Thorn Cycles Forum
Technical => Transmission => Topic started by: jul on February 16, 2019, 10:16:46 pm
-
As you can see on the pics one sprocket is new and other is well worn (around 16000 kms).
But i'm planning to ride again with the used one and it is for that reason it don't want to change my chain by a new one (usually i replace chains every 5000 kms), i think it is no longer necessary.
Until which limit it is better to replace the sprocket ?
(https://i93.servimg.com/u/f93/19/07/93/69/th/p1150810.jpg) (https://servimg.com/view/19079369/256)
-
A new chain would not be compatible with that worn sprocket. I would continue to use the old chain and sprocket until you have problems of the chain falling off, then I’d change both together. You should also consider your chain ring and I would probably reverse it when you fit the new chain and sprocket.
-
Fine, i'm going to do like that.
Otherwise, when i replaced my last chain (5000 kms ago) i had a horrible noise of transmission, probably the problem came from my sprocket..), the noise has disappeared around 200 kms later.
-
I would continue to use the old chain and sprocket until you have problems of the chain falling off.
Or perhaps the teeth on the sprocket breaking off.
Another thing to consider is having the tools/spares to do the sprocket/chainring/chain change. The most difficult step will be removing the rear sprocket, it might be easier in a place where you can find a garage with a large vice or a really big adjustable spanner rather than somewhere out in the wilds.
-
...
Another thing to consider is having the tools/spares to do the sprocket/chainring/chain change. The most difficult step will be removing the rear sprocket, it might be easier in a place where you can find a garage with a large vice or a really big adjustable spanner rather than somewhere out in the wilds.
I do not know if this is a valid assumption or not when dealing with bike shops in developing countries, but I assume that most bike shops will have a large wrench or vice and will have a chain whip. But, I assume they will not have the special Rohloff tool for sprocket removal, so I carry that Rohloff tool but not the other stuff.
-
I would continue to use the old chain and sprocket until you have problems of the chain falling off.
Or perhaps the teeth on the sprocket breaking off.
Another thing to consider is having the tools/spares to do the sprocket/chainring/chain change. The most difficult step will be removing the rear sprocket, it might be easier in a place where you can find a garage with a large vice or a really big adjustable spanner rather than somewhere out in the wilds.
I find a large stilson works well in place of a chain whip. I tried with a chain whip and just snapped the chain then tried with a large stilson and the sprocket came off no problem. I was initially worried that the stilson would damage the strocket but it didn't at all.
-
I do not know if this is a valid assumption or not when dealing with bike shops in developing countries, but I assume that most bike shops will have a large wrench or vice and will have a chain whip. But, I assume they will not have the special Rohloff tool for sprocket removal, so I carry that Rohloff tool but not the other stuff.
I assume the same thing.
I don't do developing countries, but in the European countries I have visited small motor vehicle garages and places dealing with agricultural machinery are much more common than bike shops and I reckon they should also be able to remove a Rohloff sprocket so long as I provide the special Rohloff tool.
-
..., but in the European countries I have visited small motor vehicle garages and places dealing with agricultural machinery are much more common than bike shops and I reckon they should also be able to remove a Rohloff sprocket so long as I provide the special Rohloff tool.
In the more advanced economies like Europe, I would try to find a bike shop if my Rohloff needed help. I do not let my sprockets wear to the point that Julio has, thus if I needed the sprocket removed it would be because the hub inards are the problem, in which case my problems are pretty sizeable. I do not do extremely long trips where that much sprocket wear would occur during the trip.
If my wheel had to be shipped to Rohloff or some other shop, or if a new internal mechanism could be provided by Rohloff, I am assuming that I would rely on a bike shop for assistance.
I made the comment about developing countries because if you are in one of them, you are more likely to be doing the high distances where you might need to flip your sprocket. But if you were there, you might have been better off if you switched to spline carrier before your trip.
-
I made my chain whip, in aluminium for more lightness. So when i need flipped the sprocket, i just ask in a garage a appropriate tool (best is a large key in 24)
But i'm just thinking if my sprocket is too much worn (as a cat teeths), could i disassemble it ? :o
-
I made my chain whip, in aluminium for more lightness. ...
But i'm just thinking if my sprocket is too much worn (as a cat teeths), could i disassemble it ? :o
Decades ago (the era of freewheels instead of cassettes) I made some chain whips, I could not afford to buy the real thing. Back then if you wanted to custom build a freewheel for different gearing, you needed a couple of chain whips, as at least one of the sprockets would be threaded onto the freewheel body. I badly bent them even though they were made of steel. If you are trying to remove Rohloff sprocket with a DIY whip that you fabricated, I wish you luck at the time when you actually need that luck.
Or, if your chain whip is only to remove a cassette so you can fix a spoke or something, there are simpler ways to do that. I made one that was less than 50 grams, it was a short bit of chain and a cord that you can tie off to the rim. See photo. Some people put their cassette retaining rings on really tight, if you wanted to use a whip substitute like mine, make sure it will work at home first, just in case you need a real whip.
I have also heard of people using a nylon strap (from their luggage) or some light weight rope to serve a similar purpose.
Speaking of whips, something I started to do a few years ago - when you are working with a chain whip, the end of the chain often falls from the sprocket and is quite inconvenient. I bought some tiny little very strong magnets. I use a small magnet to hold the loose end of the chain to the sprocket. Some day someone will get smart and start to put a magnet on the end of the chain on chain whips to serve that purpose. (If nobody patented it yet, I am hereby documenting my brilliant invention.)
***
Disassemble it? I assume you mean threaded one, I think not. If you are talking about a splinned one, I assume they are sold disassembled.
I think Dan has custom milled some chainring teeth or something like that to restore the shape of the worn teeth, I however do not have a milling machine.
A good welder might be able to weld on a new sprocket if they had one, but that would require a lot of careful tolerances to make sure that the body and sprocket are alighned correctly and the sprocket is concentric with the body. I have a small AC welder, but I am not capable of that.
For a long trip to the middle of nowhere, I think the splinned carrier would be the best idea, perhaps a spare sprocket and spare circlip. Plus of course the Rohloff tool, in the event that the hub internals need to be accessed.
-
I think Dan has custom milled some chainring teeth or something like that to restore the shape of the worn teeth, I however do not have a milling machine.
I have indeed custom-milled the teeth on vintage freewheel cogs to keep them going. I have a stash of old SunTour Pro-Compe and Ultra freewheel bodies and cogs plus a few Regina Oros for my older bikes. So long as the tooth profiles can be restored and then re-hardened and quenched, all is good and their lives can be extended for some time. I also make my own Regina pawl springs from "music" wire when the originals wear out. I've also recycled the door springs on old floppy diskettes to use as pawl springs for other brands.
A couple years ago, I was faced with removing a very worn Rohloff cog for a friend. The teeth were just spikes and a chain whip couldn't really engage so I made a specialized pin wrench to do the job. All it required was some 5mm sheet steel which I milled into a sort of Y shape with rounded jaws and a handle. I then drilled holes and threaded in some cap-head allen screws. The heads engaged the holes in the cog and it spun off nicely, opposed by the Rohloff remover. I wish I'd kept it or taken a photo, but it was recycled into the next workshop project.
Speaking of whips, something I started to do a few years ago - when you are working with a chain whip, the end of the chain often falls from the sprocket and is quite inconvenient. I bought some tiny little very strong magnets. I use a small magnet to hold the loose end of the chain to the sprocket. Some day someone will get smart and start to put a magnet on the end of the chain on chain whips to serve that purpose. (If nobody patented it yet, I am hereby documenting my brilliant invention.)
I've long used a small cable tie for the same purpose, to keep the chain from disengaging under pressure if the loose end falls free. It also ensures as full engagement as possible. I just snip it once the cog/sprocket is off.
Best,
Dan.
-
... A couple years ago, I was faced with removing a very worn Rohloff cog for a friend. The teeth were just spikes and a chain whip couldn't really engage so I made a specialized pin wrench to do the job. All it required was some 5mm sheet steel which I milled into a sort of Y shape with rounded jaws and a handle. I then drilled holes and threaded in some cap-head allen screws. The heads engaged the holes in the cog and it spun off nicely, opposed by the Rohloff remover. ...
That is a brilliant idea.
-
Brilliant, Dan.
-
Although I failed to keep my Danneauxmade Rohloff cog removal tool, it was modeled broadly after a Sugino BB pin wrench, shown in photos 1 and 2 below, but scaled up and dimensioned to fit the Rohloff's sprocket holes. I used four allens to ensure good engagement and spread the forces more evenly if the sprocket had been stuck. The pictures should give a good idea of the concept.
I've also included photos of a couple more of my homemade tools, some of many. One is a "lightweight" touring chain whip made of aluminum bar stock I made 41 years ago, likely similar to the one Julien has. I have a very stout steel version made by SunTour for home shop use. The other tool pictured below is a headset wrench made of steel I tempered and sized to fit a Tange Falcon threaded adjustable headset race and lock nut. Not the prettiest tools, but fully functional and cheap as materials and a bit of labor. I offset the handle to get it out of the way of the locknut wrench. I've made adjustable pin wrenches and hooked lockring spanners and lots of brake-related tools as well when what I wanted/needed was either unavailable, too long a wait or too expensive to buy for a single use or application.
Best,
Dan.
-
Instead of milling the one time use Rohloff sprocket wrench from a sheet, I probably would have used two pieces of bar stock, hinged with a bolt to make the Rohloff specific pin wrench, the only reason being that is stuff I have on hand and could accomplish with a hack saw. And it would also fit different sprocket sizes as long as I was lazy and only used two 5mm bolt heads to fit the Rohloff sprocket, not four bolts. But I must say I am impressed.
-
All this takes the notion of a "bodge" to another level entirely.
Maybe it's time to declare an award for a particularly inspired workshop creation? -- say, the "Danneaux Bodge of Honour"?
-
Maybe it's time to declare an award for a particularly inspired workshop creation? -- say, the "Danneaux Bodge of Honour"?
You're wicked, Mr Saxby.
-
:)
Desperate times call for disparate measures, Andre ;)
-
;D
Best,
Dan.
-
From this thread it would appear that not many have converted/upgraded? to the splined sprocket driver.
True or false?
Mike
-
Probably true for those that like myself have already got the splined sprocket and some spare threaded sprockets.
Given the slow rate of Rohloff sprocket wear, I am unlikely to need the upgrade.
The only reason I can see for me changing would be if I undertook a really long expedition type tour outside Europe, and in this case I would probably also want to change to a Nomad.
-
From this thread it would appear that not many have converted/upgraded? to the splined sprocket driver.
True or false?
Mike
I have not and won't for a long time. Still on my original sprocket that is now six years old.
When the spined system first came out it had a significantly different chainline than the threaded sprocket. I did not want that change on my bike, so I bought a spare threaded sprocket. Later, Rohloff came out with a thin splined sprocket carrier which had a much smaller change in chainline compared to the threaded sprocket. If I had known that the slim version was coming, I would not have bought the spare threaded one. But I have it so, no reason to change.
I have several bikes and most of my distance ridden each year is on derailleur bikes. Thus, not much wear on the Rohloff sprocket.
I suspect there are high mileage riders and low mileage riders, of those I am a low mileage rider when it comes to my Rohloff.
And there are owners that change chains much more frequently than others, high mileage on a worn chain will wear out the sprocket much faster.
On this particular forum, there are a number of owners that have installed a fully enclosed chain case (I do not recall name or brand) and those appear to enhance chain life greatly, presumably the sprocket life also benefits.
-
From this thread it would appear that not many have converted/upgraded? to the splined sprocket driver.
True or false?
Probably True for the majority of owners currently running threaded sprockets that aren't worn out, but those are no longer available so the switch is inevitable for all.
I converted to the Rohloff "Slim" splined carrier when it became available and have been pleased. It does allow for easy field removal using only a thin bladed screwdriver instead of the chain whip, Rohloff holder and large wrench needed for the threaded version and this was the prime incentive for me. I do carry a spare circlip on tour in case mine is lost and wear eye protection when removing it in case it goes flying. I would suggest removing the carrier periodically to regrease the hub threads to prevent galling, though it seems unlikely people will remember to do so. To remove the splined carrier, just leave the cog and circlip in place as remove as you would the threaded version. I do still carry the Rohloff remover on long tours in case I need to remove the carrier for some reason, as it is unlikely I would find this tool at all bike shops.
For more see: http://thorncyclesforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=12731.msg94736#msg94736 ...and the links in that post.
Best,
Dan.
-
From this thread it would appear that not many have converted/upgraded? to the splined sprocket driver.
True or false?
Mike
On this particular forum, there are a number of owners that have installed a fully enclosed chain case (I do not recall name or brand) and those appear to enhance chain life greatly, presumably the sprocket life also benefits.
Chainglider.
I've used one on my Raven for 4+ years.
38*17 rings
I don't have my chain and maintenance stats to hand but I am sure the life of chain and sprockets have been greatly improved.
Plus no greasy marks on trouser legs!
-
I decided to replace my sprocket after around 18000 kms. Finally my chain was rusty, so i removed chain and sprocket and only reverse my Surly chainring.
Everything works perfectly and without noise transmission !
(https://i93.servimg.com/u/f93/19/07/93/69/th/p1160410.jpg) (https://servimg.com/view/19079369/260)
-
I decided to replace my sprocket after around 18000 kms.
18K is impressive by itself. Congratulations, Julio.
But I'm just wondering if, push come to shove and needs be, that sprocket didn't have further impressive mileage in it.
-
Yeah but it could do more ! maybe 5000k more..
If i compare with a German couple that i met on my way, and who never change chain as i do (every 4-5000 kms), they did only 9000 kms...
-
That sprocket might have more life in it, but I suspect that any new chain used on that sprocket would wear out much faster than a new chain on a new sprocket. Thus, the most economical solution is probably to replace the sprocket now.
Did you use a replacement threaded one or upgrade to the splined system? If splined, any initial thoughts on that?
-
It's what i did, remove sprocket and chain.. and i kept the old version sprocket, actually one i have left.
-
Yeah but it could do more ! maybe 5000k more..
If i compare with a German couple that i met on my way, and who never change chain as i do (every 4-5000 kms), they did only 9000 kms..
Valuable data points. This information confirms my belief that replacing chains relatively early is the most economical way of handling a Rohloff transmission.
-
I decided to replace my sprocket after around 18000 kms. Finally my chain was rusty, so i removed chain and sprocket and only reverse my Surly chainring.
Everything works perfectly and without noise transmission !
(https://i93.servimg.com/u/f93/19/07/93/69/th/p1160410.jpg) (https://servimg.com/view/19079369/260)
Has that sprocket been reversed?
My Mercury has done a bit over 8,000 miles and is still on the original transmission, I haven't yet got round to the Spring service, when I do the sprocket will be flipped and a new chain added, I'll have a good look at the chainring and flip that if it looks worn or doesn't run well. Previous experience is that 1 chainring lasts 2 sprockets. The chain has used up all the adjustment of the Mercurys EBB otherwise I'd let it run a little longer, it's giving no problems.
-
Yeah but it could do more ! maybe 5000k more..
If i compare with a German couple that i met on my way, and who never change chain as i do (every 4-5000 kms), they did only 9000 kms..
Valuable data points. This information confirms my belief that replacing chains relatively early is the most economical way of handling a Rohloff transmission.
That conclusion depends entirely on the cost of components.
Doubling the lifespan of a chain at the cost of shortening that of one side of a £15 sprocket is a different proposition depending on whether you're buying £5 or £25 chains and I've happily used chains at both those price points/
-
Valuable data points. This information confirms my belief that replacing chains relatively early is the most economical way of handling a Rohloff transmission.
That conclusion depends entirely on the cost of components.
Doubling the lifespan of a chain at the cost of shortening that of one side of a £15 sprocket is a different proposition depending on whether you're buying £5 or £25 chains and I've happily used chains at both those price points/
I would factor in the time spent on maintenance, not just the cost. Easier to replace the chain more often as no need to remove the rear wheel. And probably difficult to remove and reverse the threaded sprocket (easier with the splined version).
-
Valuable data points. This information confirms my belief that replacing chains relatively early is the most economical way of handling a Rohloff transmission.
That conclusion depends entirely on the cost of components.
Doubling the lifespan of a chain at the cost of shortening that of one side of a £15 sprocket is a different proposition depending on whether you're buying £5 or £25 chains and I've happily used chains at both those price points/
I would factor in the time spent on maintenance, not just the cost. Easier to replace the chain more often as no need to remove the rear wheel. And probably difficult to remove and reverse the threaded sprocket (easier with the splined version).
Yes. The cost is not only the component removed before traditional full wear is reached but time and effort spent on removing/reversing/refitting another component. There are other sorts of costs besides component costs. I nearly gave myself a heart attack fitting the n-lock (very tight Swiss-supervised tolerances, aggravated by stiff factory lube). I'm not trying my luck on unscrewing the known-obstructive Rohloff sprocket until absolutely necessary.
-
.... I'm not trying my luck on unscrewing the known-obstructive Rohloff sprocket until absolutely necessary.
A few years ago I took my sprocket off, just because I kept hearing that they can be hard to get off. Came off quite easily, but I used a really big adjustable wrench and a large chain whip. And added some Phil grease to the threads before it went back on. Next time I have my wheel off of my bike and have my tools handy, I might just take it off again to renew the grease on the threads.
But if you prefer to neglect it until it becomes something that warrants fear of attempting, that might be self-fullfilling.
Just checked the date of the photo, I took the sprocket off three years after I built up my Nomad. And the photo was taken three years ago. So, it is probably about due for me to renew the grease on the threads again this year.
-
.... I'm not trying my luck on unscrewing the known-obstructive Rohloff sprocket until absolutely necessary.
But if you prefer to neglect it until it becomes something that warrants fear of attempting, that might be self-fullfilling.
The axle was greased by the maker of my bike, it was checked by the delivering dealer at my request. The sprocket has been on that greased axle shaft for ten years now. If it was going to freeze, it would have done so by now. Conversely, if it hasn't frozen on, there's no reason to expect that it will. There's no point in fiddling with it until the first side of the sprocket is worn down, at which time if it doesn't come off at my first attempt, rather than strain my heart, I'll send the entire wheel away to get it done. The mickey-mouse opportunity cost of a few chains less than fully worn when I've developed my transmission to where I anyway get three times the previous chain mileage is absolutely no reason to fiddle with unnecessary tasks on the bike; quite the opposite.
-
Valuable data points. This information confirms my belief that replacing chains relatively early is the most economical way of handling a Rohloff transmission.
That conclusion depends entirely on the cost of components.
Doubling the lifespan of a chain at the cost of shortening that of one side of a £15 sprocket is a different proposition depending on whether you're buying £5 or £25 chains and I've happily used chains at both those price points/
I would factor in the time spent on maintenance, not just the cost. Easier to replace the chain more often as no need to remove the rear wheel. And probably difficult to remove and reverse the threaded sprocket (easier with the splined version).
For me that might work the other way though I've never timed myself. I live in a small flat and the preparation to do any bike maintenance and clearing up afterwards makes the frequency more important than the time spent. This bike, my main one though it's been through several incarnations, gets a biannual service and through clean, this will include taking the sprocket and chain off whether they need replacing/turning or not. The intention is to minimise maintenance between services, usually no more than adjusting chain tension and brakes, wipe and oil chain and if strictly necessary a bit of a soapy wash.
I use the squeeze method of threaded sprocket removal, this combined with taking it off twice a year has meant it's always been easy, so much so that I have doubts the splined sprocket is any quicker.
-
What impresses me in this thread that we all appear to have personal or at least different circumstantial considerations for how, where and how frequently we do various classes of maintenance. But the maintenance gets done... Is there perhaps a zen component of bicycle maintenance that makes it in itself a satisfying experience?
-
Is there perhaps a zen component of bicycle maintenance that makes it in itself a satisfying experience?
This is certainly true for me -- I really enjoy bicycle maintenance...to the point where I do a quick wipe-down of the bike after each ride to keep it looking nice, to check chain lubrication, and to check for any damage or incipient failures. I find this procedure actually saves me from having to do extended maintenance because I catch and address problems when they are small. I do the same in camp each night after dinner and before I retire to my tent. Not a bad idea given the alkali dist I ride through on my desert tours.
I long ago configured my bikes to be compatible with my high-mileage riding so I really have very little actual maintenance. This has essentially freed me from most maintenance except for chain lubrication and occasional cleaning and replacement.
Of the 15 in my stable, five of the derailleur bikes (tandem, enduro all-road, gravel bike, Folder and recumbent plus my Rohloff-hubbed Nomad expedition bike) have indexed shifting with a friction option. Most of the rest all have friction shifting, long-lived thick chainrings, wide chains, and 5-6sp freewheels that seem to last forever. When the freewheel cogs eventually wear and the teeth become hooked I reprofile them, heat-treat and quench, and go onward. Five of the indexed bikes have cassettes; four are 7-sp, another is 9-sp and it wears more quickly than all the rest. All my super-high mileage randonneur bikes use non-compact half-step gearing with my favorite gear combinations running in a straight chainline to reduce wear close to Rohloff/Fixie levels (there's a fixed-gear in the stable as well). Kool-Stop Salmon brake pads, sealed bearing hubs (Phil Wood, SON, Sakae, Bontrager) and bottom brackets (Phil, Tange, Shimano), and Stronglight/Galli/Tange/Saavedra (French, Italian, Japanese and Argentine!) rollerbearing headsets (with a generous supply of spare floating bearing races and rollers) nearly eliminate those wear points despite high-mileage riding over a period of years. There's also a 1970 Folder with an S_A 3-sp IGH and a 1938 gentleman's roadster with a coaster brake. Nearly every bike I own uses full mudguards with very long mudflaps and I find this greatly helps the drivetrains remain clean and largely maintenance-free.
When I have freshened my bikes, it is usually not because of wear but due to true advancements. One example, I recently refreshed my tandem by swapping 1.5in road slicks for 2.0 in Duremes and SunMetal CR18 Chinook rims for Andra 40s, self-energizing cantis for v-brakes. All made the bike more pleasant and comfortable to ride and were worthwhile for me and my stoker. For many years I used high-quality pannier racks made of aluminum rod...and they always fractured. When Thorn, Tubus, and Surly offered tubular steel racks I made the swap and have had no breakages since. Similarly, though I have done most of my riding over last 41 years in racing shoes and cleats/toe straps, switching to SPD shoes and pedals in 2012 was a real advancement and eliminated the need to carry a spare pair of shoes for walking and camp use. As mentioned previously, lighting technology advances so quickly, my lights are essentially obsoleted every couple years.
So yes, I enjoy maintenance for its own sake, but it is now "maintenance lite" -- a quick wipedown here, a bit of oil there -- thanks to a careful assemblage of long-lived components. I just cannot stand a noisy or malfunctioning bike nor do I want to be let down in the middle of nowhere, so that's what drives more major/preventive maintenance for me.
Best,
Dan.
-
... 5-6sp freewheels that seem to last forever. When the freewheel cogs eventually wear and the teeth become hooked I reprofile them, heat-treat and quench, and go onward.
No waste chez Danneaux!
-
What impresses me in this thread that we all appear to have personal or at least different circumstantial considerations for how, where and how frequently we do various classes of maintenance. But the maintenance gets done... Is there perhaps a zen component of bicycle maintenance that makes it in itself a satisfying experience?
Some people have fear of working on mechanical things, some people do not, this I think is in part based on how much mechanical aptitude you have.
I do not mind working on my bikes at all, I built up most of my bikes from parts. That pretty much explains why I know them inside and out. (I however have never looked inside my Rohloff and have no desire to do so. Looking at a few you tube videos satisfied my curiosity on that.)
So, I am very content to do all of my own work, etc. I have accumulated a good assortment of tools to do it too.
And I am retired, so it is very easy for me to make time to do all of my own work.
But I do know people that would rather clean the kitchen and bathroom (is loo the correct translation?) before they would even attempt to adjust a brake cable on a bike. I am the opposite, I would be adjusting the brake cable while I was still riding if I felt that it needed adjustment.
-
I had a fear of working on the bike, lack of confidence. However, that has changed significantly over the last year or so with help from so many of you here. I have changed all the cables and housings, the twist shifter, chain, chainring, rear sprocket, the ex box pulley, the eccentric BB, external bearings and the brake pads and the bike is as smooth as silk now. I still haven't managed to free off the seatpost though. I am very grateful for this forum.
-
What impresses me in this thread that we all appear to have personal or at least different circumstantial considerations for how, where and how frequently we do various classes of maintenance. But the maintenance gets done... Is there perhaps a zen component of bicycle maintenance that makes it in itself a satisfying experience?
I detest bike maintenance, if anything I'm more Confucius than Zen, who I think said
" to avoid bike maintenance do bike maintenance"
I'm paraphrasing, but he did actually say
"Success depends upon previous preparation, and without such preparation, there is sure to be failure."
-
Heh-heh. Taken on a rational basis, say straight-up cost accounting (or, more poncily, cost-benefit analysis), almost anyone here, including those who're retired, could be excused for feeling guilty about wasting their time doing bike maintenance rather than earning money or giving their valuable time to voluntary activities. The Americans may not understand this, but the British and the Australians were educated largely or wholly free on the taxpayers, and therefore can be said to owe something to the common weal...
(I'm not making a normative case, preaching about what should be, telling other people what they should do; I'm merely offering a point for discussion. Don't shoot the piano player.)
-
I'm a piano player and humbly request that I not be shot, at least until I've mastered Bach's 48. ;)
-
Last night at dinner I mentioned a Polish pianist (whose name I'd forgotten; it happens: I'm terrible on names) of whom I wrote that he performed surgical operations on the keys. He went to the trouble of making three calls (to the newspaper he read it in, to my syndication service, to my agent) to get my number, then called me and said, "Professionally, I'd rather have the hands of a butcher, a huge spread of fingers." Three decades later I was sitting in a country house library, with several professional pianists also appearing at the same festival, and when Marc-Andre Hamelin -- this was before he was famous, so I'd never seen him in the flesh -- sat down at the piano and stretched his hands prior to playing, I was startled into saying, "Behold, the hands of a butcher!" The pianists looked at me rather oddly...
Mind your fingers in the spokes or you'll need Bach's 38 (homeopathic remedies extracted from flowers by Dr Edward Bach).
-
Last night at dinner I mentioned a Polish pianist (whose name I'd forgotten; it happens: I'm terrible on names) of whom I wrote that he performed surgical operations on the keys. He went to the trouble of making three calls (to the newspaper he read it in, to my syndication service, to my agent) to get my number, then called me and said, "Professionally, I'd rather have the hands of a butcher, a huge spread of fingers." Three decades later I was sitting in a country house library, with several professional pianists also appearing at the same festival, and when Marc-Andre Hamelin -- this was before he was famous, so I'd never seen him in the flesh -- sat down at the piano and stretched his hands prior to playing, I was startled into saying, "Behold, the hands of a butcher!" The pianists looked at me rather oddly...
Mind your fingers in the spokes or you'll need Bach's 38 (homeopathic remedies extracted from flowers by Dr Edward Bach).
I worked in a grocery store part time when I was in high school. I was rather surprised to see that many if not most butchers had at least one digit that was shorter than it previously had been.
-
Gruesome. I could never embark on a life of crime: as a young adult I used to spend some college holidays going to fight for the freedom of our black brothers. Up in the Congo, the Colonel and I were lying behind a log while Cuban commies shot at the woodworm, swapping lines from Greek plays (I'd first met him when at 16 I was offered a cruise in the Med on his sailboat for helping him with his translation of Homer). At one dramatic point of declamation I got carried away and gesticulated with a hand in the air above the log, and a bullet just tipped my forefinger, which to this day has a small but distinctive score across the fingerprint whorls.
I must still wipe down the spokes on my bike, which I leave to last, sitting on a stool beside the bike, because wiping the spokes gives you a chance to inspect all the most critical parts of the bike. Actually I also use the stool for the next part of the annual wipe-down service (the washdown this year was special, for the bike's tenth anniversary) which is to check all the nuts are correctly torqued. You don't really need to look at the nut because the torque wrench makes an audible click but if there's anything wrong around the nut somewhere, you'll see it only by focussing on that small part of the bike.
A curiosity. The ESGE Pletscher stand on this bike is attached to a solid tab on the internally and externally strengthened and multi-braced lefthand chain stay. On top, visible, it has the hex socket heads of nice stainless bolts, but turning them causes nothing but a disaster. What the bolts actually do is hold on a half-round piece of metal, flat on one side, to a hollow channel on the mounting surface. It looks like the thing was designed to be bolted directly to a round chain stay with threaded inserts in it. Such a perforated chain stay would be the sort of incompetent, dicey design that would cause Andy Blance at least to curse (hey, a guy from the Porsche factory who was very impressed with the handling of my car when I took him around the track, when the car was up on the hoist so he could inspect the track control arms I had bent up from soft ali on a Black & Decker Workman -- on seeing what he'd trusted his life to fainted dead away, but he just didn't know what was fast: I put 10K racing miles on those ali bend-ups before they cracked badly enough to put your thumbnail into). The threads of the two bolts pull up the adapting filler/spacer in the hollow, then extend beyond the assembly. The bolt extensions are put through the plain holes in the thick flatmounting tab brazed to the chain stay, and then fixed with washers, spring washers and a nut on the back. So all you do by turning the obvious hex heads on the outside of the bike is break the half-round spacer free of its brazing and then strip or break the bolts; instead you need to turn the nuts at the back. Since on a Rohloff bike with sliders, and an EXT fitting right there as well, actually under the tab and blocking the view of the nuts, there is so much going on in that area of the bike that I suffered hours of frustration before I brought the stool and sat down determinedly to inspect what the hell was going on. This, by the way, isn't the sort of thing you expect to find explicated in the manual of a baukast fahrrad (roughly, a German custom bike) because in essence you can order any fitting you want as long as the vendor doesn't consider it inferior, and anyway you're supposed to return the bike to a dealer near you every year for a service to maintain your ten-year guarantee, and the dealer will have been trained at the factory that the bolts on this particular stand are not turned from the front... You guys with Thorn bikes and on this forum just don't know how lucky you are to have so much hard-earned expertise so close to hand.
-
I always remember seeing a documentary about Jazz Guitarist Tal Farlow. He had truly massive hands!
Although not a Butcher, I do appear to have one finger on my right hand noticeably shorter than it's left equivalent. The fingers are actually the same length, but I broke a bone in my hand playing Rugby many years ago and the knuckle is now slightly lower down.
-
I show you my Surly chainring after 15000 kms, it traveled mountains, dust and sand but i don't think it appears tired..
(https://i93.servimg.com/u/f93/19/07/93/69/th/img_2019.jpg) (https://servimg.com/view/19079369/266)
-
Looks in very good condition given what you have put it through. Mine is much worse at the moment, done a lot of miles but the teeth are nearly pointed. I plan to replace it and the chain soon. I hope to get away with reversing the sprocket as it’s not gone as far as the chainring.
-
I show you my Surly chainring after 15000 kms, it traveled mountains, dust and sand but i don't think it appears tired..
Looks like there's quite a few thousand miles left in it.
-
You've had good luck with your Surly ring, Julio--I hope it continues to give you good service.
In July 2018 I replaced my 36T Surly ring, which had about 10,000 kms on it. The teeth were not too badly worn--you could see some wear on the "lower slopes" of each tooth, at the front side--but the ring itself had become ovalised, and that was stressing my chain.
I bought my old 36T ring in June 2015 in New York City. The guy in the bike shop (on 10th Avenue in Manhattan, in the 40's) said that Surly's stainless rings were durable, but that in his experience, the quality varied from batch to batch. He said it was not uncommon, for example, to find a batch in which the rings were slightly oval.
Looks like you have one from a good batch!
Safe journeys, glad your squeak decided that it was pointless making a fuss, and gave up :)
John
-
You've had good luck with your Surly ring, Julio--I hope it continues to give you good service.
The guy in the bike shop (on 10th Avenue in Manhattan, in the 40's) said that Surly's stainless rings were durable, but that in his experience, the quality varied from batch to batch. He said it was not uncommon, for example, to find a batch in which the rings were slightly oval.
Agreed. I have a Surly ring I've never been able to get properly centred causing a tight spot on the chain. Never had a problem with the Thorn rings where the recessed bolt holes also help with alignment.