Thorn Cycles Forum

Technical => Wheels, Tyres and Brakes => Topic started by: trailplanner on April 25, 2020, 11:50:02 am

Title: Experience of fettling a Thorn Audax Mk4 with tubeless tyres
Post by: trailplanner on April 25, 2020, 11:50:02 am
Very please with my new Thorn Audax Mk4, especially with tubeless tyres.  The effort is worthwhile, the bike is very comfortable and fast!

https://wp.me/p5oyVA-1bd

How are other forum members getting on? Particularly any tips I have missed fitting G-One, Pro-Ones to DT Swiss rims?
Title: Re: Experience of fettling a Thorn Audax Mk4 with tubeless tyres
Post by: geocycle on April 25, 2020, 12:08:57 pm
Very nice blog on the audax. Looks a lovely build. I’m also not quite sure why thorn fit tubes to tubeless tyres, belt and braces I suppose. Glad you are getting on well with the Schwalbe pro ones.
Title: Re: Experience of fettling a Thorn Audax Mk4 with tubeless tyres
Post by: PH on April 25, 2020, 07:43:11 pm
Nice write up, plenty of info without being too wordy.  I'm likely to return and look at some of your other articles. 
Everyone I know who's gone tubeless tells me how good it is, but I don't have any suitable wheels and barring accidents I'm not likely to need any in the foreseeable future, so I'll just have to look on with envy.  I watched a rider on our CTC group fix a tubeless puncture with a worm thing, I was surprised how easy it looked abd took the same time as swapping a tube, not something to be scared of.
Your two bikes do give you a great spread, IMO just the right level of overlap, where you could use one for most of what the other does, while it's still obvious which would be better for a particular ride.
I hope you have some protective tape under where your bags attach, it's tough paint but it isn't immune from rubbing.  I used a little top tube bag on for a couple of thousand miles and it's worn the gloss off, I should have known better.
Title: Re: Experience of fettling a Thorn Audax Mk4 with tubeless tyres
Post by: leftpoole on April 26, 2020, 10:15:16 am
I have a pair of wheels by DT Swiss which are for Tubeless tyres.
No use worrying about because I will always use tubes until proper tubeless tyres are available. The ones now have to be filled with that Slime type stuff in case of punctures, which is supposed to self seal. What is the point? If tyres are correctly pumped up rock hard, then punctures should very rarely occur!
John
Title: Re: Experience of fettling a Thorn Audax Mk4 with tubeless tyres
Post by: PH on April 26, 2020, 11:37:54 am
If tyres are correctly pumped up rock hard, then punctures should very rarely occur! John
That's old skool John.  The point is - lower pressure increases comfort with no loss of speed, and increased comfort is seen by some as a good thing.
If you, like me, are happy enough without, then maybe it has no point for us.  But are you not curious to try?
Title: Re: Experience of fettling a Thorn Audax Mk4 with tubeless tyres
Post by: leftpoole on April 27, 2020, 12:10:50 pm
I am 70 in a minute or two, in actual fact, July.
I know as much about tyres and pressures that nobody will come up with recycled ideas about tyres that will dissuade me from what is the best!
Comfort? On a bicycle? Brooks saddles of course.
All cycle related information is recycled year after year after generation. It all comes round again, look at the instances of drop bars after years of that MTB stuff!
Me? Always drop bars except my Raven Sport Tour which I persist in tweaking weekly, that means altering in tiny detail the actual relationship of the bars which are those 'special' Thorn risers recycled from,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
Happy days,
John
I hope all are well and coping. Maximum 20 miles is considered local in my countryside area.
Title: Re: Experience of fettling a Thorn Audax Mk4 with tubeless tyres
Post by: PH on April 27, 2020, 01:36:02 pm
I know as much about tyres and pressures that nobody will come up with recycled ideas about tyres that will dissuade me from what is the best!
It's good you're happy and I don't think anyone is trying to persuade you of anything. 
I am considerably jealous, I wish I knew it all. 
Title: Re: Experience of fettling a Thorn Audax Mk4 with tubeless tyres
Post by: leftpoole on April 28, 2020, 11:42:45 am
I know as much about tyres and pressures that nobody will come up with recycled ideas about tyres that will dissuade me from what is the best!
It's good you're happy and I don't think anyone is trying to persuade you of anything. 
I am considerably jealous, I wish I knew it all.

Sarcasm is a form of wit apparently.
But it is the lowest form.
John
Title: Re: Experience of fettling a Thorn Audax Mk4 with tubeless tyres
Post by: trailplanner on April 28, 2020, 12:11:08 pm
Worm things? I'll have to google that.  I am guessing similar to the method used on tubeless motorcycle tyres, which I am familiar with.  But if you lose too much pressure it will be a devil to reinflate if the beads have popped off.

If I were to do a multi-day super lightweight trip I'd fit inner tubes and perhaps wear out the collection of Marathon Supremes I have from the 1990s that are quite possible to old now to use.  The tubeless Pro-One's and G-One's ride so well they increase the pleasure of cycling in my view. The bike just glides along and I have to look twice at the Garmin to see I am going faster than expected.  My Strava times seem to confirm that, or maybe I am getting my fitness back.

Title: Re: Experience of fettling a Thorn Audax Mk4 with tubeless tyres
Post by: PH on April 28, 2020, 07:47:17 pm
Sarcasm is a form of wit apparently.
But it is the lowest form.
John
Are you quoting Oscar Wilde at me?
Or half quoting to be accurate, the full version is
"Sarcasm is the lowest form of wit, but the highest form of intelligence."  ;)
Title: Re: Experience of fettling a Thorn Audax Mk4 with tubeless tyres
Post by: leftpoole on April 29, 2020, 10:32:40 am
Sarcasm is a form of wit apparently.
But it is the lowest form.
John
Are you quoting Oscar Wilde at me?
Or half quoting to be accurate, the full version is
"Sarcasm is the lowest form of wit, but the highest form of intelligence."  ;)

I was not quoting anyone ( that I was aware of) actually. I was simply referring to a common quote which seems suitable.
John
Title: Re: Experience of fettling a Thorn Audax Mk4 with tubeless tyres
Post by: John Saxby on April 29, 2020, 11:31:21 pm
Easy, guys, easy.

It's well known that levity is the soul of wit.

Cheers,  J.
Title: Re: Experience of fettling a Thorn Audax Mk4 with tubeless tyres
Post by: leftpoole on April 30, 2020, 11:39:33 am
 :'( :'( :'(
Title: Re: Experience of fettling a Thorn Audax Mk4 with tubeless tyres
Post by: trailplanner on June 26, 2020, 12:26:38 pm
2,000km on tubeless Pro-One - first puncture.  Not that I noticed until I got home and found my frame had a respray!

Picture attached.

Overall I am very pleased but had to buy a booster pump to fit these a second time.  G-One's are for winter, Pro-One's for summer, forcing a 6-monthly change of sealant.

They are more expensive, but I really value to increased comfort and speed.
Title: Re: Experience of fettling a Thorn Audax Mk4 with tubeless tyres
Post by: lewis noble on June 26, 2020, 01:37:27 pm
V interesting thread . . . . I somehow missed it first time round.

And my own experience with the Audax, mine is Mk3R, is similar, very stable, predictable and reassuring in it's handling.  Not only at higher speeds, but at lower plodding-slowly-up-steep-hills speeds ; mine is quite happy below 3 mph as well as at 40.

Thanks for posting.

Lewis
Title: Re: Experience of fettling a Thorn Audax Mk4 with tubeless tyres
Post by: leftpoole on June 26, 2020, 03:58:36 pm
V interesting thread . . . . I somehow missed it first time round.

And my own experience with the Audax, mine is Mk3R, is similar, very stable, predictable and reassuring in it's handling.  Not only at higher speeds, but at lower plodding-slowly-up-steep-hills speeds ; mine is quite happy below 3 mph as well as at 40.

Thanks for posting.

Lewis



Excellent Lewis!
John
Title: Re: Experience of fettling a Thorn Audax Mk4 with tubeless tyres
Post by: trailplanner on August 10, 2020, 01:29:00 pm
I have updated my blog with experiences after 3,000km.  Now I am not so sure about tubeless. Am I getting more punctures than usual?

https://trailplanner.co.uk/2020/04/25/fine-tuning-a-new-thorn-audax-mk4/

I'll give it more time, but I have added pros/cons for tubeless. Does anyone else use tubeless on an Audax?
Title: Re: Experience of fettling a Thorn Audax Mk4 with tubeless tyres
Post by: martinf on August 10, 2020, 08:27:40 pm
Latex tubes are perhaps an option, as a sort of halfway house between butyl inner tubes and tubeless.

They are supposed to be better than butyl tubes for rolling resistance and comfort, which I believe after using them. 

This site has some data that confirms my empirical belief, at least as far as rolling resistance is concerned:

https://www.bicyclerollingresistance.com/specials/tubeless-latex-butyl-tubes

Some manufacturers also claim better puncture resistance, but I don't believe that.

Downsides are that they need topping up much more frequently than butyl, they are generally more expensive than butyl, and after a few years they perish and need replacing, whereas butyl tubes can last for many years.

Advantage over tubeless is no need for sealant or special inflation boosters, and just as easy as butyl tubes to replace at the roadside. Most manufacturers don't recommend patching them, but I do this and it hasn't posed any problems.

I run latex tubes on my Thorn Raven heavy tourer with 2" x 26" Marathon Supremes, my Thorn Raven Sport Tour with 1.35 x 26" Kojaks, and my lightweight derailleur bike with 28x700C Schwalbe One tyres.

I haven't bothered on my utility bikes, as I reckon the performance gain isn't worth the hassle of the more frequent reinflation required.
Title: Re: Experience of fettling a Thorn Audax Mk4 with tubeless tyres
Post by: trailplanner on August 10, 2020, 10:14:52 pm
That's interesting...something else to try later, maybe for my Sherpa.  Thanks for posting.