Thorn Cycles Forum
Community => Thorn General => Topic started by: Pavel on December 17, 2019, 08:16:14 pm
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It appears that Thorn main page is now changed, and the new brochures feature the most recent versions of each of the models. Feels a bit like Christmas early. :)
https://www.thorncycles.co.uk/bikes
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Thanks for the heads-up, Pavel!
And best to you for Christmas and the new year,
John
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I think that mountain on the page background is Mt Robson, in the Canadian Rockies.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mount_Robson
- DaveS
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Has the Raven been discontinued?
Hoot
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Has the Raven been discontinued?
Hoot
The Raven is almost a postscript, it is down at the bottom if you scroll down.
Looks to be a rationalising of models which is sensible. The designer is reaching or maybe past 'retirement'.
I still feel the catalogue is too garish and could be improved further with the removal of the bright blue writing. Personal opinion no doubt!
John
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Thanks for the heads up. Interesting to compare the range with at of say 10 years ago. A lot more emphasis on 700c wheels, disk brakes and perhaps even derailleurs. The Raven seems to be being squeezed by the nomad and the mercury.
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Has the Raven been discontinued?
Hoot
The Raven is almost a postscript, it is down at the bottom if you scroll down.
Looks to be a rationalising of models which is sensible. The designer is reaching or maybe past 'retirement'.
I still feel the catalogue is too garish and could be improved further with the removal of the bright blue writing. Personal opinion no doubt!
John
Yes, I did see it and clicked the link - no brochure. Same with the Sherpa. Maybe geocycle is right - getting squeezed out by the Nomad and Mercury.
Hoot
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Looking good. Virtually all touring needs covered.
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I don't think that consolidation the line a bit, would be a bad thing. The Sherpa and the Nomad were similar enough to call identical for purpose, except for the derailleur vs "Superior mode of motivation" :D and now that the Nomad can be set up both ways, it would make sense to retire the Sherpa. The Raven, after the RST was removed, I think is in a sort of "no-man's land" as well, and I'd not be surprised if once inventory has dwindled, that the rest will be sold at discount as the passing of the model is announced.
Of interesting note; has anyone else noticed the bright bold announcement in the Bible that the whole batch of disk ready boost front forks was thought to be sub-standard and scrapped? A new batch is hoped for in spring 2020. That sure will impact sales a bit, I'd imagine.
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Looks like Thorn are following fashion - much more emphasis on disc brakes, 700C "gravel" and 650B tyres, much less on 26" 559 tyres.
If the Raven is phased out, the only Thorn option remaining for a 26" Rohloff touring bike will be the Nomad. Up till now Thorn have considered the Nomad to be overkill for many tourers.
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The Raven is still the most affordable way into rohloff. Even as a committed rohloff fan I'd hesitate on spending £3k on a mercury or nomad (but of course personal circumstances differ and it can be justified over time). That said my next Thorn will probably be a mercury as a replacement for my lovely RST.
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RETIRE THE SHERPA?? I hope not . . . . it remains my favourite bike, good for a whole range of tasks, and I'm riding it more often at the moment as I find it better than the drop-bar Audax in bad weather, poor urban roads and heavy traffic. I am happy with derrailieurs and rim brakes, suits my distances and speed, and I think there is a place in any range for a 'basic' bike. And who knows, I might need the step thru version in a few years!! I would not need and could not justify a step-thru Nomad . . . .
So I'll be looking after my Sherpa even more carefully . . . . .
Lewis
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If the Raven is phased out, the only Thorn option remaining for a 26" Rohloff touring bike will be the Nomad. Up till now Thorn have considered the Nomad to be overkill for many tourers.
That was certainly my calculation, Martin. The Nomad was much more bike than I needed, esp with the Nomad X being phased out when I was buying. I opted for the Raven's versatility, and have had no regrets about that.
For unladen day rides in hilly country, I use my ti-framed light touring derailleur bike. But, longstanding headaches with the rear derailleurs (many variants have been tried over 15-plus years) regularly remind me, "Don't try loaded touring with this, mate."
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I don't think that consolidation the line a bit, would be a bad thing. The Sherpa and the Nomad were similar enough to call identical for purpose, except for the derailleur vs "Superior mode of motivation" :D and now that the Nomad can be set up both ways, it would make sense to retire the Sherpa. The Raven, after the RST was removed, I think is in a sort of "no-man's land" as well, and I'd not be surprised if once inventory has dwindled, that the rest will be sold at discount as the passing of the model is announced.
Of interesting note; has anyone else noticed the bright bold announcement in the Bible that the whole batch of disk ready boost front forks was thought to be sub-standard and scrapped? A new batch is hoped for in spring 2020. That sure will impact sales a bit, I'd imagine.
Actually, the Nomad is more robust than the Sherpa. It is the Raven that is identical to the Sherpa, other than drivetrain, of course.
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I was wondering the same thing about the Raven and the Sherpa. Wonderful bikes but I guess Thorn are rationalising the range.
I suppose that if a Nomad is overkill for your needs but you want a fat tyre they now have the option of a 650B Club Tour or Mercury depending your preference of transmission.
For everything apart from exhibition touring I suppose 650B tyres have supplanted the 26", there's a terrific choice of 650B tyres on the market now too.
As an owner of a 26" Thorn Rohloff tandem and a 26" Rohloff Surly my colours are, for the time being very much nailed to the 26" mast.
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Has the Raven been discontinued?
Hoot
The designer is reaching or maybe past 'retirement'.
The designer of the catalogue or the designer of the bikes?
Or is it the same person?
I often wonder if there is a sucession plan in place at Thorn.
Mike
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Has the Raven been discontinued?
Hoot
The designer is reaching or maybe past 'retirement'.
The designer of the catalogue or the designer of the bikes?
Or is it the same person?
I often wonder if there is a sucession plan in place at Thorn.
Mike
Hello,
Designer of cycles and as far as I’m aware, the web pages also. I’ll ask him next time I speak to him.
John
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The one thing that the new catalogues really need, are updated stories and photos - perhaps from some of you all, the customers, who've gone on some fantastic trips.
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I was wondering the same thing about the Raven and the Sherpa. Wonderful bikes but I guess Thorn are rationalising the range.
I suppose that if a Nomad is overkill for your needs but you want a fat tyre they now have the option of a 650B Club Tour or Mercury depending your preference of transmission.
For everything apart from exhibition touring I suppose 650B tyres have supplanted the 26", there's a terrific choice of 650B tyres on the market now too.
As an owner of a 26" Thorn Rohloff tandem and a 26" Rohloff Surly my colours are, for the time being very much nailed to the 26" mast.
Joe B, did you mean exhibition touring or do you mean expedition touring? lol.
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As an owner of a 26" Thorn Rohloff tandem and a 26" Rohloff Surly my colours are, for the time being very much nailed to the 26" mast.
Joe, I have just checked the vertical positioning of the brake pads on my Raven's Deore V-brakes fore and aft. At the rear, I still have 15 mm of adjustment remaining, so I think I could just fit a 650B rim there. At the front, I have 20-plus mm of vertical adjustment remaining.
Similarly, there's 20 mm or so of vertical adjustment available for fenders fore and aft. Currently, I use a 20mm spacer plus steel and leather or rubber washers in setting the vertical clearance on both fenders.
If Schwalbe were to decide that my precious 26" Supremes are all-of-a-sudden passé, then I think I could fit a 650B rim and tire instead.
I don't know the dimensions of either your Thorn tandem or your Surly, but you might check your brake and fender mountings, to see what vertical adjustment remains.
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Joe B, did you mean exhibition touring or do you mean expedition touring? lol.
Dinyaknow, it's in the folklore: Lord and Lady Godiva rode into town on a Thorn Tandem?
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...If Schwalbe were to decide that my precious 26" Supremes are all-of-a-sudden passé, then I think I could fit a 650B rim and tire instead.
Happily, I found my late 2011 Sherpa Mk 2 was capable of taking 650B rims and tires: http://thorncyclesforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=3893.msg20016#msg20016
...and my 2012 Nomad Mk2 in size 590M will too: http://thorncyclesforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=7553.msg49661#msg49661
The brake pads only have to move upward 12.5mm, often possible on Thorn frames with v-brake posts because they thoughtfully fit the posts with the pads near the bottom of the adjustment slots to maximize arm/cable clearance. Once you determine you have enough brake pad adjustment to reach the larger diameter 650B rim, then the next obstacle is to see of you have room for the tires as well. The larger outside diameter of 650B means you would need to fit a smaller tire to match a 26in equivalent for the same outside diameter. For example, my 26x2.0 (measuring 47-50mm actual depending on inflation) Schwalbe Duremes are within 1mm of the same outside diameter as a 650x38B tire like the Grand Bois Lierre. To fit 650 tires larger than 38mm, all you need do is measure for the extra needed clearance between the tire and fork crown, seatstay and chainstay bridges, and side to side to make sure you have space between the fork blades and stays. Once you've done that it will be clear if you could also fit mudguards with the larger tires. Many Thorns with 26 x 2.0 tires have generous clearances and are fitted with spacers between the 'guards and crown/bridges for a cleaner look with mudguards. If you need additional mud clearance, you can remove the spacers. Same for switching to a larger diameter 650B tire. The "rub" (literally) will be lateral clearance at the fork blades and at the rear, typically moreso at the seatstays - especially if you have fastback seatstays as on the Sherpas and Ravens. The Nomad has extra width there thanks to the wider placement of the upper steastay ends/caps alongside the seat lug.
If my experience is typical, there is indeed some "legacy" (backward) 650B compatibility for Thorns shod with 26in tires. This is my hedge against the future, too...along with a disc-compatible Rohloff end cap in case I need to modernize from a rear v-brake.
Best,
Dan.
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Joe B, did you mean exhibition touring or do you mean expedition touring? lol.
Dinyaknow, it's in the folklore: Lord and Lady Godiva rode into town on a Thorn Tandem?
:D
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...If Schwalbe were to decide that my precious 26" Supremes are all-of-a-sudden passé, then I think I could fit a 650B rim and tire instead.
Happily, I found my late 2011 Sherpa Mk 2 was capable of taking 650B rims and tires: http://thorncyclesforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=3893.msg20016#msg20016
...and my 2012 Nomad Mk2 in size 590M will too: http://thorncyclesforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=7553.msg49661#msg49661
The brake pads only have to move upward 12.5mm, often possible on Thorn frames with v-brake posts because they thoughtfully fit the posts with the pads near the bottom of the adjustment slots to maximize arm/cable clearance. Once you determine you have enough brake pad adjustment to reach the larger diameter 650B rim, then the next obstacle is to see of you have room for the tires as well. The larger outside diameter of 650B means you would need to fit a smaller tire to match a 26in equivalent for the same outside diameter. For example, my 26x2.0 (measuring 47-50mm actual depending on inflation) Schwalbe Duremes are within 1mm of the same outside diameter as a 650x38B tire like the Grand Bois Lierre. To fit 650 tires larger than 38mm, all you need do is measure for the extra needed clearance between the tire and fork crown, seatstay and chainstay bridges, and side to side to make sure you have space between the fork blades and stays. Once you've done that it will be clear if you could also fit mudguards with the larger tires. Many Thorns with 26 x 2.0 tires have generous clearances and are fitted with spacers between the 'guards and crown/bridges for a cleaner look with mudguards. If you need additional mud clearance, you can remove the spacers. Same for switching to a larger diameter 650B tire. The "rub" (literally) will be lateral clearance at the fork blades and at the rear, typically moreso at the seatstays - especially if you have fastback seatstays as on the Sherpas and Ravens. The Nomad has extra width there thanks to the wider placement of the upper steastay ends/caps alongside the seat lug.
If my experience is typical, there is indeed some "legacy" (backward) 650B compatibility for Thorns shod with 26in tires. This is my hedge against the future, too...along with a disc-compatible Rohloff end cap in case I need to modernize from a rear v-brake.
Best,
Dan.
She used a Thudbuster, and that is why she looks so serene and noble in all those paintings.?
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I note from the Mercury brochure that "Our decals are now high quality self-adhesive decals and replacements are available." Which I think must mean they're now on top of the lacquer rather than under it. Pros and cons, but I dislike it.
Pros - You can remove them if you like the stealth look, or reposition them to cover a scrape or something else.
Cons - Sooner or later they look tatty, getting better now it's a big thing in the commercial motor industry, but the smaller they are the harder they are to protect. To me it's always been the sign of a cheap bike, even when stuck on some that are far from that.
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They used to make a positive about the decals being under the clear coat. Apparently their Taiwanese manufacturer was very pleased that the "Made in Taiwan" part was not on a removable sticker, as with most brands.
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Hi,
Regarding decals.
I’m of the opinion that it’s a cost cutting exercise and it is one I personally dislike.
I have purchased over the past years, a number of frames and building in my opinion some rather nice bikes!
I will no longer be buying frames if the decals are on top of the lacquer.
Spa Cycles sell Chinese built frames and the decal is simply supplied with the frame! Not for me.
It is the first backward step in many years.
Is there other than cost another reason for this I wonder?
John
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I think a touring bike that occasionally is packed up for travel is much more likely to have the decals damaged in regular use than a bike used for other purposes. I am sure my decals would look pretty bad on my yellow Nomad after packing it up a few times in the S&S case if there was not a clear coat over them. There is visible damage to the paint in a number of spots on that bike, but it is an expedition bike, there are supposed to be a few scrapes and scratches in the finish.
The clear outer coat on my Nomad peeled off in a few spots, not sure if the frame was not prepped well enough or if the clear coat was off spec. But fortunately it is not easily noticeable unless you are close enough to the bike to be working on it. The decals in this case fortunately have remained looking good. I think the clear coat that peeled off was not on the decals, only where it was over the other paint layer.
The top clear coat on my Sherpa looks great.
I have several other bikes that are not used for touring that have a lot of miles on them. They have not been packed up for travel since I bought the frames, those bikes do not show any wear and tear on the decals and the paint looks great. I think how a bike looks depends in large part on how the bike is used and the potential for that type of use to show on the frame. Touring can be tough on a bike finish.
I put a used Surly fork on my Titanium bike. It took a lot of work to get the decals off that fork before I sprayed it a different color.
Some people remove the decals in an attempt to make the bike less likely to be stolen, but I am not sure how successful that is. I do not park my better looking bikes in high theft areas, for example when I ride a bike to the local University campus, I take my early 90s vintage Bridgestone that has a lot of rust on it. And when I park my Titanium bike somewhere, I use my best lock since that is my most expensive looking bike.
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had my sherpa nearly 10 years now i nearly didn't buy it as i really wanted a frame that would take disk brakes,
it was a toss up between the sherpa or a surly troll, no regrets but next NEW bike won't be a thorn, don't want rohloff don't want 650 or 700 wheels and i think the nomad would be overkill for my needs
had been patiently waiting for Thorn to finally get around to updating the sherpa to a more modern spec looks like I'm going to be looking at a Intec m1 disk next time
as for stickers on top of lacquer don't like them they look naff don't last and are to easily removed if the bike is stolen
imo they should of kept the stainless head badge as even after a respray they still look good and no denying they were a thorn before the respray
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imo they should of kept the stainless head badge as even after a respray they still look good and no denying they were a thorn before the respray
I see the
Thorn logo is cast into the new eccentric bottom bracket shells and may still appear on the dropouts, making origin discernible after a respray. ;)
That said, I sure liked the original brazed-on stainless headbadge from the days when Thorn had its frameworks onsite or contracted for them to be built under contract in the UK.
Best,
Dan.
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I for one am glad always when a manufacturer offers decals without clear coat over them, as I, given any opportunity would remove most of them, and as much modifying as we all tend to do, would it not be easy and inexpensive to have a body repair shop spray clear coat, if one is fixated on keeping the bike pretty?
The more worn and ugly my bikes cosmetics are, the better I like it, considering the weight of strong locks. An ugly bike does not attract the attention of thieves nearly as much, and while I'm vain as much as any other, having a beloved Thorn stolen is of greater concern.
Fortunately here in the Deep South of the the eastern USA, most folks have no idea what a Rohloff is, and consider a bicycle to be the saddest form of travel, only suitable for those who have lost their drivers license due to drinking and driving. Here, bikes are stolen as frequently as old smelly socks.
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I for one am glad always when a manufacturer offers decals without clear coat over them, as I, given any opportunity would remove most of them, and as much modifying as we all tend to do, would it not be easy and inexpensive to have a body repair shop spray clear coat, if one is fixated on keeping the bike pretty?
Pavel.
Some people are proud to show the make of cycle they are using.
Some people are proud to have a nice clean cycle.
If you want your cycle to look rubbish, best buy a rubbish cycle!
Greetings from England.
John
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would it not be easy and inexpensive to have a body repair shop spray clear coat, if one is fixated on keeping the bike pretty?
As I said pros and cons...
But no, not possible to get as good a finish over the top of self adhesive vinyl stickers as over to top of those designed for the job. The better clear coats are baked on, and these stickers wouldn't survive. plus they're always going to be more pronounced so the edges on the lacquer will be vulnerable there. You can of course get air drying lacquer, but it isn't anything like as robust.