Thorn Cycles Forum
Technical => Wheels, Tyres and Brakes => Topic started by: lestat_12345 on May 24, 2018, 09:26:35 pm
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I'm thinking of adding a rear disk brake to my Nomad - preferably a mechanical one like the TRP. Does anyone on this forum have this setup? Is it recommended? I remember reading somewhere in one of the Thorn brochures that a disk brake can place a lot of force/strain on the frame and lead to problems as a result. I currently use a CSS rim on the back and a normal rim on the front but find braking in the wet severly lacking. I'm hoping a rear disk brake will fix this issue. I live in Scotland where it rains every other day although we have had a good spell of weather recently.
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I do. I live in Vancouver, so same weather as Scotland, and I wanted good braking in the rain. I have a TRP Spyke brake on the rear, and it works great. (I have a Shimano V-brake on the front.)
Some mechanical disk brakes are wide, and interfere with the rack. The Spyke fits nicely. My only complain is that the adjustment screw in the center of the brake is behind my rack strut. I have a Tubus rack, not a Thorn, so it may be better with a Thorn rack. You can see the adjustment screw in this photo.
https://www.trpcycling.com/product/spyke/ (https://www.trpcycling.com/product/spyke/)
It is the small screw that is above and to the right of the main pivot. It is above the "y" in "spyke". It is the screw in the middle of the pivot, and is for adjusting the pads laterally on the disk. The small screw at above the main pivot goes through the "ears" of the pads and holds them in place. On my bike, this small screw is easily accessible.
The force on the frame caused by disk brakes is a concern for front brakes, where the fork can bend. I have not heard of any such concern for rear brakes. If it was a concern, they would not have a mounting bracket for rear disk brakes. In any case, the Nomad has an extra brace between the seat stay and the chain stay.
If you have any more questions, post them here, and I will try to answer them for you.
- DaveS
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It's the Spyke I was looking at. Can you recommend a 4 bolt rotor for this or will any 160mm rotor do? I bought a second hand Rohloff already built into a Mavic rim with a rotor attached.
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Short answer: What you already have should be good.
Long answer:
Any Rohloff-specific disk should work. It needs to be Rohloff-specific, because Rohloff has a 4-bolt pattern, instead of the usual 6-bolt pattern. I'm not aware of any standard for 4 bolts, so having 4 bolts does not automatically mean it will fit the Rohloff.
I'm going by memory, but I think all disks are a standard thickness, so no issue there. The rear disk should be 160mm diameter.
- DaveS
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You are right that a frame gets a lot of stress from a disc brake. But the Nomad frame which can take the stress of a Rohloff on the dropout should be able to take the stress. Don't worry about it.
If you put a disc on the rear and use V brake on the front, you might consider switching your CSS rim to the front - but that would only work if both front and rear have the same number of spoke holes.
I use V brakes on my Nomad, so I can't comment on fitting of a rack on the Nomad with a disc. But I use a disc (TRP Spyre) in the rear on my Lynskey Backroad (a titanium derailleur fitted touring bike) and a V brake (with Koolstop Salmon pads) on the front. Thus, with both a V brake and disc brake on the same bike I can compare them. (Simpson also has both types on one bike, as he noted.) I find that the V brake in dry conditions seems to work a little better than the disc brake, but in wet conditions the disc brake is clearly better. On that bike, my rim brake is not on a CSS rim.
The Spyre instructions recommended compressionless housing, which I used for most of my cable run. I do not know if that is important or not, but I think that my brake action feels better than it would otherwise if I did not use compressionless housing. Note that brake cable housing that is compressionless is different than shifter compressionless housing. You cannot use shifter housing for braking, you must use brake housing.
I have never used any disc other than the TRP Spyre, so I can't compare. But I think that the TRP mechanical brakes that actuate a pad from both sides instead the disc brake units that actuate only one side make a lot of sense. Last month I was on a trip and someone had problems with her non-TRP brake. I tried to adjust it so that it did not rub, it would have been a lot easier to adjust her brake if she had a TRP.
The photo is of my Spyre on my Lynskey. It is mounted on the chainstay, not the seatstay like on the Nomad. Thus, I have no clue if your rack would fit with that brake or not. And if you could put both the brake and rack on the bike, would the rack interfere with your ability to adjust the brake?
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I have a Spyre on the rear of my mercury, it works fine. Though I'd agree with this from DaveS
Short answer: What you already have should be good.
Particularly as most of your braking ability is from the front wheel - with the same brake the stopping distance from rear only would be twice that of front only, and the fastest way to safely stop a bike is with a front brake hard enough to be close to lifting the rear wheel. However much you were to improve the rear braking it isn't going to be a great improvement on the overall stopping ability and IMO it'd better to find ways to improve that.
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Sorry, my comment was ambiguous. When I said that what he had was good, I meant the disk that he had should work.
I agree that in dry conditions, V-brakes will be as good at stopping as disk brakes. But in the wet, I have found disk brakes to be much better than rim brakes.
- DaveS
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In a previous post (reply #1 in this thread), I was wrong about the adjustment screw. I have corrected that post above.
- DaveS
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I'm thinking of adding a rear disk brake to my Nomad.
Not yet had disk brakes (I have in the past used coaster brakes, and currently have rear roller and drum brakes respectively on two family bikes). An advantage of non-rim brakes is less muck sprayed off the rims and onto the chain, this is not relevant if using a Chainglider.
The rear brake is less effective than the front, so for better wet-weather performance you might also need to improve the front. I find Koolstop Salmon brake pads (V-brakes) or Aztec brake pads (cantilever brakes) work well enough for me on non-CSS rims.
CSS rims have been reported to be less effective than normal rims in the wet. I have CSS front and rear on my Raven Tour, but have not yet had any issues.
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Sorry, my comment was ambiguous. When I said that what he had was good, I meant the disk that he had should work.
Ahh, my misunderstanding.
My point still remains - that the rear brake has little impact on stopping distance compared to the front, assuming the limiting factor is the contact with the surface, off road different rules apply!
This might be worth a read;
http://sheldonbrown.com/brakturn.html
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Can anyone tell me if a Rohloff hub wheel that uses a disk brake needs to be dished? Also, will the TRP Spyke disk brake work with Shimano deore v-brake levers?
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On the first point I would say probably not dished. Mine has been converted and the hub shell with both flanges hasn't been changed, also the online spoke calculator I use only has one Rohloff option and that has equal spoke lengths. Those two things make me 99.9% certain...
On the second point, I'm 100% they work fine together as those are the levers and brake I'm using.
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Yes, I can also confirm it. I built a wheel using a disk Rohloff, and there is no dish. All of the spokes have the same length. And I am using a TRP Spyke brake with Shimano Deore v-brake levers.
- DaveS
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In my previous post I suggested you consider moving your CSS rim to the front, but if that rim has Rohloff drilling and your front rim does not, that was a bad suggestion on my part - disregard it.
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I'm still of the opinion that before spending money on the rear brake doing everything possible to maximise the front braking would be time and money better spent.
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Well I've got XT brakes on the front using salmon pads. But I feel that using these to brake in the rain, combined with my rear CSS rims, is severely lacking - especially downhill and fully loaded.
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I assume you mean the Koolstop Salmon pads, I can't think of anything better on a regular (non-CSS) rim.
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I assume you have not invested anything into this project yet. So, I will mention one other option for you to compare prices on. There now is an Nomad fork that can take a disc brake.
https://www.sjscycles.co.uk/forks/48-26-650b-thorn-nomad-disc-fork-yellow-gloss/?geoc=US
https://www.sjscycles.co.uk/forks/48-26-650b-thorn-nomad-disc-fork-matt-black-powder/?geoc=US
Thus, you could leave your Rohloff hub untouched and keep using rim brakes on your rear CSS rim. You I assume would need a new front hub, you could avoid buying the special four bolt Rohloff disc and use a standard disc, new spokes for the front wheel, maybe the cost to build up a new wheel on either your existing rim or a new rim, etc. I have no idea if you use a dynohub or not, etc.
I do not know which would cost more, the disc on front or disc on rear, but you might want to do that research.
If you replace the fork, you might want to get a new crown headset race installed on the fork before they ship it to you. You would also need a new star nut. And, I have no idea if you would need to cut the steerer tube or not.
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Well I've got XT brakes on the front using salmon pads. But I feel that using these to brake in the rain, combined with my rear CSS rims, is severely lacking - especially downhill and fully loaded.
Which makes it all the more puzzling, I have the same brakes, pads and Deore levers - I'm 95 kg and often carrying luggage. I don't know what to suggest, having swapped components from a bike with Vs on both wheels to V front and disk rear, there hasn't been any noticeable reduction in the stopping distances.
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I'd second George's idea for front disc brake rather than rear if you need more rapid wet-weather braking. Or go the whole hog and fit discs front and rear. Personally, I find the factor that limits braking is tyre adhesion.
Cantilever front and U-brake rear (both rim brakes) were quite sufficient for me with an all-up weight of about 115 kg on wet mountain descents in the Picos d'Europa, but I expect discs would have had a much quicker response in the wet (lock the wheel quicker).
I had two braking issues on that tour. First issue was having to stop and wait to cool the rims on long, twisty descents, when it wasn't possible to go fast and use wind resistance as a brake (IIRC I had to stop twice in 3300 kms). This only happened in dry conditions as heavy rain water-cools the rims. The other issue was the muck sprayed off the rear rim getting onto the chain, this happens with all rim brakes but is even worse with a U-brake.
I don't think there is an easy solution to the first issue (discs can also overheat). I solved the second issue on my current touring bike by fitting a Chainglider.
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Well I've got XT brakes on the front using salmon pads. But I feel that using these to brake in the rain, combined with my rear CSS rims, is severely lacking - especially downhill and fully loaded.
Which makes it all the more puzzling, I have the same brakes, pads and Deore levers - I'm 95 kg and often carrying luggage. I don't know what to suggest, having swapped components from a bike with Vs on both wheels to V front and disk rear, there hasn't been any noticeable reduction in the stopping distances.
The CSS rim braking thing is a mystery. There are lots of reports of problems in the wet but I really haven't ever experienced anything untoward. I recently replaced my front rim with a standard grizzly and I am already on the second set of pads. When this wears I'll go back to CSS on front and back. If disks were available I probably would try them although I would not expect a great improvement.
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Martin is right: Under any and all circumstance the friction between the tyre and the road determines and limits braking power.
Furthermore, I'd be most surprised to discover even one rear disc brake/front whatever other brake that is more effective than rim brakes all round; the rear brake takes care of perhaps 20% of braking, and that would be under the most favourable circumstances; normally it would contribute less, usually only keeping the bike straight and the rear wheel from overtaking the front. It seems to me a disc only on the rear wheel, unless it solves some other problem, typically on converted bikes, is likely to be wasted.
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A couple of other braking options that are sometimes overlooked:
a) Shimano's roller brakes are a killer option. I don't know what model number they're up to now, but I have the -70 series roller brakes on my Trek Smover bike and they're as good as discs, except better in that nothing can splash on them because they're fully enclosed. Personally, I hate disc brakes and roller brakes both because they demand too much of my attention under threat of a faceplant through too-sudden braking, but there is no doubt in my mind that both offer tip-top braking. The Shimano roller brakes are compatible with Shimano hub dynamos and their reaction arm attaches to standard disc brake fork-side fittings. A novel use of earlier, weaker Shimano roller brakes is to fit the modern hugely effective roller brake on the front wheel, and an earlier series (I used the -41) on the rear for a very agreeable form of anti-skid braking, though you cannot do this on a Rohloff-equipped bike as there are no roller brakes that will fit a Rohloff's four disc bolts. Roller brakes require a service of a special grease squeezed in through a nipple on the outside which can be usefully combined with the Rohloff oil change and EXT click box service.
b) Having said that, on my current daily bike, which I've kept longer than any other bike, I have the biggest hydraulic disc brakes you can fit, front and rear. They're a full 622mm, over two feet across, near enough rim size. They're misnomered Magura Hydraulic Rim Brakes, they're sealed for life, they're never serviced though rebuilding parts and fluids are readily available if you can be bothered (the rebuilding parts and fluids add up to around half the street price of simply fitting brand-new when the old ones suffer some incident; like a Rohloff, they don't seem to wear out). The great thing about the Magura Hydraulic Rim Brakes is that the ones that fit touring bikes once upon a time came in two versions with different size chambers. I deliberately specified the weaker version for more progressive braking; I've never once wished for stronger brakes. (When the usual testorone-for-brains jerks on a bike tech conference I belong to sneered and screeched about how real men need the biggest, harshest brakes imaginable, a famous bike mechanic remarked that actually mine were the biggest disc brakes: full rim size.) As a small bonus, the Magura rim brakes are very economical on brake blocks, and your rims too. If your bike has the fittings for the Magura Hydraulic Rim brakes (if you"re lucky, it's a straight swap for the non-hydraulic fitted brake), I highly recommend them for touring bikes as a perfect, service and glitch free component. BTW, you can buy the cheaper version (HS11) with confidence. Technically it is the same as the more expensive version, just presented differently (and I think more attractively), as Magura no longer offers two chamber sizes in that line. The last time I looked there were several other types of the Magura Hydraulic Rim Brakes for different niches, including some with greater clamping force; if you consider these, you need to pay careful attention to the tyre width it will fit over. If you want to adjust the clamping strength of the touring type it is easily done by fitting or removing the so-called "brake booster", which is an upside-down U-shaped device for reacting brake torque before it gets to the fork; I specified my bike without; if your daily commute is over the Alps, by all means fit it, but for normal riding it is dead weight (if men can self-identify as women, I can self-identify as a weight weenie!). Magura's rim hydraulics are sold singly or in pairs at a saving over buying two singles; front and rear brakes differ only in the length of prefilled tubing and each is fully-selfcontained.
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I did look at the Magura Hydraulic Rim Brake but I read somewhere that these will not fit on the Nomad. Maybe I'm mistaken but I'm sure it was someone from SJS/Thorn, on this forum, that said this.
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Shimano's roller brakes are a killer option.
I have about 7000 kms of experience with Shimano roller brakes on rear wheels, and currently have one on my large visitor bike, where it has replaced the U-brake, a roller brake was the only other option when using a Nexus Premium 8 hub gear on this bike.
My take on roller brakes (I have the older BR-IM41 and BR-IM50 models) :
- as for all hub brakes, cleaner than rim brakes and less affected by wet conditions.
- useful on some small wheel bikes, I found rim brakes were borderline on the old Moulton 16" wheel bikes I used to have - coaster, drum and roller brakes worked much better.
- I don't like the feel - the roller brakes I have used seem a bit all or nothing, even when regularly greased with the recommended special Shimano grease. So I wouldn't want to have one on the front wheel.
- no good for hilly touring. On long hills the brake gets hot and melts the grease, which then runs down the spokes.
Not relevant for hilly touring or Rohloff use, but my favourite non-rim brake is a drum brake. I still have one on the rear of the small visitor bike (but due to be replaced soon by a Thorn Raven Tour Step Through with modern V-brakes). I find Sturmey-Archer drum brakes are less harsh than roller or coaster brakes, more or less completely unaffected by weather, and require virtually no maintenance. The larger Atom drum brake I once had on a tandem worked similarly.
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I did look at the Magura Hydraulic Rim Brake but I read somewhere that these will not fit on the Nomad. Maybe I'm mistaken but I'm sure it was someone from SJS/Thorn, on this forum, that said this.
Yes, answering your question!
http://thorncyclesforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=12451.0
I had them on my Raven for a while, good brakes but couldn't stop them squealing and when I changed to CSS rims there weren't the appropriate pads available.
When I built up the Mercury, I used compression-less cable on the front V brake (the off cut from the one on the rear disc) mainly to have matching cables but I'm pretty sure it also improves the braking slightly.
I don't want to sound like I'm trying to teach anyone to suck eggs, but care taken getting the cable cuts perfect is worth while as are good quality ferrules, more so than many people realise. I've improved the braking on new bikes by re-doing it! I also set my brakes with good clearance, this gives more movement in the levers before the brakes engage than is usual, not enough for the levers to come back to the bars but not far short. Hands are naturally stronger at that point, the only minor disadvantage is that they require more frequent adjustment.
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My bad PH, I realised I had a previous post regarding the Magura's after I made my last comment. I'm getting old and the memory ain't as good as it was.
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...getting old and the memory ain't as good as it was.
You're not the only one. Now that Paul has told us, I too remember that post last year... Apologies for sending your thread off in the wrong direction.
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...getting old and the memory ain't as good as it was.
You're not the only one. Now that Paul has told us, I too remember that post last year... Apologies for sending your thread off in the wrong direction.
My memory isn't any better than anyone else's, I was interested to see if the subject had come up before and did a search...
I also have a vague memory of there being another reason Thorn discouraged the use of maguras, but I can't find anything to substantiate it so I could be wrong.
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I also have a vague memory of there being another reason Thorn discouraged the use of maguras, but I can't find anything to substantiate it so I could be wrong.
I think it might be because repairing hydraulics on a world tour is more difficult than replacing a V-brake cable. Which is one of my own reasons for not having Magura rim brakes or (any) disc brakes on a touring bike.
I don't do expedition touring, but I reckon I could get repairs, workable spares or replacements for most of my bike components fairly easily in most small towns in the areas where I have toured, with the one notable exception of the Rohloff hub. The latter is supposed to break very infrequently, and Thorn/Rohloff seem to have a pretty good reputation of getting spares to remote places in a fairly short time.
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The sign says you can't buy fuel for your car or truck for 205 km, and if you can't buy motor fuel you certainly can't buy much else.
I never saw a bike shop when I did my Iceland tour. But I met several people that were limping along on bikes that had some form of difficulty. I agree with MartinF in that I would never use hydraulics on a tour either.
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I was reminded of this thread today whilst walking a loaded bike down a steep ramp - apply the rear brake and the wheel just locks and the bike keeps moving, apply the front and I could stop the bike in an instant. Yes of course the dynamics are different, but I believe the principle is the same.
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I assume you mean the Koolstop Salmon pads, I can't think of anything better on a regular (non-CSS) rim.
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I assume you have not invested anything into this project yet. So, I will mention one other option for you to compare prices on. There now is an Nomad fork that can take a disc brake.
https://www.sjscycles.co.uk/forks/48-26-650b-thorn-nomad-disc-fork-yellow-gloss/?geoc=US
https://www.sjscycles.co.uk/forks/48-26-650b-thorn-nomad-disc-fork-matt-black-powder/?geoc=US
Thus, you could leave your Rohloff hub untouched and keep using rim brakes on your rear CSS rim. You I assume would need a new front hub, you could avoid buying the special four bolt Rohloff disc and use a standard disc, new spokes for the front wheel, maybe the cost to build up a new wheel on either your existing rim or a new rim, etc. I have no idea if you use a dynohub or not, etc.
I do not know which would cost more, the disc on front or disc on rear, but you might want to do that research.
If you replace the fork, you might want to get a new crown headset race installed on the fork before they ship it to you. You would also need a new star nut. And, I have no idea if you would need to cut the steerer tube or not.
I too am of the opinion that such is the best way to proceed. If I could still cycle, that would be my approach. I think that for a light thin wheel and tire a lot of difference in ride can be in the forks, but with the width of tyres and sturdy overbuilt tubes of a touring bike, the impact of the front forks is more theoretical than real. As such, I'd have no problems going to disk brakes with those Godzilla inspired front disk Nomad forks.
Seven overweight elephants could not bend the rear stays on a Nomad. No thinking need be done.
My own hesitation towards going to a disk setup is how fiddly disk brakes can be. But the thought of 650B tires, for me, wins the day. Or would - if I still could. :)
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I also have a vague memory of there being another reason Thorn discouraged the use of maguras, but I can't find anything to substantiate it so I could be wrong.
I think it might be because repairing hydraulics on a world tour is more difficult than replacing a V-brake cable. Which is one of my own reasons for not having Magura rim brakes or (any) disc brakes on a touring bike.
I don't do expedition touring, but I reckon I could get repairs, workable spares or replacements for most of my bike components fairly easily in most small towns in the areas where I have toured, with the one notable exception of the Rohloff hub. The latter is supposed to break very infrequently, and Thorn/Rohloff seem to have a pretty good reputation of getting spares to remote places in a fairly short time.
Cable-discs have now been improved substantially with much more effective mechs. I even noticed that a friend who had a Topeak disc-corrected rack fail on him on tour, actually had clearance from his rear cable-disc brake to fit a standard Tubus Logo rack (MUCH stronger).
In all the time that I rode my Hayes hydraulic disc MTB dually I never had cause to do very much at all to the hose nor fluid, and it never failed on me in all sorts of rugged and testing riding. On top of that, the hydros used bog-standard DOT 4 fluid that any car mechanic can work with. A fluid change kit was a small repair item to carry.
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I assume you have not invested anything into this project yet. So, I will mention one other option for you to compare prices on. There now is an Nomad fork that can take a disc brake.
https://www.sjscycles.co.uk/forks/48-26-650b-thorn-nomad-disc-fork-yellow-gloss/?geoc=US
https://www.sjscycles.co.uk/forks/48-26-650b-thorn-nomad-disc-fork-matt-black-powder/?geoc=US
This is astounding news. Thank the deities that the lads at Thorn have seen the light and finally brought a front disc fork to market. I shall be scoping out all the costs to convert to discs all around. Not going to be cheap (new SON28, new Rohloff, disc brakes plus discs), but it shall happen eventually!
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Hey, welcome back, Pete! Need more voices from Down Unda, not to mention your excellent photos, and long experience with these boikes of ours.
Cheers, John
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... Thank the deities that the lads at Thorn have seen the light and finally brought a front disc fork to market. I shall be scoping out all the costs to convert to discs all around. Not going to be cheap (new SON28, new Rohloff, disc brakes plus discs), but it shall happen eventually!
I built up another bike last year (not Thorn, a Titanium bike), the frame was only available in disc. I bought the frame but saved some money by not buying their fork, used an older fork that I already had. My fork was a rim brake fork. Thus, that bike has rim brake front and disc on rear. Quite frankly I am quite happy with the rim braking on that bike. The only exception to my preference for rim brakes is that when raining, the disc is better.
But if you think you need a front disc that much, go for it.
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I assume you have not invested anything into this project yet. So, I will mention one other option for you to compare prices on. There now is an Nomad fork that can take a disc brake.
https://www.sjscycles.co.uk/forks/48-26-650b-thorn-nomad-disc-fork-yellow-gloss/?geoc=US
https://www.sjscycles.co.uk/forks/48-26-650b-thorn-nomad-disc-fork-matt-black-powder/?geoc=US
This is astounding news. Thank the deities that the lads at Thorn have seen the light and finally brought a front disc fork to market. I shall be scoping out all the costs to convert to discs all around. Not going to be cheap (new SON28, new Rohloff, disc brakes plus discs), but it shall happen eventually!
Pete,
You really need a new bike.
What about a Raven this time?
BTW what are your current thoughts on the CSS rims and the V brake blue pads?
Mike
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Hello Mike
I really should go and join KBTC on a ride some day ::) I believe that you may see my wife often enough on Sundays as you ride along the Dandenong Creek Trail and she is riding her Rohloff-equipped Giant Sedona to church at Boronia.
As for new bikes, the most likely candidate for us would be two Bike Friday New World Tourists to make international travel easier, or a Riese & Muller Load e-cargobike as a car-replacement.
The CSS rims have been great and are now up to 50,000 kms with the CSS seemingly rubbed off finally on the brake-track. The Swissstop Blue pads have been great for all sorts of braking, with only one or two times in cold, heavy rain when the braking was less-than desirable. I was caught out on Tuesday by the heavy rain and had a disturbingly poor braking experience on the descent of Boronia Rd to the right turn into Morack Rd. This got me thinking that maybe I am now better off with regular Koolstop Salmon pads rather than the Swisstop Blue. I will trial some regular pads as a stop-gap for the time being, but I have now ordered a disc-fork and a SON28 disc hub to convert the front end. Doing the rear end with a new Rohloff (or maybe new Rohloff shell) is a more complex and expensive step.
I shall try to keep you posted.
[edit] I was wrong, the CSS rims are only up to 41,000 kms at present. Fully expect to get over 60,000 kms of life from them however.
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The CSS rims have been great and are now up to 50,000 kms with the CSS seemingly rubbed off finally on the brake-track. The Swissstop Blue pads have been great for all sorts of braking, with only one or two times in cold, heavy rain when the braking was less-than desirable. I was caught out on Tuesday by the heavy rain and had a disturbingly poor braking experience on the descent of Boronia Rd to the right turn into Morack Rd. This got me thinking that maybe I am now better off with regular Koolstop Salmon pads rather than the Swisstop Blue. I will trial some regular pads as a stop-gap for the time being,
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Going from the Swisstop Blue to Koolstop Salmon is going from one extreme to the other. Some run of the mill average pads might work pretty well while the Salmon pads may be too much.
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I have now ordered a disc-fork and a SON28 disc hub to convert the front end. Doing the rear end with a new Rohloff (or maybe new Rohloff shell) is a more complex and expensive step.
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I think that SJS can replace the non-disc shell piece with the disc variety pretty easily. I am sure it is costly when you add in the Rohloff specific disc and a disc brake unit, but so is a new fork and new SON dynohub.
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Front Thorn disc-fork, and the SON28 disc-hub have now arrived. Next decision is what type of disc brake to get - Cable or hydraulic? My LBS recommends cable-discs (Avid BB7) for the longer term reliability and especially serviceability in remote touring locations. He does acknowledge that hydraulics are going to be better, but that the cable-discs are everything I am likely to need for touring rides, even on rough and steep descents. Some people suggest that I should go to a different LBS, but this bloke is one of the best in the local area.
Other experiences or advice?
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I use Avid BB7's on both the Club tour and Mercury and other non Thorn bikes I've had in the past and never had any issues, changing the pads can be a bit frustrating at times but the long life of sintered pad's makes this less of a chore. Also being cable I can fix them myself.
I have no experience with hydraulic disc's so can't comment on them
Carlos
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Front Thorn disc-fork, and the SON28 disc-hub have now arrived. Next decision is what type of disc brake to get - Cable or hydraulic? My LBS recommends cable-discs (Avid BB7) for the longer term reliability and especially serviceability in remote touring locations. ...
Other experiences or advice?
I built up a bike about a year ago, frame can only take disc, not rim brakes. I have not used any other discs before that. I chose a TRP Spyre cable operated brake. I find it easy to center the brake unit on the disc and easy to adjust. It does not have massive stopping power, my front brake on that bike is V brakes with Salmon pads and the front brake works better than the disc when it is dry. When wet, the disc is better.
I have twice tried to adjust someones disc brake, I am not a disc expert, but the people that asked me to adjust their brakes were more clueless than me. One was a BB7 and the other I am not sure what it was. All the cable operated disc brakes (other than TRP) push one pad against the rotor, the rotor then flexes to contact the stationary pad. I found that the TRP that moves both pads towards the rotor to be much easier to adjust than the other brakes.
If you do not go with the TRP, the BB7 has quite a following, so that likely is also a good choice.
The TRP pads I believe are semi-metalic pads, it is my understanding that resin pads wear faster but provide better stopping, I bought some resin pads but have not tried them yet.
Two photos of my Spyre attached.
The TRP instructions specifically recommended compressionless brake cable housing. I just happened to have some in my box of spares that I could use. For the rear I think the compressionless brake housing improves braking, but the cable run on a front brake is shorter so I do not know if that is important for the front or not. Compressionless shifter housing can't be used on brakes, but you probably already knew that, only brake housing can be used.
I agree for touring you want cable, not hydraulic.
ADDENDUM - I think the Spyre is for road brake levers, a different model for mountain type levers.
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I think you will find Avid BB7 push both pads.
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I think that SJS can replace the non-disc shell piece with the disc variety pretty easily. I am sure it is costly when you add in the Rohloff specific disc and a disc brake unit, but so is a new fork and new SON dynohub.
That's all OK. SJS is in the UK; I am in Australia.
My son can do the replacement job quite readily for me, he has become quite the trickster for pulling down the Rohloff hub just "because he was bored" ::) ;D
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Doing the rear end with a new Rohloff (or maybe new Rohloff shell) is a more complex and expensive step.
Pete, I think only the disc end cap and a fresh gasket, not the entire hub shell. Dave Whittle can best advise here as to parts and labor for conversion cost or SJS Cycles could if you drop them a note.
While your son is certainly accomplished at Rohloff stripping (respect!), getting the parts as an individual might be difficult -- potentially hazardous if they are not original Rohloff pieces available only to authorized service outlets. See: https://www.rohloff.de/en/company/news/news/press-release-january-2014/
All the best,
Dan.
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Yes, I have realised that it is just the end-cap that needs to be replaced. I should be able to source the parts and gasket quite OK; between on-line stores, the local distributor, and quite a few friends who are quite skilled at working with Rohloff hubs. Our hubs are all well outside the Rohloff waranty period as well, so it is 'caveat emptor' ;)
I would certainly not be sending my hub to SJS, halfway around the world. We have a local distributor here, though being in Queensland, over 2000 kms away, even that is a risk and a large time delay, and I have sadly heard of one or two less-than-satisfactory results on service/warranty work (that admittedly was later rectified).