Thorn Cycles Forum
Community => Non-Thorn Related => Topic started by: alcyst on May 31, 2017, 10:26:15 am
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Morning,
I will be touring with a Trangia spirit burner. The fuel will be meths and the French equivalent. I could carry the fuel in a pannier, but it seems more sensible to carry it in a bottle cage. The Mercury has three cage mounts, a fuel leak could be messy.
I would prefer to use a standard bottle cage and would love to know if there is a suitable bottle that will fit a standard bottle cage? I have read that aluminium bottles do not work well with meths & similar. A standard bottle might work.....? Though a bottle with a clear FUEL warning would avoid any accidents.
Any thoughts?
Also posted on crazyguyonabike forums.
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I use the trangia 1ltr bottle which fits in the SJS profile cage, the 500ml bottle is to small to fit.
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Using a proper fuel bottle will ensure there are no leaks. Primus, MSR and Optimus fuel bottles are all good.
I have a multi-fuel stove and use the Bike Buddy MK3 ...
http://www.bikebuddy.co.uk
The Primus fuel bottle I use is this one ...
http://www.primus.eu/fuel-bottle-0-6l
The frame attaches to the fuel bottle and is easily removed from the bike peg attachments fixed permanently under the frame. On tour often over very rough ground, the bottle has never fallen off and there has never been a fuel leak.
I think many touring cyclists use this setup.
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I'm trying to avoid buying extra things, I'll check the Trangia.
Thanks for the replies.
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The bottles I use that fit in a cage are no longer made, so I have no suggestion on what to buy. I bought the bottles about a decade ago. They were bundled with an Optimus Nova stove.
But, I can say that I only put bottles in a cage if I use Kerosene (not sure what Europeans call that fuel).
I find that alcohols and coleman fuel evaporates so quickly that if I spilled any on the bottle that it is gone within a few minutes. Thus, these other fuels I put in my panniers or dry bag or pack or whatever. I just make sure the lid is on tight.
If you wrap a piece of paper around a water bottle that fits a cage quite well and mark the exact circumference of the bottle on that paper, then go to the store, it is easy to test your paper on the other bottles to see if any has that same circumference.
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A few points in my answer, alcyst:
1) I use an MSR fuel bottle (650 ml / 22 fl oz) as a reservoir for the alcohol for my Trangia.
2) The fuel bottle fits snugly in the Kleen Kanteen cage I have on the seat tube of my Raven. I use Kleen Kanteen stainless steel water bottles, both 800 ml and 1.1 ltr, and the standard Kleen Kanteen cage has enough flex to work with all three sizes.
3) For daily use of the stove, I use a 125 ml/4 oz Nalgene bottle, as it's easier to use than the larger MSR bottle. The screw-top on the Nalgene tightens up nicely as well.
4) When I'm touring and buy a new stock of alcohol for the stove, I usually fill the MSR bottle, plus the small Nalgene, and buy an extra supply which I keep in a pannier. (Depends on how much I'm using each day, of course, but I find that the Trangia burns more fuel than does my MSR Dragonfly. For that stove, I don't usually carry as much extra fuel with me.)
Hope that's helpful.
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While reading & searching I came across Mizo, their M8 (or M5?) "clicks" into a standard bottle cage. Their bottle tops are plain screw.
John, you have thought the 2 bottle approach through.
Should have said, the Mizu are stainless steel.
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I use the MSR fuel bottle simply because I have several of them, and they're durable. The screw-in stoppers also are drilled on the side, so that you can pour out a small stream of fuel simply by unscrewing the stopper a couple of turns.
The MSR bottle fits well into the Kleen Kanteen bottle cages on my Raven. One of my bikes has a Bontrager (Trek brand) cage, and that fits too.
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Just read your thread on crazyguy, Rory, and it appears that alcohol and MSR bottles do not mix. So, the MSR bottle which I've used for alcohol will not be used for any pressurized fuel in the future.
Going back to your original question, I'd be inclined to use rigid Nalgene bottles (available in various sizes), or a stainless steel bottle.
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I've got an old quart bottle from Dr Bronner castile soap set aside for alcohol fuel. Seems like the squeeze nozzle would make filling a Trangia burner very easy.
Dr Bronner uses PET bottles: https://www.drbronner.com/about/our-earth/packaging-innovations/
which should work OK for alcohol: https://www.theplasticbottlescompany.com/properties-hdpe-ldpe-pet-bottles/
but I haven't put this into use yet! Too big for a standard bottle holder but fits very nice in the back pocket on the SuperC rear panniers!
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I have and really like the Trangia system. I've got a 27-5 UL and a 27-6 UL along with along with a multi-disk. One of the best bits of kit I've ever lucked into selecting.
I have two different bottles and prefer the lighter plastic Trangia version due to it's brilliantly designed spout. This makes re-filling the burner much easier and safer when re-filling a still hot stove. Both it and the MSR aluminum bottle which I have fit into a regular cage, though tightly. But having it tight is a benefit in my mind. I normally carry fuel under the sloping triangle and use the two inside the triangle for water, but for snapping the photos I just slid it where you see it.
I don't like the MSR bottle due to the fact that the treading seems to be proprietary. I've lost my trangia spout, so I'm going by memory, but I seem to recall that the spout fit fine into both another brand fuel bottle that I used to have (lost it and the spout) and of course into the trangia bottle which it is designed for, but the MSR cap is not good for anything but it's own system. I hate that kind of corporate thinking.
the plastic fuel bottles are not of course meant for pressure - but that is fine by me because if I go to another fuel source I will go with something like the whisperlight, though I really don't care for the noise and the bother of keeping a multi-fuel stove running right long term. Here in the USA one can buy heat just about anywhere, and otherwise alcohol is both cheap, safe, non-skinky and nice and quiet in use.
Here are some photos and a link to show the trangia bottle and spout.
http://trangia.se/en/burners-and-burner-accessories/
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I should add that the Trangia shown above is the 1 liter size and I just noticed that the diameter is 80mm, versus the 65mm of their other bottles. I wonder if the 500 and 300 ml bottles then would be loose - or just perfect?
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I have not used an alcohol stove, thus I am quite ignorant of the procedure, etc. But it was my understanding that in USA the preferred source of fuel was the yellow heet (spelled with two Es) bottles sold in auto supply stores and auto convenience stores. In other countries I do not know what the preferred source is, but if it is also in plastic bottles like the yellow heet bottles, is there a reason you can't carry the fuel in the bottles that you bought it in? Plus of course a smaller bottle as mentioned for metering out the amount you need each time you use the stove.
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Mick ... yes. the energy in heet is less than in alcohol. So I bring with me a bottle of real alcohol and if I run out I sleep soundly knowing that I can get a cheap "almost as good" fuel. :)
Heet is methanol while the alcohol I buy in large cans is ethanol. Methanol is more toxic to humans and the caloric value is lower. ( 56,800 vs 81,800 BTU per Gallon)
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My error;
a Mizu 800ml bottle is the right diameter, but does not "click" into a standard bottle cage.
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I use a Trangia 500ml plastic fuel bottle. I carry it in the third cage mount near the bottom bracket. It's too narrow to be held securely in this on its own. The trick is to buy a cheap water bottle, saw off the top and make two small holes near the rim. Through those holes thread a piece of stretch cord. Put the bottle inside and thread the elastic over and through the hole in the Trangia stopper.