Thorn Cycles Forum
Technical => Transmission => Topic started by: julk on May 19, 2021, 12:20:21 pm
-
Hi all,
I have had a chainglider on my Rohloff Thorn for nearly 9 years.
I fitted it on a Rohloff 99 chain with some Rohloff chain oil added.
I do between 1 and 2 thousand miles a year now, it was more in the past.
I decided today was the time to take the chainglider off and have a good look at the chain/sprocket and see what replacement/cleaning/oiling/adjustment was needed.
On removing the chainglider I was amazed at the excellent condition the transmission was in.
Checking the chain with a Rohloff chain checker showed hardly any wear, the A side (0.75mm) only just went in a fraction.
The chain was pretty clean and evenly lubricated, the up/down slack was 25mm at mid point.
There was hardly any dirt inside the chainglider, only by the chainring which is a thin stainless one.
The rear sprocket looked in good condition.
I oiled the chain with Rohloff chain oil again and refitted the chainglider.
I suspect this combination will see me out…
Julian.
-
I suspect this combination will see me out…
+1 👍
Thanks, Julian
-
Checking for chain lubrication once every nine years - is that a record ?
I try and check the condition of the chain at least once a year on the family bikes fitted with Chaingliders.
Very often it is just:
- remove Chainglider,
- quick visual check,
- refit Chainglider without doing anything else.
-
I really don't know what is happening to cycling. Once upon a time cycling was a necessity for hard men with gnarly hands riding to work, now respectable cyclists use German portmanteau words like Chainglider, and check their chain every year or nine -- and get away with it!
I ask you: What will it all come to?
-
I am in to almost 5000km of Chainglider ownership. Mine has been off a a couple of times for tyre changes and other maintenance. But I’m convinced the glider has slowed wear and chain maintenance and well worth the minor purchase cost.
I know there are a few Chainglider dislikes (haters is perhaps too extreme) in the forum. I cannot speak for them. But I am a convert. I rarely clean my bike. So if you see the dried mess on my chainglider from the last couple of weeks, you can see how much grime has been kept away from the chain. And keeping the crud out means longer gaps between lubrication intervals and less friction on the chain which stays clean.
-
Snap, Steve.
Mine has been on for 7+ years and all of my tours.
So, 14,000 miles / 22.000+Km
Within the last six months one of the 'tags/clips' at the front part has malfunctioned. This leaves a small gap. The issue is solved with a small piece of black gorilla tape.
Given the length of service over some demanding rides/ weather/ winters, I don't count this against the Chainglider.
-
I know there are a few Chainglider dislikes (haters is perhaps too extreme) in the forum. I cannot speak for them. But I am a convert.
I have no like for them - aesthetics, complicates wheel removal, simply doesn't address any issue I've had.
But that's on my bike, I have no dislike about whatever anyone else does to theirs.
Where it gets complicated is where people are advocating without appreciating their opinions might not be the only ones, but hey-ho such is life.
-
I am in to almost 5000km of Chainglider ownership. Mine has been off a a couple of times for tyre changes and other maintenance. But I’m convinced the glider has slowed wear and chain maintenance and well worth the minor purchase cost.
I know there are a few Chainglider dislikes (haters is perhaps too extreme) in the forum. I cannot speak for them. But I am a convert. I rarely clean my bike. So if you see the dried mess on my chainglider from the last couple of weeks, you can see how much grime has been kept away from the chain. And keeping the crud out means longer gaps between lubrication intervals and less friction on the chain which stays clean.
Me too. Wouldn't ride without one on the bike that it is currently on. Had a rocky start with it though, but persevered and now I take it for granted. The few disadvantages far out weigh the many and compelling advantages of fitting one. Two thumbs up from me.
-
I've gone from sceptic to fan. I now have Chaingliders on 6 of the 12 family bikes.
I've noticed that sometimes I don't choose my Raven Sport Tour because of the weather or the type of route because I want to try and keep the chain clean. So I will probably go through the hassle of fitting a Chainglider to this bike, where I will have to change the chainring and cut the rear section of a Chainglider to fit the seatstay.
The other 5 bikes can't be fitted with a Chainglider - 3 Bromptons, my old derailleur lightweight (hardly ever used now) and one of the visitor bikes that has vertical dropouts and hence needs a chain tensioner. The latter is a nuisance, because on that bike a Chainglider would have the added bonus of keeping chain lube off ordinary clothing and preventing loose clothing from catching between chainring and chain.
Not for everyone :
- It will only fit hub gear or single-speed bikes with a specific range of chainring/sprocket sizes. And on some frames it will interfere with the seatstay.
- Some chainrings (notably the excellent Thorn ones) will rub. This may or may not reduce to an acceptable level after the ring/Chainglider wear together. On my old utility bike with 1/8" TA chainring I stopped noticing the rubbing noise after a few hundred kms, and there was no significant friction from the beginning.
- If used in very dirty/wet conditions, some muck and water will still get in. IMO the Chainglider is still very useful in these conditions as it allows much longer maintenance intervals.
- Aesthetics. People have different criteria concerning this. I quite like the look, and prefer it to seeing a dirty chain that would make me feel guilty about not cleaning it. Then again, the questionable aesthetics of cable ties, bolt on light brackets and so on don't bother me when these items serve a purpose.
-
An observation on this thread progress:
Genuinely impressed with the way folks state their case/ opinion and leave it there.
None of the typical 'Facebook' rants & raves.
Makes membership of this Forum a pleasure.
Best
Matt
-
One other thing 'bout my 'glider, let me call it an asset: I was rereading my journal of my ride through the Rockies & Cascadia to the western ocean in 2016, and I noticed that on several occasions, my 'glider became a conversation piece, along with the Rohloff. That led to enjoyable moments. I had to explain to some folks, tho', that I wasn't avant-garde, just an OWF -- that plastic thingy kept me chain clean, it wasn't a carbon belt.
Cheers, J.
-
I had a chain glider on my old raven tour. It worked pretty well although mud and water did get in. I removed it each year for cleaning. I couldn’t get it to run smoothly on my raven sport tour which has much tighter clearances so it was discarded. There are times I miss it on muddy tracks but in general the periodic change of the transmission is not that expensive or difficult.
-
An observation on this thread progress:
Genuinely impressed with the way folks state their case/ opinion and leave it there.
None of the typical 'Facebook' rants & raves.
Makes membership of this Forum a pleasure.
Best
Matt
Yes, this is a great forum. I think i may have given up on Facebook for life. Might go back but at this point in my life it’s not good for my health ☺️ Still have an account which is handy for other things, but deleted all my friends and said farewell.
il say it again, well done chaps, THIS IS A GREAT FORUM 🙂
-
A very positive move re Facebook. Empowering I guess, not being a user of it. Always thought it was a partly useful thing but also the repository of the unappealing. Here is a great place to learn, enjoy, exchange, partially vent one’s spleen, all founded upon our shared enjoyment of Thorn bikes and riding them. Exiting pulpit now 😉
-
Update to my May 2021 post:
8 of the family bikes now have a Chainglider fitted - I converted my old derailleur lightweight with an S5/2 five-speed hub gear and put a Chainglider on it. I'm using it a little more often now.
So I now have 3 Brompton folders and 1 bike with vertical dropouts remaining without Chaingliders.
-
A cautionary note regarding a Chainglider and the Mercury: I've taken the Chainglider off my Mercury ready for the bike's rehoming and noticed that the Chainglider had worn all the paint off a small part of the seat stay. I knew it was a tight fit and had cut a piece out of the Chainglider where there was minimal clearance (and had put some duct tape over the hole in the Chainglider) but clearly there had been some rubbing. I've put a couple of layers of primer on the affected area (this looks rough but it's very difficult to get a smooth finish with a little touch-up brush). There had been earlier concerns about the Chainglider rubbing on the Rohloff hub shell but there's zero problem in that area.
If I were refitting the Chainglider I would wrap a piece of thin aluminium around the relevant part of the seat stay to protect the paint from being rubbed off. Another alternative would be the Open Chainglider which I've fitted on my new bike because it has a chain tensioner. However, I feel that this is creating more friction than the full Chainglider which meeds further investigation - a pending test is to remove it and see if I go faster (which will need several tests to allow for other effects such as the wind).
-
Even those of us who give the bike a casual wipe-down with a piece of dampened kitchen roll every six months or so, work at the back of the bike at least once a year for the Rohloff oil change. That would be a good time to add a close inspection of the frame tubes thereabouts for rubbing damage to the minimum list of tasks like inspecting bolts and brake blocks and electrical connections. As it happens, I'm doing an oil change right now in preparation for a glorious summer full of rides, and I'll take a look at the tubes through the spokes and over the Rohloff.
***
I've wondered about the Open Chainglider whether it carries crud into its tubes from the open section. Do let us know as you gain experience, JohnR.
-
I've wondered about the Open Chainglider whether it carries crud into its tubes from the open section. Do let us know as you gain experience, JohnR.
Having used my old utility bike in some fairly dirty conditions last winter, the muck I wipe off the outside of the chainglider is concentrated in 3 places, in decreasing order:
- the top of the upper Chainglider run near the tyre. This collects muck that comes off the tyre, and some muck and water dislodged from the rim by the brake pads.
- the front of the chainglider. A lot of muck that would otherwise collect here is stopped by the fairly low front mudflap. But I don't want this too low, as there is then a risk of picking up debris that might lock the front wheel.
- the top of the lower Chainglider run near the tyre. This is cleaner than the upper chainglider run, as the latter and the chain stay intercept quite a lot of the muck.
So I reckon that even though it can't be as effective as the traditional version, the Open Chainglider might be worth having, so long as it doesn't add too much friction.
-
Thanks Martin.
My lanes are all tarmac and clean, so only light dust settles on my bike, but the pattern on my Chainglider is the same as on yours; the rear of the Chainglider is clean. In wet conditions the Chainglider on my bike doesn't get much opportunity to prove its worth because the mudguards, SKS P65, are fitted closely over the 60mm tyres with only 1mm clearance, the lower ends of the mudguards are below bottom bracket level, and in addition the front one has small but very effective SKS "mudflap" (more like hard rubber aero device) fitted to direct water downwards. I cycle in sandals well into the winter and don't particularly notice that my feet become either wet or cold.
-
Thanks, John, for this heads-up on the 'glider and the Mercury. I'll bear your advice in mind when I set up the 'glider on my new Mercury in May. I'll have to do some plastic surgery on the 'glider in any case, because I plan to run a 36T chainring; and, from my experience with the Raven, had expected to nip off a corner from the rear section in any case.
The Mercury will have a pair of Velo Orange fluted Zeppelin mudguards, 650B x 52mm. These have worked well on the Raven, and the tires on each bike are 1.6" Marathon Supremes. Photos on all that to come in due course (i.e., late spring/early summer).
Am writing this from Down Unda--the Gold Coast in Queensland, where we're visiting our son and his family. I've brought my derailleur bike for some day rides, but over the last 36 hours we've had some 400mm of rain (no typos pls note!), so no riding just yet.
Cheers, John
-
Oh you have to visit 5B2F Bakehouse @ Southport for some divine sausage rolls and a myriad of other healthy bakes and cakes. 😊
-
This may not be relevant to this thread, but...
Andre posted
"I cycle in sandals well into the winter and don't particularly notice that my feet become either wet or cold."
I feel responsible for starting this thread with my 9 year chain glider checkups.
However, I also ride in sandals, but bare foot. I gave up on socks some years ago - not sure how many.
My circulation seems to cope, I have no frostbite yet.
Feel free to comment on Andre’s and my reckless footwear behaviours.
Julian
-
you have to visit 5B2F Bakehouse @ Southport for some divine sausage rolls
Thanks, Ian -- will check it out. The rain has finally stopped. :)
Feel free to comment on Andre’s and my reckless footwear behaviours.
Well, guys, whatever turns your crank; or, there's winter and there's winter...A friend in Ottawa said that Monday night was around -14, windchill -23, and this was near the end of March. 'Twas the 40 kmh nor'westerly that did it...
You're more than welcome to come visit betw early December & early April, and we could even rent a fatbike to ride. You could probably manage w really thick sox under your sandals and a big strong plastic bag over the lot; but there are real winter boots that are reasonably flexible & suited to a fatbike. (And a PS: no-one need ever know ;))
Cheers, J.
-
Continuing on the sandal digression, I attach a photo of my favourite cycling footwear: Clarks "Wavewalk" which work well with flat pedals as they are extra thick under the ball of the foot. They get used for at least 6 months of the year and waterproof socks provide some protection against colder conditions but for winter I use oversized walking boots with room for two pairs of socks.
Back on topic, I'm planning to check inside the open Chainglidger when the next spell of warm weather shows up. I think the main source of muck on chain is that carried round by the back tyre. Some splatter is intercepted by the top part of the Chainglider but some lands on the bottom part of the chain.
-
Nice sandle John.
My UK Clarks web search does not reveal them.
Any further info?
( sorry to dilute the thread )
I'm a big Chainglider fan - so interested to hear above comments.
I've found that it holds water after a good soaking / cleaning.
It's as good as keeping water out - as keping it in!
So now I am very careful when cleaning my Raven - and remove the 'glider after every power clean - and wipe the chain down.
-
My UK Clarks web search does not reveal them.
Any further info?
Those sandals are evidently discontinued. The pair in the photo are my 2nd (backup in case the 1st pair suffer plastic fatigue) and were found last week in a Clarks Outlet shop - probably been lurking in the corner of a stockroom. The Clarks Outlet website lists a couple of other sandals with "wave" in the name and should have a similar structure but probably different sole pattern.
I've found that it holds water after a good soaking / cleaning.
It's as good as keeping water out - as keping it in!
Is the drain hole in the bottom of the chainring cover blocked?
-
Matt: With or without a Chainglider, I wouldn't wash a steel bike with a power wash. A safer way is soapy warm water applied with a bushy soft brush kept only for that purpose.
JohnR: That "drain hole" in the Chainglider is a pinhole that I expect will form a skein of water between its edges. It's a decorative feature, not a water exit. I wouldn't make it bigger either, for fear that more water would ingress than be expelled through it.
-
Yes, Andre, I never power wash. It was just a hosepipe wash. But point taken. A hand job with soapie warm water is the way to go.
Nope, drain hole was nae blocked. I think the water just hung about inside.
I look upon the 'glider as very good protection from outside muck n water. Not 100% but enough to extend my chain life ( not proven ) and my trouser leg turn ups life ( proven / verified by Mrs. Matt ).
Best
Matt
-
An update regarding the Open Chainglider which I took off a couple of weeks ago to see if the bike would go faster without it as there were times when it was feeling a little draggy. I noticed after removal that there was a small build-up of muck at one point on the inside (by the end of the screwdriver in the attached photo) which could explain the slight friction between Chainglider and chainring. As only half the chain is protected by an Open Chainglider I did apply a bit of lube from time to time. The chain itself was a cheap KMC Z1 (narrow) and proved to be somewhat filthy when given a good scrub with a chain cleaner.
I then thought I would try, for the summer, using a chainguard to provide a little protection between me and the chainring and the chain was treated with Weldtite TF2 ceramic chain wax. It ran very sweetly for a few days. However, my first outing after a trip in rain revealed that the TF2 lube had all washed off and the chain was making unhappy noises with some signs of rust. I'm not accustomed, after using a Chainglider, to having to dry and re-lube a chain after cycling in the rain. This experience highlighted that while the Open Chainglider only covers about half the chain, it probably provides 80% protection because a major source of water and muck is that thrown up by the front tyre. The spray situation was not helped by me fitting short clip-on mudguards for the summer so I've now added Brompton mudflaps https://www.sjscycles.co.uk/mudguards/brompton-front-mud-flap both front and back to reduce the spray (see photo).
It's a matter of how long, not if, before the Chainglider goes back on the bike but trying without it reveals the benefits. I'm also planning to try a half link to see if that provides a suitable chain fit without using the tensioner, in which case a full Chainglider would work. Changing the 42T chainring to 41T is another option to improve the chain fit but I'm not sure how well a Chainglider designed for a 42T chainring will sit on a 42T ring.
-
Super update, John, very useful, especially your estimate of 80 per cent of the benefit for half the chain coverage.
Changing the 42T chainring to 41T is another option to improve the chain fit but I'm not sure how well a Chainglider designed for a 42T chainring will sit on a 42T ring.
This is an interesting variation of an experiment we’ve been through before, when Hebie themselves misled forum member Frank Revelo with a claim that a 38T Chainglider is suitable for a 36T chainring. It isn’t. Frank supplied a photo of an ugly mismatch.
Putting a 41T chainring in a 42T Chainglider may be less of a mismatch but I think it will still be an eyesore and a route for inducting dirt into the chain. However, if you already have the 41T chainring, I’d be delighted to be proved wrong when you fit it up.
John Saxby had a more successful carve-your-own-Chainglider session, which also left a part of the chainring uncovered but more tidily than Frank’s Hebie-inspired mismatch.
-
It all gets so complicated, eh?
John Saxby had a more successful carve-your-own-Chainglider session, which also left a part of the chainring uncovered but more tidily than Frank’s Hebie-inspired mismatch.
In the next few days, I'm going to dress up my spiffy new Mercury (36 x 17 ring/sprocket) with my equally new but less spiffy 38T 'glider. I expect to do some surgery at the back, where the 'glider kisses the seatstay, and will wait to see how ugly is the mismatch at the front. Then, I'll decide whether to adjust my expectations or resort to the knife once more.
Stand by for breaking news, but don't hold your breath or postpone any rides ;)
-
Good to hear about your plans.
I run 38/17 on my Raven Tour with a 'glider.
I can't imagine being without it after so many years.
Best
Matt
-
Super update, John, very useful, especially your estimate of 80 per cent of the benefit for half the chain coverage.
It's a guesstimate and might be on the low side. The main unknown is how much muck gets carried round on the rear tyre and dropped onto the lower part of the chain just after it leaves the protection around the chainring. There's also some splatter in the sprocket area but this tends to be quite small as demonstrated by the low rate of muck build-up on the Rohloff hub.
-
Many thanks again to all the folks who helped me out with my squeak.
As mentioned - it turned out to be the front part of the Chainglider.
New part now fitted and quiet as a church mouse now.
I checked my stats:
Original part fitted October 2015.
24,868 miles / 40,000+ Km covered over 8 years 9 months.
The small clips started to fail and I ran it with tape holding things together for a month or so. Eventually the whole thing came apart and wrapped itself around the off side crank.
I think it's been good value and I wouldn't cycle without one now. But of course respect other folks opinions.
The rear part is quite robust and did not require replacement.
Best
Matt the Church Mouse.
-
Many thanks again to all the folks who helped me out with my squeak.
As mentioned - it turned out to be the front part of the Chainglider.
New part now fitted and quiet as a church mouse now.
I checked my stats:
Original part fitted October 2015.
24,868 miles / 40,000+ Km covered over 8 years 9 months.
The small clips started to fail and I ran it with tape holding things together for a month or so. Eventually the whole thing came apart and wrapped itself around the off side crank.
I think it's been good value and I wouldn't cycle without one now. But of course respect other folks opinions.
The rear part is quite robust and did not require replacement.
Best
Matt the Church Mouse.
Thanks, Matt.
That gives us a lifespan for a Chainglider of 25,000m/40,000km to shoot at.
For comparison, my first bike electrification scheme cost under Euro 500 and was seen by me in advance as a learning experience with an unknown but definite finite expiry date. I was so much satisfied that I'd made a good investment that, when the installation had to be replaced at 3500m, I bought a stronger motor of the same brand.
It's for Matt to say whether his Chainglider had a hard life, but from his reports of his tours, it clearly hasn't been mollycoddled, so some of us may be able to get more miles out of a Chainglider.
Personally, I'd be perfectly satisfied if I got Matt's 25K miles out of such a radical c50 Euro component bought without knowing precisely how it works. We still don't know how it works, hence:
I hope you haven't thrown your original, worn-out Chainglider away yet, Matt, because a question does arise: Is there any sign, except for the failure of the passive slot-and-tongue fixing scheme, that any part of the Chainglider has been worn by contact with the chain or the gears?
Thanks again, Matt.
-
I think it's been good value and I wouldn't cycle without one now. But of course respect other folks opinions.
Glad you got it sorted and you replacing like with like is enough proof how well it suits you. I think 25,000 miles out of any component is good going. I'm going to guess that the vast majority of bikes sold never do that in their lifetime.
I still can't imagine me ever using one! But have no opinion on others doing so.
-
Just to note...
The Hebie No. 9386 product information guide available here...
https://www.hebie.de/fileadmin/pdf/chainglider/9386_Anhaengekarte_CG_2022_web.pdf
...states...
• Lubricate the chain sufficiently.
• Keep the clipping surface free from lubrication.
• Not to use a chain with spring link
(max. width of the chain!).
• Note the specific chain tension.
• Please clean the CHAINGLIDER inside regularly.
• Capacity at least approx. 15.000 km
At one point in my past correspondence with their then-representative Ron Hout urging Hebie to produce a model for 36t chainrings, he linked to further information that said it was important to smear a very light coating of grease on the inside of the chain case in proximity to the chain run to prevent squeaks.
That view is supported by the untranslated German text at their Service FAQ ( https://www.hebie.de/en/service/faq/ )which -- after translation -- reads...
Noise development on a very uneven road (cobblestones, etc.) - explanations and additional information!
The Chainglider offers the best protection for the drive chain with the slimmest look at the same time. The unique concept of "sliding" on the chain involves contact with it.
As a rule, drive chains are not additionally lubricated by the bicycle manufacturer after assembly beyond the initial lubrication by the chain manufacturer. Additional lubrication at the factory is often undesirable to avoid that too many drops of new bicycles soil the floor in the shop (drainage hole in the chain glider).
In the case of dry-mounted chain gliders without any additional lubrication, rattling noises can occur on very uneven surfaces. A relatively viscous lubrication in the chain glider dampens these noises excellently.
Hebie recommends bicycle manufacturers to apply a thin layer of grease during initial assembly or to introduce viscous chain fluid through the oil hole in the chain glider after assembly. A mix of tough (grease) and slightly thinner chain lubricants has also shown good results. [Emphasis Dan's] Sufficient chain care should take place at the latest during the first inspection, since the initial lubrication of the chain by the chain manufacturer mainly has preservation properties and is not designed for long running times.*
With this and the all-round protection of the chain glider, a significant increase in the service life of the drive is possible. Also because moderate "supply lubrication" is possible in the chain glider.
Maintenance intervals at which the inside of the Chainglider (or the chain as well) should be cleaned and supplied with new lubricant depend in particular on the type and amount of dirt.
In any case, the protection and thus the service life of the entire drive is higher with a correctly lubricated chain in connection with the Chainglider than with a completely open chain that is directly exposed to all environmental influences.
It might be that an interior cleaning and thin greasing of Matt's old Chainglider could return it to squeak-free service. It would be fun to see. :)
It is worth noting the English-language entry in their current Service FAQ available at the same link ( https://www.hebie.de/en/service/faq/ )...contradicts the German entry, saying...
Which chain lubricant should I use for a Chainglider?
You do not need a specific lubricant for the Chainglider. Good results have been achieved with a dry film spray. Normal chain lubricants are also suitable. Take care that the lubricant is spread well and avoid or remove residues on the contact surfaces of the Chainglider. No more of the chain lubricant is used for a Chainglider than for a chain without a Chainglider.
Note: Chainglider assembly instructions, illustrations and cautions available here...
https://www.hebie.de/fileadmin/pdf/chainglider/9418_Chainglider_Anbauhinweise-2.0__3mm.pdf
Best, Dan.
*Of particular note from the English translation of the German at the Service FAQ above... Sufficient chain care should take place at the latest during the first inspection, since the initial lubrication of the chain by the chain manufacturer mainly has preservation properties and is not designed for long running times.
contradicts Andre's experience running the chain on its original factory lube within the Chainglider for as long as possible.
For another take on this, see...
https://www.velonews.com/gear/tech-wearables/technical-faq-should-you-leave-the-factory-lube-on-a-new-chain/
For what it is worth, I have always dunked my freshly opened derailleur chains in my dash tank filled with mineral spirits, drained thoroughly, blown dry with compressed air, then relubed with aftermarket lubricant which I allow to penetrate for at least 24 hours before using the bike, at which point I wipe off any excess with a paper towel to prevent slinging. I reapply lubricant about every 500kms depending on conditions, more if it is particularly wet or dusty. I've had remarkably long chain life as a result on open derailleur drivetrains where the chains are more flexible/flex more. On my Fixie and Rohloff, I am unable to fit Chaingliders** and I've had much better luck/longevity leaving the factory lube in place than on my derailleur drives. I think the difference may be due to the straight chainline and relatively unflexed chains on the non-derailleur bikes and my occasional fitting of 1/8in track chains, which are pretty premium in terms of tolerances and can only be made to flex sideways a very small amount in comparison to derailleur chains.
**My Chainglider fitment problems on my Nomad are due to running a stainless steel Surly 36t chainring (x 17t sprocket) in 104mm BCD to fit my Shimano Deore crankset with external/outboard bearing bottom bracket. I prefer Surly stainless for its thinness and long service life, but Surly do not produce a chainring larger than 36t in this 104mm BCD, so unless I change my Surly chainring, present crankset and expensive Phil Wood bottom bracket, I am unable to fit a Chainglider. Hebie so far have not been willing to produce a 36t compatible Chainglider front assembly, citing Rohloff's former ratio restrictions that have since been updated to allow such gearing. This is all worth noting if you spec your new Thorn bike with Rohloff hub to run a sub-38t chainring on a 104mm BCD crankset and wish to later fit a Chainglider. I would instead recommend a 110mm BCD crankset (most likely designed to fit a square taper internal bottom bracket) as Surly produce a much wider range of stainless chainrings in that BCD so a 38t or 42t Hebie front section could be easily accommodated.
-
Hi Andre, I did indeed keep the old 'glider and attach pics.
Interested to read Dan's post re a small amount of lube inside 'glider.
I'll sure try that.
Thanks Dan.
No wear visible on my ol' 'glider. More age related wear after so long and so many miles.
If that makes sense?
I guess we all slow down after a while.
Hope the pictures are of interest.
Would my Phil's waterproof grease be suitable inside the 'glider?
I'll be picking up a few tubes when I visit my son in NYC, Matawan, come August.
-
Would my Phil's waterproof grease be suitable inside the 'glider?
I really can't say, but it might be fun to try inside the old one (after cleaning the interior) to see if it stops the squeak -- based on the English translation of Hebie's German-language entry in their Service FAQ. I don't see what you'd lose except a small amount of expensive grease (which you might wish to save for other purposes, given the cost).
Your Chainglider looks pretty weather-checked, Matt...even inside. I'd say it gave you stellar service to this point and may well deserve retirement. However, if you are of a curious nature.... :D
Best, Dan.
-
Thanks Dan.
However given that the clips have failed I think I'll skip the trial.
However, if you are of a curious nature.... :D
Matt
-
The photos are indeed of riveting interest, Matt. Thanks. I must say your Chainglider looks better than any of my Dutch plastic chain cases looked at 3200km, which is the longest any of them lasted*. But what Dan calls "weather-check[ing] inside" and the worn-out fitting systems of the slots and tongues do indicate retirement: a chain guard which can't keep the weather out any longer has finished serving.
I think you're smart to skip the trial of putting Phil's green goo on a Chainglidered chain, even if only on grounds of the likely cost to conduct the experiment thoroughly, several hundred pounds minimum for enough Phil. Why? Phil's lube works by going squishy where there is movement between parts, which describes a chain's many components in dynamic relationship to each other, and also the chain's dynamic relationship to the toothed metal wheelies. The Phil's remaining green and thick holds in the thinned goo. Some of that thin stuff, no matter how well it lubricates, is likely to come out of the Chainglider, which after all has a drain hole, and get on braking surfaces, and on your clothes, and require frequent cleaning -- and by then the purpose of the Chainglider is long obviated. Perhaps you could avoid action-thinned Phil's goo dripping out by packing the whole of the Chainglider with the Phil's, as Dan and I do with various much less capacious spaces inside the Rohloff's EXT box (or boxes, to be inclusive of all faiths and heresies and kibitzers), in which application the unliquified Phil's makes a barrier to the thinner stuff created by the motion between close-fitting parts. I just don't see that the expense of a whole Chainglider full of Phil's is warranted.
*My original article about chain guards, "A Fully Enclosed Chaincase That Works" at
http://thorncyclesforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=2233.msg10717#msg10717 (http://thorncyclesforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=2233.msg10717#msg10717)
can in retrospect be seen as a valedictory for the Dutch style of metal or plastic fully enclosing chain cover, and an announcement of the successful challenger, the Chainglider via Utopia's Country chain case (something similar to the Hebie Chainglider in appearance but in design and construction more akin to a hybrid).
-
I'm starting to wonder whether Hebie designed the Chainglider in-house, or whether Hebie, a bicycle-component distributor, merely branded a product designed and manufactured by someone else. Over the years there has been so much ignorance and contradiction about their own product coming out of Hebie, far more than one would expect from a firm where the proud engineer who fathered a successful product still sits at his drawing board just down the hall from publicity and customer support (you can probably bet that the product manager in charge is now a marketing manager somewhere bigger). What strikes one forcefully, again, in the sources Dan cites is that they're contradictory beyond belief for an engineering firm, and even more so for a German engineering firm.
*Of particular note from the English translation of the German at the Service FAQ above...
Sufficient chain care should take place at the latest during the first inspection, since the initial lubrication of the chain by the chain manufacturer mainly has preservation properties and is not designed for long running times.
contradicts Andre's experience running the chain on its original factory lube within the Chainglider for as long as possible.
Hmm. I think I'll stick to my proven ways, thanks all the same.
However, just a reminder: I designed and developed my bike as an exercise towards a zero-routine-maintenance, minimum-service, rare-component-replacement bike. I specifically don't care about the mickey mouse cost of unoptimised chain by running solely on the factory lube or even throwing it off at only two-thirds worn (0.5 rather than 0.75) when that coincides with the annual oil change on the Rohloff. I get a thrill from getting three times and change the best chain mileage I got under previous arrangements, even without optimising the potential distance obtainable from running the chain to death, but that's a fringe benefit to riding a permanently clean, silent, comfortable, undemanding bike.
It is quite possible, and supported by my own previous experience, that adding Oil of Rohloff (the best lube I know) to a chain inside a chain guard will potentiate an even bigger gain in chain life than running it for life on the factory lube, as I've being doing instead, but again, I can't be bothered if the chain won't go a full additional year so that replacement can coincide with the next gearbox oil change. I'd rather ride than fiddle with my bike.
Also, for those who can't resist the habit of lubing the chain, even inside a Chainglider, Oil of Rolloff applied sparingly (it comes in a small bottle with a dropper spout as a pretty strong hint) would make the least mess inside the Chainglider of all the lubes I know, including white cold wax (which drops grey balls of dirty wax from the chain but is otherwise pretty clean).
***
Something else developing with additional mileage on my bike under the present regime is a dawning realisation that replacing chains earlier rather than later must be at least partially, possibly largely, responsible for the virtually unmarked condition of the sprocket at c11,000km, with the plain steel (and not the best quality either as the centre motor necessitates fitting the component that comes with the motor) chainring also unmarked at 7500km, not numbers I ever thought I'd see when I fit Shimano's Nexus groups (if I saw anything over 1600km on them, never mind 2000, I opened champagne and wondered if I were on my way to becoming a spinner...). The balance of this benefit, however much it is, of course arises from the Chainglider keeping out dirt.
-
I think this is a good a place as any to note that I've just fitted a Bikepunx stainless steel chainring. I had a Surly chainring on the wishlist but this is a less expensive alternative. The website is here https://bikepunx.com/ but the shop is broken so they are currently selling on ebay https://www.ebay.co.uk/str/bikepunxuk. The chainrings are either 2mm (for 3/32" chain) or 3mm (for 1/8" chain). I bought a 42T 2mm (last one in stock) to put inside my Chainglider. Previously I've been using a Jet steel chainring https://www.sourcebmx.com/products/jet-bmx-5-bolt-race-chainring?currency=gbp which was starting to look tatty and it's also 2.4mm thick so is a tighter fit inside the Chainglider. There is also a significant difference in weight (Bikepunx = 125g, Jet = 210g) which is a combination of difference in thickness and the Bikepunx ring having more metal machined away.
While I was fiddling with the bike (my Elan Ti) I also tried to fit a KMC 3/32" half link on the KMC Z1 narrow chain to see if I could do away with the chain tensioner. The length of the chain with the half link looked as if it might work but I couldn't get the missing link to close when connected to the half link which seems to have slightly thicker links and the missing link, when open, was catching on the half link. I'm now wondering if a solution would be to insert the half link somewhere else on the chain.