Thorn Cycles Forum

Community => Non-Thorn Related => Topic started by: Andre Jute on November 08, 2019, 05:14:19 pm

Title: Best bicycle component you ever bought?
Post by: Andre Jute on November 08, 2019, 05:14:19 pm
So as not to hog John's handlebar and setup thread for his new bike with perhaps irrelevant enthusiasms, I've made this new thread for this:

Another part of the [sitting more upright] formula is a wide springy seat. I've got a Brooks B66 on that bike. They make saddles that are even springier.

Yes. The absolutely best bicycle component investment I've ever made was a B73 saddle that was on sale at SJS for £50, years and years ago. It's the only component that has come over with me to all the bikes I've bought since. The irony is, I bought that saddle only because it wasn't very expensive on the sale, merely to see what everyone else was going on about, Brooks this and Brooks that. Now you'll take it away from me only by unclenching it from my cold dead... Well, I'll leave the anatomical imagination there.

The B73 has triple helical coils, one at each corner of the saddle, plus four flat springs in the double-rail mounting. The coils and the thick leather still feel ultra-stiff but the ride is very comfortable indeed. I also have matching grips, edge-on leather rings assembled on tiny bicycle spokes (I kid you not..) between cast ali end pieces, the whole thing a surefire icebreaker with cyclists met on the road.

My B73 and the grips were honey-colored but I immediately made them a custom mid-brown by application of neatsfoot oil.

Here is the black B73 that SJS currently has on sale for £95:
(https://www.sjscycles.co.uk/images/products/small/49520.jpg)
Here's a link to the saddle and spare parts for it:
https://www.sjscycles.co.uk/search/?term=Brooks%20B73 (https://www.sjscycles.co.uk/search/?term=Brooks%20B73)

Frankly, I don't see the need to stock up on spare parts as my saddle, except for a few scuffs from an adventurous life on narrow ways and rough roads, is in virtually as-new condition as regards the hardware, and the leather is still smart.

If you're tempted to buy the B73 SJS is offering, there is one extra you should buy, which is this overpriced piece:
(https://www.sjscycles.co.uk/images/products/small/28524.jpg)
on the same page. It absolves you from using Brooks' wretchedly crude old style saddle mounting clip, and finding a candle-head seatpost to fit it to, and permits you to use a standard micro-adjustable seatpost. It is absolutely essential to have one of these if you own a twin-rail Brooks saddle and are at all particular about your saddle position. (I am. My back doesn't work unless saddle and handlebars and pedals are arranged to within 1mm in all directions.) My twin-rail adaptor is nylon, a gift from Julian (Julk), and a real lifesaver as at that time there was absolutely nothing available in the stores to do the job.

Brooks actually makes -- or made -- two bigger saddles than the B73, the B135, for really big people, and the B190, for sumo wrestlers only. The only B135 I ever saw had pebble finish to the leather, presumably as a location aid so the owner wouldn't slip off his throne. When I was a boy, the B190 was a standard fitting on "Colonial" Raleighs, the extra-heavy-duty jobs that municipalities in small towns provided to its health inspectors and meter readers; both bike and saddle were indestructible: there were boys riding riding to school on their fathers' discarded bikes, which were good for a generation or two still. When I bought my Utopia Kranich ten years ago, Utopia still listed the B190 as an option for German baumeisters.

There is also a downspecced, racier version of the B73, called the B72, which doesn't have the helical coils at each corner but is a hammock additionally sprung only by the double rails being curled into round springs halfway along their run. It looks clever, and may well be a comfort revelation to those accustomed to B17 Brooks saddles. SJS describes it as a "unisex" saddle.
(https://www.sjscycles.co.uk/images/products/small/48825.jpg)
https://www.sjscycles.co.uk/search/?term=Brooks%20B72

If you're tempted, don't forget the twin rail adaptor further down that page. It's essential to your sanity.
Title: Re: Best bicycle component you ever bought?
Post by: julk on November 08, 2019, 05:49:09 pm
One of my sons has matured and wanted a wider more comfortable saddle.
I pointed him at a B67 - similar to a B66 but with single saddle rails.
He is now seated more comfortably thanks to Brooks.
Julian.
Title: Re: Best bicycle component you ever bought?
Post by: julk on November 08, 2019, 05:54:03 pm
On another tack.
From my personal perspective the biggest improvement I have seen in my riding lifetime is the introduction of led lights both battery and dynamo driven.
The latest ones are just fantastic in light output performance and low current draw.
Julian.
Title: Re: Best bicycle component you ever bought?
Post by: martinf on November 08, 2019, 05:57:00 pm
Tried a B72 and didn't like the shape.

For upright riding in modern Brooks saddles I prefer the B67, got one of these on the big visitor bike, which has North Road style bars.

I still have a B66 Champion bought 31 years ago. I find this very comfortable for a semi-sporting position, it has softer springs than the modern equivalent. I've ridden a tad over 65,000 kms on it so far.
Title: Re: Best bicycle component you ever bought?
Post by: Andre Jute on November 10, 2019, 03:39:34 pm
Tried a B72 and didn't like the shape.

How did those novel springs work, Martin?
Title: Re: Best bicycle component you ever bought?
Post by: martinf on November 10, 2019, 09:39:51 pm
How did those novel springs work, Martin?

IIRC, as expected, somewhere between an unsprung saddle (B17) and a conventionally sprung saddle with two coil springs (B67 or Flyer).

My favourite sprung saddle is still the old B66 Champion. The wire used for the springs is a bit thinner than on modern equivalents, so they are not so stiff. Despite being theoretically too narrow for upright riding I found it more comfortable than the wider B67. But it has gone back on my old utility bike, as I use that far more often than the big visitor bike (which is mostly used by visitors).

I was thinking of trying to get a small batch of softer springs made for the more modern saddles, this would probably benefit my wife more than myself as she is about half my weight.

For riding my drop bar bikes, I don't need springs. A B17 does nicely for me. I don't crouch down low enough to be comfortable on anything narrower like a Brooks Pro.

Title: Re: Best bicycle component you ever bought?
Post by: Andre Jute on November 10, 2019, 10:47:26 pm
How did those novel springs work, Martin?

IIRC, as expected, somewhere between an unsprung saddle (B17) and a conventionally sprung saddle with two coil springs (B67 or Flyer).

About as I expected then. Thanks, Martin.
Title: Re: Best bicycle component you ever bought?
Post by: leftpoole on November 11, 2019, 10:42:31 am
Continental Gatorskin tyres!
John
Title: Re: Best bicycle component you ever bought?
Post by: Andre Jute on November 11, 2019, 02:33:58 pm
From my personal perspective the biggest improvement I have seen in my riding lifetime is the introduction of led lights both battery and dynamo driven.
The latest ones are just fantastic in light output performance and low current draw.
Julian.


Absolutely. We can probably point to the very day bicycle lamps matured by looking up the day BUMM launched the first series CYO.
Title: Re: Best bicycle component you ever bought?
Post by: John Saxby on November 11, 2019, 04:11:48 pm
Good question, Andre, and some interesting answers too.

For me, the best single item remains my Rohloff, for all the reasons justly celebrated on this forum.
 
Clustered more or less together, but a step behind the Rohloff, are my Brooks B17 Champion, my Velo Orange Grand Cru rando bars, my Marathon Supremes, and my Cygolite battery-powered headlight (replenished by my SON28 dynahub).
Title: Re: Best bicycle component you ever bought?
Post by: martinf on November 11, 2019, 07:17:13 pm
I think my best single item was a Sturmey-Archer S5/2 hub.

Over the 40-odd years since I started noting my cycling distances I've done about 110,000 kms (slightly less than half the total) on hub gears, mostly on S5/2 hubs.

The S5/2 showed me that there was a viable alternative to derailleurs for cycling, at least in moderately hilly areas, and eventually led to me getting my first Rohloff 7 years ago.
Title: Re: Best bicycle component you ever bought?
Post by: leftpoole on November 12, 2019, 08:47:08 am
The S 5/2 was a fabulous hub and I had one fitted into a Claud Butler back in the 1990’s. I was living in Dorset and it’s hills. The gear range was brilliant and I would ride with another anytime!
John
Title: Re: Best bicycle component you ever bought?
Post by: geocycle on November 12, 2019, 10:58:49 am
Brooks saddle and rohloff hub come to mind as others have mentioned, however, I would probably go for my Schmidt dynamo hub.  This just works and has overcome the tyranny of batteries for the last decade. I've lost count of the number of times I have used it unexpectedly when I would otherwise have been without light.  It had one wobble, literally, when the bearings went but these were repaired under warranty.
Title: Re: Best bicycle component you ever bought?
Post by: PH on November 13, 2019, 10:55:30 am
Yep, predictably hubs, Rohloff and dynamo (I have the three S's SON, SP and Shimano) and the LED lighting that goes with them.
What about consumables, do they count?  If so  - Tyres, on every level, grip, puncture protection, longevity, today's offerings are so much better than anything available a couple of decades ago.
Title: Re: Best bicycle component you ever bought?
Post by: Pavel on December 17, 2019, 08:49:09 pm
For me, though I was first tempted to say the Rohloff was the most significant item, because it just makes me enjoy cycling in a new way.  But as far as what has been the greatest enabler to cycling the rohloff is in fact third in line after the LED light bulb in second place and my iPhone in first.

No more starting out for Florida, and winding up in Vermont!  How did we all do it before GPS? 
Title: Re: Best bicycle component you ever bought?
Post by: Andre Jute on December 17, 2019, 10:35:17 pm
Yes, my iPhone is central to my cycling too, but not for GPS. Instead of cadence control, I regulate my output on the bike by my heart rate, reported on my iPhone. But I didn't choose the iPhone because I can easily substitute a heart rate monitor with its own display. The thing about anyone's chosen flavour of Brooks saddle, or the Rohloff gearbox, is that there really isn't a direct substitute.

Well, there are Dutch Lepper leather saddles so long-lasting they are used on the Swiss Army bikes, but getting one is a pain because they have no anglophone distribution, though in more recent years they've occasionally appeared on Ebay.
Title: Re: Best bicycle component you ever bought?
Post by: energyman on December 18, 2019, 08:31:53 am
A SR Lookin Saddle on the basis if my bum is comfortable then all is well with the world ;)
Title: Re: Best bicycle component you ever bought?
Post by: Pavel on December 20, 2019, 12:45:03 am
A SR Lookin Saddle on the basis if my bum is comfortable then all is well with the world ;)

Ahh, so the rear, takes front position, so to speak.  Sage wisdom.
Title: Re: Best bicycle component you ever bought?
Post by: Mike Ayling on December 22, 2019, 09:25:51 pm
+1 for Rohloff.
I have two, on my Mercury and Thorn tandem.

Mike
Title: Re: Best bicycle component you ever bought?
Post by: rafiki on December 23, 2019, 05:22:09 am
Well, there are Dutch Lepper leather saddles so long-lasting they are used on the Swiss Army bikes, but getting one is a pain because they have no anglophone distribution, though in more recent years they've occasionally appeared on Ebay.

https://hollandbikeshop.com/en-gb/bicycle-saddles-seatposts/lepper-saddle/
Title: Re: Best bicycle component you ever bought?
Post by: Andre Jute on December 23, 2019, 05:47:32 am
Well found, Brian. Those Lepper saddles also look to be a fraction cheaper than the Brooks. I like the sound of the extra-long Hammock.
Title: Re: Best bicycle component you ever bought?
Post by: rafiki on December 23, 2019, 10:13:17 am
They do look good. I'm considering one for my new Brompton. An interesting site in general.
Title: Re: Best bicycle component you ever bought?
Post by: GamblerGORD649 on April 08, 2020, 07:34:26 am
Well I have to put my SA stuff first fiddle. Sorry herr Rohloff.
Best is my SA XL-FDD dyno drum hub. It both took me out of the DARK ages and gave me 100% reliable brakes that don't scratch and screech the rim. ZERO adjustments or problems, except the inevitable bearing change at 17,000 miles. Not even the crumbs from 4 balls sucked into the magnet slowed it down. LOL Now past 24,000 miles.
 Plus it is FABULOUS on my tour 120 lb bike, ZERO worries. Contrary to laughably WRONG conventional thinking and uninformed anti SA bias.  ::) "It will fade" LOL

At the same time I bought a SA XL-RD 5w. Before the shifting went goofy, I just LOVED how it silently flew me down the highway.... And down the hill at 45.8 mph. All my speed and distance records were with it. My defaileurs were absolute garbage in comparison. But of course it couldn't power a tour bike. So enter the noisy Rohloff LOL, now with 16,500 miles and a TRP Spyre disc brake that locks on a dime. I actually took 3 SA 16T cogs and got them carved out and welded to 13T Rohloff cogs. FAR stronger and quieter. I use 1/8" chains that somehow don't last half as long as you guys setups. WTH
  I positively SNEER at any and all other defailleur bikes. Especially when their spokes break. Awwwww. LOL
I love my SA brake levers too.
Title: Re: Best bicycle component you ever bought?
Post by: Bill C on April 08, 2020, 04:55:06 pm

  I positively SNEER at any and all other defailleur bikes. Especially when their spokes break. Awwwww. LOL


i'll take a broken spoke over a broken flange any day
just out of curiosity what you going to do if your rohloff goes belly up, the thorn workshop is closed and good luck with getting one sent back to the fatherland, totally unfit for the apocalypse   8)
me i'll dust off a rapid rise mech and fix it myself, i will now engage smug mode as Kryten would say

(https://i.imgur.com/MiEJ8YP.png)
Title: Re: Best bicycle component you ever bought?
Post by: Andre Jute on April 08, 2020, 07:26:59 pm
Such handsome fellow, you are. -- Yoda
Title: Re: Best bicycle component you ever bought?
Post by: Mike Ayling on April 08, 2020, 11:28:44 pm
For me, though I was first tempted to say the Rohloff was the most significant item, because it just makes me enjoy cycling in a new way.  But as far as what has been the greatest enabler to cycling the rohloff is in fact third in line after the LED light bulb in second place and my iPhone in first.

No more starting out for Florida, and winding up in Vermont!  How did we all do it before GPS?

We knew how to read a map!
And some of us still utilise this skill!

Mike
Title: Re: Best bicycle component you ever bought?
Post by: GamblerGORD649 on April 08, 2020, 11:31:27 pm
LOL... Here just for you Bill C....
I just did a broken spoke search on CGOAB. 2205 results, many for the same few threads, but whatever.
30 seconds later I find this guy with a RECORD 27 broke spokes for a FUJI bike and a replacement wheel. LOL
https://www.crazyguyonabike.com/forum/board/message/?nested=0&o=1mr&page=1&thread_id=139954&v=l#bottom
Last year I found guys with the same failings with a LHT.

Here is the champion rear hub breaker, Ray Pokai < changed name to Rei Bronson, at CGOAB. He is like 6'5" and 300+ lbs, but still...
He had a Surly Troll, almost NOTHING survived 6,500 miles. Rear hubs broke 4 times, something about pawls. Unfortunately he hid all his impressive videos at YT. THEN he bought a ROHLOFF14, BTW.
https://www.crazyguyonabike.com/doc/page/?o=1mr&page_id=378325&v=7C

>>> I also did 4,200 miles in VN and China, only problem was my weak fork breaking 3 times at the same place. A  bad brazeon and the too strong drum brake stressed it, snapped straight across like a lazer cut it. Still the same SA cable after 5 years and 20,000 miles.

Lots more at Bikeforums. net.

Title: Re: Best bicycle component you ever bought?
Post by: Bill C on April 08, 2020, 11:57:30 pm
i'm not a giant nor am i a fat slob only ever broken a couple of spokes in my life, everything on my bikes can be repaired by me that's why i never bought into rohloffs well that and the fact they have a crap gear range.... and the fact i have been on here long enough to be pig sick of the bitching and snarky comments such as yours about "defailleurs"

you didn't answer my question what are you going to do if your rohloff dies? noone can fix it at an lbs and i doubt you can either
you were happy to slag my choice explain how having something inferior will enhance my cycling
Title: Re: Best bicycle component you ever bought?
Post by: PH on April 09, 2020, 12:38:21 am
Another thread gone from an interesting subject to an excuse to be rude about others choices...
Title: Re: Best bicycle component you ever bought?
Post by: Danneaux on April 09, 2020, 12:48:05 am
Quote
Another thread gone from an interesting subject to an excuse to be rude about others choices...
...which is why I've locked the topic for a bit until cooler heads prevail.

Remember, our little community here is known for its high standards of interaction. Differences of opinion are fine, but personal attacks are not, so keep that in mind; it's in the rules everyone agreed to when joining.

Thankfully, there's no one way to enjoy or equip bicycles.They are each a personal reflection of ourselves and preferences. Vive la differénce, live and let live, share and help as you can. There's enough strife in the larger world and folks dealing with much larger problems than this right now.

Best,

Dan.
Title: Re: Best bicycle component you ever bought?
Post by: Danneaux on April 10, 2020, 04:42:56 pm
Okay, let's try this again.  :)

What is the best bicycle component you ever bought?

Everyone has their own favorites; it is nice to find out what and why.

Hard to narrow down to just one for me, but in terms of sheer lifespan, I have to say "SunTour Cyclone MkII derailleurs". Purchased mostly in 1983, mine are still going strong on a number of my bikes. Friction-shifted, these things have managed the seemingly impossible: Being light and jewel-like while tough as nails and lasting a long, long time in service. 173g for a long-cage GT model is crazy-light! 32,000+ miles on one of my bikes, 28,000+ on another with nary a problem. Swapped in some Bullseye derailleur pulleys with sealed cartridge bearings and never looked back.

For more, see: http://www.disraeligears.co.uk/Site/SunTour_Cyclone_Mark-II_GT_derailleur_3700.html

Best,

Dan. (...who likes the "modern classics").
Title: Re: Best bicycle component you ever bought?
Post by: Bill C on April 10, 2020, 05:48:41 pm
supernova e3 triple for me, i used to only ride at night if i had to,
now i prefer night riding, totally transformed my cycling, no one else out usually less windy and much safer as cars know i'm there even on single lane roads with high hedges, a petzl in case of punctures helps

https://supernova-lights.com/en/e3-triple-2/
Title: Re: Best bicycle component you ever bought?
Post by: martinf on April 10, 2020, 08:56:51 pm
Hard to narrow down to just one for me, but in terms of sheer lifespan, I have to say "SunTour Cyclone MkII derailleurs"

If it's on lifespan, my Woodrup frameset (OK, perhaps not strictly speaking a component).

This was the first new bike frame I bought myself, in 1977. Still going after 76,000 kms, though I don't think anything apart from the frame and forks is original. And only occasionally used now, as I now have a relatively lightweight Rohloff bike that I use for the same role of lightly-loaded day rides.

Apart from the frameset, my longest lifespan components, which are still serving on my old 650B tyre utility bike, all after decades of use and from 50,000 to 65,000 kms so far are:
- a Brooks B66 Champion saddle,
- 1980's Deore XT 4 finger brake levers,
- one of my Sturmey-Archer S5/2 hubs
- a high quality steel handlebar (Tange).

A pair of Mikashima quill pedals with steel cages come close, I got these second hand over 40 years ago and they are still going after at least 47,000 kms, currently fitted to my "new" utility bike. Judging by the condition of the finish, they had already had significant use before I got them. 

A couple of other components reached the 50,000 km mark, a GB Randonneur alloy handlebar that I pre-emptively scrapped a few years ago after about 3 decades of use (concern about possible fatigue failure of alloy), and a set of 170 mm Stronglight 49D cranks that I retired when I solved knee problems by changing over to using 150 mm cranks. 

As far as influence on my cycling is concerned, I reckon the three most important were :

- wide range derailleur gearing. Not a single component, but a combination of TA chainset with a huge difference between small 28T and large 48T chainrings, freewheel (14 to 28T, which was wide range for the time) and wide range front and rear derailleurs (Shimano Crane, this was just before SunTour was widely available in the UK). This made cycle-camping in hilly areas possible without having to get off and push.

- Brooks saddles. They don't work for everyone, but for me a Brooks B17 (or B66 Champion) made it possible to spend whole days riding for several days on end.

- Sturmey-Archer S5/2 hubs. I discovered these about 40 years ago and still have 5, of which 3 are in service and the other two kept as spares. They showed me that hub gears could be a reliable and low-maintenance alternative for utility riding and even some touring, as long as it wasn't in mountainous areas, and led to me changing over almost exclusively to hub gears later on when Shimano 8 and Rohloff 14 became available.

Never managed huge distances with rear derailleurs, on the kinds of roads and tracks I used there was generally a piece of wire or other debris lurking in wait to terminate these before they completely wore out. And the Shimano Deore RD-M592-SGS I used on my last big tour with a deralleur bike is fairly worn after less than 5000 km, perhaps because of several hundred kms use on wet sandy tracks.
Title: Re: Best bicycle component you ever bought?
Post by: Matt2matt2002 on April 10, 2020, 08:59:43 pm
Chainglider for me.
Title: Re: Best bicycle component you ever bought?
Post by: martinf on April 11, 2020, 08:24:20 am
Chainglider for me.

I am also a Chainglider convert, but to me it is the icing on the cake that makes a reliable hub gear even more low maintenance.
Title: Re: Best bicycle component you ever bought?
Post by: Andre Jute on April 11, 2020, 06:27:37 pm
Never managed huge distances with rear derailleurs, on the kinds of roads and tracks I used there was generally a piece of wire or other debris lurking in wait to terminate these before they completely wore out.

Never managed not to wreck a derailleur transmission or achieve any total distance over a thousand miles, so it was a constant nuisance and pain in the pocket, not to mention that I hate getting my hands dirty. I have such a history with derailleurs, it is doubtful whether I can even make a fair comparison with hub gears. My Shimano Nexus hub gears never made more than 3200km before they too were wrecked, but I still speak well of them because, by comparison to derailleurs, they were brilliant. And of course the Rohloff is on a different level altogether. But the chain on it is from the Blacksmith Age of Bicycles, and the Gates belt drive alternative is simply another level of nuisance, expense and tiresomeness for café tourers.

I would thus, now that Dan and Martin have added longevity into the judgement of a component, add operating modes made possible by any component into the judgemental mix. If that is permitted, I'd say that my brilliant* idea of running the chain for life on the factory lube, an idea developed from a throwaway remark by Sheldon Brown, would feature in my top five, represented by the temporal physicality of the Chainglider which made such a very convenient operating mode possible. Others may put a different valuation on convenience and clean hands and more time to ride rather than fiddling with the bike, but I agree with Matt: the Chainglider, by rights of the possibilities it opens up, features strongly in his list and mine.

* I can't tell a lie just to appear humble.
Title: Re: Best bicycle component you ever bought?
Post by: Bill C on April 11, 2020, 07:43:29 pm
Never managed huge distances with rear derailleurs, on the kinds of roads and tracks I used there was generally a piece of wire or other debris lurking in wait to terminate these before they completely wore out.

Never managed not to wreck a derailleur transmission or achieve any total distance over a thousand miles

back to slagging derailleurs so soon after the thread was locked?
the topic is Best bicycle component you ever bought?  not have a pop at something you don't like
Title: Re: Best bicycle component you ever bought?
Post by: brummie on April 11, 2020, 08:29:38 pm
Fixed sprocket! - Controversial?  Love riding fixed wheel.
Title: Re: Best bicycle component you ever bought?
Post by: Bill C on April 11, 2020, 08:58:35 pm
Fixed sprocket! - Controversial?  Love riding fixed wheel.

don't tell me let me guess
you used to use a rear derailleur as a chain tensioner but they kept breaking  ;)
Title: Re: Best bicycle component you ever bought?
Post by: Andre Jute on April 11, 2020, 11:12:08 pm
Never managed huge distances with rear derailleurs, on the kinds of roads and tracks I used there was generally a piece of wire or other debris lurking in wait to terminate these before they completely wore out.

Never managed not to wreck a derailleur transmission or achieve any total distance over a thousand miles

back to slagging derailleurs so soon after the thread was locked?
the topic is Best bicycle component you ever bought?  not have a pop at something you don't like.

It's a public thread so, moderator permitting, any contributor can decide what it is about -- until the next contributor posts!

In any event, I wasn't slagging off derailleurs, merely explaining that derailleurs declined to get along with me, so I moved on to sounder engineering. But, since you tempt me, I'll add this: derailleurs failed to serve me as I was entitled to expect because they were, conceptually and in manufacture, rubbish engineering that should have been stifled at birth. The reason for this condemnation is obvious: they were made overly light and therefore failed, and will forever fail under anyone who isn't a ninety-pound weakling.

That derailleurs failed to serve Bernd and Barbara Rohloff -- on their honeymoon! -- as they were entitled to expect led directly to the creation of the Rohloff HGB, so I'm travelling in very tasty company here.
Title: Re: Best bicycle component you ever bought?
Post by: Danneaux on April 11, 2020, 11:25:24 pm
Quote
It's a public thread so, moderator permitting, any contributor can decide what it is about -- until the next contributor posts!
Correct.

...And a reminder to all to follow the rules and community spirit to keep interaction to the high standard we have long enjoyed. Andre and I (starting with USENET in 1980) have been through the newsgroup wars and know firsthand the low levels discourse can quickly fall to in the complete absence of moderation. It won't happen here.

Recent restrictions and events have us all on edge. Be good and nice to each other, as some of us won't get through these perilous and sobering times.

Best,

Dan.
Title: Re: Best bicycle component you ever bought?
Post by: Bill C on April 12, 2020, 01:29:27 am
Hi Dan
I'm not trying to be a PIA i explained by pm that the constant moaning and point scoring was ruining my enjoyment of the forum
I'm here because i like thorn bikes, not because of rohloffs
 the forum says Thorn at the top  of the page so why the constant sniping about the derailleur Thorn bikes that made Thorn famous and the firm that it is now?
they were sold back in the day as the most reliable expedition bikes available, now because a few people have bought into rohloff all of a sudden a derailleur isn't even capable of getting you to the end of the street? you know as well as i do that is BS,
my 2 xtc's aren't crap, my Kevin sayles built commutour isn't crap. my nomad isn't/won't be crap nor is my Sherpa or my ventura and if i buy the audax i have my eye on i doubt that will be crap either none have rohloffs
am i to take it photo's and posts of the builds/refurbs are not welcome as they don't conform to the herds taste in thorns because they don't have a rohloff,
will i have to put up with people denigrating my hard work because i didn't chose a hub gear?
I'm pretty sure if i or others kept repeating negative comments about rohloffs there would be uproar, so why the double standards when it comes to derailleurs?
as i said i'm not out to cause hassle or offend any ones sensibilities so why are people who ride derailleur bikes expected to keep having to put up with the negativism and constant snide remarks
it doesn't make for a fun place to be when you are constantly being fed a load of bull about rohloffs being the be all and end all, they are a niche product a few old boys have embraced they have weaknesses and strengths as do derailleur bikes
i genuinely think the forum will suffer with the overt bias that is being displayed toward any Thorn/bike that hasn't got a rohloff

that said I'm off to order paint stripper, paint, wet and dry, thinners and decals as i have several things i could be (re)doing rather than getting wound up over other peoples opinions about the type of bikes i choose to buy,ride,restore and collect
atb Bill
Title: Re: Best bicycle component you ever bought?
Post by: Danneaux on April 12, 2020, 02:53:44 am
Well, Bill...

It does indeed say "Thorn Cycling Forum" at the top of the page and that is because Thorn (the bike maker) hosts the Forum...and sells bicycles equipped with derailleurs, Rohloff hubs, occasionally Shimano Alfines or the choice of either on one bike (new Nomad Mk3) for the greatest versatility.

Currently, Thorn offer the Audax, Club Tour and Sherpa with derailleur drivetrains. The Raven, Nomad, Mercury and a Tandem are equipped with Rohloff drivetrains. That's a pretty even split, indicating there are buyers for both drivetrains and Thorn caters to both markets.

Thorn was one of the first manufacturers to work with Rohloff and they are among the most experienced in servicing them. Thorn's feedback helped shape some of the ongoing innovations and enhancements to the hub. Andy Blance distilled his personal and professional knowledge into his Living with a Rohloff publication. By extension, the Thorn Cycling Forum has become a leading resource for those with questions about them. This comes from the Thorn workshop and via peer support (owner-users helping each other) to answer questions. Thorn has also excelled at combining Shimano's derailleur offerings from their racing and MTB lines into smooth-shifting, versatile touring drivetrains, not so easy now that drivetrains have become more specialized by use.

As a maker, Thorn has evolved with the times and still offers the latest reliable and practically versatile derailleur drivetrains on some of their bicycles and reliable Rohloff drivetrains on others. After careful research and monitoring, they have come to offer options such a split frame for Gates belts, through-axle forks and disc brakes front and rear, keeping the whole product line at the forefront of current trends and innovations, needed to remain competitive in the marketplace.

Derailleur and Rohloff drivetrains are just two means among many to propel a bicycle. Of my 15 bicycles, 14 have derailleurs, my Nomad Mk2 has a Rohloff and I have a spare used Rohloff. I've never had problems with either, despite putting in really high mileage on both. They all work fine for me.

Cycling is a personalized pursuit and we each go about things in our own way as we prefer because no single approach suits everyone.

Maybe we can all be pleased with what we have, happy for others in their choices and live and let live and/or learn about other things that also work. If you don't like Rohloff drivetrains and are happier with/prefer derailleurs, then be happy; you've got what you want. Experience is a remarkable shaper of opinion and not everyone has had the same good luck with one approach or the other.

Quote
i have several things i could be (re)doing rather than getting wound up over other peoples opinions about the type of bikes i choose to buy,ride,restore and collect

Agreed. Back on-topic.

Best,

Dan.

Title: Re: Best bicycle component you ever bought?
Post by: leftpoole on April 12, 2020, 11:38:02 am
Hello,
Whilst the Rohloff is indeed a fabulous hub, I have a real love of the S5/2 Sturmey Archer hub.
Although not such a range the S5/2 is a really remarkable gear unit. I used to ride with one some years ago and the Dorset hills were a real test.
Pity these are no longer available.
Best regards to all,
John
Title: Re: Best bicycle component you ever bought?
Post by: martinf on April 12, 2020, 06:23:48 pm
Never managed huge distances with rear derailleurs, on the kinds of roads and tracks I used there was generally a piece of wire or other debris lurking in wait to terminate these before they completely wore out.

Never managed not to wreck a derailleur transmission or achieve any total distance over a thousand miles

back to slagging derailleurs so soon after the thread was locked?
the topic is Best bicycle component you ever bought?  not have a pop at something you don't like

I don't think putting "wide range derailleur gearing" as one of the three things that have most influenced my cycling should be considered as slagging derailleurs.
Title: Re: Best bicycle component you ever bought?
Post by: Bill C on April 12, 2020, 09:35:02 pm

I don't think putting "wide range derailleur gearing" as one of the three things that have most influenced my cycling should be considered as slagging derailleurs.


hi Martinf

i quoted Andre's post in it he quoted your post after editing it
i did read you post and am aware you listed wide range derailleur gearing as one of the best components you had bought
I'm going to take a few months off the forum before i get so cheesed off i don't want to be involved with it anymore
it's finally warm enough to start spraying again and i have Thorns waiting for some tlc

adios till then Bill
Title: Re: Best bicycle component you ever bought?
Post by: Pavel on April 14, 2020, 10:08:17 pm
Best thing ever bought?  Cycling underwear.  The sunburn was terrible, until I got a pair.  :)
Title: Re: Best bicycle component you ever bought?
Post by: Andre Jute on April 15, 2020, 10:07:22 am
On one of his several netsites, in the days before he became an important politician, the California cyclist Steven M Scharf (Mayor Scharf to you)* had a choice selection of naked Danish ladies (hmm, not quite the right word, but they were definitely women) cycling here, there and everywhere. Being a cynic I wondered if the saddle burn was worth the frisson of outraging the bourgeoisie. Even lace lingerie might have offered more protection against Mr Brooks' stiff leather.

*Scharfie, in the years before BUMM saw the (LED) light, published superb plans for building powerful cycling lamps using decorator's track lamps from the MR11 and MR16 series. I built a set of each and the total cost was about twenty bucks for really useful lamps at a time when any lamp that could get a TUV or CE stamp after sunset was used on the roads only by the terminally reckless.
Title: Re: Best bicycle component you ever bought?
Post by: steve216c on August 27, 2020, 10:16:05 pm
Hub dynamos with LED lights. Now I ride day and night more visible to other traffic without worries of blowing a bulb or flattening batteries. On my current 3 bikes I have a Shimano, an S-Ram and a Chinese no name dynamo. All several years old and all great. I'm sure I have avoided accidents with that combination as car drivers are more aware of a well lit cyclist. And the bright LEDs make the unlit shortcuts through woodland ridable where old bulbs were just too weak.
Never had a SON but even the cheaper hubs are hardly noticeable when riding.
Title: Re: Best bicycle component you ever bought?
Post by: Andre Jute on August 28, 2020, 01:55:12 pm
Never had a SON but even the cheaper hubs are hardly noticeable when riding.

The spread of extra resistance of all the modern hub dynamos would probably fit into an ascent of a loot per mile of forward motion, in short a negligible quantity.

Unless you're going to be a world tourer beyond the limits of civilisation, or know for a fact that your great-great-grandchildren will be cyclists, you don't need a SON. Its only advantage is its longevity. For riding around home, for touring in your own country, and especially for commuting and riding in traffic, the Shimano with the Ultegra-level seals will be a better buy, regardless of price. The reason is that the Shimano comes up to delivering full output and useful and visible light several paces sooner than the SON, and maintains full power at a lesser speed than the SON. In city congestion those could be valuable paces for your limbs, your life or your tyres, and in traffic you want maximum visibility at the lowest possible speed. Since a Shimano hub generator depending on model costs about a third to a half the SON's price, the choice should be obvious. Most people, I suspect, buy a SON for the bragging rights*, and of course Thorn owners specify the SON because they intend touring far and wide.

* Full disclosure: I have one too, which came as a default on a German bike. If I'd known that having a SON and BUMM lamps would lead to Andreas Oehler of Schmidt Machinenbau (the makers of the SON, and outriders of BUMM, who supply the gubbins out of the CYO for Schmidt's own-brand lamp) appearing like a genie from a lamp to berate me for lese majeste every time I made some minor critical remark, I would have had the SON taken off and a Shimano fitted instead, regardless of the Shimano being an extra-cost option, which is what happens when you have Zero-Shimano Germans build your bike. Cycling is becoming more bizarre every year.
Title: Re: Best bicycle component you ever bought?
Post by: Pavel on August 28, 2020, 05:41:40 pm
I have both as well, and can't deal with the fiddly cheap plastic connector used in the Shimano. Those large metal spade connectors are such a simple bit of good design, I'd pay the price difference for just that aspect.  Now I can't mix and match the lights from one bike to another without a lot of work, redoing the harness. 

I've not bothered to observe any difference is charging speed, as it isn't too much of a concern for me, but every single test comparing dyno hubs has the Son out on top, in low speed charging.  Of course I no longer read any of that neither.

This thread has made me think how much bicycle touring is so much easier for all the gear we have.  It should make touring much better - If ever one can get out of the house, cycling, rather than comparing which widget is best, saving up, buying, saving up - upgrading.

Could all these improvements have people like me losing track of how simple it could be, and once was? 
Title: Re: Best bicycle component you ever bought?
Post by: PH on August 28, 2020, 10:10:01 pm

The spread of extra resistance of all the modern hub dynamos would probably fit into an ascent of a loot per mile of forward motion, in short a negligible quantity.
I know we live in lawless times, so I leave the bike at home when I go looting.
I have two SON, a Shimano and a SP, so no brand loyalty from me.  They were all bought with different criteria, but there is something special about the SON ones that goes beyond their function.  Polished for one thing, so my 12 and 16 year old models can be made to look like new.   
Title: Re: Best bicycle component you ever bought?
Post by: John Saxby on August 29, 2020, 04:09:26 am
 
Quote
Polished for one thing

Best to have a SON that shines, eh?  ;)
Title: Re: Best bicycle component you ever bought?
Post by: martinf on August 29, 2020, 07:14:39 am
I have both as well, and can't deal with the fiddly cheap plastic connector used in the Shimano. Those large metal spade connectors are such a simple bit of good design, I'd pay the price difference for just that aspect.

On all-weather commuting bikes (I'm retired now, so no longer commuting), when removing the wheel to repair a puncture, I preferred the Shimano or SP connector for convenience over the SON spade connectors.

That convenience has also been possible with the SON for a few years, since the introduction of their coaxial conversion harness:

https://www.sjscycles.co.uk/dynamos/son-coaxial-conversion-harness-21cm/
Title: Re: Best bicycle component you ever bought?
Post by: dgc on August 29, 2020, 07:04:35 pm
A Primus Stove.
Title: Re: Best bicycle component you ever bought?
Post by: John Saxby on August 29, 2020, 07:36:38 pm
Quote
I preferred the Shimano or SP connector for convenience over the SON spade connectors.

For the SON28 on my Raven, Martin, I inserted two pairs of Deans connectors a few inches north of the hub. (See the photo below.)  That allows me to remove the front wheel without touching the connectors at the hub itself.

Further north still, above the crown of the fork, I installed two more inline spade connectors. These allow me to remove the forks as well as the wheel, without having to disturb the wiring.

That arrangement has worked well for me in the seven seasons I've had the bike.  I use it for touring -- perhaps the story would be a bit different if I used the bike for commuting.

Full disclosure:  Dan very kindly gave me detailed plans and encouragement.  No way could I have done this from scratch myself. I had to refresh soldering skills which I hadn't used in many years, but that was no problem.  I installed my wiring before SON's coaxial was available (AFAIK).  Its relatively short length (21cms) would require additional connectors in any case.

Title: Re: Best bicycle component you ever bought?
Post by: Andre Jute on August 30, 2020, 01:46:12 am

The spread of extra resistance of all the modern hub dynamos would probably fit into an ascent of a loot per mile of forward motion, in short a negligible quantity.
I know we live in lawless times, so I leave the bike at home when I go looting.

Ha! I'll refrain from correcting it to my intention, which was not loot but foot, so your joke makes sense. The spellchecker strafed me again.

I dislike the fiddly SON spade connectors and prefer the Shimano model. To make the SON's tiny spades palatable, I've made a junction higher up the wire, similar to the photo John published a few posts above, complete with drip loop a la Dan, so that the lowest bit of the wire stays with the SON when the wheel needs to be removed.

And yes, I agree, the SON is definitely bright bling, but there's no reason, except good taste, you couldn't polish a Shimano hub generator yourself.
Title: Re: Best bicycle component you ever bought?
Post by: PH on August 30, 2020, 09:27:52 am

I dislike the fiddly SON spade connectors and prefer the Shimano model. To make the SON's tiny spades palatable, I've made a junction higher up the wire, similar to the photo John published a few posts above, complete with drip loop a la Dan, so that the lowest bit of the wire stays with the SON when the wheel needs to be removed.
My latest Edelux light has the jack plug do dah, it's the neatest and simplest of all the hub fittings, not that I ever had problems with the spade connectors.  I've never given it much thought, none of them are difficult, maybe if I was removing the front wheel often I'd give it more consideration, but I might only do so a couple of times a year (Cue long run of front punctures...)
Quote
And yes, I agree, the SON is definitely bright bling, but there's no reason, except good taste, you couldn't polish a Shimano hub generator yourself.

You'd have to remove the anodising first, a job I've done once on some cranks and never intend doing again. 
I'm disappointed that Rohloff have moved to anodising rather than polishing, I understand some people don't like the extra job but there's something very satisfying about polishing a dull hub back up to a perfect shine.
Title: Re: Best bicycle component you ever bought?
Post by: Pavel on September 02, 2020, 08:01:43 pm
The spade connectors are so simple, strong and robust ... why introduce another plastic gizmo point of failure?  And the instructions are simple.  Pull off.  Push on. Even a recent US high school graduate may be able to follow those.  Maybe.
Title: Re: Best bicycle component you ever bought?
Post by: PH on September 02, 2020, 10:04:19 pm
The spade connectors are so simple, strong and robust ... why introduce another plastic gizmo point of failure?  And the instructions are simple.  Pull off.  Push on. Even a recent US high school graduate may be able to follow those.  Maybe.
There speaks someone who has probably never tried reconnecting at 3am, 300km into an audax, in the sleet, half way up an Welsh mountain...
Me neither, but it could happen...
Title: Re: Best bicycle component you ever bought?
Post by: Andre Jute on September 03, 2020, 12:09:15 am
There speaks someone who has probably never tried reconnecting at 3am, 300km into an audax, in the sleet, half way up an Welsh mountain...
Me neither, but it could happen...

Even in broad daylight, with my bike up on a stand, I can't get my fingers in there, and so use needle nose pliers, which do awful things to the insulation around the slides, and even to the metal slides. It's a miserably fiddly design that Andreas Oehler, who is at least a cyclist, should have nixed. At the very least, if you insist on using a stupid-light design on a touring bike, pull it from an auto parts bin, not some miniature dolls-house size that nobody can find in a town with several auto supply houses.
Title: Re: Best bicycle component you ever bought?
Post by: leftpoole on September 03, 2020, 10:37:54 am
There speaks someone who has probably never tried reconnecting at 3am, 300km into an audax, in the sleet, half way up an Welsh mountain...
Me neither, but it could happen...

Even in broad daylight, with my bike up on a stand, I can't get my fingers in there, and so use needle nose pliers, which do awful things to the insulation around the slides, and even to the metal slides. It's a miserably fiddly design that Andreas Oehler, who is at least a cyclist, should have nixed. At the very least, if you insist on using a stupid-light design on a touring bike, pull it from an auto parts bin, not some miniature dolls-house size that nobody can find in a town with several auto supply houses.

 ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Best bicycle component you ever bought?
Post by: Pavel on September 03, 2020, 04:58:06 pm
The spade connectors are so simple, strong and robust ... why introduce another plastic gizmo point of failure?  And the instructions are simple.  Pull off.  Push on. Even a recent US high school graduate may be able to follow those.  Maybe.
There speaks someone who has probably never tried reconnecting at 3am, 300km into an audax, in the sleet, half way up an Welsh mountain...
Me neither, but it could happen...

You are right on that score. Of course on the other hand, if you or anyone else here will provide the ticket to Wales, a new bike with the dreaded spade connectors on the new silver polished Disk brake ready Dyno, and a few pints after - I'm up to the challenge, FREE of any testing charges. Yes, I'm selfless that way. So sign me up for the next Welsh peddle assist 315km Audax.