Thorn Cycles Forum

Technical => Wheels, Tyres and Brakes => Topic started by: Matt2matt2002 on June 17, 2019, 07:18:39 PM

Title: A new front wheel
Post by: Matt2matt2002 on June 17, 2019, 07:18:39 PM
The CSS rim on my Raven has really worn away. It's on my second hand Raven so no idea of total.milage.
With compatable pads and ' normal' pads there is a terrible squeel.
Any way. After living with it for 6+ months I've decide to splash the cash for a new one.
I'm considering;
https://www.sjscycles.co.uk/wheelswheels-front/26-559-front-wheel-32h-andra-30-black-rim-with-shimano-deore-black-hub/

Any thoughts or opinions?
Title: Re: A new front wheel
Post by: geocycle on June 17, 2019, 08:15:47 PM
Good wheel for touring. The Andra is a bit heavier than the grizzly but should work well.  How about adding a dynamo Hub?
Title: Re: A new front wheel
Post by: Matt2matt2002 on June 17, 2019, 08:24:22 PM
Thanks for your opinion on the wheel.

I have a dynamo on the wheel at the moment. But have never had the urge to use it. Yes, heresy, I know.
But even on my 4 tours abroad I've never felt the need.
Title: Re: A new front wheel
Post by: PH on June 17, 2019, 09:12:59 PM
Ni opinion on the wheel, but I'd be interested to see photos of your worn CSS rim.  I was under the impression that it wasn't a coating and worn away would mean worn through.
Title: Re: A new front wheel
Post by: Matt2matt2002 on June 17, 2019, 11:31:07 PM
Ni opinion on the wheel, but I'd be interested to see photos of your worn CSS rim.  I was under the impression that it wasn't a coating and worn away would mean worn through.

I'll try and put a few up later. I sent a few to Dan awhile ago, and he thought it very worn.
Title: Re: A new front wheel
Post by: Matt2matt2002 on June 18, 2019, 09:54:25 AM
Does this work?
https://apis.mail.yahoo.com/ws/v3/mailboxes/@.id==VjN-6jK8JfFHzKbGvL1S1ABGj1IPdTVUwV5-zG6rTDDVFw7gzaVBtoQW4miyyIUZ6LuqHmbFDuF8rGRsJKFHidhF4w/messages/@.id==ADpKZR1-8kGgXQimawr4mGaSAEU/content/parts/@.id==2/thumbnail?appId=YahooMailBasic&downloadWhenThumbnailFails=true&pid=2

The surface feels very smooth. Not rough in any way. A metal ruler reveals an inward curve.
I have tried different brake pads as well as toe-ing them in and out. The squeal is driving me nuts.
Given I myself have done 20,000 miles on the rim and it is probably years 11 years old ( Hubs with number similar to mine were put onto bikes in 2008 )- I'll be buying a new wheel shortly.




Title: Re: A new front wheel
Post by: martinf on June 18, 2019, 06:47:44 PM
AFAIK CSS rims have been discontinued. So if you're not into hub generators and are happy with the braking on CSS rims, I reckon you should get this wheel whilst it is still available.

I am happy with the braking on CSS rims, it has worked OK for me so far, including fully loaded on steep descents in heavy rain recently.

But I do prefer hub generators. Fortunately I am nowhere near wearing out my rims.
Title: Re: A new front wheel
Post by: PH on June 19, 2019, 12:23:46 AM
Does this work?
...
Not for me, but thanks for trying.
If they're showing enough wear to consider them worn out, that's it.  I was just interested in seeing the failure mode if one was visible.
Not just idle curiosity, I have three CSS wheels, all very smooth, the most used is a front dynamo wheel which has done at least 20,000 miles.  The other two are around half of that.
Title: Re: A new front wheel
Post by: macspud on June 19, 2019, 07:38:26 AM
I too would be interested to see what a worn CSS rim looks like, Matt. Unfortunately your link doesn't show anything.

Your current rim is an Andra 30 CSS. Andybg reckoned your bike had less than a thousand miles on it when you bought it. 

The wheel in your link is the same rim minus the CSS https://www.sjscycles.co.uk/wheelswheels-front/26-559-front-wheel-32h-andra-30-black-rim-with-shimano-deore-black-hub/ cost £84.99, if you were to order a wheel build of the exact same wheel it would cost £93.02 so a saving of £8.
Title: Re: A new front wheel
Post by: Matt2matt2002 on June 19, 2019, 11:55:00 AM
This one work?
Title: Re: A new front wheel
Post by: Dave Whittle Thorn Workshop on June 19, 2019, 11:55:36 AM
Have you tried Kool Stop Salmon pads?
Title: Re: A new front wheel
Post by: Matt2matt2002 on June 19, 2019, 01:00:36 PM
Have you tried Kool Stop Salmon pads?7
Not those. Thanks for suggesting them.
Given the amount of wear on the Rim I think I'll buy a new wheel.
Title: Re: A new front wheel
Post by: rualexander on June 19, 2019, 06:35:52 PM
This one work?

Doesn't look badly worn, can still see the textured surface from the manufacturing machining.
Title: Re: A new front wheel
Post by: Matt2matt2002 on June 19, 2019, 07:19:50 PM
This one work?

Doesn't look badly worn, can still see the textured surface from the manufacturing machining.

So why the squealing? Old and new pads, Swiss Blue and ordinary. All angels of pad against rim tried.
Wet and dry weather.
And the squealing continues.
Only thing not tried is Kool Stop Salmon.
As for not being worn; the rims curve inwards .
Maybe they come that way?
Title: Re: A new front wheel
Post by: Matt2matt2002 on June 19, 2019, 09:50:47 PM
Have you tried Kool Stop Salmon pads?7
Not those. Thanks for suggesting them.
Given the amount of wear on the Rim I think I'll buy a new wheel.

Second thoughts; thanks Dave. I'll order a set. Appreciate your advice.
Matt
Title: Re: A new front wheel
Post by: PH on June 19, 2019, 11:57:19 PM
Thanks for the photo. 
First - if you consider a rim too worn to use, don't use it. simple.
However - all three of mine look smoother than that!
The picture of the Ryde Andra on the SJS website shows it has a wear indicator, or rather it's a worn out indicator.  It's the sort where one section of the extrusion is deliberately thinner than the rest, when it's worn you see a line appear, easier to see it than explain
https://www.sjscycles.co.uk/rims-tape/rigida-andra-30-26-559-mtb-css-rim-regular-drilling-black-32-hole/

I've worn out a Sputnik that had the same thing, the rim is still solid when the indicator is visible.  I'm assuming they've always been like that. but it's maybe something you can find out. If you google for images for "Rigida rim wear" you'll get some good photos of what to look out for.
I'm not convinced a squealing brake is a good sign of a worn rim, mine frequently do, even when new.  I use Swisstop Salmon or BB Tristop pads, neither are cheap, but they last reasonably well, they may reduce squealing, I buy them for the superior braking.  The front with a V brake sometimes squeals, it need a fair bit of toe in and sometimes adjusting mid wear.  The front and rear with canti brakes never squeal, though there's lots of factors other than the brakes. 

Then - clean you rim! I mean properly, give it a scrub with something fairly abrasive, your rim is likely to get a coating of brake block which certainly won't help.
Title: Re: A new front wheel
Post by: Matt2matt2002 on June 22, 2019, 07:40:25 PM
The Swiss top Salmon appear to have done the trick!
I placed and order with SJS for them and some oil.
Excellent first class delivery.
Fitted today and no squealing plus excellent braking.

I feel as if I'm riding a new bike.

Plus, following Dan's advice, I cured the low intermittent click from around the EBB area.
Very elusive. Came and went under a whole variety of situations.

Turned out to be the bolts holding the front sprocket were very slightly loose. Not all of them and only a fraction turn. But it did the trick.
Silent riding. Perfect.
Thanks folks.
Title: Re: A new front wheel
Post by: geocycle on June 23, 2019, 10:41:22 AM
The Swiss top Salmon appear to have done the trick!
I placed and order with SJS for them and some oil.
Excellent first class delivery.
Fitted today and no squealing plus excellent braking.

I feel as if I'm riding a new bike.

Plus, following Dan's advice, I cured the low intermittent click from around the EBB area.
Very elusive. Came and went under a whole variety of situations.

Turned out to be the bolts holding the front sprocket were very slightly loose. Not all of them and only a fraction turn. But it did the trick.
Silent riding. Perfect.
Thanks folks.

I think thatís a good call on the wheel Matt. In hindsight I changed a set of CSS rims too early which looked very similar to your picture. I now have CSS on the back and a squealing non CSS on the front. I wish Iíd have stuck with CSS on both. Iíll not be changing the rear until I see a wear indicator or it splays outward.
Title: Re: A new front wheel
Post by: Matt2matt2002 on June 23, 2019, 11:24:07 AM
The Swiss top Salmon appear to have done the trick!
I placed and order with SJS for them and some oil.
Excellent first class delivery.
Fitted today and no squealing plus excellent braking.

I feel as if I'm riding a new bike.

Plus, following Dan's advice, I cured the low intermittent click from around the EBB area.
Very elusive. Came and went under a whole variety of situations.

Turned out to be the bolts holding the front sprocket were very slightly loose. Not all of them and only a fraction turn. But it did the trick.
Silent riding. Perfect.
Thanks folks.

I think thatís a good call on the wheel Matt. In hindsight I changed a set of CSS rims too early which looked very similar to your picture. I now have CSS on the back and a squealing non CSS on the front. I wish Iíd have stuck with CSS on both. Iíll not be changing the rear until I see a wear indicator or it splays outward.
Thanks geocycle.
Any idea why your front wheel squeals now?
What rim and pads?

Re my rear (CSS Rim) I'm using the Swiss top blue.
Braking is ok but not sharp.
I'm so impressed with the Salmon on the front, I'll be ordering a pair for the rear.
Title: Re: A new front wheel
Post by: geocycle on June 23, 2019, 01:33:19 PM
The new front is a non CSS grizzly with some cheap soft v brake inserts. I might follow you down the salmon route next time I need some.
Title: Re: A new front wheel
Post by: John Saxby on June 24, 2019, 02:09:26 PM
Koolstop salmon pads rule, guys. 

Accept no substitutes ;)
Title: Re: A new front wheel
Post by: PH on June 27, 2019, 12:58:15 AM
Koolstop salmon pads rule, guys. 

Accept no substitutes ;)
Have you tried the BBB Tristops?
I've found them to be just as good ;)