Thorn Cycles Forum
Private Classified => Wanted => Topic started by: jul on June 08, 2016, 11:36:16 pm
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Hi all,
I'm looking for a pair of "Ortlieb panniers" only the front set.
The model is full Black color in Cordura like this :
(http://i35.servimg.com/u/f35/19/07/93/69/th/ortlie10.jpg) (http://www.servimg.com/view/19079369/58)
(The product was stopped some months (years) ago)
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Is there a question here?
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Hi Julien!
I understand you are looking for a pair of Ortlieb front-roller panniers made from the Plus (Cordura) fabric in the now-discontinued black color.
The good news is a few of these are still available, showing up most often on eBay. I did a search and found a few vendors still list them in stock, but supplies are dwindling fast. Try this Canadian firm, which lists them as still available and in stock:
http://www.thebikedr.com/product/ortlieb-front-roller-plus-161641-1.htm
I am saddened Ortieb has chosen to replace all their classic colors with new ones, as it makes it impossible to match existing bags and I don't find the new colors as attractive or desirable as the old. I love the all-black "Plus" fabric bags, but ended up with black and red when those came on sale at a much better price than all black in my preferred Sportpacker and Bikepacker models. Alas, the red-and-black have now been discontinued as well.
Best of luck in your quest.
All the best,
Dan.
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I am saddened Ortieb has chosen to replace all their classic colors with new ones, as it makes it impossible to match existing bags and I don't find the new colors as attractive or desirable as the old. I love the all-black "Plus" fabric bags, but ended up with black and red when those came on sale at a much better price than all black in my preferred Sportpacker and Bikepacker models. Alas, the red-and-black have now been discontinued as well.
Dan.
I managed to find some NOS red-and-black Bikepackers when buying a second set of rear panniers to match the set of front and rear Sportpacker and Bikepacker panniers I already have. They were also a bit cheaper than the slightly different all-red model that is available now.
The main use of this second set is for when I want big panniers on the front, mostly for local utility trips rather than touring, but they can also go on the rear carrier of my wife's bike for holidays.
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Yes we have the same likes Dan :)
Thanks for the link, however to buy in Canada, it is not a good deal for european ...
I'v found the black on Ebay but flunked the front
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Review of sorts here for the uninitiated.
http://bikeshed.johnhoogstrate.nl/bicycle/luggage/ortlieb_back_front_roller_plus/
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Hi Dan,
What do you think to use a pair of "Sport packer plus" at the front ?
Counter to at the "roller plus" (25 liter) the "Sport packer" have 30 liter of capacity ..
is not it to much ?
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Julien,
I use Ortlieb SportPacker panniers in front and BikePackers at the rear, and a size Large Ultimate V handlebar bag.
I rarely use the full capacity of the bags, but find it helpful to have in reserve. A person can fill the bags less than full and still keep the contents secure if you use a cinch strap. It is nice to have room for souvenirs and mementos you may find or buy along the way, or to store food immediately without having to break down the packaging. The extra capacity is also nice for carrying items that are bulky but not heavy.
I don't think you would go wring with the smaller SportPackers up front. The larger BikePackers are generally too large to carry on a lowrider front rack without risk of snagging, though the can work okay on a platform front rack or on the upper tier of a two-level Surly Nice Rack (Front).
Choosing the Roller or Packer design is largely a matter of preference and suitability for need.
The Roller and Packer designs each have their virtues. The Rollers seal completely and can be submerged. They are generally not expandable, but if weather is good and you temporarily need extra room, they can be ridden with the tops unrolled to some degree or even open. The Packers have drawstring closures on the main bags covered by cap-tops, which I also use for extra capacity to store items I might need in a hurry without having to dig through the main bags -- rain clothing for example, or a medium-weight fleece jacket, each in a stuff sack so it won't migrate out from under the lid.
When I need extra water capacity, I have found I can wedge a 1l bottle under the cap-top straps. I did this during heat waves on two transits of Serbia and boosted my water capacity from 4.5l (in bottles on the bike) to 8.5l, a day's supply in such hot weather.
The Packer bags are waterproof in use so long as they remain upright and are not fully submerged. If the bike is laid down in a puddle or the bags fall over outside in the night and it rains heavily, the contents can get wet. In normal use, I've never had a leak.
Best,
Dan.
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Yes it will be a good option to have extra room..
i've seen the "Sportpacker" height is 40 cm (17.74 inches) and the "Roller" is 30 cm (11.81).
About the Thorn front rack, is it enought big to receive the Sportpacker panniers ?
As well, Dan if you have a moment to send me a photo to show me your bike with this panniers ..
Thanks !
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Okay, Julien...I'll reply off-Forum.
All the best,
Dan.
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Thinking a photo might be helpful for others, here's one showing my Nomad with Ortlieb SportPacker front panniers, BikePacker rear panniers, and Ultimate V Large handlebar bag all loaded and ready or an extended journey...
Best,
Dan.
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Dan, do you really need FIVE giant sized water bottles?
I like my front and back rollers. I think the rollers are a bit better if you have a partial load, you can roll the top a few more times to consume that excess volume. That said, I never seem to have partial loads, I frequently can only get two instead of all three folds to close them up.
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Are they for the patented travelling shower ?
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Dan, do you really need FIVE giant sized water bottles?
In a word..."yes".
They provide 6.5l capacity on the bike and for desert travel, I add *two* 10l MSR Dromedary bladders for a total capacity of 26.5l. Much of the water where I travel in the Great Basin is alkali and undrinkable, so I pack water in with me. At ~1kg/liter + container, this means a bit more than 26.5kg/58.4lbs in water alone...showing why I sometimes really need the Nomad's greater cargo capacity.
I use pH strips to pre-test any water I do find to see if it is even worth purifying it. I am most likely to get water from stock tanks, cattle troughs, and seep-pools, but it is often contaminated by cattle urine and feces so I zap it with my SteriPen, chemical tabs (iodine or chlorine), or boil it. Usually, the SteriPen wins because it is quickest, purifying 1l in just 90 seconds. You can see water is a problem noted on the visitor board for Nevada's Black Rock Desert, which I have crossed a number of times in Spring, Fall, and high Summer.
When it is hot I consume about 8-8.5l/day, as I did on both my transits of Serbia during heat waves. It was incredibly warm with no real shade or cover throughout the day. It was 114F°/45°C by 10:30am and very humid. It can be that warm and hotter in the desert, but with very low humidity.
If I have a "dry" camp (one without access to a stream or other water I can purify), I also need water to reconstitute my food for meals. Between supper and breakfast, this can easily total 9l/day combined for fluid intake and eating.
This means 26.5l provides just shy of three days' water for my needs, not a lot of margin if I get hurt or incapacitated while traveling alone in remote backcountry.
Are they for the patented travelling shower ?
No...I have a shower attachment for the MSR Dromedary bags! :)
All the best,
Dan.
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OK. One of my geology profs had been in death valley. He had said that each person carried a 2.5 gallon water jug strapped to a frame pack frame each day. And that was for day time use only while out doing field geology, that did not include where they stayed at night.
That is why I try to do all of my touring where the temperature will be between about 32 (F)/ 0 (C) on the low end, maybe 80s (F) / 30 (C) for the highest daily highs.
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My problems would (not) be solved with more of this.... ;)
Best,
Dan.
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Might I suggest this as a complimentary dish to your tinned one. Usually referred to as Makan angin!
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Eating wind...chasing breezes,...yes! The best kind of travel can be on wheels. :)
All the best,
Dan.
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Your black Nomad is wonderful and i'm sure Dan, it looks like you ! (even if i know you just a litlle bit)
Mine is different, almost finished and ready to go, also i think it looks like me :) you'll see later with photos to come
About my front bag, finally i've found the "Roller plus" in my favorite color, it was on good opportunity to find this model in a web shop at a good price.
I tried to find the "Sport Packer plus" but no result. I have ordered once but they were not like on the photo arrived at home (new model 2016) , so i have returned.
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Your black Nomad is wonderful and i'm sure Dan, it looks like you ! (even if i know you just a litlle bit)...Mine is different, almost finished and ready to go, also i think it looks like me
;D You're absolutely right, Julien!
It is amazing how all our Thorns start with the same basic frame for each model, yet end up looking so very different as we personalize them to our wants, needs, and desires. They really do reflect ourselves. :) Vive la différence!
I'm eagerly looking forward to photos of your own yellow Nomad in the gallery, and hearing about your travel plans.
I'm sorry your initial efforts to find front panniers were not successful, but everything came out right in the end and you now have just what you wanted -- wonderful!
Take care, and enjoy the process.
All the best,
Dan.
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Thinking a photo might be helpful for others, here's one showing my Nomad with Ortlieb SportPacker front panniers, BikePacker rear panniers, and Ultimate V Large handlebar bag all loaded and ready or an extended journey...
Best,
Dan.
(http://i97.servimg.com/u/f97/19/07/93/69/th/dannea10.jpg) (http://www.servimg.com/view/19079369/100)
Hi Dan,
Is it a pair of SKS P55 or P65 installed on your Nomad ? (i remember you have Dureme tires in 2".. )
Are you satisfied both fenders and tires size ?
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Hi Julien!
Yes, I am using 26x2.0in Schwalbe Dureme tires on my Nomad, equipped by Thorn with SKS P55 fenders (mudguards).
I've been very happy with the combination, enough to purchase a second pair of these mudguards so I could fit a rear fender to the front, allowing greater linear coverage and splash protection for me, the bike, and my panniers. I also purchased another pair of these mudguards to replace the rear one, which was fractured by my Extrawheel trailer hitting the lower stay mounting bolts when crossing from a logging road into a ditch and out again. I have not yet fitted it, but will this winter.
To aid you in your decision, I just went to the garage and measured everything.
The fenders are extruded, so the width varies slightly over their length. All of mine (front, rear, spares) measure 56.5-58.5mm wide depending on manufacturing tolerance and how they are fitted. They swell slightly wider where the stay brackets are riveted on. My tires' actual width varies slightly according to the pressure, from 47.5mm to 49.87mm; currently, they measure right at 48mm. This leaves the fender overhanging the tire by as much as 5mm on each side. The fenders are mounted to allow plenty of clearance over the tire, so this combination provides good coverage for the majority of my use.
On my 2014 European double-crossing, Forum member AndyBG kindly loaned me his Raven Tour. It was equipped with the SKS' P65 mudguards. These also worked well with 2.0in Schwalbe Marathon Deluxe tires, but covered the tires a bit more than needed in most cases, causing a bit more wind drag than I might have wished, but a loaded tourer with panniers is not so aerodynamic anyway -- it probably made no real difference to my speed. In heavy mud, the extra width was welcome and no detriment. Still, the wheels locked-up at times against the fenders when traversing rain-soaked dirt roads and the bike had to be rocked back and forth a bit to clear them. This would likely have happened with any tire-fender combination, given the conditions and sticky mud. I think it just took slightly longer to happen with the P65s. To give perspective, I myself sank to my shoe-tops in the mud when I got off to clear the tires.
However, there is another factor to consider: The P55s have a continuous, even width on the rear fender (except for manufacturing tolerances caused by the extrusion process and bending to fit). The P65s fitted to AndyBG's bike at the time had an opening cut out of the right side to allow chain clearance when fitted to a bike with derailleur drivetrain. This opening had the unfortunate effect of dumping mud and debris on the right chainstay and sometimes, the chain. Just something to keep in mind if you go with wider and wish to have full-width coverage -- check to see if the fender is cut away in this place. It can matter sometimes when fitted to a Rohloff-equipped bike where the chain does not need to move laterally when you shift, as with a derailleur drivetrain.
I'm working on a project bike now -- a used, lightweight MTB with derailleur drivetrain converted to a drop-handlebar "randonneur" intended for use at high speeds on gravel logging roads and intended to carry minimal loads. For it, I bought (also used, this is meant to be an inexpensive project) full-coverage Planet Bike Cascadia fenders. They measure 60mm and are intended to cover tires that will measure 50mm when inflated to my needs (Innova Swiftor, a kind of superwide near-slick). Again, the coverage will be about 5mm on each side of the tire. These fenders have no cutout in the sides, so I might have to make one to clear the derailleur chain once they are fitted. Unlike the SKS fenders, which are cellulose-plastic over an aluminum foil core and are a sort of brownish color in direct sunlight, the PlanetBike Cascadias are opaque black polycarbonate. So far, they have been as durable as the SKS' when used on my road bikes, but I am unsure how they will hold up on this project bike. Time will tell.
Much of a fender's effectiveness depends on the vertical clearance between it and the tire. Too close and you risk jamming the fender with debris like wet leaves. Too much, and some water can escape. I have my Nomad fenders set generously high and a little added clearance at the bottom-rear of each to better catch thrown water.
This is probably more information than you needed, but hopefully helpful if you are looking at all options.
Yes, I am pleased with the combination of P55 SKS fenders used with 2in Schwalbe Dureme tires on my Nomad. :)
All the best,
Dan.
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Now thats what i call a touring bike Dan. regards dc.
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I have the same setup as Dan on my "touring" Raven Tour - SKS P55, extended front mudguard, 2.0 tyres.
I currently have Supremes rather than Duremes (I moved the latter to my old converted mountain bike, where they get more use on tracks and paths).
On my "utility" Raven Tour I fitted the wider SKS P65 mudguards, because I sometimes fit studded tyres on that bike. I reckon that more clearance is prudent with studs . It also gives me the option of fitting slightly wider tyres than the 2.0 size I currently use if I ever want too, but not as wide as on a Nomad frame. Not sure what the maximum reasonable size is for a Raven Tour with mudguards.
The SKS P65 mudguards have the unneccessary cut-out next to the RH chainstay. But this doesn't matter much for me as I have Chaingliders on my 2 Raven Tour bikes.
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Ok thanks very much
So, i think my P55 will stay on my bike. I 'm just planning to change later my dureme tires to the Mondials in the same size.
;)
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I have the same setup as Dan on my "touring" Raven Tour - SKS P55, extended front mudguard, 2.0 tyres.
I currently have Supremes rather than Duremes (I moved the latter to my old converted mountain bike, where they get more use on tracks and paths).
On my "utility" Raven Tour I fitted the wider SKS P65 mudguards, because I sometimes fit studded tyres on that bike. I reckon that more clearance is prudent with studs . It also gives me the option of fitting slightly wider tyres than the 2.0 size I currently use if I ever want too, but not as wide as on a Nomad frame. Not sure what the maximum reasonable size is for a Raven Tour with mudguards.
The SKS P65 mudguards have the unneccessary cut-out next to the RH chainstay. But this doesn't matter much for me as I have Chaingliders on my 2 Raven Tour bikes.
a bit as on the photo ..
(http://i97.servimg.com/u/f97/19/07/93/69/th/tires-10.jpg) (http://www.servimg.com/view/19079369/108)
More seriously, when you change your 2"tires for a bit wider, the height might change too ? do you know how many millimeter ? ( i didn't seen on the Schwable website)
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More seriously, when you change your 2"tires for a bit wider, the height might change too ? do you know how many millimeter ? ( i didn't seen on the Schwable website)
Height will change. Many years ago I saved a file with generic tire circumferences on my hard drive, I have no clue where the web site was that I got the data from. I usually used these numbers for my bicycle computer until i could measure a specific model tire for more accurate data for my bike computer. These would be generic at best. I pasted part of that file below for 26 inch tires.
26" 25-559 1940 mm
35-559 1980 mm
40-559 2000 mm
47-559 2020 mm
50-559 2040 mm
54-559 2080 mm
57-559 2100 mm
60-559 2150 mm
To get the radius you take circumference, divide by pi (which is 3.14159) and then divide by 2 to get radius. The radius will be the distance from the center of the axle to the tire tread.
So, radius of 50mm tire would be 2080/3.14159/2 = 331.0 mm.
But a 57 mm tire would be 2100/3.14159/2 = 334.2 mm, which is 3.2 mm bigger radius than the 50mm tire.
The table I pasted above, the numbers are clearly rounded off to the nearest 10 mm, so accuracy of the calculations could be in doubt. If you measured the actual tire circumferences for the tires that you are talking about, you could be more accurate.
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More seriously, when you change your 2"tires for a bit wider, the height might change too ? do you know how many millimeter ? ( i didn't seen on the Schwable website)
Height will change. Many years ago I saved a file with generic tire circumferences on my hard drive, I have no clue where the web site was that I got the data from. I usually used these numbers for my bicycle computer until i could measure a specific model tire for more accurate data for my bike computer. These would be generic at best. I pasted part of that file below for 26 inch tires.
26" 25-559 1940 mm
35-559 1980 mm
40-559 2000 mm
47-559 2020 mm
50-559 2040 mm
54-559 2080 mm
57-559 2100 mm
60-559 2150 mm
To get the radius you take circumference, divide by pi (which is 3.14159) and then divide by 2 to get radius. The radius will be the distance from the center of the axle to the tire tread.
So, radius of 50mm tire would be 2080/3.14159/2 = 331.0 mm.
But a 57 mm tire would be 2100/3.14159/2 = 334.2 mm, which is 3.2 mm bigger radius than the 50mm tire.
The table I pasted above, the numbers are clearly rounded off to the nearest 10 mm, so accuracy of the calculations could be in doubt. If you measured the actual tire circumferences for the tires that you are talking about, you could be more accurate.
You mean "2040" !?
So, by my calculation the height difference between a 2" (50mm) tire and one of 2.15 (54mm) is 6.4 mm
(2040:3.14159):2=324.6
(2080:3.14159):2=331
331-324.6=6.4
And 9.6 mm between a 2.25 (57mm) tire and one of 2"
Thanks Mickeg ! i think it's a difference to be considered ..
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a bit as on the photo ..
(http://i97.servimg.com/u/f97/19/07/93/69/th/tires-10.jpg) (http://www.servimg.com/view/19079369/108)
Not so extreme as those, mine are Nokian Hakkapeliitta W240 as in the photo.
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More seriously, when you change your 2"tires for a bit wider, the height might change too ? do you know how many millimeter ? ( i didn't seen on the Schwable website)
As bicycle tyres don't usually exactly match their specified dimensions it is a bit difficult to predict height and width changes accurately.
When I fitted 42x584 Supremes on my wife's bike I measured them to be about 37mm wide and 35 mm high, so I gambled on the 50x584 Supremes being a bit undersized as well and bought a pair to try on my old 650B frame. They fit OK with just enough mudguard clearance.
My 26" studded tyres are stamped 1.95", but are slightly wider and taller than Schwalbe Supremes, which are supposed to be 2.0"