Thorn Cycles Forum

Technical => Wheels, Tyres and Brakes => Topic started by: steve216c on December 11, 2020, 12:43:58 pm

Title: Are winter tyres/spikes worth it for riding on frosty days
Post by: steve216c on December 11, 2020, 12:43:58 pm
Last year I crashed my bike and broke my ribs. That was on wet leaves and on cobblestones. Around 8 weeks later I was back on the bike and riding back from physio for the ribs and came a cropper on a frosty bike path.

Berlin doesn't get much snow but is often frosty in the morning, particular the bike paths. Blitzeis (rain freezing on ground contact) happens occasionally but hard overnight frosts can make for visible and black ice conditions- and my commute requires crossing bridges where this is a given many mornings. The Germans talk about winter tyres for cars from O (October) to O (Ostern=Easter), and our winters do drag quite a bit longer than those back in the home counties where I originally hail from.

I don't want to constantly change tyres, so would plan to leave them on until spring sets in- but commute roundtrip is around 20 miles a day. I don't want riding on spikes to be a chore. I ride Marathon Plus usually. I'd be less inclined to cycle if snow is laying- so not so worried about snow performance. 

But would they make a difference if just for frosty conditions I mentioned???

RoseBikes have some Schwalbe Winter Active spikes at a very tempting EUR price (UK price GBP21).

Any suggestions gratefully received :)

Steve
Title: Re: Are winter tyres/spikes worth it for riding on frosty days
Post by: kwkirby01 on December 11, 2020, 01:04:22 pm
I spent a couple of years commuting with winter tyres, and although slower, I did feel much safer in frosty weather.
The Schwalbe tyres I used had off-centre spikes to arrest a slip, so that for most riding the spikes were not used.
This seemed a pretty good compromise to me. Hope this helps.
Title: Re: Are winter tyres/spikes worth it for riding on frosty days
Post by: steve216c on December 11, 2020, 03:15:47 pm
I spent a couple of years commuting with winter tyres, and although slower, I did feel much safer in frosty weather.
The Schwalbe tyres I used had off-centre spikes to arrest a slip, so that for most riding the spikes were not used.
This seemed a pretty good compromise to me. Hope this helps.

Are they much slower than Schwalbe Marathon tyres? Is it really noticable?
Title: Re: Are winter tyres/spikes worth it for riding on frosty days
Post by: kwkirby01 on December 11, 2020, 04:02:04 pm
The tyres are heavier and definitely more sluggish, but I didn't ever time myself so can't say how much slower.
The reduction in speed did not put me off commuting to work so it couldn't have been that much slower.
Title: Re: Are winter tyres/spikes worth it for riding on frosty days
Post by: julk on December 11, 2020, 05:55:22 pm
The Schwalbe studded winter tyres have made riding in icy or frosty surfaces possible for me.
You can steer and brake with some confidence that you will not come off.
It is a bit like riding normally on a wet road - a bit more care needed.

They were useless in snow or rutted ice, maybe the longer spiked tyres would have worked for me there.
Julian.
Title: Re: Are winter tyres/spikes worth it for riding on frosty days
Post by: martinf on December 11, 2020, 06:30:10 pm
I use Nokian (now called Suomi) Hakkapeliitta w 240 tyres in the 26" x 1.9 size for icy conditions. AFAIK the 240 in the designation is the number of studs. I found these tyres excellent for grip on black ice, which, although rare, is the main ice hasard here in southern Brittany. "Blitzeis" is even rarer here, the tyres worked OK the one time I tried riding on that, but it was very difficult not to slip when putting a foot down. Snow isn't very common here either, the few times I have ridden on that the Hakkapeliitta tyres coped very well with light snow and rutted frozen snow, but tended to clog on moderate depths of fresh snow.

For commuting they were definitely slower than my summer tyres (Marathon Supremes) but significantly faster than my dedicated off-road tyres (Hutchinson On The Rocks, a lightweight knobbly tyre with Kevlar bead). About 23.5 km/h on the Supremes, 22 km/h on the Hakkapeliittas and 19.5 km/h on the Hutchinson On The Rocks.

I didn't notice much difference in speed between the Hakkapeliitta tyres on my 26" bike and the "ordinary" 2005 model Marathon tyres on the 650B bike I used for commuting on winter days with no ice risk. Current model Marathons probably have better rolling resistance than the 2005 model.

One big difference is that the studded tyres are noisy, the studs make a high-pitched crackling sound and the blocky nature of the tread means these tyres hum like other off-road tyres when riding fast on tarmac. 

Typically, there would be ice or icy patches on the morning commute, but no ice in the evening. The studs on the Hakkapeliitta tyres are tipped with tungsten carbide, so were more hard-wearing than the alternatives available when I bought them more than ten years ago.

There is information on various Suomi and Schwalbe studded tyres here:
https://www.peterwhitecycles.com/studdedtires.php

I am very wary when riding on ice here, even with studded tyres. When it gets slippery, the cars tend to slide about as very few are equipped with suitable tyres, and not many drivers know how to drive on snow and ice. That aspect might be less of a problem in places that usually experience icy conditions.
Title: Re: Are winter tyres/spikes worth it for riding on frosty days
Post by: PH on December 13, 2020, 09:42:52 am
My folder is currently shod in Marathon winter studded.  If possible I won't use them at all, but if I really have to ride when it's likely to be icy I'll use it with extreme caution.  I used to have a MTB with studs just for those occasions, but didn't want to keep a bike just for that and had no other use for it.  They don't guarantee you'll stay upright, they just give you a better chance.  I used to laugh at falling over, the older I get the more it hurts and the longer to recover, so I try not to take too many chances.
Title: Re: Are winter tyres/spikes worth it for riding on frosty days
Post by: steve216c on December 28, 2020, 06:03:04 pm
I got my Schwalbe Winter studded tyres ‘for Christmas’ and fitted them today. Took a 20km ride with my teenage son to begin to bed the studs in. We have had 2 snow showers in past 48 hours but at just above freezing nothing settled. But 14 day forecast will see sub-zero temperatures overnight so fros and ice more likely as we move into 2021.

My first impressions over my usual Marathon plus tyres is that they are loud like my MTB used to before I discovered slicks. My ride saw me on smooth asphalt, small cobblestone paving and some concrete cast roads as well as paving slabs used on shared pavement/bike way.

Noise was bearable. Depending on surface it varies from wood fire crackling noise through deep fat frying noise or even the sound of riding over gravel. But not so loud that It disturbed.

Will try another 20km to finish bedding the spikes in tomorrow.
I’d thought about mounting them on my 28” derailleur bike so I could pick a steed each morning depending on weather. But given that derailleur sucks when snow is falling I reckoned the Rohloff is the right decision and not so sluggish that I won’t manage the 2x10mile commute if I don’t home office after Christmas holiday is over.

To compare, It did feel a little more sluggish at 5 bar vice the 6 of my Marathons, but ride time on 20km was only a minute longer than I’d have expected.
As for handling, no hard braking or cornering for first 40km so I took it easy. But if they allow me to ride through the winter staying upright then I think I’ll be happy to ‘suffer’ them.
Title: Re: Are winter tyres/spikes worth it for riding on frosty days
Post by: steve216c on January 11, 2021, 08:48:25 am
I'm back on my daily commute since last week- shod with the Schwalbe Winter tyres previously mentioned. These are the 120 stud tyres and not the 240 stud version.

Tyres are already over 200km used, so I passed the 'wearing in' phase- and all studs are still in place.

The weather in the last days would have likely put me off riding after my broken rib experience 15 months ago, but I have to say that these winter tyres do seem to be pretty effective for the conditions I have experienced so far.

My 16km commute involves a number of different surfaces/conditions and prior to winter tyres I had an approx 10% longer winter commuting route to avoid some of the more challenging conditions. But I've managed to keep to my preferred regular route made possible by these tyres. A win of around 10 minutes each way back to my life  ;D

My route involves around 3km on smooth tarmac bike paths (can prove slipperiest conditions on my route) and 3km bike paths with paving slabs and occasional cobble stones. About 6km is on the road with the regular traffic- with 4km on tarmac and 2km on concrete surfaces. 4km is a shortcut through the woods on compacted permeable surface with lose gravel on top for the most part. In the winter or on wetter days this can get muddy and slippery in places enough to make it unrideable on my 42-622 regular Schwalbe Marathons road tyres forcing a 10 minute detour on some busier roads to stay upright.

Since mounting the Schwalbe Winter tyres I have ridden in freezing, icy, frosty, snowy and wet conditions (all in the last 7 days!) on my shorter forest commute route.
The tarmac bike paths still prove the slipperiest. The tyres hold well, but where I have had to stop for traffic lights I need to be careful not to slip when I put my feet on the ground!
The tarmac and concrete road surfaces tend to be less slippery as they are treated by local council, and these are mostly perfectly rideable. Where ice has formed on puddles, these have been approached with caution, but the spike have proven their worth in not slipping even then. The cobble stones (often on crossing with major roads in Berlin) are more of a challenge. The winter tyres/spikes do provide better road holding, but I am still cautious as there still seems to be less grip than on the other surfaces.

As for the forest. This was my no-go when wet or in snow on old tyres. But on icy mornings where the ground has been hard, this part of route was not just rideable, but even fun! On a clearing where 4 paths meet, it was often too slippery to ride, but the spikes kept me up when I saw an MTB with offroad tyres struggling last week. And for the homebound commute, where surfaces were muddy and previously unrideable for my 28" road tyres, I could navigate that stretch without having to slow too much or get off and walk. A huge win for me, especially when I overtook some younger adults pushing their MTBs on same stretch  :o

Worth it? For me, yes. I haven't had deep snow (1cm max which melted same day) but the 120 spike tyres have given me the confidence to keep riding through the winter. If you live in an area with more snow, then knobbly MTB style with more spikes might be more appropriate, but for city/town slickers who are mostly on road, these 120 spike Marathon Winter get a big thumbs up from me. My commute is slightly more sluggish due to tyres, but only a couple of minutes longer on 16km vs same route on Marathon Plus. But still quicker than my bad weather route!

I have no experience of other brands of spikes. But German bike magazines rated the Nokian and Continental spikes slightly better. However the price point of the Schwalbe (approx GBP 20 a tyre) effectively gave me 3rd best performer at half the price of the competition. And they are really pretty good for my needs!

Although  I haven't lost any spike yet, I combined my tyre order with a bag of spare spikes and the tool needed to fit them for approx a fiver more. If I had to order those separately at a later date, the postage would have cost about the same as the extra spikes! I ordered from bike24.com who deliver to most countries if you cannot find locally.

Stay safe (and upright) in 2021  ::)
Title: Re: Are winter tyres/spikes worth it for riding on frosty days
Post by: energyman on January 11, 2021, 09:02:00 am
My dear wife has hidden my bike shed key untill the weather gets better.... nuff said.
Title: Re: Are winter tyres/spikes worth it for riding on frosty days
Post by: PH on January 11, 2021, 08:36:49 pm
My shiny studs are still to see action, there's only been three days when they'd have been needed and they've coincided with not needing to be anywhere.  I'd be quite happy to never need them, but there's a long way to go before I swap them back.
Title: Re: Are winter tyres/spikes worth it for riding on frosty days
Post by: steve216c on January 12, 2021, 09:19:57 am

As for the forest. This was my no-go when wet or in snow on old tyres. But on icy mornings where the ground has been hard, this part of route was not just rideable, but even fun! On a clearing where 4 paths meet, it was often too slippery to ride, but the spikes kept me up when I saw an MTB with offroad tyres struggling last week. And for the homebound commute, where surfaces were muddy and previously unrideable for my 28" road tyres, I could navigate that stretch without having to slow too much or get off and walk. A huge win for me, especially when I overtook some younger adults pushing their MTBs on same stretch  :o


Had my first noticeable slight slide/loss of grip in the forest on my commute to work with the spikes this morning. There was a lot of wet snow during the night and much of this had made the muddy stretches of my route even wetter and more muddy. I hit the mud on a downward incline at about 20km/h trusting in the spikes to keep me stable, but as the path started to climb I could feel the pull of the bike wanting to go another direction from where I was pointed. I was able to maintain enough traction, but I can say I have pushed to the limit of what I can expect these tyres to manage without quite losing control.
We are expecting  sub-zero conditions overnight the coming days which should at least freeze the mud and make it rideable with the spikes. Otherwise I think I am going to have to be a little more cautious riding on sodden ground despite my initial euphoria.
Title: Re: Are winter tyres/spikes worth it for riding on frosty days
Post by: brummie on January 12, 2021, 12:47:26 pm
I favour Continental Contact Winters for winter riding - Fine for most wintery conditions, BUT when ice is present Schwalbe Marathon Winter tyres keep me upright.
Title: Re: Are winter tyres/spikes worth it for riding on frosty days
Post by: mickeg on January 15, 2021, 12:26:07 am
I find that studs are very slow, I avoid using them if I think they are unnecessary.

My Nomad Mk II gets studs front and rear in winter.   I do not regularly run studs on my Lynskey, occasionally use that in winter too.

With studded tires, if there is very little ice, I run higher pressure, the studs are off to the side of the tire slightly and that seems to lift the studs off the pavement a bit.  But if conditions are quite icy or there is much snow, then I may run lower pressure so that the tire patch is wider, the studs seem to grip better.  If the snow is deeper than one or two cm, the snow can prevent the studs from contacting any underlying ice in which case you have to be careful. 

When I am not using studded tires, for my front tire I usually set pressure at about 65 to 75 percent of the pressure in my rear tire.  But if I have studs on, I might run the front at an even lower pressure to try to make sure that the studs can grip the ice better.

I have talked to commuters that did not want to pay the high cost of two studded tires, they bought one and only put it on the front tire.  They felt that the front was the most important wheel to have studs on.  I bought a used studded tire that I put on a spare wheel.  I can put that wheel with the studs on the front of the Lynskey if I suspect I might encounter rare occasional ice but there is not enough ice to require my Nomad that has two studded tires.  I have not tried it yet, but I think on some days I might feel more confident with studs on the front.
Title: Re: Are winter tyres/spikes worth it for riding on frosty days
Post by: steve216c on February 04, 2021, 05:02:23 pm
First up steep forest hill on a snowy morning a couple of weeks back- the rider in background messed up my solitary tracks going down just before I was ready to take me shot! In prior years before spikes I'd stopped even trying as there was never enough traction.

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50908798232_fe64654ffb_b.jpg)

On Wednesday I rode in on a 'river of ice' from several days of freeze, and it was raining hard making the surface very slippery under foot. I almost fell mounting and dismounting the bike to take picture it was so slippery. But on 2 wheels with spikes worked a treat to keep me upright- although I did have to drop my speed to avoid getting drawn into and along frozen ruts on the way. But the forest shortcut saves me a good 10 minutes on my commute and with the spikes I can take it on in all but the muddiest of conditions now.

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50908803507_706241f11e_b.jpg)

Not everything has been great on the spikes. They are not as puncture proof as my Schwalbe Marathon Plus tyres. I got my first puncture where the footpath had been gritted and a piece of flint broke into the rubber. Luckily just 3km from home- and I was able to walk home and fix it. Would have been worse had I been closer to work at 16km as the walk would not have been so pleasant.
Title: Re: Are winter tyres/spikes worth it for riding on frosty days
Post by: PH on February 04, 2021, 05:55:28 pm
great photos.
My studs are still unused, I'm still happy for them to stay that way.
A bit disappointing about the puncture, the times studs get used are the times you'd least want to stop and fix one.  Mine studded tyres are Marathon Plus, I hadn't given it any thought, I'd assumed they all were. 
Title: Re: Are winter tyres/spikes worth it for riding on frosty days
Post by: steve216c on February 04, 2021, 07:06:47 pm
Punctures are alway annoying, but I got it with only about 300km ridden, so practically brand new and only just run in. It was a sharp piece of flint, but it could have been a piece of glass it was so sharp. The Schwalbe web site does rate these lower on puncture protection. Apparently Kevlar k-guard woven into the rubber mix. Not as good as smart guard on the Winter marathon plus model. I had misinformed myself when looking into these tyres as i thought the only difference was the outer row of spikes on the marathon version. I now wish I’d noticed that the puncture protection was better on the marathon model too before hitting the purchase button. Oh well..

Even so, since mounting over Christmas, I have ridden more than 600km on the spikes where morning frost ice and snow would have otherwise forced me to leave the bike in the shed. And although not every day required spikes, they were not so bad just to ride on stretches where regular tyres would have been fine. There is a bit more resistance when riding, and noise from The spikes when on tarmac, but it isn’t so bad. 38km today on tarmac and only added around 10 minutes more than with my non spike tyres would have needed for same stretch.

Tonight we are awaiting a hard frost so I’ll hit the forest short cut where I hope the mud will have frozen again. The spikes help in mud but are better on frozen surfaces in my opinion.
Title: Re: Are winter tyres/spikes worth it for riding on frosty days
Post by: JimK on February 08, 2021, 07:16:59 am
that is wicked ice!
Title: Re: Are winter tyres/spikes worth it for riding on frosty days
Post by: Andre Jute on February 08, 2021, 12:35:39 pm
That ice looks more like a skating rink than a bicycle track.
Title: Re: Are winter tyres/spikes worth it for riding on frosty days
Post by: PH on February 11, 2021, 06:01:10 pm
Well the studs finally got used, had to go on several errands this morning and what snow/slush left from the last couple of days had frozen overnight and everything else had a thick frost.  I was half way into town and wondering if I'd needed them when dipping under a bridge on the river path they suddenly went silent, ah yes I remember what that means, the next sound is usually me hitting the deck, but this time sailed through without incident.   I wouldn't want to be riding them more than I have to, but it is a luxury to have the choice.
Title: Re: Are winter tyres/spikes worth it for riding on frosty days
Post by: steve216c on February 11, 2021, 06:11:56 pm
Glad the spikes paid off. We had a ton of snow and temperatures down to -17. I wimped out and worked from home all week. I am not too concerned about the ice but the snow is often heaped on the bike paths and the roads are narrower because of snow on the sides from the ploughs, so I have put off venturing anywhere last days.  The city street cleaners are gradually clearing bike paths and side roads so I am hoping that I can ride again next week. With spikes of course ::)
Title: Re: Are winter tyres/spikes worth it for riding on frosty days
Post by: martinf on February 12, 2021, 08:53:15 am
My studded tyres got used yesterday, in a mild blizzard with about 4 cm of lying snow, on top of ice.

Not many cars about, so every time I saw one I pulled well off the road and waited till it was gone. I saw one that had slid into the ditch.

The Nokian tyres worked well in these conditions.
Title: Re: Are winter tyres/spikes worth it for riding on frosty days
Post by: steve216c on February 12, 2021, 01:27:52 pm
My studded tyres got used yesterday, in a mild blizzard with about 4 cm of lying snow, on top of ice.

Not many cars about, so every time I saw one I pulled well off the road and waited till it was gone. I saw one that had slid into the ditch.

The Nokian tyres worked well in these conditions.

Suomi/Nokian tend to win against other tyres in the German bike spike tyre tests. But the best tyres in the world on the best bike in the world are not going to save you from a Ford transit pirouetting uncontrolled towards you on an icy incline.  Pulling to the side (safely and under full control with those tyres) is probably the smartest move in such circumstances.

I'm glad that I'm forced by German law to put winter tyres on my car for the cold season. My older brother (who always knows best) refused to believe me that they made a difference until one UK visit where he couldn't cope with a sleeping policeman on a snowy icy slope near his house in Surrey which took several attempts to overcome, where me following behind in my older and less fancy car of half the horsepower drove effortlessly without sliding over the same obstacle after he'd finished polishing the ice in front of me. Someone demolished his fence after overdoing it on same bump later the same day  ;D

He eventually went on a winter break to Switzerland and prior to departure purchased a set of all season tyres to replace the normal tyres he'd had. And he finally admitted it was not just marketing hype.

I have to say, I was a bike tyre spike sceptic till this winter when I bought some. I'm a true convert now. Staying upright and being able to cycle through the winter is so much better than public transport or driving to work  8)

https://www.radfahren.de/test-teile/spikereifen-test/ (https://www.radfahren.de/test-teile/spikereifen-test/)

Title: Re: Are winter tyres/spikes worth it for riding on frosty days
Post by: leftpoole on February 13, 2021, 10:05:11 am
Obviously 'only an opinion', but the best thing to do in Winter is stay indoors nice and warm.... 8) 8) 8)
Title: Re: Are winter tyres/spikes worth it for riding on frosty days
Post by: steve216c on February 15, 2021, 04:43:09 pm
I haven't braved the elements other than to shovel snow to keep my driveway and pavement responsibilities taken care of the past week. I didn't have to work today, but I was hoping to go into the office tomorrow. So with daytime temperature warmed to around zero point I decided to try part of my commute to get an idea if it was worth attempting tomorrow.

The problem I faced was that many ways were partially clear, but much of my route on the busiest roads had bike paths only partially cleared and blocked sporadically with heaps of snow often blocking my way. And those roads are too unsafe to ride on the road with the motor traffic. On the side streets some roads were OK, but I also relied on riding in the grooves left by cars or on the pavements that had been cleared. Left and right of the car snow groves were not easy even with spikes as surfaces were more snowy and lose rather than icy.

My forest short cut still had around 6 cm of snow, not compacted enough to make a good surface to ride on. I rode a couple of hundred meters in to the forest and turned around as it was not so easy. My alternate road route was not much fun either where I would have cars coming up behind and wanting to overtake, and it wasn't easy to ride anywhere except on the tyre tracks and pulling over was a challenge to let them pass.

Basically, I got half way to work with only half the way actually rideable with ease. The rest needed concentration and steady nerves and at a slower pace meaning I never truly warmed up. So I will home office again tomorrow, and hope that the Berlin thaw makes enough difference to try again on Wednesday or Thursday.

1) My commuting shortcut through Grünewald woods. Snow too powdery to get decent grip with my Schwalbe Winter spikes  :-\

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50945774778_d08c06436d_b.jpg)

2) The alternative 'bad weather' road route along service road parallel to Heerstrasse. Bikes are not permitted on main road behind the hedge- which is 5 lane contraflow and otherwise clear of snow/ice  >:( The joys of being a 2nd class road user...

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50946467446_caf21b19ea_b.jpg)

3) I gave up on that service road near Olympic stadium junction. The funny thing is that despite the stadium not being allowed to host fans, the front of stadium and the carpark had all been cleared. The roads to/from the stadium were not much better than the 2nd picture.  ???

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50946466521_63166e3b0f_b.jpg)

I did run into a couple of other bike nuts on my ride. A 29er rider with Nokian spikes had less problem with the surfaces, but was suffering with derailleur gears getting clogged with snow/ice making changing a challenge. I can remember such fun on my other 2 bikes in winter before I bought the Winora with Rohloff in the photos. My Rohloff with Chainglider was mostly snow/ice free even after a 22km ride. No gear change issues to report.

If there were no other traffic to content with, you could feasibly ride through these elements with the spikes I have, as they kept my upright and I didn't feel like there was much loss of control, but it wasn't so much fun constantly adjusting for ever changing road surface conditions. Everything should have completely thawed by the weekend where my commuting challenge will be more just on overnight frost and ice- and where my spikes will be in the element.
 
Title: Re: Are winter tyres/spikes worth it for riding on frosty days
Post by: PH on March 11, 2021, 11:20:48 am
Well, we're into March and the sun is shining  8)
Is it safe to remove the spikeys yet?  In the UK, I'm guessing so, I'll probably do so this weekend and take the folder for a spin. 
I've used the spikes for a grand total of 11 miles.  In practical terms, quite clearly not worth it, but the reassurance of knowing there was a spiked up bike ready to go whenever needed was worthwhile and who knows, the usage may have been considerably different.  Unless I have a use for the folder that prevents it, I'll be fitting them again next Winter, at the current rate of wear they ought to last till 3380  ???
Title: Re: Are winter tyres/spikes worth it for riding on frosty days
Post by: martinf on March 11, 2021, 12:31:43 pm
I've taken my Hakkapeliitta tyres off. No very cold weather is forecast for the next couple of weeks, and is very unlikely here after that.

Mine have done about 900 kms in all, about 90 kms this winter, so less than 100 kms a year on average.

Are they worth it?

I reckon yes when I was working, probably not in retirement as I can generally postpone journeys if conditions are bad.

But as I already have them, it is nice to have the option of reasonably safe travel even with ice/snow about.
Title: Re: Are winter tyres/spikes worth it for riding on frosty days
Post by: steve216c on March 22, 2021, 10:15:04 am
Before the week is out I'm going to hit 1600km/1000 miles on these spikes I mounted last week of 2020. Apart from a couple of weeks where cycling was too treacherous even with spikes, I've managed to commute right through most of the winter where regular tyres would have probably let me down or at very least taken the fun out the rides.

In Berlin, we tend to be 2 to 3 weeks behind on spring weather and have had frost most mornings including today. We even had a light snow covering on Friday last. Looking at the longer range forecast, I will probably want to keep the spikes on for at least the next 14 days to avoid slipping on icy patches on my morning commute. But I am also really looking forward to returning to my regular Marathon Plus and the reduced rolling resistance and noise over the spikes.

My rolling summary report on these Schwalbe Winter tyres (the cheapest spike option I found) is this:

1) If you plan to ride through the winter in FROSTY or ICY conditions, spikes are a great recommendation. There is a limit to their effectiveness in snow- but a noticeable safety benefit for those who want to ride rather than leave bike in the shed during the winter and not to feel caught out if the weather changes unexpectedly

2) I've manage to maintain/increase fitness levels on my daily commute as I've pulled my average speed up to almost what it was prior to fitting spikes- despite the increased drag and road noise. With regular tyres I would not have been able to ride safely much of the last 3 months and would not have got the exercise otherwise.

3) I can recommend anyone buying spiked tyres to purchase some spare studs and fitting tool (cost approx EUR 9 /GBP 7.50 for Schwalbe tool and 50 tungsten replacements). I've lost 3 studs in the last 3 months, and refitting any lost studs is a 2 minute job- where the first minute involves unlocking the shed to get the tool out and less than 60 seconds needed to refit

4) You get used to the noise of spikes. The fizzing/fat frying audible accompaniment generated when riding on spikes was disturbing at first. But now I hardly notice it. It is comparable to the difference in noise for those who have ridden MTB tyres and switch to e.g. Big Apples. You'll be so used to the noise that you only notice how quiet everything is when you are NOT riding on the former and notice how the latter are 'silent' in comparison. In fact, when I ride together side by side with my son, his MTB tyre droning drowns out my spike noise.

5) Although my experience has been positive- I really am looking forward to the lower resistance of my regular tyres I hope to refit in the coming 2 or 3 weeks once conditions look stable enough. But I will definitely store these winter tyres safely so I can remount and ride safely in future winters.

6) Do your homework if you plan to buy such tyres. I had a puncture just short time after fitting the brand new tyres. The puncture guard level can be different even on otherwise similar looking tyres. Schwalbe Winter and Schwalbe Marathon Winter look almost identical except for number of spikes- but the puncture protection in the latter is way better than the former- as I learnt the hard way.

I also considered fitting one of my 2 spare bikes with winter tyres instead of the Rohloff. However, an IGH has an advantage over derailleur in snow and ice which can clog and jump in snow/ice/mud. A Rohloff powered steed with its lower general maintenance levels and high reliability is perhaps a better winter bike than using one of my spare bikes for the winter conditions. I am glad I rode my best bike through the winter knowing those 14 gears would not let me down whatever the weather.

Now bring on the sunshine  ;D 8)

Title: Re: Are winter tyres/spikes worth it for riding on frosty days
Post by: Clive. on April 08, 2021, 12:37:32 pm
I enjoyed seeing your photos Steve - I lived just off Heerstrasse by Olympia Stadion as a child (army brat) in about 1970, and remember sledging in the Grunewald. The Heerstrasse, with (variable) contraflow, made an impression on me - I can see a gantry with a green tick/red cross for each lane in your photo. I could never work out how they changed direction on the lanes, but now recognise that each lane must have closed for a while before opening in the reverse direction!
Title: Re: Are winter tyres/spikes worth it for riding on frosty days
Post by: steve216c on November 17, 2021, 09:12:31 am
It has been too mild for too long  :o but I keep an eye on the weather forecast ready to mount my winter spikes for the inevitable frosty mornings common at this time of year.
As I mentioned in this thread and from my experiences last winter, adding spikes allowed me to ride relatively safely in conditions no sane cyclist without spikes ought to attempt.

Riding spikes increases rolling friction though. For me that adds an estimated 3-5 minutes to my daily commute. A small cost compared to the alternative of public transport or clogging up the road with my car- both of which take about same time door to door.

I have a pair of spiked Schwalbe Winter tyres, but I am wondering how much of a compromise it would be if I just fitted the front wheel with spikes to cut the overall spike friction by a fraction, but to ensure increase road holding when steering on frozen or muddy bike paths when the conditions are variable (e.g. frosty start, but mild later).
I'm going from the assumption that the front wheel is more critical on keeping me upright than the role the back wheel takes. Of course if a hard winter sets in, I would mount both tyres with spikes.

Anyone with experience or thoughts of riding just on one spiked tyre?

cheers
Steve

Title: Re: Are winter tyres/spikes worth it for riding on frosty days
Post by: martinf on November 17, 2021, 02:54:02 pm
I have a pair of spiked Schwalbe Winter tyres, but I am wondering how much of a compromise it would be if I just fitted the front wheel with spikes to cut the overall spike friction by a fraction, but to ensure increase road holding when steering on frozen or muddy bike paths when the conditions are variable (e.g. frosty start, but mild later).

I've never bothered, not even when I had a commute of 22 km each way. But I always had a choice of bikes, one with studded tyres and the others with normal tyres. If I reckoned there was a risk of ice I took the bike with studs, otherwise one without.

I reckoned it was better to take a few minutes extra rather than risk a fall.
Title: Re: Are winter tyres/spikes worth it for riding on frosty days
Post by: John Saxby on November 17, 2021, 03:37:37 pm
Hi Steve,

I don't ride on our icy winter roads here in Eastern Ontario, but by my reckoning, you'd need as much traction as you can get on both the steering wheel and the driving wheel.

Envy you the option of riding over the winter.  In the past two decades-plus, we've had more and more icy conditions on roads and paths. Our standard-issue winter-weather pattern is now snow-thaw-freeze, covering maybe a week. When I first came to Ottawa to live nearly 45 years ago (yikes!!), we could reliably expect long-ish spells of clear cold weather, with highs of -15 and lows of -30 or lower.  Not any more - can't recall when we last had a nighttime low of -30. The competitive cross-country season has moved further north up the Ottawa. In mid-February a couple of years ago, in the PPE (Pre-Pandemic Era), Canada held its national X-country ski championships in the Gatineau Park across the river, where there are 200-plus kms of trails.  It was a disaster: only the handful of international-level elite skiers could handle the ice.

Safe riding, John.
Title: Re: Are winter tyres/spikes worth it for riding on frosty days
Post by: mickeg on November 17, 2021, 03:55:56 pm
...
Anyone with experience or thoughts of riding just on one spiked tyre?

cheers
Steve

I have nothing to add to my previous comment (from above on page one):

...
My Nomad Mk II gets studs front and rear in winter.   I do not regularly run studs on my Lynskey, occasionally use that in winter too.
...
I have talked to commuters that did not want to pay the high cost of two studded tires, they bought one and only put it on the front tire.  They felt that the front was the most important wheel to have studs on.  I bought a used studded tire that I put on a spare wheel.  I can put that wheel with the studs on the front of the Lynskey if I suspect I might encounter rare occasional ice but there is not enough ice to require my Nomad that has two studded tires.  I have not tried it yet, but I think on some days I might feel more confident with studs on the front.

Since I wrote that, I have not tried studs on only one wheel, the conditions were never such that I felt that it was appropriate. 

But, I still have that one front wheel with a studded tire on it, so I might try that sometime this winter if I don't want to use studs on both front and rear, but would like to have an extra measure of safety just in case I encounter a few ice patches.

To clarify some of what I said here, my Nomad Mk II uses 26 inch wheels, my Lynskey is 700c, thus the wheels are not interchangeable between the two.  I have Schwalbe Marathon Winters on the Nomad Mk II, the wheel for my Lynskey has a Nokian W106, 37mm wide.
Title: Re: Are winter tyres/spikes worth it for riding on frosty days
Post by: PH on November 17, 2021, 08:48:20 pm
Anyone with experience or thoughts of riding just on one spiked tyre?
Not me, neither do I expect to gain any such experience.
I've always considered the difference between losing traction on the front or rear wasn't so much the likelihood but the chance of recovery.  Those few times I've been down on ice, there's been no chance of recovery, upright to painful in less time than it takes me to process what's happening.
Title: Re: Are winter tyres/spikes worth it for riding on frosty days
Post by: steve216c on November 18, 2021, 08:47:26 am
I trawled the interweb and found a few brave souls who reported that the front wheel only option is a fair compromise to at least keep you upright for many slippery circumstances.

I have a spare dynohub wheel which I'll mount the front spike tyre to at the weekend. Next week we are expecting some frosty mornings, so I can see how a single spiked tyre rides. I can always mount the rear should I find it necessary. With just the front wheel, and because I have a spare, it is not a huge chore to swap the wheels over at short notice and have the appropriate tyre mounded for the expected conditions whatever they might be.

I'll report back my findings.

During my search I found this interesting prototype https://www.toxel.com/tech/2012/12/08/bicycle-tire-spikes/ (https://www.toxel.com/tech/2012/12/08/bicycle-tire-spikes/). Further research looks like they never found funds to bring the product to the market. But I do like the idea as an alternative one could wear on the tyre on a frost morning, and remove before riding home when the weather has improved.

Title: Re: Are winter tyres/spikes worth it for riding on frosty days
Post by: mickeg on November 18, 2021, 10:46:05 am
I did not mention this before, but my some of my bike routes have very few hills.  If I anticipated much ice, I would want studs on both front and rear, on the rear for uphill traction.

Do you have hills on your commute that could be icy?
Title: Re: Are winter tyres/spikes worth it for riding on frosty days
Post by: brummie on November 18, 2021, 05:48:51 pm
It can be just as easy to fall off if you lose traction with the rear wheel in icy conditions - most likely when cornering / leaning the bike or honking out of the saddle. I always fit front and rear winter tyres when needed.
Title: Re: Are winter tyres/spikes worth it for riding on frosty days
Post by: steve216c on November 20, 2021, 12:03:09 pm
Do you have hills on your commute that could be icy?

Since my office moved earlier this year, my new commute is reasonably flat with no steep inclines and on reasonable road and paved bike paths. My old office involved a couple of steep hills in each direction including one unpaved hill where the extra traction on the rear was helpful last winter.

There are a couple of exposed bridges that do get icy, but these are at least level and straight or with minimal incline