than a minute, and even the chain is missing.
***
When I toured Iceland, that entire island was so safe that I had only a very cheap cable lock. Sometimes in campgrounds I did not bother to lock up the Nomad at all because it was so safe.
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If I recall correctly, your part of Oregon is considered the bike theft capital.
<nods> Yes, George, it is just terrible. Pretty much anything left out is subject to theft. What a sad state we've reached here. :(
Out in the waning sunshine at the moment, about to hit the logging roads. A week of rain is forecast starting tomorrow. That won't keep me off the bike, but this is much more pleasant.
All the best,
Dan.
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Stealing a bike is such a low thing to do. I can understand stealing a car, robbing a bank, etc., but stealing a bike...
I guess it's a matter of the market for spares, and the need for quick cash.
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Stealing a bike is such a low thing to do. I can understand stealing a car, robbing a bank, etc., but stealing a bike...
I guess it's a matter of the market for spares, and the need for quick cash.
My neighbor that is a bike mechanic works at a shop near campus of a large university. He told me that several years ago there was a rash of thefts of high end bike parts. On bikes with expensive brifters someone would cut the cables, pull off the stem cap, loosen the stem and slide it off the bike and be gone with it, leaving the bike behind. They suspected he was selling off the brifters on Ebay or something like that. Fairly new ultegra or dura ace brifters could sell for a lot at that time on Ebay.
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If I have to park a bike in an area where I need a better lock, I am inclined to ride my Bridgestone instead.
When possible, if riding in what I consider high theft risk areas I either:
- use my old utility bike, with 3 locks, a frame lock to immobilise frame-rear wheel, a heavy chain to lock front wheel and frame to a post or similar, finally a small cable lock to lock my old home-made pannier bags to the rack. This bike has low theft value - well worn leather saddle more than 30 years old, obsolete 5 speed hub gear, old TA cranks, pedals from about 1980, etc.
- or I take my lightest Brompton folder, and carry it with me wherever I go (into the shops I visit, or to meetings, etc.)
I do have a reasonable quality Abus Granit Futura 64 U-Lock, which I use occasionally for parking one of my Thorn bikes, for example when shopping on tour.
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Not a world tour ( yet 😉 ) but just back from my 4/5 week tour of Ethiopia.
I used a no name combo cable and rarely left the bike out of sight. At night the Raven was tucked up cozy with me in the guesthouse bedroom.
It's a risk factor game of chance. Reduce the odds as much as possible within the boundaries of personal beliefs.
Best security I had was am armed guard outside a bank I visited when changing money. But he wasn't portable. 😂
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Perhaps rather than locks, it may be most effective to buy a rear trailer and visit your local animal shelter for you new Pit Bull traveling companion. Make sure to pick up a six foot leash and a water bowl on you way home.