Thorn Cycles Forum

Technical => Luggage => Topic started by: jags on November 03, 2016, 11:25:50 pm

Title: best barbag.
Post by: jags on November 03, 2016, 11:25:50 pm
What bar bag are you Thorn Audax  owners using ,

cheers
Jags or anto
Title: Re: best barbag.
Post by: Danneaux on November 04, 2016, 12:43:02 am
I don't own an Audax, but for all my bikes including some randonneur bikes that are very similar to the Audax, I prefer my Ortlieb Ultimate V handlebar bag in size Large with 8.5l capacity and two small zippered mesh side pockets. The Large weighs about an aspirin tablet more than the Medium but holds a lot more, nice for light but bulky things like wind jackets and such.

I've found its greatest virtue is reliable waterproofness. It has withstood more rainstorms than I can count, all without a leak.

I prefer the older Ultimate V because it uses very secure snaps to close the lid and secure the map case instead of magnets, which are located in a way that would be problematic for my portable hard drive and credit cards carried inside. Otherwise, the newer Ultimate VI is really nice also.

On my bikes with threadless steerers, I place the bag mount low on a 55mm Thorn Accessory T-bar instead of directly to the handlebars. This puts the weight a smidge lower for better handling.

Best,

Dan.
Title: Re: best barbag.
Post by: bobs on November 04, 2016, 08:04:52 am
Same here.
Title: Re: best barbag.
Post by: StuntPilot on November 04, 2016, 08:38:55 am
Yep - the Ortlieb bar bag is a classic. I have the Ultimate VI Large 8.5l with the magnets, which I find work very well. I keep bank cards etc in the zipped pocket in the front of the bag and have not had any issue with the magnets. The lock too in invaluable for peace of mind on quick stops.

Having just returned from 3 and a half months of touring, the Ortlieb Ultimate VI has had everything thrown at it. Intense sun, torrential rain, sand and dust - not one problem. The bag (Black) showns no sign of any colour change due to UV exposure, though the map case that sat exposed throughout the trip shows a little 'greying' but still very transparrent.

I find it works well too with the Thorn 105mm Accessory T-Bar.
Title: Re: best barbag.
Post by: jags on November 04, 2016, 09:45:05 am
cheers lads goes on the wish list.
Title: Re: best barbag.
Post by: jags on November 27, 2016, 09:30:27 pm
i found a lovely camera bag in the attic today  must be my son's bag sure he will never use it so i might as well,
problem is how do i attach it to the bars .it only has a shoulder strap.
great looking bag.
Title: Re: best barbag.
Post by: Danneaux on November 27, 2016, 10:34:54 pm
Quote
i found a lovely camera bag in the attic today...problem is how do i attach it to the bars
Anto,

I'm a bit short on time right now ("work") so I can't give specifics, but as I recall, R&K KlickFix has an adapter that bolts to a basket. It fits a handlebar mount, which they also sell. Bolting the basket to the camera bag might allow you to mount it...might need a larger stiffener inside to prevent sagging.

Here's the link to KlickFix's site: http://www.klickfix.de/

It's on there somewhere, I know.

Best,

Dan.
Title: Re: best barbag.
Post by: bobs on November 27, 2016, 10:58:10 pm
Not got an Audax but got an Ortlieb which I recon is
great.

Bob
Title: Re: best barbag.
Post by: jags on November 27, 2016, 11:54:46 pm
Thanks Dan i will try and send u photos of the bag.
it's small enough to look  8) plenty room enough for my junk .
 don't fancy that  basket i'm to cool a guy to carry a basket like  think Clint Eastwood except 3 foot shorter and 5 stone heaver but sure a fella can dream. :'(

bobs i had the ortlieb great bag for sure but Anto is broke so gotta make do with what i can get.

anto.
Title: Re: best barbag.
Post by: Danneaux on November 28, 2016, 12:34:09 am
Apologies, Anto...In my haste, I wasn't clear in my writing.

What I meant to say is KlickFix offer a bracket intended to fasten a basket to a handlebar mount. Sometimes (depending on the application) you can take this bracket and bolt it to other kinds of bags (not baskets) to turn those bags into handlebar bags. If you do this, then you might need a stiffener inside the bag to make it work. Old political campaign signs (Coroplast) work great for this.

I'm deep in editing a journal article at the moment with a tight deadline and it has problems :o so I will get back to you later. I have your email with photos; thanks!  :)

All the best,

Dan.
Title: Re: best barbag.
Post by: Danneaux on November 28, 2016, 07:19:00 am
Okay, Anto...

This is not quite what I have fixed in my mind, but close:
https://www.sjscycles.co.uk/luggage/altura-klickfix-back-plate-for-arran-skye-orkney-hbar-bags-with-red-qr-button/?geoc=US

The one I remembered was a back plate and inner stiffener that sandwiched in either side of a bag so it could be made into a handlebar bag by attaching to either a KlickFix or Ortlieb handlebar mount.

Topeak has a similar one that is complete for the intended purpose:
https://www.sjscycles.co.uk/luggage/topeak-fixer-3e-with-basket-adapter/?geoc=US

Keep in mind, you would need to rig some kind of internal structure to keep the bag from sagging, because the bag won't have the same rigidity as a metal or wicker basket.

Anyway, just a thought for you to possibly use Frank's camera bag (below) if he doesn't find out first.  ;)

You might be as well off getting something cheap from eBay. There's some attractive options out there for the money, including a waterproof one for only    
£27.50 + shipping from our own SJS Cycles:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/AVENIR-100-WATERPROOF-BAR-BAG-HANDLEBAR-BAG-QUICK-RELEASE-37378-/311333653339?hash=item487cee8b5b:g:mKcAAOSwqu9VI6dk

Best,

Dan.
Title: Re: best barbag.
Post by: Danneaux on November 28, 2016, 07:27:40 am
A further thought, Anto...

If you plan to use brifters to shift, mind the gear cables don't foul the handlebar bag. You may need to use some v-brake cable noodles at the levers' cable exit to shoo the cables away from the handlebar bag, depending on clearance.

The result would look like this:
http://www.bikeforums.net/4706118-post4.html
A similar setup here:
http://www.bicyclesports.us/id256.htm

Best,

Dan.
Title: Re: best barbag.
Post by: rualexander on November 28, 2016, 08:28:39 am
This is what Dan was referring to above http://www.freemanscycles.co.uk/rixen-and-kaul-klickfix-handlebar-adapter-spare-fixing-plate.html
I used one to convert my Carradice Barley to Klickfix fitting.
Title: Re: best barbag.
Post by: Danneaux on November 28, 2016, 09:43:15 am
*That's* the one! ;D

Thanks, Rual; well done!

I think Anto has a Barley....

All the best,

Dan.
Title: Re: best barbag.
Post by: leftpoole on November 28, 2016, 10:08:55 am
Hello,
I personally do not recommend a bar bag on the Audax due to 'wobble'.
Regards,
John
Title: Re: best barbag.
Post by: jags on November 28, 2016, 12:04:22 pm
Cheers Lads great help  the klick fix seems the way to go thanks for the links.
meant to say the new sti Tiagra is wired up the same as 105 ultegra  no cables showing  8)



anto.http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/ie/en/shimano-tiagra-4703-3x10-speed-sti-shifter-set/rp-prod137778
Title: Re: best barbag.
Post by: rualexander on November 28, 2016, 03:25:43 pm
Instead of the backplate method above, you might also be able to use the Klickfix metal frame arms depending on the size of the bag.
Stitch a couple of sleeves on the sides of the bags to take the frame and 'bob's your uncle'. Bag size would be fairly critical though.

https://www.sjscycles.co.uk/luggage/rixen-kaul-alloy-frame-for-daypack-bag/

If you go with the backplate method, some 'corex'  board makes a good stiffener between the inner and outer fittings.
Title: Re: best barbag.
Post by: jags on November 28, 2016, 03:47:41 pm
the inside  of that bag is  well padded obviously for keeping  an expensive camera safe .
i'd say the plate would would fine,if ever i get round to actually buying it. :o

cheers lads

anto.
Title: Re: best barbag.
Post by: John Saxby on November 29, 2016, 03:57:56 pm
Jags, as a low-cost option for the Audax, you might consider the Axiom "Adirondack" h'bar bag.  It just straps on. Less capacity than the Ortlieb or the comparable Arkel, but no frame either, hence light weight.  In these parts, it costs about Cdn$32.  I use one on my Eclipse, and it's ok for snacks, camera, a rolled-up rain jacket, keys, wallet, cleat covers in the outside pocket, etc., etc. (tho' probably not all of these at once!)

Here's the link:  http://shop.bushtukah.com/product/axiom-adirondack-4.5-handlebar-bag-156180-1.htm#.WD2iApLtYhw (http://shop.bushtukah.com/product/axiom-adirondack-4.5-handlebar-bag-156180-1.htm#.WD2iApLtYhw)

That may be a useful reference point.

I seem to recall that we had a conversation about this item a while back -- did you ever try one? Maybe your son in the States could send you a prezzie?

Cheers,  John
Title: Re: best barbag.
Post by: jags on November 29, 2016, 05:45:55 pm
Yes John i have that bag i use it all the time as a shoulder bag when im out walking   does the job grand.
but it's not waterproof and it's a  tad long for a barbag.
mind u i haven't tried it yet on the Thorn  but i will son as i get the frame built up.
thanks John.

cheers
anto.
Title: Re: best barbag.
Post by: John Saxby on November 29, 2016, 10:48:20 pm
You might consider one of these, Anto, if/if you can get it as a prezzie:

https://www.revelatedesigns.com/index.cfm/store.catalog/frame-bags/TangleFrameBag (https://www.revelatedesigns.com/index.cfm/store.catalog/frame-bags/TangleFrameBag)

These would give you storage capacity located within the main triangle, accessible but well away from bars, so there shd be no problem with the handling.

You could use the Tangle bag instead of a h'bar bag -- I shd think that the Medium is plenty big enough.

These things are waterproof as well.

Revelate has jacked up their prices in the past couple of years -- I bought a Large 2 years ago for $70, and the Med now costs USD 90!  Mind you, the Ortlieb roll-closure bar bag is USD 130.

All things considered, I'd stay with the inexpensive Axiom item until you can afford (or a close relative can afford!) something like the Tangle.  You can spray the Axiom with silicone to make it water-resistant, or stuff the things you're carrying into plastic bags.

Cheers,  John
Title: Re: best barbag.
Post by: jags on November 29, 2016, 11:44:04 pm
i had a look at those kinda bags before but would it not obstruct  your peddling as in your knees hitting the  bag ,i have a high cadence  and my knees are usually close to top tube .
when i had the sherpa i used the carradice rack bag  for day rides the barley for longer day rides nd i also have the longflap amazing the amount of gear i can get into that bag  ;).
my plan for the audax is ortlieb rear panniers tent on top of rack and barbag .seriously want to keep things as light as possible .
my sleeping gear is great light and packs small cooking well i can't cook (burn water)  ::)
but i can heat up canned soup or beans do me grand ,i bought a lightweight stove from our man Dan works great ,tent tho is heavy great tent though loads room.
yeah i want to keep things as simple as i can makes sense at the end of a long ride me thinks.
so far i have chainset /brake calipers.

i ordered front and rear mechs today and cables still need the sti leavers  pedals  mudguards bars and stem ,getting there slowly .
anyway thanks John for thinking of me much appreciated.

Anto.
Title: Re: best barbag.
Post by: John Saxby on November 30, 2016, 03:28:44 am
Quote
would it not obstruct  your peddling as in your knees hitting the  bag

I haven't found that to be a problem, Anto.  I have a large Tangle bag on my Raven, and my knees rarely if ever touch it.  (It carries all my rainwear, plus my click-stand.)  I haven't measured the width when it's stuffed full, but I'd guess maybe 3" max.
Title: Re: best barbag.
Post by: Mike Ayling on November 30, 2016, 08:49:18 am
I have an Ortlieb bar bag, not sure of the size but use Klikfix mounting brackets which are Ortlieb compatible and don't require a new cable if you want to remove and replace the mounting bracket. I have Klikfix brackets on the tandem and the Mercury and switch the bag as required. I found the Klikfix easier to mount and remove the bag than the Ortlieb system.

Mike

Title: Re: best barbag.
Post by: geocycle on November 30, 2016, 09:18:02 am
I have an Ortlieb bar bag, not sure of the size but use Klikfix mounting brackets which are Ortlieb compatible and don't require a new cable if you want to remove and replace the mounting bracket. I have Klikfix brackets on the tandem and the Mercury and switch the bag as required. I found the Klikfix easier to mount and remove the bag than the Ortlieb system.

Mike

Hi Mike, can you provide a link to the Klikfix bracket please.  I also find the ortlieb ones cannot easily be taken on and off without replacing the cable.  I only use a barbag (Ortlieb IV)when doing multiday tours so for the rest of the time I just have to look at the ugly bracket.
Title: Re: best barbag.
Post by: jags on November 30, 2016, 09:27:29 am
yes the bracket system with ortlieb are terrible klickfix seems the way to go.
what i don't like about Ortlieb there to square great bags for sure but no style  imho and they block the view of the wheel ,i'm to picky i guess but a well dressed bike makes a fella feel good and even go faster  8)

cheers lads

anto.
Title: Re: best barbag.
Post by: Danneaux on November 30, 2016, 05:02:44 pm
A pleasantly contrarian view:

I sure do prefer the attachment and ease of the KlickFix bracket over the Ortlieb, but...

I've found while the KlickFix does a great job in preventing barbag sag, it has not do so well at preventing upward bounce on really rough logging roads in my use. The Ortlieb seems to better constrain upward bounce, though each of my Ortliebs has also required resetting after some use. Once reset, they seem to hold just fine. I think the same heavy impacts that cause upward bounce also removes any slack in the cable.

I've also found the Ortlieb Ultimate 6 mounts allow the bags to attach in the same basic way as the KlickFix, rather than sliding down/on like the Ultimate 5 series. If you need the bounce resistance of an Ortlieb with the mounting ease of a KlickFix, an Ultimate 6 mount  incorporates both.

That said, I sure wish the Ortliebs were removable/swappable without need for cable replacement in most cases and like jags, I wish they had more style!

Best,

Dan.
Title: Re: best barbag.
Post by: lewis noble on November 30, 2016, 08:44:58 pm
I've never used a bar bag, but on my tour in France earlier this year, I fitted a small (2 litre) Carradice Zipped Roll Bag onto the straight bars - needed longer straps.  This fitted very well, and did not interfere with cable runs, light fittings or light spread at all.

The downside of course is that it takes longer to fit and remove, or to open, but in reality it is still a matter of seconds once you get used to it.  That didn't bother me - it was reassuring being able to leave it on the bike and knowing it would be more difficult to get off or steal from.  I kept my tool kit and other little used stuff in it, and was quite happy with it.

Would I use it again? Well, yes, because I have it and have never been that keen on most of the bar bags I have seen.

Lewis
Title: Re: best barbag.
Post by: John Saxby on November 30, 2016, 10:53:53 pm
If the issue is (in part) mounting systems, then I'd suggest looking at Arkel, here:

https://www.arkel-od.com/en/bike-handlebar-bag.html (https://www.arkel-od.com/en/bike-handlebar-bag.html)

Arkel have changed the design of their bags in the past couple of years, to (i) make the main compartment waterproof; and (ii) add an arched stiffener for the lid.  Not cheap at CAD160 (USD120) for the small bag, but they're good value.

The mounting system is light and rigid, and the bags are easy to remove as well. Only "but" is that getting the original mounting just right requires some deliberate adjustment and levelling. 

As for the quality:  When I made my Amsterdam-to-Vienna ride a few years ago, I had to take my bike to a large bike shop in Mainz, Germany, to sort out a derailleur adjustment. When I removed my bar bag, the Service Manager said, "Ooooh, I like those mounts. We don't have anything like that here."  How often do you hear Germans praise engineering by someone else?
Title: Re: best barbag.
Post by: jags on December 01, 2016, 10:56:24 am
nice but way to expensive for my pocket .all these bags including panniers have one big problem there to bulky,and a simple solution would be to add compression straps ,once you get the bags mounted just tighten the straps as u would a drybag  to reduce the bulk simple enough idea.
John i like to see the front wheel when im cycling  it's a roadie thing , riding at high speed and sitting 1 inch behind the guy in front , you wont do that if you have a big barbag blocking your view  ;D ;D.

i know touring is a different   set up altogether  but old habits die hard.

anto
Title: Re: best barbag.
Post by: John Saxby on December 01, 2016, 04:18:35 pm
Skip the bar bag altogether, then, and go the Revelate/Tangle route, I'd say. No vision hassles, no mounting hassles, no possible wobble hassles, even the $$/££ problem is less than an Ortlieb or Arkel h'bar bag.
Title: Re: best barbag.
Post by: jags on December 01, 2016, 04:30:02 pm
as long as my knees wouldn't hit that bag  might be the way to go  cheers John.

anto.
Title: Re: best barbag.
Post by: bobs on December 01, 2016, 07:04:35 pm
You can get an Ortlieb bar bag here for less than a Revelate tangle .

Bob
Title: Re: best barbag.
Post by: jags on December 01, 2016, 07:21:50 pm
i had a lovely ortlieb bag one time a so called buddy asked if he could borrow it. that was about 8 years  ::) when i bought the sherpa  i bought another one  ultimate 6 i think it was.
the ould saying a friend in need it a pest.
anto stooled again.


anto.
Title: Re: best barbag.
Post by: Mike Ayling on December 01, 2016, 09:54:48 pm
I have an Ortlieb bar bag, not sure of the size but use Klikfix mounting brackets which are Ortlieb compatible and don't require a new cable if you want to remove and replace the mounting bracket. I have Klikfix brackets on the tandem and the Mercury and switch the bag as required. I found the Klikfix easier to mount and remove the bag than the Ortlieb system.

Mike

Hi Mike, can you provide a link to the Klikfix bracket please.  I also find the ortlieb ones cannot easily be taken on and off without replacing the cable.  I only use a barbag (Ortlieb IV)when doing multiday tours so for the rest of the time I just have to look at the ugly bracket.

http://www.klickfix.com/index.php?lang=en

Cheers

Mike
Title: best barbag
Post by: flocsy on August 06, 2023, 01:51:50 am
I see that most people recommend the Ortlieb Ultimate Six. Does anyone have experience with the Ortlieb Handlebar-Pack Plus or QR?
https://www.ortlieb.com/en_us/handlebar-pack-plus+F3253
Title: Re: best barbag
Post by: PH on August 06, 2023, 02:36:46 am
I see that most people recommend the Ortlieb Ultimate Six. Does anyone have experience with the Ortlieb Handlebar-Pack Plus or QR?
https://www.ortlieb.com/en_us/handlebar-pack-plus+F3253
All the Ortlieb stuff I've seen is good, it's a matter of finding what meets your needs.  That one wouldn't suit me, I like to be able to open and close one handed while riding and also like the clear pocket on top of my current Ultimate 6 (5L)
Title: Re: best barbag.
Post by: flocsy on August 06, 2023, 03:46:10 am
I also do like the easy accessibility of it, but am I right that the Ultimate 6 has a hard case? How small can it be shrinked/packed when it's empty? I'd like to be able to squeeze it as flat as possible to be able to put it into one of the panniers while flying so I can take it on-board.
Title: Re: best barbag.
Post by: PH on August 06, 2023, 10:02:54 am
I also do like the easy accessibility of it, but am I right that the Ultimate 6 has a hard case? How small can it be shrinked/packed when it's empty? I'd like to be able to squeeze it as flat as possible to be able to put it into one of the panniers while flying so I can take it on-board.
Mine is the Plus version, which is a lighter more flexible material than the Classic. it's the 5L size:
It's rigidity, height wise, is provided by a plastic insert.  Pop this out, fold the sides in, put it back in the bag and the height reduces from 15cm to 8cm, measurements approx.

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53096947434_2ff5569061.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2oTZJAW)P1110528 (https://flic.kr/p/2oTZJAW) by Paul (https://www.flickr.com/photos/phbike/), on Flickr

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53096200872_29c916e565.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2oTVUFb)P1110529 (https://flic.kr/p/2oTVUFb) by Paul (https://www.flickr.com/photos/phbike/), on Flickr

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53096765406_518b8fcb82.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2oTYNuw)P1110530 (https://flic.kr/p/2oTYNuw) by Paul (https://www.flickr.com/photos/phbike/), on Flickr

Whatever the size, it isn't wasted space, as long as it's small enough to put where you want it, you can still pack something inside before packing it away.  As said in your lights thread, I remove the bar bag when I want to use a light on the handlebar, I do the above, leave a couple of bits in it and it goes on top of the saddlebag.
Title: Re: best barbag.
Post by: flocsy on August 06, 2023, 11:59:19 am
That looks OK. My problem is not how much space it occupies on my bike when not used, but that I want to minimize the cost of the flight. This means that I would check the bike in, and have a big trolley-bag (55x40x23 cm) and a small carry-on bag (40x30x20 cm) (probably the 2 back panniers, one full with the roll-down part not really rolled down, this would increase it's height from 42 to some, probably reaching the 55cm limit, the other closed (42x32x17) fit the small carry-on requirements) and the handlebar bag is supposed to fit inside one of the panniers, but if it was hard case, then it wouldn't fit IMHO. Now that I see it can be made as small as the closing lid it's definitely small enough.