Thorn Cycles Forum
Community => Rohloff Internal Hub Gears => Topic started by: KvBCycles on August 16, 2020, 03:49:15 pm
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Afternoon guys, looking for advice please.
This morning a had a rear wheel puncture and while I was waiting for the patch to set I did some cleaning and wiping of the transmission, including the Rohloff hub and the cable box which was oily, and I thought nothing of it.
However, a few hours later I noticed that the back of the cable box appeared to be wet again and upon closer inspection, it does seem to be oil...I've attached a picture for you to see for yourself, but this looks to me to be an oil leak from the hub...am I right and should I be concerned, not only about the leak but where the leak is from?
Thank you.
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Rohloffs naturally sweat oil through the axle of the hub, this is actually OK and not a cause for concern provided that you are doing your re-oiling procedure in a timely manner. So, if it looks like your quick release got oily and some oil leaked out there to surrounding areas like the top of the cable box, just clean it off.
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In a similar vein
Due to lockdown here in Victoria OZ we are only permitted an hour a day for exercise and it must take place within a 5km radius of home.
So as it is quite flat around my home have been riding fixed for the last six weeks or so.
However I needed to carry some stuff the other day so I got the Mercury out of the shed as it has a pannier and a bar bag.
The drain plug was facing downward when I left the bike and there was oil leakage from the plug.
I am pretty sure that I used a new plug with the stuff on the threads at the last oil change.
I am not worried about insufficient oil in the hub but has anyone else experienced this?
Mike
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Australian Govt officials seem to have lost their minds. Who care how far and for how long you go on a solitary ride, as long as you stay away from kissing strangers.
Here where I live they are completely ignoring our more sensible (though some of the details makes one scratch their head) suggestions. Especially people under 30 or so. Not sure how I feel about it all, but I guess your's Mike is not quite the country that Crocodile Dundee made it out to be. I just hope you can confirm that you all still carry large knives. ;)
I had the choice to immigrate to the US or to Australia once. The USA was under my own power, but to Sidney it had to be under my fathers papers and he decided to move to Hawaii.
My Rohloff does not sweat nor leak oil in any way, but it is from 2011 and I believe they changed the seals a few years later, where such is normal and of no concern. From what I know, it is not meant to run in an oil bath, just simply to coat the gears with a very light amount.
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Amplification- the 5km bubble also restricts the area in which one may shop.
They are trying to keep people close to home and not travel across town to potentially infect people there.
Just like in your country the polis frown on people carrying knives of any size now.
Crocodile Dundee was almost 40 years ago!
Mike
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"Knives", Pavel? I think it was, "Walk softly, and carry a big shtick." ;)
On the self-oiling question: I have a bit of seepage around the axle on the drive side. No sweat,tho'.
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I think that in addressing the would be mugger Dundee replied something along the lines of
That's not a knife this is a knife and produced an item with a very large blade.
Mike
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As a former Territorian I rarely saw anyone carrying a knife similar to Mick Dundee’s. What continues to be carried in many a ute in The NT is a quite different matter entirely. Apart from that, many male ute drivers wear precious little when driving during the wet season. An encounter with either the former or latter prospect is one not to be considered lightly!
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Did I hear someone call me?
Listening to the forum on my treadmill can be very disorienting...
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Rohloffs naturally sweat oil through the axle of the hub, this is actually OK and not a cause for concern provided that you are doing your re-oiling procedure in a timely manner. So, if it looks like your quick release got oily and some oil leaked out there to surrounding areas like the top of the cable box, just clean it off.
OK great thank you for the advice. I'd just done the 3rd oil change (15000km) but I'll keep it clean etc etc.
Had to laugh at the direction this thread took...
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I think that in addressing the would be mugger Dundee replied something along the lines of
That's not a knife this is a knife and produced an item with a very large blade.
Mike
That was one memorable movie line! But I'm quite sure it was just yesterday. :D
I wonder if we could translate that bit of comedy to Rohloff hubs, and their impressive size? A bit of oil should be seen as a mileage status symbol, I feel.
An overly clean bike strikes me as a bike not properly adventuring. A sort of Rohloff abuse, if you will.
Am I correct that Rohloff did change the seals a few years back? I seem to think it was so that the cranks would not spin forward, as some new owners criticized the hub for doing, if the bike was pushed. But I also think I recall that there was not such a fuss and the same need to change the oil after a river crossing, if the hub got wet, but not much submerged. But I'm not certain of any of that.
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The Crocodile Dundee film was released on 24 April 1986, i.e. 34 years ago!
Mike
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KvB - I watch your YouTube videos sometimes. Nice job!
I also have a Nomad Mk2. Purchased last year and cycled to Budapest (and back) from the Channel Islands during Summer 2019. I've just performed an oil change on my (and my wife's Rohloff). Based on my research beforehand, the hub has a tendency to sweat/leak more if you refill the hub with the full 25ml of replacement oil. Not sure if this is the case for you? The general consensus (and the Thorn Owner Guide) seems to suggest to add a much lower level of oil (as little as 8ml) as the hub never fully drains when you wash it out with cleaning oil.
Happy travelling!
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I'm so glad I don't have the leaky QR hub. Mine has 17,000 miles and actually lost less fluid the last period. 37 to 39 ml comes out, cleaner fluid and dirty oil.
I let the change go 4,200 and 3,900 miles on my tours. I did carry the oil kit anyway.
I always make sure the plug is up when parked, necessary or not. I have reused them too.
I always put in a full 25 ml. Doesn't seem to quiet it at all. LOL.
I didn't notice any leaks after flights either. Maybe the box was standing right side up. I have the spare seals and tools, still unused.
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GamblerGord ... what year did you buy your Rohloff? I'm still wondering if the older models leaked less, due to seal differences.
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2014. #1943xx.
I think it was broke in at 16,000 miles. LOL. Starting to coast better.
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I always make sure the plug is up when parked, necessary or not. I have reused them too.
I have started doing that too.
Mike
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Mine has recently stopped leaking oil, but been marking its territory on my bike shed floor regularly which I later also identified as coming through the gear shift cabling area which is now 'well lubed' on the hub side. I had wondered if it were through the quick release, but after drying all with a rag and checking daily, the gear area seems to oil-up before the QR gets wet. My bike was purchased second hand a year ago, and where I did an oil change a month after purchase, which is when I first began to notice.
Initially I could not see where the drops were coming from, and put some masking tape over the oil change plug to see if that was the source. This proved to stay dry, and the drops continued to appear overnight but only if I had ridden the bike. If it had been standing, the drips either stopped or were less noticeable.
Having trawled the net for myself, I found several English and German sources saying that drips are not unusual not a huge concern and could be from the 'overfill' from the recommended oil change and partially due to air locks that might have got in when draining and refilling. As the hub can run 'dry' for up to 5000km I am not too concerned. It recently stopped dripping, and I will do the 5000km 1 year oil change in 2 weeks- and plan to change the paper seals on the internal gear element along with cabling when I do so. I am hoping I can establish if the seal is the source of the leak. The seals themselves come with the gear cable kit but can also be purchased seperately. What I can say is that my hub is running more smoothly than when I purchased the bike a year ago- and does not seem to have suffered as a result. When I drain the old oil in a couple of weeks, I'll try to estimate how much is remaining. I'd used one of the one time flush and oil kits on the change last year, so have a pretty good idea of how much went in initially.
Until I actually do the change, I cannot confirm 100% my theory of my oil 'leak' source- but it does seem to match other on subject posts I have found. I'll be a little wiser by mid November after a few km following my servicing.
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Rohloffs naturally sweat oil through the axle of the hub, this is actually OK and not a cause for concern provided that you are doing your re-oiling procedure in a timely manner. So, if it looks like your quick release got oily and some oil leaked out there to surrounding areas like the top of the cable box, just clean it off.
If you don’t already do so, Re- greasing inside the ex box regularly (every 500k) i,a,W Rohloff maintenance guide might help as I believe is meant to act as a bit of a seal around the axle.
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As per my previous post, I mentioned I would check how much oil it looked like I'd lost when I did my change a couple of weeks back presumably through my leaky hub.
On last year's oil change I put the full 25ml from an oil change set in the hub. After adding 25ml flushing oil a couple of weeks back, I managed to drain just over 40ml back out. So I reckon I must have lost around 8ml over 11 months/5200km ridden. To be honest, the oil patch on the shed floor looked like more, I guess 8ml dripped the right (or wrong) way can look like more than it really was. Although there was oil all in the cable bellow and leaking from there, there was also oil in my QR hub too.
During my service, I also changed the internal hub gear cable which had become frayed. The Rohloff set included 2 paper gaskets. During the dismantling I initially thought that the larger paper must have disintegrated as I was convinced it wasn't there. Having everything opened up, I decided to give the inners a clean up before installing the new cable and gaskets. On installing the new gaskets and cable I made a mistake and needed to open it all up again to repeat the process correctly. Pulling out the new gasket I found the old gasket (the one I though was not there) had stuck to the new one. Basically the old one had become an oily colour and looked like oiled metal and not paper. So I removed and refitted just with new gaskets.
I'm coming up to 400km since the oil change, and no signs of dripping oil yet. It way well have been cured by gasket replacement. Having bought my bike second hand, I have no idea if the gaskets had ever been changed since leaving the factory several years ago. I suspect it might have cured my oil leak. If you still have an oil leak, you might want to try replacing the internal hub gear mech cables if that is the kind you have- just to see if new gaskets make a difference.
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That doesn't sound like a serious oil loss. In fact, no offence, but it doesn't sound like an oil loss at all, except to a relatively new Rohloff owner. I had an "Oh Christ!" reaction in my few months of Rohloff ownership when I found a pool of oil under the bike -- which turned out on tasting to be water from condensation. As much oil as you can't account for at the change probably just misted out, a normal, if unsettling to new owners, Rohloff operation.
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That doesn't sound like a serious oil loss. In fact, no offence, but it doesn't sound like an oil loss at all, except to a relatively new Rohloff owner. I had an "Oh Christ!" reaction in my few months of Rohloff ownership when I found a pool of oil under the bike -- which turned out on tasting to be water from condensation. As much oil as you can't account for at the change probably just misted out, a normal, if unsettling to new owners, Rohloff operation.
my loss based on patch size from the shed floor was far less than I expected in reality. Luckily my bike is still dry since the gasket change, suggesting this was how those meagre 8ml found their egress.
On another note, I mentioned to a colleague of mine about having bought the party pack size hub oil, who then mentioned he'd not had his Rohloff oil changed in way over 10,000km and at least 4 years and possibly as long as 6 years- since his daughter borrowed it for a university bike. I offered to do the oil change for him, and after putting in 25ml of flushing oil drew just under 30ml back out of pretty dirty and almost jet black looking oil. He'd not mentioned an oil leak- but had precious little in the hub given what we could drain. Even the drain plug was sticky rather than oily when I removed it.
Although he'd not noticed any drag in the hub riding 10km to my place, he did let me know that everything seemed much 'lighter' in operation after his return home ride.
Now he knows I bought the party pack oil size, he has dutifully promised to do this annually donating EUR 10 each time towards the costs I incurred going for the 1000ml bottle size rather than the one time sets or the EUR 25 he was charged by the bike shop for doing it for him. That suits me fine as a 40 year supply of oil changes for my single hub is probably a bit more than I will ever need- although I am tempted to keep my eyes open for future Rohloff powered bike(s) for when my wife turns 50 or kids come of age, which might use it up a tad quicker if I do.
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Noticed the same collection of Rohloff oil seepage on the underside of the external shifter box here as result of noticing the small droplet pool of oil on the rubber mat underneath - this was roughly 6-8 weeks ago here in the UK. Probably the worst I have seen it since owning the bike as in the past was usually just isolated to needing a wipe of the ex-box with a rag. Definitely Rohloff oil by the distinct smell but as many experienced users here and elsewhere put to ease, nothing to worry about. My QR skewer is usually covered with a light coating of oil almost always whenever removed. No notice of oil leak since wiping stuff up and upon a short research I think I read someplace can be due to breathing during seasonal weather shifts, sort if ties into the timeline so might be true.
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I agree with all that Andre says. Too many people get far too much angst about a few drops of oil from the Rohloff. Usually it comes from the overfilling of putting a full 25mls in the hub.
Cheers, Pete
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I agree with all that Andre says. Too many people get far too much angst about a few drops of oil from the Rohloff. Usually it comes from the overfilling of putting a full 25mls in the hub.
I understand why it happens, Pete. The Rohloff is an expensive component, so newbies feel they should mind their p's and q's, whereas we've been hardened by years of experience of -- very little going wrong, and it always being fixable. But if you think back to when we were early adopters -- the makers of one of my bikes, Utopia, was the first adopter of the Rohloff for touring bikes, and Thorn was the first outside Germany -- you'll remember that there was a netsite for mud racers in Germany, which was conducted in German, useless to most of us, and nothing else. In fact, other cyclists thought Utopia and Thorn were crazy to offer the Rohloff on touring bikes of all things. To this day the Thorn netsite and forum together still make up the most reliable source of information on the Rohloff as a touring gearbox, and in English too. The grass isn't greener on the other side of any fence we can reach. It doesn't surprise me at all that a worried newbie will find his way here.
Hey, when I first heard of paper seals and "misting out" in relation to the Rohloff, I had a sinking feeling...
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One day on tour in Tasmania after I had been using the Rohloff for just under 12 months, I suddenly had my attention drawn to several large drops of oil that had appeared under it one morning while we were stopped at a cafe having just returned on the ferry from Maria Island. I had that sinking feeling :( :(. But, after consultation with this forum, my concerns were relieved.
Funny to hear of people measuring their oil clean volumes. I put in 25ml of cleaner oil and I am lucky if I get 30mls flushed out. I only fill with 15mls, so should never expect to get more than 45mls at max. Some always seeps out, that is how the Rohloff ensures that dirt does not get IN.
Cheers, Pete
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Andy Blance addresses this topic in detail in his 'Living with a Rohloff Hub' document http://www.sjscycles.com/thornpdf/ThornLivingWithARohloff.pdf. Specifically the 'Oil leaks' section on page 32. It addresses most of the questions raised in this thread.