Thorn Cycles Forum
Private Classified => Wanted => Topic started by: zomarzi on June 12, 2017, 08:50:39 am
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Opinions on hub oil.
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??
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Thanks for reminding me, my RST needs an oil change this month.
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Does everyone stick to the recommended milage/ time or do a few of us sneak over and grab a few freebies?
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Slightly off topic - last summer several people thought that something was wrong with my Rohloff losing oil. I changed the oil shortly before I left for Iceland (15 ml), and from the photo you can see that a lot of oil came out of the hub. Although I had been riding that Rohloff for a bit over three years at that time, I still considered myself pretty new to understanding Rohloffs, so I assumed everything was normal. When the photo was taken I probalby had about 700 miles (~1000 km) of distance on the hub after the oil change. After those comments, I removed a few of the parts off of the left side to see if I was missing a gasket or anything like that, everything appeared to be in order.
I am pleased to report that this spring I changed the oil again and this time I am not seeing any evidence of excessive oil loss.
I have concluded that the problem was changing oil shortly before getting onto two airplanes (one trip, but a connecting flight makes for a second plane flight). The air pressure changes is what I suspect may be the culprit. Perhaps on one or both flights, the left side of the hub was face down and the oil came out of the hub under air pressure changes and resided in the gear change mechanism before slowly leaking out later? I have no evidence that the flights were responsible, but I can't think of anything else.
Since everything now seems to be just fine, the hub works great, only minimal oil is seeping out, I am not going to concern myself with the past.
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Silly question, but could you have possibly not syphoned out the old oil first? That seems a lot of oil, and I thought that plane cargo hulls were pressurized nowadays?
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Since I only do an oil change once a year, I watch the video first to remember what I am supposed to do. No, I did not forget to drain out the cleaning oil.
I think the cargo hold pressure is the same as the inside of plane pressure, which I believe is equivalent to about 8000 feet of elevation. So, there definitely is some air pressure changes in flight. That is why you should avoid flying if you are ill and have stuffed up sinuses.
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Every year at the beginning of the spring and the winter there's a puddle of oil under my Rohloff. Since I do the oil change in the first week of January, and put in only 15ml of all-seasons oil as advised by Rohloff, after thoroughly draining out the cleaning oil, there is no question of an overfilled gearbox. In fact, after I instituted the 15ml routine, my gearbox has been pretty clean, whereas before it always had a trace, or sometimes a smear, of oil on it. The leakage has to do with the change of heating (the temperature in the space where the bike stands is controlled by the dial for the house temp) about that time, and possibly with the natural air pressure change also noticeable where I live at the change of seasons. Leakage is the wrong word though, as it is more of a misting of oil out of the breather vent in the axle. So I'm not surprised at all by George's tale of airplane journeys causing oil to mist out to the extent of a small puddle. You wouldn't even need the airplane journey, a truck hauling a bike to a different elevation would probably have the same effect.
These "misting" events I've observed don't last long, a couple of days or so, then the gearbox settles down as the internal pressure adjusts to the external pressure. It is not necessary to top up the gearbox even if appreciable amounts of oil have spilled out: enough clings to the gears to see you through to the bike's next oil change.
Note that some of the so-called "seals" on the Rohloff box are paper. A little oil mist on them probably aids sealing.
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I just copied and pasted this from Rohloff:
- Transportation of the Rohloff SPEEDHUB 500/14
If transporting a bike fitted with a Rohloff SPEEDHUB 500/14, care should be taken that the rear wheel is transported in an upright position. In a car or an aeroplane, there could be great changes in the air temperature/pressure.
When the wheel lies on its side, oil could seep out of the seals because the oil is sitting directly over these seals on either the left or the right side. Transportation in the upright position will prevent the air temperature/pressure in having an effect over the Rohloff SPEEDHUB 500/14.
If it is not possible to transport the wheel in the upright position due to according packaging requirements, don't worry. The leakage of oil will not cause any damage.
Above pasted from this link:
https://www.rohloff.de/en/service/faqs/index.html#c9548
I think I recall hearing at one time that the vent is in the skewer hole in the axle. And I usually see an oil coating on the skewer when I remove it.
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Does everyone stick to the recommended milage/ time or do a few of us sneak over and grab a few freebies?
Every September since 2006 I have religiously changed the oil. The first couple of times I thought I could hear a difference but now it just keeps things ticking over.
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That's interesting.
I always think I can hear a change from within, after an oil change.
I'm pretty good at regularly changing the oil. But even so, I think things run smoother and faster. Very strange. Or not.
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I change my Nomad's oil religiously. Also did on AndyBG's kindly loaned RavenTour midway on my European double-crossing. Couldn't get the oil separately, so I paid a German bike shop familiar with Rohloffs to do it. Came out just fine and no leaks; oil and labor for less than I pay for oil alone here in the US (about USD$22.50 including shipping on eBay).
Best,
Dan.
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Every September since 2006 I have religiously changed the oil. The first couple of times I thought I could hear a difference but now it just keeps things ticking over.
My hubs been with no leaks what so ever thus far - but it's best to stack every bit in ones favor - so then what sort of special ceremony or chants are there to changing the oil "religiously"? Does one need candles?
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Indeed there is a solemn ceremony Pavel. The crucial element is the choice of tea. We have had several threads about it. If you wonder what I'm on about I refer you to Thorns oil change video.
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My hubs been with no leaks what so ever thus far - but it's best to stack every bit in ones favor - so then what sort of special ceremony or chants are there to changing the oil "religiously"? Does one need candles?
Indeed there is a solemn ceremony Pavel. The crucial element is the choice of tea. We have had several threads about it. If you wonder what I'm on about I refer you to Thorns oil change video.
I skip the tea, substitute a nice red, perhaps a Merlot or a Cabernet Sauvignon.
And since I always re-use the drain screw, I ceremoniously put another layer of blue loctite on the screw while draining the cleaning oil.
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I seem to be an ascetic, preferring to simply get the job done in a self-abnegating devotion to Rohloffian duty.
In caring for it, it takes care of me.
;)
All the best,
Dan.
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I seem to be an ascetic, preferring to simply get the job done in a self-abnegating devotion to Rohloffian duty.
In caring for it, it takes care of me.
;)
All the best,
Dan.
Asceticism is all well and good and characteristically Germanic yet pleasure from riding rohloff can also be cathartic if not catholic!
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^^^ So true, Geo!! :)
All the best,
Dan.
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And why not make a virtue out of necessity, after all? (Others can exorcise their OCD demons by endlessly adjusting their derailleurs.)
The oil change thing ritual makes a good conversation piece, too:
"So this expensive German hub, John, how much attention does it need?"
"Not much. I change the oil once a year, usually in November. Not a lot of oil, more than a thimbleful, less than a shot glass."
"You change the oil? In a bicycle??"
"Well, yes. Care for a cuppa while we wait?"
And so it goes...
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Did the oil change on my Raven Tour on schedule last week.
Also cleaned the bike, took off the Chainglider, had a look at the chain, then put the Chainglider back on again as nothing needed doing. And took out the seat post and steerer, again everything was OK.
Apart from pumping up the tyres, that's about it for the Raven Tour for the past year (and I don't do seatpin/steerer every year).
And I finally got round to putting my old derailleur lightweight tourer back together, but not had the opportunity to ride it since, maybe this coming week, as dry weather is forecast.
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.... And took out the seat post and steerer, again everything was OK.
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When I bought my Nomad Mk II S&S frame and fork, I was quite surprised to see a piece of tape inside the head tube. It covered the holes into the top tube and down tube.
I was applying Framesaver to the frame so I had to remove the tape, but it made so much sense to have that tape in there to prevent any water that gets into the headtube from flowing into the toptube and downtube that I put a new piece of tape in there to cover the holes again. And since then I have put tape in the headtube on my other bike frames when I had the steerer tube out.
A friend of mine that works as a bike mechanic has told me that capillary action will allow water to get in the downtube from water bottle cage bolts. So, nothing is perfectly sealed. But the tape still made sense to me.
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Bit of Art ? Just done my oil change and this is the oil placed on an ice cream carton lid then put on top of a do-nut magnet.
Still suprises me that the gears are shedding so many particles every year.
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That really shows the importance of using the cleaning oil. I am always quite thorough, with the cleaning oil I go for a bike ride about 2 km, spend some time in every gear. Then let it drain for a good amount of time. Thanks for convincing me to continue taking my time.
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Me too Mick.
I go for a good long ride with the cleaning oil in.
10/15 miles.
Through all gears. I can't see any harm in it and I am happy that everything inside the hub has had a good coating/ flush.
Interesting to see the magnet picture. I'll try that at the next oil change.
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Mine has always done the same, e-Man. A good illustration of why it is important to change the oil on a regular basis -- and yes, do the flush by the book as well.
Best,
Dan.
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Absolutely. I reckon the key thing about the oil change is a thorough flush with the cleaning oil, which axiomatically includes doing it according to the factory schedule or better. I too leave the cleaning oil draining out for a couple of hours to ensure all the metal scraps slide out on it.
But here's a radical thought: if you leave the box unserviced, it might loosen up a lot quicker. You'll lose your warranty, of course. I take the view that the liberal warranty Bernd Rohloff gives is the third most valuable thing about the Rohloff box, next to the physical installation of the box on your bike, and the convenience of its cleanliness, so I'm not recommending this abuse, merely trolling it lightly across the waters for those who worry that their Rohloff box will never run in.
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But here's a radical thought: if you leave the box unserviced, it might loosen up a lot quicker. You'll lose your warranty, of course.
I wouldn't like to leave much more than a year between services as I would worry about water from condensation in a little-used gear box.
IMO water damage is the main fault with (older) Shimano 7-8 speed hub gears, I've also found it occasionally in very neglected Sturmey-Archer hub gears and had it in my own SRAM 3-speed on my first Brompton (SRAM 3-speed doesn't have labyrinth seals like the Sturmey, so water ingress is much more likely, much less of a problem with Rohloff).
And if you're doing more than the recommended 5,000 kms between oil changes in a year I reckon you will loosen up the hub gear quick enough.