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Community => Rohloff Internal Hub Gears => Topic started by: one arm bandit on October 26, 2018, 06:27:46 PM

Title: Rohloff wears out
Post by: one arm bandit on October 26, 2018, 06:27:46 PM
Thought you guys would be interested in a current thread from that well known bastion of truth.... Facebook.
From the Bicycle Touring & Bikepacking group. 3 posts by the same guy. Make of what you will

I have toured extensively on the rohloff. Unloaded it was fine. But on a heavy loaded bike they wore out too quickly. Went through three in a row. That is why they have a weight limit. Went to pinion gearbox and had zero issues in 32k miles and the same belt. Replacement belt is still in my panniers not used yet. My brother is at 37k with the same story and no belt wear out either yet.

They refused my second and third hub replacement and blamed weight limit. Something they used to mention on website, but no longer have it on there.

my bike and I were over the recommended weight limit. I agree. At the time I carried too much weight. I now ride much much lighter.
Title: Re: Rohloff wears out
Post by: mickeg on October 26, 2018, 07:50:24 PM
I never heard of a weight limit, other than the ratio of chainring to sprocket size limit based on weight.

If he travels that many miles on a bike that puts more weight on the rear wheel than a typical tandem, maybe he needs to re-think how he is doing his bike touring. 

I have never used a through axle bike, if that is a stronger axle design then perhaps that would be a better option.  I remember in the old freewheel days (with 120 or 126 mm hub spacing) that I would bend cheaper axles and I have seen broken axles on such hubs.

Or perhaps he was breaking flanges at the spoke holes and concluded that it was a weight problem when it might have been a wheel build problem?
Title: Re: Rohloff wears out
Post by: David Simpson on October 26, 2018, 10:41:12 PM
The quoted Facebook posts are quite thin on details. I'm curious about what exactly broke on the Rohloff hubs. And to break three in a row? Did the same problem happen to all three hubs?

There is a reference to a weight limit on the Rohloff website, which has now been removed. I don't recall any such limit, except in regards to the gear ratio (mentioned by George above). Does anyone recall such a limit?

Interestingly, he mentions that he has had no problems with the Pinion gearbox, but he also admits that he now rides "much lighter".

- DaveS
Title: Re: Rohloff wears out
Post by: one arm bandit on October 26, 2018, 10:59:54 PM
More from OP

Myself and bike at highest weight was 300lbs. The problem was that I was in extremely steep mountains and am quite strong rider. I was sure that other parts of the bike would give out first, but the internals failed. I did go through many brake pads as well. The belt drive was fine though. I have since lowered total weight to 200lbs. And switched to pinion gearbox without any problems.

another poster replied
Interesting. I'm 265lbs (bike+gear+body) before I add food and water to my bike, but was into the mid 400s when I travelled from Europe-Australia on a tandem with my ex-girlfriend. And I practically find the hilliest, roughest terrain possible!
Title: Re: Rohloff wears out
Post by: mickeg on October 27, 2018, 12:01:38 AM
I am around 180 pounds, Nomad is about 40, my load in Iceland was probably 100 pounds at the start (including water) when I had two weeks worth of food loaded on the bike.   So I probably had 320 pounds on the wheels on my Nomad.

I have known people that refuse to accept that some mechanical devices should not be treated harshly.  Some people like to shove hard on the pedals when they shift, will suddenly shove hard on the pedals to start from a stop, etc.  Maybe he was one of them.  I think there is more to it than we are hearing.  I do not have a facebook account.  (Or twitter or linked in or any other purely social media accounts, I do not count this site, Crazy Guy or Bikeforums.net as social media.)  So, I might be missing something.

My second bike as a kid had a Sturmey Archer 3 speed hub, so I learned early on that you do not pedal or pedal only lightly when you shift.  When I went to the old non-ramped/pinned derailleur systems of the 60s and 70s, that training to only pedal lightly when shifting proved to be useful.  And I still shift that way.

A friend of mine got upset when his dynohub stopped working.  He complained that it was supposed to be waterproof, so he saw nothing wrong with pushing his bike across a stream that was waist deep in water.  Sometimes you don't get the full story right away and sometimes you never get it.

Title: Re: Rohloff wears out
Post by: il padrone on November 18, 2018, 06:24:20 AM
A couple of friends of mine (both of whom may well have tipped the scales at over 100 kg body weight, plus gear) have managed to crack the hub shell flange. In each case I believe they were replaced by Rohloff under warranty. This involved a crack near one or more of the spoke-holes in the flange and is something that (if you are aware of it as a risk) may be aided with the use of a reinforced shell, or perhaps different spoke patterns.

http://www.pardo.net/bike/pic/fail-001/FAIL-141.html

(http://www.pardo.net/bike/pic/fail-001/peter.chesspod.com/gallery/d/6706-2/DSC04406_001.JPG)
Title: Re: Rohloff wears out
Post by: il padrone on November 18, 2018, 06:29:10 AM
The internals of a Rohloff are simply not going to fail; not without a great deal of rough shifting and a good measure of wilful neglect. My hub is currently up to 42,000 kms with nothing more than an oil change done every  5,000 kms.
Title: Re: Rohloff wears out
Post by: bobs on November 18, 2018, 09:35:19 AM
If I bought something and it failed and the manufacturer said it was my fault I might reluctantly buy another, but there is no way I would buy a third. There is usually another side to the story.

Bob
Title: Re: Rohloff wears out
Post by: Andre Jute on November 18, 2018, 09:51:47 AM
A couple of friends of mine (both of whom may well have tipped the scales at over 100 kg body weight, plus gear) have managed to crack the hub shell flange. In each case I believe they were replaced by Rohloff under warranty. This involved a crack near one or more of the spoke-holes in the flange and is something that (if you are aware of it as a risk) may be aided with the use of a reinforced shell, or perhaps different spoke patterns.

http://www.pardo.net/bike/pic/fail-001/FAIL-141.html

(http://www.pardo.net/bike/pic/fail-001/peter.chesspod.com/gallery/d/6706-2/DSC04406_001.JPG)

Rohloff is quite particular about how the hub is spoked into the rim; there's a clear section of instructions in the handbook. The flanges were strengthened a few years ago, and suddenly we heard no more or very little about broken flanges, so on any Rohloff of a certain age they may be weaker than on newer Rohloffs.

I don't either remember any universal weight limit. It is possible that what is being discussed on Facebook is exceeding the stated transmission ratio for a particular weight. That would fall outside the warranty, which is for a bike operated within and explicitly declared specification.
Title: Re: Rohloff wears out
Post by: mickeg on November 18, 2018, 04:46:59 PM
If I was aware of the strengthening bands you can put around the shell flanges when i bought my Rohloff, I would have bought them.  After all, I was buying the hub to put on a Nomad, a heavy duty bike to carry a load.  And that is why I bought a 36 spoke instead of a 32 spoke hub, for the extra strength to carry a load.  But I was unaware of the rings.  Or, they might not have yet been available when I bought my hub in spring 2013? 
https://www.rohloff.de/en/company/news/news/flange-support-rings/

Until I read the above, I was unaware that the rings were now standard equipment and included when you buy a new hub.  I thought that they were only recommended for tandems and other heavy duty uses.

It makes me a bit more nervous about my hub now that Rohloff has recognized that the flanges were weak enough that they now state that older hubs should be retrofitted when wheels are rebuilt.

Even though I built up my own wheels and therefore could spend several hours removing spokes to install the rings, since I have had 5 trouble free years so far I am not inclined to buy the rings.  Considering that Rohloff now considers the rings to be an integral part of the hub, I think they should send out a free set of rings to owners of older hubs upon request.  If they sent me a set of rings for free, I would take the time to install them.
Title: Re: Rohloff wears out
Post by: Andre Jute on November 19, 2018, 12:55:07 AM
Even though I built up my own wheels and therefore could spend several hours removing spokes to install the rings, since I have had 5 trouble free years so far I am not inclined to buy the rings.  Considering that Rohloff now considers the rings to be an integral part of the hub, I think they should send out a free set of rings to owners of older hubs upon request.  If they sent me a set of rings for free, I would take the time to install them.

Even for free strengthening rings I'm not rebuilding my fabulous Utopia-built wheels (more specifically not having it done, because I have no hope of matching such finely tensioned computer-built wheels); the wheels, built to carry 170kg of gear over and above the weight of the bike, are too good to mess with. My Rolloff is over ten years old, is bright ali on which a crack will instantly be seen, and shows zero sign of flange-stress though it often carries heavy shopping and painting gear (though less than a really loaded tourer, I think -- long-distance water really weighs). Seems to me that George's and my Rolloffs are proven survivors.

The same logic also makes me wonder how much the quality of the wheel build influences the longevity of the flanges.
Title: Re: Rohloff wears out
Post by: mickeg on November 19, 2018, 06:30:46 PM
...
The same logic also makes me wonder how much the quality of the wheel build influences the longevity of the flanges.

I am sure some of it does.  If some spokes are too tight, ... they are too tight.

Bike shops own spoke tension gauges, no home mechanic owns one.  I am of the home mechanic variety, but I did take the wheel to a shop to have the spoke tension checked and I then made a few adjustments at the shop as I did not have them tight enough.

I used straight gauge spokes because I was unable to source the length I needed in a butted spoke.  I usually use a 2.0/1.7/2.0 spoke (Wheelsmith DB14) but could not find anyone selling the length I needed so I bought 2.0 straight gauge.  The straight gauge offer slightly less shock absorption, so in that regard mine are slightly less desirable.

I can see why after 10 years you would not want to have the wheel rebuilt, but in my case it would be easy enough for me to undo the nipples on half the spokes so I could slip the rings on while the other half of the spokes stay on the wheel.  And if I did one flange at a time, it should be pretty easy to keep the wheel well trued.  My time is free and I have the skill to do the work.

If I order something from Europe where adding the rings does not increase the shipping cost, I might consider it.  But shipping costs for a few small items from Europe to USA can be considerable.

When I was in Iceland I was on a very cobbley road and the front wheel threw a rock into the back wheel and it apparently jammed in between the frame and a spoke, put a big ding in the spoke.  I thought nothing of it at the time, I felt a jerk and heard something that was not right from the impact.  I did not stop to inspect it, the bike kept rolling fine.  As the day progressed, I started having a bit of brake rub in one spot, but kept riding to the campground.  It was a very long day so I decided to take the the next day off.  The next day, I looked at the wheel to get rid of the brake rub and that was when I found that one spoke was loose with a big dent in it.  Initially I thought about it for a few minutes, I was thinking that the spoke nipple threads had probably been stripped.  I really did not want to take the time to pull off the rim tape, install a new spoke, etc.  So, I tried to just tighten up the nipple and in a few minutes the wheel was perfect again.  I have no idea how I got so lucky that I did not have to replace the spoke or nipple, but the wheel trued up fine.  Since I got home I have seen no reason to replace the spoke either, it is still on the wheel.

In the photo you can see the bent spoke before I trued up the wheel, the hub is behind the spoke so it is easy to see the bend.  This is when I should have had the shell crack, but it did not.  That was over two years ago, so maybe I do not have a reason to worry?  But I would really hate to have the shell crack later, so that is why I would consider adding the rings if they were provided.
Title: Re: Rohloff wears out
Post by: Andre Jute on November 20, 2018, 01:45:53 AM
That's a PANIC-NOW size ding in the spoke, George. Seems to me that the ease with which you fixed it apparently permanently demonstrates a) that the hours you spent building your own wheels (and not forgetting your early experience in a bike shop) and b) whatever cash sum you spent having the bike shop check the spoke tension on the original build -- were well spent.

I did look into the Park spoke tension meter once, with the intention of building a set of wheels from scratch just to see how it is done. The meter was about $75 at the discounters; that one worked like a swing-arm bar torque wrench; there was also a dial gauge tensiometer available but it was several hundred dollars, a bit stiff for a tool I would use only once. But I decided against buying a tensiometer for a few reasons, including that I already had another pair of superb wheels (Bontrager prototypes built by the boss), and with only a spoke wrench in hand I had retensioned and trued the badly-built factory wheels on my Gazelle Toulouse over a period of several weeks by simply patiently making tiny adjustments on only one spoke per day in the scheduled break on my daily rides until the wheels rode right and sounded evenly tensioned by the spoke-pinging method.
Title: Re: Rohloff wears out
Post by: mickeg on November 20, 2018, 02:13:07 AM
That's a PANIC-NOW size ding in the spoke, George. Seems to me that the ease with which you fixed it apparently permanently demonstrates a) that the hours you spent building your own wheels (and not forgetting your early experience in a bike shop) and b) whatever cash sum you spent having the bike shop check the spoke tension on the original build -- were well spent.

I did look into the Park spoke tension meter once, with the intention of building a set of wheels from scratch just to see how it is done. The meter was about $75 at the discounters; that one worked like a swing-arm bar torque wrench; there was also a dial gauge tensiometer available but it was several hundred dollars, a bit stiff for a tool I would use only once. But I decided against buying a tensiometer for a few reasons, including that I already had another pair of superb wheels (Bontrager prototypes built by the boss), and with only a spoke wrench in hand I had retensioned and trued the badly-built factory wheels on my Gazelle Toulouse over a period of several weeks by simply patiently making tiny adjustments on only one spoke per day in the scheduled break on my daily rides until the wheels rode right and sounded evenly tensioned by the spoke-pinging method.

A friend of mine volunteers time as a mechanic at a bicycle charity.  And I have donated stuff to the charity too.  So, he checked the tension at no cost for me.

One spoke a day is pretty slow.  I will often adjust two or three or four spokes at one time, but once the wheel is pretty good I might only make one eighth of a nipple adjustment (45 degrees) at a time when I am getting almost done.

I carry a spoke wrench on bike tours.  My Iceland trip was the first trip I did where I disassembled the bike and packed it in the S&S backpack case.  When I reassembled it, both wheels needed a bit of a tweak to get them straight again.

I also carry spokes on a bike tour, so if I needed to replace a few, I had what I needed.
Title: Re: Rohloff wears out
Post by: sd on November 22, 2018, 07:26:59 PM
I am inclined to think this blokes a liar. I don't believe a Rohloff would fail because of weight. You can only put so much effort into pedaling. The pressure you put onto the pedals will increase the more weight you carry but there is a maximum that any human can achieve. He's lieing.
Title: Re: Rohloff wears out
Post by: Donerol on February 25, 2019, 01:13:10 PM
Sorry for resurrecting an old thread, but I noticed that the person who had all the problems was using a belt drive. I recently spotted something on the CTC forum (https://forum.cyclinguk.org/viewtopic.php?p=1326720#p1326720) which may give some insight:

Quote
re belt drive on Rohloff:  For the last few years Rohloff have been fitting their new style driver which makes life easier for the average user; it allows easy replacement of the chain drive sprocket which is now fitted with a spline.  This replaces a unique (multi-start) screw thread arrangement for the sprocket. It turns out that the splined arrangement doesn't like a lot of preload on the chain/belt; the sprocket starts to orbit around on the driver, at first by a small amount (determined by the clearance between the parts) and as time goes on by an increasing amount and making a lot of noise too. (BTW the same thing often happens with belt drive sprockets fitted to other IGHs with the conventional three-lug fitment.) Problems are pretty much guaranteed with belt drive because belt drive requires a fair amount of preload.

This has caused plenty of grief to owners and was soon a known problem but it didn't stop folk being sold expensive machines which were bound to give trouble:

https://www.cyclechat.net/threads/cycling-around-the-world-sadly-had-to-return-for-major-repairs.227214/ (https://www.cyclechat.net/threads/cycling-around-the-world-sadly-had-to-return-for-major-repairs.227214/)

...

My bold. I don't know what if anything Rohloff themselves say about belt drive, but know they are insistent that chains must be quite slack.
Title: Re: Rohloff wears out
Post by: Dave Whittle Thorn Workshop on February 25, 2019, 04:39:47 PM
https://www.rohloff.de/en/company/news/news/splined-carrier-with-lock-ring-for-carbon-drive-speedhub-splined-sprockets/ (https://www.rohloff.de/en/company/news/news/splined-carrier-with-lock-ring-for-carbon-drive-speedhub-splined-sprockets/)
Title: Re: Rohloff wears out
Post by: mickeg on February 25, 2019, 05:06:23 PM
Since this thread came back to life, a quick update. 

Previously I said:

...
Even though I built up my own wheels and therefore could spend several hours removing spokes to install the rings, since I have had 5 trouble free years so far I am not inclined to buy the rings.  Considering that Rohloff now considers the rings to be an integral part of the hub, I think they should send out a free set of rings to owners of older hubs upon request.  If they sent me a set of rings for free, I would take the time to install them.

I changed my mind, I saw a good price on the reinforcing rings so I bought them. 

At the end of winter when I take my studded tire off the Rohloff wheel, I plan to add the rings at that time.  Probably two to three hours of work at a leisurely pace.  It never hurts to increase your level of confidence in your equipment.
Title: Re: Rohloff wears out
Post by: Donerol on February 26, 2019, 12:01:54 AM
https://www.rohloff.de/en/company/news/news/splined-carrier-with-lock-ring-for-carbon-drive-speedhub-splined-sprockets/ (https://www.rohloff.de/en/company/news/news/splined-carrier-with-lock-ring-for-carbon-drive-speedhub-splined-sprockets/)

Interesting - thanks.
Title: Re: Rohloff wears out
Post by: mickeg on February 26, 2019, 05:44:36 PM
And one more reason to be happy about a chain drive instead of belt.  Interesting.
Title: Re: Rohloff wears out
Post by: il padrone on March 14, 2019, 12:07:58 AM
I saw the quoted Facebook post and I have grave doubts about:
1. The honesty of the poster - few specific details were given at all about exactly what "wore out" and he responded with not much more.
2. The weight issue - weight of rider and/or loads carried were not given.

I take the whole tale with a HUGE grain of salt.

These types of posts motivated me to leave that FB page.
Title: Re: Rohloff wears out
Post by: Mike Ayling on March 17, 2019, 08:16:53 AM


 I do not have a facebook account.  (Or twitter or linked in or any other purely social media accounts, I do not count this site, Crazy Guy or Bikeforums.net as social media.)  So, I might be missing something.



You should add CycleBlaze to your favourites list. It is a home for a number of people who became unhappy with the behaviour of the owner of CrazyGuy. Still very small only 350 or so journals but you will recognise some of the more prolific former CG posters.

Mike
Title: Re: Rohloff wears out
Post by: TT on March 24, 2019, 10:24:19 PM
Hello all, Been lurking here for a year or so and hopefully getting a
Nomad before I'm too old to ride it. Let me first say that I have no
dog in this fight. That being said, I think this guy is a shill for pinion.
What's better than telling people how great your product is...telling
them this "and" how sub-par the competitor's product is.
Title: Re: Rohloff wears out
Post by: Nashtah on May 19, 2019, 03:43:25 AM
I am a long term larker of this site and used the information on it to decide to get my Rohloff.

I had a total hub failure by that I mean you could not coast on my bicycle. In a a  fit of anger I kicked the wheel and lo and behold the ability to coast was restored however the peddles still had zero ability to rotate. I got a ride and my tour was over.
Please note I called Rodriguez the maker of my bike three days before about the fact the wheel had a quarter inch wobble at the rim that came from the hub. They asked me to stay a day in place as they called Rohloff, who said send it in at end of tour in 250 miles. The bike only traveled 150 of those miles. The silver ring on the hub behind the cog had totally disintegrated.
I with touring load and some food and water weight in at 250bl.
Title: Re: Rohloff wears out
Post by: Mike Ayling on May 20, 2019, 12:07:58 AM
I am a long term larker of this site and used the information on it to decide to get my Rohloff.

I had a total hub failure by that I mean you could not coast on my bicycle. In a a  fit of anger I kicked the wheel and lo and behold the ability to coast was restored however the peddles still had zero ability to rotate. I got a ride and my tour was over.
Please note I called Rodriguez the maker of my bike three days before about the fact the wheel had a quarter inch wobble at the rim that came from the hub. They asked me to stay a day in place as they called Rohloff, who said send it in at end of tour in 250 miles. The bike only traveled 150 of those miles. The silver ring on the hub behind the cog had totally disintegrated.
I with touring load and some food and water weight in at 250bl.

What a bummer that you had to cut your tour short.

Keep us posted as to what Rodrigues and Rohloff did to repair replace your hub.

Mike
Title: Re: Rohloff wears out
Post by: Nashtah on May 20, 2019, 04:40:10 PM
The hub failure happened in 2017 on that’s summer tour.
The solution was to mail the bike to Rodriguez and they would deal with Rohloff for me.
6 weeks later bike was returned with a working hub.
I have had no further problems with the hub.

As to the tour I coasted and pushed 11 miles to the next town. My tour was planned to end at an event 110 miles away starting in three days. I called and emailed the local chapter of the club hosting the event. They had a member able to pick me up, host me for three days and drive me to the event. The bike was shipped from their address. I had already arranged a ride to the airport after the event.
Title: Re: Rohloff wears out
Post by: mickeg on May 20, 2019, 05:01:27 PM
When I true up a wheel, if there is any play in hub bearings, I certainly notice it.  The bike shop that I worked at many years ago would never have sold a bike to someone with that kind of play in the hub.  I am a little surprised that a wheel with that much play in the hub left Rodriquez shop in the first place.  Or was everything tight initially?

I am curious, was it a belt drive or chain drive?  The reason that I ask is that a belt puts more tension on the hub than a chain.  And it sounds like the failure occurred near where I would expect more stress on the hub to occur with a belt than with a chain.

You occasionally hear of a Rohloff with a serious problem soon after new, but you usually hear of skipping gears instead of total failure.  Major bummer. 

I only know one person that tours on a Rodriguez, she loves her dérailleur bike, is not a Rohloff.
Title: Re: Rohloff wears out
Post by: PH on May 20, 2019, 05:58:13 PM
What a shame, even more so that it cut your tour short.
In my touring kit (Whether using a Rohloff or derailleur bike)  is a band on friction shifter and an emergency derailleur hanger - Worst case scenario and any replacement wheel will do.  I've never used it with the Rohloff bike, but the shifter's replaced a crash damaged Campag Ergo and the hanger a friends snapped one.
Title: Re: Rohloff wears out
Post by: Danneaux on May 20, 2019, 07:08:17 PM
Quote
In my touring kit (Whether using a Rohloff or derailleur bike)  is a band on friction shifter and an emergency derailleur hanger - Worst case scenario and any replacement wheel will do.
My kit has the same.

Best,

Dan.
Title: Re: Rohloff wears out
Post by: mickeg on May 20, 2019, 07:35:45 PM
What a shame, even more so that it cut your tour short.
In my touring kit (Whether using a Rohloff or derailleur bike)  is a band on friction shifter and an emergency derailleur hanger - Worst case scenario and any replacement wheel will do.  I've never used it with the Rohloff bike, but the shifter's replaced a crash damaged Campag Ergo and the hanger a friends snapped one.

I do not carry a hanger with my Nomad Rohloff bike.  I just hope for the best.

I once heard (but do not know if true) that the disc mount on the Rohloff will hold a small chainring.  So, if your wheel turns but is otherwise dysfunctional, you can mount a small chainring to make a fixed gear single speed.  My hub is not disc capable so I do not know the details and can't measure.

My Lynskey has a replaceable hanger, I bought the genuine spare hanger when I bought the frame.  For my other derailleur bikes, I bought one of these to carry for touring.   
https://muckynutz.com/emergency_mech_hanger

A friend of mine a month or two before his third USA crossing, his Shimano 9 speed brifter quit.  He could not find a new replacement, asked me about bar end shifters, I let him ride one of my bar end bikes for 15km or so.  He then fitted his touring bike with bar end shifters.  In the middle of his tour, one person in the group also had her brifter quit working.  She had a triple crank so she finished the last half of the trip with a three speed.

Title: Re: Rohloff wears out
Post by: Danneaux on May 20, 2019, 08:49:32 PM
Quote
I once heard (but do not know if true) that the disc mount on the Rohloff will hold a small chainring.
Yes, it is true and I did it 6 years ago. Pics and post here:
http://thorncyclesforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=4523.msg48735#msg48735

It works but results in a fixed-gear, so you can't coast and therefore requires some rider adjustments. Not a biggie for me, as I regularly ride a dedicated Fixie for early-season training and fun. Because you are stuck with only one gear (and fixed at that), it is not a practical long-term solution but it surely beats pushing a loaded touring bike and can be a ticket out of the backcountry when =all= else fails. I found a 22t "fixed sprocket" with my 36t chainring works pretty well and results in a 42 gear-inch combination, workable for me.

Best,

Dan.
Title: Re: Rohloff wears out
Post by: Andre Jute on May 21, 2019, 12:05:37 AM
On the Rohloff with the EXT klickbox (the one with the full-length enclosed cables), rather than the Internal change with the open cables, you can take the click box off by hand via it's knurled thumbscrew and turn the gearbox with an 8mm socket or open wrench. I carry both in my lightweight bike kit. If anybody has an EXT setup, I'd be happy to describe this further and suggest possible tools.
Title: Re: Rohloff wears out
Post by: Danneaux on May 21, 2019, 01:00:45 AM
Quote
On the Rohloff with the EXT klickbox (the one with the full-length enclosed cables), rather than the Internal change with the open cables, you can take the click box off by hand via it's knurled thumbscrew and turn the gearbox with an 8mm socket or open wrench. I carry both in my lightweight bike kit. If anybody has an EXT setup, I'd be happy to describe this further and suggest possible tools.
Andre,

One of the really cool "value added" extras Thorn includes with every new complete Rohloff-equipped bike is a 2-in-1 or 3-in-1 bottom bracket eccentric tool. Though they vary by type (internal cabling vs external shift-box), the one for my Nomad Mk II incorporates a pin wrench for turning the eccentric to tension the chain, a 15mm pedal wrench that also fits the eccentric bolt heads, and...the 8mm socket for shifting the EX gearbox in the event the cables break. A gem! Mine =always= rides in my underseat bag. Available separately here:

https://www.sjscycles.co.uk/tools/thorn-3-in-1-bottom-bracket-eccentric-tool-for-73-mm-shell-raven-bikes/?geoc=US

Best,

Dan.
Title: Re: Rohloff wears out
Post by: Andre Jute on May 21, 2019, 02:03:43 AM
Superb tool!

Thanks for the info, Dan.
Title: Re: Rohloff wears out
Post by: Nashtah on May 21, 2019, 04:15:54 PM
When I true up a wheel, if there is any play in hub bearings, I certainly notice it.  The bike shop that I worked at many years ago would never have sold a bike to someone with that kind of play in the hub.  I am a little surprised that a wheel with that much play in the hub left Rodriquez shop in the first place.  Or was everything tight initially?

I am curious, was it a belt drive or chain drive?  The reason that I ask is that a belt puts more tension on the hub than a chain.  And it sounds like the failure occurred near where I would expect more stress on the hub to occur with a belt than with a chain.

You occasionally hear of a Rohloff with a serious problem soon after new, but you usually hear of skipping gears instead of total failure.  Major bummer. 

I only know one person that tours on a Rodriguez, she loves her dérailleur bike, is not a Rohloff.


The bike has a chain. 13 and 40 so the gear ratio was good as well. The wheel have been great and zero broken spokes with rim breaks.

I picked up the bike new in 2015 and that was the third large tour on the bike. That tour was a ten week tour. The reason I had called Rodriguez was that the play in the wheel was very new started the morning I called.

The real shock to me was being told all was well finish the tour and then send it in vs the failure. Also I had never heard of a loss of the ability to pedal in any gear only of the loss of some gears.

Title: Re: Rohloff wears out
Post by: mickeg on May 21, 2019, 08:32:12 PM
When I true up a wheel, if there is any play in hub bearings, I certainly notice it.  The bike shop that I worked at many years ago would never have sold a bike to someone with that kind of play in the hub.  I am a little surprised that a wheel with that much play in the hub left Rodriquez shop in the first place.  Or was everything tight initially?

I am curious, was it a belt drive or chain drive?  The reason that I ask is that a belt puts more tension on the hub than a chain.  And it sounds like the failure occurred near where I would expect more stress on the hub to occur with a belt than with a chain.

You occasionally hear of a Rohloff with a serious problem soon after new, but you usually hear of skipping gears instead of total failure.  Major bummer. 

I only know one person that tours on a Rodriguez, she loves her dérailleur bike, is not a Rohloff.


The bike has a chain. 13 and 40 so the gear ratio was good as well. The wheel have been great and zero broken spokes with rim breaks.

I picked up the bike new in 2015 and that was the third large tour on the bike. That tour was a ten week tour. The reason I had called Rodriguez was that the play in the wheel was very new started the morning I called.

The real shock to me was being told all was well finish the tour and then send it in vs the failure. Also I had never heard of a loss of the ability to pedal in any gear only of the loss of some gears.

Thanks for posting.  I would have assumed a belt, not a chain drive.  And I am surprised to hear that it happened a couple years after you got it with some good distance on the bike before the problem. 

With a 40 to 13 chainring to sprocket ratio, that is a hair over 3, the ratio I use for riding around home is 2.75 and for touring 2.25.  Thus I likely put a lot more torque on my hub than you put on yours.  Sounds like you just were very unlucky with a component that was probably defective but lasted for a few years before it finally decided to go.

Title: Re: Rohloff wears out
Post by: mickeg on May 21, 2019, 08:50:49 PM
...
One of the really cool "value added" extras Thorn includes with every new complete Rohloff-equipped bike is a 2-in-1 or 3-in-1 bottom bracket eccentric tool. ...

I was unaware of that tool.  I assumed only those of us with an S&S Nomad got a special tool.
https://www.sjscycles.co.uk/tools/thorn-s-and-s-5-in-1-spanner-wrench-special-coupling-eccentric-tool/

***

I have to remove the crank arms to get my bike into the S&S case.  Some of you might recall that I put self extractors on my square taper crank arms for my Iceland trip, thus no crank removal tool needed.  That is until one of the self extractors self extracted somewhere in the middle of Iceland.  Self extractors were a good idea, but failed in execution.

I recently bought a square taper crank arm removal tool that uses a 15mm wrench and 8mm allen wrench.  And the crankarm uses an 8mm long arm allen wrench.  No more lost self extractors for me.

I cut a short stub off of an 8mm allen wrench that I can stick through the 8mm box wrench on that Thorn S&S tool to use for removing crank arm bolts and then the 15mm wrench and 8mm stub will work on the removal tool.  Plus of course the 15mm wrench for pedal removal.

The crank tool is on the upper right, the 8mm allen wrench stub is under the inner tube rubber sleeve wrapped around the Thorn S&S wrench where it won't get lost.  Disregard the multi-tool in the photo, I cropped that photo out of a much larger one.
Title: Re: Rohloff wears out
Post by: sd on January 05, 2020, 02:34:14 PM
If it was to happen to me my Santos's have the fittings built in for a change to deraillures.  I doubt I will ever have any problems anyway. I am riding regularly at the moment with rear panniers front and back. front rack is Surly nice v2. I fill all the panniers  (carradice super c) with logs a decent weight so I better not have problems. 
PS my latest Santos is belt drive.  Not fitted a Surly rack yet waiting for it to arrive.