Thorn Cycles Forum

Technical => Luggage => Topic started by: Andre Jute on April 12, 2016, 09:33:50 pm

Title: T-bar to mount handlebar bag OR large computer, both with upturned U mount
Post by: Andre Jute on April 12, 2016, 09:33:50 pm
My Altura handlebar bag and my pedelec's control readout both have upside-down U-mounts intended to fit on the handlebar with one leg either side of the knuckle where the stem clamps to the handlebar. One won't fit inside the other, or across the other.

Help! What else do you know that will mount on my handlebar and provide mounting space for either of these necessary items?
Title: Re: T-bar to mount handlebar bag OR large computer, both with upturned U mount
Post by: Danneaux on April 12, 2016, 10:04:24 pm
Andre,

Since the two occupy the same real estate at present, you'll need to provide a second tier for attachment. The most likely alternative would be a Thorn Accessory T-bar (available in two lengths) to mount the HB bag lower, keeping the default handlebar location for the pedelec controls.

I...sense you have already considered this, and something is keeping you from it. Do you lack the vertical space below the handlebars and above the headlight to place a Thorn Accessory T-bar in this location? Does you n'Lock's swing interfere with stacked brackets?

I used a Thorn Accessory T-bar *below* my handlebars to mount my HB bag, and another *above* to mount my Rohloff shifter, inclinometer, and GPS, but I have a goodly amount of uncut steerer to play with that allows this, and no locking stem.

Best,

Dan.
Title: Re: T-bar to mount handlebar bag OR large computer, both with upturned U mount
Post by: Bill C on April 12, 2016, 11:12:46 pm
i've used a pair of these for extra bar room on the xtc and sherpa, pretty sturdy shifters mounted on them and no problems on the alloy or carbon one

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51%2BNk505d6L.jpg)

(http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm17/parramethtrol/sherpa2001_zps8eg2ip5z.jpg)

tall stack stem and how many spacers  ;)

(http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm17/parramethtrol/sherpa%2002_zpsmwxxgqna.jpg)

though the nitto bar mount is far sexier

btw if you go the acor way like the one  i posted, the carbon ones are better as they are more adjustable, the clamp can fit any part of the carbon bar so you can have both bars inboard of the mount
 the alloy ones you can't alter them so are like the picture of the sherpa with a large gap
Title: Re: T-bar to mount handlebar bag OR large computer, both with upturned U mount
Post by: David Simpson on April 13, 2016, 12:18:02 am
I've done something similar to what Bill did, except that I cut a length from an old handlebar and used a single bar between the two  mounts. That allows me to mount items between the mounts, and also makes the bar a bit sturdier.

- DaveS
Title: Re: T-bar to mount handlebar bag OR large computer, both with upturned U mount
Post by: Bill C on April 13, 2016, 12:34:45 am
Hi Dave

the nitto bar mount that i mentioned up post as being sexier is one bar and two clamps, I'd of preferred one myself but at the time i couldn't get one, still would like one but the acor is doing fine ,
and the Nitto is pricey, maybe for my birthday  ;)

(http://www.sjscycles.co.uk/images/products/medium/36700.jpg)

nitto http://www.sjscycles.co.uk/nitto-lamp-holder-2-260mm-prod36700/
Title: Re: T-bar to mount handlebar bag OR large computer, both with upturned U mount
Post by: mickeg on April 13, 2016, 12:43:09 am
I really do not understand what the problem is, a photo of why the mounts do not work the way you want them to would have helped a lot.

I use the Thorn T bar on my Nomad.

On some other bikes, I use a second stem and either a short piece of handlebar or a short piece of PVC pipe for handlebar mount.

Title: Re: T-bar to mount handlebar bag OR large computer, both with upturned U mount
Post by: Bill C on April 13, 2016, 01:29:28 am
hi mickeg
I really do not understand what the problem is

Andre seems pretty specific to me

My Altura handlebar bag and my pedelec's control readout both have upside-down U-mounts intended to fit on the handlebar with one leg either side of the knuckle where the stem clamps to the handlebar. One won't fit inside the other, or across the other.

his mounts interfere with each other

What else do you know that will mount on my handlebar and provide mounting space for either of these necessary items?

he wants something to mount on the handlebar to get around the brackets clashing

Title: Re: T-bar to mount handlebar bag OR large computer, both with upturned U mount
Post by: Andre Jute on April 13, 2016, 04:41:59 am
Bill's right. I want something to fit on the handlebar, and the rest of you are right too, whatever that fitting is must then provide a horizontal bar perpendicular to the centreline of the bike to mount another unit on, as in the examples on Bill and Dave's bikes. To answer Dan, you're right too: for a variety of reasons I don't want to disassemble the stem/n'lock/ahead-to-quill conversion, two of the most important being that I wouldn't be surprised if the quilt is stuck in there, and that my health is such that I can't bend over the bike for more than ten minutes at a time -- I ride better than I work on the bike! That assembly is solid as a rock, but I nearly gave myself a stroke getting it done to that standard. Also, now that I think of it, the stopper/locking assembly of the ahead gubbins with a ridged seatpost clamp (there's correspondence elsewhere on the forum about this if anyone doesn't grasp what I did) is relatively critical within a millimetre or two, and if any extension I fit in the place of a steering height spacer isn't exactly the same height as the spacer I take out, my bike could be at a standstill until I source the right size of adjusting spacer and wait for it to be delivered to darkest West Cork, just when the weather has turned (great ride to today, even if still in long underwear). That's not all: my bike's gear cables and brake hydraulic tubing are at maximum stretch and, while I have spares on hand because I intend recabling/retubing the whole thing and raising the handlebars another 5mm next winter, I don't want to be forced to do it now, because I just do not know how long it will take my fave bike off the road if working stints are only ten minutes long. (Don't even suggest I let the LBS do it. I like my life too much!)

Those are nice, tidy jobs, Bill and Dave. You don't say where you found the doublesided clamps, Dave. If I have to buy the one-sided Acor Bill uses, I think it likely that I will fit the barbag, as the heavier item, directly to the handlebars, and the pedelec computer to the Acor L-bar.

Thanks for helping out, gentlemen.
Title: Re: T-bar to mount handlebar bag OR large computer, both with upturned U mount
Post by: Bill C on April 13, 2016, 06:11:40 am
DIY?
if you have some straight bars to cut down then this is the cheapest way I've seen to get some clamps

use the code and get a further 50% off , makes them a fiver plus post

(http://d2plslj6xljffa.cloudfront.net/imgs/products/oo/400_constH/HB3TTIRA_P1.jpg)
http://www.planetx.co.uk/i/q/HB3TTIRA/3ttt-tiramisu-bar-extensions (http://www.planetx.co.uk/i/q/HB3TTIRA/3ttt-tiramisu-bar-extensions)
Title: Re: T-bar to mount handlebar bag OR large computer, both with upturned U mount
Post by: David Simpson on April 13, 2016, 06:18:09 am
You don't say where you found the doublesided clamps, Dave.

I'm embarrassed to say that it is nothing special. I just bought two of the same Acor mounts that Bill has, then threw away the stub bars that came with them. The single bar that I use is from my old aluminum handlebar (a straight bar, similar to the Thorn Flat Track bar that I now have). I cut a long enough piece from one end of the bar. It cuts nicely on a table saw, provided that you don't let the aluminum "saw dust" accumulate in the teeth of the saw.

- DaveS
Title: Re: T-bar to mount handlebar bag OR large computer, both with upturned U mount
Post by: Bill C on April 13, 2016, 06:48:41 am

 I just bought two of the same Acor mounts that Bill has, then threw away the stub bars that came with them
- DaveS

did you buy the alloy ones? as mine aren't just straight tube, there's a ridge on the bar for the clamp,
the carbon ones are parallel
Title: Re: T-bar to mount handlebar bag OR large computer, both with upturned U mount
Post by: David Simpson on April 13, 2016, 05:16:19 pm
did you buy the alloy ones? as mine aren't just straight tube, there's a ridge on the bar for the clamp,
the carbon ones are parallel

Bill, are you talking about the mounts or the bar? The mounts are alloy, and so is the bar.

About the ridge on the bar, are you talking about the handlebar that I cut down? I used the end of the bar, where the bar is completely straight without any ridge or bulge. The bar that I used was this one:
http://www.mec.ca/product/5021-121/mec-620mm-alloy-mountain-riser-bar-6-degree (http://www.mec.ca/product/5021-121/mec-620mm-alloy-mountain-riser-bar-6-degree)
It is similar to the Thorn Flat Track bar that I now have, except that the Thorn bar is more comfortable because it has a 10-degree sweepback. The MEC bar has on a 6-degree sweepback. The difference is noticeable.

- DaveS
Title: Re: T-bar to mount handlebar bag OR large computer, both with upturned U mount
Post by: Andre Jute on April 13, 2016, 05:18:18 pm
You don't say where you found the doublesided clamps, Dave.

I'm embarrassed to say that it is nothing special.

Don't be. Cycling was once the workingman's sport par excellence. Now that we ride bikes on which single components often cost more than a working man could have earned in several weeks, the least we can do is to discover something universal and make it serve a double purpose.
Title: Re: T-bar to mount handlebar bag OR large computer, both with upturned U mount
Post by: Bill C on April 13, 2016, 05:40:26 pm
hi Andre
bit of sniffing around ebay.uk and i found these, bargain price at just under a tenner with free post,
should be more than strong  enough for an electronics display
bar clamp 31.8mm so might need a shim for your use

(http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/MTAwMFgxMDAw/z/pXQAAOSwZ8ZW5nYV/$_57.JPG)

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/GUB-Double-Handlebar-Extension-Mount-Extender-Holder-Bike-Light-Speedometer-C5R5-/252319998253?var=&hash=item3abf71a12d:m:mpO7BJnVcaGFiaZMl8LdPjg (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/GUB-Double-Handlebar-Extension-Mount-Extender-Holder-Bike-Light-Speedometer-C5R5-/252319998253?var=&hash=item3abf71a12d:m:mpO7BJnVcaGFiaZMl8LdPjg)
Title: Re: T-bar to mount handlebar bag OR large computer, both with upturned U mount
Post by: Bill C on April 13, 2016, 05:50:15 pm
did you buy the alloy ones? as mine aren't just straight tube, there's a ridge on the bar for the clamp,
the carbon ones are parallel

Bill, are you talking about the mounts or the bar? The mounts are alloy, and so is the bar.

About the ridge on the bar, are you talking about the handlebar that I cut down? I used the end of the bar, where the bar is completely straight without any ridge or bulge.

- DaveS

hi Dave might be a moot point now i have seen the gub ones at a tenner

i meant are the stub bars alloy and if they are alloy are they a bit of straight tube, like a handlebar grip area, as mine aren't they have a ridge like a built in shim so they fit the clamp, that's why i couldn't do what you have done with a cut down handlebar
i bought the alloy barred clamp set roughly 5/6 years ago.

the set i later bought with carbon stubs  don't have the shim bit they are just straight pipe, i could use a bit of handlebar in these, but i put them on the xtc and only need my shifters mounting on it so never bothered
Title: Re: T-bar to mount handlebar bag OR large computer, both with upturned U mount
Post by: energyman on April 13, 2016, 06:01:29 pm
It still amazes me how an item costing about £10 can be shipped from China for no charge and still be (looks like) good quality kit.
That's progress !!!! :)
Title: Re: T-bar to mount handlebar bag OR large computer, both with upturned U mount
Post by: Andre Jute on April 13, 2016, 06:33:01 pm
Gentlemen: On envious consideration of aesthetically pleasing and clearly ergonomically sound handlebar layout photographs that Bill, Dave and George have published (what do we say, Jags, we say, Class!), I've decided it would be silly to sprout a T-bar from my bike's handlebars, that the smart, tidy thing to do will be to integrate the two mounts. Examination of the Agu bike mount (not Altura as I first reported, sorry) shows that it would be a simple matter to attach a mounting for the pedelec computer on the handlebar bag-mounting's two screws for tightening the clamps to the handlebar. This piggyback mounting could be manufactured from thin aluminium (American aluminum) plate and would require only two further holes to take the computer without its detachable mount (the separate U-shape mounting being the component causing the problem). The flat plate could be bent for either stiffness or clearance if necessary, though clearance won't be a problem; I might bend it anyway for viewing angle. I in fact have a small sheet of 1.2mm ali on my desk permanently, because it is the sort of bracket often required in my other hobby, high voltage thermionic tube audio amplifiers; in case more stiffness is required I have 1/4in ali sheet too, and mild steel strap about half an inch wide. (I also use the ali for stiffening the leather jackets I make for my homemade sketchbooks.)

Additional considerations:
-- I've had a good look at a Minoura Spacebar I have already. This is a piece of sh1t whose designer never owned a bike and who was additionally asleep on the job: it tightens on the handbar by a thin user-bent strap and no-one I know with one ever managed to mount it securely. But the significant thing about it today is that mine is dented and the crossbar skewed on its mount. Whatever was mounted on it -- my iPhone which not only valuable in itself but which I don't want to lose because the newer ones are plastic rather than aluminium, and grotesquely larger -- could have been trashed when the T-bar was dented if it was firmly attached... (Actually my iPhone is so toughly encased that I sometimes throw it against the wall to demonstrate that the D30 in its leather case works as well for a phone as for the battle tanks for which it was first invented.) What trashed the Spacebar itself was a fall I took when on a very steep downhill at over 50kph the front tyre suddenly went flat and the front wheel folded in under me, throwing me over the bars. (It was such a spectacular accident that all three the motorists behind me stopped and came running. Not a mark on me except for mild bruising... Go figure.)

-- The pedelec computer in itself isn't valuable (about 65 dollars in China, call it a hundred euro landed) but if it is trashed my bike could be off the road for weeks while it arrives; my bike is a very valuable health and social resource to me. So the extra protection that the handlebar bag will provide by rising about the computer (easily arrange as the bag mount swivels vertically at two points) is worth having. (This has also thrown up the consideration that it might be smart to have a spare pedelec computer because it is already prewired and plugging it in and tiewrapping the wires is a ten munute job.)

-- Aesthetics are important to me as an artist, quite apart from the competitive aspect, or even just not embarrassing my friends on the forum or my local pedal pals.

-- There is no cycling-functional need for the handlebar bag; my longest ride these days is less than 25miles, round trip; it is rare for me to be as much as two hours from home, so there is no need for snacks or whatever tourers carry in their handlebar bag. The sequence for considering fitting the handlebar bag is that I bought a bigger motor, then a bigger battery which wouldn't fit on the downtube, then I fitted an old rack top bag into which the battery fits, then the handlebar bag I was using ripped and everything in it went into the side pockets of the racktop bag -- everything that is but the surplus wiring length of the pedelec control system. So the handlebar bag is required only to hide the surplus wires. No, I can't shorten the wires. I solder really well, but those wires are pretty fine and the main trunk is a complicated multicore. I don't fancy finding an induced current send false instructions in it, or sorting even a simple mistake. The surplus wires aren't even glaringly obvious, being hidden under the dry bag for my iPhone, which is also my heart rate monitor, so always on the bike when I'm there.

So, for the time being, I shall first do without the handlebar bag to see if I miss it, and if I do, I shall make a piggyback mount for the pedelec computer to sit on top of the handlebar mount.

***

WHAT ABOUT THE WIRES THAT STILL NEED HIDING? WHERE DO THEY GO WITHOUT A HANDLEBAR BAG?

Simple. I'll just cut a cole in the head tube and stuff them in there. (Just testing if you're paying attention!)

It is actually simple. I'll cut a short piece of polytube, string the wires back and forth through there, and tie up the piece of polytube to the handlebar out of sight under the pedelec computer or the dry bag for the iPhone/heart rate monitor. Alternatively, I have some spiral ducting that I used to tidy the wiring on my Trek Smover (full-auto Di2); it's grey to suit the silver and blue Trek but I can paint it black to suit the other peripherals on my Kranich.

I'll post a photo when it is done, though it may take while to arrive there.

***

BTW, anyone looking into handlebar brackets/T-bars, beware that you know what you're buying. Many of the brackets/T-bars have one end handlebar size and the other 22mm, which is not good if you want to mount one end to the handlebars and to the other end another handlebar-sized mount, as in the case of my handlebar bag mounting.

***

Thanks you once more for your help, gentlemen. This sort of problem is solved so much faster with some brains on the job.
Title: Re: T-bar to mount handlebar bag OR large computer, both with upturned U mount
Post by: Andre Jute on April 13, 2016, 06:37:36 pm
Is that leather bar tape colouring with use, Bill? It's very attractive.
Title: Re: T-bar to mount handlebar bag OR large computer, both with upturned U mount
Post by: Bill C on April 13, 2016, 06:59:46 pm
Is that leather bar tape colouring with use, Bill? It's very attractive.

Hi Andre
it's naturally worn brooks tape, i fitted it when i first built the Sherpa, it's starting to get a bit tatty around the edges and needs rewrapping
but over 6 years old and it's still doing it's job, I gave up driving when i bought the Sherpa, so the bike was for years my only means of transport, it's had a lot of use, i think Thorn said it was a bike for life, cant argue with that,
the frame when clean still looks new
the saddle looks the same as the tape, quick polish with neutral shoe wax and they look a squillion dollars

edited
because of my spelling  :-[
Title: Re: T-bar to mount handlebar bag OR large computer, both with upturned U mount
Post by: Andre Jute on April 13, 2016, 07:07:00 pm
Good leather lasts forever, looks smart a long time, and then looks well-loved.
Title: Re: T-bar to mount handlebar bag OR large computer, both with upturned U mount
Post by: Danneaux on April 15, 2016, 05:22:28 am
Quote
BTW, anyone looking into handlebar brackets/T-bars, beware that you know what you're buying. Many of the brackets/T-bars have one end handlebar size and the other 22mm...
Just a note for future readers: The Thorn Accessory T-bar is now available in cross-bar diameters of either 22.2mm or 25.4.

Best of luck wished your way, Andre,

Dan.
Title: Re: T-bar to mount handlebar bag OR large computer, both with upturned U mount
Post by: Andre Jute on April 15, 2016, 05:42:02 am
Thanks, Dan.               
Title: Re: T-bar to mount handlebar bag OR large computer, both with upturned U mount
Post by: IanW on April 15, 2016, 11:10:49 am
Hi Andre,

I don't know if your Altura handlebar bag uses a Klickfix type fitting.
But if it does I hope you know that Rixen-Kaul do an ebike variant of the Klicfix handlebar mount that has wider spaced mounting clamps to fit outside/around an ebike control that clamps to the handlebar on either side of the stem.

http://www.klickfix.com/index.php?lang=en (http://www.klickfix.com/index.php?lang=en)
then find Handlebar Adapter E
(combinable with e-bike displays, eg Bosch) (0211EB)
Title: Re: T-bar to mount handlebar bag OR large computer, both with upturned U mount
Post by: Andre Jute on April 15, 2016, 05:16:53 pm
Brilliant idea, Ian. The extra "inter width" adapters are found here: http://www.klickfix.com/index.php?lang=en. They're still too narrow at 78mm inside measurement because I need over 90mm. I'm not sure what sort of a mounting my Agu bag uses, but the mounting is always the easiest thing to change on a well-loved bag.

Or an excuse to buy entirely new luggage...

Yesterday before I decided to do without the handlebar bag for a while because I need to shed weight on my bike anyway, I did consider mounting the pedelec computer off-centre next to the speed computer (which I still need because it keeps track of Rohloff services and has the time which, irritatingly, the pedelec computer doesn't offer) but that would make the pedelec computer even more vulnerable than centrally in the dip of the North Road bars I use.

Thanks for the link, which I've saved; lots of adaptors on that page.