Thorn Cycles Forum
Technical => Transmission => Topic started by: johnstaples on July 24, 2009, 05:49:48 pm
-
Hi all
Which is the cleanest chain lub to use, but one that still does the required job?
Would a super quality grease be better?
Cheers. John.
-
Ask 10 different cycles you will probably get 10 different answers! The best lube depends on the conditions you are riding in and what your successes criteria is: minimum dirt; minimum service interval; maximum rust resistance, minimum cost etc.
My favourite is Rohloff Chain lube but just about anything will do. Some use WD40 which I wouldn't recommend, others use melted WAX which again I wouldn't recommend. But just about any oil will do an OK job, just won't be as good/ clean/ etc as a dedicated oil.
If the cleanest is what matters then you should be looking at a 'DRY' Teflon based lube.
-
Which is the cleanest chain lub to use, but one that still does the required job?
No grease can be clean since it gathers up dirt into a nice grinding paste.
White Lightning (wax) is very clean since it sheds dirt chemically.
Dunno about the teflon ones.
-
Hi All,
It's been a little while since we revisited this topic, and that came to mind this weekend when I mixed up a fresh batch of my blend of Phil Tenacious Oil and Tri-Flow and packed it in a little eyedrop bottle to tuck in my underseat bag for use on long day rides. I've found it handy to have chain lube on-board with me to quieten a noisy chain that started out silent, or to replenish lubricant after a rainstorm. For me, the Phil Oil is reasonably tenacious, but it can fling off the chain's tight circuit 'round the derailleur's jockey pulley and it has poor immediate penetrating ability due to its high viscosity (it is not so much thick as very sticky). In contrast, I like Tri-Flow's PTFE in suspension, and it penetrates well. I've been playing with a mix of the two, and think I now have it about right at 90% Phil Wood to 10% Tri-Flow. I apply a drop carefully to the inner run (gear side) of each link initially, and a very thin drizzle across the edges of the link plates thereafter, also on the inside run.
In some past experiments, I had good luck using Lucas Oil Stabilizer ( http://www.lucasoil.com/products/display_products.sd?catid=7&iid=25&loc=show ), an aftermarket "oil extender" that clung to my chain like grim death and held fast in wet weather. It is still viable for that use, but absolutely horrible in the dry because everything sticks to it. Retail outlets for the product here in the States usually have a little demonstrator model on the counter, consisting of two pairs of stacked gears with crank handles, each partially submerged in a reservoir of Lucas Oil Treatment on one side and plain motor oil on the other. A turn of the crank makes it clear the Lucas' greater viscosity allows it to be drawn up by the gears, transfer between the teeth, and fully coat all friction surfaces. It is a bit like Phil Tenacious Oil in that regard. It certainly kept my chain well-lubed, but when the rain stopped, the thing soon looked like a loose sweet in a coat pocket -- furry with the lint of everything it contacted.
In April 2011, Future Bike conducted a test of commonly available chain lubricants, including Oil of Rohloff, here:
Original German version: http://fahrradzukunft.de/13/kettenschmiermittel-test/
Google-translate English version: http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=de&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Ffahrradzurmkunft.de%2F13%2Fsteckdose-unterwegs-3%2F&act=url
I know Rohloff have tinkered with their Oil of Rohloff formulations, but the author didn't note which iteration was tested here.
The test was conducted by Rainer May, a German mechanical engineer and everyday cyclist. He cites Rohloff's extremely long "steeping time" (Ein Ziehzeit) or soak-in period ("...at least a few minutes"; even longer in cold weather due to greater viscosity than some of the competitors in the test, which he describes as "water-thin"). Of the three oils used in the test, Rohloff's came in third for elongation, but the author preferred it for ease-in-application. Methodologically, he concluded his use of a high-quality chain made differences in the lubes less apparent; a lower-quality chain would likely have manifested increased wear showing the differences in lube more clearly. Overall, rainy weather in his on-road tests revealed a greater diversity in lubricity (term commonly used to describe the ability of a compound to reduce friction between moving parts) than did lab tests; some lubricants were not water-resistant and were quickly washed away in real-world use. A final note: Finish Line Wax did surprisingly well in his tests, given it is so thin.
Bottom line: Stutho is right when he says,Ask 10 different cycles you will probably get 10 different answers! The best lube depends on the conditions you are riding in and what your successes criteria is: minimum dirt; minimum service interval; maximum rust resistance, minimum cost etc.
Lab test results may be clear, but real-world conditions and a user's frequency and care in re-application are factors that really prevent objective comparisons.
Before closing, a question: Have any of you tried the Rohloff Lubmatic semi-automatic chain oiler? If so, how effective was it? It consisted of a chainstay-mounted oil reservoir and hose that delivered user-triggered, metered doses of oil to the chain via a specially grooved derailleur tension pulley. It is no longer offered by Rohloff, but was popular among mountain-bikers for a time, particularly in wet climates. Anyone have one for sale? For details, see: http://www.rohloff.de/en/products/lubmatic/index.html
Best,
Dan.
-
No grease can be clean since it gathers up dirt into a nice grinding paste.
White Lightning (wax) is very clean since it sheds dirt chemically.
Dunno about the teflon ones.
I used White Lightning Dry Wax for several years on inexpensive base chains in chain cases. I used to get about 2200-3200km out of a cheap chain on the Gazelle herehttp://coolmainpress.com/BICYCLINGgazelletoulouse.html and the Trek Navigator L700 "Smover" in this photo essay http://coolmainpress.com/BICYCLINGsmover.html.
With a more expensive class of bike I also switched to KMC X8 chains as simply the the best available, and since I switched at the same time to a Rohloff gearbox, I switched to Oil of Rohloff too, and have been most satisfied. http://coolmainpress.com/AndreJute'sUtopiaKranich.pdf
Oil of Rohloff sticks like the proverbial to the baby blanket. My first chain dosed with it lasted 4500km, perhaps not as high as some reports here, especially considering that I use either a chain case or a Hebie Chainglider so that my chain is fully enclosed, but still between a third further and double what it lasted before.
If you're using Oil of Rohloff for the first time, be sure to use only a few drops. A 50ml bottle has lasted me into a third year now. It works out substantially cheaper than white wax...
Presently, having bought a wholesale lot of X8s, I'm running an experiment to see how far the factory lube on a chain, highly spoken of by Sheldon Brown, will carry me without any lube being added. Currently at 600km without any visible ill effects. (When this experiment runs out, I'll fit my new crankset and stainless chain ring.)
Andre Jute
-
i use tri flow on all my bikes excellent stuff alltogether ;D
but i use pro gold on the chain just find it great ;)
-
I used triflow for many years on my bikes in the 80s and 90s. Then I switched to Finish Line Cross-country for quite a while - seemed as good. I tried Pedros Road Rage. Bleaagh! really crappy black gunge. Anyone want a bottle cheap?
Next I tried Prolink for a while but found the re-application rate was very rapid and went through a whole bottle in 2-3 months. Various dry wax-lubes were similarly poor - the chain was dry but needed re-application virtually every ride. I switched back to the old faithful Triflow and was horrified by how messy the chain became :o
Finally I bought a bottle of Purple Extreme. Twice the price (here in Aus) of regular lubes..... but it lasts at least 2-3 times as long. I get up to 600kms between re-applcation. And the lube does not wash off after wet rides. And the chain does not attract dirt. And the chain stays clean and quiet ;D
All a big thumbs up for PE
(http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTwGm7mcCpRMHP7_XbxCifonA4CP3pHoZ_b7h4IY-ddy1SkrEP8)
-
...I bought a bottle of Purple Extreme...All a big thumbs up for PE
I'm sure glad you posted this, Pete; I recall you mentioning elsewhere on the forum you used Purple Extreme and were very pleased with it.
Do you prepare a new chain specially for subsequent use with PE, or do you "run out" the factory oil and then clean and convert to PE? I notice their website indicates PE can cause any previously-applied oil to migrate to the surface and cause a mess, so they advise a complete cleaning using a citrus product like the one they offer. Do you use that product or something else?
Purple Extreme sure sounds appealing, and is something I'd like to try for myself.
Best,
Dan.
-
I have used Purple Extreme on at least two chains on the Sedona, the chain on my wife's bike and three chains now on the Thorn Nomad. With most of them I either cleaned off old lube and applied PE or ran the chain from new with the manufacturer's lube, then cleaned it and applied PE. This has always worked well for me.
Here's the first chain on my Thorn, after it had run with the original new lube, then been cleaned with kero, applied PE and now ridden about another 530kms (mix of sealed & unsealed and reasonable amount of wet rides too). I have not wiped this chain clean at all for the photo, it's just the way it was.
(http://inlinethumb46.webshots.com/45613/2400386400074746151S600x600Q85.jpg) (http://sports.webshots.com/photo/2400386400074746151ARChpX)
In the past 6-8 months I have run a chain from new with the manufacturer's lube, then just wiped it clean and re-applied PE. It has seemed to be qite OK and I've had no sign of the claimed mess or 'balling-up'. I will be doing this in future - seems to keep the chain clean and reduces my use of kero.
-
Done! Sold! Last hurdle crossed; order went out a few moments ago.
Thanks, Pete; that last photo did the trick, along with the nice endorsement of your own experience based on the sort of environment where you ride (very similar to my preferred playground ranging from the very wet Willamette Valley to America's very dry Great Basin).
Now, where's the delivery truck? Should be here by now... :D
[EDIT: Review of Purple Extreme here: http://www.campyonly.com/roadtests/2005/purple_extreme.html
...and here: http://coachlevi.com/product-reviews/purple-extreme-chain-lube/ ]
Best,
Dan.
-
Dan that report from Future Bike makes for very interesting reading. I remain a big fan of Rohloff chain oil and I can totally confirm that it has a long soak in time! The one other oil that I am a fan of is Purple Extreme. I think that Purple Extreme is a little easier to use but not as durable as Rohloff oil. I know lots of people like use white lightning (wax) but it wasn't for me.
The one other oil I keep meaning to try is chainsaw lube as promoted by Jobst Brandt http://sheldonbrown.com/brandt/chain-care.html (http://sheldonbrown.com/brandt/chain-care.html)
-
Stu,
I just got off the phone with the owner of Purple Extreme, and he mentioned he is in the midst of preparing a 4,000+unit order for shipment to the UK, and said his products are extremely popular overseas (UK, Europe). In contrast, the one LBS listed for my area has decided not to carry it because it doesn't sell fast enough (lasts too long), so they balked at the 1-case minimum order. I applied it to a friend's bicycle in the past and it worked well, but I had cleaned that chain in mineral spirits and dried it with compressed air as a matter of course. It is good to know it worked for you with some residual factory oil remaining, Pete, and I look forward to using it myself on Sherpa.
If I start a tour with a new chain or if I need to replace the chain while on tour, it is nice to know PE is compatible to a usable degree. I couldn't figure how I'd degrease the thing first while on the road. As a former automotive technician, I've sometimes stopped by repair shops and used other mechanics' solvent tanks in a pinch. They were happy to oblige in exchange for a donation to the coffee fund, but those opportunities aren't often available where I go. PE indicate the greatest life can be achieved if their lube is applied to a chain cleaned free of any other existing lubricant. I'm interested to see how that works out in long-term use, and will probably try it prior to the next long desert tour. I sometimes carry an entire spare chain, so it would be possible to pre-clean and pre-lubricate it in PE before departure so that is another option.
I have found Mobil Bar & Chain Lube ( http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=mobil%201%20chain%20%26%20bar%20oil&source=web&cd=5&ved=0CGMQFjAE&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.mobil.com%2FAustralia-English%2FLCW%2FFiles%2FMobil_Product_Guide_South_Pacific_May09.pdf&ei=cKM5T-eWH9PoiAKTv8iiBg&usg=AFQjCNGnc6GoD5obOha3rR0IqLBzszgrpw&cad=rja page 16) works in many ways like Phil Tenacious Oil, but differs in some key qualities. It is worlds cheaper, but I have not found it to be as sling-resistant nor as waterproof, though it does provide excellent lubrication and water resistance. It also penetrates more quickly, thanks to what appears to be a less clingy formula. In any case, I ended up with a lot more Mobil Bar & Chain Lube on my rear rim and tire than I ever did with Phil Tenacious Oil. Run that through the dust, and you end up with a good substitute for valve-grinding compound to scour the rims. I think one reason why it is less clingy is it was developed for chainsaw use, and most of those have "lossy" oil systems that use an automatic chain oiler to replenish the amount lost in operation. When I trimmed the crabapple tree out front last Fall, I made the mistake of parking the Honda nearby. Afterwards, I was horrified to find the entire car covered with a mist of oil droplets, proof that lots was being flung off the saw. My coveralls were covered as well as my safety glasses. No wonder it flung off my bike chain. The tight turns at the derailleur rollers were just too much for it to stay put. I was trying to get the best of both worlds by mixing small amounts of Tri-Flow with Phil Tenacious Oil, and that does seem to help. It is also a hassle.
At home, I have tried the oil-soak routine as Jobst recommends, and readily agree it is the best way to ensure the lube fully penetrates all the nooks and crannies of the chain. Unfortunately, it didn't work for me for a couple reasons:
1) I ended up with an excess amount of lube, even after hanging the chain to drain overnight over the soaking bucket and wiping clean repeatedly. What a mess.
2) Midway in a long tour, I have no way to properly soak the chain clean or to resoak it in oil, so once again I find myself applying a drop to each roller from the inside run (gear side) of the chain -- just as he recommends against.
While on-tour, I try my best to keep the chain as free of grit and dirt as possible. To that end, an extended front mudflap helps a great deal. I have pondered modifying a clear polycarbonate chain guard to shield the leading edge of the three chainrings. I do believe it would help in keeping the chain clean of dirt and water thrown by the front wheel. I am pretty conscientious about cleaning the chain when I oil it on the road, and carry a cut-down toothbrush and an ex-mascara brush for that purpose; that does a great job getting between the link plates where the chain contacts the gear teeth. In theory, it would be possible to swish the chain around inside a capped soft-drink bottle, but what would I do with the petroleum-laden discards? I'm surely open to any ideas or methods used by others on an extended tour.
Like you, Stu, I haven't had much luck with wax-based lubes or paraffin soaks, though I know some people prefer nothing else. My problem is there doesn't seem to be much remaining in critical places, and the chain very quickly becomes noisy. It seemed the carrier washed away, and whatever wax was left behind was insufficient. Perhaps a happy user of wax-based lubes will share their experiences so I might better learn how to apply it successfully.
Great thread!
Best,
Dan.
-
Dear Stutho,
After bikes, beer, Moby Dick and Dylan, my next favourite thing is chainsaws. Great for cutting down trees, punishing duplicitous drug dealers and, best of all, dispatching the evil dead.
Got to be Husqvarna mind, in much the same way as it has to be Thorn.
I'd been thinking of putting chainsaw oil to work as bike chain lube for some time. It does the same job under much more demanding conditions. I reasoned that stuff capable of clinging to 6' of chain (depending on guide bar length) travelling at up to 28 m/s over two tight sprockets must surely be able to hang onto bike chain, even if propelled by Michael on an RST.
And it's cheap. £3 a litre. Furthermore, for £6 you can get gloop that can be poured into limpid highland burns and upon which baby trout will contentedly suckle. Until I hear that rendering down pandas in the purest Himalayan glacier waters is part of the production of the biodegradable version, I'll keep using it to ameliorate the effect of cutting down trees.
I bottled any attempts to run with the idea, believing that only bike specific lubes could cope with the uniquely exteme conditions in a cycle drive train. That there may be an off the shelf, non cycle specific, chain lube solution out there makes all the technical claims, Gucci packaging and hefty prices of the slime peddlers somewhat redundant.
Perhaps saw chains don't have to contend with as much fine grit or water as bike chain (provided you don't try to take a stump down below soil level) but I've not experienced, or heard of, chain stretch in saw chain as being a great problem. Saw chains are treated as a consumable, depending on the wood being cut they may not last long due to frequent sharpening, so each chain may not be in use long enough for stretch to become a problem. Reduced stretch may also be due to the different construction of saw chain. The solid rivet pivot pins joining each link in saw chain provide fewer interstices and bearing surfaces than roller pins, which could lead to less grinding by the oil, grit and metal particle paste formed by moving bike chain. It would be interesting, I'm being somewhat generous in my use of the word, to compare the distance travelled by saw and bike chains during typical service.
Anyhoo, emboldened by Jobst "the wheel Jedi" Brandt's, albeit fleeting, endorsement of saw oil, I'll try some that I have in the shed. I'll be using a part worn KMC 1/8" chain on a 42 - 17 Rohloff transmission, just cleaned with citrus degreaser after going over the bars on some rocks at Cannock. Whilst this endeavour won't have any engineering credibility, it may serve as a prelim to show if it's worth trying on a new chain.
If it's at all promising I'll be hawking alliquots of saw oil decanted into 50ml squeezy bottles under the "Jim's Jooce" brand name for something over thrice cost price.
Yours, James
-
:D :D :D
-
as a fellow husky owner (just a small one - domestic woodburner 5Kw) and thorn owner: this made me laugh a lot, cheers Jimmer :D :D :D
-
PE indicate the greatest life can be achieved if their lube is applied to a chain cleaned free of any other existing lubricant. I'm interested to see how that works out in long-term use, and will probably try it prior to the next long desert tour. I sometimes carry an entire spare chain, so it would be possible to pre-clean and pre-lubricate it in PE before departure so that is another option.
The one performance dip I have found with Purple Extreme has been in very dry environments. Around here (Melbourne, Victoria) conditions are temperate - hot summers but often still fairly humid, wetter winter/spring. The lube has been great, lasting me up to 600kms before I felt it needed re-application. On re-application I have just wiped the chain with a rag usually (rarely gets dirty enough that I feel it need degreasing).
However on my outback tour in the desert and semi-desert land of South Australia (Flinders Ranges, Oodnadatta Track - about 900kms in the drylands) it did not last near as long. The chain still stayed generally clean, despite the sand and dust - the side plates were dusty red, but the rollers were fine. However it became rather grindy after about three days (180-200kms) and demanded frequent re-application. I was somewhat surprised by this but as I said, it has been the only situation where I felt its performance was not so good. For your desert trips you may want to make sure you have a full bottle as I went through about 1/2-2/3 of a bottle in that 3-4 week section of our tour.
-
Dear James,
Now that you've found your voice I hope you will make a few more entertaining posts.
I sense that you've got a wealth of knowledge to share that goes well beyond lubricating chains. Any views on eccentric bottom brackets, rims, loaded touring, ... ?
Greatly looking forward to your next post.
Chris
-
Outstanding jimmer ;D I will look toward to your next report!
(Should I let on that the only chainsaw I own is electric powered! Running and ducking the incoming flack ::) )
-
However on my outback tour in the desert and semi-desert land of South Australia (Flinders Ranges, Oodnadatta Track - about 900kms in the drylands) it did not last near as long. The chain still stayed generally clean, despite the sand and dust - the side plates were dusty red, but the rollers were fine. However it became rather grindy after about three days (180-200kms) and demanded frequent re-application. I was somewhat surprised by this but as I said, it has been the only situation where I felt its performance was not so good. For your desert trips you may want to make sure you have a full bottle as I went through about 1/2-2/3 of a bottle in that 3-4 week section of our tour.
For my desert tour, I decided to follow Lennard Zinn's (author of Zinn and the Art of Mountain Bike Maintenance) method, which is to frequently pour new oil on the chain (Prolink Chain lube is what he recommends and what I used) but never clean the chain. The idea is that new oil will wash away dirt as it trickles down through the rollers, so that the inner part of the chain, which is what counts, stays reasonably clean and lubricated at all times. The outer part of the chain will become absolutely filthy, of course. Not a problem in the desert, since it is easy to clean your hands by simply running them through the sand on the ground. Sand and desert dirt are potent degreasers (which is precisely why the chain requires so much oiling there).
My experience, after 25 days / 850 miles of desert use, during which the chain was constantly being showered with dust and never cleaned, was that the chain did indeed become filthy, but remained smooth running as long as I oiled it regularly, and wasn't nearly at the .75 elongation mark on the chain gauge by the end of the tour. Cleaning a chain during a tour is a massive PITA, so I'm pretty happy that Zinn's method works. This first tour was on a derailleur bike. The Zinn method should work even better on my new Nomad with Rohloff hub.
I think I ran through about 1/2 a 125ml bottle of Prolink chain lube on that 25 day tour, or about 60ml. Not sure how big the bottles you are referring to are.
-
Hi Frank,
Thanks for sharing your experience. I've read Leonard Zinn's suggestion, but have never read an account by someone who had applied it in the desert, so your experience is new to me. I'm glad it worked out well for you, and look forward to hearing how it works on your Rohloff-equipped Thorn when you have the opportunity to take a similar tour on it. The concept is a bit like a total-loss oiling system ( http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Describe_the_operation_and_maintenance_of_total_loss_lubrication ) or an automatic chain oiler on a chainsaw.
I found a video by Leonard Zinn showing his oiling/cleaning method here: http://www.5min.com/Video/How-to-Clean-and-Lube-Your-Mountain-Bikes-Chain-516993545 , and found it interesting. One thing that concerns me about the Zinn video is wiping the outside of the chain doesn't catch the grit and dirt between the links and on the rollers where it contacts the gear teeth. At home, I have always been a "bug" about cleaning my chains so they are free of grit and then completely dried (compressed air) and freshly oiled afterward. While on-tour in the desert, I take care to brush grit off the outside of the chain, chainrings, and cogs with a cut-down toothbrush before re-oiling, taking extra care to clean between the links using a recycled mascara brush (thanks to a friend who gives me her old ones). It doesn't take much time to clear the dirt first, and leaves less behind to grind away on the gear teeth. I just store the brushes in a little zip-top baggie in my underseat bag where they'll be handy enough to actually use. My fenders and long front mudflap do a good job of preventing dirt from being thrown directly on the chain.
Did you apply the fresh Pro-Link to the inside run of chain (the gear side)? You mentioned the outside of the chain became pretty crusty with dust and dirt clinging to the oil...how did the chainrings and cog teeth appear? Were they washed pretty clean by the reapplications of oil, or did they develop a crust as well?
I read your initial account of your tour ( http://www.thorncycles.co.uk/forums/index.php?topic=3343.msg16856#msg16856 ) and how you mentioned...the chain jammed when I backpedaled because the jockey wheels were all covered with grit.
Do you think think this might have been a side effect of the extra oil catching the dust and dirt?
Pro-Link is a lube many people seem happy with; reviews are generally enthusiastic. I haven't tried it myself, out of concern for its effect on polycarbonate plastics. I run Planet Bike polycarbonate fenders on some of my other bikes, and was a bit worried any slung Pro-Link might damage them, as some reports indicate. I pulled up the MSDS for Pro-Gold's Pro-Link chain lube here: http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=pro-gold+prolink+msds&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CCEQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.hawleyusa.com%2Fthcstore%2FIncludes%2Fpdf%2FMSDS%2520Sheets%2Fprogold%2FLUBE3610.pdf&ei=QEU7T6HMIsm42wXi5ZDBCg&usg=AFQjCNGQFRttuVR3ZElTLs4veDJ0yW-i9g&cad=rja , and find it is composed primarily of naphthenic derivatives and Naphthalene, the main ingredient in old-fashioned mothballs ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naphthalene ) and aliphatic hydrocarbons. No wonder it dissolves polycarbonate. This can absorb quickly through skin and adversely affect health, so it might be a good idea to tuck in a pair of Nitrile gloves to protect your hands, as Leonard does in the video. You were wise to scrub your hands in the sand right away.
Thanks for the report! We all go about things in our own way, so it is always good to hear of other means and methods so we can weigh them in light of our own experiences.
Best,
Dan.
-
The only time my hands got dirty was when I had to remove the rear wheel and thus lift up the chain to free the derailleur. They didn't get dirty from chain oil when merely lubing the chain. I'm not too worried about poisonous chemicals in the oil.
I didn't bother wiping the chain after oiling like Zinn does because I don't want to carry a filthy rag around, not even filthy paper towels. Just apply some new oil on the chain (in the center of the links, since the rollers are what counts) and then rely on the constant flow of fresh oil to keep things lubricated and reasonably clean. I never noticed any crud on the cogs or chainwheels, other than after the rain made the sand sticky. Same thing with the jockey wheels. Water was what made sand stick to everything, not oil. Once the sand dried, it naturally fell off or could be easily brushed away. Also, desert sand is such a powerful degreaser that it was only towards the end of the trip, when I went a little overboard with the oiling, that the chain became oily to the touch. Early on, it was normally dry to the touch.
The grit on the jockey wheels and elsewhere in the derailleurs is just something you have to deal with in the desert, especially after rain makes everything sticky. Fenders might help some. And yes, you can brush the grit off, but then you have to carry a filthy brush around and constantly fiddle with cleaning things. Grit clogging the derailleur was the motivation for the Rohloff hub. Herr Rohloff was riding through the surf on a beach with a derailleur-equipped bike and his derailleur clogged when waves washed sand into the mechanism. With the internal hub, he can ride on the beach without problems. I'm a little leery of subjecting my bike hub to water like this, especially salt water. Unlike Herr Rohloff, I don't have ready access to a Rohloff service center.
BTW I'm sort of surprised you went with a Sherpa, since you mentioned something about touring the Great Basin area. The Rohloff hub fixes a lot of problems with derailleurs in the desert. At least as I see it, the only reason for an American to go to all the trouble and expense of buying from Thorn and having the bike shipped internationally, is to get the Rohloff hub in an expedition quality frame properly designed for a Rohloff hub. If I just wanted a top-notch expedition derailleur bike, there are plenty of American companies that can supply that. (I also don't understand why anyone would buy the Raven Tour instead of the Raven Nomad. The external gear box is so much better.)
Please see this link http://www.thorncycles.co.uk/forums/index.php?topic=3963.0 (http://www.thorncycles.co.uk/forums/index.php?topic=3963.0) for discussion of internal / external click boxes
-
I think I ran through about 1/2 a 125ml bottle of Prolink chain lube on that 25 day tour, or about 60ml. Not sure how big the bottles you are referring to are.
Yes, something similar in lube consumption then, or maybe a bit better. I had a 120ml bottle, so probably used ~80mls on the tour. This would have included the whole tour - 3500kms over 9 weeks. I began with an almost-full bottle.
I also don't understand why anyone would buy the Raven Tour instead of the Raven Nomad. The external gear box is so much better.
???
A friend of mine has the Raven Tour, and has it fitted with the Rohloff EX changer. Don't recall how he's arranged the torque arm, but definitely an external box.
-
Right ho, comrades, allow me to gently wrench us back to the topic. Just in from the shed having applied some of the skankiest available chainsaw oil to my chain. It’s been years since it was decanted into a combican so I have no idea who made it, only the price stood out. If this experiment works, at £12 for 5l my previously mooted enterprise has a sound cost base from which to take advantage of peoples' credulity.
Application was the biggest issue. A stiff snifter was required to steady the hands as I decanted the stuff from the combican into an empty squeezy bottle of Halfords bike lube (a legacy from when I knew no better, that said, this whole investigation could confound all our claimed expertise). I elected for a direct pour rather than through a funnel thinking that such sticky oil would take longer than Queensland pitch to pass through at such low temperatures. That long running experiment to demonstrate the extreme viscosity of some apparently solid materials suggests further experiments to home in on chain lube perfection, though bitumen may preserve chains only by immobilising them.
I applied a thin stream over the rollers and, as the stuff strings to a high degree, ran a little over the joints between the link plates in the vertical plane.
Left to itself for 10 minutes it appeared to penetrate between rollers and plates as well as any other oil I’ve used.
On turning the pedals, oil strings stretched from the moving chain to the chainwheel, like cheese off a slice of pizza, demonstrating tenacious adhesion, and excessive application rate.
I’ll be back to Cannock on Sunday morning in an attempt to remain mounted throughout the Monkey and will report on how the chain it fares with the fine grit found there.
Yours, James
-
James!
Another terrific post from you, as usual! I look forward with greatest anticipation to the outcome of your experiments; this holds appeals on a price/volume basis, alone. If this works out and "Jim's Jooce" becomes available, please put me down for a crate, would you?
I have to admit my experiments with Mobil Bar & Chain Lube were not as successful as I had hoped, finding the oil tended to sling rather than stay, but I also suspect chainsaw lubes may vary widely from brand to brand. So, please keep us apprised! Even if the oil turns out to be is a failure, your humor is a great success, and surely brightens my day!
All the best,
Dan.
-
I haven't tried Chain saw chain oil on a bicycle but in the case of use with chain saw, the chain lube tank is topped up at the same time as topping up the fuel tank. the oil is continually pumped along the bar and on to the chain. The whole system is designed for the oil to be flung and that is why it is made of an Eco friendly biodegradable oil. As you say it is relatively cheap but I doubt it is great for the job.
-
I've been using DuPont Teflon Chain lube. I don't have enough experience to provide any meaningful comparisons. I forget where I read about using this on bike chains. Anyway it seems to work!
http://www.amazon.com/DuPont-Teflon-Chain-Saver-Lubricant-CS0110101/dp/B003OBP63S/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1329528652&sr=8-1 (http://www.amazon.com/DuPont-Teflon-Chain-Saver-Lubricant-CS0110101/dp/B003OBP63S/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1329528652&sr=8-1)
-
I've been using Finish Line Cross Country lube for some years now, it hangs in there very well for a long time in a wet climate, downside is it grabs loads of grit/gunk and gets absolutely filthy.
I got a bottle of Oil of Rohloff but it washed away pretty quickly, so I went back to the good old gloopy/dirty stuff. It may well shorten the life of my chain, but the cost of a new chain isn't excessive in my world.
-
Relayer,
I have found the exact oposit with Rohloff chain oil it. i.e. It stick to the chain better than any other oil I know of. It rain 200+ day a year here (Swansea is the wetest city in the UK) and this is why I when for Rohloff chain oil.
I wonder why we are seeing a difference in performance?
(the deperesing true about Swanseas weatherhttp://www.weather2travel.com/climate-guides/united-kingdom/swansea.php (http://www.weather2travel.com/climate-guides/united-kingdom/swansea.php))
-
Hi Stutho
Maybe I didn't apply the Rohloff oil properly, I dripped the oil onto the rollers, but in a very short space of time the side plates became covered in surface rust.
Applying cross country lube (which comes out as a foam) across the rollers it gets everywhere.
Last year Scotland had its wettest summer for many years by some margin!
http://www.scotsman.com/the-scotsman/uk/wettest_coldest_windiest_scots_weather_strikes_again_1_2031638
-
Last year Scotland had its wettest summer for many years by some margin!
:stares: at photo of Largs promenade in the link you posted...The news story with it further noted,the strongest gust of wind was 165mph, recorded at the summit of the Cairngorms on 8 December
Goodness, man! I thought we had it wet here in Oregon, and we had winds of 109mph January 18th at our little cabin in Yachats on the coast, but this is in a class far beyond.
How do you ever keep up with it when cycling in this continuously heavy rainfall, Relayer?!? You must surely have to re-lube the chain after every ride no matter what you use? Do you wipe down and relube the chain immediately after each ride, or do you just try to shake/wipe off the worst of it and relube as necessary? Are you near the coast as well? Do you have to park outside (say when commuting)?
Still shaking my head at that photo.... Wow.
Best,
Dan.
-
How do you ever keep up with it when cycling in this continuously heavy rainfall, Relayer?!? You must surely have to re-lube the chain after every ride no matter what you use? Do you wipe down and relube the chain immediately after each ride, or do you just try to shake/wipe off the worst of it and relube as necessary? Are you near the coast as well? Do you have to park outside (say when commuting)?
Hi Dan
I am actually relatively lucky being on the East coast, we don't get as much rainfall as those in the West (it's possible Stutho might actually get more rain in Swansea than we do in Edinburgh).
I generally don't set off on the bike when it's raining, if it starts after I'm out then that's OK. This meant though that the amount of miles I got on the bike last year was very disapponting and I am hoping for considerably more this year.
The cross country lube is very tenacious stuff and does stay on for quite a while; but maybe I'd better put my name down for some "Jim's Jooce" as well!
Regards.
-
Hi All
When I was looking for a chain lube I came across 'Squirt Lube'. I spoke to the guys at Alpine Bikes at Glentress (a big local mountain bike centre with a LOT of mud and rain) ...
http://www.7stanesmountainbiking.com/Glentress---Innerleithen (http://www.7stanesmountainbiking.com/Glentress---Innerleithen)
They recommended Squirt Lube. They have at lease 120 mountain bikes for hire in daily use in some pretty extreme conditions. A wipe with a towel and application of the Squirt Lube is all they do to service the chains on a daily basis. I bought a bottle and like it. It is a multi-wax dry lube that sheds dirt, water and dust. So far I am happy with it and seems to live up to its claims.
Here is a link to the company ...
http://www.squirtlube.com/ (http://www.squirtlube.com/)
Also have used Purple Extreme and love it too!
-
Presently, having bought a wholesale lot of X8s, I'm running an experiment to see how far the factory lube on a chain, highly spoken of by Sheldon Brown, will carry me without any lube being added. Currently at 600km without any visible ill effects.
On my trip from Southern Brittany to Spain/Portugal and back in October 2011, I fitted a new KMC Z8RB chain before leaving. I ran it on the original lube for the first 6 days of the tour, 1027 kms without adding any lube. First 4 days down the west of France were on clean dry roads, more or less flat. 5th day was lumpier, but still clean dry roads. 6th day was wet, lumpy and I used some tracks, so the chain was rough by the end of the day. Chain gauge showed 0.075 wear, so I took the first chain off and fitted the new spare chain I was carrying.
Retrospectively, this was a mistake, because the new chain immediately picked up a lot of red sandy dust on an off-road stretch. This second chain only lasted me to Portugal, 663 kms and 6 days, dry weather but with a lot of dust on some of the tracks I used. From the first day I did my normal "wipe off as much muck as possible then oil" regime. By the time I got to Bragança, the chain had started skipping on some of the sprockets and the chain gauge showed over 0.1 wear.
I put the 1st chain back on again, it did me for 2 more days and 203 kms before it too went over the 0.1 wear mark.
I bought a new Shimano chain in La Baneza, this did my for the hilliest part of the trip through the Picos de Europa (lots of lowest gear climbs) and back to France. Again, I used the original lube for the first 3 days until rain + dust made the chain feel a bit rough. This chain did 840 kms and 8 days till worn out.
4th chain for this trip was a SRAM. This lasted for the mainly flat ride till I got back to Brittany, but was worn out at the end of the trip, this time not because of any hills but due to the combination of 2 days of rain + sandy cycle tracks on the French Atlantic coast. It did 713 kms and 5 days.
I used an old steel 1980's mountain bike for the trip, converted for touring with racks, drop bars and Marathon Supreme tyres. Before leaving I fitted a new cassette with 34T sprocket, plus a 24T stainless steel inner ring. One bad feature of the bike was the U-brake - in wet weather this sprays muck onto the chain area. In the hilly bits I used the lowest 24x34 gear a lot, so this probably also accelerated chain wear.
For local use I generally get 2500-4000 kms out of a regularly-cleaned chain on this bike. For my 3335 km trip in a mainly hilly area with a months luggage I reckoned I would need 2 chains, but actually used 4.
Only other mechanical issues were a dented rim after hitting a pothole at speed, and a cracked ball bearing in one pedal. I didn't need to do anything about either problem till the end of the trip. No punctures, and I didn't even need to use the spare brake pads I had packed.
-
lads just came across this oil and by all accounts it's the dog's
chain-L chain lube .anyone here using it . ;)
-
I used an old steel 1980's mountain bike for the trip, converted for touring...
Hi Martin,
Often, the '80s MTBs has remarkably good touring geometry, and there's any number of conversions that have worked well for people as heavy-touring bikes. I"m glad yours went well, and you had a great time. Man! What a wonderful trip; I'm glad you were able to take it.
Thanks for sharing your chain-wear experiences. I'm currently on the original lube for my Thorn-supplied chain, and am doing well so far. This is a bit of an experiment for me as well, as I generally have always used the factory lube till the first clean (yes, in a solvent dash tank, followed by a compressed air-dry), then replaced the lubricant entirely. Chains treated by me in this way have always lasted well and given great service life, so we'll see how this goes in comparison. It is still quiet, and so far still clean.
When I do go for a relube, I'll be trying the Purple Extreme at Pete's suggestion. Playing with it and speaking with the company head at great length, I find it impressive, but the proof will be in my actual use. I have filled a sample bottle to the brim and carry it in a small zip-top bag in my Ortlieb underseat bag where I can readily access it at the first sign of chain dryness.
Much will depend on where I ride. In the desert, the biggest problem I face is talc-fine playa dust blowing its way into every possible nook and cranny, a bit like th ered-sandy dust you encountered. In The Netherlands, the problem was the sand roads, particularly along the North Sea, where they also contained a fair amount of accumulated salt. When wet, it firmed up and you could ride on it with no problem. When dry, it just churned and was carried conveyer-beltlike by the tires, where it then sifted down on the chain. Yeah, there's a lot of similar sand there in western France on the cycle tracks.
Chain life in this use doesn't look too good, given the actual distance traveled; your local use with regular cleaning and lubing sounds much more typical. Looking back on it, do you think the use of original lube was a greater factor, or the lack of cleaning/environmental effects...or both (I'm guessing the latter, both)?
Thanks for the report!
Best,
Dan.
-
The Cospea/Stronglight looks magnificent mounted, Andre; nice job on seeing it through, and a nice job on the photography.
the Amars are thinking of appearing on a Thorn
Is this what we might think of as "foreshadowing"? How long till we reach this chapter in the story?
Best,
Dan.
-
As I reported in February:
Presently, having bought a wholesale lot of X8s, I'm running an experiment to see how far the factory lube on a chain, highly spoken of by Sheldon Brown, will carry me without any lube being added. Currently at 600km without any visible ill effects. (When this experiment runs out, I'll fit my new crankset and stainless chain ring.)
Andre Jute
The weather and a turn in hospital delayed further riding and also photography but I've now managed to take some photographs which tell the story.
(http://coolmainpress.com/bikebits2012/kmc_x8_smfactorylubeonly_700km__2xunsharp_mask_6pix_50pc.jpg)
This KMC X8 chain has been operated for 700km with only the lube with which it came from the factory. Sheldon Brown claimed that the factory lube would be good for 700 miles, so this chain has done about 5/8 that distance, and of course inside an enclosing chain case, rather than exposed to the elements and to dust in the air as is more normal on a touring bike.
However, I would say subjectively, that the Amar steel chain wheel, on which the paint was hardly scarred after 4600km when the old, regularly lubed, chain wore enough to replace, appears to be wearing faster under the chain with only the factory lube. The Amar was chosen to be a cheap temporary item which proved so attractive and effective and long-lasting, I kept it well beyond the original intention of swapping it out for something more prestigious in a hundred klicks or two. It is not surprising the top-notch KMC X8 chain preferred to wear the chain wheel rather than wear itself... (Not claiming that a subjective snapshot is conclusive, of course.)
(http://coolmainpress.com/bikebits2012/kmc_x8_sm_factorylubeonly_700km_hebiechainglider_clean_inside.jpg)
The Hebie Chainglider is clean inside. Nothing has been flung off into it. The inside of the chain looks clean enough too. For purposes of comparison, I wore out the previous chain inside this Hebie Chainglider at 4605km, and that one was lubed from the beginning with Oil of Rohloff at intervals of 500km and then, when that proved superfluous, at intervals of 1000km whether it needed lubing or not; this figure (perhaps not impressive by comparison with some of the claims of ultra-distance chains on this board) is in itself twice as long as any other chain ever lasted on any bike with me.
(http://coolmainpress.com/bikebits2012/kmc_x8_factorylubeonly_700km_factory_lube_only_no_wear.jpg)
Net result, after 700km, no visible or measurable wear on the chain, and evidence of wear on the chainring small enough to be qualified as "subjective". Not a conclusive test. Frankly, on the evidence plain to see in the photographs, I doubt that anything conclusive will be seen in under three or four times this distance, with only factory lube, say 2000 to 3000km. (We can conclude that Sheldon was right, that factory lube is "excellent" as he said, and that it will easily make 700m with no other lube added — but that's hardly a surprise: Sheldon wasn't often wrong!)
(http://coolmainpress.com/bikebits2012/stronglight_sm_impact__cospea_phillips_vintage_pedal__surlyss_hebie.jpg)
I've now replaced the Amar crankset with Stronglight Impact Double/Sugino Cospea cranks and a Surly stainless steel chainring, while retaining the KMC X8 chain which has already travelled 700km without any additional lube. No new lube has been added, and the chain hasn't been cleaned. The Hebie Chainglider has also been retained; I have no appetite for speeding up wear artificially merely for an experiment, which would undoubtedly be the effect of removing the chain case. I'll run it like this for another few hundred klicks just to see if there is any wear, and whether it is preferential (I expect the stainless steel chainring to wear the steel chain rather than the other way round as with the Amar/KMC combination). Those Phlllips vintage block pedals are not for sale, sorry.
Even more speculatively, this test if carried forward, and specifically as I have carried it forward, with best quality chains and stainless chainrings, see above, and see also Martin F's post on 12 February, may well offer evidence in favour of the "don't ever lube, the factory lube is good for the life of the chain" school of thought, especially when the grinding bits are run inside a chain case. It certainly offers an encomium to the Hebie Chainglider, but then we already knew that it is the best of the chain cases available.
(http://coolmainpress.com/bikebits2012/amar_sm_indian_all_steel_crank_gone_to_live_in_stronglight_box.jpg)
The Amar crankset has been honourably retired to live in the Stronglight box, together with the 131mm Kinex bottom bracket required to make a Rohloff chain line of 54mmm, the crank equivalent of moving into a MacMillions Mansion...
(http://coolmainpress.com/bikebits2012/amar_sm_moved_upmarket__thinking_of_appearing_on_a_thorn.jpg)
... and, having moved so far upmarket, the Amars are thinking of appearing on a Thorn.
I am Andre Jute and I approve of this message.
MAKE YOUR VOTE COUNT, VOTE DANNEAUX FOR PRESIDENT, VOTE THE STRAIGHT BICYCLE PARTY TICKET
-
lads just came across this oil...chain-L chain lube...anyone here using it
jags,
I have not yet used it, but the reviews on their site sound good (they would!). See:
http://www.chain-l.com/index.html
They describe it as a mineral oil with extreme-pressure additives. They also describe it as thick, and needing time to soak-in, with the excess wiped off till no oil-stringing can be seen coming off the derailleur pulleys. Always good advice. It sounds a bit like Phil Tenacious Oil from the general description, but they claim a unique formula. Like most lubricants marketed to cyclists, it is incredibly expensive on a per-volume basis.
I'd sure be interested to hear user experience with this lube. As mentioned, the testimonials and reports on the manufacturer's site sound good, but that is to be expected.
Best,
Dan.
-
Ooh, Andre; I may have won already, but thanks for the campaign endorsement! Thanks to a hiccup in Thorn's server, my response appears before your post -- a true Wrinkle In Time (See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Wrinkle_in_Time).
Ooooweeeeooooo. :o
Best,
Tesseract Danneaux.
-
Looking back on it, do you think the use of original lube was a greater factor, or the lack of cleaning/environmental effects...or both (I'm guessing the latter, both)?
I reckon inadequate cleaning/environmental effects, plus extra force from mountain climbing with luggage. Don't reckon the type of lube had much effect. U-brake is definitely a bad thing for chain life.
Looking very seriously at getting a a Rohloff-equipped bike for any future long tours I do . Much easier to wipe 1 chainring and 1 sprocket clean than try and clean a 21-speed derailleur transmission.
In addition to the old mountain bike, I have an even older 650B-tyred commuter that gets used locally in all weathers. I converted this to a 5-speed hub. Compared with the old mountain bike in local use, chain life on this bike is typically 2-3 times better, often over 8000 kms. Maintenance needs doing less often, and is much quicker.
-
I have an even older 650B-tyred commuter that gets used locally in all weathers. I converted this to a 5-speed hub
Thanks for the followup, Martin. I do believe -- just as you've found -- modern, narrow derailleur chains exhibit greater wear and poorer service life regardless of lube or use than the older, 5-speed chains. There just isn't as much bearing surface area, and wear seems commensurately high. 9-sp chains seem particularly bad in this regard, especially when used with cross-chain combinations (which of course force the chain to run at greater lateral deflection and so should be avoided).
I would expect any chain to have a greater service life on a Rohloff hub, thanks to the single cog and chainring and a perfectly straight chainline allowing for no chain deflection. The environmental protection afforded by Andre's chain case is icing on the cake and must surely be a bicycle chain's vision of heaven.
Looking very seriously at getting a a Rohloff-equipped bike for any future long tours I do
I predict happiness and success, Martin!
Best,
Dan.
-
On my trip from Southern Brittany to Spain/Portugal and back in October 2011, I fitted a new KMC Z8RB chain before leaving. I ran it on the original lube for the first 6 days of the tour, 1027 kms without adding any lube. First 4 days down the west of France were on clean dry roads, more or less flat. 5th day was lumpier, but still clean dry roads. 6th day was wet, lumpy and I used some tracks, so the chain was rough by the end of the day. Chain gauge showed 0.075 wear, so I took the first chain off and fitted the new spare chain I was carrying.
I've just today seen your post, Martin. The KMC Z and X chains are a smart choice for almost anyone: I think they're better than other chains by a larger proportion than their price is higher, and your experience proves it again. -- Andre Jute
-
Thanks for the followup, Martin. I do believe -- just as you've found -- modern, narrow derailleur chains exhibit greater wear and poorer service life regardless of lube or use than the older, 5-speed chains.
Precision - 5 speed hub gear, so using 1/8" chains on that bike. Not sure whether increased chain life is affected by the different chain construction between 1/8" single speed type and 3/32" derailleur chains or just by the absence of derailleurs, perfect chain line, and cleaner environment due to being further from the ground.
Did seem to get very slightly longer wear from the old 1970's 5-speed derailleur chains as compared to the more recent and more flexible 7/8 speed chains, but if it exists, the difference is much less significant than between hub gear and derailleur, might just be due to generally better chain lines with fewer rear sprockets rather than chain construction.
I have avoided derailleur gears with more than 8 sprockets on grounds of cost, more complicated maintenance and overkill of number of different gears.
-
5 speed hub gear, so using 1/8" chains on that bike.
Ah, got it; For some reason, I was thinking derailleurs and mentally substituted 5-sp freewheel (I still have a few of those) for 5-speed internally-geared hub when I read it. Thanks, Martin, that makes more sense now.
I do think my past outstanding derailleur chain life was/is due to my half-step gearing, where my favorite and most-used gear combos had nearly straight chainlines. Yes, the move to 9-sp cassettes meant the adoption of narrow chains, but also the loss of half-step gearing (no front derailleurs will handle the 2-tooth middle/high chainring difference required with a 9-sp cassette).
Mourning the old days of half-step gearing,
"Must adjust", Dan.
-
I've just today seen your post, Martin. The KMC Z and X chains are a smart choice for almost anyone: I think they're better than other chains by a larger proportion than their price is higher, and your experience proves it again. -- Andre Jute
Not in my experience. I have had 4 KMC Z8RB chains and overall they don't seem to wear better or worse than the cheapest locally available chain (SRAM PC 830 at the moment). I find brand and model don't seem to make much difference to wear, except for some Shimano chains in the 1970's that had bowed outer link plates that actually did seem to stretch (so-called chain stretch is due to wear in pins and rollers).
I think weather conditions and where I ride (sandy tracks, mud or nice clean tarmac) are the main factors for chain wear and mask any chain quality differences. This would probably not apply with a chaincase. Regular cleaning can help if the transmission picks up a lot of muck, but I generally just wipe as much dirt off as possible and re-oil when touring. I get better chain wear for local use because when necessary I can remove the chain, clean it and the sprockets/chainrings/derailleurs properly and relubricate.
I avoid modern Shimano chains when I can get an alternative (there wasn't an alternative in La Baneza) because I don't like the special rivet they say is necessary for rejoining the chain after splitting. I quite like the nickel-plated chains (SRAM PC890 is an example) as I have the impression dirt doesn't stick to them so easily and that they are easier to scrub clean, but haven't noticed any real wear advantage.
I also gave up on quick links (SRAM powerlink and similar) as I have had 2 come apart in use, and also occasionally needed to use pliers to separate them on very dirty chains. I don't carry pliers in my touring tool kit but do now carry a small chain breaker tool, necessary to cut the chain to the right length if buying one on tour. Not had problems breaking and joining KMC or SRAM 8-speed chains.
-
Finish Line Extreme Riding Conditions is my preferred one...not too expensive and does the job on my work commute and the road there is FILTHY after just one day I already feel the urge to get a bucket and soapy water out. Also, Northern Ireland, rain... ;)
So it's based on a grubby road with lots of damp, it might not suit best in arid conditions.
BTW salt in the air (we are near the sea here) really eats up your chains/metal so extra applying/cleaning is required. But no doubt that's common knowledge here... ;)
-
Hi All!
Traveling Two ( http://travellingtwo.com/resources/chain-l-bike-lube-review ) have just posted their test results for Chain-L bike lube. It has now edged out their previous favorite, Finish Line.
Chief among Chain-L's virtues they found are quiet running of the chain and longevity in use. Noted downsides are the potent smell and a flip-top cover that could open in a bag. Their experience so far covers only 3,0000km, but it has gone that distance without reapplication. They also mention a 10-minute soak-in period before use and suggest covering the floor beneath a newly-lubed chain to catch any drips.
Jags asked about this oil earlier in the thread, and this is a nice followup, based as it is on practical use by the testers. A bit light on substance , but still useful.
Best,
Dan.
-
Hi All!
Traveling Two ( http://travellingtwo.com/resources/chain-l-bike-lube-review ) have just posted their test results for Chain-L bike lube. It has now edged out their previous favorite, Finish Line.
Chief among Chain-L's virtues they found are quiet running of the chain and longevity in use. Noted downsides are the potent smell and a flip-top cover that could open in a bag. Their experience so far covers only 3,0000km, but it has gone that distance without reapplication. They also mention a 10-minute soak-in period before use and suggest covering the floor beneath a newly-lubed chain to catch any drips.
Jags asked about this oil earlier in the thread, and this is a nice followup, based as it is on practical use by the testers. A bit light on substance , but still useful.
Best,
Dan.
Hi Dan thanks thats a good write up ...
Pete...
:)
-
I think they said 300kms on that review page.
I'll stick with the Purple Extreme myself. It keeps my chain so nicely clean, does not attract junk, does not wash off in rain, and stays running smoothly for 600+kms. I used to use Finish Line Cross Country but Purple Extreme lasts so much longer between reapplications and keeps the chain far, far cleaner that it is not likely I'd ever go back to Finish Line.
-
Hi All!
I don't think the Travelling Two have used Chain-L long enough to draw a truly definitive conclusion, though their experience and results are helpful. I'm still mulling over some other reports about this lube.
An interim data point wrt Purple Extreme...
I'm trying Purple Extreme at Pete's urging and endorsement, and it is working out well so far, though I have yet to collect enough data to make any truly valid conclusions compared to what I've been using.
I do have some observations that square nicely with Pete's:
1) I applied it to a chain that had been soaked clean of prior lubricants using mineral spirits, then blown dry with filtered compressed air (and a line-drier). Found little mess or dirt collection on the chain itself, despite riding in dusty conditions and rain.
2) Seems to lube well in practice, making for a quiet chain.
3) the connecting link's pins when I removed the chain to check it for stretch as an interim measure.
4) There is some soak-in time require for the stuff to work effectively. At least 10 minutes is helpful, Though overnight seemed to help the oil better penetrate all the little nooks and crannies of the chain.
5) There seems to be a temporal element -- Purple Extreme appears to evaporate to a degree over time. I've lubed three chains with it, and the chains on bike that were mostly sitting for the same period needed re-lubrication as much as the "working" chains. I'm watching this, but it seems reasonable for there to be some carrier dispersion and evaporation. The carrier is bound to provide some lubricity as well as the core elements after evaporation and out-gassing, if any. I've got a little dish with some PE on it simmering on the shop hotplate at a very low temperature to see what happens over time and if there is an evaporative effect.
As I say, not enough use for me to draw any definitive conclusions, except it surely makes the chain nice and quiet when applied and for some time thereafter. Though I haven't tried the Chain-L, I'm a bit put off by reports of the strong odor. My previous preferred chain lubes consisted of frequent spray re-applications of WD-40s no longer available TAL-5, which was a completely different product than WD-40, which I am strongly prejudiced against, or a mix of 10W-40 petroleum motor oil or 15W synthetic motor oil, fortified with a bit of Phil Wood Tenacious Oil and applied carefully to each pin joit and allowed to soak in. In my use, Purple Extreme has far less sling and attracts far less dirt, and would be worth using for those reasons even if it did end up requiring more frequent application.
Still early days for me.
Best,
Dan.
-
Well for me it's been "Rock-n-Roll" Extreme I have been running with it for the last 7+ year's.
I have run Rohloff for wet (over 25mm of rain an hour) MTB race's
At the end of the day any lube is good as long as it's not dry the chain will last...................
Pete..
-
I had tried the green oil, but found it doesn't stay on the chain as long and needs more frequent application to keep the chain "wet" and greasy. Hmmmm....greasy chain. #homer simpson face.
However, as Teflon does seem to have some nasty environmental side-effects maybe I should just put in the effort.
And go to cotton Duck as Gore Tex is also Teflon, change my pots...argh the stuff IS everywhere.
(Can't we like not buy Teflon with guaranteed no dumping left-overs in environment as a higher price?)
-
Hi All!
Time to rev up this evergreen topic with a recent study conducted by our Dutch friends.
Original Dutch: http://www.motorstophelder.nl/anti-corrosie/index.htm
Google English-translated version: http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=nl&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.motorstophelder.nl%2Fanti-corrosie%2Findex.htm&act=url
TinyUrl in case your browser breaks the long link: http://tinyurl.com/agfdnzk
Thanks to a Dutch friend, here's the translation of what's on that page...
Following a discussion on a motorbike forum about rust protection, the writer of this page decided to do a simple test; buying seven identical steel tools (putty knives), treating them with seven different surface protectants, hanging them outside and spraying them with saline solution (1 teaspoon of salt in 1 l. water) once a week.
No. 1 is untreated.
No. 2 is treated with normal butter (of the cow variety, not some kind of vegetable product)
No. 3 is treated with WD-40
No. 4 is ACF-50
No. 5 is Tectyl Superwax
No. 6 is Vaseline Spray
No. 7 is S100.
Noteworthy in the text: after 7 weeks, due to warm weather the butter has melted off the surface, hence the decline of its protection. The text with the end result, after 11 weeks, says that Vaseline has become somewhat dirty but that doesn't take anything away from its protective quality - apparently, what you see in the last picture of no. 6 is dirt, not rust.
As mentioned previously on this Forum, while in grad school at uni, a friend from Taiwan lubed his bike chain with butter; always had, back home. Things took a sad turn when he bought American vegetable margarine, thinking it was the same. The salt in it flash-rusted the chain overnight. At the time, I had no idea genuine butter might have any merit as an anti-corrosive or lubricant, no matter how weak. Some Indian friends used ghee (clarified butter) as oil for door hinges and also for chains.
Best,
Dan. (...who could have been using butter all this time! :D)
-
Mmm. For years I used Vaseline as my all-purpose assembly and anti-rust grease. I went over to Finish Line White Teflon (and briefly their Ceramic Grease) mainly because it remained cleaner for longer, not because it gave better protection. Then Jags gave me a tube of Phil's ever-sticky, which smells nicer...
Andre Jute
-
Tectyl superwax it is then for protecting frames or Vaseline
(I actually pondered a few weeks ago that my tub of vaseline is probably good protecting my bottom bracket, frame hangers..but now I can't find the tub!!! Butter a bit hard to get on when it's cold ;)
pisbakplamuurmessen
I see Google struggles there lol
Pisbakstaal or pissoir steel is a common mechanics term for low grade poor quality steel. So pisbakplamuurmess is basically a filling knife made of very poor steel.
-
Yes it is. Prefer sudacrem though.
(I actually pondered a few weeks ago that my tub of vaseline is probably good protecting my bottom
-
Yes it is. Prefer sudacrem though.
i'm heavy on tha auld sudacrem meself after my ride today ;D ;D
as for lube i'm still using pro gold and tri flow on everything else .
hasn't failed me yet ;)
-
LOL ;D
Sudacreme better though for human bottom brackets ;D
-
tis great stuff but the shower was a tester. ;D ;D
-
Re vasaline it is quite normal practice for rowers to put it between their bum cheeks to stop friction burns from the repeated backwards and forwards action. Not the most polite thing to do in public and something they don't show on the annual boat race.
Andy
-
pisbakplamuurmessen
I see Google struggles there lol
No kidding, Jawine!
I had to do some uh..."editing" and ended up with "putty knife". I did spend a few moments pondering the translation-suggested use, but I clean my bathroom fixtures more frequently than the name implied! :D
All the best,
Dan. (...who loves languages and wishes he didn't have to depend on GoogleTranslate to understand them!)
-
Chain lube, yet again...
Silca (yes, the pump and now high-end tool people) have introduced a new wet lubricant they claim has tremendous anti-wear properties:
https://silca.cc/pages/synergetic-wet-lube
Anyone tried it yet? Friction reduction is only part of the equation when it comes to bicycle chain lube, as our Chainglider adherents can confirm. Exposure to dust, grit, rain all introduce various forms of contaminants and "grinding paste" into the mix. If this lubricant reduces friction but is sticky and attracts and holds grit, then real-world performance could be very different from lab results.
I have no financial or personal interest in the product, just curious if anyone has found it "better" in practical use.
Best,
Dan.
-
If it's a wet lube then no matter what is claimed, an exposed chain will collect dirt forming a grinding paste with time. I can't see me going back to "Wet" lubes having tried Wax plus PTFE (10:1)
-
Dan. (...who loves languages and wishes he didn't have to depend on GoogleTranslate to understand them!)
Pffft. I learned Russian, a language in modern times spoken with an ugly Ukrainian accent, to understand the Russian operas. Their lyrics were worse than the Italian type of, "Darling, send out for another pizza! And meanwhile, scratch just a little higher up my back!", just transliterated to the steppes, with extra melodrama.
I used dry wax for several years, inside those big Dutch chain cases of various kinds. The wax worked exceedingly well: for instance, you'd think a chain washed in paraffin and then in white spirits would have not a trace of liquidized chain lube on it, but the white wax falling in balls to the bottom of the chain case would be ever lighter shades of grey. The problem with the wax is that it doesn't last very long even inside a chain case, which is a nuisance to take off and replace, and on an open chain I wouldn't want to commute on dry wax because you'd be waxing every few days.
-
Star Poster badge for Andre today!
Wrapping up some practical cycling advice with tales of Russian and Italian opera is a skill to be admired and never undervalued. I always read Andre’s posts at least twice!
-
Yes it is. Prefer sudacrem though.
(I actually pondered a few weeks ago that my tub of vaseline is probably good protecting my bottom
Try Conotrane actually available many Pharmacies and even on Amazon UK. It works better than any Chamois cream and better than Sudcrem in my experience. Smells nicer also!
As for on the drive chain. Any wet or dry cycle chain lube works.
-
This is an old post nevertheless I just wanted to add my experience with Squirt Lube. It's fantastic! The secret is making sure all existing lube is removed from the chain before applying; this includes factory applied lube on new chains. The chain attracts very little dirt, even in wet conditions and chain wear appears to be significantly less than that when a wet lube is applied.