Thorn Cycles Forum
Community => Muppets Threads! (And Anything Else) => Topic started by: jags on June 04, 2018, 11:59:40 pm
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I reckon we are all getting ripped off big time with the price of bike's Thorn included.
for instance i was thinking of going Ebike but man the price is unreal up on 7000 are they having a laugh. but wait if i just buy front wheel and battery it will cost me £500 .
now if i was to sell my lovely top of the line Terry Dolan carbon jobby with full shimano 105 groupset all the usual bling i'd be lucky to get 800 euro for it .
something wrong somewhere ,these bike company's are pure gangsters if you ask me 8) :(
anyway i'm fed up with cycling this past 3 months or so, if i had a blow torch i'd melt both my overly priced bikes i reckon i was conned in paying out all that bloody money,as for tents don't get me started on those things they should be banned ,i could be wrong of course .
oh yeah Rohloff lads you guys need a really big bottle of cop on pills paying that kinda money :o
so there you go anto's giving up cycling im burning my tents in the morning theres going to be a big fire in the park tomorrow .
bye bye now
anto.
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Sounds like a bad day anto, it'll pass.
Whatever you fancy there'll be cheaper alternatives, but value like beauty is in the eye of the beholder.
If you're interested in electric conversions, there are some good buys round, several in the CTC group I ride with have them, it's kept them cycling after they may otherwise have given up. It also makes them popular into a headwind, no one else wants a turn on the front ;)
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My first electric motor/battery combo was the Bafang 8FUN kit, still sold in the UK for STG460 plus STG26 carriage to ireland for a complete kit of motor, battery, controller, and all wiring. This is for a rack-mount battery, but you should ask if they still offer the bottle battery that fits on the down-tube because it makes for a slightly better-balanced bike. If you can change a wheel on a bike and fit a bottle holder, you can install this kit; it took me less than half hour. Don't fall for the other ads on Ebay which offer cheaper motors or rubbishy batteries; those kits are not complete and will lead to no end of frustration, whereas the kit these Ecosmobile people sell is complete and everything of the best. See the recommended kit at https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/8Fun-Ebike-Electric-Bike-Conversion-Kit-36V-250W-20-26-700C-Wheel-/190694074560?var=&hash=item721d7621c7. If you get the kit with the bottle battery, you don't get the rack. I chose this kit as the best-value kit for an experiment to familiarize myself with the ins and outs of peddlers, always knowing that sooner or later I would need something quite a bit bigger. BTW, the three modes of operation offered by the controller with this kit is very, very important; many other kits offer only the pedelec mode, which is anti-intuitive (read "stupid") because it reduces motor effort just when you need it most; it is absolutely essential to have the throttle that comes standard with this kit.
My front motor lasted 3500 miles; I agree with Julian that you have to regard the motor as a consumable, and the battery too, though my battery that came with that kit was and is fine, and on standby as a backup for my current installation. I think though, that if you look after the electrical gear as well as you look after your bike, and if your bike isn't as heavy as mine, and you're lighter than me anyway, the Bafang motor could give you years of service, and anyway -- here's the big secret -- the motor itself, bare of battery and controller, only costs about Euro70 direct from China. I heartily recommend this kit as great value for the money, complete down to the last nut and bolt, backed by people who respond when required, as light as it is possible to go without buying trouble, and fun to use.
The newer centre motor kit I have now is also a Bafang 8FUN (no point in experimenting once you find the best manufacturer you can afford), but it is twice as expensive and some of the members on the forum thought installation was tricky enough to have it done by their supplier; the wiring is a bit trickier but I build tube amps with 1200+ volts on the plate, so I thought it a breeze working with 36V wiring; the biggest holdup is arranging so many wires tidily. I bought the motor and controller kit and wiring harness as one lot, and the battery separately, but from the same supplier who guaranteed that it would be a plug and play job, and it was. However, it is vital to your health that you do not reverse-wire the lipo battery (impossible with the first kit I described above because the controller is fitted with idiot proof sockets and plugs), so unless you are confident in your electrical skills, get someone who has a DMM and knows how to use it to help at the point where you connect bare wires for the final motor to battery connection (the rest is also idiot proof once you identify the little positioning lip and slot on the connectors). This is a kit that fits through the bottom bracket, so there's a bit more mechanicking involved in fitting it, so allow an hour before you can ride. Clearly, this centre-motor kit and its humongous battery is much heavier than the one described first, which is something else you have to keep in mind in your choice because the lighter the motor the less capable and maybe the sooner you burn it out, and the smaller the battery the less satisfactory it will be in operation, the greater the stress even normal operation will put on it, and the sooner it will wear out. It is especially important that you never drain the battery fully, and that you recharge it after even the shortest ride, religiously, just like you clean your bike.
Any questions, ask here; you'd be surprised at how many electrified bikes there are on this forum.
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http://
https://www.damianharriscycles.co.uk/prod/ele_0014_rm/riese-und-muller-charger-gx-rohloff-2017-bike
I'm seriously thinking of selling my Nomad and getting one of these after having a test run.
Bob
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Hmm. ???
I see in basic spec it weighs 27kg/59.5lbs and has somewhat limited cargo capacity: It will accept 20kg/44lb on the rear rack and 3kg/6.6lb on the front rack. Gross weight rating is 140kg/309lb.
Estimated minimum range: 40km/25mi
Estimated maximum range: 161km/100mi
100mm travel sus-fork requiring periodic maintenance compared to a rigid fork.
I'm afraid I'd be out of luck using this on my solo, self-supported desert tours where I must carry as much as 26.5l in water alone and am often 161-321km/100-200 miles away from services. I think my Nomad is a better choice for me.
All the best,
Dan.
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Dan
You need to get yourself a jeep. :)
Anto
You need to change your medication ;)
Bob
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Dan
You need to get yourself a jeep. :)
;D You may be right, Bob! ;D
All the best,
Dan.
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Dan
You need to get yourself a jeep. :)
Anto
You need to change your medication ;)
Bob
;D ;D ;D your not far wrong there Bob.
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Anto and no bikes impossible, at least not the Anto I know. One look at those bikes even with blowtorch in hand and you still wouldn't be able to damage them. The tents however, now that's a different matter. ;) ;)
I leave on Thursday to ride to Watlington on the same ride we did together a few years ago, taking the same route and camping on the same sites. I'll have some nice thoughts of that ride we did, especially on those lovely Cotswold climbs I know you enjoyed. :)
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Anto and no bikes impossible, at least not the Anto I know. One look at those bikes even with blowtorch in hand and you still wouldn't be able to damage them. The tents however, now that's a different matter. ;) ;)
I leave on Thursday to ride to Watlington on the same ride we did together a few years ago, taking the same route and camping on the same sites. I'll have some nice thoughts of that ride we did, especially on those lovely Cotswold climbs I know you enjoyed. :)
best tour i was even on Alan yeah those were are tough hills :o these days i would be walking up them that's for certain.enjoy the trip give my best to Rich and Dawn hope the craic is good.btw my birthday on friday 65.
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Anto, Happy Birthday for Friday.
Great that means you are officially retired so gives you more time to come over and do some hostel tours. Nice and easy at first to get you back to fitness;)
That makes me 10 years except for one week older than you, I shall be 75 on the 15th.
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66 retirement age here mores the pity i would have free travel and half price to pitch n putt club ;D ;DJune reminded me that my passport was 2 years out of date,i told her i wasn't going anywhere so leave it in the drawer ;D.
it must be 3 months since i cycled just no interest in the bikes at the moment ,the weather here is only fantastic great cycling weather for sure but my 2 bikes are just gathering dust in the spare room.
i'm playing a lot of pitch n putt i used to be very good at one time not any more but i'm having the craic with lads i know well. gets me out of the house if nothing else. ;D
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the weather here is only fantastic great cycling weather for sure but my 2 bikes are just gathering dust in the spare room.
And damn right too. You'd kill yourself in this heat if you went out for a proper cycle. I went as far as town just now and got home in a great old sweat in the grand total of 3km.
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to right Andre ;D ;D
i was playing PnP this morning the heat bet all.
Anto.
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Bob, I don't want to rain on your parade, but I looked into R+M a few years ago and decided their bikes are just too "special". Like Dan says, that suspension fork is immediately suspect even if you never go off the tarmac. If it lasts 3000km, you can come kick my butt around the block -- and I live on a block several klicks around. I've never had a front suspension fork that lasted even 1000m/1600km, except a very special item overbuilt by Shimano as an electronically adaptive suspension, and that was so insistent on protecting itself that I may as well have had a solid fork. And when the fork goes, and you decide to fit a solid fork instead, you'll have all kinds of problems because the geometry of suspension forks and solid forks are different -- and at that point you'll be back at Thorn because they build one of the few really good aftermarket sus-to-solid forks...
The second thing is that the R-M frame is so "special", it breaks the rules of stiff, reliable structures. Even its "integration" doesn't lead to decent loadability. Compare for instance the Tout Terrain, which is a serious touring bike with an integrated rack, or, if you want something with a special appearance that doesn't break the basic engineering rules, the Utopia Kranich, which has a 170kg load capability and has serious circumnavigation kudos -- and is very comfortable besides on its 60mm Big Apples, upon which the modern iteration was designed, quite literally.
R+M's claimed distances are out of kilter with the visible size of the battery, the second battery being an optional extra for only (!) £800. The battery on my bike is much bigger and, after about ten years of experience with electrified bikes, I reckon its safe range is probably 40-50km. That's the maximum, beyond which it is dicey whether you will get home, and beyond which you will also damage the battery by running it down to the dregs; such damage will cumulatively drastically reduce the battery's life span.
The next problem is also electrical and a bit tricky to understand. It has to do with the instantaneous demands you make on the battery for very short periods, like getting near the top of the hill and being unable to change down without stopping and thus mashing the throttle, thereby asking the battery for huge current, an overload to your normal demands. For this too a big battery is desirable, and a small battery will not only fail to deliver as much current but will have its lifespan cumulatively reduced by a greater fraction than the big battery. So, basically, that second battery isn't an option, it's a necessity. More about these coulombs at
http://thorncyclesforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=12916.msg96679#msg96679
Because of these considerations, one large battery will be infinitely superior to two small batteries for instant power and longevity both. You can buy a large, suitable battery for less than half of what R+M charge for a not-so-optional and still inadequate second battery.
Next problem: R+M are German and, like all good Germans, law-abiding to the point of severe irritation to Irish scofflaws. On a short ride you may not have discovered this, and the dealer would either not tell you or try to pretend it is a feature rather than a bug, but German electric bikes are, unless they're strictly intended for offroad work, which this particular R+M is not, pedelecs. A pedelec is an electrified bike in which the battery's power-input is directly proportionate to your input at the pedals; in short, when you need more, as on a hill, the pedelec gives less. It's very frustrating indeed. But German law forbids pedelecs to have a throttle, on which you can give the motor battery input suited to your own needs, more when the hill demands more from you, rather than the less of the pedelec. The pedelec is also subject to a whole bunch of other rules. On my Utopia Kranich, a bike from eminently law-abiding Germans (they wouldn't even supply me with a sprocket illegal, at the time, on a Rohloff, never mind fit it...), I bypassed these stupidities by electrifying my bike myself (at a fraction of the German cost for an inferior setup), and set it up with a throttle, a five-position power input (nine is actually possible but I don't see the need for more than five) by a button under my thumb for when I'm too lazy to hold down the throttle, and with the motor's output programmed to deliver a high, flat torque curve rather than high power. You can bet an R+M dealer, even if he has the tools and components to do this, will refuse to do any of it for you because he'd lose his franchise. But I got all these facilities, plus more that I didn't want but available mostly free on demand, from the British supplier of my motor, plug'n'play wiring harness which includes the necessary controllers, and battery.
One more thing: An electric motor installation is not a permanent capital asset; the whole thing is a consumptible that sooner or later you will have to replace, usually piecemeal if you fitted generic parts rather than proprietary parts. If you look after your battery, it is possible, even likely that the motor will wear out first, especially if you're heavy or a hard rider; that's certainly my experience. But the motor is the cheapest part of the installation -- unless you have to buy it from a German firm: then you'll get ripped. Ditto for batteries, even if, as is the case with the R+M, the battery on it is just a much smaller version (that's right, it's Chinese) of the precise large one I fitted.
Looks like you need more homework, Bob, or you'll be back here daily with (on-topic remark) your moan of the day.
As I said, I'm sorry to rain on your parade, but I'd expect you to do the same for me if I was going wrong somewhere you'd been already.
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Andre,
Thanks for your input, certainly food for thought.
I would be very disappointed if I only got 1000 miles from a Set of suspension forks.
I thought it was to power of the battery not the size which was important .
As far as carrying capacity is concerned I'm looking to cut down what I take on tour. I gone from 2 front and 2 rears and bar bag to 2 rears which are half empty and a bar bag.
My main concern not being able to fly with an electric bike.
Bob
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I thought it was to power of the battery not the size which was important .
Quite. A 14.5Ah battery, ceteris paribus, will have more coulombs and carry you further and offer a longer lifetime than one of 8.5Ah. Thus my remark that the battery on the R+M is visibly small. Once you know that all these lipo battery assemblies use cells of the same size, and that the Amp-hour rating is increased simply by adding more cells in parallel groups to make 36V (that R+M bike runs on 36V, doesn't it, not 24V, horrid thought), it is legitimate to eyeball a battery and judge its usefulness and longevity by its size. Of course, the dealer will tell you that the smaller battery is fitted to save weight; if he does, ask him politely why then he doesn't offer you half a dozen Bosch 36V drill batteries and a simple wiring rig (crocodile clips will do) so that you can carry only as many of the Bosch batteries as the length of the journey requires and leave the rest of the dead weight at home.
As far as carrying capacity is concerned I'm looking to cut down what I take on tour.
That R+M bike's peculiar structure makes me wonder whether it will survive as a touring bike, even if you stay well within its load limits, never mind Danneau-style Spartan expeditions. The weight of the bike, to which Dan drew attention, may indicate that the tubes were made thicker than normal to allow for the novel frame's lower stiffness when compared to a proper diamond frame, or it may be simple incompetence. (I had a Peugeot once, the most expensive bike they made, on which the tubes were so incompetently specified that bike had zero compliance and wrecked my back.) The fact that I could find only expensively written, meaningless, marketing gush about it, rather than a spec sheet with hard details like battery capacity or torsional resistance of the frame (a perfectly reasonable request for any bike that isn't a proven diamond shape), in addition makes me wonder whether it was even designed as a tourer outside the unstressed limits of Sunday afternoon cafe tours and Dutch vakansiefietse (holiday bikes for the Dutch managerial classes -- basically flatland commuters too expensive for the station run dollied up to look like luxurious tourers but usually followed by a sag wagon: these are not likely to survive outside Holland or Northern Germany; the front suspension fork on my very beautiful but in the end unsatisfactory Gazelle Toulouse vakansiefiets chucked in the towel under a thousand miles, and I hardly ever go off the tarmac, though it is true my tarmac is a bit, shall we say, rough). Nothing wrong with cafe tours or holidays on the Dutch flatlands, of course, -- hell, I'm a confirmed credit card tourer because my painting gear, which must always be instantly to hand, crowds out even a clean shirt -- but you, Bob, may have grander touring aspirations.
If you decide to buy the R+M, Bob, you should ascertain that the suspension fork has a standard 1-1/8in threadless headset steerer tube. If the steerer is threaded, regardless of diameter, or any of the odd "low profile" stupidities, the fork is a special, custom-order item, and ties you to the manufacturer of the bike, and then only for as long as he keeps spares, after which you junk the bike because you can't get spares. I mention this in particular because Dutch and German bike-makers, even those much bigger than R+M, have an irresponsible affection for 1in threaded suspension forks which they order direct from Taiwanese factories; check whether anybody you shop with still sells one of those at retail...
Lest anyone gets the idea that I have a special down on R+M, not so. I just have quite a bit of experience of special German, Dutch and generally Benelux bikes, and have fallen into their traps already -- and discovered that only Trek Benelux was interested in helping me reengineer the bike to meet their promises, and Trek isn't really a European firm but an American one with good old American customer-is-king attitudes. My Utopia is full of in-house custom-designed bits, but Utopia did something incredible smart: they let the manufacturers they chose make the parts royalty-free for sale to anyone, so that today these otherwise potentially unobtainable parts are actually common; one example is the Sapim "Strong" spoke, which a sensible spoke maker would never have designed so ugly, but which my bike's maker with its Bauhaus logic merely designed functionally; it comes with special Rohloff-angled heads too (Utopia was the first manufacturer to specify Rohloff hubs); the Big Apple tyre was developed specifically to act as the sole suspension element of my bike. Where Utopia gets too special for my taste, as in the fragile Country chaincase, before I ordered the bike I knew precisely where I could find a one-to-one replacement, in the case of the Country the sturdy Hebie Chainglider; I literally had a written list of replacement parts and dealers, down to the smallest component. And that on a bike with which, as a result of knowing precisely what I bought and what I would do with it, I have been very happy for ten years... You don't have to be that careful with a Thorn bike, because every component is conservatively chosen as a known good-value, reliably long-lasting part available off any discounter's shelf, and guaranteed to be available for a good long while.
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It is destined to be only a short while before power assisted bikes will require registration and tags. And I guess that makes sense as it is a motorized vehicle. The more people get on board that faster that day will come.
Me? I'd rather stop farting around in the middle and just go to an off road Motorcycle. It's actually a larger workout than many would ever expect and there is the same freedom and ability to go slow, carry a lot of gear and get the heck away from the frenzy of life a while. It just doesn't seem so epic to cross the continent as on one's own power thought.
But the prices are near obscene. Many sports and hobbies have become fetiches in my opinion as they become "lifestyle" escapes for masses of disconnected humans. Aside from the difficulty of finding enough coin under the sofa cushions, I hate the feeling of being a sucker. I've been getting that feeling more and more over the last few years.
But - burning tents? NO don't do it. Never destroy a religions iconography. You will be lost, alone in the desert with no way back other than the dreaded credit-card.
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Many sports and hobbies have become fetiches in my opinion as they become "lifestyle" escapes for masses of disconnected humans.
Never a truer word.
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we are all been taken to the cleaners with the crazy prices on bikes especially Ebikes . :'(
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we are all been taken to the cleaners with the crazy prices on bikes especially Ebikes . :'(
Speak for yourself ;)
My bikes have provided excellent value for money.
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you only think that.
you could buy a really class reliable bike for the price of a rohloff .
get good cheap bike the pilot will do the rest.
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Like bikes some pilots are better than others . That's why an electric bike is a good idea .🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
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you only think that.
you could buy a really class reliable bike for the price of a rohloff .
get good cheap bike the pilot will do the rest.
Well I've ridden it around 75,000 miles so I think I've got a better idea of the value it's given me than you have.
Big initial expense, then really cheap running costs, worth every penny.
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sounds like triggers brush to me.great miles for sure but sora would do the same miles no problem if you look after it am i right or am i right. ;)
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sounds like triggers brush to me.great miles for sure but sora would do the same miles no problem if you look after it am i right or am i right. ;)
No you're wrong, very wrong. Do the maths, work out how much you've spent in the last (Say) 10,000 miles and I'll bet I've spent less ;)
Work out how much you've spent on your bikes, how much they'd sell for, and that difference is the cost. Mile for mile your Dolan will have been a much more expensive bike than my Rohloff, go on tell me I'm wrong.
I know how much I was spending on keeping a bike fit for work, that's why I bought the rohloff, it paid for itself a long time ago and since then has been saving me money ;D
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Sorry Anto your wrong.
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'Cept for my late father's 1938 coaster-brake bike I inherited, the oldest in my own stable are two dating from 1970. Still ridden regularly by me. They don't owe me much anymore. ;)
Still, I can't really put a price on my bicycles. I love them all equally but differently and each gives me great pleasure to ride, so all have been great value to me over the time I've owned them.
Best,
Dan.
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Yip your wrong way wrong.take my raleigh with campag record probably twenty thousant on that my look had probably 14on it both were still in top class worki.g order I have a fair few miles on my audax still perfect none of those bikes cost as much as a rohlof bike. The dolan only comes out when the sun shines but it will never let me down none of mybikes ever let me down simply because i look after them.what about all the guys that toured the anet on off the peg bikes even if they did replace parts it comes no where near t he price of a rohloff.your been brainwashed into thing your saving yourself money.
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Btw PH im not ha ing a go at you or any other rohloff owners but man you got to admit there way over priced same goes for bikes in general .guy i n our group rides an 8000 carbon bike give me a break they seen him coming.
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Well im off to me cot no matter what ride safe.
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I was reading the latest Cyclist magazine whilst waiting to get what's left of my hair cut in the barbers yesterday. I couldn't believe the cost of the bikes advertised or reviewed in there, £8000 would be on the lower end of the scale. Handlebars £650, Campag Super Record £2700, shoes £300. I think they are definitely cashing in on the cycling trend.
I bought my RST 7 years ago, it was treble what I'd ever spent on a bike before so to justify it I worked out that if I commuted to work for 21,000 miles it would pay for itself in fuel savings alone. I passed that mark not long ago so now I am in credit plus the bike is still worth about a grand. I've no doubt that a cheaper derailleur bike would have done the job just as well but I love the fact that the rohloff bike needs very little maintenance and is a lot easier to clean.
My chief moan is the cyclists that don't acknowledge you when they pass by. It seems to be getting worse with each passing year, especially the racing types in full team kit. I can guarantee they will be back in their cars come October whilst I'm battling a head on gale force wind at 5am, rant over. :D
Neil
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I know how much I was spending on keeping a bike fit for work, that's why I bought the rohloff, it paid for itself a long time ago and since then has been saving me money ;D
There are even cheaper ways of saving money and, more important for me, maintenance time, on a commuting bike - Sturmey Archer 3-speed or the older Sturmey Archer 5-speeds (newer ones weren't reliable). Most of my commuting from 1980 to 2012 was done on Sturmey Archer hub gears, fitted to second-hand bicycles that I got for next to nothing. Compared to derailleurs, hub gears get rid of front and rear derailleur, reduce the number of sprockets and chainrings, so easier to clean. And the chain/chainring/sprocket generally last longer, even without a Chainglider.
Pushed to the extreme, single-speed or fixed should be even cheaper, but I found these options too hard on my knees.
But the limited gearing of 3 to 5 speed hub gears is only practical if you don't live somewhere too hilly. Rohloff sorts that.
Nowadays, Nexus or Alfine 8-speed hub gears might be good alternatives in moderately hilly areas. These 8-speeds have been around for a few years, so their initial defects have mostly been corrected. They don't have the same gear range or reputation for reliability as a Rohloff, but can be had for about a tenth of the price. The Nexus SG-C6010-8RV Premium hub is currently less than £70 from SJS, so about £100 counting the shifter, sprocket, and other necessary fittings.
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sounds like triggers brush to me.great miles for sure but sora would do the same miles no problem if you look after it am i right or am i right. ;)
Anto
I’m with you; my Super Galaxy debunks the stated economic myth.
You have to remember there are a few know-all folks that go around different forums arguing to the “nth degree” in an attempt to show how clever they are, when they are not.
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Yip your wrong way wrong.take my raleigh with campag record probably twenty thousant on that my look had probably 14on it both were still in top class worki.g order I have a fair few miles on my audax still perfect none of those bikes cost as much as a rohlof bike. The dolan only comes out when the sun shines but it will never let me down none of mybikes ever let me down simply because i look after them.what about all the guys that toured the anet on off the peg bikes even if they did replace parts it comes no where near t he price of a rohloff.your been brainwashed into thing your saving yourself money.
Campag Record groupset list price - £1,795
Rohloff list price - £799 to £939 + brakes, chain. BB and chainset to make it match what you get in a groupset
Campag record cassette RRP £261.99 - £364.99
Rohloff Sprocket £12.99 (and it's reversible)
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My GP and my cardiologist are both convinced that if it weren't for my cycling, I'd be dead. That's a killer (sorry!) argument that trumps whatever money and time I spent on bicycles since I gave up the car c1990.
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Yip your wrong way wrong.take my raleigh with campag record probably twenty thousant on that my look had probably 14on it both were still in top class worki.g order I have a fair few miles on my audax still perfect none of those bikes cost as much as a rohlof bike. The dolan only comes out when the sun shines but it will never let me down none of mybikes ever let me down simply because i look after them.what about all the guys that toured the anet on off the peg bikes even if they did replace parts it comes no where near t he price of a rohloff.your been brainwashed into thing your saving yourself money.
Campag Record groupset list price - £1,795
Rohloff list price - £799 to £939 + brakes, chain. BB and chainset to make it match what you get in a groupset
Campag record cassette RRP £261.99 - £364.99
Rohloff Sprocket £12.99 (and it's reversible)
Maybe you need to compare like with like, first it’s economics and now it’s new price. Also I am sure that those purchasing a new Campag group set would not be interested in any hub gear.
Leaving in the next hour for at least a 10 day tour maybe longer with my wife. I shall be riding my Super Galaxy with hubs, gears and chainrings that cost less than £100 in 1998. Since then it may have had another £170 or so spent on cassettes chains and chainrings. Total mileage of the bike well over 100.000.
[Post edited to remove reference to another member in response to a complaint. -- Dan.]
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Does it really matter who has what or how much they have sent. We are all different and as long as we are enjoying our cycling that's the main thing.
Bob
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Does it really matter who has what or how much they have sent. We are all different and as long as we are enjoying our cycling that's the main thing.
I agree with Bob. "Vive la différence" and to each his or her own. Thorn make bikes for each and both. There is no "argument" to be won here and each choice has its adherents.
The cost comparisons between derailleur and Rohloff drivetrains have been well documented on the Rohloff board and elsewhere on the Forum and we're not making much headway here. While the general topics on the Muppets Board are more free than elsewhere, the tone and levels of discourse are the same as elsewhere on the Forum.
Since things are heating up both on and behind the scenes, I am locking this thread for now.
Best,
Dan.