Thorn Cycles Forum

Community => Thorn General => Topic started by: Dave Whittle Thorn Workshop on May 09, 2019, 11:50:05 am

Title: Kickstand on a Nomad or a Raven anyone?
Post by: Dave Whittle Thorn Workshop on May 09, 2019, 11:50:05 am
See the link below, this part will work on any Thorn Nomad or Raven with the Thorn Rohloff dropouts.  It only works with a KS18 ESGE stand.

https://www.sjscycles.co.uk/gear-spares/thorn-dropout-adaptor-with-kickstand-mount-18-mm/

This WONT void your Thorn frame warranty, many of our reservations still apply, you could break this adaptor or the stand if overloaded, but importantly this wont damage the bike frames integrity in any way!

Adaptor is £39.99, stand £14.99.  If you call me 01278 441505 as a limited offer until 31/05/19 you can have free UK mainland postage.

See we do listen, its just these things take time to come up with workable solutions, prototype, testing, and final production! 

(https://www.sjscycles.co.uk/images/products/medium/49687_1.jpg)

[Topic made sticky for reference. - Dan.]
Title: Re: Kickstand on a Nomad or a Raven anyone?
Post by: julk on May 09, 2019, 12:51:17 pm
Dave,
not promising to buy one, but
I have tapped the bolt holes from 5mm to 6mm in the rear dropouts on my Rohloff expR.
Would this kickstand adapter cope with 6mm bolts and possibly need some work to get them in?
Julian.
Title: Re: Kickstand on a Nomad or a Raven anyone?
Post by: Dave Whittle Thorn Workshop on May 09, 2019, 01:42:04 pm
Quote
I have tapped the bolt holes from 5mm to 6mm in the rear dropouts on my Rohloff expR.
Would this kickstand adapter cope with 6mm bolts and possibly need some work to get them in?
Julian.

You would have to drill the two fixing holes out, the one top left in the picture might be a bit close to the edge... worth a shot though.

(https://www.sjscycles.co.uk/images/products/medium/49687.jpg)
Title: Re: Kickstand on a Nomad or a Raven anyone?
Post by: julk on May 09, 2019, 04:27:36 pm
Dave,
many thanks for the fast reply.
Julian.

Title: Re: Kickstand on a Nomad or a Raven anyone?
Post by: mickeg on May 09, 2019, 09:57:39 pm
If any of you install a rear mounted kickstand like that, one thing to keep in mind.  If the front wheel is allowed to roll and if the rear of the bike rolls forwards, the bike can roll off of the kickstand as the kickstand folds  up.  It is worst if the front wheel is turned to the right because then the left side of the bike can move farther than the right side.

If on flat ground, not an issue, but if on sloping ground it can be an issue.

I have tried a variety of things to act as a parking brake for my front wheel.  One thing I have tried is those elastic bands that some women use to bundle up their hair, the wider bands can have enough strength to hold the brake lever against the handlebar, but it does not grip it tightly, only a small help.  Those bands are big enough that I double it on the handlebar for storage.

I have also used a velcro strap, see first photo.

A friend of mine cut a piece of inner tube to function as a band, but I never could quite get it right.

One time near a bike stand I saw a piece of elastic on the ground, picked it up and it was sewn to work perfectly for that purpose.  It is stored on the right side of my handlebar in the second photo.

You do not think it will happen, until it does.  So, when you park the bike, think about the potential for the front wheel to roll.

Even if your rear wheel is locked so that it does not turn, if the front wheel is perpendicular to the rear wheel, the front of the bike could roll to the right and the kickstand can still fold up.

If any of you have used a Clickstand, you already have practice in locking your front wheel.
Title: Re: Kickstand on a Nomad or a Raven anyone?
Post by: Danneaux on May 12, 2019, 12:04:10 am
Quote
I have tried a variety of things to act as a parking brake for my front wheel.
George,

For the last decade or so, I have use BikeBrake bands to hold my brake levers shut. I usually have two sets on my bikes...one for the interrupter levers along the tops of my drop handlebars and another for the regular brake levers on the drops themselves (I use either, not both; the second set is just a matter of convenience and redundancy). They've not stretched in all this time, nor have they degraded or cracked from the high UV levels I've exposed them to in my desert tours. They stay stored nicely in place on the handlebars till you need them, then are easy to pluck off by grasping the little tabs molded into one side. They are really strong and secure and grip the levers tightly resulting in some real braking of the stationary rims. They are available in various colors to mix or match as desired: https://bikebrake.com/

Best,

Dan.
Title: Re: Kickstand on a Nomad or a Raven anyone?
Post by: Smiffy on May 12, 2019, 02:29:12 pm
Dan , that’s such a good idea, I googled BikeBrake, but unfortunately they don’t appear to market them in the UK.
Title: Re: Kickstand on a Nomad or a Raven anyone?
Post by: lewis noble on May 12, 2019, 06:01:23 pm
I had a look too, Smiffy . . .  no actual outlets, but can be mailed from US by look of website??  Though cost starts going up . . .
Lewis
Title: Re: Kickstand on a Nomad or a Raven anyone?
Post by: StuntPilot on May 13, 2019, 11:10:56 am
When you buy a click-stand you are supplied with some bike-brakes which are small loops of elastic chord with a plastic closure. Scroll down here to see a picture ...

http://www.click-stand.com/products-and-ordering.html

I have been using them for years and they last a long time. You could make your own with there plastic closures and some good quality 3-4mm elastic chord and these clips ...

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Black-Zip-Zipper-Loop-Cord-end-Lock-Elastic-Shock-Bungee-Rope-For-3-4mm-New/222622147085?var=521466154653&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIM.MBE%26ao%3D2%26asc%3D20160323102634%26meid%3D883e5742bbdf41b089f15d169a8e9dde%26pid%3D100623%26rk%3D4%26rkt%3D6%26sd%3D331036858391%26itm%3D521466154653&_trksid=p2047675.c100623.m-1
Title: Re: Kickstand on a Nomad or a Raven anyone?
Post by: Oggi on May 13, 2019, 11:27:02 am
I made my own “clickstand” with an old tent pole which uses the same grade of tubing. I used a bungee cord from the same tent as a brake elastic. It stores along the top tube using the Velcro that holds my pump. It locates under the nose of my saddle when holding the bike upright. I used an old (found) walking pole rubber end stuck on with sugru.
Title: Re: Kickstand on a Nomad or a Raven anyone?
Post by: mickeg on May 13, 2019, 06:21:02 pm
I mentioned above that I often use hair elastic bands, these are the ones I use.  But this store only exists in USA.  In the store, a ten pack is one US dollar.  The fat ones like in the photo work best. 
https://www.dollartree.com/basic-solutions-jumbo-clasp-free-elastics/25318

I am sure you can find similar products elsewhere. 

I wrap it around the handlebar twice, it is too big to stay stored on the bar if I do not double it.  Depending on how tight my cables are, sometimes I have to double it over the brake lever but if the lever is farther from the bar then only once over the brake lever.  But it does not make the brake REALLY tight, so if the ground has quite a slope, I put the bike somewhere else. It is best for ground that has very little slope.

I suspect that most of the time when I use it on a tour is when I stop to take a photo, I am still standing over the bike, kickstand up, but the front wheel wants to roll to the side so I try to lock the front wheel so I can take the photo without keeping one hand on the bike.

It is not a good photo, a black elastic band over the brake lever with a black handlebar bag in the background, but you get the idea.  This is on my folding bike, I use a bit of tent pole to prop up my bike like a clickstand.  The band is wrapped twice around the handlebar but only once around the brake lever, I store it on the handlebar when not in use.

Disregard that part of the brake lever is black, I have wrapped the brake levers on a couple of my bikes with the old fashioned cloth handlebar tape that was commonly used several decades ago to give better grip when wet and to make it feel better when it is really cold outside.
Title: Re: Kickstand on a Nomad or a Raven anyone?
Post by: energyman on May 13, 2019, 09:41:41 pm
I use a bit of Velcro, works wonders.
(Other Hook & loop type things are available !)
Title: Re: Kickstand on a Nomad or a Raven anyone?
Post by: energyman on May 13, 2019, 09:43:04 pm
I use a bit of Velcro, works wonders.
(Other Hook & loop type things are available !)

Oh I forgot - Click Stands rule OK !!
Title: Re: Kickstand on a Nomad or a Raven anyone?
Post by: John Saxby on May 14, 2019, 02:02:20 am
+1 for the Bike Brakes which Dan mentioned. In my experience, they're the best purpose-built brake-lever locks which live on the handlebar. (I found the ones which came with my click-stand didn't work so well.)

Two problems with the Bike Brakes:
>   they are susceptible to UV rays.  I've found that they degrade over a couple a couple of seasons.  So, if you buy them, buy several at a time.
>   they do only one thing, even though they do it very well indeed.  You can't use them for anything else.  (In that sense, they're a bit like Sidi cycling shoes, shod with Look/keo cleats.)

As a backup/alternative, I use these 4" QR rubber ties, which I've praised elsewhere on this forum:
http://www.leevalley.com/en/garden/page.aspx?p=65393&cat=2,43319,33283 (http://www.leevalley.com/en/garden/page.aspx?p=65393&cat=2,43319,33283) Wrap the tie twice around the bar and the lever, hook with the crescent-shaped "anchor", and voilà!  These things have multiple uses, cost but 25¢ each, and last indefinitely, so far as I can see.
Title: Re: Kickstand on a Nomad or a Raven anyone?
Post by: Dave Whittle Thorn Workshop on June 21, 2019, 09:14:15 am
https://www.sjscycles.co.uk/bike-brake/ 

https://www.sjscycles.co.uk/brakes/jtek-brakebands-per-pair/

 ;)
Title: Re: Kickstand on a Nomad or a Raven anyone?
Post by: il padrone on November 14, 2020, 08:13:25 am
I have been using the Pletscher Multizoom for ten years now on the Thorn Nomad Mk2. I broke one once (heavily loaded bike on an outback tour) in 2012, but know a bit more about how to care for it in use. Current one is 8 years old and supports the fully loaded bike very nicely.
Title: Re: Kickstand on a Nomad or a Raven anyone?
Post by: Richemm on July 06, 2021, 02:09:20 pm
I bought one of these. On the plus side it is a lovely piece of engineering all the holes in the right place. It's expensive but I can understand that. It's pretty specialised and there can't be too many takers. And yet I am totally baffled how it actually fits in with a rear rack and mudguards without the whole lot being thrown off centre. It would be interesting to see what you have done on the other side of the hub after fitting the adapter. It basically is a ca. 15mm spacer with the hole to fix the rack in moved a bit to the south east. That is enough to put the whole rack at an angle. Unless, unless we are supposed to but one for each side? Am I missing something or is this not really worth the time or the money.

Yes I've read all the recommendations about not fitting kickstands to Thorn bikes but where I live a kicks stand on a bike is de rigueur. All the bikes at in the cycle store at work are lined up supported by their kick stands. If you have to take up wall space for your bike you are something of a social pariah  ;).
Title: Re: Kickstand on a Nomad or a Raven anyone?
Post by: mickeg on July 06, 2021, 04:28:58 pm
I bought one of these. ...

And yet I am totally baffled how it actually fits in with a rear rack and mudguards without the whole lot being thrown off centre. It would be interesting to see what you have done on the other side of the hub after fitting the adapter.
...

I am not exactly clear on what you have and what the problem is.  But I am guessing that you bought this:
https://www.sjscycles.co.uk/gear-spares/thorn-dropout-adaptor-with-kickstand-mount-18-mm/

And I am guessing you do not have anything on the otherside that looks like that, but instead have a couple M5 threaded holes that do not line up for mounting a rack.

The first photo attached is from the rear of my Nomad Mk II.  When I took the photo I did not have any mudguards fitted.  Note the stainless steel thing in between the rack and the frame dropoout on the drive side.  It is basically the same as the kickstand adapter, but without the arm that the kickstand attaches to.  You should have one of those, if you do not then I can see your difficulty in mounting a rack.

The second photo attached shows the same thing but from a different perspective, my bike is upside down in this case.  Again you can see the stainless steel fitting between the frame and rack dropout.  And, you can see that on the inside of the dropout between the frame and hub sprocket, that one of the bolts that holds that stainless fitting to the frame is longer and has a nut threaded on it, that nut is between the sprocket and frame.  If I was running mudguards, I would have attached the stays for the mudguards on that bolt using that nut.  The bolt must be short enough that it does not get too close to the sprocket.

Third photo shows my Nomad Mk II with mudguards attached and you can see how I attached a rack and mudguards.  If the photo looks odd, it is winter, studded tires on the bike, ice on the ground, and the bike was less than a year old so it was unusually clean.  This website might have that photo rotated sideways on your screen.

I am not using the Thorn kickstand adapter, I am using something else to mount my kickstand, so do not let that confuse you.

Title: Re: Kickstand on a Nomad or a Raven anyone?
Post by: Richemm on July 07, 2021, 06:29:27 pm
Thanks for taking the time to reply and post those photos which I am looking at carefully.  The adapter I was writing about is exactly the thorn dropout adapter with kickstand mount. Now I am wondering where I would get the type of stainless steel fitting that you have. I guess this is what I need (obvious really):

https://www.sjscycles.co.uk/carriers-racks/thorn-for-rohloff-cast-end-2-x-m5-to-1-x-m6-stainless-dropout-adaptors/?geoc=SE

Would have been a big help to know about the need for this when buying the kickstand mount especially as I'm ordering from the EU now which is not plain sailing.  Possibly something they could add to the blurb on the website (assuming its the right solution).

Thanks again. Much appreciated.
Title: Re: Kickstand on a Nomad or a Raven anyone?
Post by: mickeg on July 07, 2021, 09:38:10 pm
Yeah, there are two versions:
https://www.sjscycles.co.uk/carriers-racks/thorn-for-cast-end-2-x-m5-to-1-x-m6-stainless-dropout-adaptors-mk2
https://www.sjscycles.co.uk/carriers-racks/thorn-for-rohloff-cast-end-2-x-m5-to-1-x-m6-stainless-dropout-adaptors/

It might be a good idea to contact SJS with your bike model and serial number and verify which version you should buy, but I suspect you can buy the one on sale price.

They should advise that you need one of these if you use the kickstand adapter and also use a rack.

I built up my frame in 2013, the Thorn kickstand adapters were not available at that time.
Title: Re: Kickstand on a Nomad or a Raven anyone?
Post by: il padrone on July 08, 2021, 09:44:35 am
Good lord! I know the idea of that is to take the load off the chainstay & seat stay but I would really be much more concerned about the risk of breaking your rack mounting bolt on a regular basis. Not an ideal solution in my mind.

(https://www.sjscycles.co.uk/images/products/medium/49687_1.jpg)

It would be MUCH better if Thorn would build a two-bolt stand mount onto the Nomad frame (and others) just like so many top-quality European touring bike manufacturers do.

[edit] OK, now I see that it is a 5mm to 6mm conversion plate. Still, my final comment applies. Just do it, Thorn!
Title: Re: Kickstand on a Nomad or a Raven anyone?
Post by: steve216c on July 08, 2021, 10:47:11 am
... especially as I'm ordering from the EU now which is not plain sailing.  Possibly something they could add to the blurb on the website (assuming its the right solution).

Thanks again. Much appreciated.

If you are ordering from the EU, I've ordered from Starbike a few times.

Not Thorn specific stands, but they have a selection of kickstands that might work for some set ups and where you don't want to fuss with the import faff from those newly exited ex EU countries in Europe.

=52]https://www.starbike.com/en/search/?q=stand&cid[]=52 (https://www.starbike.com/en/search/?q=stand&cid[)

And I feel your pain on 'parking correctly' on the continent. My eldest son sees me as a social pariah when I don't use my kick stand. I curse every morning when I get my bike out if he was the last in the bike shed as he insists on standing his bike on its stand and then does mine too. With a narrow storage space and a door with 90 degree turn to reverse out of, the extra 40cm he took up standing them rather than leaning create a royal pain of a job to get mine out without first undoing all his OCD bike stand effords. That is when he outs himself as a German dominant dual national and less of a Brit dominant like his brother and sister  :o

I do love my and use stand at other times. Just not in the bike shed.
Title: Re: Kickstand on a Nomad or a Raven anyone?
Post by: John Saxby on July 08, 2021, 02:38:30 pm
Ummmm...  Keep it simple'n'light is my advice:

One of these, 5-segment preferred: http://www.click-stand.com/
 (http://www.click-stand.com/)

And several of these:  https://bikebrake.com/ (https://bikebrake.com/)

Cheers,  J.
Title: Re: Kickstand on a Nomad or a Raven anyone?
Post by: steve216c on July 08, 2021, 04:32:03 pm
Ummmm...  Keep it simple'n'light is my advice:

One of these, 5-segment preferred: http://www.click-stand.com/
 (http://www.click-stand.com/)

And several of these:  https://bikebrake.com/ (https://bikebrake.com/)

Cheers,  J.

What a clever reinvention and marketing of what looks much like a fishing rod support and rubber bands. But if it works... why not?
Personally, the 'always attached' kickstand suits me better, but I'm usually carrying nothing more than an Ortlieb with my lunch, mini tool kit and a change of clothes as predominantly using my bike as my means to commute or at a push a day trip. But if you were touring with a full complement of supplies weighing in on your bike, that solution might well be more effective.
Title: Re: Kickstand on a Nomad or a Raven anyone?
Post by: John Saxby on July 08, 2021, 08:12:51 pm
Thanks, Steve.

I use my Click-stand mostly when touring, but the Bike-Brakes stay on my bars & I use them all the time.

The Click-stand is also v handy when cleaning chains & cogsets on my derailleur bikes: allows me to cant the bike over to the right, so that none of the chain cleaner-and-crud spills onto the rear rim & tire.

The five-segment Clickstand folds up to fit nicely within an Arkel handlebar bag; my  four-segment one I just fold in half & tuck into one side of my Revelate framebag.
Title: Re: Kickstand on a Nomad or a Raven anyone?
Post by: mickeg on July 08, 2021, 10:36:47 pm
I really prefer a real kickstand like I use on my Nomad Mk II and on my Sherpa.  I was not aware in 2013 when I built up my Nomad that Thorn was opposed to a side stand like the Greenfield that I use, I have also used one on my Sherpa since 2010.  But I think that the warranty on those ran out before I saw on this forum that Thorn says that using one can negate your warranty.

I have a home made stand similar to the Clickstand that I use on my titanium bike and another that I use on my folding bike.  But I am hesitant to use a Greenfield sidestand on the titanium stays.  And such a stand does not fit properly on my folding bike.



Title: Re: Kickstand on a Nomad or a Raven anyone?
Post by: il padrone on July 09, 2021, 03:48:39 am
Ummmm...  Keep it simple'n'light is my advice:

One of these, 5-segment preferred: http://www.click-stand.com/
 (http://www.click-stand.com/)

But if it works... why not?

Mostly, it does NOT, with a fully-loaded touring bike. Friend of mine has tried the clickstand, and broken them twice. They simply do not take the load of a bike with 30+ kgs of camping gears.
Title: Re: Kickstand on a Nomad or a Raven anyone?
Post by: il padrone on July 09, 2021, 03:58:30 am
This DID work for me, for a couple of weeks on tour. An emergency solution.

(https://scontent.fmel8-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/203631412_10158745804821107_8161158180300492525_n.jpg?_nc_cat=108&ccb=1-3&_nc_sid=825194&_nc_ohc=hYTwYFJcS2QAX9BqoR0&_nc_ht=scontent.fmel8-1.fna&oh=d5b739c922a469973d28b3974efc6b86&oe=60ED6D8C)
Title: Re: Kickstand on a Nomad or a Raven anyone?
Post by: steve216c on July 09, 2021, 11:40:08 am
@ il padrone - that is the swiss army knife of bike stands you just invented. It is nore than just a stand. Need an implement to keep wild animals at bay? It doubles as a club. Get a ball, an impromptu alternative for cricket bat. Attach upwardly to your rear paniers with a bright t-shirt afixed to the top and you have a hi-vis flag & pole to help you be noticed in traffic. Connect some string and tie other end to a tree and you have a clothes line. Need a cuppa at the end of a long ride- and you'll have your firewood too.

So where can you get this multipurpose bike accessory? I've heard trees have them in stock. They have branches all over the world, so we can all get one soon.
 ;D
Title: Re: Kickstand on a Nomad or a Raven anyone?
Post by: KDean on January 31, 2022, 09:52:58 am
Is this adaptor for the MK3 only ?
I have a MK2 Nomad
Title: Re: Kickstand on a Nomad or a Raven anyone?
Post by: mickeg on January 31, 2022, 02:06:52 pm
Is this adaptor for the MK3 only ?
I have a MK2 Nomad

If you are talking about the item cited in the first post on this thread, some of that here:

See the link below, this part will work on any Thorn Nomad or Raven with the Thorn Rohloff dropouts.  It only works with a KS18 ESGE stand.

https://www.sjscycles.co.uk/gear-spares/thorn-dropout-adaptor-with-kickstand-mount-18-mm/
...

Then, that post is before the Mk III existed, should work fine on your Mk II.

Do you have those M5 to M6 adapters on your Nomad?  Look like these?
https://www.sjscycles.co.uk/carriers-racks/thorn-for-rohloff-cast-end-2-x-m5-to-1-x-m6-stainless-dropout-adaptors/

The kickstand adapter is basically one of those M5 to M6 adapters but has a bar on it to attach to the kickstand.


Title: Re: Kickstand on a Nomad or a Raven anyone?
Post by: JohnR on January 31, 2022, 03:39:13 pm
A low-cost and lightweight alternative if the bike isn't heavily loaded is https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B08T187GPX (effectively a Chinese version of https://upstandingbicycle.com/shop/the-upstand/. The description says "Suitable for 26/27.5inch mountain bike & 700C wheel road bike". However, I found that the provided length is fine for my Mercury with 50mm 650B tyres but is short for my new bike with 38mm 700C tyres resulting in the bike leaning more than looked prudent. I rectified this by making a 10mm insert (piece of tube with a slot down one side) to go between the two halves. I don't bother with folding it and just clip it into the provided carrier which I fitted on the side of the seat tube.
Title: Re: Kickstand on a Nomad or a Raven anyone?
Post by: KDean on August 06, 2022, 12:55:56 pm
I've just bought the   Dropout Adaptor with kickstand mount & the recommended Pletscher  kick stand & the bolts are too narrow .If SJS know this why not provide the correct bolts ? What a waste of time .
Title: Re: Kickstand on a Nomad or a Raven anyone?
Post by: spoof on August 06, 2022, 02:57:12 pm
I've just bought the   Dropout Adaptor with kickstand mount & the recommended Pletscher  kick stand & the bolts are too narrow .If SJS know this why not provide the correct bolts ? What a waste of time .
Trust me even if the correct size was supplied, the spring action of the kickstand engaging and dis-engaging causes vibration to resonate down from the locating bar of the bracket and causes the bracket bolts to the bicycle frame to work loose, and quite quickly I found. That was with thread-locked blue bolts.
What you need is to purchase is 2xM5 that are just so slightly longer (I recall either 20mm can't remember off top my head), screw in the bracket and back on from the other side of the dropout area some 2xM5 washer and 2xNylon insert Lock nuts. Problem solved the above nuisance.
Do the same with the 2xM6 bolts as well that hold the kickstand to the bar, just so slightly longer and back on washer and locknut from other side.

Hope this helps  :)
Title: Re: Kickstand on a Nomad or a Raven anyone?
Post by: il padrone on October 08, 2022, 02:40:10 am
I have been using a standard Pletscher Multi-zoom rear-mount side-stand on my Thorn Nomad Mk2 for the past 12 years, despite Thorn's insistence that it will break the frame. All working just fine for me. One time I did break the stand, due to a heavy load on an outback tour and my own poor packing of the pannier (pro-tip - always pack the panniers OFF the bike them fit to the rack). However since replacing that side-stand with the same, I have had 10 years of trouble-free touring, using the stand all the time for parking my bike.